Which EOtech suits my needs best?

[GLP Standard]

Im looking at (finally) buying an optic for my M4gery, and wanted to know which EOTech would suit my needs best? For the longest time I wanted an Aimpoint, but I've finally convinced myself that EOTechs will work for my purposes. Which EOTech do I want?

I don't need NV.

I prefer a shorter more compact optic (though if someone can convince me that the AA models aren't overwhelming and don't make the rifle look clunky, then Ill consider it)

Ill be running a BUIS with it, fixed front sight, and possibly later down the road a 3X magnifier (so the side mount buttons seem to be what I need

I really do prefer absolute cowitness, but Ive read 1/3 is more preferred (Ive never used either but Ive looked through an EOTech and Aimpoints as well, and don't really understand the benefits/downfalls of each)

Based on what Ive read, and everything I need it to do, the 516 will work for me best.

If you have any pics of an AA version on your rifle vs a shorter lithium version to convince me on size, that would be great.

EDIT: Almost forgot, the main purposes of the rifle at this point are home defense, though in the future I may or may not carry it with my local Sheriffs Office (volunteer Posse)

[a0cake]

the 516 will work for me best.

Until it doesn't. Which will be in about 8 hours when it shuts itself off while you're asleep in bed. Or while it's sitting in your patrol car. Or until you replace the batteries and it STILL doesn't work because it's an EOTECH and they enjoy breaking at the worst possible times.

You sound pretty set on buying one, and you have no reason to trust some random person on the internet...but I've used them. Lots of them (probably about 10 that I've been in personal control of and about 75 in the rest of the unit). The ones that I personally tried to use ALL failed on some level. Of course not every single EOTECH in the unit broke but I was not alone in my experience. Sometimes it was something as simple as the battery terminals corroding and coming loose (with an in line battery model it's a matter of when not if), where the fix is easy and simple. But sometimes they've just gone tits up and needed to be turned in.

Had a 553 start flickering then just shit the bed while in contact at less than 100m. Flipped the BUIS up and drove on. But I was pissed.

Before the 553's I saw God knows how many 512's take a shit.

Had a personally owned 557 AR223 where the terminals came loose allowing the batteries to get tossed around. One of them busted and destroyed the internals of the site.

Talk to anybody who's had these sights thrown on them by the supply system and you will hear similar stories.

If you absolutely HAVE to get an EOTECH get an XPS series. Put a wrap of tape around the 3V before putting it in the battery compartment to lessen the chance of the battery busting from impacting on an axis it wasn't designed to take impact on.

OR...get an Aimpoint like almost everybody who's anybody will recommend and be done with it.

[sandsunsurf]

Until it doesn't. Which will be in about 8 hours when it shuts itself off while you're asleep in bed. Or while it's sitting in your patrol car. Or until you replace the batteries and it STILL doesn't work because it's an EOTECH and they enjoy breaking at the worst possible times.

This. I've seen it in training, plinking, and real life gun use. Pretty bad when somebody covering the door you're about to approach has to flip up his BUIS.

[GLP Standard]

I wasnt aware there were such strong feelings against EOTech. I was aware of the EOTech vs Aimpoint argument, and knew people generally preferred Aimpoint, but didnt realize it went this far.

That being said, Im not opposed to Aimpoint. As I said earlier, I was dead set on Aimpoint until recently because, despite the fact they're more expensive than EOTech and you have to buy a mount for them, they have much much much longer battery life, and the Armed Forces seem to prefer them over EOTech.

Do you guys think a Comp ML2 would be a good alternative? Also, if I did decide to go Aimpoint, does anyone know a good (not $$$EXPENSIVE$$$) mount that allows absolute cowitnessing? I have an ARMS BUIS if that matters

[Hmac]

I wasnt aware there were such strong feelings against EOTech. I was aware of the EOTech vs Aimpoint argument, and knew people generally preferred Aimpoint, but didnt realize it went this far.

That being said, Im not opposed to Aimpoint. As I said earlier, I was dead set on Aimpoint until recently because, despite the fact they're more expensive than EOTech and you have to buy a mount for them, they have much much much longer battery life, and the Armed Forces seem to prefer them over EOTech.

