View Full Version : Silver State Armory 5.56 64gr PPT Bonded
GRWolverineFan
01-14-12, 08:06
I did a search for this ammo but didn't see anything about anyone testing it. The gel pictures from the SSA catolog look pretty good but I would tend to trust Dr. Roberts far more than promotional material
It is an interesting round to me given the fact that it is a bonded 64gr round loaded to 5.56 pressures. Has anyone used this round, and if so, how did you like it? It looks like an affordable ($1 per round) barrier blind 5.56 option for those of us who can't access the LE purchasing system.
It is on our list to test in 2012.
How much should 5.56 pressure be a deciding factor with barrier blind bullets?
GRWolverineFan
01-14-12, 12:24
How much should 5.56 pressure be a deciding factor with barrier blind bullets?
Honestly you probably know far better than me, I just assumed (yeah, I know what they say about that :laugh:) that a 5.56 round would probably work better out of a 16" or shorter barrel but I could just be FoS.
I am also unsure of the quality of SSA ammo, do they usually make good stuff?
Honestly you probably know far better than me, I just assumed (yeah, I know what they say about that :laugh:) that a 5.56 round would probably work better out of a 16" or shorter barrel but I could just be FoS.
I am also unsure of the quality of SSA ammo, do they usually make good stuff?
i have been trying for weeks to get a solid answer to this ever since i stumbled upon the 64gr ppt. the 70gr tsx load looks nice too at 2750 fps from a 16". a week later and 17 forums later, i still cant get solid confirmation on the reliability aspect of ssa's ammo.
SSA has worked pretty well.
Honestly you probably know far better than me, I just assumed (yeah, I know what they say about that :laugh:) that a 5.56 round would probably work better out of a 16" or shorter barrel but I could just be FoS.
I have a 6.8 as a go to so I have not really looked at the difference. Everyone looks for 5.56 pressure defensive ammo because of the limited fragmentation velocity, while the bonded designs may upset at lower velocities.
here is what i "know" via ssa'a web site and emails to ssa"s customer service. it is much like a tbbc in construction with a more protected tip, (should be good for you -leading on the feed ramp guys) expands to .46 caliber, expands with in the first 2"-4" or penetration, expands down to 1700 fps, muzzle velocity of 2850 from a 16" barrel. and i assume penetration is comparable to other bb loads....probably 16"-18" in bg, but im not sure on that one.
Does it bother anyone else tha ssa uses nothing in regards to primer crimps or sealant? I think ammo intended for "real deal" use should have some kind of water proofing, crimps, cannalures, ext.... ssa uses nothing.
Does it bother anyone else tha ssa uses nothing in regards to primer crimps or sealant? I think ammo intended for "real deal" use should have some kind of water proofing, crimps, cannalures, ext.... ssa uses nothing.
Not in the least.
Brandon
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
"I think ammo intended for "real deal" use should have some kind of water proofing, crimps, cannalures, etc..."
Yes, duty ammo should have all of the above.
Really? Why not? Why do have no regard for those things on your duty ammo? Not trying to sound like an ass.....just trying to learn.
Really? Why not? Why do have no regard for those things on your duty ammo? Not trying to sound like an ass.....just trying to learn.
Do you do the same when you handload? If it goes bang after sitting in a bag while hunting and it's humid, snowy, or conditions are not ideal then I'd say it's safe for duty. Maybe I'm off base here but I don't see it as a necessity in my case. Never had a FTF in ssa ammo.
Brandon
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
I can see your point. It may just be because I'm used to having those features on duty ammo or maybe its just a mental thing, but I like sealant and crimps when I can have it. I have no idea if it actually makes any differance one way or anouther.
When hunting, if your ammo fails, you dont get some game.
With "duty" ammo (le/mil duty ammo and even civilian defensive ammo) if your ammo fails, you die.
"It's better to have and not need than to need and not have."
When your life is on the line, the reliability of your ammo and firearm cannot be too good. There is a reason military and FBI ammo is always sealed and always has a crimped primer, and neck. There is also a reason handloads are not recommended for defensive/duty use.
When hunting, if your ammo fails, you dont get some game.
With "duty" ammo (le/mil duty ammo and even civilian defensive ammo) if your ammo fails, you die.
"It's better to have and not need than to need and not have."
