View Full Version : There's no way on earth I will spend 900 dollars on an HK45....
John_Wayne777
12-09-07, 13:40
Nope. I won't do it. I'm standing there looking at an HK45 and even though I was stabbed in the face yesterday and thought about how quickly your life can be ended by some dumba$$ hillbilly with a rusty Mauser, I was sane enough to realize that I'm not going to spend that much money on a handgun right now.
Nope.
No way.
Not going to do it.
Wouldn't be prudent.
Nope.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/both.jpg
But somehow the idea of spending 900 bucks on TWO handguns seemed perfectly reasonable.
I need to lie down.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/three.jpg
One concern....the extractor on the .45 version appears to be a bit off....I figure it's a cosmetic thing and since it's already pretty ugly I'm not too worried about it. If it's a function issue I want to get it fixed.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/45close.jpg
For 450 bucks I wasn't going to complain too loudly.
fivepointoh
12-09-07, 13:42
Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.
I agree...I wouldn't spend that much on an HK45 either.
Btw your post yesterday about the gun show cracked me up and was so true. :D
....and even though I was stabbed in the face yesterday...
What?? :eek:
John_Wayne777
12-09-07, 13:51
I agree...I wouldn't spend that much on an HK45 either.
That's just it....I wouldn't mind spending the money if I had an abundant supply of it. I want one so bad I can taste it. I think they are going to prove to be fantastic weapons. ...I just don't usually have H&K money to put into a handgun.
But for some reason I end up spending the same amount on a couple of other guns and don't blink......
I'm a sick, sick man.
John_Wayne777
12-09-07, 13:53
What?? :eek:
For a more thorough explanation, see Grant's gunshow thread:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=9561
Robb Jensen
12-09-07, 14:06
....and even though I was stabbed in the face yesterday...
I think I might have stomped a mudhole in rednecks ass so wide that he could float a kayak in it...........:D.
John_Wayne777
12-09-07, 14:11
I think I might have stomped a mudhole in rednecks ass so wide that he could float a kayak in it...........:D.
I was tempted.
I mean, there I am minding my own business and this idiot stabs me in the face and is being a dumbass about it....and there's a Desert Eagle right there which would make for a pistol whipping of BIBLICAL proportions....
Instead of committing an act that could be proved criminal in court, I decided instead to use the secret black magic powers of my Blackwater T-shirt to conjure a curse dooming him to a lifetime of vehicle rust and beechnut stains on every article of clothing he owns.
Jay Cunningham
12-09-07, 14:35
I'm standing there looking at an HK45 and even though I was stabbed in the face yesterday and thought about how quickly your life can be ended by some dumba$$ hillbilly with a rusty Mauser, I was sane enough to realize that I'm not going to spend that much money on a handgun right now.
The guy that stabbed you... he didn't happen to have a really long tongue, did he? And an AR with a titanium firing pin?
I have dry-fired my M&P45 at least 1500 times by now - I'm not sure if it will need a trigger job. It's that much better now than it was when I bought it.
The HK pistol looks very nice, but not $450 nicer than the S&W.
Welcome my friend, welcome. :D
John_Wayne777
12-09-07, 14:54
The trigger is pretty heinous on both of them right now...but the same was true of my full sized 9 when I got it. It improved with some trigger pulls and some rounds downrange.
I need to get the sights worked out. I'm most likely going to send both of them to Burwell for trigger work and to have night sights installed. I installed the night sights on my full sized 9mm and as you know from the low light class that didn't work out so good. I don't know if the sight was just defective or if me beating it to death while cursing profusely made it give up the ghost, but I'm not taking any more chances.
Sending one gun back to Trijicon so they can deal with it is enough of a pain to worry about.
Jay Cunningham
12-09-07, 15:09
I don't care for the humungous white dots on the rear. I am going to wait until Heinie makes Straight 8's for it. I used to think just the night sight on the front and a plain black rear was the way to go, but I am now thinking the Straight 8 setup might be right for me.
I have been thinking hard about a straight 8 set for my FDE M&P 45 as well.
As for the extractor, you may have gotten one of the first series of 45's when they were in a ruch to get to market and sent them out with poor finishes. It's all cosmetic and S&W will re finish for you at no cost if you want them to.
variablebinary
12-09-07, 15:26
I wouldnt either. That price point is reserved for carbines and 1911's
Personally I dont see what the fuss is all about with the HK45.
I will, but I won't like it much from a cost standpoint. Maybe one of my very generous friends will cut me a break on one. :D
Or maybe I will wait for someone to sell a used one after they realize they really only like Glocks or Colt SAA's or something.
The guy that stabbed you... he didn't happen to have a really long tongue, did he? And an AR with a titanium firing pin?
Now that is funny!
C4
I don't care for the humungous white dots on the rear. I am going to wait until Heinie makes Straight 8's for it. I used to think just the night sight on the front and a plain black rear was the way to go, but I am now thinking the Straight 8 setup might be right for me.
