View Full Version : let's see your scout rifle!
ColdDeadHands
01-14-12, 07:43
I think we should have a scout rifle pic thread to see how everybody set's theirs up.
ColdDeadHands
01-14-12, 07:52
tax refund is just around the corner and I can't make up my mind about what kinda rifle I should buy. So I don't have one but might soon if I see enough pics.:D
It all depends on what you want I guess. Of course there's the purist who sneer at anything other than the forward mounted scope.
Remember, it's "your" need that dictates the set up.
Light carbine with low power scope is a good general start.
ColdDeadHands
01-14-12, 08:20
It all depends on what you want I guess. Of course there's the purist who sneer at anything other than the forward mounted scope.
Remember, it's "your" need that dictates the set up.
Light carbine with low power scope is a good general start.
I want something that's easier to shoot beyond 100 yards then my AR w/T1. Whatever I get will have the Leupold VX-R Patrol 1.25-4 on it because it's good for close range & allows me to reach out.
Ok
Ruger GSR with XS Rail, Badger rings, Trijicon Accupoint - Shoots well and fast on target with the Accupoint.
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu90/jdefrancisci/Rifles/IMG_6040.jpg
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu90/jdefrancisci/Rifles/IMG_6046.jpg
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu90/jdefrancisci/Rifles/IMG_6043.jpg
Not a Scout due to the scope placement and a whole bunch of other details, but it's my light and handy .308 "practical rifle" that fills the same role for me:
http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/ac123/HDF62/200.jpg
Stevens 200 with a Nikon 1-4x African.
I want something that's easier to shoot beyond 100 yards then my AR w/T1. Whatever I get will have the Leupold VX-R Patrol 1.25-4 on it because it's good for close range & allows me to reach out.
Just add this with some Talley lightweights and you are done.
http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?mid=535126
ColdDeadHands
01-14-12, 10:59
Ok
Ruger GSR with XS Rail, Badger rings, Trijicon Accupoint - Shoots well and fast on target with the Accupoint.
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu90/jdefrancisci/Rifles/IMG_6040.jpg
If I'd get a GSR I'd set it up very similar to yours - I like it!
ColdDeadHands
01-14-12, 10:59
Just add this with some Talley lightweights and you are done.
http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?mid=535126
Something to think about!
SeriousStudent
01-14-12, 11:12
ColdDeadHands - great idea for a thread, a lot of us are thinking about this now that deer season is over.
Mark5pt56, what are your thoughts comparing a used Winchester Ranger Model 70 with the Featherweight model you mentioned? I believe the Rangers are not in production any longer, but I found a used one in VG condition. The crown is intact, and appears unmarked under a 10x loupe. The bore looks good, although I have not had it scoped. The trigger feels decent from a professional adjustment, and breaks right at 3.2 pounds.
I appreciate the advice about the Talley rings. I'm also looking at some used Leupold scopes on the various forums.
If this should be treated as a separate question rather than a post in this thread, I will be happy to move it or take it to PM's.
Thanks again for your assistance.
JBecker 72
01-14-12, 11:20
My stock RGSR, one of these days I'll get around to putting an optic on it, and maybe a muzzle brake. I really like this rifle, it shoots well and I have found it to be pretty accurate.
I need a better camera than my Droid. :(
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s73/hownowbrowncow_02/Guns/IMAG0109.jpg
ColdDeadHands - great idea for a thread, a lot of us are thinking about this now that deer season is over.
Mark5pt56, what are your thoughts comparing a used Winchester Ranger Model 70 with the Featherweight model you mentioned? I believe the Rangers are not in production any longer, but I found a used one in VG condition. The crown is intact, and appears unmarked under a 10x loupe. The bore looks good, although I have not had it scoped. The trigger feels decent from a professional adjustment, and breaks right at 3.2 pounds.
I appreciate the advice about the Talley rings. I'm also looking at some used Leupold scopes on the various forums.
If this should be treated as a separate question rather than a post in this thread, I will be happy to move it or take it to PM's.
Thanks again for your assistance.
As I understand they are a base gun, nothing wrong with them. The stock finish may not be as "pretty" but if it's a good price, why not? Internal mag I believe?
Check Natchez and others on the Leupold's because there will be a lot of clearances on them with the new models coming in.
SeriousStudent
01-14-12, 11:37
Yes, it is an internal mag. I'm fine with the stock on the gun, I do not lose sleep over the glossy finish on a hunting rifle. I prefer the glossy finish on the venison packages in the freezer. ;)
Ah, good tip on Natchez for the scopes. I signed up for their email alerts. I'll keep an eye what they offer, and do more reading.
Thanks, and have a safe weekend.
http://www.opticsplanet.net/leupold-rifle-scopes-by-price-2.html
Savage Scout with Burris 2-7 pistol scope with BDC. Found out about the pistol scope via the Lightfighter forums and even though I was skeptical, the eye relief does work out. I had a Steyr with the "correct" Scout scope and it didn't have enough magnification for my taste. I turned that Scout into this one and left a bunch of money in my pocket.
http://i42.tinypic.com/2nsrw5y.jpg
Around 3x (this is a very hard shot with an iPhone, BTW)
http://i39.tinypic.com/104jl8x.jpg
I could probably use a better sling but considering how often I shoot this (never), I'm in no hurry.
http://i39.tinypic.com/24q97p5.jpg
Lost River
01-17-12, 18:42
Mine is simply a "practical rifle" as well.
Tikka T3 Lite stainless .308 chopped to 20"s.
VTAC 2-point sling.
Talley lightweight rings
NightForce 2.5-10x24 w/NPR-2 reticle
I killed my elk with it last month. It is a sweet little tack driver. I have a bunch of 5 round mags from varmint models. They are durable and reliable like a Glock mag.
Overall, it has proven to be a stellar little lightweight carbine for everything from coyotes to elk.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/001-10.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/013-6.jpg
Lost River
01-17-12, 18:44
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/070-1.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/PracticalTikka003.jpg
Lost River
01-17-12, 18:45
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/LostRiverRangeOct08027.jpg
Steyr Scout .308
Leupold Scout Scope
Ching Sling
http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g334/Keydet08/IMG_0167.jpg
SeriousStudent
01-17-12, 21:47
Lost River, that is a very nice rifle and some beautiful photos. Congratulations on your elk, may it not be your last.
I am envious of you, sir. Thanks for posting the photos, it gives something to aspire to.
blasternank
01-25-12, 20:12
I have a Tikka Big Boar in 308. They do not import them anymore. I love the way it moves and feels in the hand. I have to look and see if I have some pictures.
Here's a picture of a stock photo of one:
http://www.thegunsource.com/item/58199_Tikka_Rifles_Shotguns_TIKKA_JRTU116_T3_BIG_BOAR_308.aspx
I played around with a Winchester 94 "scout" a few years ago, but don't have any pictures.
At the time Burris made a mount and rings that mounted in front of the reciever by replacing the rear sight with a treaded base and drill / tapping the barrel band for the front base attachment point. Of course this took away the BUIS option unless you mounted Lyman or other peep sight on the receiver.
If I remember correctly I got the idea from when Ted Yost was at Gunsight and was building a "tactical" lever gun during the bad ole AWB period. I always wanted to ask him what he did to make the loading gate smoother / faster to allow speed loading on the go, which was a part of what was advertised in the tactical lever gun package, besides the Burris forward mount and a Galco butt cuff and a Ching sling.
Anyway, sold the 94 for some other project but kept the Burris mount / rings just in case I ever want to try it again.
my savage....
http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/1451/673e8c6216453d17c330e91.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/809/673e8c6216453d17c330e91.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Steyr Scout in .223
http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt109/draper1950/steyr_scout_3.jpg
1859sharps
04-24-12, 13:51
It all depends on what you want I guess. Of course there's the purist who sneer at anything other than the forward mounted scope.
Remember, it's "your" need that dictates the set up.
Light carbine with low power scope is a good general start.
Purists do get a little carried away sometimes.
There are a few basic characteristics that define a scout. Purist forget that they aren't as rigid as you would think.
Here is the key characteristics http://www.steyrscout.org/project.htm
And as mentioned above, the forward mounted scope is NOT required to be a "scout".