When your life is on the line, the reliability of your ammo and firearm cannot be too good. There is a reason military and FBI ammo is always sealed and always has a crimped primer, and neck. There is also a reason handloads are not recommended for defensive/duty use.
This is how I feel about it as well. That is why I question silver state armory's ammo. I wonder why they decided not to crimp/seal the ammo. I thought they were selling their ammo on the tactical market.
I am not le/mil so I can't attest to what they do for those customers.
I'll send Susan an email and see if I can get a response.
Brandon
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
Leatherneck556
01-19-12, 16:41
When hunting, if your ammo fails, you dont get some game.
With "duty" ammo (le/mil duty ammo and even civilian defensive ammo) if your ammo fails, you die.
"It's better to have and not need than to need and not have."
When your life is on the line, the reliability of your ammo and firearm cannot be too good. There is a reason military and FBI ammo is always sealed and always has a crimped primer, and neck. There is also a reason handloads are not recommended for defensive/duty use.
+1
I have had popped primers before because they weren't crimped into the brass. When you get a popped primer in an AR15, the primer goes down into the fire control group and it locks up your gun. Picture the old cartoons where they put a big wrench inside some gears, and that's exactly what happens when a primer pops and falls down into your FCG.
+1
I have had popped primers before because they weren't crimped into the brass. When you get a popped primer in an AR15, the primer goes down into the fire control group and it locks up your gun. Picture the old cartoons where they put a big wrench inside some gears, and that's exactly what happens when a primer pops and falls down into your FCG.
That is exactly what I am afraid of
+1
I have had popped primers before because they weren't crimped into the brass. When you get a popped primer in an AR15, the primer goes down into the fire control group and it locks up your gun. Picture the old cartoons where they put a big wrench inside some gears, and that's exactly what happens when a primer pops and falls down into your FCG.
Sorry to double post but.......have thees issues caused any one to turn away from silver state armory's ammo on a function level when they would of selected it on a balistic performance level if it was infact crimped in the proper way, sealed, canalured, ext.....? Because that's where I am at.
Sorry to double post but.......have thees issues caused any one to turn away from silver state armory's ammo on a function level when they would of selected it on a balistic performance level if it was infact crimped in the proper way, sealed, canalured, ext.....? Because that's where I am at.
I dont know about SSA's methods, but I wouldnt hesitate to use it for hunting, target shooting and training. However, for ammo used to protect my life, id take xm193 over something with better terminal ballistics that doesnt have the insurance behind it. In my book, reliability and training is #1 and 2. Everything else is FAR behind. There are plenty of options out that offer great terminal performance(for 5.56/.223) and are made to work under worst case conditions to give that up. A little bigger TC doesnt outweigh peace of mind IMO.
Again I dont know what ssa does and doesn't do, and I'm no professional, I'm just sharing my personal views on it as something to think about.
I agree with you 100%. It just sad because ssa makes some fine looking loads. I just don't understand why they won't protect them. I have read many threads on other forums in regards to popped primers. In my opinion ssa needs to pay more attention to what's going on.
If we crimp and mouth seal we hear it from the guy's who reload, they hate it. Mouth selant can also effect accuracy and dirty up your weapon. We have not had any request from LE gency's for selant or crimping, if we did we would comply.
We test our rounds in lot tuffer conditions then 99% of LE or the public will but the ammunition thru, such as full auto's and extreme tempertures. To date we have not had any reports of a blown primers with this round from any LE or Hog hunters that use this round.
This round is just like the Bear Claw and meets FBI protocal for barrier blind. We have sent some rounds awhile back to DocGKR for testing but I am sure he is a busy man.
Art - SSA
Art--Thank you for commenting. As noted, the SSA 64 gr will be one of the first loads we test this year. I do think is it important for duty ammo to have crimped primers and waterproofing--cannelures can also be important, depending on the specific load.
Does SSA manufacture this projectile or is it purchased from a vendor? If outsourced, what company makes it? Does the projectile have a solid rear shank like a TBBC?
A few weeks back, I exchanged E-mails with a gentleman at SSA who said that SSA 5.56 ammunition is crimped top and bottom just without sealant. Back in 2008, I purchased ten boxes of SSA 5.56 70 grain TSX that was crimped and sealed top and bottom. Now the word is that SSA does not crimp. There has been mention of primers popping on the 70 gr. TSX loads so maybe it is a real problem. In any case, don't get me wrong, as I am a fan of the SSA catalog lineup. I just want to know exactly what I will receive for $1.00+ per round.
