Glock "straight eight" sighting in

[FightingTupperware]

hello
so after installing my Heinie "strait eight" night sights on my G19 i shoot about 3" or 4" high at 12 yards...
has anyone ever shimmed there front sight so that POI would drop? :confused: buying a taller fornt sight would really hover because i already paid for night sights once.....

HELP!
THANKS!

[uwe1]

What is your experience level in shooting? If you're a novice, you might want to have someone who you know can shoot well double check that POA/POI.

What is the group size that you're putting up at 12 yards?

[FightingTupperware]

groups are consistently around an inch. i suppose having a second opinion could not hurt but off a bench, slow fire its hitting consistently high. its not me.

[nickdrak]

What are you using for your point of aim? The very top of the front sight post? The front dot covering your desired point of impact?

[uwe1]

What is your POA/POI at 20-25 yards?

I don't think there is any way to "shim" the front sight.

I ran into a similar problem when I installed some Warren Sevignys on a G17. I ended up purchasing a front sight with a taller height from Ameriglo.

Also, if you have another G19, you can try to see if the barrel will print lower, that is, if you haven't already purchased sights for that gun.

The Glock17 mentioned above had different POA/POI with two different barrels at 25 yards.

[FightingTupperware]

What are you using for your point of aim? The very top of the front sight post? The front dot covering your desired point of impact?

this is my groups (if im honest these are the better ones)
POI is half covering the lower red dot.

[FightingTupperware]

What is your POA/POI at 20-25 yards?

I don't think there is any way to "shim" the front sight.

I ran into a similar problem when I installed some Warren Sevignys on a G17. I ended up purchasing a front sight with a taller height from Ameriglo.

Also, if you have another G19, you can try to see if the barrel will print lower, that is, if you haven't already purchased sights for that gun.

The Glock17 mentioned above had different POA/POI with two different barrels at 25 yards.

ive shot at longer distances but never off a bench on paper.. so i dont know what its doing. i know its off though because i cant hit 8" steel plates... maybe i should take this thing out again today.

[elephantrider]

To establish a zero, you are going to want to shoot at 25yards on paper, just as if you were zeroing a carbine. You need to be as consistent as possible to get a good POI reference point, or you will be chasing your own tail.

- Shoot off of a bench/table using a rest or sandbags.
- Use the ammo that you want to have your 25 yd zero set for. I have noted a vertical shift of between 1-5 inches at 25 yds depending on bullet weight and velocity.
- Shoot 5-10rds for each group. It will give you a far better idea of where your true POI is for a given sight setting. 3 rounds will tell you very little at 25 yds. I use 10 rd groups to establish my POI.
- Use as precise an aming point as possible. It will cut down on the error in your POA/POI.

Once you have established a true POI for 25 yards you can determine how much, if any, you need to drift your rear sight and what height front sight you need.

There is a formula based on the amount of needed POI shift, needed sight shift, distance to target, and distance between font and rear sights. This will let you determine the distance you sights need to move. I found it on wikipedia in reference to adjusting iron sights.

If you don't like math then Ameriglo has the same formula worked into an online sight height calculator. Even if you aren't using Ameriglos, it will still tell you the distance your sights need to move (windage, or elevation) to get the desired POI shift.

http://www.ameriglo.net/sights/calculator

To answer your other questions:
- No, there is no way to shim a front sight. You would need to replace it with a taller front sight of the same make/model.
- I you are 3-4 inches high at 12 yards, I fear that you will be way high at 25 yards, but... there is no way to know for sure until you check your zero at 25 yds.

[FightingTupperware]

To establish a zero, you are going to want to shoot at 25yards on paper, just as if you were zeroing a carbine. You need to be as consistent as possible to get a good POI reference point, or you will be chasing your own tail.

- Shoot off of a bench/table using a rest or sandbags.
- Use the ammo that you want to have your 25 yd zero set for. I have noted a vertical shift of between 1-5 inches at 25 yds depending on bullet weight and velocity.
- Shoot 5-10rds for each group. It will give you a far better idea of where your true POI is for a given sight setting. 3 rounds will tell you very little at 25 yds. I use 10 rd groups to establish my POI.
- Use as precise an aming point as possible. It will cut down on the error in your POA/POI.

Once you have established a true POI for 25 yards you can determine how much, if any, you need to drift your rear sight and what height front sight you need.

There is a formula based on the amount of needed POI shift, needed sight shift, distance to target, and distance between font and rear sights. This will let you determine the distance you sights need to move. I found it on wikipedia in reference to adjusting iron sights.

If you don't like math then Ameriglo has the same formula worked into an online sight height calculator. Even if you aren't using Ameriglos, it will still tell you the distance your sights need to move (windage, or elevation) to get the desired POI shift.

http://www.ameriglo.net/sights/calculator

To answer your other questions:
- No, there is no way to shim a front sight. You would need to replace it with a taller front sight of the same make/model.
- I you are 3-4 inches high at 12 yards, I fear that you will be way high at 25 yards, but... there is no way to know for sure until you check your zero at 25 yds.

nice post!
thank you that is some good info. i should get a chance to shoot tomorrow. ill try some different ammo as well. thanks for your insight everyone!

