Farm animals

[Dirk Williams]

We are looking into raising chickens. Our research is lacking, so I thought I'd reach out to anybody with experience raising chickens for eggs or meat.

Want to start with say a dozen chickens for eggs.

1. How many eggs on average should I expect from a dozen birds.
2. How much food do they eat.
3. Do they need to roost inside a building Or, can they have a out door pen with a cover in the winter.
4. How does cold weather effect the birds regarding egg production.
5. Can chickens handle weather say averaging 20 degree's in the winter and zero about 3 weeks a year.


Also looking at one milk cow for Milk, cheese, cream, butter and yogurt production. Any advice is welcome.


We have our stocks of food bullets and bandaids in place, have producing fruit trees on the creek behind the house. just planted blackberry's and blueberry's this past summer.


Thank you in advance.
Dirk

[zacii]

We've got 18 chickens.

Egg production depends on the breed, and living conditions.

Our's are called black star (http://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com/black_star.html). Our daily average is 15 eggs in the summer and about 10 in the winter. The light seems to affect their laying more than the cold. My brother put lights in his coop, to simulate longer days, and that brought his egg production almost to summer levels. Just make sure that they have fresh water, and keep their feet dry.

I probably buy 100# of feed a month, but they also forage on 2 acres. They eat less feed in the summer, seems like.

They also love table scraps.

My dad raises a couple of batches of meat chickens a year. They're a lot more work. They are not as hardy as regular heritage breeds.

With the meat birds you have to regulate their feed, or they'll over eat. They're also prone to heart attack. But, they're a lot better eatin' than what's at the local grocery.

If you've got some acreage, it is my opinion that turkeys are easier to raise than meat chickens. They're not as finicky, and you don't have to babysit them as much.

Generally, the broiler chickens are ready for butchering at 8 to 10 weeks. Males can weigh around 10#.

Turkeys can get really big, but I prefer them at 4 months so they're not too big for the oven. I prefer turkeys around 15 to 20#.

[Dirk Williams]

Zac thanks, what brands or kind of chickens would excel above 4000 feet high dessert?, and am I reading this right you feed them 100 pounds of food per month?

Seems like alot of food for one month. What does that cost on average.

Thanks again for the info.
Dirk

[DeltaSierra]

I have a fair amount of experience in this particular field, so here goes...:D

1. It really depends on what breed of birds you get. I would recommend Red Sexlinks, as they will, more often than not, will lay at 95%. Other breeds, even Leghorns will only lay 80 or 85%.

In other words, if I had 100 Red Sexlinks, I would expect to get 95 or more eggs per day, whereas if I had the Leghorns (generally considered to be a pretty good laying breed) I would only expect 80 or 85 eggs per day in peak season.

2. Chickens are fed free-choice. A dozen hens shouldn't go through more than a 50 pound sack every week and a half or so, but that really depends on the breed. You should also feed out kelp meal to balance out their diet.

3. In the temperatures you are describing, you really need to have an enclosed coop for the birds, or they will get frozen combs and feet, as well as the fact that they will not lay well at all. In cold weather, they need to have free access to a draft free area, although heating that area isn't absolutely needed, they must be able to be out of any drafty area.

4. It isn't the cold weather that is as big of an issue for egg production, as a lack of light. For that reason, I would recommend that you put some sort of light in the coop, so they have light at least 12 hours per day in the winter. If they don't have light, it will throw them into a molt, and during the molt period, you can expect no eggs.


5. Yes, chickens will handle that weather fine.


As far as a cow, I would highly recommend a Jersey heifer. Jerseys, if raised properly, are the friendliest cows there are. I would highly recommend that you get a week old heifer, and raise her yourself, as she will be used to you, and will actually become attached to you and your family.

Other breeds, while decent cows, simply don't have the friendly personalities (and stubborn streak) that makes Jerseys a pleasure to work with.

