View Full Version : Check your 6.
Situational awareness is paramount for everyone and especially for police officers dealing with situations where there is an obviously hostile crowd. Don't get so absorbed in the task at hand that you forget about what's going on around you. I'm not posting this to be critical of the officer's actions but as a reminder to be ever vigilant concerning your surroundings.
Video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgCz3hR6Ggc
Personally, I think he should've kicked him harder.
Man Im glad I dont work in a city like that.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-05-12, 12:53
I don't watch videos that make me sign in.
I don't watch videos that make me sign in.
I didn't know you had to... 2 police officers are arresting a black guy in a predominately black neighborhood and some random white guy comes up and sucker punches 1 of the cops. Cops take'em down and arrest him as well.
Thank goodness that 3rd officer appeared on camera once it started going down.
At least in most prisons, they won't try to cuff a noncompliant person without first having overwhelming force: i.e. a bunch of other officers to keep the other inmates, err, I mean, citizens at bay.
Got to wonder what that idiot was thinking ?
Why police should be able to use weapons more freely :) when confronted by crowds
Sadly I think it's going to get worse before it gets better ?
pilotguyo540
01-05-12, 18:39
Those shit talking assholes were ready to riot, or at least talked a big game. I agree with Irish, he should have been kicked a lot harder.
What a dipshit.
Situational awareness is paramount for everyone and especially for police officers dealing with situations where there is an obviously hostile crowd. Don't get so absorbed in the task at hand that you forget about what's going on around you. I'm not posting this to be critical of the officer's actions but as a reminder to be ever vigilant concerning your surroundings.
Video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgCz3hR6Ggc
Personally, I think he should've kicked him harder.
FYI, the account has been pulled.:mad:
FYI, the account has been pulled.:mad:
Here ya go! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFFsWF3FoLI
Wow. There's a reason I moved out of that city.
Resisting arrest w/ violence. Battery on a police officer. Obstruction of justice. I can just see the information sheet now. :)
Why police should be able to use weapons more freely :) when confronted by crowds
?
careful what you wish for....
i may catch some flack for saying this but officer safety must take a back seat to freedom and due process in this country.
PdxMotoxer
01-06-12, 02:25
I hate that "we got that on tape" like they think they are going to be able to sue and make profit or whatever else.....
The cop that came in kicking did his job.
The guy that came in sucker punching/attacking the cop was crazy/drunk/mentally ill/so mad he could have killed/ thinking he was helping?? (truth is NOONE knows but him at that point in time)
The fact is he was so upset he rushed a cop from behind and started hitting him and needed to be stopped by any means possible.
and...
How many times does the punk with the cell cam need to be told to get back and yet he kept walking to them?
Just so much went wrong in that.. kinda like REAL situations not scripted t.v. and movies.
I hope this video is allowed in showing a jury how that guy rushed in on a cops back and tried to beat him or maybe worse.
careful what you wish for....
i may catch some flack for saying this but officer safety must take a back seat to freedom and due process in this country.
I hear ya :)
And agree :)
and really like wishing for world peace :)
Just often times in cases like this or others where crowds do this stuff I also think officer rights should not be violated by mob mentality ! As we all know can be dangerous
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-06-12, 02:50
I hear ya :)
And agree :)
and really like wishing for world peace :)
Just often times in cases like this or others where crowds do this stuff I also think officer rights should not be violated by mob mentality ! As we all know can be dangerous
I agree. This country could use another Boston massacre to get it fired up again. Jk Jk.
careful what you wish for....
i may catch some flack for saying this but officer safety must take a back seat to freedom and due process in this country.
Give an example of where officer safety would infringe on a person's freedoms or due process. I can't think of one but it is 0315.
careful what you wish for....
i may catch some flack for saying this but officer safety must take a back seat to freedom and due process in this country.
There is that.
But there is also disparity of force and the recognition that it constitutes deadly force.
The real issue here I suppose is what was the first guy being arrested for. If it was some BS and his rights were being violated then there is justification on the side of the crowd.
On the other hand if he did something but the locals were trying to impose their will over the law then they all become criminals, and potentially violent ones at that. If the first guy who dove in was more successful many in the crowd would have done the same.
There's no need for an example, since officer safety MUST do no such thing. The Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and legal codes are not suicide pacts, regardless of who's little red cookbook one wants to wave around over their head while they chant gross oversimplifications of complex societal issues.
It is also not outside of the bounds of possibility for both goals to be attained.
Splendid, now that THAT's settled....
Wanna take a SA for-example and soapbox it into something it's NOT....? Fine, just take your agenda somewhere you won't get your :internetballs: stomped flat.
the only thing that angers me more than the comments of the toolbag with the iphone...are the comments about hatred of the police state.
