View Full Version : Worst 5.56/.223 ammo ever: Your personal experience?
Greek "Olympia". It looked awesome in the box. SS109 green tip bullet, primers staked and sealed, clean cases. I saw some at a gun show quite a while back. I was tempted to buy a whole case but a little voice told me, no, just try a 50 round box.
Yikes! I fired about 25 rounds out of my Mini-14--this stuff was short stroking a Mini-14. Accuracy was pie-plate groups at 100 yards (before you laugh, my Mini does better than that with decent ammo). Couple of primers were coming out of the primer pockets. It seemed underpowered and very inconsistent. I didn't bother to shoot it in the AR or to chrono it. The rest of the box went into the trash.
Jay Cunningham
12-30-11, 19:35
Ha ha Olympia was/is absolute shit. The "my AR eats everything" crowd should chew on a case of that garbage.
I never really shot bad ammo. It's just not acceptable.
I guess I've seen a few blown primers with UMC remmington ammo.
Well so far I only these:
Ultramax Reman .223 FMJ 55gr 223r2 made in the USA
hotshot .223 fmj 55 gr am124 maded in ro korea
PMC Bronze 55gr fmj-bt 223a made in RO Korea I mainly buy and use these for target practice.
American Eagle 63gr SP XMAE223sp made in the usa
Fiocchi Extrema Rifle hunting 223 remington 50 gr v-max 223hva made in the usa only have 18 of these left these are what I hunt blacktail with.
Remington UMC 223 remington 55 gr mc L223r3 made in usa
Hotshot 5.56x45 (ss109) 62 gr am1429 made in romania metal target ammo
american eagle 5.56x45 64 gr Tactical tracer xm856 made in usa
So far the only problem ammo I have is the hot shot crap made in romania i have had a few blown primers 2 out of 250 rounds so far still got 600 more to go. but they hit the gong and make noise so its ok ammo in my opinion. I prefer pmc bronze or american eagle I normally look for deal on both of those for when I can get 20 for less then 8 bucks.
The_War_Wagon
12-30-11, 20:13
Tula, Wolf, Barnaul (Brown Bear). There's your Gold, Silver, & Bronze Medalists of Craptacular 5.56 ammo. :bad:
saddlerocker
12-30-11, 20:22
I also have yet to have "bad ammo"
Granted I have not shot any Tula, ultramax, or that olympia, or hotshot, because it just seemed shady to me.
I have been very impressed with factory ammo in my short time in the firearms world. (The only 2 that made me nervous were Brown bear, which has not given me 1 issue yet through 500/rds, and Aguila 9mm from AIM when it came around this summer due to no real reviews, but 1,000/rds were flawless)
My dads Bersa 380 choked on some Remington UMC, but I would have no issues running it in my AR or M&P9
Fortunately I haven't come across any shit ammo as of yet. For the majority of my shooting, I use IMI M193, or PMC X-TAC 62gr green tip.
If I'm not using the above ammo, I'm shooting my reloads (55gr Hornady FMJ over 24.5gr Ramshot TAC). I also occasionally load up 69gr and 77gr loads for longer range work (200 yds +), but that isn't often.
I've been tempted to experiment with the steel case stuff, just to see if it will run reliably in my ARs, but I can't bring myself to do it, as I don't really have a *need* to use it (financially or practicality/availability-wise).
Evil Colt 6920
12-30-11, 21:35
FREE AMMO come and get it, no shipping, pick up only, few hundred rounds of TULA 5.56
GeorgiaBoy
12-30-11, 22:32
Wolf. Otherwise I really don't have problems with UMC, PMC, or Federal.
I had some of that Greek ammo back during the Clinton ban days, it was loaded super hot, blowing primers every other round... I found this out when the bolt wouldn't close fully, opened the action and a 1/2 dozen primers fall out onto the bench!
Next worse ammo was some kind of Spanish surplus that turned out to be corrosive!!! That was a surprise.
As to Brown bear, I love the lot I'm using now, wish I had a ton of it.
As to Wolf...
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/476/tngallery1861114871.jpg
Had a primer in sideways once... left a mark on the boltface.
FREE AMMO come and get it, no shipping, pick up only, few hundred rounds of TULA 5.56
I'd take that ammo. Just shot another 200 rounds of Tula yesterday, no issues to date with over 2000 rounds downrange.