[Inuvik]

The above pretty much sums up production and feed. Do you have the ability to grow any supplemental feed? You can grow quite a bit of grain in a relatively small space.

The breed will also determine cold-hardiness. I consider Rhode Island Reds to be sort of the "standard" hardy brown-egg breed. You will get more egg production from some of the white-egg layers, but less hardiness.

The degree of coop you need is determined by your predator issues. If you have no coyotes or bobcats, you can get away with less. Your neighbors dogs may be an issue as well. If you have bears, you may be out of luck.

[DeltaSierra]

A fifty pound sack of feed should cost about $15.


That really isn't a lot of feed, at least for what I am used to.

When you are feeding out a sack or two per day, or better, that adds up...:D

Really, the breed of chicken isn't too dependent on the climate, with a couple exceptions. Get the Sexlinks, as they will perform the best under most conditions.


Zac thanks, what brands or kind of chickens would excel above 4000 feet high dessert?, and am I reading this right you feed them 100 pounds of food per month?

Seems like alot of food for one month. What does that cost on average.

Thanks again for the info.
Dirk

[DeltaSierra]

My dad raises a couple of batches of meat chickens a year. They're a lot more work. They are not as hardy as regular heritage breeds.

With the meat birds you have to regulate their feed, or they'll over eat. They're also prone to heart attack. But, they're a lot better eatin' than what's at the local grocery.

If you've got some acreage, it is my opinion that turkeys are easier to raise than meat chickens. They're not as finicky, and you don't have to babysit them as much.

Generally, the broiler chickens are ready for butchering at 8 to 10 weeks. Males can weigh around 10#.

Turkeys can get really big, but I prefer them at 4 months so they're not too big for the oven. I prefer turkeys around 15 to 20#.

After raising and/or butchering tons meat birds, I can't say that I agree with you here. I have never regulated feed rations for meat birds, and have never had any issues with heart attacks, or anything else. If you are having issues, it is NOT because of how much they ate, but what quality grain you are feeding out, and what conditions they were kept in.

Turkeys, when compared with chickens are a royal pain to raise. All turkeys want to do is die for the first eight weeks or so, and then all they want to do is figure out some way of killing themselves so it looks like it was your fault...:D

Turkeys are more personable than chickens, but I would never recommend that someone new to poultry start out with turkeys, as they are much more sensitive to their conditions that chickens are. If it is too damp, the turkeys will get spasms, and keel over. If it is to hot, they'll notice it first. Chickens are much more resilient, and are much better suited for beginners.

I don't know what breed of meat bird you raise, but the Cornish Roaster (NOT a Cornish XRock) is the hardiest, and won't give you any leg issues. They hardly have any health issues at all, and grow 10 to 13 pounds or better.

I've had turkeys that easily topped #40 dressed, so butchering a turkey at 15 or 20 pounds in almost not worth it for the trouble.

[PlatoCATM]

I have 8 chickens that I picked up at the hatchery in mid-august. 2 each of sussex, rhode island red, americauna, and barred rock. I got my first small egg last monday and have since found two more. I think they are from the same barred rock. Note, these are small pullet eggs, but it's interesting that they were laid in some of the coldest weather to date. A 50lb bag of feed is lasting about 3 weeks. I imagine they will eat more feed now that they are in the coop all the time since the weather finally turned to freezing. I will still go in and feed them some cracked corn from time to time.

I helped my buddy butcher about a dozen broilers a month or so ago, after he fed them out for around 8 weeks. By the end I think he said they would eat 10 lbs of feed a day.

[DeltaSierra]

By the end I think he said they would eat 10 lbs of feed a day.

Sorry to say it, but your buddy is smoking some good grass if he thinks his birds were eating ten pounds of feed per day, as that is physically impossible.


Even a forty pound turkey doesn't eat ten pounds of feed per day....




...but it's interesting that they were laid in some of the coldest weather to date.