It is my impression that Cooper felt over all weight, length, accuracy potential, and caliber was much more important to the concept of what made a rifle a "scout" verse just being another rifle.
According to Cooper, there are some good reasons to go with a low powered, forward mounted scope. his arguments for such a setup are worth of consideration.
While the forward mounted scope is an encouraged characteristic/feature, it's not defining one. simply having a forward mounted scope does not make a rifle a scout any more than not having one mean you don't have a scout.
Dos Cylindros
04-25-12, 11:17
This is my Ruger GSR. No optic as of yet because I have been a bit strapped for cash. I threw on a spare BFG Vickers sling which works great in this application, and a Battle Comp BBAC. I hope to get a Burris or Leupold scout scope fairly soon, along with a ching sling to round out the package. I love this rifle, very light, short and handy. It is my only bolt gun and really is an "all purpose" gun.
http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac335/4N20/GSR.jpg
CZ 452 Scout (22lr) in a military trainer stock - the squirrels nightmare...
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7183/6798416032_44f69f4668_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42137411@N00/6798416032/)
CZ 452 Scout (22lr) in a military trainer stock - the squirrels nightmare...
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7183/6798416032_44f69f4668_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42137411@N00/6798416032/)
^^^ That one's definately in the beauty department!
Thanks! Whats nice is that I can swap the stock back to the original (in 30 seconds) so I have a gun I can lend out to kids or women who can't deal with an adult LOP.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7069/6806330902_6ac43aafa5.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42137411@N00/6806330902/)
Barry in IN
05-31-12, 10:40
I first read heard of a Scout rifle when I was in high school and Jeff Cooper was modifying Remington 600s. I truthfully thought it was kinda goofy. When the Steyr Scout came out, I thought it was silly.
Then several years later, I looked at a Steyr Scout in a gunshop since I'd not seen any before, snapped it to my shoulder, and said "Hey, this is kinda nice." I shot one a couple years later and had to have one. I got mine, have been messing with it for a few years now, and love it.
Sometimes, I have to try something to get it.
Here is the Steyr:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c240/ColtsR4Football/002-27.jpg
Before the Steyr, I had cobbled together this Near-Scout, a Yugo Mauser action with a Spanish FR-8 barrel.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c240/ColtsR4Football/IMG_0994.jpg
It meets the Scout criteria except for weight, and might come close if I'd hollow out the stock. There is a lot of wood there.
And the Johnson Scout:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c240/ColtsR4Football/003-3-2-1.jpg
OK, it's faked by sitting a scope on top, but it's a handy pic to show people that a forward scope alone does not make a rifle a Scout.
R - L .223, .308 & .308
http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt109/draper1950/ScoutTrio005.jpg
http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt109/draper1950/ScoutTrio001.jpg
Purists do get a little carried away sometimes.
There are a few basic characteristics that define a scout. Purist forget that they aren't as rigid as you would think.
Here is the key characteristics http://www.steyrscout.org/project.htm
And as mentioned above, the forward mounted scope is NOT required to be a "scout".
It is my impression that Cooper felt over all weight, length, accuracy potential, and caliber was much more important to the concept of what made a rifle a "scout" verse just being another rifle.
According to Cooper, there are some good reasons to go with a low powered, forward mounted scope. his arguments for such a setup are worth of consideration.
While the forward mounted scope is an encouraged characteristic/feature, it's not defining one. simply having a forward mounted scope does not make a rifle a scout any more than not having one mean you don't have a scout.
I had a Scout built back in the 90s and hunted exclusively with it for several years. I also exchanged several letters with Cooper and Finn Aagaard about the Scout. You're absolutely right that the characteristics are flexible--basically, it's just a short, light rifle with a good sling and a trigger job.
The best part is that an M-4 with a red-dot sight is a LOT closer to being a Scout than the die-hards are willing to admit.
Okie John
I had a Scout built back in the 90s and hunted exclusively with it for several years. I also exchanged several letters with Cooper and Finn Aagaard about the Scout. You're absolutely right that the characteristics are flexible--basically, it's just a short, light rifle with a good sling and a trigger job.
The best part is that an M-4 with a red-dot sight is a LOT closer to being a Scout than the die-hards are willing to admit.
Okie John
Accept that it's not bolt action and half a dozen other characteristics (including caliber) that he, Cooper, wanted to see in a scout rifle. Not that it matters to me mind you. I have a Mini-14 in a pseudo scout set-up and love the way it handles. No purist here, but I do believe that there is something to be appreciated in the parameters Cooper set forth. It seems to me that what Cooper thought about the Scout Concept did vary and evolve on occasion but the fact that he endorsed the Steyr version says something about what he felt was most important. http://www.scoutrifle.org/index.php?topic=971.0 http://www.scoutrifle.org/index.php?topic=24.0
Barry in IN
06-11-12, 01:23
Accept that it's not bolt action and half a dozen other characteristics (including caliber) that he, Cooper, wanted to see in a scout rifle. http://www.scoutrifle.org/index.php?topic=971.0 http://www.scoutrifle.org/index.php?topic=24.0
Nothing I've found that he wrote says a Scout has to be a bolt action. They ended up being bolts to meet the weight limit he proscribed, since a bolt action is usually the lightest repeating action for a specific cartridge class. Perhaps it could be done with an AR-10 action now. I would like to see how close it could get.
I personally love the simplicity and handling of a short powerful bolt gun such as the Ruger GSR.
Still - It does seem that an AR10 16" carbine in .308 would fit the performance criteria perfectly. A Knight's SR25 Carbine can hardly be called a poodle shooter. Its light, powerful, fast to pull off a quick shot and accurate.
Nothing I've found that he wrote says a Scout has to be a bolt action. They ended up being bolts to meet the weight limit he proscribed, since a bolt action is usually the lightest repeating action for a specific cartridge class. Perhaps it could be done with an AR-10 action now. I would like to see how close it could get.
I think that it is generally accepted that Cooper never considered the semi-auto in his concept of the scout rifle because there are no examples of him ever doing so. If he had I'm sure that there would have been numerous first hand accounts of such an event.
I know we all view this differently but I for one like the Scout Rifle concept but do not hang onto Jeff Cooper's words like gospel. He has a brilliant common sense but life moves on.
To me its the performance, capability and concept that is interesting.
I know we all view this differently but I for one like the Scout Rifle concept but do not hang onto Jeff Cooper's words like gospel. He has a brilliant common sense but life moves on.
To me its the performance, capability and concept that is interesting.
Of course. I do not recall seeing any of his specifications on the two tablets.
Barry in IN
06-11-12, 20:31
Col Cooper would touch on semiautos in his Commentaries, but I think only because people kept asking him about them. He would say a semiauto Scout should be OK if they could meet the weight limit, but I think he in fact didn't like the thought of a semiauto Scout.
With the exception of the original 1950s AR-10s that were pretty scarce, there was probably no semiauto action light enough to get very close to the weight when he was cooking this up, so I suppose it was a valid point at the time.
Regarding how closely the specs are followed, the Scout is probably the only thing of his I follow rigidly. As far as I know, it is the only "class" of firearm he created and guarded the "rules" seriously. It seemed to annoy him greatly when someone threw a pistol scope on a 10 pound .223 and called it a Scout, which I can understand because it missed the point entirely.
I figure that if he could spend three decades, travel to two or three continents testing, and lay out unknown dollars towards experimenting to get it where he wanted it, I can respect that by not calling a rifle "Scout" if he wouldn't.
In my mind, a rifle has to meet certain criteria to be a Scout, but another rifle that comes only reasonably close can still be one heck of a rifle.
On a somewhat related note, it seems like a lot of people miss the point of them, or don't know what a scout rifle is for. I get the impression they seem to think it was an attempt at a standard issue military rifle. The comments I hear about mine from other shooters at the range indicate that. If that person is a hunter, his comment will be something like "That's interesting I guess, but I like sportin' rifles". If more "tactical minded", the comment will be something like asking why Jeff Cooper thought we should go back to bolt actions for regular issue. When I slip in a comment about hunting with it, they get a look like they'd give me if I suggested using a .22 pocket pistol.
I don't know what makes them think it is anything other than a hunting/general purpose rifle. The plan was that it could be pressed into service against people if it was what you had, which is where the rapid reloading part came from, but not as it's main purpose.
