View Full Version : 2nd course with same instructor or try new instructor
kingkroupa
01-09-12, 19:46
So last summer I took a pistol course with Jason Falla from Redback One and really enjoyed it and felt like I got a lot out of it. I'm trying to plan out my year and I have the chance to either take another course with Redback One or go to a class with Mike Seeklander. I'm trying to work it out where I can make it to both of them but not sure if it is going to work out.
So what are y'alls thoughts? More time with an instructor I know or try out a different one?
Only my opinion but since you had your first class (I assume 2 day entry level) with a reputable instructor, it will benefit you to take another class or two from the same source so you can get established with one system of techniques.
If you go to a different instructor for your second course, he will almost definitely teach some things differently. This is actually a major positive for a more experienced shooter but can become a bit confusing for the new shooter.
Once you have the fundamentals, basic manipulations, and malfunction clearance down, seek out other qualified instructor. By this point you have some idea as to how your weapon system works for you and you can make more qualified decisions regarding differing techniques and procedures.
Either way, you are going to be fine so long as you choose qualified instructors. I just think one way is easier given your circumstances. Good luck.
Take the class with Mike Seeklander because I suspect Seeklander's class will have a different focus that will compliment what you learned last year. Seeklander will make you a better shooter.
So what if Falla likes to slingshot after slide lock and Seeklander teaches to use the slide release, or whatever it is that people here think is going to put a huge crink in your training. That's a non-issue. There's so much more to shooting than that.
(FWIW and full disclosure -- I'd recommend Seeklander over Falla in general for the pistol based on what I know about both and my philosophy about learning to shoot. I'm sure plenty here would disagree with that.)
Is it the same class or a different one?
kingkroupa
01-09-12, 23:07
The course I took before was Redback One's Basic Pistol course, the class I have the opprtunity to take from them now is their Tactical Pistol course. The Seeklander course is his Personnel Protection course, of course I just found out that it is now full... but I'm on the waiting list...
Personally, I would look at each instructor's curriculum and see which one fits towards your overall objective if you have one. For instance, there was one class in 2009 i was hesitant on attending but a friend was attending so I had to go. There was a lot of classroom portions and while on the range, a lot of verbal judo. The class didn't help in making me a better more accurate shooter, but opened up my eyes in civilian shooting situations. Moral of the story is, if I wanted to become a better shooter, I wouldn't have taken this class. As of right now, I feel like I'm a better a shooter and wouldn't mind taking that class again. But in 2009, I thought it was a waste of money.
Obviously, I would be bias if I had to tell you one or another. At first, I wasn't going to respond to this thread because of that. But I can't help but remember the money I spent in tuition, ammo, time off, travel, accommodations, and food and really didn't take away as much as i wanted from the class.
kingkroupa
01-09-12, 23:25
Personally, I would look at each instructor's curriculum and see which one fits towards your overall objective if you have one. For instance, there was one class in 2009 i was hesitant on attending but a friend was attending so I had to go. There was a lot of classroom portions and while on the range, a lot of verbal judo. The class didn't help in making me a better more accurate shooter, but opened up my eyes in civilian shooting situations. Moral of the story is, if I wanted to become a better shooter, I wouldn't have taken this class. As of right now, I feel like I'm a better a shooter and wouldn't mind taking that class again. But in 2009, I thought it was a waste of money.
Obviously, I would be bias if I had to tell you one or another. At first, I wasn't going to respond to this thread because of that. But I can't help but remember the money I spent in tuition, ammo, time off, travel, accommodations, and food and really didn't take away as much as i wanted from the class.
I'm glad you responded, you made a very good point. Luckily both of the classes I'm looking at seem fairly well tailored for my goals. I don't feel like either options is the wrong one and I really hope I can work it out to go to both of them.
I'd say take the one with Falla. I think it'd be most beneficial since first you took the basic, and then would be taking the tactical class without any other instructors in between. Then after that maybe try someone different.