Got an e-mail from them that these will be available in Jan..
C4
Jay Cunningham
12-09-07, 17:09
Got an e-mail from them that these will be available in Jan..
C4
Thanks for the info, Grant.
variablebinary
12-09-07, 18:53
Or maybe I will wait for someone to sell a used one after they realize they really only like Glocks or Colt SAA's or something.
Have we met? That sounds like me
well...i'll step in it I guess....
I have a HK45....(didnt spend 900 on it though, thank you CDNN)....
I had a MP45 when they first came out....did not take to it like I have the 9mm (the M&P 9mm is my favorite in the 9mm platform...)...i found the .45 sluggish, and it felt like it had more muzzle flip...YMMV, but I LOVE the M&P 9mm...really, really wanted to like the .45...didnt...in fact, of the G21SF, XD45, and M&P 45, I probably liked them in that order...
I really, really like the HK45...it feels better in my hand better than the M&P 45, G21Sf, XD 45, and regular USP (all which I have owned)...its profile is narrower (more 1911-esque), and the bore axis sits lower to me....
combine that with cocked and locked carry, and a SA trigger that breaks very cleanly at 4.5 pounds and has excellent, short reset, and it is my favorite non-1911 .45...to the point that I am seriously considering a HK45c when they appear....
John_Wayne777
12-09-07, 20:06
As for the extractor, you may have gotten one of the first series of 45's when they were in a ruch to get to market and sent them out with poor finishes. It's all cosmetic and S&W will re finish for you at no cost if you want them to.
Good to know.
Personally I don't really care as long as it goes bang.
The only thing I'm really not happy about is that the 9c has the magazine safety...but for 439 out the door I'm more than willing to de-safety it myself or have Burwell do it for me.
I'm really liking the longer sight radius on the M&P 45. The sights seem to line up more quickly and automatically for me on the 45.
John_Wayne777
12-09-07, 20:26
Got an e-mail from them that these will be available in Jan..
C4
Sounds like what I need for the new toys.
NCPatrolAR
12-09-07, 21:36
Hmmm, might have to pick up a set of Straight 8s for my MP40C. I have found Dan Burwell's rear sight when used in conjunction with the factory front to be the optimum sight configuration for me so far. The Heinie's might change that though.
I will end up with an HK45 within a few months. Christmas, AK projects, and having to hold back for a special AR to arrive are the only things stopping me. But I'm under no illusions it's $400 better than an M&P45. "Better" maybe, but it would take a top 5% shooter and a lot of rounds to see it.
I just prefer its ergonomics, shot one before and loved it, that it can be configured to mimic my 1911 controls (eventually), match trigger (eventually), and well I just want one. Plus I’m intrigued by it’s rear of trigger guard magazine release. While I have no prior experience with this style magazine release (HK) it seemed very user friendly on the HK45 I have fondled.
That’s enough for me to spend the extra cash, plus the fact that I already own an M&P9mm.
The Dumb Gun Collector
12-09-07, 23:23
It is true that, in the end, the HK45 is just another choice in the .45 world.
It is an excellent choice, however. It is the summation of years of development (that started before the M&P) and a lot of very serious guys (Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn, Karl Nill, various humorless German engineers) put a lot of thought into it. It isn't the cheapest, but that isn't the point. Even some of my friends who are generally very anti-HK have had to reluctantly admit that the grip is the best they have ever felt on a non-single stack .45--and that the gun seems to be very well thought out. Further, they also noted that the 4.5 pound trigger is much better than that on many of its competitors.
As an aside, I just got through running some .45 Super through mine. 230 grains at 1100 plus fps is, uh, boomy!!:D http://web.mac.com/timetravelfoundation/The_LAMP/PROJECT%3A_BREAK_MY_HK45/Entries/2007/12/1_Blammo_files/shapeimage_2.jpg
A bunch of us handled one Saturday. All agreed the 12+ lb DA trigger pull sucked big time and there is a cut out area in the botton of the trigger guard that is painful when pulling the trigger. I really like HKs but in no way would I buy this one over a M&P.
Am I the only one that thinks an ambi slide release is just plain silly?
The Dumb Gun Collector
12-10-07, 02:31
As far as ambi releases.. I suspect whatever percentage of the population is left handed or has small finger would disagree with you.
As for the double action trigger pull, remember, this gun is designed to be carried cocked and locked (with the 4.5 pound trigger). The double action is simply a re-strike mode. Another feature lacked by most competitors.
John_Wayne777
12-10-07, 06:49
I just prefer its ergonomics, shot one before and loved it, that it can be configured to mimic my 1911 controls (eventually), match trigger (eventually), and well I just want one. Plus I’m intrigued by it’s rear of trigger guard magazine release. While I have no prior experience with this style magazine release (HK) it seemed very user friendly on the HK45 I have fondled.