Maybe it's the similarity to the Enfield Jungle Carbine. Maybe it's from seeing more M1A "Scouts" than anything else. I'd say it was from people hearing "Scout" and thinking "Scout-Sniper" but I think most people who know of the term scout in the military sense know enough to not jump to the conclusion he was trying to rearm the world's armies with bolt guns.
Col Cooper would touch on semiautos in his Commentaries, but I think only because people kept asking him about them. He would say a semiauto Scout should be OK if they could meet the weight limit, but I think he in fact didn't like the thought of a semiauto Scout.
This.
Per Jeff Cooper's Commentaries Volume 1, Number 11, 10 DEC 1993:
“I am sometimes asked why we have not given more thought to the concept of a self-loading Scout rifle. The fact is that up ’til now no self-loading action has been produced which is light, simple, and compact enough to meet the weight requirements of the piece. A second point is that semi-automatic fire is of little concern to a man acting alone unless he is in danger of being overwhelmed by a horde of Iron-Age types armed with edged weapons. I would never be opposed to the concept of a self-loading Scout, however, if I thought could get it without drawbacks.”
Okie John
kaiservontexas
06-13-12, 21:09
Wasn't the scout rifle concept developed during the AWB 94? A supposed everyman's rifle? Just curious as it has been a long time, and I was browsing through the thread.
Alaskapopo
06-14-12, 05:38
Wasn't the scout rifle concept developed during the AWB 94? A supposed everyman's rifle? Just curious as it has been a long time, and I was browsing through the thread.
It was developed well before the AWB. Personally I hate them. Forward mounting scopes are harder to use than a good low power variable that is closer to your eye. The insistence on a bolt seems silly as well. I would much rather have a SCAR 17 oh wait I do. This concepts seems fine for a hunting rifle where the game is not going to shoot back. But for anti personal use I think the concept is very flawed.
pat
Barry in IN
06-14-12, 10:09
It was developed as a hunting rifle.
A general purpose hunting rifle. Yes, it could be used for anti-personnel use if it was what one had, like any other rifle. The rapid reloading capability (detachable magazine or stripper clip) was specified in order to make it a little better than the average "deer rifle" for that use, but that not was the intent.
And (again) there was no "insistence on a bolt". The weight specs pretty much ruled out any other action type. If someone could come up with a 6.6 lb, 1 meter long, semiauto that used a cartridge capable of cleanly taking game up to 500 lbs, with either peep sights or fwd scope and a means to be quickly reloaded, he would have gladly looked it over.
But since it was intended as a hunting rifle, a semiauto action was deemed a luxury rather than a necessity and it wasn't pursued with the same fervor as some of the other traits.
Barry in IN
06-14-12, 11:06
Wasn't the scout rifle concept developed during the AWB 94? A supposed everyman's rifle? Just curious as it has been a long time, and I was browsing through the thread.
Col Jeff Cooper started working on the concept in the early 1960s after hunting the USA, Central, and South America using a Remington model 600 carbine in .308. It was apparent to him that this little rifle/cartridge could do almost everything the average hunter needed, with no extra weight and bulk. That rifle had a large aperture peep rear sight.
He explored and refined the idea, adding the forward scope (to keep the point of balance clear for carrying, leave the action unobstructed for loading, etc), slings that would allow the shooter to loop up if time allowed, and other little details. Later prototypes used Sako and Ruger 77 actions.
He would write about it from time to time- more often as he worked it out. I have a Guns and Ammo from maybe 1967 with some mention of the Rem 600 projects in an article of his. He had a story about it in Gun Digest about 1980, and an American Rifleman article roughly 1983. There were other mentions along the way, and it started showing up regularly in his books.
In the late 80s, a Steyr executive was at Gunsite, shot Cooper's pet project, and loved it. Cooper naturally asked him to do all he could to get it factory built. Steyr had the SBS action in the works at the time and didn't want to use an action they were about to replace, so waited until the SBS was ready and in production before making a variation. That took a while. I think it was 1997 when the Steyr Scout came out, and most people heard of it for the first time then.
I had read Cooper's general purpose rifle articles and liked the idea. When the Steyr came out, I hated it. I thought it was a silly looking rifle and that Steyr took what was an idea for a simple rifle and complicated it. Both thoughts were based on appearance.
When I tried one, I liked it. The goofball appearance makes it look like Steyr was trying to do a bunch of things at once, but when I handled it, it was clear that what Steyr did was make the original idea work better. I think it's one of the best "snap shooting" rifles around, and most of that is from the stock design that looks so odd. Anyone can make a rifle that shoots well at long range provided they can spend enough on it, but they made a rifle that handles like a bird gun...and still does well at a fair distance. If that makes it look funny, I don't care.
I think people look at it, see it's different, and try to categorize it. Most seem to see it as a military rifle, which I don't get, but is so common I'm no longer surprised by it.
It does have some confusing or contradicting features if you don't know why they're there. A bolt action with a 2.5x scope, for starters. Some might see the bipod and think it was supposed to be a long range rifle, but that doesn't make sense to them with the light 19" barrel. That bipod is there simply because it could be done without adding more than an ounce or two. They probably just said "why not?". It is no Harris, but it beats nothing, I suppose. I get a lot of good out of it as a way to put the rifle down. I pop the legs out and sit it on the ground rather than lean it against a tree so it can fall over in the dirt/leaves/mud. It has been pretty handy for cleaning, too. It's just a detail. A bonus.
kaiservontexas
06-14-12, 11:18
Thanks for giving me the history on it.
Alaskapopo
06-14-12, 23:06
It was developed as a hunting rifle.
A general purpose hunting rifle. Yes, it could be used for anti-personnel use if it was what one had, like any other rifle. The rapid reloading capability (detachable magazine or stripper clip) was specified in order to make it a little better than the average "deer rifle" for that use, but that not was the intent.
And (again) there was no "insistence on a bolt". The weight specs pretty much ruled out any other action type. If someone could come up with a 6.6 lb, 1 meter long, semiauto that used a cartridge capable of cleanly taking game up to 500 lbs, with either peep sights or fwd scope and a means to be quickly reloaded, he would have gladly looked it over.
But since it was intended as a hunting rifle, a semiauto action was deemed a luxury rather than a necessity and it wasn't pursued with the same fervor as some of the other traits.
I can't do 6.6 but I can get it down to 7.75 pounds with a Larue Predator if you want it light. To each their own but to me the Scout concept is a flop. You get a rifle thats not really that accurate, has a slow rate of fire and the forward mounted optics leave a lot to be desired.
Pat
Barry in IN
06-15-12, 13:35
Not that accurate by what standard? Mine shoots right at an inch and slightly under with it's least favorite hunting grade ammo, which is truthfully the worst I've heard of one doing. Most others I've seen are easy 3/4 MOA rifles. That may not astound anyone used to precision rifles, but it isn't a precision rifle. Personally, I think they shoot great for a hunting rifle loaded with whatever is on the shelf at the local gun shop.
It's sure good enough for a rifle meant for largish game at 300 yards and under.
Slow rate of fire? How fast do you need for a hunting rifle?
The forward scope being good or bad is a matter of opinion. It's like everything else. Some like it and some hate it. Some hate it until they try it and some like it until they use it in the field. I like it- for this purpose. It's faster than anything I've tried except an RDS and I think it gives more precision when needed.
The forward scope is not a requirement to be called a Scout rifle anyway. The Steyr and Savage can mount conventional scopes just fine. The Ruger needs the rear sight removed, which I think is a mistake because it reduces the versatility. My Scout scope is in QD rings and I keep a Leupold 3.5-10X in a set of QD rings to throw on if more mag is needed.
Back to the accuracy thing: An odd but happy quirk of mine is that it shoots a fairly broad range of ammo to more or less the same POI, at least out to 300. I noticed when testing ammo when I first had mine that the groups landed in the same place no matter what I used, so I saved out one round of each of the better loads in each bullet weight and style. I shot a group with 11 different bullets ranging from 110 HP @ 2950 to 180 RN @ 2150 at 100 that measured 1-7/8". Seven of those 11 (still covering 110 to 180) went into 1-1/8". I haven't shot a group of individual loads at farther ranges yet, but judging from their POIs on paper, they look to keep it going fairly close to 300 at least.