A few weeks back, I exchanged E-mails with a gentleman at SSA who said that SSA 5.56 ammunition is crimped top and bottom just without sealant. Back in 2008, I purchased ten boxes of SSA 5.56 70 grain TSX that was crimped and sealed top and bottom. Now the word is that SSA does not crimp. There has been mention of primers popping on the 70 gr. TSX loads so maybe it is a real problem. In any case, don't get me wrong, as I am a fan of the SSA catalog lineup. I just want to know exactly what I will receive for $1.00+ per round.
What he said.
A few weeks back, I exchanged E-mails with a gentleman at SSA who said that SSA 5.56 ammunition is crimped top and bottom just without sealant. Back in 2008, I purchased ten boxes of SSA 5.56 70 grain TSX that was crimped and sealed top and bottom. Now the word is that SSA does not crimp. There has been mention of primers popping on the 70 gr. TSX loads so maybe it is a real problem. In any case, don't get me wrong, as I am a fan of the SSA catalog lineup. I just want to know exactly what I will receive for $1.00+ per round.
I am sorry I have not heard of poped primers with our 70 grains TSX rounds if there is a thread please provide a link to it. Our records indicate that we have not primer crimped and mouth sealed any SSA rounds with SSA case's that made it to the commercial market. A few years back we purchased some Lake City primed brass that may have had crimped and sealed primers but we did not mouth seal them.
All our projectile's have a collet crimp which gives lower SD's verse's roll crimps. With the vast majority of our sales on the 70 TSX, 45 TSX and 64 grain bonded going to LE I reviewed our records for the past two years and we have not had one complaint on either one on these rounds from any LE agency.
Art - SSA
Does the 64gr bonded projectile have a solid rear shank like a TBBC?
I guess they don't know...maybe Nosler will know. I'll contact them.
I guess they don't know...maybe Nosler will know. I'll contact them.
The projectile does not have a solid base like the Bear Claw. The jacket at the base is heavier than normal. I have asked our IT guy to post a gel picture and a picture of an unfired bullet on our site. When he has it up I will post a link to it.
This projectile met all FBI requirements and I was told it pass thru a windsheild at a 63 degree angle of attack.
Art - SSA
I use ssa 70gr tsx whenever I can afford it. It's been 100% reliable.
The link below will take you to our site. Pictures of the gel, unfired bullet and the expanded bullet from the gel is pictured.
http://www.ssarmory.com/556ammunition_SSA_PPT_Bonded.aspx
Art - SSA
If you click several times on the gel picture it will enlarge to about 1/3 of the screen, gel shot was at 100 yards.
Art - SSA
Doc, is it too early to revisit this? Have you tested any of the 64gr ppt yet?
any new info on this load?
The 64ppt is the nosler bonded solid base and unless they get it made to a different spec it does have a solid base like the tbbc. I have spoke to nosler and they verified the solid base. The bullets ssa uses do not have canellure, but the bullets used in the winchester loading does have a canellure.
If you go to sgaammo and look at the commercial version( i believe its ra556b) it shows the bullets sectioned on the packaging. It has similar construction to the tbbc with a more protected meplat. I am sitting on 500 of the nosler bonded solid base bullets. Once temps cool down i Will get a load for it figured out.
From what i have seen these are almost the equivalent of the tbbc. From the little info that's out on the 64bsb the tbbc slightly outperforms it. I have seen some pics of expanded bullets from a 22-250. Even at higher velocity these thing hold together. If i remember correctly he was driving them at 34xx fps.
Im hoping these become available as a component permanently so i do not have to constantly look for them.
Edit: this is a picture from sga ammo. Its from a box of ra556b.http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/o485/jstone17/Bsb.jpg
It is indeed a very good bullet.
If I am not mistaken I do believe I was told it was optimized version of that bullet by ssa when I was inquiring about it some time ago. I can only speculate on how it was optimized from the original BSB. Expansion charactoistics maybe ?
If I am not mistaken I do believe I was told it was optimized version of that bullet by ssa when I was inquiring about it some time ago. I can only speculate on how it was optimized from the original BSB. Expansion charactoistics maybe ?
When i contacted nosler they told me the only difference is the canellure. Other than that the bullet is the same. It does not make sense for them to optimize the bullet for civilian purchase, but to leave the fbi duty bullet alone. Not trying to shoot the messenger.