Experience as many instructors, methods, and techniques as you can.
You may find some more to your liking, or more pertinent to your context and mission than others. That's okay, and going back for more isn't a bad thing. However, don't become a disciple. While their particular methods and techniques may be good, no one has all of the answer.
The course I took before was Redback One's Basic Pistol course, the class I have the opprtunity to take from them now is their Tactical Pistol course. The Seeklander course is his Personnel Protection course, of course I just found out that it is now full... but I'm on the waiting list...
Personal or personnel, there is a big difference.
kingkroupa
01-10-12, 00:10
Personal or personnel, there is a big difference.
personal.... i'm a horible speller:bad:
So what if Falla likes to slingshot after slide lock and Seeklander teaches to use the slide release, or whatever it is that people here think is going to put a huge crink in your training. That's a non-issue. There's so much more to shooting than that.
We're gonna have to work on your reading comprehension skills buddy. I clearly stated that the OP would be fine either way.
However, this is not a "non-issue" for a beginning shooter. There IS so much more to shooting, as you say, and different instructors handle those things somewhat differently. My point was that it may be beneficial for the OP to stay consistent while he gets a system down and then spend the rest of his life tweaking and improving things to his needs/preferences by learning from a variety of sources.
personal.... i'm a horible speller:bad:
No worries, that is what I thought. Good luck. I stand by my opinion but whichever way you go, you'll learn a lot.
Edit to add: Only reason I asked is if it was "personnel," my recommendation would have been much more decisive.
personal.... i'm a horible speller:bad:
yeah, when you posted "Personnel Protection" I was like Whao! I might be out of my league here. lol
yeah, when you posted "Personnel Protection" I was like Whao! I might be out of my league here. lol
Yeah, got me thinking the same thing for a second :blink:
We're gonna have to work on your reading comprehension skills buddy. I clearly stated that the OP would be fine either way.
However, this is not a "non-issue" for a beginning shooter. There IS so much more to shooting, as you say, and different instructors handle those things somewhat differently. My point was that it may be beneficial for the OP to stay consistent while he gets a system down and then spend the rest of his life tweaking and improving things to his needs/preferences by learning from a variety of sources.
No need to be defensive when someone disagrees with you. I know what you wrote. Regardless of the wavering "you'll be fine either way" that you tacked on at the end, you wrote that the OP (who you branded as a new shooter) will be confused by a different shooting "system."
If you had big problems learning to use the slide lock a year after learning the slingshot or whatever it is you think is so confusing, you have bigger issues than this board can fix. It is a non-issue.
Again, different 'systems' are no reason not to take a class from a different instructor and the OP will be fine. Look at the new instructor and see if he will complement and add to what you already know. In this case, I'm confident Seeklander will.
I'd stay with RB1 for this one as a follow on to complete the package of what they have to offer then consider branching out.
Failure2Stop
01-10-12, 10:00
Personally, I would look at each instructor's curriculum and see which one fits towards your overall objective if you have one.
I absolutely agree.
And if you do not have a direction for your progression, then I would say to go with someone different for a second class. It helps open persepctive and won't hurt your fundamental marksmanship.
No credible instructor is going to be upset if you train with another company to expand your appreciation of the subject. Sometimes seeing something completely different will solidify what an instructor was saying. Sometimes it will put another perspective in mind. Diversity is a good thing.
What have you been doing since the first class?
I think whether or not you are ready for what may be a conflicting methodology you need to have what you've already learned down pat. If you're one of these guys that never shoots outside of classes then I would try to stick with one methodology at least for awhile.
I once took a class with a group that was almost entirely used to one instructor, and when the new instructor started saying things contradictory many of the regulars started with the hew and cry. Many of them ONLY ever shoot in the class environment, and so weren't used to the idea that there was more than one way to do something.
I doubt that there is anything in Falla's curriculum that is so outlandish as to be "wrong", but I bet there are some things that are different than your other potential instructor. If you aren't well versed in the first way, introducing variation may cause confusion, and you're not really in a position to evaluate the new (to you) technique vs. what you've already learned.