Reloaded HSM and BVAC has blown up several rifles in my first hand observation.
Robb Jensen
12-31-11, 12:20
Worst ever was Natec plastic cased ammo and some Norinco yellow box 55gr someone gave to me many moons ago.
USA Ammo. It works fine until your gun explodes. Google USA Ammo Kaboom.
The_War_Wagon
12-31-11, 12:28
Worst ever was Natec plastic cased ammo and some Norinco yellow box 55gr someone gave to me many moons ago.
Norinco?!?! :eek: At $.99/box o' 20 in the early '90's, that stuff ROCKED! It was a bit dirty (about like Privi is today), but I never had any problems with it.
Wish a I had a few thousand of those rounds I blew downrange then, BACK as practice ammo today. :( It reloaded well, too.
The worst experience I've had is with Silver State Armory's 5.56mm 70gr TSX load. Went through two boxes, about half of them were light primer strikes. SSA told me I should try replacing the hammer spring with one that was rated for at least 4.5 lbs. since they use harder primers. I thought a SCAR should be able to handle military primers, though...
It could be something with my rifle, but it eats other ammo fine. I went ahead and ordered a replacement spring, but haven't tried another box of the SSA ammo yet.
My vote goes to Herter's 223 from Cabela's
Haven't put a whole lot of different stuff through my AR, but my personal vote goes to Wolf, seen it lock into the chamber of a few ARs. As far as Brown Bear, I put about 400-500 rounds through mine when I first got it before I learned how to properly clean the thing, no hick ups, don't think I would try to test it again, but if my rifle didn't choke on that then I feel safe with it until I piece together my next rifle from BCM.
StrikerFired
12-31-11, 15:42
My "Olympia" story: My buddy and I were getting some zeroing some of our AR's and started at 25 meters. Some of the rounds actually keyholed through the targets. It's still in the ammo cans as our "end of days" ammo, just in case...
Team Chuck Norris
12-31-11, 18:38
Worst ammo: about four years ago I purchased a can of Radway 62 gr surplus from SportsmansGuide. Some was loaded on stripper clips while the rest was loose. Nearly a third of the rounds would pop the primer. The brass was particularly soft. An employee from Federal was at the range and examined some of the spent cases. He noticed that the ejector put a noticeable gouge into the headstamp - much more than would normally be expected. I ended up throwing it away.
PA PATRIOT
01-02-12, 17:20
I have to say a word for Wolf ammunition as I have fired numerous cases of the Wolf 55gr Copper H/P .223 and never had a stuck case or a badly seated primer. Accuracy was on par with reclassified XM193 and I continue to buy cases as deals present their selfs.
Tula=theworstmutha****ingshitcrapammoevermaderunawaynowplease!!!!!
I had a batch of a commercially remanufactured .223 load that consistently produced a 10% rate of case head separations. Beware of reman outfits that will assure you that their ammo uses only once-fired brass, while reminding you to bring your brass back in for credit.
I had a batch of a commercially remanufactured .223 load that consistently produced a 10% rate of case head separations. Beware of reman outfits that will assure you that their ammo uses only once-fired brass, while reminding you to bring your brass back in for credit.
Word!
I also figure that much of the "once fired" 5.56 ammo is coming from the Army, and has been run though SAWs. That is also an issue.
Tula=theworstmutha****ingshitcrapammoevermaderunawaynowplease!!!!!
I have about 2000 rounds of Tula through my Colts, never had an issue.
Seriously.
Word!
I also figure that much of the "once fired" 5.56 ammo is coming from the Army, and has been run though SAWs. That is also an issue.
What's wrong with SAWs? Do they chew the brass or something?
Tula=theworstmutha****ingshitcrapammoevermaderunawaynowplease!!!!!
+1 Tula is the worst garbage I have used.
BellyUpFish
01-03-12, 10:07
Haven't put a whole lot of different stuff through my AR, but my personal vote goes to Wolf, seen it lock into the chamber of a few ARs.
A chamber brush and or several hundred rounds will sort that out..
One of my AR's hated Wolf for 250-300 rounds or so.. Gobbles it up just fine now and is "minute of coke can" accurate at 100 yards.
