View Full Version : Very Disappointed Last Weekend
Last weekend my father-in-law dragged me to the Richmond, VA gun show at the Showplace. I had no money so I didn't really want to go but when he said he would pay for my admission, I didn't have much of an argument and I thought what the heck, I will try to sell my BCM M4.
So I make up a sign and affix it to the rifle. The sign had all the specs, etc. I had a price listed on it as I did not want to waste my time with people trying to low ball me. After about 3.5 hours walking around looking at the same things over and over, I decided I would try to trade the rifle for a Springfield Loaded Lightweight Compact .45. There were two dealers selling them for about the $1100 mark. The first dealer who I dealt with many times before and bought plenty from in the past, said he would but he has an crap load of AR's and they are not selling like they used to. Fair enough.
So I go to the next one. The "Manager" was not there and so the guy had to call him to see if he would be willing to do the trade. This dealer was offering the pistol new for just a bit over $1k. So after about 2 phone calls and a discussion between two of the guys at the booth/table, he comes back to me saying he can do a trade + cash. At first I thought they would give me some cash and the pistol, but I quickly realized that no dealer would do such a thing these days. They wanted to give me $800 trade for the M4 (specs below) and me pay cash $200+.
I will admit I walked away laughing. I was very disappointed.
Specs:
Bravo Company USA Upper Receiver (5.56 - 1/7 Twist)
Bravo Company USA FA Bolt/Bolt Carrier Group
Daniel Defense Omega Quad Rail (FDE
Daniel Defense Lower Parts Kit
Bushmaster Lower Receiver
Battle Comp 2.0 Brake
Tango Down Vertical Grip (Foliage)
Magpul CTR Stock (FDE)
Magpul MIAD Grip (Black)
Magpul MS2 Sling (FDE)
Magpul Enhanced Trigger Guard
VLTOR A5 Buffer/Recoil system
A.R.M.S. LP40-SP Flip Up Rear Sight (Same Plane)
So you want over $1K for your used Frankengun? I don't think they're totally out of line. You should re-evaluate your gun's worth to other people especially those that need to add a markup to make a profit. You will never get what you put into something like that especially since it can be duplicated with anyone with a debit card/credit card. This ain't no hand built custom 1911 brother.
Its true.
Just because you spent the money on that configuration...doesnt mean someone wants that EXACT configuration.
You need to part this gun out and sell it off on the ad boards and gunbroker.
Its true.
Just becaus eyou spent the money on that configuration...doesnt mean someone wants that EXACT configuration.
No shit.
What can't people figure this out. Nobody that has a clue likes "package" deals.
Another thing...
When I see a frankengun built on a low end lower (like your bushy) I think the rest of the gun is junk.
The_War_Wagon
01-10-12, 15:09
My college wingman was at that show both days (he was walking around with the slung black Aug E4 with a 'for sale' sign on it, BTW), and likewise reported, as shows go, it was a 'dud.'
Can't say as I've been to a REALLY good gun show, since I went to the one at the Houston Astrohall in late '96! They seem to get more 'FUDDerific' by the year here in western PA. It's either tables full of 'Unka Bubba's' experimental kit ARs for sale (put together with parts made in Bangladesh, & points beyond), or some of 'em air HI-DOLLAR guns ($1,500 RRA's and Oly's). :jester: I honestly don't know how they can afford to haul their junk from town to town with these shows... but then again, SOMEONE must be throwing good money after bad, and keeping them, in business.
When you show such folk a REAL AR (BCM, DD, LMT, Noveske, et.al.), they look at you as dumbfounded as shepherds staring at a space shuttle. They think since THEY'VE never heard of it, it MUST be of LOWER quality/value, than their tactical boat anchor. :rolleyes:
You'll be better off listing it here and selling it, and then taking the proceeds & buying another member's firearm off the EE. Less headache, and almost certainly you'll get a better deal.
p.s. - MEA CULPA!!! MISSED the Shrubmaster lower - all I saw initially was "BCM."
Yep, part it out, and pinch more pennies brudda!