No need to be defensive when someone disagrees with you. I know what you wrote. Regardless of the wavering "you'll be fine either way" that you tacked on at the end, you wrote that the OP (who you branded as a new shooter) will be confused by a different shooting "system."
If you had big problems learning to use the slide lock a year after learning the slingshot or whatever it is you think is so confusing, you have bigger issues than this board can fix. It is a non-issue.
Again, different 'systems' are no reason not to take a class from a different instructor and the OP will be fine. Look at the new instructor and see if he will complement and add to what you already know. In this case, I'm confident Seeklander will.
My God, I see that reading comprehension is not your issue. Apparently your problem runs deeper than that.
"... but can become a bit confusing for the new shooter" is NOT the same thing as "will be confused by a different shooting "system."
Also, there was nothing wavering about my reply. The tone of my reply was that it isn't going to be life and death either way with qualified instructors but there may be some benefit to doing things one way rather than another.
I branded the OP as a beginner because he asked a beginner question and revealed that he had taken a basic level class. If my assumption based on this was wrong then he could have corrected me as his info and the question itself make this a reasonable assumption.
As to your silly statement about big problems I would have had if i couldn't learn this or that after a year. I was never in the OP's situation. I did not learn from a top tier instructor from the get go and had to break bad habits for years to get to where I am today. Since he is not learning bad habits from the top tier instructor he used for a basic class, I see no harm in reinforcing what he has learned and correcting bad habits he may have developed on his own over the year (in his own practice) before "playing the field." He has all of his life to study from different instructors.
My answer was of a conceptual nature, as many others are, since I have not taken classes from either instructor yet. I would like to know if you have taken classes from each instructor since you have such a hard-on about one instructor over the other.
Seriously guy, I don't know what is wrong with you but I have looked through some of your past posts and there is clearly no benefit to arguing with you (for anyone). I'm out, you can keep on with what you do.
I meant to add that I agree with with Carlo and f2s in that you should determine your course of action based on your overall objectives. I stand by my opinion as I believe that it is the path of less resistance given the two options but: If, for example, you have recently had a break-in in the neighborhood or say live in a rough area etc..., the protection course would outweight the marksmanship course (imo). But then you probably wouldn't have asked the question.
Only you can make an informed decision for yourself, all we can do is help you break down the pros and cons of each path to aid you in making your decision. Good luck.
kingkroupa
01-10-12, 19:46
What have you been doing since the first class?
I've been dry fire practicing for 15-20 minutes about 3 days a week, shooting about one USPSA or steel challenge match a month, and making it to the range to practice 2-3 times a month.
kingkroupa
01-10-12, 23:17
Well I guess it is partially settled, I just registered for the Seeklander class because there was only I opening left. I'm still hoping that I can work it out to go to the Redback course also though.
Well I guess it is partially settled, I just registered for the Seeklander class because there was only I opening left. I'm still hoping that I can work it out to go to the Redback course also though.
Cool. Let us know how it goes. I just wish there was more about the course than what's posted up on the website especially at the higher price point. Also if he's translating to the carbine on day 3 in regards to "Developing your base" or "Movement and one handed survival shooting". Just too vague for me, but nonetheless, your AAR after the fact will help enlighten me.
Day 1- Developing your “BASE”
draw, reload, malfunctions, high performance grip, scan process, etc..
Day 2
one handed survival shooting
movement
Day 3 Carbine ADD ON $125.00
Translate to the Carbine what we learned previous 2 days
This portion of training addresses the AR 15
I've been dry fire practicing for 15-20 minutes about 3 days a week, shooting about one USPSA or steel challenge match a month, and making it to the range to practice 2-3 times a month.
Based on this new info, I have to reassess your dilemma. I know next to nothing about competition shooting so I won't pretend that I do. It does sound like you are serious and have been shooting around other, possibly, more experienced shooters.