RogerinTPA
01-03-12, 10:26
Personally, I think there are only a few crap ammo. The XM193 Federal series, notorious for popped primers. Georgia Arms Canned Heat for causing KaBooms, and a couple of other foriegn ammo which cased stuck cases due to type of powder or torn case rims due to weak brass. All are brassed case. The rest of folks declaring this or that ammo is crappy, is due to not having a well turned AR that can digest most ammo out there, reliably and lack the knowledge to get it there (the proper action spring, buffer weight combo, loose gas keys, user induced tinkering, and using the doughnut, with the black insert on the extractor, causing stuck cases). 2nd, is poor choice in the weapon selection process itself (incorrect chamber size).
It's an automatic default to blame the ammo, instead of the user/owner. Fallacy of False Cause is what most people fall into about there weapons due to internet/bubba hearsay, not having a good understanding of how the weapon works and lacking the discipline to research to find the real cause. Yes, the issues have developed in well made weapons (Colts, BCM, DD, etc..), but I stand by the first portion of this statement of not having the weapon well tuned to operate throughout a wide range of ammo.
I've shot over 40K rounds of eastern european steel cased ammo, mostly Wolf, reliably and in carbine courses. It worked just fine. A year or so ago, I noticed some malfunctions in Wolf that caused malfunctions in my ARs that normally cycled it reliable, causing me to question something in the manufacturing process. Which caused me to stick exclusively with Brown Bear/Barnaul, which I haven't had not one issue with. I've used it in personal practice and a couple of carbine courses, most recently in Pat Rogers COC this past Dec. I haven't tried Tula or the WPA brand, but have read that Barnaul has taken over the production of Wolf that is labeled WPA.
Also, bad Lots of ammo can be produced by any manufacturer. These are just my observations and what I've experienced over the years. I have several thousand rounds of high quality brass cased ammo, but find it idiocy to shoot for training when there is a cheaper alternative to get me to, or keep me up to my desired training level. As I always state, it's just training fodder, so don't get emotional about it.
Personally, I think there are only a few crap ammo. The XM193 Federal series, notorious for popped primers. Georgia Arms Canned Heat for causing KaBooms, and a couple of other foriegn ammo which cased stuck cases due to type of powder or torn case rims due to weak brass. All are brassed case. The rest of folks declaring this or that ammo is crappy, is due to not having a well turned AR that can digest most ammo out there, reliably and lack the knowledge to get it there (the proper action spring, buffer weight combo, loose gas keys, user induced tinkering, and using the doughnut, with the black insert on the extractor, causing stuck cases). 2nd, is poor choice in the weapon selection process itself (incorrect chamber size).
It's an automatic default to blame the ammo, instead of the user/owner. Fallacy of False Cause is what most people fall into about there weapons due to internet/bubba hearsay, not having a good understanding of how the weapon works and lacking the discipline to research to find the real cause. Yes, the issues have developed in well made weapons (Colts, BCM, DD, etc..), but I stand by the first portion of this statement of not having the weapon well tuned to operate throughout a wide range of ammo.
I've shot over 40K rounds of eastern european steel cased ammo, mostly Wolf, reliably and in carbine courses. It worked just fine. A year or so ago, I noticed some malfunctions in Wolf that caused malfunctions in my ARs that normally cycled it reliable, causing me to question something in the manufacturing process. Which caused me to stick exclusively with Brown Bear/Barnaul, which I haven't had not one issue with. I've used it in personal practice and a couple of carbine courses, most recently in Pat Rogers COC this past Dec. I haven't tried Tula or the WPA brand, but have read that Barnaul has taken over the production of Wolf that is labeled WPA.
Also, bad Lots of ammo can be produced by any manufacturer. These are just my observations and what I've experienced over the years. I have several thousand rounds of high quality brass cased ammo, but find it idiocy to shoot for training when there is a cheaper alternative to get me to, or keep me up to my desired training level. As I always state, it's just training fodder, so don't get emotional about it.
Agree across the board (with the exception of the xm193 thing but I'm still shooting XM193 I bought pre-Obama because I shoot it so rarely). But I have used WPA, about 2k of it, and it's replaced the brown bear for me. One stuck case in the 2k, and it mortared out unlike the stuck cases I was getting with wolf at the end that had to be pounded out.
