*&^&*!* Online gun sales

[Striker5]

I just did my first online purchase today. I was nonplussed when I realized that I have to undergo the same checks etc as if I were buying over the counter. I thought it was like a private sale, which provides me with the level of anonymity I look for in gun purchases these days. The guy i got it from runs a gun store - is that the reason? Or would I have to jump through hoops on the FFL end regardless?

Everyone's probably saying "well duh" but I thought that online sales were person to person and the FFL holder just recieved the item for a fee. I guess I need to start buying guns out of the newspaper. :mad:

ETA: I will also have to go through all the Nazi tomfoolery required to get a handgun in Onslow County, which makes every effort to make it difficult and annoying for Marines to purchase pistols.

[rob_s]

well duh!:p

It's a federal law and all that, don'tcha know. Has to do with crossing state lines. Private party, dealer, whatever.

[Business_Casual]

Well, duh! It's supposed to stop anyone from ever assasinating JFK or RFK again! See how well it's worked?

M_P

[whitetiger7654]

It depends on the sale and your states laws. Here in florida if I find a private person online who is selling their gun I can buy it from them without all the checks and such. But we both have to be residents.

[Dave L.]

In Michigan you can buy a gun (shotgun or rifle) out of the classified adds in the paper and don't have to register it. You may want to though just to make sure it's not hot.

[Failure2Stop]

I will also have to go through all the Nazi tomfoolery required to get a handgun in Onslow County, which makes every effort to make it difficult and annoying for Marines to purchase pistols.

Come on hombre, it's tedious, but not painful.
Is Flatwoods still open?

[Kurt Reifert]

In Michigan you can buy a gun (shotgun or rifle) out of the classified adds in the paper and don't have to register it. You may want to though just to make sure it's not hot.


In Michigan, there is no requirement for long gun registration.
Handgun registration is required no matter where it comes from.

[Robb Jensen]

I just did my first online purchase today. I was nonplussed when I realized that I have to undergo the same checks etc as if I were buying over the counter. I thought it was like a private sale, which provides me with the level of anonymity I look for in gun purchases these days. The guy i got it from runs a gun store - is that the reason? Or would I have to jump through hoops on the FFL end regardless?

Everyone's probably saying "well duh" but I thought that online sales were person to person and the FFL holder just recieved the item for a fee. I guess I need to start buying guns out of the newspaper. :mad:

ETA: I will also have to go through all the Nazi tomfoolery required to get a handgun in Onslow County, which makes every effort to make it difficult and annoying for Marines to purchase pistols.

NC has some weird laws I lived there for a few years in the the early 90's. My dad still lives in Onslow Co (Jax NC). If you're buying any gun from and out of state person it HAS to go to an FFL in your state (NC) per FEDERAL law.

I know you have to get the permit to purchase in NC for handguns from your local Sheriffs office. If you however are a NC CCW/CHP holder then you are exempt from the permit to purchase.

[markm]

I thought it was like a private sale, which provides me with the level of anonymity I look for in gun purchases these days.


I'll never understand this mentality. I've heard this reasoning for not wanting to join the NRA, or buy an NFA item, etc.

[C4IGrant]

I just did my first online purchase today. I was nonplussed when I realized that I have to undergo the same checks etc as if I were buying over the counter. I thought it was like a private sale, which provides me with the level of anonymity I look for in gun purchases these days. The guy i got it from runs a gun store - is that the reason? Or would I have to jump through hoops on the FFL end regardless?

Everyone's probably saying "well duh" but I thought that online sales were person to person and the FFL holder just recieved the item for a fee. I guess I need to start buying guns out of the newspaper. :mad:

ETA: I will also have to go through all the Nazi tomfoolery required to get a handgun in Onslow County, which makes every effort to make it difficult and annoying for Marines to purchase pistols.


Let's say that you bought the gun off of gun broker from a private citizen. Unless he is in your home state and you can do a face to face sale, the gun has to go through an FFL dealer.

Since the seller was an FFL dealer, he HAS to transfer the weapon either to your local FFL or have you fill out a 4473 for a face to face transfer.

The only way that an FFL dealer does NOT have to do a 4473 is IF the weapon he is selling was bought PRIOR to him having his FFL. Most FFL's I know (this includes me) will still run the 4473 on you.


C4

[Striker5]

I'll never understand this mentality. I've heard this reasoning for not wanting to join the NRA, or buy an NFA item, etc.