For a general purpose hunting rifle, I'd much rather it did that than shoot one or two loads into a quarter inch but need a different zero for different loads.
Alaskapopo
06-15-12, 13:57
Not that accurate by what standard? Mine shoots right at an inch and slightly under with it's least favorite hunting grade ammo, which is truthfully the worst I've heard of one doing. Most others I've seen are easy 3/4 MOA rifles. That may not astound anyone used to precision rifles, but it isn't a precision rifle. Personally, I think they shoot great for a hunting rifle loaded with whatever is on the shelf at the local gun shop.
It's sure good enough for a rifle meant for largish game at 300 yards and under.
Slow rate of fire? How fast do you need for a hunting rifle?
The forward scope being good or bad is a matter of opinion. It's like everything else. Some like it and some hate it. Some hate it until they try it and some like it until they use it in the field. I like it- for this purpose. It's faster than anything I've tried except an RDS and I think it gives more precision when needed.
The forward scope is not a requirement to be called a Scout rifle anyway. The Steyr and Savage can mount conventional scopes just fine. The Ruger needs the rear sight removed, which I think is a mistake because it reduces the versatility. My Scout scope is in QD rings and I keep a Leupold 3.5-10X in a set of QD rings to throw on if more mag is needed.
Back to the accuracy thing: An odd but happy quirk of mine is that it shoots a fairly broad range of ammo to more or less the same POI, at least out to 300. I noticed when testing ammo when I first had mine that the groups landed in the same place no matter what I used, so I saved out one round of each of the better loads in each bullet weight and style. I shot a group with 11 different bullets ranging from 110 HP @ 2950 to 180 RN @ 2150 at 100 that measured 1-7/8". Seven of those 11 (still covering 110 to 180) went into 1-1/8". I haven't shot a group of individual loads at farther ranges yet, but judging from their POIs on paper, they look to keep it going fairly close to 300 at least.
For a general purpose hunting rifle, I'd much rather it did that than shoot one or two loads into a quarter inch but need a different zero for different loads.
So your saying your Scout is MOA. I have also heard of guys with SKS's that shooot under and inch on the errornet. The reality is most of these guns due to the light barrel are around 1.5 to2 moa guns. With your claims it makes we wonder how you are measuring your accuracy. One three shot group or an average of 5 shot groups or a 10 shot group. Anyone can get lucky and have a good 3 shot group. That does not mean the rifle is MOA. I have a friend with a Scout and I know how the shoot. For hunting this rifle is fine as thats not a hard standard. I was thinking of it as a SHTF rifle and for that it is lacking. As for optics give me a good low power variable in the conventional position every time. If the forward mounted set up were faster competative shooters would use it and they don't.
pat
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-15-12, 20:11
The Steyr Scouts are 1 inch rifles. I have owned three over the years and accuracy was never an issue.
These rifles are meant to be general purpose rifles. And I think they are fine as hunting/survival rifles that could used to fight in a pinch. They are very light, well balanced, and much easier to handle than an AR when just being carried around.
My problem with the Steyr is that it isn't as durable as a survival rifle needs to be, in my opinion. The stock needs to lose the bipod and be made of something like Kevlar.
Barry in IN
06-15-12, 21:38
Yes I am saying my Scout is an MOA rifle, because it is. I can maybe count the Steyrs I personally I know of on one hand, but if all of those aren't 1 MOA rifles too, then they are so close it hardly matters.
Yes that's 5-shot groups. Three shot groups are useless no matter the rifle, IMO.
I do use the 10x scope for bench testing. It's only fair to the rifle to help my eyes.
In most cases my groups are an average of two or more groups with a given load. I usually load 20 at a time when I'm fine tuning, for four 5-shot groups.
This is with hunting bullets, usually Hornady or Sierra, although they are the ones that have proven their accuracy in other rifles before. The cheap FMJ bullets from Lithuania or someplace that I use for general practice run a little over, but even then I don't remember them ever going as big as 1.5 MOA or close to it. I'll give it some grace on that bullet anyway. No rifle likes every bullet, and if it has to not like one, that's a good one.
So yes, I'm calling it a one minute rifle, and am being honest about it thank you.
If every one of them was a 1.5-2.0 MOA rifle, how would that make it unsuitable as a hunting rifle? Or for anything short of varmints or competition?
Just because not everyone has one or likes it doesn't make it a bad idea.
ever see randy cain run one.........they arent that slow
Here is my attempt at a scout build, done in the late 90's. At 7.5 pounds as pictured, mine is over the target weight. The hefty McMillan stock is the culprit.
http://img.tapatalk.com/62f6f3ce-c9f1-1b12.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/62f6f3ce-ca0f-fee9.jpg
I was never really sure of what a 'scout' rifle was....always nice to learn something new whenever I log onto m4c.
Barry in IN
06-16-12, 14:48
I was never really sure of what a 'scout' rifle was....always nice to learn something new whenever I log onto m4c.
That's not unusual. Many people don't know what a Scout rifle is, including some who build rifles called "Scout". Nice rifles usually, but not Scouts.
I think it's one of the least understood concepts out there. Think of a rifle as easy to carry and use as a Winchester 94, but with more capability.
Barry in IN
06-16-12, 14:51
ever see randy cain run one.........they arent that slow
I'm dying to get to his Practical Rifle class. I have heard the joke where people say they shoot a bolt action so they don't have to wait on a semiauto's bolt, but I hear it might actually be true with him.
Here is my attempt at a scout build, done in the late 90's. At 7.5 pounds as pictured, mine is over the target weight. The hefty McMillan stock is the culprit.
http://img.tapatalk.com/62f6f3ce-c9f1-1b12.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/62f6f3ce-ca0f-fee9.jpg
KirkS,
Can you provide some detail about your scout? Looks like a pedestal barrel with integral sights, thanks,
Regards,
JFPatch
xrayoneone
08-17-12, 19:55
KirkS,
Can you provide some detail about your scout? Looks like a pedestal barrel with integral sights, thanks,
Regards,
JFPatch
I second this nomination.
What was the idea for placing the front sight in that position as opposed to the traditional spot?
I'm curious, I've seen scope rings with a peep drilled in them to act as a rear sight but I've never seen a scope base with a front sight.
Thanks.
X-ray,
If I recall correctly, Jeff Cooper felt that in the iron sights were for backup use in the event of a scope failure. The scope was meant to be mounted very low (thickness on a playing card between the ocular bell and the action) and I think he wrote that he felt a traditional front sight would get in the way. I think I read all of this in a custom scout rifle article in Guns and Ammo magazine, authored by Col. Cooper about 30 years ago.
montgomerygentryFan
09-05-12, 16:01
While I see most Scout rifles on the net are either a Savage or the newer Ruger GSR, how many folks out there use a Remington 700 either BDL or modified using magazines?
I've read that the latter isn't that practical, but was just curious how many people use that setup?
NOT A BOLT GUN, BUT IT IS A SCOUT RIFLE!
Currently, my scout rifle is a Springfield SOCOM M1A with an Aimpoint. Im just waiting for Trijicon to release their scout scope, and when they do, im switching to that, and the Aimpoint will go on my tactical Garand scout which will be done by Shuff's Parkerizing when the time comes.
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p313/madcatjoe/2012-09-05_09-32-17_570.jpg
SOCOM16
USGI wooden stock, refinished and modified to fit sling mounts
Smith Enterprises bolt release
Shim kit (.05 and .10 locked it up at 5 o'clock)
Aimpoint PRO
Aimpoint low mount
Ultimak rail
Gear Sector offset mount
Surefire 6P LED
Ergo ladder rail cover
VLTOR QDM14 QD sling mount
Grovtec 720203 QD socket in stock (both sides)
Hawk dummy selector kit
Blue Force Gear VCAS sling
Had some problems with my pictures so I'm reposting them.
http://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r616/Undefineduser45/IMG_6049.jpg
http://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r616/Undefineduser45/IMG_6045.jpg
Had some problems with my pictures so I'm reposting them.
http://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r616/Undefineduser45/IMG_6049.jpg
http://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r616/Undefineduser45/IMG_6045.jpg
What rings and height are those?
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-21-13, 02:53
Very basic right now....
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/Rifles/DSC_0012_zps1206f486.jpg
I would enjoy it as is, keep it simple and have fun. Scope it like the one above at max.