If people want the best possible training ammo I suggest ASYM from Stan Chen. Everything else is a crap shoot, regardless of what the case is made of. Getting snobby about using XM193 or PMC over WPA or brown bear is comical.
RogerinTPA
01-03-12, 10:56
Agree across the board (with the exception of the xm193 thing but I'm still shooting XM193 I bought pre-Obama because I shoot it so rarely). But I have used WPA, about 2k of it, and it's replaced the brown bear for me. One stuck case in the 2k, and it mortared out unlike the stuck cases I was getting with wolf at the end that had to be pounded out.
If people want the best possible training ammo I suggest ASYM from Stan Chen. Everything else is a crap shoot, regardless of what the case is made of. Getting snobby about using XM193 or PMC over WPA or brown bear is comical.
I'll get a few cases of WPA brand to check it out since brown bear can get scarce at times. I've been shooting through a case of IMI193 since I bought quite a bit of it, just to check it's reliability. I'm very pleased with the results.
Worst ever was Natec plastic cased ammo and some Norinco yellow box 55gr someone gave to me many moons ago.
Really? Norinco yellow box?
I had a 1600rd case (back when a case of ammo was man sized :-) ) of Yellow Box Norinco back in late 1993 and it all worked just fine. I shot the last box just a few months ago (I occasionally find a box or two hidden away).
What's wrong with SAWs? Do they chew the brass or something?
Chambers are extra loose, which results in extremely stretched cases, which can weaken the case head webbing.
Hornady Superformance 5.56 75 gr. bthp - worst performing premium ammo I've ever used. 6-7 inch groups from a gun capable of 1.2"-1.5" groups.
I talked Hornady into swapping it out for 5.56mm TAP T2.
It is weird of all the Wolf sucks commens,t I have about 2000 rounds of wolf 62gr I have shot out of my Colt and Not one problem at all. I have shot the Priv M855 smells funny but shots well ans a good bit of LC M855
My vote goes to Herter's 223 from Cabela's
+1. This stuff will not cycle my 6920. Otherwise 2500 rounds of mostly AE223 and xm193 without a single malfunction. I have shot 500 rounds of Brown Bear with out issue also.
What's wrong with SAWs? Do they chew the brass or something?
Sloppy headspace allows the brass to stretch quite a bit. This can lead to case head separations when reloaded and fired again.
+1. This stuff will not cycle my 6920. Otherwise 2500 rounds of mostly AE223 and xm193 without a single malfunction. I have shot 500 rounds of Brown Bear with out issue also.
Herters and Tula are the same ammo.
+1. This stuff will not cycle my 6920.
Standard 6920, entirely OEM components?
Do you Brown Bear shooters use the .223 as well as the 5.56?
I haven't had any issues with either Silver Bear or Golden Bear .223 62 grain HPs. This is shooting 1K rounds of Silver Bear and 1500 rounds of Golden Bear. Most of that was done during carbine classes. 3 of them to be exact. Not one malfunction due to the ammo. Only one double feed due to a bad mag.
Standard 6920, entirely OEM components?
Yes. Stock gas system.
The worst experience I've had is with Silver State Armory's 5.56mm 70gr TSX load. Went through two boxes, about half of them were light primer strikes. SSA told me I should try replacing the hammer spring with one that was rated for at least 4.5 lbs. since they use harder primers. I thought a SCAR should be able to handle military primers, though...
It could be something with my rifle, but it eats other ammo fine. I went ahead and ordered a replacement spring, but haven't tried another box of the SSA ammo yet.
i was literally just about to buy 200 rounds of this stuff after a week of asking about ssa all over this forum and others. i guess this tears it. i have read a few negative things on ssa on other forums ( mostly primer related) is ssa known for stuff like this? i thought their ammo was highly regarded among our community? any one else had trouble like this?
Smokecloud
01-11-12, 11:06
Norinco?!?! :eek: At $.99/box o' 20 in the early '90's, that stuff ROCKED! It was a bit dirty (about like Privi is today), but I never had any problems with it.
Wish a I had a few thousand of those rounds I blew downrange then, BACK as practice ammo today. :( It reloaded well, too.