Not really, considering what I said earlier about how cold weather does not really affect how well the birds lay.

[zacii]

I believe that we raise the Cornish X.

We're a very small operation, usually 75ish meat birds. They get fed a meat bird feed from the local feed store. I have no idea what kind.

I know that they have to have water continually, and that we give them feed for 12hrs, then off for 12hrs. My dad is the chicken guru, I honestly don't know anything, I just dress 'em for the freezer. Perhaps I didn't use the word regulate correctly.

Turkeys are very different animals depending on the breed. We can, and have, raised some very large ones. Just a preference for a bit smaller. The last batch, I believe, were the Narragansett.

I'm sure that anyone with a large operation, or who's raised them for many years is going to have a better handle on normalcy, than me. We've only been going for about 3 years.

We're in the high desert, probably about 4800 ft. Highs around 110 in the summer, and in the winter we routinely go into single digits at night. We usually get a week of sub-zero temps mid to late january.

I personally raise my own chickens for eggs; the Black Stars mentioned earlier. This is my second year with this variety and I've been real pleased with them. My first chicken batch were Buff Orpingtons. I wasn't that impressed with them. They didn't lay as well as the Black Stars, and they were not as well tempered.

We give them fresh water every day, and some oyster shell to help their egg shells. The wife also gives them cayenne pepper, or diatomaceous earth (spelling?) for their digestive systems. The cayenne is also supposed to help their circulation in cold weather.

[Dirk Williams]

Sexlink chickens?.Im almost afraid to search might find this one next to midget porn or something similar. Seriously thank you all.

Im glad I asked rather then running out and purchasing chickens. We live in a regular residential neighborhood. Small creek behind us and hay fields at the end of the street.

My wife and I together took very seriously the things being seen we view them as clues. Mother nature hammer you down south and back east with devistating? natural disaster related stuff. Derivitave and finincial issues as well

We have been working for well over a year getting our fixed supplies in place and we are there and feel comfortable for 10 people, for 1 to 2 years.

During this period of time we have come to realize that eating beans rice tuna canned fruits and veggies and other canned foods, and drinking powdered milk is going to get old quick.

We think we have learned that for very little cost we can use our 1/2 achre back yard to raise chickens maybe a goat or two, meat rabbits and a milk cow.

Food storage is as important a concern as is correct animal selection and accomidations for those animals.

Anyway we would like to have enough chickens to produce around 2 dozen aggs a day. Mostly for barter and helping the elderly in our neighborhood.

weve lived here 25 years now and understand that although we have seen the signs and prepared most have not. I feel the need to at least try and help the old folks out.

I understand that one milk cow fed correctly will produce around 5 to 7 gallons of milk per day milked twice per day. That equals a ton of fresh natural products that can be barted and shared as we don't even drink a gallon of milk a week ourselves.

Our neighbor owns the hay field at the end of the street, and Im certain that if we are sharing the bounty from our farm animals we will convience several of these folks to work with us to grow gardens milk the cow tend to the animals and grow the hay to feed the cow.

For us it's simple we don't want to live on freeze dryed food for a couple of years when even in a small back yard specific animals can be raised for the good of our family and the neighborhood.

We see it as win win. I hope we are right in our calculations however we could be wrong. The blackberry and other berrys plus the fruit trees and the produce from the farm animals should make a huge difference in quality of live IF the SHTF.

Thank you all for your idea's. Perhaps we should brain storm in this direction as I see some wisdom in thinking out of the stored food box for us all.


Last thought we have also purchased 1000's of packs of good seeds which we keep frozen for longevity some of these old folks truly have awesome green thumbs and their knowledge into the old ways is invaluble.
We feel we need their wisdom and skills to make the gardens and animals and other stuff work to max benifit.

Thanks again
Dirk Williams

[DeltaSierra]

Interesting concept of the cayenne pepper... Never heard of using it on chickens before, although I know for a fact that cayenne works very well in humans for dealing with both hot and cold extremes.