I second this nomination.
What was the idea for placing the front sight in that position as opposed to the traditional spot?
I'm curious, I've seen scope rings with a peep drilled in them to act as a rear sight but I've never seen a scope base with a front sight.
Thanks.
Hopefully better late than never.
They are backup sites, meant only to be a "better than nothing" solution. The front site is a blade pinned into the front pedestal. The back is a flip up peep from a mini-14 dovetailed into the rear scope mount. This barrel with integral pedestals was made by Wells Sport Shop in AZ, long since defunct.
The rifle is handy, but I am not particularly a fan of the IER scope and would rather an Aimpoint.
GingerPatches
03-24-13, 18:45
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/ecdbcd/image_zps0829584f.jpg
Ruger 77 compact in .243. Super handy and right at 7lbs. ready-to-go. I really loathe the action quality, but it gets the job done.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/ecdbcd/image_zps0829584f.jpg
Ruger 77 compact in .243. Super handy and right at 7lbs. ready-to-go. I really loathe the action quality, but it gets the job done.
Tell us about the sling (origin) and the doohickies at the swivles.
GingerPatches
03-24-13, 19:51
It is one of Todd's slings from Art of the Rifle, the RS1.
http://artoftherifle.blogspot.com/p/store.html
The doohickies and just swivel silencers to reduce squeak and noise.
ICANHITHIMMAN
03-24-13, 21:16
**** I want one of these someone buy my 300 win WTF!:D
It is one of Todd's slings from Art of the Rifle, the RS1.
http://artoftherifle.blogspot.com/p/store.html
The doohickies and just swivel silencers to reduce squeak and noise.
I've been using 2 of Todd's slings for awhile & am amazed at the quality to price ratio. Well thought out designs, nice execution & reasonably priced too.
auto_luver
06-30-13, 02:50
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc511/autoluver/ruger_scout_308_zps6275a79e.jpg
Averageman
07-02-13, 19:46
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r263/Averageman1/TankerG002_zps762c484a.jpg (http://s146.photobucket.com/user/Averageman1/media/TankerG002_zps762c484a.jpg.html)
Tanker G
Smith Comp
Burris variable scout scope
Shuff did the scout mount and went over the rifle for me, changed a few minor things.
Shuff is the best guy to work with on something like this. Asked me if I was willing to make some changes, quoted me a price and I got it back in 3 weeks.
auto_luver
07-13-13, 17:03
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc511/autoluver/ruger_scout_zps2311d5ba.jpg
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p313/madcatjoe/2012-09-05_09-32-17_570.jpg
I think I may have to get something like this. I like the way this looks.
Not to shabby at 100 yards with a 2.5x scout scope. I know the rifle can do better so I just have to do my part and do a better job shooting the Rifle. After I get my hunting loads in I will re-zero the rifle with a 200 yard zero.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/Steel85/IMAG0202.jpg (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/Steel85/media/IMAG0202.jpg.html)
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/Steel85/20130813_152236_zps73f5ebb1.jpg (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/Steel85/media/20130813_152236_zps73f5ebb1.jpg.html)
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/Steel85/20130813_152225_zpse983e08f.jpg (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/Steel85/media/20130813_152225_zpse983e08f.jpg.html)
http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l590/RowlandParks/Firearms/0052_zpsb60eebfe.jpg (http://s1125.photobucket.com/user/RowlandParks/media/Firearms/0052_zpsb60eebfe.jpg.html)
Tell us about the sling (origin) and the doohickies at the swivles.
http://rifle-craft.com/product-category/rifle-slings/
They are really good slings. They are elastic covers, if you need to cover and/or silence them some. He needs to give the sling a half twist at the front end. (when slinging up, the sling won't bite into the wrist)
http://rifle-craft.com/product/rs1-reinforced-loop-sling/
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g345/jfernett/20130927_192957_zps1703bfb2.jpg (http://s1097.photobucket.com/user/jfernett/media/20130927_192957_zps1703bfb2.jpg.html)
My GSR with a Nikon Buckmaster 3-9X40. My new favorite rifle
Moonlight Again
12-12-13, 17:55
The Scout rifle has been one of my favorite theories/concepts in rifles pretty much since I figured out that rifles were cool. I have read, and thought, and calculated on the issue. I've only got on pseudo-Scout now, a Swedish Mauser with a 16.25" barrel. Pseudo because it doesn't make weight, although in nearly every way I prefer the 6.5x55 to the .308.
If I am remembering rightly, there were two rifles that Cooper specifically referred to as inspirations for the Scout concept. The two were the Winchester 94 in .30 WCF, and the Mannlicher-Schonauer 6.5x54. I know that in his Commentaries he also referenced setting up a rifle for a left handed buddy at Stanford. His solution then was a peep sighted Savage 99 in .300 Savage.
Today when we think of the Scout rifle, we tend to think in terms of the answers Cooper came up with. That is, a bolt action with controlled round feed, chambered in .308/7.62x51mm, with a lightweight 18-19" barrel, with a forward mounted intermediate eye relief scope, a synthetic stock, fitted with a Ching sling and (perhaps) a bipod. The weight and length specifications were three kilos all up (later amended to 3.5 kilos) and a one meter length. When I was younger, that's what I wanted: the full package, all the way down the line.
As I've gotten older and (hopefully) wiser, I've come to the conclusion that it's not so much the answers Cooper came up with as the questions he was asking, the goal he had set: a light, handy, general purpose carbine. And there's lots of ways to skin that cat. Given that Cooper despised and disdained the 5.56 as good for nothing more than shooting poodles, what I'm about to say is heresy, and they'll revoke my Cooper Trooper card, but so what? A Marlin 336 with a Leupold VXR 1.25-4x is a damn fine Scout-type rifle. An M4 with an ACOG is a damn fine Scout-type rifle. If we're willing to abandon the 7.62x51*----and Cooper was, later on in life----I'd advance the proposition that a 6.8 SPC or a 6.5 Grendel on an AR platform would pretty much be the tits.
I know that for a while there Alexander Arms was building a sub-six pound 6.5 Grendel (http://www.gunblast.com/Alexander-65Lightweight.htm), which could make up into a passable Scoutish, or even Scout, rifle.
Hey, that's my thoughts. Am I full of shit?
* Initially Cooper specified the .308 Winnie not only for its ballistics and case size but for its wide availability, while later in life he theorized that "you pack your ammo in" vice relying on local resupply. This could have been a justification for his Lion Scout, the Steyr in .376.
Bruce in WV
12-13-13, 19:54
22085
Old school M38 Swede 6.5x55, shortened bbl and parkerized, action job, B&C stock, Burris Scout scope, Ching sling on QD bases
1859sharps
02-10-14, 18:16
Today when we think of the Scout rifle, we tend to think in terms of the answers Cooper came up with.....
As I've gotten older and (hopefully) wiser, I've come to the conclusion that it's not so much the answers Cooper came up with as the questions he was asking....
I would also toss in he was trying to solve problems he had learned/noticed/experienced over his life time.
I would agree with those that take the interpretation of the scout rifle as being a flexible concept. Yet I do think there are some close to in stone criteria such as weight and handiness and caliber. if the rifle is a "pain" to carry for more than an hour or two from being too heavy, I think Cooper would say that would violate the concept, as would a rifle that is to long making it difficult to maneuver with through brush, or if the caliber was not sufficient for taking both man and typical beasts.
While Cooper clearly had a bias against 223/556 that may or may not be valid in all situations/application, I think it is accurate and right to say that this isn't a scout caliber. yes you can put down a human with it, but the concept of the scout rifle isn't purely about defending against humans, it is also about providing food for survival which means hunting. so while some calibers such as 223/556 defeat the purpose, I can't say that as long as you can make weight of the rifle, or that your caliber of choice can take down something up to the weight he specificed that you are "stuck" 308 or you don't have a scout.
The thing we forget about Cooper is he was ALWAYS looking for something better. but it had to prove to be better, it couldn't just be a theoretical claim of better. The scout rifle concept has stagnated a bit with his death because of an over dependence on Coopers blessing or it wasn't a scout or an improvement. But I have NOT doubt in my mind if he were alive today he wouldn't be satisfied with status quo, he would be out there experimenting and looking to improve the concept.