Speaking of "check 6", my friend made this arrest.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/busted-christmas
Suwannee Tim
01-06-12, 18:46
Your buddy arrested Merry Christmas! That's horrible! One of my buddies detained a couple of youngsters Laddie Xyz and Lassie Uvw going at it in the back of a car. I went to school with Laddie and later worked with Lassie. Cute couple.
Your buddy arrested Merry Christmas! That's horrible! One of my buddies detained a couple of youngsters Laddie Xyz and Lassie Uvw going at it in the back of a car. I went to school with Laddie and later worked with Lassie. Cute couple.
We went to HS together, he spent five in Tikrit. He was a Stryker stationed out of Wainwright. Unfortunately, he was the subject of an internal investigation and was arrested and no longer an officer.
Suwannee Tim
01-07-12, 07:33
It's a sad thing to see someone go awry like that. Couple of months ago my employer fired an engineer from a $90K per year job when he was caught trying to steal $60K of materials from the storeroom. He was trying to sell the materials to a contractor for $30K. He was having financial problems. I speculate his financial problems are more severe now. Live within your means. That is the first step to keeping your name out of the newspaper.
careful what you wish for....
i may catch some flack for saying this but officer safety must take a back seat to freedom and due process in this country.
You ever worked anywhere as a cop? The officers have the same rights as the public and part of the problem in that situation was not enough force was used. The attempts at arresting him were not even half speed. He should have been tied up in a pretzel, cuffed scooped up and taken away. The crowd is probably why this did not happen.
It would have been better if the situation ended quicker. The times I've had the most trouble in arrest situations is when I've tried to go half speed like these two did. It has a way of biting you in the ass.
You ever worked anywhere as a cop? The officers have the same rights as the public and part of the problem in that situation was not enough force was used. The attempts at arresting him were not even half speed. He should have been tied up in a pretzel, cuffed scooped up and taken away. The crowd is probably why this did not happen.
It would have been better if the situation ended quicker. The times I've had the most trouble in arrest situations is when I've tried to go half speed like these two did. It has a way of biting you in the ass.
Good point! Whenever there is a crowd in say an apartment complex we scoop them up and go elsewhere.
Voodoo_Man
01-07-12, 21:14
Glad the officers got out without injury. Sort of looked like two rookie officers attempting to make an arrest - just from the lack of hands on to someone they know is under arrest.
Two things that drew my attention quickly.
Large crowd to their rear on the corner - sure its normal but is there a reason why two officers have to go hands on with a guy who is not really "fighting" ? One of them may have been able to cover...
Also that kick to the face/head...where I work you get fired if not suspended instantly for that on camera.
Glad the officers got out without injury. Sort of looked like two rookie officers attempting to make an arrest - just from the lack of hands on to someone they know is under arrest.
Two things that drew my attention quickly.
Large crowd to their rear on the corner - sure its normal but is there a reason why two officers have to go hands on with a guy who is not really "fighting" ? One of them may have been able to cover...
Also that kick to the face/head...where I work you get fired if not suspended instantly for that on camera.
I was thinking the kick was good to go in perspective. A kick to the face does not sound good but he was justified. Even the kick looked half ass. It did not appear to have much effect or injure the supect. If you are justified in hitting someone hit them as hard as you can. It is much better to make one effective strike than half a dozen ineffective strikes.
Voodoo_Man
01-08-12, 09:06
I was thinking the kick was good to go in perspective. A kick to the face does not sound good but he was justified. Even the kick looked half ass. It did not appear to have much effect or injure the supect. If you are justified in hitting someone hit them as hard as you can. It is much better to make one effective strike than half a dozen ineffective strikes.
While I agree that a if you are going to go hands on you should do so with the intent to end the interaction quickly, but a kick in the head? I guess where I work we have just had back experiences with it so we stay away.
careful what you wish for....
i may catch some flack for saying this but officer safety must take a back seat to freedom and due process in this country.
The same type of incient happend to me once during an arrest. I punched him in the face and neck until he screamed for his momma. **** his due process.
While I agree that a if you are going to go hands on you should do so with the intent to end the interaction quickly, but a kick in the head? I guess where I work we have just had back experiences with it so we stay away.
Things are definitely regional and past experience/history have a huge impact on what is acceptable. Same for the video clip we are clearly only seeing a "snap shot" of what happened.
I had to hit someone on the head with the butt of my pistol once. It doesn't sound good until the whole situation is explained. There was a struggle over a long gun. A fellow officer had the suspect in a bear hug from behind. I had one hand on the muzzle and my pistol in the other hand.