My reasons are simple. The idea of running every retail firearms purchase through a federal database is insane. I understand that they are supposed to purge these records at a certain interval. I recall (can't quote you) reading an article about when Ashcroft took over as AG, they found that the previous office holders had NOT been flushing it. Maybe it was simple oversight, but it strikes me as a system that is ripe for abuse by leftists (or anyone). Who checks it? I don't. You don't. We would riot in the streets if there was an involuntary gun registration. And it seems to me that we have enacted a system that lends itself to do just that, with NRA support no less.

The bulk of my recently acquired guns have been purchased w/ the instant check, so I am no stranger to the procedures. What I have done is try to purchase SOME guns person to person, reducing the possibility of future interference.

I don't live in a bunker, listening for the black UN helicopters or buying into conspiracy theories. However, I have a knowledge of how governments work, how leftists work, and how bureaucracies work. And the instant check system strikes me as a short-sighted political compromise that would be a tool in the hands of a leftist government bureacracy.

I am amazed how most gun owners seem to credulously accept this w/o a hint of uneasiness. If you know something that I don't that transforms the federal instant check into a good idea, I would like to hear it.

[Striker5]

Come on hombre, it's tedious, but not painful.
Is Flatwoods still open?

I am carrying on my Alabama permit. Having to mail forms back to PD's in towns where you have lived strikes me as a pain. They just don't want every Lance Corporal tooling around Jacksonville packing a gun. I can see where they're coming from, but it is really ridiculous. Once you get the permit, it's good to go though, evidently.

Flatwoods is indeed open, unfortunately. They really need some competition. They are the only game in town for shooting long guns and some of the staff act like they know it. When were you here?

[markm]

I look at it like this....

Gun owners should be like the gays and minorities. They're not in the closet trying to go unnoticed.... They're loud and annoying.

The anti gun movement would like nothing more than to have gun owners affraid to be known.

In my eyes, People who hide gun ownership are OK with gun control and eventual seizures because they're not on any "lists". So it's OK if they take everyone elses guns.... They have their's hidden. It's really a selfish mentality.... Like HOARDING Mags. People who hoard mags are already accepting defeat and in my opinion boardering on WANTING another ban.

[Failure2Stop]

Having to mail forms back to PD's in towns where you have lived strikes me as a pain. They just don't want every Lance Corporal tooling around Jacksonville packing a gun. I can see where they're coming from, but it is really ridiculous. Once you get the permit, it's good to go though, evidently.

Are you talking about CCW permit or pistol purchase permit?

If it is for the purchase permit then there are new rules since I was there. Was not aware that you now have to send forms to former residences just to purchase. BS indeed.



Flatwoods is indeed open, unfortunately. They really need some competition. They are the only game in town for shooting long guns and some of the staff act like they know it. When were you here?

I never minded Flatwoods, but who knows what changed with them as well.

Haven't been in Jacksonhole for years. Actually kinda miss it. Changed career path some time ago. Did a TAD trip down there about a year ago, shouldn't be suprised that things changed I guess.

[Striker5]

I look at it like this....

Gun owners should be like the gays and minorities. They're not in the closet trying to go unnoticed.... They're loud and annoying.

The anti gun movement would like nothing more than to have gun owners affraid to be known.

In my eyes, People who hide gun ownership are OK with gun control and eventual seizures because they're not on any "lists". So it's OK if they take everyone elses guns.... They have their's hidden. It's really a selfish mentality.... Like HOARDING Mags. People who hoard mags are already accepting defeat and in my opinion boardering on WANTING another ban.

I am not hiding my gun ownership and I agree w/ most of your sentiment. The fact that I believe in taking some precautions against government abuse does not mean that I support everyone else getting thrown under the bus. My position and your position are not mutually exclusive. I was a kid or a teenager when this went through (b. 1977) and learned more about it as I got older and was buying more guns. I missed the fight/debate or whatever when it went through. My understanding is that the NRA pushed this is some sort of compromise w/ some Brady foolishness. It is a dumb idea and I can see gunless conservatives and Orwellian democrats thinking it is a stroke of genius.
But it is presupposing that govt is always good, has your rights vs your best interests in mind, and will do what it says it will do.

the trouble is that once its in the books it is VERY difficult to get rid off.

That is why I am, in part, absenting myself from this process.

[Striker5]

Are you talking about CCW permit or pistol purchase permit?

If it is for the purchase permit then there are new rules since I was there. Was not aware that you now have to send forms to former residences just to purchase. BS indeed.