Take the scope, while he was very partial to the forward mount and makes a convincing case for it, he wasn't particularly fond of or tied to the Leupold scope. But at the time it was the best option to meet his goals, providing a satisfactory solution to his "problems". If he were alive to day, given the advances in red dot scopes that didn't exist at time of his death, I can't help but think he would be testing them out and sharing his thoughts. And maybe even replacing the Leupold with one.
That is what separates Cooper and men like him from most of us, they become "the authority" in part because they don't rest, they are out there trying new things and not just at the range, but in the field really putting theories, ideas, and equipment to the test.
The steyr scout rifle simply represents the closest thing to the ideal scout at the time it was originally produced. NOTHING says if you have a better mouse trap and follow the core concepts, weight, handiness, useful cartridge for both game and man up the weight he provided, that what you come up with can't also be a scout. as other have pointed out there is very little "in stone" with the concept.
WickedWillis
02-10-14, 18:25
For us uneducated people, what constitutes a scout rifle? Just what Jeff Cooper was referring to or are their other variables?
1859sharps
02-10-14, 23:01
For us uneducated people, what constitutes a scout rifle? Just what Jeff Cooper was referring to or are their other variables?
Technically the term is not copyrighted or otherwise protected. So I suppose anyone can come up with their own definition and set of specifications for what they feel a "scout rifle" is.
However, if we are talking in terms of what Cooper defined as a scout rifle, there are a few details/specifications that in my opinion do need to be followed pretty much "in stone", but the rest is open to variation and change as technology improves and something better comes a long.
Below is taken from http://www.steyrscout.org/project.htm and the bold print is what I personally feel are really the only "in stone" parts. again, just my personal opinion for what it's worth.
By the definition of the Scout Rifle Conferences held under the auspices of Jeff Cooper the scout rifle has been defined as a general purpose rifle suitable for taking targets of up to 400 kg (880 pounds) at ranges to the limit of the shooters visibility (nominally 300 meters) that meets the following criteria:
Weight-sighted and slung: 3 kilograms (6.6 lb). This has been set as the ideal weight but the maximum has been stated as being 3.5 kg (7.7 pounds ).
Length: 1 meter (39 inches)
Nominal barrel length: .48 meter (19 inches)
Sighting system: Typically a forward and low mounted (ahead of the action opening) long eye relief telescope of between 2x and 3x. Reserve iron sights desirable but not necessary. Iron sights of the ghost ring type, without a scope, also qualify, as does a low powered conventional position scope.
Action: Magazine fed bolt action. Detachable box magazine and/or stripper clip charging is desirable but not necessary.
Sling: Fast loop-up type, i.e. Ching or CW style.
Caliber: Nominally .308 Winchester (7.62 x 51 mm). Calibers such as 7 mm - 08 Remington (7 x 51 mm) or .243 Winchester (6 x 51 mm) being considered for frail individuals or where "military" calibers are proscribed.
Built-in bipod: Desirable but not mandatory.
Accuracy: Should be capable of shooting into 2 minutes of angle or less (4") at 200 yards/meters (3 shot groups).
the rest represents the best that was available technology wise and experience wise at the time it was written.
http://www.google.com/search?q=jeff+cooper+scout+rifle&sa=X&nord=1&site=webhp&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ei=nEn6UseBGuSd2gWe54DAAg&ved=0CC8QsAQ&biw=1016&bih=558
Here's mine. A LH Gunsite Scout (.308) with a Leupold Scout scope, XS Sights rail, 3-point sling by Andt, and a Black River Tactical compensator.
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j374/msbeam1/trigger004.jpg (http://s1082.photobucket.com/user/msbeam1/media/trigger004.jpg.html)
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j374/msbeam1/BRTCompensator002.jpg (http://s1082.photobucket.com/user/msbeam1/media/BRTCompensator002.jpg.html)
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j374/msbeam1/trigger003.jpg (http://s1082.photobucket.com/user/msbeam1/media/trigger003.jpg.html)
Here's mine. A LH Gunsite Scout (.308) with a Leupold Scout scope, XS Sights rail, 3-point sling by Andt, and a Black River Tactical compensator.
Can you offer any input on the Blackriver Tactical compensator? How does it affect the recoil and sound?
Can you offer any input on the Blackriver Tactical compensator? How does it affect the recoil and sound?
I find the BRT compensator reduces the felt sound shock wave a lot because it sends the sound down range. It also helps to reduce the felt recoil. I like it. You can find it here:
http://www.blackrivertactical.com/concrete5/covert-comp/
By the way, it installs without a compression washer (not recommended by BRT).
Boba Fett v2
02-12-15, 06:32
http://imageshack.com/a/img540/2629/gpwVof.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img631/6788/Sw9FZ9.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img673/9444/rhWaMj.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img913/5987/MonC4X.jpg
The Dumb Gun Collector
02-13-15, 21:43
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7329/16275016537_94c74fec81_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qNaHpp)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/qNaHpp) by stoiclawyer (https://www.flickr.com/people/52942291@N00/), on Flickr
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7312/15840840763_d6a4494d27_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/q8Ns5c)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/q8Ns5c) by stoiclawyer (https://www.flickr.com/people/52942291@N00/), on Flickr
Quickly becoming my "go-to" rifle. Certainly a lot more practical than tactical.
Closest thing I have to a scout rifle, 16" 308 with a 2.5-10 vortex on top. HS Precision bottom metal and mags are in the works.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/nf9648/02/IMG_0301_zps94123817.jpg
I just picked this one up. Love the smooth Steyr action.
http://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r616/Undefineduser45/Guns/FullSizeRender_zps8d04ae1c.jpg (http://s1174.photobucket.com/user/Undefineduser45/media/Guns/FullSizeRender_zps8d04ae1c.jpg.html)
I've found this has way too much scope on it for what I intended, but the Tikka CTR is pretty nice (this one's in .260)36792
http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb465/wsquared13/d2de3dd4-60ca-403b-9d36-9edbb3de2b95.jpg
Ruger Gunsite Scout with a Galco Safari Ching sling and a Leupold 1.5-5X33 scout scope. It's been my primary hunting rifle for the past two years.
Here's my new Steyr Scout rifle in .308. Mine has the 1/2-20 threaded barrel. I purchased an adapter from Tac Driver's at Gunsite and my Omega suppressor mounts perfectly. Still searching for the right scope.
SamM
37907
37908
Here is my SA M1 with a Burris 2x7 pistol scope. Ultimak mount
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/HamourKiller/Miltary%20Rifles/2015%20phone%20pis%20and%20videos%20280.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/HamourKiller/media/Miltary%20Rifles/2015%20phone%20pis%20and%20videos%20280.jpg.html)
This was shot at 100 yds with the rifle and I was using PPU Ball Mexican Matched with Nosler 155 HPBT
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/HamourKiller/Miltary%20Rifles/2015%20phone%20pis%20and%20videos%20277.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/HamourKiller/media/Miltary%20Rifles/2015%20phone%20pis%20and%20videos%20277.jpg.html)
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd391/marineair/FullSizeRender_zpss3bkihjk.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/marineair/media/FullSizeRender_zpss3bkihjk.jpg.html)
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd391/marineair/IMG_5632_zpsjcqtmzic.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/marineair/media/IMG_5632_zpsjcqtmzic.jpg.html)
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd391/marineair/IMG_5462_zpsrxmeblqs.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/marineair/media/IMG_5462_zpsrxmeblqs.jpg.html)
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd391/marineair/IMG_5097_zps7rm1l4mx.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/marineair/media/IMG_5097_zps7rm1l4mx.jpg.html)
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd391/marineair/IMG_5499_zpssoo3gvce.jpg (http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/marineair/media/IMG_5499_zpssoo3gvce.jpg.html)
Custom FR-8 Spanish Mauser scout. The irons co-witness through the Aimpoint. This is an older pic... the muzzle device has been replaced by a 3-prong Silencerco flash hider mount, so I can use my Omega on it.