I tried to re-holster and could not because of loss of fine motor control. We were using Safariland 070 holsters, since replaced by ALS holsters. I could not make a chest shot because I would likely hit my buddy behind her. My next thought was putting my pistol under her chin and shooting straight up through the head. I made sure my finger was outside the trigger guard and made a solid crack on the top of her head. She let go of the long gun. I went flying backwards and slammed into a wall and she was arrested. I then realized what I thought was a .410 pump was a BB gun. The other two guys thought it was a .22 pump. It was an unsucesful suicide by cop attempt.
Voodoo_Man
01-08-12, 18:45
Things are definitely regional and past experience/history have a huge impact on what is acceptable. Same for the video clip we are clearly only seeing a "snap shot" of what happened.
I had to hit someone on the head with the butt of my pistol once. It doesn't sound good until the whole situation is explained. There was a struggle over a long gun. A fellow officer had the suspect in a bear hug from behind. I had one hand on the muzzle and my pistol in the other hand.
I tried to re-holster and could not because of loss of fine motor control. We were using Safariland 070 holsters, since replaced by ALS holsters. I could not make a chest shot because I would likely hit my buddy behind her. My next thought was putting my pistol under her chin and shooting straight up through the head. I made sure my finger was outside the trigger guard and made a solid crack on the top of her head. She let go of the long gun. I went flying backwards and slammed into a wall and she was arrested. I then realized what I thought was a .410 pump was a BB gun. The other two guys thought it was a .22 pump. It was an unsucesful suicide by cop attempt.
I will agree that accurate articulation of the events, aided when possible by uncut/unedited video from a reliable source, may work out in the end but as I stated specific things are just frowned upon here.
Talk about hitting someone with your pistol, if you did that here you would definitely be losing time.
I think the kick to the head was force necessary to effect the arrest. It was not unreasonable and ended the struggle very quickly. I think you would be good to go here, even after the Chad Holley case.
I will agree that accurate articulation of the events, aided when possible by uncut/unedited video from a reliable source, may work out in the end but as I stated specific things are just frowned upon here.
Talk about hitting someone with your pistol, if you did that here you would definitely be losing time.
Even if it meant you didn't have to kill them?
I spoke to our State's Attorney about the call a few days later, he agreed with what I'd done.
Voodoo_Man
01-08-12, 21:05
Even if it meant you didn't have to kill them?
I spoke to our State's Attorney about the call a few days later, he agreed with what I'd done.
I have to check it again, but I believe it says we are not allowed to use the pistol as a blunt weapon. As for kicks to the head, like I said that is how it works here.
I hear ya. Our policy is not that specific but it does authorize us to use the force necessary. Our firearms instructor was all over me when he found out what happened. I understood just thought I made the right decision. Ten people could do it ten different ways and all be right. The incident happened very quickly from oh shit she is reaching for a gun to the end was quick. She did not even realize I hit her in the head until she was complaining during processing of a headache. That's when I told her why she had a headache.
careful what you wish for....
i may catch some flack for saying this but officer safety must take a back seat to freedom and due process in this country.
The officers were attempting to provide due process when they were feloniously interrupted.
Nobody has the freedom to interrupt an arrest or interfere with legal police action.
Any society which does not allow the protectors to protect themselves is not worth protecting.
My comments come from someone who has, thankfully, never had to deal with a situation like that and based on the assumption that the cops had legal justification for arresting the guy and weren't just being goofy.
IMO the guy who attacked the cop relinquished his right to due process and the privilage of bein taken into custody in a civil manner. The cops had every right to defend themselves and their buddies. Same as you and I. Kick to the head, probably not the best idea as IMO that can easily turn into a lethal force encounter, especially when the adrenalin is pumping. The guy got the job done though and I'm not really going to cry over some deuche getting his nose broken after he initiated the violence.
As far as the crowd goes. I see no reason to use weapons of any kind against them. They weren't being violent so to draw down on them or mace them would be a bad idea. They were rude and antagonizing and in general a bunch of asshats, but well within their rights to do so. The guy doing the video is also well within his rights to do so. If you're a public official out in public doing a public job you have no expectation for privacy. He didn't appear to be tryin to interfere and when told to get back he did. Could he have distanced himself more or stayed away sure. Could he have kept his cake hole shut while filming, definitely. However, I don't believe that he did anything illegal.
As for officer safety vs. civil rights. Putting on a badge isn't supposed to be a suicide pact for the officer. However it isn't supposed to be a rights surrender for the non badge wearing public. The majority of cops and population are able to efficiently find the balance where eah can do their job without hurting or interfering with the other. IMO using weapons (any be that firearms or even mace/gas) against a sidewalk full of people so you can arrest the guy in the middle of the street would not be a good way to keep that equation balanced.