I just can't wait to load them up. I have a 55 inch flatscreen that broke so Im going to see how a couple bullets make it through with some witness paper behind it. I will try and take pics and post what happens. I Will shoot the bsb's, partitions, tsx, ttsx, m855, and maybe some others. I will try to catch in water to see what they do if they do not deflect to bad. I will do it sometime around Christmas.
Based upon the velocity vs range data shown in the ammo box photos on the prior page, it sure looks like the b.c. of this projectile is pretty bad. It would be nice if a manufacturer could make a heavy (75-77gr), solid base, Bowtail, bonded, 5.56mm projectile that's got a decent b.c. (>0.35) for longer range work. Didn't ATK have such a projectile in the works at one time (SOST proposal)?
Most of the bullets like the bsb do not require high bc's to be effective at range. They do drop speed quickly, but generally expand down to 1800fps give or take a few fps. It would be nice to have higher bc's, but they are also designed for cqb ranges. If you need them to be heavier with a better bc. the matchkings have shown to be quite effective.
It seems like all the new bonded bullets designed for expansion have a larger surface area at the meplat. I think it might be required for expansion. If the bullet had a higher bc it might not expand.
With a bc of .25 at 2750fps you will be above 1800fps out to 300 yards. Depending on environmental conditions that might be able to be extended by a little. Having a bullet that expands out to 300 is pretty good.
Edit: when i wrote that i was not thinking clearly. They do have a 75 grain swift scirocco II in 224 diameter. I do not know if anyone loads it in commercial ammo, but it is available as a component. It should fit all the requirements you were looking for. The only thing is it does not have a solid base. It is a boat tail, ballistic tip, bonded, hunting bullet that looks to have a good ballistic coefficient. They cost about the same as other high end bonded bullets. I have seen them for about .40-.50¢ a piece. I always forget about it. I need to pick some up it could replace a lot of bullets i load.
vicious_cb
10-14-12, 01:44
Most of the bullets like the bsb do not require high bc's to be effective at range. They do drop speed quickly, but generally expand down to 1800fps give or take a few fps. It would be nice to have higher bc's, but they are also designed for cqb ranges. If you need them to be heavier with a better bc. the matchkings have shown to be quite effective.
It seems like all the new bonded bullets designed for expansion have a larger surface area at the meplat. I think it might be required for expansion. If the bullet had a higher bc it might not expand.
With a bc of .25 at 2750fps you will be above 1800fps out to 300 yards. Depending on environmental conditions that might be able to be extended by a little. Having a bullet that expands out to 300 is pretty good.
Edit: when i wrote that i was not thinking clearly. They do have a 75 grain swift scirocco II in 224 diameter. I do not know if anyone loads it in commercial ammo, but it is available as a component. It should fit all the requirements you were looking for. The only thing is it does not have a solid base. It is a boat tail, ballistic tip, bonded, hunting bullet that looks to have a good ballistic coefficient. They cost about the same as other high end bonded bullets. I have seen them for about .40-.50¢ a piece. I always forget about it. I need to pick some up it could replace a lot of bullets i load.
The swift scirocco II cannot be loaded to mag length. That and it tend to have some copper fouling issues.
Where did you get the info on that? I have not been able to find any data or info on the scirocco. I don't really want to order the swift book to find out. There was a guy on here that was loading to mag length. The only bullet i was aware of that is under 80 grains that could not be loaded to mag length was the 75 amax. Im not to worried about the copper fouling. Im kind of glad they were out yesterday when i went to pic some up.
So anybody done anymore testing on these? Any reliability issues?
robbins290
09-11-19, 06:43
I know i am a little late, but i shot a deer in 2017 with this load. One hit in the vitals turned the lungs into mush and stopped the heart. They perform well on deer and are very reliable in a 16" carbine.
I know i am a little late, but i shot a deer in 2017 with this load. One hit in the vitals turned the lungs into mush and stopped the heart. They perform well on deer and are very reliable in a 16" carbine.
How far would you say?
robbins290
09-11-19, 07:49
I would say 70ish yards.
robbins290
01-29-20, 11:53
I am late again, but shot another deer with the same load in nov, Great results. this time about 40 yards. the deer was pretty small. But the bullet still turned the lungs into mush. Wished they still made these bullets. Once my box it gone, i will have to find some other load for the 5.56.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.