The new info changes things since you have seen a lot of variation already and it isn't like you took a basic class and went out to the range once or twice since. Based on this, I think you would be fine going in either direction. Determine your end goal and chart a path to get there.
kingkroupa
01-11-12, 11:11
Cool. Let us know how it goes. I just wish there was more about the course than what's posted up on the website especially at the higher price point. Also if he's translating to the carbine on day 3 in regards to "Developing your base" or "Movement and one handed survival shooting". Just too vague for me, but nonetheless, your AAR after the fact will help enlighten me.
For me the higher price point is balanced out by the fact that the course is 20 minutes from my house as opposed to 6 hours so no hotel room. I'll be sure to post an AAR afterwards.
The really good news is it looks like I will be able to make it to both courses! :laugh:
Personally, I would look at each instructor's curriculum and see which one fits towards your overall objective if you have one.
I just wish there was more about the course than what's posted up on the website especially at the higher price point.
Your second quote underlines the issue I have with a first one. I found online curricula nearly useless in that they are generic, almost identical and don't tell me much. I barely read them, unless I am looking for a very specific content, such as no-light training, or a shoothouse, etc. Instead of reading instructors' websites, I spend a good deal reading AARs or training reports, paying attention to both content and authorship.
To the OP: I personally prefer a wide sampling of instructors, especially early in training experience. First, it complements your knowledge base; second, it lets you find one or two whose philosophy and methods connect with you better.
Your second quote underlines the issue I have with a first one. I found online curricula nearly useless in that they are generic, almost identical and don't tell me much. I barely read them, unless I am looking for a very specific content, such as no-light training, or a shoothouse, etc. Instead of reading instructors' websites, I spend a good deal reading AARs or training reports, paying attention to both content and authorship.
Very true. And that is why I try to have a very accurate curriculum when we put out a course. If you haven't taken a class with us yet, you'll see Jason refer to a printed out curriculum that has blocks of time spent on each lesson. This keeps things rolling to make sure the student gets the information presented to him or her at the time of attendance. But most importantly, this keeps things consistent from class to class whether Jason is teaching or someone else under the RB1. Sure, there's a lot of variables out of our control especially with range, time, and student constraints, but personally, i try to take that into account when putting curriculum up.
Based on this new info, I have to reassess your dilemma. I know next to nothing about competition shooting so I won't pretend that I do. It does sound like you are serious and have been shooting around other, possibly, more experienced shooters.
The new info changes things since you have seen a lot of variation already and it isn't like you took a basic class and went out to the range once or twice since. Based on this, I think you would be fine going in either direction. Determine your end goal and chart a path to get there.
I knew you'd come around to my way of thinking, sboza. :cool:
To OP: I agree with others on the need for a better course description. If still curious, you can email him your questions/concerns. He's pretty responsive. mikeseeklanderATshooting-performance.com
It that the $550 course in Alaska? Is that the Alaska price, maybe? I'm just speculating, as his other courses seem to be around $200 a day.
Anyway, good luck and looking forward to the AAR.
kingkroupa
01-11-12, 21:46
I knew you'd come around to my way of thinking, sboza. :cool:
To OP: I agree with others on the need for a better course description. If still curious, you can email him your questions/concerns. He's pretty responsive. mikeseeklanderATshooting-performance.com
It that the $550 course in Alaska? Is that the Alaska price, maybe? I'm just speculating, as his other courses seem to be around $200 a day.
Anyway, good luck and looking forward to the AAR.
I've talked to the fellow hosting the class and got a better idea of what the course will cover. They had Mike up for a class last summer also. The class is in Alaska and the cool part is Mike Seeklander will be shooting in our Alaska Steel Shoot Championship the day before the class, the really cool part is everyone in the course will also be on his squad for the match.
I knew you'd come around to my way of thinking, sboza. :cool:
Reassessing based of new information vs information availble ... one of many concepts you will never understand. :suicide:
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