When I had my USPs I found it to be a pretty good solution. I never put myself on a timer or anything, but I never found there to be any problem activating the release at speed.
My Walther P99 has a similar arrangement. It's a good solution to the mag release issue if you are looking for a weapon that is as ambidextrous use friendly as possible.
As to the HK45 itself, I have no doubt that it is a fine weapon...and I really would like to own one...I just couldn't convince myself to pull the trigger on it yesterday....but two M&Ps with the deal they had on them was too much temptation to resist.
When there are guns that are no more reliable (possibly less reliable), that also shoot a .45 slug down range that cost 1k, 2k, 3k and up....$900 isn't a big deal to me at all.
As a matter of fact, being a former USP owner and having handled the HK45, this pistol is a must have in my book.
The grip design is a quantum leap better than the USP IMO. This pistol, to me, isn't just a next generation USP....it's the gun the USP tried to be and never was.
I'm by no means an HK snob...as a matter of fact I take issue to some extent with the circle jerks some guys are perpetually having with anything stamped "HK". That isn't me...at all.
What is interesting to me are dead-nutz reliable .45's. Those get my attention every time. My USP 45 was that gun, but uncomfortable grip. My 220's are most definately those guns. And the HK45 is the next generation of those dead-nutz reliable 45's.
HK's always command a premium....but IMO, when you can put a $900 fighting gun up against others with a cost of at least twice as much and have the weapons perform very similarly, every bit as reliable...and the added benefit of increased capacity, the $900 price tag is simply not an issue.....to me. Can't wait to get mine....best new handgun to come out in some time IMO. Nice job LAV!
Am I the only one that thinks an ambi slide release is just plain silly?
As a lefty, I think the ambi slide release and the swappable mag release are silly. I can do both, faster, with my trigger finger. I see it as an advantage for righties that want to use their trigger fingers.
I was all jazzed up for the H&K45 but that was 12-18 months ago :(
Since I love the M&P9 the most logical choice for me would be an M&P45.
However, I'm tempted to try the H&K45 but I'm also afraid I would absolutely love it and have to buy one. Maybe I'll wait for Dinger to get his, test drive it and then decide.
The Dumb Gun Collector
12-10-07, 09:20
Dport,
On the HK45 the mag release isn't swappable, it is ambi.
I'm confused.... :confused: Is this thread about JW's new M&P 45 (and 9C), or about why the HK 45 is a superior handgun and is worth the $900 price tag?
fivepointoh
12-10-07, 09:33
For those of you who have shot it, hows the weight of it?
Is it heavier like a 1911, making recoil more manageable and decent follow up shots or is it snappy like a .40 in polymer pistols?
I haven't shot an HK45 but have handled a couple at the SHOT show. They're lighter than an all steel 1911. Along the same weight as an M&P45 or Glock 21.
fivepointoh
12-10-07, 12:02
Thanks for the info.
I'm assuming they'll be on par as shooting another polymer .45 then. Although each gun is different and how it handles recoil.
As mentioned before the HK is basically 100% "good to go" out of the box. A lot of other firearms just aren't that way. Just depends on if it's a good fit for your needs.
Personally speaking, I'd like to see someone make a browning linkless type pistol that externally resembled a 1911 and even took the same mags, sights, safeties, etc. That would be interesting. Quite frankly I'd also be partial to a more modern, slim, polymer framed design that took 1911 mags too.
My $.02, anyway.
I'll wait to see the HK45C before making a decision on whether to get one.
As far as ambi releases.. I suspect whatever percentage of the population is left handed or has small finger would disagree with you.
Thats their bad for using the slide release instead of sling-shotting ;)
The Dumb Gun Collector
12-10-07, 21:29
Nah, lefties deserve to be able to reload fast too:D
Nah, lefties deserve to be able to reload fast too:D
If they're slower sling shotting a slide over finding a slide release then they probably shouldnt play with loaded weapons.
The Dumb Gun Collector
12-10-07, 22:29
If thumbing a slide release takes you longer than yanking a slide you need new thumbs. Whatever the benefits vs drawbacks of each, dropping from the slide release is always faster than having to do the extra step of sling-shoting. In my experience anyway. Pointless, since I am a righty as GOD INTENDED!!:D
Thats their bad for using the slide release instead of sling-shotting ;)
Larry Vickers and former Delta guys all teach using the slide release.
What prices are you guys finding for the M&P45?
The Dumb Gun Collector
12-10-07, 23:52
Larry Vickers and former Delta guys all teach using the slide release.
Yeah, but what does he know?;)
How does the compact shoot?
How does the compact shoot?
This thread is about the discussion of the wonders of the out of the box perfect HK45. Please refrain from hijacking it.
Business_Casual
12-11-07, 10:07
I shot a few rounds from one on Sunday and it is truly a spectacular German wonder weapon.