Narragansetts are pretty good as turkeys go, but they are still quite finicky. Maybe turkeys do better in the desert than in wetter areas, although I find that hard to understand, since they are so sensitive to heat.

The Orpingtons aren't worth anything as layers, in fact, none of the heritage breeds are. Unfortunately, if you want production you have to get the new hybrid breeds.

Out of curiosity, did your Orpingtons go broody on you at all?

For disaster preparation, I like to have hens that like to set so that you can hatch out your own eggs, so for that reason, having a few Silkies or a similar breed is a good idea.


If you are raising 75 XRocks per year, you probably haven't seen an unacceptable amount of leg issues, but the Cornish Roasters just don't have any leg issues, and are well worth looking into.

In your location you may or may not have serious issues with parasites, but feeding DE is always a good idea.

As far as the oyster shell, you can save some money there... If you save your egg shells, rather than throwing them out, you can bake them and crunch them up and feed them back to the birds for a source of calcium. Do not feed them raw shells, as they will develop a taste for them and they'll start eating their eggs, but you'll be fine if you bake the shells first.




I believe that we raise the Cornish X.

We're a very small operation, usually 75ish meat birds. They get fed a meat bird feed from the local feed store. I have no idea what kind.

I know that they have to have water continually, and that we give them feed for 12hrs, then off for 12hrs. My dad is the chicken guru, I honestly don't know anything, I just dress 'em for the freezer. Perhaps I didn't use the word regulate correctly.

Turkeys are very different animals depending on the breed. We can, and have, raised some very large ones. Just a preference for a bit smaller. The last batch, I believe, were the Narragansett.

I'm sure that anyone with a large operation, or who's raised them for many years is going to have a better handle on normalcy, than me. We've only been going for about 3 years.

We're in the high desert, probably about 4800 ft. Highs around 110 in the summer, and in the winter we routinely go into single digits at night. We usually get a week of sub-zero temps mid to late january.

I personally raise my own chickens for eggs; the Black Stars mentioned earlier. This is my second year with this variety and I've been real pleased with them. My first chicken batch were Buff Orpingtons. I wasn't that impressed with them. They didn't lay as well as the Black Stars, and they were not as well tempered.

We give them fresh water every day, and some oyster shell to help their egg shells. The wife also gives them cayenne pepper, or diatomaceous earth (spelling?) for their digestive systems. The cayenne is also supposed to help their circulation in cold weather.

[DeltaSierra]

I understand that one milk cow fed correctly will produce around 5 to 7 gallons of milk per day milked twice per day.


Again, depends upon the breed. Whatever you do, do NOT get a Holstein, as they literally cannot survive without being fed massive amounts of grain, as the cannot get the nutrients they need from a diet of grass.

If you get a Jersey/Dexter/Guernsey/Scottish Highlander you can reasonably expect to get 3 to 5 gallons twice per day, on a diet of high quality grass/hay and supplementing some grain. You can milk once per day, which I highly recommend. If you want more information on this, please PM me, and I can send you some information.


Here are the breeds of chickens that I recommend for maximum production.

Murray McMurray Cornish Roasters for meat:
http://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com/cornish_roaster.html

Mount Healthy Golden Comets (their version of a Red Sexlink) for eggs:
http://www.mthealthy.com/product/GC-P

[JStor]

We used to raise chickens for meat, profit and some for egg production. We started with day old chicks and built brooders out of 55 gallon barrels cut lengthwise with legs added to create a mini-hut. Then an electrical unit was installed on top to provide a socket for a heat bulb. At this stage, cats are an ever present danger to the chicks, so they have to well enclosed.

As they grow, you'll want tools...12 gauge shotgun and some Magnum #4s, because the fox will find your plot. We had an 11 o'clock fox, a 2 o'clock fox and a couple of evening visitors on a daily basis. Eventually, I bumped them off. The guinea hens we had would tell me when a fox arrived, and their chattering sounded like "jungle noises." Owls and hawks will start hanging around too.