I loved that stuff, last I bought it was '94 for 2.19 a box, it had gone up, used to buy it in 3600rd case's, I think I still have a 1000 or so. Its a little hot, but at 50 yards, I can cover a 5 shot group with a dime. Never a dud, never a blown primer and the brass will reload upwards of 8X, whereas LC will only make about 4 or 5 before they split. Wish I had 100k of that stuff ratholed. Back then, I loved the muzzle flash, I shot them a lot out of an 11.5" barrel, no flashlight needed. set the water jug out at 20 yards and just start pulling the trigger, first round would light up the range, then just start walking the bullets on target. Flame was at least 3' out the end of the barrel. heck of a lot of fun impressing people when we were having muzzle flash competitions.
Worst ammo I ever shot was a case I bought from Cascade Ammo, I think they were out of the Medford Oregon area. Everytime I think im finally rid of it, a few rounds show up somewhere in in one of my ammo boxes. The neck of the case were almost "ridged", so deeply that most split upon first firing. Powder inconsistancies so bad that some rds would not cycle the gun and were so week, that I pulled the gun down to make sure the bullet exited the barrel. I remember the hype from the salesman, "we load them with 3 separate powder charges to ensure consistancy" I think they forgot 2 of them on several cases. I will never buy from them again.
Wolf gave me nothing but trouble. The only time I've had any issues with my rifle was when using Wolf 55 grain (newer polymer coated casing). It's a good thing I only bought a couple hundred rounds of it. Other than that I've run flawlessly on any other ammo I've used. Now I mostly run my own reloads mainly for the cost factor.
The worst I've seen had to be some Remington factory loaded .223 ammo (55 grain if I remember right) that a friend had that had issues. The round would stick in the chamber and not allow the bolt to fully close and lock up the system. It took a screw driver to slowly pry the BCG back from the barrel extension to remove the round. Not alot of fun. I measured the cases and quite a few were grossly "swollen" and out of spec, causing the sticking issues. Pulled the bullets and chucked the brass on these.
I was actually surprised when I used Silver Bear 62 grain. I bought around 1100 rounds for next to nothing from a friend who sold his AR and had no use for the ammo. I figured 'what the hell? why not'. Other than being dirtier than other ammunition I've fired, it ran great. Accuracy was good and I didn't have any FTE's / FTF's. I figured it would be good ammo if I were to ever take a class as it runs good and I won't worry about the brass.
Greek "Olympia". It looked awesome in the box. SS109 green tip bullet, primers staked and sealed, clean cases. I saw some at a gun show quite a while back. I was tempted to buy a whole case but a little voice told me, no, just try a 50 round box.
Yikes! I fired about 25 rounds out of my Mini-14--this stuff was short stroking a Mini-14. Accuracy was pie-plate groups at 100 yards (before you laugh, my Mini does better than that with decent ammo). Couple of primers were coming out of the primer pockets. It seemed underpowered and very inconsistent. I didn't bother to shoot it in the AR or to chrono it. The rest of the box went into the trash.
Wolf 62gr.
It looked like a belted magnum round the cases were so poorly sized. Jammed in every AR I shot it in due to the "belt" sticking in the chamber. This includes proper 5.56 chrome-lined 20" guns, too.
Worst ammo I have shot thus far is the Remington 55 grain in the green and white 50 round value packs. It functions fine, meaning no issues with causing malfunctions, but accuracy was terrible.
Believe it or not, all the other ammo types stayed within those boxes, but all the fliers you see out of the boxes were from the Remington ammo. For the Remington shot group, the POA was the bottom right corner diamond. It was a 15 shot group. One of the bullets landed 1" left and .5" below where I wrote "55 gr FMJ" so it's not in the picture.
There was one high shot out of the PMC group, I don't know if I pulled it or not. It was a 16 shot group. I was going for 15, but cease fire got called in the middle of my string so I just started up with another five.
This was done at 100 yards, benchrested with a front sandbag/rest, BCM BFH CL'd 16" free floated barrel, on 12x out of a Nikon M223 3-12x SF scope with a stock DD trigger.
http://m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=10832&stc=1&d=1326748535
I was actually surprised when I used Silver Bear 62 grain. I bought around 1100 rounds for next to nothing from a friend who sold his AR and had no use for the ammo. I figured 'what the hell? why not'. Other than being dirtier than other ammunition I've fired, it ran great. Accuracy was good and I didn't have any FTE's / FTF's. I figured it would be good ammo if I were to ever take a class as it runs good and I won't worry about the brass.