Do you guys think a Comp ML2 would be a good alternative? Also, if I did decide to go Aimpoint, does anyone know a good (not $$$EXPENSIVE$$$) mount that allows absolute cowitnessing? I have an ARMS BUIS if that matters

Eotechs work fine. It's a good optic and in wide use in the military and in law enforcement. I have a few and they work great. No issues, no complaints. I would recommend the XPS/EXPS series as the transverse battery mount eliminates the contact issues that plagued the inline models, especially the 512. Of the Eotech lineup, I think you'd be best off with the OPMOD as sold at Optics Planet if you're going with lower third co-witness. That optic is basically an EXPS3 without the night vision.

Having said that, I think best bang for the buck is more likely to be the Aimpoint PRO. I have a Micro T-1 and a PRO, and while I don't really care for the T-1, the Aimpoint PRO is a very cost-effective and reliable optic and I've come to like it a lot. It's the same weight as the OPMOD, but you can find them for $400-$420 and that includes the mount.

[kmrtnsn]

I have an Eotech 552 on my duty rifle, that is how it is issued, I can't change it, I wish I could.

My personal M-4 has an R-1 from last years Midway deal.

My wife's personal M-4 has a T-1.

My AK is about to get a PRO.

My Benelli M4 shotgun is about to get an H-1.

See a trend here? Eotechs aren't good enough for my guns.

[Tactical Joke]

I own an Eotech XPS 2-0 and an Aimpoint T1.

If you're dead set on an Eo, get the XPS 2-0 or the EXPS 2-0. You'll need a riser if you want to do a lower 1/3 co-witness on the XPS, but the EXPS 2 doesn't require it and has the buttons on the side. The EXPS costs a little more.

The XPS 2-0 is affordable, short, and light. If you get it, like A0, I recommend you wrap just enough electrical tape around circumference of the battery so that it barely fits into the compartment. The batteries are relatively weak when you mount them transverse like EO has, and I've read that this should help keep the batteries from being damaged and leaking.

That said, If you want an optic with stupid long battery life--leave it on for years long--, ultra-light, dead nuts reliable, and was abused by LAV to a ridiculous level and still functioned, get the Aimpoint H1. I have the T1 since I may want to go SCUBA diving with it, but the H1 is just as awesome, and a little cheaper. Seriously, I abso-f'n-lutely love mine.

Bonus Info: I thought I would prefer the tube size, and reticle of the EO, but I don't... not by a long shot. It's one of those things that are much cooler in theory than in actual use, so I'm going to sell my EO and GG&G mount, and use the funds to buy a T1 from Grant.

[RPD03]

We had Eo-techs on all of our department rifles because that is what th previous admin choose without consulting anyone. We had numerous problems, everything from poa/poi shift to them just quitting at the worst possible time.
All have been replaced with Aimpoints, everything from M2 to PRO. For the money I would get the PRO, cost is good and comes with a mount. All our officers that carry their own rifle have switched to Aimpoint.

[GLP Standard]

Looks like I may just go Aimpoint instead. Thanks for the advice. One last question though, Ive read a lot about all their battery problems, etc, and read that the 511 series was very problematic and thats why they discontinued it, but I thought the Revision F was supposed to fix a lot, if not all of these issues? Do even the most recently 510 series and 550 series EOTechs have these issues everyone speaks of?

[mkmckinley]

If you're going to get an Eotech the EXPS is the only way to roll.

I've used Eotechs for years in the military and have come to slightly prefer Aimpoints. My main gripe with Eotechs are that the battery terminals wear out in older models. This issue isn't an issue with the newer EXPS and XPS models. However the 8 hour auto shutoff may still be an issue for some and not for others. It depends on how you expect to use the carbine. In something like a police cruiser I think you can make a strong case for an Aimpoint that can be just left on. I'd hate to grab my carbine and find I had no reticle when I needed it. In practice the auto shutoff has been a non issue for me as I've always adjusted the brightness at least once ever 8 hours. I know some very highly trained individuals that still prefer the Eotech and have a specific way of using the reticle.