[zacii]

I've had more problems with neighbors' dogs, than with wild predators. As long as I make sure they're secure at night, we don't usually have problems.

We do have to keep an eye out for crows, they like to rob eggs, too.

I would like some guinea hens. My brother in law had some and he says they're not bad eating ;)

[Moose-Knuckle]

Great thread, I'm learning a lot. Guess I should have joined FFA back in school.

[Dirk Williams]

Think we are going to do the chicken raising thing. Im going to visit the Oregon State Ag extension office Monday, to see what chickens work best here.

If you buy chicken food in bulk is it cheaper. If my math is right I'll need around 400/500 pounds of chicken food per year per 12 to 20 chickens, Or about 300 to 400 per year cost to feed. Or is my math wrong.

Dumb question Do you need roosters to have egg chickens lay eggs, or is that just to keep your chicken population up.

Thank you
Dirk

[DeltaSierra]

Think we are going to do the chicken raising thing. Im going to visit the Oregon State Ag extension office Monday, to see what chickens work best here.

If you buy chicken food in bulk is it cheaper. If my math is right I'll need around 400/500 pounds of chicken food per year per 12 to 20 chickens, Or about 300 to 400 per year cost to feed. Or is my math wrong.

Dumb question Do you need roosters to have egg chickens lay eggs, or is that just to keep your chicken population up.

Thank you
Dirk

No, you don't need a rooster, unless you want to hatch the eggs.

You math is a bit off, as feed doesn't cost more than 40 cents per pound...;)

Buying in bulk? Unless you want to be stuck with a minimum order of a couple ton in your silo, you'd better just stick with buying by the fifty pound sack....

It is cheaper, but not cheap enough to bother with for any less than a couple hundred birds.

[PlatoCATM]

Sorry to say it, but your buddy is smoking some good grass if he thinks his birds were eating ten pounds of feed per day, as that is physically impossible.


Even a forty pound turkey doesn't eat ten pounds of feed per day....


Not really, considering what I said earlier about how cold weather does not really affect how well the birds lay.

I meant all of them together. And I think he said they ate a bag a week, which breaks down to 7lbs daily--I was in a hurry earlier when I answered. Does that sound more correct?

I still find it interesting, especially since a lot of what I have read said that laying requires more light than is typical in January. Cold, light, whatever, I attributed the possible lack of laying to winter.

[Nathan_Bell]

What about goats for small plot food critters?

I know the hillbilly side of the family always had a couple running around, usually a nanny or two for milk and a couple for watch dog (goat) duty.

Aunt Helen's place was a dangerous place to enter for a stranger, with the goats roaming the place looking for a chance to give you a charlie horse by butting your thigh and the geese just being plain evil critters...

[DeltaSierra]

I meant all of them together. And I think he said they ate a bag a week, which breaks down to 7lbs daily--I was in a hurry earlier when I answered. Does that sound more correct?

Ah, much better....

;)




I still find it interesting, especially since a lot of what I have read said that laying requires more light than is typical in January. Cold, light, whatever, I attributed the possible lack of laying to winter.

Yes, and no. When pullets first start laying, lighting doesn't make nearly as much difference as it would for second season hens. Next year you will probably notice a difference in production though.






What about goats for small plot food critters?

I know the hillbilly side of the family always had a couple running around, usually a nanny or two for milk and a couple for watch dog (goat) duty.

Aunt Helen's place was a dangerous place to enter for a stranger, with the goats roaming the place looking for a chance to give you a charlie horse by butting your thigh and the geese just being plain evil critters...


The issue with goats is that you need to build something like the Great Wall of China to keep them inside the fence - otherwise they get out, and they can eat anything from blackberry bushes, to tin cans, so no garden is ever safe from them....