Voodoo_Man
01-10-12, 14:29
^While I understand the merit of your opinion, I cannot help but to point out that when you are the target of a group of people who are becoming angry - or in this situation - watching their "boy" get arrested it can literally turn violent in a split second.
Many who I work with, as well as myself have been in these types of situations. Though deadly force was and will be a last resort, it is common practice to use spray on a crowd to keep them back or "off" you.
Just because you pull your weapon doesn't mean you have to use it. The threat of force is extremely effective. I'm testing the new taser x2 for our department and you can do a spark test without removing the cartridges, very effective in deterring a turd from using violence.
Voodoo_Man
01-11-12, 10:30
Just because you pull your weapon doesn't mean you have to use it. The threat of force is extremely effective. I'm testing the new taser x2 for our department and you can do a spark test without removing the cartridges, very effective in deterring a turd from using violence.
Doesn't it register in the systems memory and you have to do a report for the test?
Doesn't it register in the systems memory and you have to do a report for the test?
Yes every trigger pull is time/date stamp recorded.
Voodoo_Man
01-11-12, 13:44
Yes every trigger pull is time/date stamp recorded.
Even still a "spark test" is allowed by your dept?
Every time we pull the trigger we have to go do at least an hours worth of paperwork and then up to our range for it to be downloaded, so people try not to use it.
I understand about rules and all that, but if that had been my partner, or friend, I would not have hesitated to kick the guy in the head.
Can you imagine living with yourself if the BG drew a filet knife from under his coat and shivved your guy while you were doing the "half speed" (mentioned above) trying to un-ass your partner from his bear hug?
Yeah, I would take my unpaid leave like a man for that one. If they wanted to fire me over that particular incident, with that particularly well documented scenario, I would hope our union lawyer would eat them alive.
These are all hypothetical reactions, of course, as I am not an officer/trooper, but the "back your brother's play" has always followed me around since organized sports, friends going out, and all that. I've got your back; you've got mine.
Doesn't it register in the systems memory and you have to do a report for the test?
Ya this one records it even when you turn it on. We have to do a spark test everyday in roll call. It only gets downloaded if you use it on someone.
Even still a "spark test" is allowed by your dept?
Every time we pull the trigger we have to go do at least an hours worth of paperwork and then up to our range for it to be downloaded, so people try not to use it.
We don't have tasers. Wish we did. I tried a few years ago.
We don't have tasers. Wish we did. I tried a few years ago.
I'd rather not have one. The holster they issued us takes two hands to pull it. I honestly never to think to pull it.
Voodoo_Man
01-11-12, 19:15
I'd rather not have one. The holster they issued us takes two hands to pull it. I honestly never to think to pull it.
The guys who run them that I work with drop the issued holsters and get the blackhawk serpa holsters....easy in and out.
platoonDaddy
01-11-12, 19:58
"Middle Aged Man Attacks Bal..."
This video is no longer available because the YouTube account associated with this video has been terminated due to multiple third-party notifications of copyright infringement from claimants including:
"Middle Aged Man Attacks Bal..."
This video is no longer available because the YouTube account associated with this video has been terminated due to multiple third-party notifications of copyright infringement from claimants including:
PD, Irish reposted the valid link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFFsWF3FoLI
The guys who run them that I work with drop the issued holsters and get the blackhawk serpa holsters....easy in and out.
With X2 I'm testing they gave us a serpa and are issuing them to cadets. I'm gonna try and get a serpa from the taser office when I get my x26 back.
There is that.
But there is also disparity of force and the recognition that it constitutes deadly force.
The real issue here I suppose is what was the first guy being arrested for. If it was some BS and his rights were being violated then there is justification on the side of the crowd.
On the other hand if he did something but the locals were trying to impose their will over the law then they all become criminals, and potentially violent ones at that. If the first guy who dove in was more successful many in the crowd would have done the same.
Your average person doesnt know the law or have common sense... The frequent and preposterous demand of "let him/her go" of recent mobs is proof of this.
people at large just want their way and people love getting their way especially gettin away with things they think theyre entitled to. The game/decision theory would cite the philosophy of "why not?"
And the reason of 'why not' apprently needs to be refreshed every so often.
I dont want to seem insensitive to individual rights, but the problem is that there must strike a balance of pressures on both sides of the spectrum. Individual rights vs. collective order.
Even in laisez faire capitalism there is a reminder that an order exists. Punishment for poor behavior, often communal in nature, and dare i speculate, often more harsh. With the sanitization of modern punishment the refresher of disincetivization seems to be required for those who feel overly entitled.
I am surprised nobody's unleashed their google magic and found out more about the charges.
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