I have used both the Silver Bear (1K) and Golden Bear (over 1K) 62 grain hollow points and never had any issues with either one, other than, like you said, dirty...
Accuracy out of a Eotech 512 w/ a crap Mako 5x magnifier, at 100 yards, for the Silver Bear was around 4-5 MOA.
I can usually manage around 3.5"-4" groups with the Golden Bear at 100 yards (Aimpoint CompML3 with a 5x magnifier).
ffhounddog
01-26-12, 13:16
IMI surplus I got with 1998-1999 HS. Failure to eject and hard primers. Turned me off from IMI ammo but I have 200 rounds of IMI 2009 HS M855 I need to try that I traded for so I could try. You know when you get that taste in your mouth you stay away for a bit.
The 1980's surplus IMI I shot before worked fine.
Next ADCOM 1999 HS M855 Over Pressured in my Colt 6920 no kaboom but primers were loose. It did run fine in my LWRCi. 2004 worked for me in my Colt and Sabre.
Olympic I bought 6K of it and shot 5000 through my Sabre Defense Middy and it worked one popped primer. I found the other K last year and I am shooting it in my Spikes Middy. (there were 3 different Years that SS109 Oly ammo was imported and most issues seem to be 1999 HS.)
Radway shot in my LWRC rifles but did not work in a Bushmaster 20 inch A2 clone I use to own.
Wolf, Tula, and Bear ammo all have worked so far.
I had been really impressed with the 500 rounds of Brown Bear 55gr FMJ .223 I shot through on the last day of a muddy carbine class last spring. Accurate enough for 50yds and in and cycled the grubby gun with authority. I even ran several hundred rounds of (brass-cased) PMC Bronze immediately afterward without cleaning the chamber and had no malfs.
So when my German buddy visited this New Year's Eve, I got a case of Brown Bear .223 55gr FMJ from Sportsman's Guide so we could go shooting.
This time, multiple keyholes at 15yds. Fifteen freaking yards. :eek: We'll see how the rest of this case does but I was unimpressed. I can't imagine what would do this but I need to mic a few of the bullets.
ADCOM 5.56 from the U.A.E
Wolf gave me nothing but trouble. The only time I've had any issues with my rifle was when using Wolf 55 grain (newer polymer coated casing). It's a good thing I only bought a couple hundred rounds of it.
Can you tell me when you bought this ammo?
Quite a few of us used Wolf for YEARS, including the polymer coated, and then started having problems with it, primarily stuck cases.
I've switched over to the Bear ammos and then recently put 2k of WPA through various guns and have moved over to that for most things.
Voodoo_Man
01-27-12, 06:34
Out of 5k plus wolf/tula/wpa/herters fired I had only three issues, two were stuck cases because the extractor ripped off part of the case, and the other was an ftfire that was the round not the gun. (Cut the round apart and it did not have any powder.
ADCOM 5.56 from the U.A.E
Ugh, I had forgotten about that stuff. Popped primers galore.
I will elaborate on my Tula experience........
Brand new DDM4V3, very excited to shoot it and all. If I remember correctly, I shot 650 that day at the range, 3-400 of it was Tula. I wanted to see what it could do with a mix of brands. I wish I hadn't ever heard of Tula****ingcraptacular. With the Toola, I had a stuck case every OTHER round that required mortaring and after that tapping out with a cleaning rod (thank goodness I brought one or I would have been SOL). Needless to say, I was disappointed. I knew it was the ammo, NOT my beautiful DD. I honestly thought I might be damaging the DD by shooting this shit****crapammo through it. My DD ran fine on all other ammo types (ALL brass ammo until TOOLA). I want to try WPA and the Bears (silver) and find a nice cheaper round to use. OK, all of the Tula was out of ONE rifle, so maybe it isn't a fair critique. I will be steering clear as I believe there to be better options available for a similar (maybe a little higher) price.