[FightingTupperware]

0060 is the first and best group of my day using federal cheap stuff, glock19
0061 is my reloads... pretty pathetic... . glock 19
0065 is federal cheap. useing glock 17
0066 looking done range over my 17. 25yards


all shots were fired form 25yards (paced off) from a bench with bags.
i have something going on with my reloads.... obviously... that sucks. but good to know.
oddly both guns shot high... my 17 less than my 19 but still high.
both guns have Heinie sights on them. (my 19 has the night sights and the 17 is just plain.

i can mesure the hight of the sights latter this might give someone perspective.

[uwe1]

Ok, so I am assuming that you are lining up the top of the front sight with the top of the rear sight and trying to place that little square just above the front sight blade.

If I remember correctly, most of these sights were designed with somewhat of a 6:00 hold in mind. I've read that Warren Tactical sights were designed to be 2-3" high at 20 yards. For me, using a B8 target, I have to line up the sights and put the bottom of the circle right at the tip of the front sight blade to drop the shots into the 10 ring.

I know you're using Heine's, but the Heine sights have a similar height ratio to the Warrens.

One of my Glocks had a drop-in KKM barrel, that required a .240 height front sight to get the POI 3" above POA at 25 yards. The standard Warren front sight is .215 and I was hitting at the top of the B8 circle while aiming at the very bottom, almost 6" high.

I got the different front sights from Ameriglo:
http://www.ameriglo.net/catalog/sights/pistol-sights/glock/night-sights/front-sights

[FightingTupperware]

Ok, so I am assuming that you are lining up the top of the front sight with the top of the rear sight and trying to place that little square just above the front sight blade.

yes yes and..... i was always taught: "lining up the top of the front sight with the top of the rear sight" but to put the sight at half mast (or covering half of the dot)
so that would defiantly change things...
but at this point i can retrain or buy a taller front sight. ill take the pain out on my wallet.
i guess that solves things, if Heine has designed a nonadjustable sight to be used a specific way then ive been training wrong or at least for a different type system.
well at least nothing is broken!
everyone seems to be happy with ameriglo?

[uwe1]

yes yes and..... i was always taught: "lining up the top of the front sight with the top of the rear sight" but to put the sight at half mast (or covering half of the dot)
so that would defiantly change things...
but at this point i can retrain or buy a taller front sight. ill take the pain out on my wallet.
i guess that solves things, if Heine has designed a nonadjustable sight to be used a specific way then ive been training wrong or at least for a different type system.
well at least nothing is broken!
everyone seems to be happy with ameriglo?

Just remember that if you get a taller front sight, in order to achieve perfect POA/POI at 25 yards, you are very likely going to have shots that are closer, like 3-12 yards, impact LOWER than your POA.

EDIT:
I don't see any perceivable difference in the quality and finish of the Warren front sight versus the taller Ameriglo front sight I purchased. They are easily interchangeable and if I didn't know better, I would think that the same company made them.

I don't think the Ameriglo fronts are serrated, so I don't know if that would drive you crazy to have a serrated rear and a non-serrated front.

[Ptrlcop]

Fwiw I have heinies on both a g22 and 17. Both required taller front sights to reach zero. I think this is a pretty consistent issue with glocks. Most people just don't notice because they don't shoot out to 25.

And iirc if you buy a set of sights from heinie they will sell you a taller front at a discounted rate.

[SmokeJumper]

No real experience with the Hienie sights myself, but I did find some info. on their site regarding your issue, thought help.
Glock Front Sight Installation Tool

Warning: Using a Glock factory supplied sight pusher to install Heinie's Glock sights can potentially ruin the Heinie Glock rear sight. The factory sight pusher typically causes the sight to start in the dovetail on an angle, compromising the "press" fit of the Heinie sight.

Heinie Specialty Products, Inc. has done extensive testing on all Glock models with many different types and brands of ammunition so we could offer one set of sights that will work for all Glock pistols. Occasionally we have found that the following models: G-19, G-22, G-34 & G-35 may shoot 2 1/2-3 inches high. This may be due to manufacturing tolerances of the pistol, the type of ammunition fired, or the individual shooting the pistol. In order to better serve our customers, we offer part number #323, 324, 326, & 327 to change impact. If you have a problem you may purchase these sights directly from Heinie Specialty Products, Inc. at a reduced price providing you can send us a copy of your original invoice showing the purchase within 30 days of a complete set of Heinie Glock Sights. Glock SlantPro Sights are available in our standard black oxide finish or with the option of a Black Teflon finish. Be sure to choose your finish option when ordering. All new production Heinie Glock Sights have a set screw added to further lock the sight into the dovetail. The Glock sights have an interference fit dovetail with a crush slot to conform to the irregular shaped Glock dovetail. The set screw also is designed to have an interference fit, so once it is tightened, the sight will not come loose in extreme hard use situations.

[FightingTupperware]

"Occasionally we have found that the following models: G-19, G-22, G-34 & G-35 may shoot 2 1/2-3 inches high. "

thats straight from Heinie's site. but its been alot longer than 30 days since i bought the sights and the recept is long gone.
well do you think they will be at SHOT i could go visit them :D