View Full Version : Shooting Left/Weak Side with Strong Right Dominant Eye - Issues
I am a right hander with a dominant right eye. All was good until my Vickers AK course this August where I learned that when I shot from the left shoulder, I could not see the dot nor can I blink my right eye. My right eye blocks out the vision of my left eye. Larry told me not to worry about it because 99% chance in civilian world I would not need to. The rest of the class I shot only right handed.
I also asked a Police instructor, that I know, who teaches recruits at the academy, who from time to time gives me instruction. He had no suggestions than do your best to shoot even if awkward.
When I take classes, which I intend to keep doing, I would like to keep up with the rest of the class during drills and not get beat in the face with my stock :eek:
Thoughts, suggestions, experiences, or alternative solutions are welcome.
Sorry for the long read but wanted to give enough info to diagnose.
A lot of guys have had luck elevating their optic higher than normal if they want to do OSH shooting with a long gun and have eye dominance issues.
I couldn't care much less about the whole lateral shoulder transitions, but for guys who do, raising the optic up is one of the easiest solutions.
It will change the second intersect of your zero, and close range offset distance, though. Once you get outside of normal mounting heights, you really should be shooting and walking your zero to absolutely KNOW your drop at range. This whole "50/200" thing is one of those myths. I know guys that have 50/247 with their guns. You need to walk your zero and zero at the exact distance you want your zero at.
Highly elevated optics will make your second POA intersect go out even further.
I am a right hander with a dominant right eye. All was good until my Vickers AK course this August where I learned that when I shot from the left shoulder, I could not see the dot nor can I blink my right eye.
Are you saying that you absolutely can't close your right eye? Physical issues? Extreme poor vision in your left eye? Can you train to do it?
Gringop
In a recent pistol class the instructor related a method to help train your brain to transition between left eye and right eye dominance. Granted this was a pistol class, but I suppose the same thing could be done with a long gun. Also keep in mind that I'm cross dominant (left handed, primarily right eye dominant), so moving between right eye focus shooting pistols and left eye focus shooting rifles is something I've learned to deal with over the years.
The method requires you to place a vertical column like a telephone pole or post under a deck (this is a dry drill, no shooting required) between you and the target. The target should be obscured by the post when standing perfectly straight up. You then lean to the right and sight through your pistol/rifle with the right eye and get a good sight picture. Now lean back to the left and transition to the left hand and get a good sight picture with the left eye. Go back and forth repeatedly until it becomes second nature to transition your eyes.
I will admit that I do not clearly understand your stance and grip while shooting support side but something seems off . A video would be great! You say that you see the dot (barely) in the upper part of the optic. Regardless of which shoulder you shoot off, the dot should be where it is cowitnessed (pref bottom 1/3). I've got a feeling that your stance, cheek weld, and/or your stock weld is jacked-up. Flip your back-up sights if you can and get your sights lined up correctly. The dot will be in the same place as your cowitnessed buis's. Tweak your stance and grip from here. I think the next time you take a professional class you need to ask the instructor to take some time to check your support side fundamentals. A lot of shooters not used to shooting carbine support side have issues in the beginning.
A couple of the tips from other posters may help you but a I asked my eye doc today and while she didn't know how to address the question as it relates to firearms, she did say that different people have different levels of eye dominance. She said that this sounds like a case of extreme right eye dom and that it is very difficult to change. She mentioned that people's eye dom changes (optic nerve something) and can flip in rare cases over the years so maybe your dom will decrease over time and possibly with some of the eye exercises posted by others.
I've dealt with students who were in similar situations: strong eye dom AND can't close just one eye. It's very tough to deal with for support side carbine work. Best advice I can muster is red dot turned up a notch or two extra, get your support side fundamentals down, and some eye exercises.
Good luck man.
Note: Also, try to bring the gun to your head more than your head to the gun. Sometimes this is especially bad for shooters with an uncommonly low stock weld so have someone take a look at that also. In addition, make sure you're not canting your head too much, a solid cheekweld doesn't require you head being tilted 45 degrees.
Edit to add: Larry Vickers is correct that a civilian will rarely find a scenario in which the tactics dictate transitioning to the support side. This is why many instructors, especially in open enrollment marksmanship classes, give support side carbine lip service. There just isn't a high enough return on the investment (requisite time) to get students proficient in it.
Edit to add: Don't count yourself too unlucky. Strong eye dom has benefits also. For example when you shoot with both eyes open, you don't have much of a ghost image to deal with whereas mildly right eye dom shooters (myself incl) have that issue to a degree no matter how much we train to ignore it.
Thanks so much for all of your comments. I need to read through. I may run my 5.45 through the same course this Sunday so I will see what happens.
Here are some pics of me on strong side stance if it is technique based. I am the guy in the orange hat. I have no pics shooting weak side.