Ammo that I bought expecting it would be crap was Silver Bear. However, in over 2,500 rounds of it...not one single ammo-related failure or extraction failure. Had a couple magazine-related failures but that would have happened with any ammo. It was a cheap-o knock off polymer mag that has since been used as a target.
A friend of mine bought 240 rounds of Brown Bear and he said he had 5 failure to ejects out of 40 rounds with his Daniel Defense AR so he gave me the rest of it. My RRA chewed up and spit the remaining 200 rounds of it problem free. He since upgraded to BCM extractor spring and o-ring and hasn't had any other issues...but also hasn't tried Brown Bear again.
I had one Kaboom with steel case ammo. Not because it was steel cased but because it was loaded too hot (for steel cases).
Personally, I think there are only a few crap ammo. The XM193 Federal series, notorious for popped primers.
This is the reason why few types of 5.56mm ammo is available. People shoot it in their 223 rifles and then claim the ammo is bad due to popped primers.
RogerinTPA
02-05-12, 08:09
This is the reason why few types of 5.56mm ammo is available. People shoot it in their 223 rifles and then claim the ammo is bad due to popped primers.
Agreed. Makes sense. I never had a problem with it, but only shot one case, then witnessed issues in classes with other folks guns, and I didn't buy any more. There always seems to be one dude in every class that pops them, and blames the ammo. I was never close enough to see the make on the gun.
This is the reason why few types of 5.56mm ammo is available. People shoot it in their 223 rifles and then claim the ammo is bad due to popped primers.
True.
On XM193... For a time, XM193 was seen popping primers in verified good chambers. Observed.
True.
On XM193... For a time, XM193 was seen popping primers in verified good chambers. Observed.
Were they verified from being cast? The bores would also need to be verified, as well as the headspace.
I would bet a lot that these were not verified.
you know, I primarily shoot platforms other than the AR. I also shoot some of the cheapest I can find and I shoot it alot. this means I've shot whole bunches of stuff like:
-Wolf both laquered and polymer
-Barnaul in brown silver and gold
-Chinese yellow box surplus
-Guatamalan, south african, Radaway green, and other surplus stuff I cant even remember.
-reloads and factory seconds from HSM, Miwall and others
-bunches of other commercial stuff of all stripes, grades and weights
I cannot blame the malfunctions I've had SOLELY on a bad brand or type of ammo. certainly there have been some duds tho.
It's should be what we call a "clue" that every modern platform can reliably shoot steel case ammo except some AR's. The Mini-14, XCR, ACR, SIG, AUG, FS2000, SCAR, HK all run it just fine with maybe a little extra gas. hell even most Colts will run it fine.
Before condemning ammo as the source of problems, I think AR shooters need to look at their particular guns. shooting cheap ammo means shooting more, shooting more means being better. being able to shoot steel case ammo means a more reliable weapon for brass cased as well. seems to me that would be the goal of every shooter right?
that said, the WORST ammo I ever shot was the Indian surplus 308. It fed and went bang everytime, but the accuracy was just SILLY bad. I mean it was not grouping it was patterning.
I've only had 2 failures with mine ever. One was with me taking a chance on Wolf ammo with the poly coating. I ended up with a stuck casing in the chamber & a day cut short. The other one was during a competition with Fiocchi ammo. The primer unseated & then the primer charge split from the primer case & got caught in the lug & locked the gun up.
Having said that about Fiocchi, their customer service was great. I called them about it & they took the remaining amount of ammo I had & replaced it for me.
Grand58742
03-15-12, 12:30
that said, the WORST ammo I ever shot was the Indian surplus 308. It fed and went bang everytime, but the accuracy was just SILLY bad. I mean it was not grouping it was patterning.
Had some of this myself a couple of years ago. Out of the 50 round pack I bought to try I only fired 20 rounds. Accuracy was somewhat acceptable for Mil-Surp at minute of man at 100 yards. Acceptable for plinking/training ammo, but nothing to bet your life on. But out of 20 rounds, had three popped primers. One might be okay with questionable surplus over a few hundred rounds, but three out of twenty rounds is asking for trouble. IIRC (it's been a few years ago) the first was after the 10th round and the final two were 19 and 20 respectively.
Store did credit me a refund after I showed them the expended cases and pulled the rest from the shelf.
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