If you are going to have goats, I would probably stake them out, rather than fencing them, as that is a more reliable system, and cheaper. The issue with staking them is that you would have to teach them when they were little - if you didn't train them on staking they would probably choke themselves to death if you started them when they were full grown, as they wouldn't be used to having a collar on their neck that was attached to a central stake.


I'm not much for geese... While I suppose they could be nice to have around, they leave giant sized goose poo all over the place...... Not exactly conducive to walking around in the yard for sure...


As far as the Guinea Hen remarks...

Guinea Hens are the WORST thing that you could possibly get, unless of course, you won't mind your neighbors (if you are in a city) calling the cops every ten minutes or so.

They yell all the time, at any little movement or sound. Since they yell so much, you don't know when there is an actual problem or not...

If you must get Guineas, only get five or ten - no more. Any more than that, and you will have a constant barrage of screaming that will drive you crazy. Don't believe me? Get 25 or 30 of them, and try to work near their enclosure - you can't hear anything but those screaming little fiends...

[Nathan_Bell]

She kept the geese in the one side yard and the goats in another. Wish she was still with us, as all the fencing I can recall is a split rail outer fence and a trellis type inner fence. Now I am curious how she kept them in place



Ah, much better....

;)




Yes, and no. When pullets first start laying, lighting doesn't make nearly as much difference as it would for second season hens. Next year you will probably notice a difference in production though.








The issue with goats is that you need to build something like the Great Wall of China to keep them inside the fence - otherwise they get out, and they can eat anything from blackberry bushes, to tin cans, so no garden is ever safe from them....


If you are going to have goats, I would probably stake them out, rather than fencing them, as that is a more reliable system, and cheaper. The issue with staking them is that you would have to teach them when they were little - if you didn't train them on staking they would probably choke themselves to death if you started them when they were full grown, as they wouldn't be used to having a collar on their neck that was attached to a central stake.


I'm not much for geese... While I suppose they could be nice to have around, they leave giant sized goose poo all over the place...... Not exactly conducive to walking around in the yard for sure...


As far as the Guinea Hen remarks...

Guinea Hens are the WORST thing that you could possibly get, unless of course, you won't mind your neighbors (if you are in a city) calling the cops every ten minutes or so.

They yell all the time, at any little movement or sound. Since they yell so much, you don't know when there is an actual problem or not...

If you must get Guineas, only get five or ten - no more. Any more than that, and you will have a constant barrage of screaming that will drive you crazy. Don't believe me? Get 25 or 30 of them, and try to work near their enclosure - you can't hear anything but those screaming little fiends...

[PlatoCATM]

I settled for some honey bees after I was denied livestock. Hopefully our fruit trees will produce better next season than they did this year. Honey is obviously more of a barter item, but should help other plants produce, too. The honey will be guaranteed not to come from china or be micro-filtered.

DS, I read about some healthy plants for chickens, but can't find the link. Do you know of some leafy greens that I could plant just outside the coop for the chickens to snack on? They won't be allowed out of the run much.

[DeltaSierra]

She kept the geese in the one side yard and the goats in another. Wish she was still with us, as all the fencing I can recall is a split rail outer fence and a trellis type inner fence. Now I am curious how she kept them in place


Is is possible that there were strands of electric fencing running along the fence? That is the only thing that I can think of that might have kept them in...;)

[Dirk Williams]

We just got some litrature on honey bee's from a friend who has several hives. He's saying one hive will produce lots and lots of honey and keep the area's tree's polinated.

The books he loaned us had all the How To's and locations to purchase hives and starter bees and a queen. Looks promising.

Dirk

[DeltaSierra]

I settled for some honey bees after I was denied livestock. Hopefully our fruit trees will produce better next season than they did this year. Honey is obviously more of a barter item, but should help other plants produce, too. The honey will be guaranteed not to come from china or be micro-filtered.

DS, I read about some healthy plants for chickens, but can't find the link. Do you know of some leafy greens that I could plant just outside the coop for the chickens to snack on? They won't be allowed out of the run much.