[Tomac]

No-one is a bigger fan of the Eotech's reticle than me. However, I now use Aimpoints exclusively.
If you must go Eotech then, as previously mentioned, go w/the EXPS2-0.
Otherwise, consider the Aimpoint Pro for best value or keep an eye out for an Aimpoint Micro deal (PSA recently sold the H-1 w/mount for $459 shipped and Botach is currently selling the T-1 w/mount for $525 shipped).
JMHO...
Tomac

[SRT]

Check out the Aimpoint PRO, a great, always ready, always on, 2 MOA RDS. Nearly identical to the Comp M3, at a pricepoint of around $400. It comes standard with the QRP2 rail grabber mount, which is a very decent, serviceable mount.

Stay safe,

SRT

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

I'm have run eotech for about 7 years. I personally never had an issue with either of the 552 sights I owned. I would get one from the xps line.

[Evil Colt 6920]

Ive been abusing a 557 for just over 2 years now, never had a problem. Absolutely love the reticle. My opinion, the AA batery compartment doesnt seem clunky. Batteries are easiest to come by but use only lithium. Also, if your planning on a 3X down the road, fork up the extra cash for kit the MPO kit, save yourself some $$$

[BrigandTwoFour]

I've been running an XPS 2-0 on my HD/Game rifle for about six months now and probably 3000 rounds. It's on an ADM mount to give me lower 1/3.

It's still using the first battery I installed. It's never lost zero (which I can't say about my TR24) and has survived being dropped in the dirt and kicked a few times (accidentally, of course).

It's not an Aimpoint, I don't leave it on all the time to be ready at a moment's notice. But I've never had an issue with being able to turn it on quickly. If you go the EO route, I suggest replacing the battery periodically, just to be on top of things. And use good quality batteries.

For your purposes, the XPS 2-0 or the EXPS 2 would be perfect. The aimpoints would work just as well, though. I have uncorrected astigmatism in my right eye that makes the aimpoint reticle a little....funky.

[Hmac]

Again, I'll say don't overlook the Eotech OPMOD in shopping RDS. It's an exclusive build for OPtics Planet. Optics Planet labels it an EXPS2, but it's actually built on the EXPS3 chassis and is completely different than the EXPS2 that Eotech markets. It even has the EXPS3 night vision button, but it's located under the hood and the circuitry is disabled, thus the unit is cheaper. $490 all-in.

http://www.opticsplanet.net/l3-eotech-opmod-exps2-holographic-sights-limited-edition-red-dot-sights-exps2-0-opmod.html

http://images1.opticsplanet.com/1020-680-ffffff/opplanet-opmod-eotech-sight-1moa-reticle.jpg

I do like the Eotech reticle better than Aimpoint's 2 MOA dot (and certainly better than the T-1's 4 MOA dot), and battery life/auto shut-off is a total non-issue for my needs, but just on price alone I'd buy another Aimpoint PRO for $400 before buying another OPMOD for $490. I don't like the reticle that much better.

BTW, I do have the Eotech FTS magnifier. It works fine with my Aimpoint T-1 and PRO too.

[GLP Standard]

I just checked out the Aimpoint PRO's. What is the difference between those and the Comp M2/M3? They look identical, but the PRO is like $100 cheaper when you factor in buying a mount. I cant believe I didnt see them before

[Hmac]

I just checked out the Aimpoint PRO's. What is the difference between those and the Comp M2/M3? They look identical, but the PRO is like $100 cheaper when you factor in buying a mount. I cant believe I didnt see them before

Rumor has it that it is a Comp M3 using their older circuitry, the assembly machinery of which has already been costed out. Plus maybe a special deal from the mount mfgr, or maybe they get some kind of consideration for the PRO being law enforcement only. I've only seen speculation, nothing authoritative on the differences. All I know for sure is that it works well for me.

[Tomac]

I just checked out the Aimpoint PRO's. What is the difference between those and the Comp M2/M3? They look identical, but the PRO is like $100 cheaper when you factor in buying a mount. I cant believe I didnt see them before

Most significant difference is battery life. Pro has 30K hrs while the M3 has 50K hrs.
HTH...
Tomac

[Wake27]

I didn't know you could leave Aimpoint's on like that. Still, I don't plan on ever taking one over an EOTech unless mine start failing me, hasn't happened yet.