Very accurate, no malfunctions, easy to use and control.
M_P
Bowie Tactical
12-24-07, 15:46
I am sitting here with a HK .45 right now and I don't get it. Way too much for the gun. When I compare it to my M&P .45's they win hands down. More compact, sit lower in the hnad , better trigger reach, and way better mag release. Triggers from factory both suck but the M&P .45 triggers I do make them fabulous.
The overall feel of the M&P to me is way better. I know HK is known for accurate pistols but my 3 M&P .45's shoot almost like match guns.
Plus 2 M&P's for 1 HK.
CHECK 360
David Bowie
Bowie Tactical Concepts
Robb Jensen
12-24-07, 15:57
I am sitting here with a HK .45 right now and I don't get it. Way too much for the gun. When I compare it to my M&P .45's they win hands down. More compact, sit lower in the hnad , better trigger reach, and way better mag release. Triggers from factory both suck but the M&P .45 triggers I do make them fabulous.
The overall feel of the M&P to me is way better. I know HK is known for accurate pistols but my 3 M&P .45's shoot almost like match guns.
Plus 2 M&P's for 1 HK.
CHECK 360
David Bowie
Bowie Tactical Concepts
I 100% agree David.
Hey Welcome to the M4Carbine.net too!
Stay Safe,
Robb
Mr. Bowie, saw a FDE 45 that you did over on M&P forums. VERY nice. I may have to send you mine soon for a little work. :D
Heavy Metal
12-24-07, 19:24
Larry Vickers and former Delta guys all teach using the slide release.
What prices are you guys finding for the M&P45?
I saw Larry ribbing The Vihninator for slingshoting. Were is Vihn? I haven't seen him post in some time?
John_Wayne777
12-24-07, 20:53
The overall feel of the M&P to me is way better. I know HK is known for accurate pistols but my 3 M&P .45's shoot almost like match guns.
Plus 2 M&P's for 1 HK.
At the low light class in November Ken Hackathorn said that the M&P .45s are freakishly accurate for some reason.
John_Wayne777
12-24-07, 20:54
I saw Larry ribbing The Vihninator for slingshoting. Were is Vihn? I haven't seen him post in some time?
He's probably too busy shooting.
John_Wayne777
12-24-07, 20:58
As a bit of an update, I just got rid of the mag safety in my M&P 9C. It has helped the trigger somewhat.
Alas, I still haven't had the chance to shoot either the 9C or the .45....:( I've done quite a bit of dryfire practice with the A-Zoom snapcaps, however, and I've noticed that even though the .45's trigger pull is kind of heavy, it breaks nice and clean causing no wobble in the sights.
I most likely would have bought an HK45 had they not pissed on many of the ideas and concepts that they solicited from LAV. It is my opinion that HK's arrogance robbed them of what probably would have come to be known as the service pistol, and at the same time, gave S&W the opportunity to, once again, be a force in the LEO and civilian defense markets. HK: When it comes to arrogance, there is no compromise...
Robb Jensen
12-24-07, 22:50
At the low light class in November Ken Hackathorn said that the M&P .45s are freakishly accurate for some reason.
FYI of the M&Ps the .45s lock up the 'tightest', followed by the .40s and then the 9mms.
FYI of the M&Ps the .45s lock up the 'tightest', followed by the .40s and then the 9mms.
Any idea how M&P 45's with a few thousand rounds down the barrel have been holding up? I hate flying the "A" model on firearms, but I have a feeling the LEM HK45's aren't going to be seen for a number of months.
I most likely would have bought an HK45 had they not pissed on many of the ideas and concepts that they solicited from LAV. It is my opinion that HK's arrogance robbed them of what probably would have come to be known as the service pistol, and at the same time, gave S&W the opportunity to, once again, be a force in the LEO and civilian defense markets. HK: When it comes to arrogance, there is no compromise...
Apart from the grip with finger grooves on the full size, what other ideas did he have that HK decided against?
I won't speak for LAV. He is a member here, so if he feels like filling in the blanks, I'm sure he'll be along. Suffice it to say that the USP is a design that had been around for a while, and had been under the microscope. I know that LAV looked at them seriously several years ago, as evidenced by his sand test. Besides being an operator, he was a well established pistolsmith. He knows his service guns--a product of his career in the armed forces, and his love of gunsmithing. Take all of that into consideration, then look at the HK45. Then picture the USP. Do you really, for one second, think that any reasonable man that fit the description above, would sign on as a consultant to design a new be-all/end-all service gun, and turn out a simple cosmetic make over?
I am sorry if I come across abrasive, but for years I looked forward to the unveiling of the HK/Vickers project. But again, I was robbed...
crowkiller
12-25-07, 03:15
I think LAV and HK done a great job at evolving the USP.45 into the HK45.
