Useful tool or bizzare and unproductive

[Stonebridge]

Actually not referring to my in-laws here...

Winter in NE Ohio normally brings enough snow for me to hike and ski the high-tension wire right-of-ways and keep me out of trouble. Since Al Gore invented global warming we've had nothing but cold miserable rain and I've been cooped up dry-firing and abusing credit cards to the point I fear my wife may become an active shooter. I digress...


I was on the treadmill in the wee small hours trying to get my daily 5k in a while back when I got either a good or potentially horrible idea:

Why not incorporate the treadmill into dry-firing practice?

It took some shuffling to get the treadmill pointed in a safe direction (and I'll still feel better when my Blade Tech training barrels get here) but what I ended up with was an arrangement by which I could practice dry-firing as well as (limited, granted) footwork.

Mind you, I see no need to invite disaster by actually running on the thing nor do I think it'd be worthwhile. But walking at slow to moderate speeds then dropping into what I refer to as the Tactical Duck Waddle, that low, heel-toe that steadies the front sight while doing dry fire dot torture seems like it might be worth something. Using the D/A HK or 92F really highlights the difficulty in shot placement while moving. I can't wait to use an SIRT.

Again, it's obviously limited but with people around there are limits on how much I can actually run around the house itself and safely practice moving and shooting. It's mono-directional and of course there's an argument that moving toward a target is not necessarily tactically sound though we've practiced it at every shooting class I've attended.

So here's your chance to cheer or crucify. What're your thoughts? Any ways to improve? I'd hate to quit doing it altogether because watching her klutz of a husband trying to walk and dry-fire certainly keeps my wife entertained. And maybe that's enough.

Best regards,
-'bridge

[Jim D]

A friend of a friend (master class USPSA) has done this for a long time.

I can't see it hurting.

[Safetyhit]

While a good idea overall, the issue of predictability regarding the reliable forward, steady and flat motion of the treadmill would not really replicate what shooting on the move would be like.

But you're on the right track (no pun intended), perhaps a shooting treadmill with bumps and periodic inclines and declines? No doubt it could be done, but how many would sell?

[Jim D]

While a good idea overall, the issue of predictability regarding the reliable forward, steady and flat motion of the treadmill would not really replicate what shooting on the move would be like.

But you're on the right track (no pun intended), perhaps a shooting treadmill with bumps and periodic inclines and declines? No doubt it could be done, but how many would sell?

Yeah, but that's like saying most shooting don't occur on well lit, flat even ranges with static targets so we shouldn't invest in range time.

You gotta take what you can take from everything... nothing replicates "the real world" 100% in training.

[Safetyhit]

Yeah, but that's like saying most shooting don't occur on well lit, flat even ranges with static targets so we shouldn't invest in range time.

You gotta take what you can take from everything... nothing replicates "the real world" 100% in training.


I agree it's a good idea. Just suggesting ways to perfect it, but that's probably over thought on my part.

[Stonebridge]

I think what would be ideal (barring inventing a treadmill that occasionally tried to buck you off or punch you in the junk) would be to set the incline/hill function to random. Unfortunately mine doesn't have that setting, the tilt function has to be done intentionally. But the ones at the gym are able to do that.

I've also considered recording, or having others record, training sessions that could be listened to on an mp3 player. Set up a set number of targets and a voice walks you through drills and commands. Could be good for live or dry-fire.

Anybody else have "oddball" drills or techniques they use to train?

-'b

[Armati]

I know a guy... he was a SFARTEC honor grad. He did this. And, he added pull-ups to the mix.

[Failure2Stop]

Personally, I try to avoid an exaggerated walk when SOM.
I think that it is more productive to get in tune with the movement of the gun when walking/running.
This can still be done on the treadmill, just extend the gun/blue gun at your normal sprinting/running/jogging paces and see what the sights are doing and how to mitigate/predict their movement.

[Stonebridge]

That's interesting F2S. I'm going to have to try it without modifying my stride and see how that works out. The most use I've had for moving and shooting thus far is at house-clearing classes and I've found that the quick heel-toe crouched walk allows me to move and track pretty smoothly. There's not much benefit in sprinting around the inside of a structure.

However, this would be of no practical use in a street-type engagement where moving very quickly to get off the X/find cover would be key. Any ideas on how to practice this type of movement? Maybe start the drill with the treadmill turning at a running speed, feet straddling it on the step-offs so you instantly go from standing still to running, draw and fire then pull the treadmill's safety rip-cord or punch the stop button? I don't want to get too involved with it though because it will always be a poor substitute for going out to my personal range and running SOM drills.

Another benefit may be just to use the 'mill to go on a flat-out run like some classes have people do before shooting to mimic the body's FoF response, and then do dot torture.

-'bridge

[Failure2Stop]

I think I may have oversimplified my thoughts on SOM.
There should be some alteration of stride, but the idea of lowering the center of gravity and the resulting more bent knee stride is different that the "Groucho/Duck Walk" weirdness that comes from replicating a visual without appreciating the purpose.
I am NOT saying that I think it is what you are doing, it's just one of those terms that make my skin crawl.

Be aware that a lot of SOM techniques are based off of team-based enclosure clearing where smooth entries through doorways/gaps are essential in bringing two shooters into the danger area simultaneously and smooth movement into/through the enclosure to minimize stack gaps and with the knowledge that a bunch of armed dudes are coming into the danger area with you, all with areas of responsibility and tasks.
Outside of that narrow area of application, being forced to shoot while moving will have to take into account the "why" of the movement in the first place. Rarely do I want to be moving while shooting (there are times that it is a good tactic, but I digress), but rather that I need to be somewhere else but a situation has arisen that forces me to shoot NOW, while heading to where I need to be.
Rarely do I want to be moving slowly, as it really doesn't do a damn thing to affect the threat shooter.

I think that you could get a lot out of running on the mill at various speeds and practice your draw, press, and first round break. Keeping the gun out and working on wobble zone appreciation/mitigation/timing is also time well spent.
I actually think that it could be more beneficial than doing it on the ground since you will be able to maintain target size throughout the entire process instead of closing down on the target, making it easier the closer you get.

Hmmm. . .
I'm about to check ebay for treadmills. . .

[QuickStrike]

Treadmill. Check.

Airsoft Glock 19. Pending... :D

[Stonebridge]

Yeah, the Tactical Duck-Walk is what we used in two-man room clearing drills. Totally separate from the more explosive movement used in lateral "holy s*** he pulled a gun on me, move/find cover and shoot!" techniques. Both have their place I suppose but I have no illusions Cleveland SWAT has me on speed-dial: I doubt I'll have need of the TDW anytime soon.

I kinda thought of picking up an Airsoft M&P but didn't know how viable of a training tool it was. I have a couple of crappy spring powered M9s that I use in place of Blue Guns because they're cheaper but I don't think those are good enough to substitute for much else. If I want to shoot indoors I normally take my .22s down to the trap in the basement.

-'b