I got a 512 about 4-5 years ago before I was old enough for a rifle, so I used it for paintball. Obviously its not hardcore comp/mil use, but it took a respectable beating. In the last year and a half its been on my .22, until just about a month ago I threw it on my Noveske. I love the reticle, but that's all preference (hard to argue the MOA stuff though). I'm only about 500-600 rounds through my AR so we'll see how it holds up, but two weeks ago was the first time I had received the low battery indicator, ever. Not bad for 2 AA's. Also, since you mentioned the military, yes big Army uses Aimpoint's but the SOF world seems to use the 553 pretty heavily. I've never heard any complaints about them from the one guy I talk to pretty regularly who's been there (except to stay away from the N battery ones, they don't last at all), and in fact last I heard he's looking to pick up one of the XPS models for his personal use. Just throwing it out there.

Oh and one last thing, some people may argue it but if a threat is so immediate that you're worried about the ~1 second turn on of the EOTech vs the constant on of the Aimpoint, he's probably close enough that you'll hit him from the high ready alone.

[BrigandTwoFour]

Oh and one last thing, some people may argue it but if a threat is so immediate that you're worried about the ~1 second turn on of the EOTech vs the constant on of the Aimpoint, he's probably close enough that you'll hit him from the high ready alone.

Not to derail, but this is the thing that people really use as the arguing point between AP and EO.

The common argument is a piece of mind thing about always having the AP on and ready, and not having to use "fine motor control" to turn it on during a panic situation.

IMO, if someone is going to take the time and "fine motor control" to load & make ready, insert ear pro (as many here advocate), and manipulate the trigger correctly...then they can press the button.

And, like you said, if there isn't time to turn it on because they're already that close, then the whole unit works like a pretty good ghost ring if you need to.

[sandsunsurf]

Not to derail, but this is the thing that people really use as the arguing point between AP and EO.

The common argument is a piece of mind thing about always having the AP on and ready, and not having to use "fine motor control" to turn it on during a panic situation.

IMO, if someone is going to take the time and "fine motor control" to load & make ready, insert ear pro (as many here advocate), and manipulate the trigger correctly...then they can press the button.

And, like you said, if there isn't time to turn it on because they're already that close, then the whole unit works like a pretty good ghost ring if you need to.

I don't think the fine motor control is the issue. The OP says he might use the optic for LE. That means he may be grabbing the rifle out of the patrol car and running to engage an immediate threat. He's already doing several other things, he doesn't need to shoulder his rifle and not have a reticle! Or, as my last bad experience with a EOtech went down- somebody else covering the front door of a barricaded subject armed with a revolver, and his EOtech died. We were there for less than an hour before that happened.

For a team doing planned entries, they can replace the batteries before each entry and test their gear. Patrol officer, not so much. Home defense use would probably be fine- ranges are close and hopefully the house is hardened enough that there is some reaction time from the alert to the confrontation.

[Failure2Stop]

Damnit.
I hate these AP vs Eo threads.
They are both caipable optics.

HOWEVER
There are far more issues with the EoTechs than with Aimpoints.
Doesn't mean that every Eo will explode in your face, or that no AP has ever gone down, just that numbers are on the side of APs.

The "leave it on" caipability of the AP is not insignificant. There are several reasons why one might grab and rifle and have to immediately move to another position while being unable to positively turn it on and have the need to immediately employ it with more than torso precision.

A specific unit getting issued a specific piece of gear doesn't mean dick, and even less if your mission is different than their mission. Lots of items are adopted and subsequently dumped due to lack of performance, and when anything breaks it can be replaced immediately by their supply chain (which greatly reduces many concerns) and an endless supply of batteries. Lots of dudes that do this for a job prefer something other than the Eo, though there are quite a few that like the Eo.

Everything has the possibility of breaking; regardless of what you get be sure to get a good fixed BUIS, zero it, and train with it.