I never minded Flatwoods, but who knows what changed with them as well.

Haven't been in Jacksonhole for years. Actually kinda miss it. Changed career path some time ago. Did a TAD trip down there about a year ago, shouldn't be suprised that things changed I guess.

As I understand it the two are one and the same. When I was in VA, you had to get a letter from your command and go through a normal background/instant check for a pistol purchase. In CLNC, You have to get a letter from your command clearing you fro X number of pistol purchases (max is 5). You then go to the sheriff's office and get a stack of paperwork. One is a form you fill out for them, the other is a form you copy and mail to police departments in former places of residents going back TEN YEARS. You have to have the aforementioned letter from your CO and proof of residence. A barracks doesn't count. You also have to get an interview w/ the sheriff, as I understand it.

I kept the page that had a list of states w/ reciprocity.

Jacksonhole. I love it! What can I say, the natives are still trashy, young Marines are raising Cain, their wives are basket cases and training is still ocurring! In other words, you aren't missing anything.;)

[the1911fan]

According to the "FBI/NICS Operations Report May 2003," between November 1998, when NICS was implemented, and December 31, 2002, NICS has processed a total of 35,938,513 background checks. A total of 281,883 firearm transfers were denied. Seventy-one percent of the background checks were completed in just a few minutes.

Of the 281,883 denials I wonder how many were charged with attempt to acquire a firearm as a "prohibited" individual? I wonder how many of the 281K denials purchased firearms illegally after being denied?

Nearly 36 Million checks over 4 years

.0078% denied

[Striker5]

If the system works as it was designed to, that's great. My issue is not with its effectiveness, however. It's about its potential for abuse.

[Failure2Stop]

Striker-
Not to clutter your thread, but here is what I had to do when I was there, of course it may no longer be applicable-

CO sign-off
Go to Sherriffs Dept
Get fingerprinted
Fill out form
Submit to office worker
Wait 7 to 10 days
Call to check progress of permit to purchase
When ready, show up with cash in hand, I think it was $5 per permit, probably wrong.
Use permit to purchase at any Onslow County (I think) gun emporium
Permit is valid for a few years

ETA- The PX used to have all the paperwork you needed, may still.

This permit to purchase does not permit you to carry a CCW.

CCW permit sounds like the process you are referring to. IIRC the CCW bypasses the permit to purchase requirement, but once again, I could be mistaken.

Face to face is definately less of a PITA.

[scottryan]

I look at it like this....

Gun owners should be like the gays and minorities. They're not in the closet trying to go unnoticed.... They're loud and annoying.

The anti gun movement would like nothing more than to have gun owners affraid to be known.

In my eyes, People who hide gun ownership are OK with gun control and eventual seizures because they're not on any "lists". So it's OK if they take everyone elses guns.... They have their's hidden. It's really a selfish mentality.... Like HOARDING Mags. People who hoard mags are already accepting defeat and in my opinion boardering on WANTING another ban.


Exactly.

[RogerinTPA]

I look at it like this....

Gun owners should be like the gays and minorities. They're not in the closet trying to go unnoticed.... They're loud and annoying.

The anti gun movement would like nothing more than to have gun owners affraid to be known.

In my eyes, People who hide gun ownership are OK with gun control and eventual seizures because they're not on any "lists". So it's OK if they take everyone elses guns.... They have their's hidden. It's really a selfish mentality.... Like HOARDING Mags. People who hoard mags are already accepting defeat and in my opinion boardering on WANTING another ban.

Yeah until the DEMS get back in office and another anti weapons ban comes down the pipe, then u will be FUBAR and at the mercy of any gun store owner jacking the price up to and beyond 500%. Your faith in the average American to vote, let alone vote wisely, for a presidential candidate is admirable, but a little Disneyland. Its a little like saying "I won't arm myself because no stranger would bash my head in with a lead pipe and rob me blind, because if I did, I'd be accepting defeat and lose faith in my fellow man." We have, on average, less than 50% voter turn out for registered voters. Anyone recall from the last AWB, gun shop owners taking a magazine out of box from a gun and selling guns with just one mag then charging you a gazillion dollars to buy the mag that was suppose to come with your gun in the first place? I call stocking up on essentials (Ammo, Mags, spare parts, (Food & water as we do here in FL)) to a certain degree"Smart". Just make sure that you VOTE your conscious and choose wisely during the next election. The "Faith" I leave to you.