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk201/henschman/guns/C4162889-E6FC-4493-9632-D9087EA29D7B_zpsbckd0hh0.jpg
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk201/henschman/guns/15BC25D1-7314-425E-B8D7-5DD488A31614_zpsf3mrfclk.jpg
Finally, got a scope mounted on my .308 Steyr Scout. It's a Leupold 3-9x42mm VX-R Patrol. My Steyr is more of a general purpose rifle rather than a true Scout. The suppressor makes it barrel heavy but the Patrol offsets that nicely. The first 3 shots of Winchester 168gr Slivertips were just above the bullseye. With the Omega it shot a little low. I'm very happy with it.
SamM
38405
38406
The Dumb Gun Collector
03-17-16, 22:45
Love that. I need to find one of those threaded scouts.
My Scout rifle was purchased directly from Steyr. It originally had the Mud colored stock. They swapped it out for the black stock at no cost. The barrel threads are the odd European 1/2-20. Steyr now makes an adapter to the more common 5/8-24 thread pattern. I use it with my SilencerCo Omega suppressor. It has a conventionally mounted Leupold 3-9X-40 Patrol riflescope. I bought it to use as a lightweight general purpose rifle.
SamM
43209
MountainRaven
04-02-16, 13:00
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a198/Jagdraben/FullSizeRender-9_zps32h4ud6v.jpg
Eurodriver
04-02-16, 15:23
You stop posting pics of that before I am forced to buy it...
You stop posting pics of that before I am forced to buy it...
No shit. Please do it before I get drunk enough to take it. This is the year of the AR and more cans for me. Why do things like this keep popping up?
MountainRaven
04-02-16, 17:48
Well, I have good news of a sort and bad news of a sort:
The good news is that it hasn't sold (yet) and the bad news is that I have a camera phone and may take more pictures.
Insert evil laugh here.
MountainRaven
04-09-16, 14:57
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a198/Jagdraben/IMG_1100_zpsgquo29ql.jpg
With my "squirtgun" and my other Jeff Cooper-ism. (Will be cross-posted to the 1911 picture thread.)
This is one I made from an FR-8 Spanish Mauser.
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk201/henschman/guns/0E57BDFA-C217-4E25-B6C6-A2FD9B1C6C6F_zpshrqnl4xt.jpg
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk201/henschman/guns/B0E38C27-78C8-4784-B55F-6963A2429E5D_zpsbg45dqlt.jpg
The Dumb Gun Collector
04-15-16, 00:59
Love those FR-8s!
M44 scout rifle
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn1/John_Stahlman/20160508_172104_zpsjyy7b8gm.jpg?t=1462670737
Just picked this up yesterday.
Ruger American Ranch Rifle in .300BLK.
AAC 7.62 Flash Hider
Nikon ProStaff 3x9 40
Paracord sling.
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n79/DarkPhoenixTSi/TEOTWAWKI/Firearms%20-%20New%20and%20Old/rugerhk_zpscwm6t9nt.jpg (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/DarkPhoenixTSi/media/TEOTWAWKI/Firearms%20-%20New%20and%20Old/rugerhk_zpscwm6t9nt.jpg.html)
My buddy had an AAC can that is lying around his shop, so he slapped it on to see how the rifle handled. And also to show me that I need a can.
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n79/DarkPhoenixTSi/TEOTWAWKI/Firearms%20-%20New%20and%20Old/Rugeraac_zpsxfcholah.jpg (http://s109.photobucket.com/user/DarkPhoenixTSi/media/TEOTWAWKI/Firearms%20-%20New%20and%20Old/Rugeraac_zpsxfcholah.jpg.html)
My Savage Scout, with Burris 2-7x Scout in Warne QD rings. GA Recce 7 suppressor. Not pictured is a Wilderness Tactical ching sling. Cheap stock saddle.
mattpittinger
02-10-17, 14:04
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170210/65ec003c9600eb18808d0c568c211cb0.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170210/23565d5dc61f49131d9f64d4c2afcf7f.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The Dumb Gun Collector
11-06-18, 16:31
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1936/44967150494_e96f428988_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2bvApdb)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2bvApdb) by stoiclawyer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/52942291@N00/), on Flickr
Lost River
12-30-18, 10:13
The daughter's "Practical rifle".
I wanted to build her one, all around rifle. This is the final iteration. We started with a standard T3 .308 and cut the barrel to 20"s and had a brake installed. A wood stock was purchased and cut down for the years that she could not handle a full size stock. That worked out quite well.
Now her younger siblings will use that stock on their own T3s as they come of age.
The her rifle has worn 3 scopes. The 2.5-8 Leupold went back to the mothership 2 times as it would not track properly, before I finally sold it. Then I had an older American made Burris 3x9 on it. Great scope, but we hunt in areas where longer shots are the norm, so something different was called for. The SWFA 6X has proven to be a good choice. The daughter likes to dial for shots beyond what the rifle is zeroed for, so the turrets are ideal and the reticle is easy for her to understand when I am training with her.
With a 300 yard zero, she is very comfortable out to 400 yards, which is plenty far enough at this point in her shooting career.
http://i.imgur.com/pHkhMAG.jpg (https://imgur.com/pHkhMAG)
http://i.imgur.com/9H5ShJX.jpg (https://imgur.com/9H5ShJX)
Mine is below:
And the cow elk I took before Christmas.
http://i.imgur.com/TH12NvO.jpg (https://imgur.com/TH12NvO)
http://i.imgur.com/C4wmqRU.jpg?1 (https://imgur.com/C4wmqRU)
The Dumb Gun Collector
08-25-19, 18:50
Jazzed up my Scout by swapping Scopes and going Krazy with the Krylon.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48620474456_3df1ed6c97_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2h5qD9m)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2h5qD9m) by stoiclawyer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/52942291@N00/), on Flickr
daddyusmaximus
08-29-19, 13:13
Old never-used family hand-me-down Brazilian Mauser gets a new life as a Scout Rifle.
https://i.imgur.com/0ubjE08.jpg
Not finished... but close. The 20" barrel will now allow it to fit in my gun cabinet. The Surefire Warcomp (matching my ARs) will allow for suppressor use, and possibly tame the already soft 7x57 recoil. The Vortex 2-7x32 is good at 2 to 4, but you kinda have to stretch your neck when you crank it up to 7. It may not stay. Thinking Leupold, or just a red dot. Then again, this rifle not built for high power optics... Could only find a scope cap for the objective lens at the LGS. I'll have to order one for the ocular lens if I keep it. It sits on a left over piece of picatinny rail section bolted to the milled rear sight base. The original plan was just have the scope mount sticking out through the top wood, but I seen that Hogue stock... The Hogue stock speaks for itself... so comfy. Had to have it.
Straight bolt was fine. Just got the bent bolt because the Hogue stock had a cut out for one, and would look weird with the straight bolt, but it works real well. I move my hand just the smallest bit, and the handle is right there. Good call Mr. Gunsmith.
Still up in the air on sights. Waiting on more funds, and finding ones that won't get in the way of stripper clip feeding. I may also spring for the XS scout scope mount in the future now that I went with the Hogue stock, as the modified original kinda looks clunky, but it does work...
daddyusmaximus
09-03-19, 19:42
The Vortex scout scope I selected turned out to be not to my liking... at all. The eye relief changed quite a bit when you zoomed in to anything above 4 power. It got sent back today. I'll probably go either Leupold or Burris. Midway send me a prepaid return shipping label, so that was cool.
A few pics of my Ruger scout in .308 with synthetic stock and the XS sights rail.
59262
First blood
59265
With the Leupold freedom scout scope
59264
Current set up
59263
Family photo
daddyusmaximus
10-27-19, 13:31
I went with a Hi-Lux (still a 2-7) I found on Ebay for cheap. It still changes eye relief when you crank it up to 7, but not as bad as the Vortex, and it's not like you really need 7 power on a scout rifle anyhow, so I'm just gonna leave it as is. It will sit on 3 power for the most part anyway.
https://i.imgur.com/DXWht9I.jpg
just a scout
11-04-19, 17:32
I like the illuminated reticle on that. I wish the Burris was illuminated.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
daddyusmaximus
02-11-20, 08:20
Really liking the 7mm Mauser round. Went and got me a second rifle in the caliber, a 1916 Spanish Mauser. With the red dot, it's scout-ish.
https://i.imgur.com/pwP9reS.jpg
daddyusmaximus
02-29-20, 12:39
https://i.imgur.com/FOTK9MZ.jpg
daddyusmaximus
03-15-20, 13:14
That photo is dark, it's a nicer day out today...
https://i.imgur.com/abqQTV4.jpg
A few pics of my Ruger scout in .308 with synthetic stock and the XS sights rail.