Anymore, about the only thing gunshows are good for is the dumping off of unwanted goods..you know,C&R rifles, handguns, that you had a passing interest in, haven't shot in years, and are now taking up space in the safe, etc, Firearms that were bought, and later turned out to be a mistake, (Taurus judge comes to mind here) That's what I use gunshows for..unloading of stuff I no longer want, or need...
As far as a guns how offer I think for Franken gun that was a very good offer. I think most shows I go to you would get offered at most 400.
I agree your best bet is to part it out.
I honestly don't know how they can afford to haul their junk from town to town with these shows... but then again, SOMEONE must be throwing good money after bad, and keeping them, in business.
The only thing I can figure is they have a girlfriend in every town... or... they have a wife at home... or... all of the above.
To the OP, I agree with others. What you have might have cost you some money but it's not everyone's cup of tea and it's used and you are not a retailer. .... all that adds up to discount.
All things considered. A dealer willing to make that deal with you seems pretty fair.
Sell the higher-end items, put standard hand guards, stock, and flash hider on it and then see what you can get for the complete rifle. You will still lose a bit, but probably not as much. If you like those components you can save them for another build or do the members of the forum some good and post them for a slight discount (depending on condition) on the EE.
I think the used trade-in offer for a frankengun from a dealer was fair. We often put far more $$$ into a build than we'll ever see out of it on the open market. It doesn't mean the money wasn't well spent if you don't recoup 90%+ on your investment. If it fulfilled your wants and needs while using it, it covered it's cost.
$800 trade for a home build is pretty generous.
As stated... you'll get more in the end with the extra effort of parting the thing out.
nobody knows
01-11-12, 14:24
I see this all the time. Someone "builds" an AR weather its quality parts or not and expects to get what they have into it (sometimes more) It's just not going to happen. A used rifle is used weather you put 10 or 10,000 rounds through it. You will be lucky to get $800-$900 out of it on the used market, more if you part it out, but not much.
Belmont31R
01-11-12, 15:06
$800 seems to much.
When you trade something in you are asking the dealer to sell your item for you. They have to lug the thing around, pay employees to sell it, keep a storefront open, pay taxes, ect.
I would expect a trade for a gun like that to be about 500-700 depending on the local market and current buying conditions. Maybe $700 in a hot area where the dealer has been selling AR's well.
Wanting a thousand on a trade for that frankengun is absurd, and 800 was a very generous offer.
Its just like selling a car. Often add on parts are a "bonus" to the final sale price, and unless its a one of a kind type of thing that is well done can often be a hindrance to selling it. When you customize something its to your likes and desires not the general public. When I have sold custom uppers I often price them to sell not waiting months or more for the perfect buyer to come along who likes the way I setup the upper to make a little more money.
As others have mentioned...I'm surprised they offered you $800.
$800 trade for a home build is pretty generous.
As stated... you'll get more in the end with the extra effort of parting the thing out.
I would have to agree. Rough guestimate is that the OP has about $1500 (or less) in the gun. Without knowing the round count and the fact that the gun is a "parts" build, half the price paid for the weapon is about right.
I think people need t orealize that in order for a dealer to make a decent profit on a used gun (assuming it isn't rare), the dealer must RAPE the seller on the price.
As they say on Pawn Stars; "I am not a collector so it isn't worth the asking price to me." ;)
C4
Eurodriver
01-11-12, 16:39
I would have to agree. Rough guestimate is that the OP has about $1500 (or less) in the gun. Without knowing the round count and the fact that the gun is a "parts" build, half the price paid for the weapon is about right.
I think people need t orealize that in order for a dealer to make a decent profit on a used gun (assuming it isn't rare), the dealer must RAPE the seller on the price.
As they say on Pawn Stars; "I am not a collector so it isn't worth the asking price to me." ;)
C4
I traded a 20" BCM A4 clone (built on a Spikes lower) for $700!!
I would have been super excited to get $800!
Its times like these I wish the EE was open for comments.
Guys selling used BattleComp 1.0s for $125, or my favorite are ones like:
BCM Upper w/o BCG for $750 with only 500 rounds through it.
This same upper sells from BCM for $779. Save yourself $29 and buy from me!
:rolleyes:
I think people need t orealize that in order for a dealer to make a decent profit on a used gun (assuming it isn't rare), the dealer must RAPE the seller on the price.