HK's are definitely not the cheapest on the block but I reckon it could be worse. For a striker fired .45 I like the M&P for a DA/SA I like the HK45 its personal preference I reckon. I got my HK45 for a whopping $652.00 before tax.:D
I got my HK45 for a whopping $652.00 before tax.:D
Where?
I got my HK45 for a whopping $652.00 before tax.:D
Yeah, what S-1 said.
You can't hold out on us!
Bowie Tactical
12-25-07, 11:42
aurang, I have 3 .M&P 45's. Two of them have over 3000 each. While that is not alot they are holding up very very well. Accuarcy is great. I have had no malfunctions of any kind. Niether show any unusual sign of wear on any of the parts.
CHECK 360
David Bowie
Thanks Dave,
3000 rounds is probably more mileage than most pistols see. Glad to hear they're holding up well. The tan framed ones without the nightsights are running about $500 in my area, which isn't bad at all.
John_Wayne777
12-25-07, 14:57
From the samples I've handled the FDE ones seem to have a mushier safety engagement than the black ones with the safety....
John_Wayne777
12-25-07, 17:59
Thumb Safety?
Yup. The black framed models I've played with seem to have a better feel to the safety when you take it on and off.
Hmmm... The thumb safety on my FDE one feels pretty positive and smooth. Clicks on and off nicely. Not that that says much though, as I dont have one on my black 45 to compare it too, and its been a while since I handled a black one with the safety.
crowkiller
12-25-07, 20:26
S-1 & DrMark- I bought it at Target World in Cincy, Ohio they got two in stock 11-17-07 one sold that day and I bought the other one 11-19-07. I couldnt believe the price I even asked to make sure it was right and the guy said yeah. I kept calling for like 2 weeks after to see if they got anymore in stock but they didnt. One of the guys said he didnt know if theyed still be for that price when they did get the new shipment. I gave up on calling so maybe yall could check and see. Things can be weird at Target World it a good size place they have qwite a few guys working there and the right hand doesnt always know what the left hand is doing, I reckon that would explain the price screw up.
http://www.targetworld.net/
Larry Vickers and former Delta guys all teach using the slide release.
What prices are you guys finding for the M&P45?
Mine was $529 with ambi safety and night sights, no mag safety. :p
If you are in the market for an M&P you need to check out Grant's prices. Even with shipping and transfer my pistol was about 75 bucks cheaper than my local stores, that doesn't include tax or the 3rd mag that you get. Also S&W has a deal going on right now where you get 2 free mags and a 50 dollar rebate. Screaming good deal.
I just got back from the range where i ran 200rds. of ball ammo thru each,the m&p 45 and the h&k 45, no failures. 200 rds of ball ammo thru these pistols at 25 yards does not confirm much but did confirm one thing, i need practice , a lot of it. Anyways here are some of (my) initial impressions/opinions of each and they may change in the future.
Reliability: I will give the edge to the h&k 45 at this point, only because it ( the usp platform) has been proven and reflned and has stood the test of time where the m&p 45 needs a little more time under its belt.
Accuracy: Both my pistols are to new and have been shot to little with no variety of ammo for me to answer this from first hand experience. I did shoot the hK 45 a tad better today though, this was single action cocked and locked,probably the only way i would carry it (variant 9). Everything i have heard is they are both equally accurate with the ammo they prefer.
Durability: Like the above i give the edge to the h&k for now.
Grip comfort: Only (you) can determine this by handling and preferably shooting each, just make sure you try all the differant backstrap inserts on each gun. If i could not have the small backstraps on them i would own neither. The grip on the m&p is a little more flat on the side and a little less hand filling than the h&k. The texturing of the grip on the H&k seems to have a lttle more bite to it . I would rather not have the finger grooves on the h&k fullsize model if given the choice as they very slightly crowd my top two fingers , with a high hold.
Grip to bore axis: The M&P45 sits lower in the hand than the H&K45 but shooting both of them today side by side the differance in control, muzzle flip,etc. was very small as not to matter to me.
Mag release: Like most of you i am used to the traditional style of the m&p 45 mag release . That being said i have absolutely no problem dealing with the improved h&k 45 mag release, plus it is ambidextrious.
Size: I did an overlay with the M&P laying on top of the H&K and they are the same except the H&K grip is approximately .375 of an inch longer and .060 thousand of an inch thicker.
Trigger: With a Bowie M&P trigger job you got the best trigger job on a striker fired pistol, period. The single action pull on my H&K 45 is also surprisingly
good and the double action pull, well who cares. I suspect someone will be tweaking these in the future if you feel the need. The bottom of the H&K trigger rides in a groove in the trigger guard this groove has two edges that could be slightly smoothed for your trigger finger. Also the top part of the trigger yoke corner could use some slight contouring also.
Sights: I am not a big fan of two rear sight dots but my shooting eye vision is 20/40 corrected , so whatever works for you. The H&K 45 luminous sights were usable for around 1 hr. or so after i held them close to a light bulb for a couple of minutes and layed it in a completely dark bedroom.