59262
First blood
Red deer?
daddyusmaximus
08-14-20, 23:34
It's like Wife Swap".
The Spanish Mauser is a Scout Rifle now, and the red dot is on the Lee Enfield.
The faster bolt action, and 10 round magazine makes it the better battle rifle, and the slimness, (no mag sticking out the bottom) and flat shooting 7mm Mauser is the better Scout Rifle...
https://i.imgur.com/aXezU0R.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/yA4iNEN.jpg
I've got to admit, it looks like you put a lot of effort into that Enfield. Beautiful rifle! My GSR.
https://i.imgur.com/foCZpXY.jpg?1
Pretty generic, but it fits the bill.
Savage Scout FCM10
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cmGGfIHC5hpDY4Lat6AzsmcIWWF4BGA3i_DpMr1mkMhGGV-ApNM5PgfyUbUMaYFulyfTeKrpumyNgN9GV3hSKSJtwR1OUnIGerNiUAGNc-ksn1BifkU2jT3H2UJVQh0atErws-sAoBWtdZuP8bKKdj=w1440-h812-no?authuser=0
daddyusmaximus
10-25-20, 11:19
Pretty generic, but it fits the bill.
Savage Scout FCM10
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cmGGfIHC5hpDY4Lat6AzsmcIWWF4BGA3i_DpMr1mkMhGGV-ApNM5PgfyUbUMaYFulyfTeKrpumyNgN9GV3hSKSJtwR1OUnIGerNiUAGNc-ksn1BifkU2jT3H2UJVQh0atErws-sAoBWtdZuP8bKKdj=w1440-h812-no?authuser=0
Savage make a fine rifle. I was gonna ask how it shoots, but I can see you haven't even taken the "new gun" stickers off it yet.
LOL. I kept them on because Savage changed their logo and I don’t care for the new one.
It shoots great by the way. 🙂
Savage make a fine rifle. I was gonna ask how it shoots, but I can see you haven't even taken the "new gun" stickers off it yet.
I kind of went cheap with a Ruger American bolt in .450 BM with an older Pentax 4x and a bipod. No complaints.
daddyusmaximus
03-23-21, 00:14
Really liking the 7mm Mauser round. Went and got me a second rifle in the caliber, a 1916 Spanish Mauser. With the red dot, it's scout-ish.
https://i.imgur.com/pwP9reS.jpg
Changed up a bit... Now it's a Mannlicher Scout... Red dot is on the No4 Mk1.
https://i.imgur.com/ahNMVoc.jpg
65629
Here is my Steyr in 6.5 Creedmoor. Part of me wishes it was a .308. I really like it nonetheless. (A good excuse for another rifle) The Ching sling is so good, I’m not sure why it isn’t more popular.
I have a lot of rifles. I simply make hits easier in the field with this set up than anything else I have tried.
I think it will be going bear hunting with me in August.
1859sharps
07-13-21, 10:57
65629 The Ching sling is so good, I’m not sure why it isn’t more popular.
Shooting slings are often misunderstood, toss in the tunnel vision on all things "tactical", it's not actually that surprising people do not understanding the Ching sling. But even as good a shooting sling as the Ching is, it comes up short as a carry sling. and scout rifles are rifles designed with A LOT of carrying in mind as you hike around your hunting grounds looking for game, a sling that doesn't function well as a carry sling can be a turn off to some.
An alternate sling that incorporates the positives of the Ching, but doubles as a carry is the Galco Riflemann sling. yes, two n in the name as it is named after scout rifle study author richard mann.
As much as I love the Ching sling, I am playing with the riflemann sling and very like will transition to it.
Re: the Riflemann, I’m aware of it, but it seems overly complicated. I’ll look it over if I ever find one in the wild.
I carry the scout several miles most weeks and don’t find the Ching nearly as lacking as a Rhodesian sling. I also often carry the scout at the action, as intended. Notice the grip tape over the action in the photo above. A modified left shoulder African carry can expedite the transition to sling up with the Ching as well.
1859sharps
07-14-21, 13:12
I have also found the ching sling and African carry to be pretty compatible.
couple good videos to help anyone struggling with scout rifles and the traditionally used slings.
https://youtu.be/xa7jA5IJqrg
https://youtu.be/uf93qY1z7dE
certainly not the only ways, but some good food for thought to get you started if anyone is struggling with this.
and of course a video by the man him self, Richard, explaining the riflemann sling if anyone is not familiar with it.
https://youtu.be/6OI_aNbs294
Here is my Steyr in 6.5 Creedmoor. Part of me wishes it was a .308.
Why? 6.5 Creedmoor seems superior in just about every way.
1859sharps
07-16-21, 21:41
Why? 6.5 Creedmoor seems superior in just about every way.
Cartridge superiority is not 100% a fixed fact like the law of gravity. context matters, and within the context of scout rifles, it is not superior in every way. In fact the 308 still has some things going for it within the context of scout rifles that give it a slight edge. Enough that choosing 308 can still make a huge amount of sense.
308 has virtual world wide availability. So if you hunt around the world, 308 make sense over 6.5 creed. (I expect to see this advantage fade if 6.5creed catches on outside the US at the same level it did here)
308 has longer barrel life.
308 has wider range of bullet options allowing for a wider range of uses.
308 has a wider range of powders if you reload.
The really juicy attributes of the 6.5 creedmoor do not really kick in till you start talking uses that fall outside the context of scout rifles. But it does have one attribute over 308 given one goal of the scout rifle, to be as light as possible, and that is felt recoil. Though proper shooting technique does negate most if not all of the "ouch" factor of a 308 in a light rifle. If it hurts to shoot a scout, consider the possibility you have an error in mounting the rifle. on the other hand...if it never hurts...your either a master riflemen, or your scout rifle is too heavy.
if you chose a scout rifle in 6.5 creed, you didn't choose poorly. 6.5 creed can do a lot of the same things a 308 can hunting wise just fine.
if you chose a scout rifle in 308, you also didn't choose poorly. It can make the head of a 6.5 creed fanboy explode to hear, but the 308 does offer some advantages still in this context. and ballistics for scout rifle purposes are close enough that you are not at any disadvantage.
If you want to talk PRS style shooting, well that is a whole other context and brings out different thoughts and data points to consider when asking 308 or 6.5 creedmoor.
I think the above sums it up well.
My thoughts are:
6.5 has superior external ballistics and the difference increases with range and decreases with barrel length. For a similar bullet weight, it also has better sectional density. In other ways, .308 is advantageous.
Logistics- .308 is cheap, even now, and readily available just about everywhere.
.308 barrels last longer under similar circumstances.
The above mean you can practice more, and
practice matters more than caliber.
At typical hunting ranges, I’d like the option of a heavy bullet for large game, or bears. Think 180 grain Barnes….The biggest 6.5 bullet I have seen is 156 gr.
I have a .28 Nosler and a nice GAP 6.5 PRC for long range, and a 6mm and several other 6.5 creedmoors if I want to shoot PRS.
That’s not really what this gun is for. I’m not shooting steel or paper with it much. I’m carrying it, and throwing it in the truck.
Scout Rifle you say? Israeli Mauser in 7.62x51, 16” barrel. Redfield receiver sight, XS scope mount, 2x pistol scope, Choate stock, Timney trigger, butter knife bolt handle. It started as a Century Arms import from Guatemala around 30 years ago. The stock was rotten, the barrel was bulged at 17”, missing parts and looking like it had been buried in the jungle, which it likely was.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52127072240_18988e0645_z.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52126572976_96fc86a2fa_z.jpg
Hard to beat a 98 for serious bolt guns. Who did the work? How does the scout mount attach?
Hard to beat a 98 for serious bolt guns. Who did the work? How does the scout mount attach?
Local gunsmith in Keizer Oregon for the scope mount which slides over the barrel where the old rear sight was and a spacer ring was added under the front of the mount. I believe it’s held in place with Acuglass or something similar. The barrel and bolt work was done some 30 odd years an ago by an old gunsmith who retired shortly after finishing. This was a work in progress for 30 years, sold and bought back twice to one friend and the estate of another.
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