Bees are excellent, if you can keep them alive. How far are you from a cell tower? Around here, we have found that the distance from a cell tower is vital to keeping a swarm alive.


As far as healthy plants for chickens, I haven't done much research on their specific dietary needs, so I can't speak from a purely scientific perspective on that, but I would make sure that they had access to what could be found in a good quality pasture - grasses, and clover.

Don't feed out too many dandelion greens as the eggs can be so full of iron that you'll get iron overload. I wouldn't believe this, except I know some people that this happened to.... Don't worry about your chickens getting some dandelion greens, but don't go out of your way to feed them a bunch...

I generally find that chickens do quite well without a highly scientific approach to their feed. As long as they have free access to a variety of plant an animal material, they can figure out what they want to eat quite well and maintain good health.

My preferred method of keeping chickens is in a chicken tractor during the warm months (a small movable pen that is moved once or twice per day) so that the birds have new grass and critters to eat every day. A static pen in the warm months leads to too much disease and a lack of good diet.

[DeltaSierra]

We just got some litrature on honey bee's from a friend who has several hives. He's saying one hive will produce lots and lots of honey and keep the area's tree's polinated.

The books he loaned us had all the How To's and locations to purchase hives and starter bees and a queen. Looks promising.

Dirk

Bees are quite sensitive to cellular telephone frequency radio waves.

One beekeeper here cannot keep his bees at his home any more, as a cell tower was put up withing sight of his house. He never had issues before, but now any hives that he keeps at his house collapse.

It is a serious issue, that no one wants to deal with.



Bees are more important now than they ever were before, as they are being killed off in massive numbers...


I would suggest that you start off with two hives, as if one hive dies off (a somewhat common issue for now beekeepers) you will at least have one "spare" hive.


Take a look at this method of beekeeping: http://www.backwardsbeekeepers.com/

It is simple, easy and chemical free method of beekeeping. I would highly recommend that you contact them for any information that you might need.

[PlatoCATM]

Thanks for the link to backwardsbeekeepers. I was talking to a beekeeper recently and he said with the hive I had already bought I could split it into another hive with just another bottom and top board. He suggested starting with two hives to make comparisons as well as in case of collapse.

Looks like I will have to try the foundationless method with the second hive.

OP, sorry for being so far off topic. I wanted to mention this earlier but forgot: If you think you can viably keep several chickens, just read some of the basics, make room for them, and buy the supplies and chicks. Nothing teaches like experience. I still don't know much about them but one hasn't died on me yet and they've started laying.

[DeltaSierra]

Thanks for the link to backwardsbeekeepers. I was talking to a beekeeper recently and he said with the hive I had already bought I could split it into another hive with just another bottom and top board. He suggested starting with two hives to make comparisons as well as in case of collapse.

Looks like I will have to try the foundationless method with the second hive.

OP, sorry for being so far off topic. I wanted to mention this earlier but forgot: If you think you can viably keep several chickens, just read some of the basics, make room for them, and buy the supplies and chicks. Nothing teaches like experience. I still don't know much about them but one hasn't died on me yet and they've started laying.

As far as the bees, just be forewarned that the foundationless method doesn't always work well unless you do it a certain way, using a flat surface as a guide so the bees don't make a complete mess out of the hive. If you want more information I can PM you, or start a different thread so as not to hijack this thread too badly...




As far as the chickens go, I would expect a 5% casualty rate if you get day-old chicks. They will pile up, smothering each other, and there will be one or two that keels over for no obvious reason... If a few die, don't be too worried, as that is to be expected to some degree.

Personally, most of these "how to" books make it sound way more difficult than it actually is to brood chicks. It is really quite simple. Keep them warm, dry, fed and watered, and they will be fine.

I actually should write up a short piece on the real way to brood chicks, and not the "citified" and difficult way....:D