Mag design and constrution: I noticed the H&K 45 mag body has a dovetailed rear seam and the mag length is around .375 thousands of an inch longer, theirs the differance in the grip length. 10 rounds of ammo go into the h&k magazines very easy where i really had to struggle to get 10 into the new .m&p magazines. The H&K magazine base plates appear to be made out of a more durable material than the M&P and i also like the finish on the H&K mags better.
Exterior Finish :The finish on both weapons is fine for me.
Warranty: ( if you do not void it): Smith and Wesson
Value: Smith and Wesson
I paid a grand a total of $ 883.00 for my H&K 45 , that includes shipping and the transfer fee. I got it from the big outfit in Abilene.Texas. I also picked up six extra mags for it from Buds gunshop a couple of weeks ago. No there is no way i would pay $900.00 + tax for the H&K45 let alone the $ 999.99 some of the shops up here are askin for it.
S-1 & DrMark- I bought it at Target World in Cincy, Ohio they got two in stock 11-17-07 one sold that day and I bought the other one 11-19-07. I couldnt believe the price I even asked to make sure it was right and the guy said yeah. I kept calling for like 2 weeks after to see if they got anymore in stock but they didnt. One of the guys said he didnt know if theyed still be for that price when they did get the new shipment. I gave up on calling so maybe yall could check and see. Things can be weird at Target World it a good size place they have qwite a few guys working there and the right hand doesnt always know what the left hand is doing, I reckon that would explain the price screw up.
http://www.targetworld.net/
Not to hi-jack this thread any more than it already is but I called these guys today and was quoted $720 for an HK45 (due in middle of January).
Great price, but now for the bad news --- no phone sales or transfers.
John_Wayne777
12-26-07, 19:28
I'm trying to figure out what sight setups I want on my M&Ps.
Frankly I don't really like 3 dot setups especially on night sights because they are too busy. It's easy to get them confused when you are trying to use them in low light under stress, especially if they are all the same color. Even different colors are often similar enough to the standard green that my color-blind eyes can't pick up the difference.
On the other hand, without something on the rear sight it's kind of difficult to know if you are lined up on target or not.
I've never used Heinie's straight 8 setup before, but that seems like it might be the ideal solution. Put the smaller dot on top of the bigger dot (as it would appear relationally from behind the gun) and press the trigger.
Is anyone using the Heinie straight 8 system on any of their other guns?
Jay Cunningham
12-26-07, 19:31
On my Glock 19 I have the Heinie trit on the front and the flat black serrated Slant-Pro on the rear.
After the LL class I have decided that when Heinie releases their sights for the M&P I'll be getting race-cut straight 8's... and I'll do the Sharpie Trick on the rear dot. ;)
I've got a trijicon front/warren rear on my glock and had a gold bead front/10-8 on my 1911 then changed to tritium front.
I have three dot factories on my M&P. I'd like a straight eight rear. The factory tritium rears are too bright and the silver ring catches a lot of light at the range.
I'm trying to figure out what sight setups I want on my M&Ps....
Is anyone using the Heinie straight 8 system on any of their other guns?
I have been using the Straight 8's on my 2 different Glocks for about 4 years, and had a set on a 1911 for awhile. They are good sights and I have had no mechanical problems with them. The standard rear notch is way to narrow, and as mentioned I would get the "race cut models" for serious use. I have very good vision and in anything but the perfect lighting I struggle to get proper sight alignment/picture with the standard width, my buddy has the wider rear notch and they are much faster and easier to use.
To complicate things even worse, I have given up on rear tritium and gone to a tritium front only, I have found I like rear sights with some thickness to the rear blade with a wider sight channel. This seems to allow more light around the notch and makes it easier to pick up the front sight in low light. I have YOBO's on my 1911's with novak fronts, and would have them on all my pistols if i could.
So where does that leave you for your M&P? Well I just returned home from my outdoor range where i was shooing my brand spanking new M&P 9mm with tritium front and 10-8 rear, which I shot next to my g17 with the straight 8's. I shot both guns with a weapon mounted light and various hand held methods, In all instances I preferred the 10-8 rear over the Hienie's. I wish i had some wider rear notch Heinie's to compare them to. These are my first rear sights with the rear u notch and it seemed odd at first, but after a few magazines it was a non issue. You can always try them both out and sell the ones you don't like ;-) hope this helps.
Bowie Tactical
12-27-07, 01:25
I got in a HK 45 to work on yesturday. The job was to deal with the trigger groove biggie spoke of. I have taken care of that by completely dishing out the trigger guard and removing about all the signs of the channel.
The problem was that when I got the HK in, the trigger would not reliably reset in dry firing. It has been shot alot by the owner and friends but not to extreme. It feels like when comparing it to other HK's I have in the shop the trigger return spring is very weak.