I'm squinting to see your pics because I'm on my phone but is your thumb on the right side of the gun? I think it may just be my phone. Your stock weld is lower in one pic but doesn't look too drastic. Honestly, without support side pics or preferably a vid (taken from left side in this case), it is hard to critique your support side issues. What happens to a lot of shooters not used to support side shooting is the fundamentals of stance and grip go awry even though they do it correctly strong side. I wish I could be more helpful without more info. There are very experienced folks here that can probably help you out also
Edit to add: Moving the optic closer to your eye may make it easier to acquire the dot sooner.
Edit to add: Stock weld lower in one pic only. Corrected that in my response.
I'm squinting to see your pics because I'm on my phone but is your thumb on the right side of the gun? I think it may just be my phone. Your stock weld is lower in one pic but doesn't look too drastic. Honestly, without support side pics or preferably a vid (taken from left side in this case), it is hard to critique your support side issues. What happens to a lot of shooters not used to support side shooting is the fundamentals of stance and grip go awry even though they do it correctly strong side. I wish I could be more helpful without more info. There are very experienced folks here that can probably help you out also
Edit to add: Moving the optic closer to your eye may make it easier to acquire the dot sooner.
Edit to add: Stock weld lower in one pic only. Corrected that in my response.
I will see in the class if I can get some film done.
I have tried holding different rifles, if I manually close my right eye the dots and iron sights appear in focus. With both eyes open they the right eye takes over and it as if I am looking over the sights.
Also, I live in Kalifornia so I have to use a grip wrap so my thumb/web of hand can not go around the grip. I have to imagine that I lost my thumb... :(
In a recent pistol class the instructor related a method to help train your brain to transition between left eye and right eye dominance. Granted this was a pistol class, but I suppose the same thing could be done with a long gun. Also keep in mind that I'm cross dominant (left handed, primarily right eye dominant), so moving between right eye focus shooting pistols and left eye focus shooting rifles is something I've learned to deal with over the years.
The method requires you to place a target between you and a vertical column like a telephone pole or post under a deck (this is a dry drill, no shooting required). The target should be obscured by the post when standing perfectly straight up. You then lean to the right and sight through your pistol/rifle with the right eye and get a good sight picture. Now lean back to the left and transition to the left hand and get a good sight picture with the left eye. Go back and forth repeatedly until it becomes second nature to transition your eyes.
I will give a try. Thank you.
Are you saying that you absolutely can't close your right eye? Physical issues? Extreme poor vision in your left eye? Can you train to do it?
Gringop
Ever since I was a kid, if I try to blink right eye, my left eye will close to a degree that I can not see out of it.
Don Robison
01-12-12, 23:39
In a recent pistol class the instructor related a method to help train your brain to transition between left eye and right eye dominance. Granted this was a pistol class, but I suppose the same thing could be done with a long gun. Also keep in mind that I'm cross dominant (left handed, primarily right eye dominant), so moving between right eye focus shooting pistols and left eye focus shooting rifles is something I've learned to deal with over the years.
The method requires you to place a target between you and a vertical column like a telephone pole or post under a deck (this is a dry drill, no shooting required). The target should be obscured by the post when standing perfectly straight up. You then lean to the right and sight through your pistol/rifle with the right eye and get a good sight picture. Now lean back to the left and transition to the left hand and get a good sight picture with the left eye. Go back and forth repeatedly until it becomes second nature to transition your eyes.
I've been teaching that method for quite a while for both pistol and rifle. I've had good results from student feedback with it. I generally suggest not doing it more than 15 or 20 minutes at a time to start because until you start to adjust it can make you feel like you're going cross eyed. If you get frustrated stop; take a break and reset yourself.
Essentially you're just retraining your brain to do what you want or at least that's how the docs I talked to explained the physiology to me.
Failure2Stop
01-12-12, 23:39
You can strengthen the support side eye by blocking the vision of the firing side eye.
There are a lot of ways to do this, but a pretty simple one is to put translucent, "frosty" tape over the lens of your shooting glasses over the dominant eye.
Dry-fire presentation practice with that training aid will help the support side eye learn how to work.
I have tried holding different rifles, if I manually close my right eye the dots and iron sights appear in focus. With both eyes open they the right eye takes over and it as if I am looking over the sights.
That blows my mind. I don't understand why this happens. I can understand the focus issue but not why when you open your strong eye it seems like you are looking over your sights. The dot is in your left eye's vision field so opening the right eye shouldn't affect that. Hopefully the exercises explained here will help you along. I have seen the tape thing work. The other thing sounds promising too. Good luck.
Also, I live in Kalifornia so I have to use a grip wrap so my thumb/web of hand can not go around the grip. I have to imagine that I lost my thumb... :(
That just blows!
You can strengthen the support side eye by blocking the vision of the firing side eye.
There are a lot of ways to do this, but a pretty simple one is to put translucent, "frosty" tape over the lens of your shooting glasses over the dominant eye.
Dry-fire presentation practice with that training aid will help the support side eye learn how to work.
FS2 tape trick worked!!!!!!!
Good for you brother! The high/low thing still confuses me but a solution is a solution. Good luck.
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