You are almost ALWAYS better off trying a sale to a private party than to trade in to a dealer.
I've had people suggest trades to me that were ridiculous to me as a dealer (non firearms -- optics and accessories) since I could buy the item new at wholesale for much cheaper, but would have been OK to a private party.
I think you're (OP) running into two problems:
A) To regurgitate what everyone else has already said, you're probably up a little high dollarwise and should probably part it out. It took me 6 months to sell my AR- until I found someone who wanted the lower, and I put the upper on gunbroker where it promptly sold in less than a day (granted it was a pretty good deal- and a Stag....:p). And yes, I took a pretty good hit on it, although not as bad as it could have been- I actually made more than the offers I got on it complete. Go figure.
B) You're in southern[ish] VA- nobody has a clue who BCM is. Or Tangodown or Battlecomp, and so forth. When I was shopping around for my current AR I found a grand total of two shops (possibly a third but never made it there) who actually knew who Daniel Defense was- and imho, they're more well known than BCM. Everyone else I got the ol' blank stare.
That being said-
I seriously mulled over going to that show. We could have commiserated together.:D
I don't know what it is but I can't stop going even though there's a 99% chance I'll never buy anything. I think it's just that being in an entire roomful of guns screams 'Merica- F yeah....
That, and I seem to get the odd shows that have a few items of worth that keep my hopes up- last one I went to there was a guy selling Nightforce scopes and Troy sights/accessories, and a Strider dealer- first time I've ever seen that at a gun show. Heck, there were even a few 870Ps that were actually sanely priced.
Of course after that it was pretty much table upon table of the same never ending mediocrity.....
This is probably the second thread you started regarding you trying to sell your not so special gun for a ridiculously inflated price.
Here is the first: http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=92358
Belmont31R
01-12-12, 00:36
This is probably the second thread you started regarding you trying to sell your not so special gun for a ridiculously inflated price.
Here is the first: http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=92358
Wow. 2 months ago still not sold.
OP...if no one is buying your gun, and you've had quite a few people look at it then its priced to high. You are essentially selling a use gun for more than people can similarly equipped factory rifles for new...:eek:
$1229 for a factory new gun with FF rail, buis, Magpul stock, VFG, ect..... http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2546
Why would anyone buy a used franken gun for $1400 when you can get a new gun for less? Why would you expect a dealer, who has to resell your gun, pay you $1k in trade in for that?
CarlosDJackal
01-13-12, 10:50
Hell, I'll give you $600 for your rifle. But there is no way I would even consider $1k or more for what you have. You might have an easier chance selling the BCM upper by itself.
Especially since I can buy a brand new Colt for $1,100.
30 cal slut
01-13-12, 11:49
OP, what was the date of manufacture of your Bushmaster lower receiver? Was it prior to 9/13/94?
If so, gimme a holler.
(srsly)
something else to think about with the election coming up this year sit on it if you are not hurting for money when and it will the Panic buying starts ,you can probably get what you are asking.
I remember seeing a guy at a 2008 gun show sell a stag I think with the deer head:confused: for 1200 and it was used and didn't even looked like he cleaned it .
But it was cheaper than what was on the tables 1500 and up :eek:I only saw one Colt and the guy was asking 1800 for it .
I just bought parts that year but they were all Colt and I found them at a good price on the EE
Eurodriver
01-15-12, 09:37
Wow...
I traded a franken gun for an O/U that was pricesd at 900.
BCM middy upper/centurion arms rail, Noveske lower, psa parts kit, ergo grip, magpul ctr.
I thought that was a fair deal. Its all in the eye of the beholder. I think the Bushy lower really kills that rifle, but thats just me.
Some things that I realized a long time ago are that Gun Shows are a huge waste of time unless you're looking for parts for C&R, NEVER expect to get a smoking deal on anything that you can't find on the internet without the haggling and bullshit. Most if not all gun dealers have a the mindset that your gun is not worth as much as you think but magically if they were selling the exact same gun it's "special" and worth much more. I don't waste my time with Gun Shows....
The Gun dealers I know tell me they make big margins on used guns so if they gave you 600 for your gun they would sell it for 900.
And Bitch about how they were doing you a favor.. :eek:
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