I shot 200 rounds through it and it worked just fine. But when dry firing, it would not always bring the trigger all the way back forward. I am trying to get a new return spring for it. Even in live fire the return was slugish.
CHECK 360
David Bowie
doorkicker
12-27-07, 02:38
There's no way on earth I will spend 900 dollars on an HK45....
$900.00 :eek: I bought mine for $550.00 :D
http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/543/hkusp45pr5.jpg
$900.00 :eek: I bought mine for $550.00 :D
http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/543/hkusp45pr5.jpg
You do realize that that is a USP 45 and not an HK 45 right?
doorkicker
12-27-07, 05:46
You do realize that that is a USP 45 and not an HK 45 right?
Oops...that one flew right over my head ;)
John_Wayne777
12-27-07, 12:25
To complicate things even worse, I have given up on rear tritium and gone to a tritium front only, I have found I like rear sights with some thickness to the rear blade with a wider sight channel. This seems to allow more light around the notch and makes it easier to pick up the front sight in low light. I have YOBO's on my 1911's with novak fronts, and would have them on all my pistols if i could.
I've been contemplating the same thing....running a Warren or a 10-8 plain black rear and a tritium front sight, but since I've never run that setup I didn't know how it would work out. At the LL class I had the opposite setup....tritium rears and a black front sight thanks to my trijicons dying on me....
That setup sucked.
So where does that leave you for your M&P? Well I just returned home from my outdoor range where i was shooing my brand spanking new M&P 9mm with tritium front and 10-8 rear, which I shot next to my g17 with the straight 8's. I shot both guns with a weapon mounted light and various hand held methods, In all instances I preferred the 10-8 rear over the Hienie's. I wish i had some wider rear notch Heinie's to compare them to. These are my first rear sights with the rear u notch and it seemed odd at first, but after a few magazines it was a non issue. You can always try them both out and sell the ones you don't like ;-) hope this helps.
It certainly helps. If you and Ken Hackathorn can run a black rear and a tritium front, I can probably pull it off too.
Robb Jensen
12-27-07, 12:28
Do it JW777, all the cool kidds are....j/k. Really though a plan black rear sight like a (Warren or Sevigny) and a tritium front are ideal. Very fast and less 'busy'.
For daytime use I do wish that the Warren night sight fronts were a tad thinner, maybe .110"-.115" but that may not be feasible for making them and not having the tritium tubes break during manufacture.....I don't know.
Steelshooter
01-02-08, 22:46
His serial number is MPR which should be one of the newer ones. I have and MPN and a MPR and both have well fitted and finished extractors. Both my triggers have broken in to the point that I don't feel the need for a trigger job although it wouldn't hurt. The HK .45 is a non starter for for the same reason as the M&P with the thumb safety. It's directly in the way of my thumbs forward grip. I also don't like DA/SA triggers, HK euro mag releases or H&K service. Other than that I can appreciate that thing is built like a tank and i like the big honkin slide release. Oh yeah, for $900 couldn't they have put real night sights on the thing instead of Super Luminova?
As for the extractor, you may have gotten one of the first series of 45's when they were in a ruch to get to market and sent them out with poor finishes. It's all cosmetic and S&W will re finish for you at no cost if you want them to.
Steelshooter
01-02-08, 22:59
Burwell is doing gold bead front sights for the M&P.
I've got a trijicon front/warren rear on my glock and had a gold bead front/10-8 on my 1911 then changed to tritium front.
I have three dot factories on my M&P. I'd like a straight eight rear. The factory tritium rears are too bright and the silver ring catches a lot of light at the range.
My extractor after 200 rounds is wearing off it's finish. Ridiculous. The finish on the takedown lever is on it's way out too...
Steelshooter
01-02-08, 23:28
I do an overhand sling shot but I was a jarhead. :cool: Thats what Clint Smith teaches but he are one too.
Larry Vickers and former Delta guys all teach using the slide release.
What prices are you guys finding for the M&P45?
The Dumb Gun Collector
01-03-08, 00:00
I have 2530 rounds through mine. Zero malfunctions. I was going to run it in parallel with a similarly priced Colt or Springfield but I blew up my Springfield doing a TRB on a squib!! I loved that gun.
Anyway, the HK45 is boringly reliable. I am running it with 2 mags to see if they fail (I have 5 total). I am running about 300 rounds a week through it. I plan to crank it up to 500 Although I did run about 750 through her this last weekend.
http://web.mac.com/timetravelfoundation/The_LAMP/PROJECT%3A_BREAK_MY_HK45/Entries/2007/12/31_PIC_files/shapeimage_2.jpg
Steelshooter
01-05-08, 00:03
OK now I really want that damn pistol for no good reason I can think of...plus I really love, LOVE, my two M&P .45's. If I can find one for a decent price I'll prolly have to get it.
My extractor after 200 rounds is wearing off it's finish. Ridiculous. The finish on the takedown lever is on it's way out too...
I put 500 rounds through a brand new M&P last weekend shooting shotgun hulls and my extractor looks brand new. I think S&W must hate you. :D
Steelshooter
01-05-08, 00:16
He wrote about it in Guns and Ammo and seemed kind of lukewarm about the pistol. Or maybe its just how i read it. Anyway he also says this "Other gunmakers have not been sleeping, so other serious contenders to the HK 45 are on the horizon. Most notable of these is the S&W M&P 45. I have shot the M&P 45 prototype pistol, and it has a lot of potential."
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ga_handguns/birthhk_033007/
I most likely would have bought an HK45 had they not pissed on many of the ideas and concepts that they solicited from LAV. It is my opinion that HK's arrogance robbed them of what probably would have come to be known as the service pistol, and at the same time, gave S&W the opportunity to, once again, be a force in the LEO and civilian defense markets. HK: When it comes to arrogance, there is no compromise...
I most likely would have bought an HK45 had they not pissed on many of the ideas and concepts that they solicited from LAV. It is my opinion that HK's arrogance robbed them of what probably would have come to be known as the service pistol, and at the same time, gave S&W the opportunity to, once again, be a force in the LEO and civilian defense markets. HK: When it comes to arrogance, there is no compromise...
I must have missed this.
From what I’ve read and gotten out of him only a few things have changed about the HK45 since it was originally developed. Two were great ideas and one is a cosmetic/non-issue.
- More ergonomic magazine catch – great idea
- More ergonomic thumb safety – great idea
- Grip cosmetics – “ugly” to some but very comfortable and complete non-issue for shooting.
What seems to irate LAV is the delays in bringing it to the market, but even that is blamed some what on the cancelled SOCOM .45 solicitation.
condition 1
01-05-08, 19:27
I have 2530 rounds through mine. Zero malfunctions. I was going to run it in parallel with a similarly priced Colt or Springfield but I blew up my Springfield doing a TRB on a squib!! I loved that gun.
Anyway, the HK45 is boringly reliable. I am running it with 2 mags to see if they fail (I have 5 total). I am running about 300 rounds a week through it. I plan to crank it up to 500 Although I did run about 750 through her this last weekend.
http://web.mac.com/timetravelfoundation/The_LAMP/PROJECT%3A_BREAK_MY_HK45/Entries/2007/12/31_PIC_files/shapeimage_2.jpg
Will the Hk.45 take the USP mags,or are they completly different ???
John_Wayne777
01-05-08, 21:04
Returning to the sight issue, I'm ready to start getting everything together.
Does the .45 version of the M&P require a different rear sight (from Warren) than the 9mm and .40 versions? Just looking at them I can't see a difference, but there's a lot in the world that I can't see....
Also, does anyone know where you can buy just tritium front sights? I'll need them for the .45, the 9C and the standard 9mm.
Rear sights are all the same.
Robb Jensen
01-05-08, 21:16
All M&P sights (factory) are the same height......front and rear.
John_Wayne777
01-05-08, 21:26
Excellent. I just placed an order for 3 Warren M&P rears. Now all I have to do is track down fronts.
My plan is to send all three pistols (perhaps just the slide on the full sized 9mm) to either Burwell or Bowie to have the front sights installed and to have trigger work done on the 9C and the .45.
Will the Hk.45 take the USP mags,or are they completly different ???
No. The HK45 takes slimmer mags to allow for a slimmer grip and will not take the USP45 mags.
The Dumb Gun Collector
01-05-08, 21:52
Yes, LAV's only grumble was about the look of the grip, nothing else. And lets remember, the people who have felt the grip have almost universally praised it, nomatter what their opinion of its looks. This is because master ergonomicist Karl Nill was brought in to contour the grip. HK brought in a group of badasses to develop this gun, LAV, Hackathorn, Nill, etc.
Excellent. I just placed an order for 3 Warren M&P rears. Now all I have to do is track down fronts.
My plan is to send all three pistols (perhaps just the slide on the full sized 9mm) to either Burwell or Bowie to have the front sights installed and to have trigger work done on the 9C and the .45.
Midway and Brownells sell the factory front night sight or you can call Novak or Trijicon and get one from them (Novak will install it).
QuickStrike
01-06-08, 07:35
I would probably get another M&P before a HK.
Mine in .45 is pretty sweet and seems like a sound design. The HK design would have to be significantly better for me to even consider them.
Then again, I might get "impulse buy attack" and buy one in a few months.... :o
John_Wayne777
01-09-08, 20:57
The Warrens are installed on my 9mms and so far I am really digging them. I was hoping the rear notch would be bigger, but there's still plenty of light around the front sight.
Unfortunately the slide on my .45 cracked as I tried to install the new Warren sight, so that one is going to have to go back to S&W.
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