View Full Version : Compare 7.62SDN&M4-1000 on 5.56 gun
I picked up my 7.62SDN can yesterday and markm and I took it for a quick shoot and compare. Markm shot his 14.5 with his M4-1000 then removed it and shot my 7.62SDN can on his 14.5 and it sounded the same. I was impressed how well it performed on 5.56. And with its size, not a whole lot bigger, made me think this can is a great multi-caliber can.
we did not test a great deal, but the POI shift was about an inch in our quick test, and it did not droop my 20 inch 5R. It held about a one inch group, the gun can do better, but maybe it was user error. Next weekend, we will push more in testing.
Mark has pics and possible video if he gets around to posting it.
That's badass brother....the only suppressor I have been planing on, and intend to buy is that particular one.
While I haven't had the opportunity to play with one in person, everything Ive been reading about them over the last few months makes it seem at least in my mind as a no brainier. It sure seems that it's the most versatile suppressor made that still has high performance in terms of sound reduction on all the different platforms, and is built to sustain true hard use.
Ive heard it with some 300blk rifles and it's almost hollywood quiet in the videos running subs.
I think it will be awesome to run this can with various MWS setups, 2 MRP 300blk setups...a cqb chassis/10.5", and a rifle length chassis/16", and then even occasionally run it on some 5.56 ARs.
The size of the total package being a .30cal suppressor is also very impressive.
PICS friend-o or that badass can didn't happen. Look forward to hearing yours and Mark's exploits and opinions on it in the future:)
I'll try to get some video up today or tomorrow. I had 4 rounds of subsonic I brought.... it's silly quiet. You can hardly tell the difference between this can and a 5.56 can. I thought it'd be a heavy beast.
Definitely a smart way to go if you move your silencer from gun to gun.
here's several cans compared in one video.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/gun%20stuff/th_300BLKMovie.jpg (http://s134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/gun%20stuff/?action=view¤t=300BLKMovie.mp4)
That's badass brother....the only suppressor I have been planing on, and intend to buy is that particular one.
While I haven't had the opportunity to play with one in person, everything Ive been reading about them over the last few months makes it seem at least in my mind as a no brainier. It sure seems that it's the most versatile suppressor made that still has high performance in terms of sound reduction on all the different platforms, and is built to sustain true hard use.
Ive heard it with some 300blk rifles and it's almost hollywood quiet in the videos running subs.
I think it will be awesome to run this can with various MWS setups, 2 MRP 300blk setups...a cqb chassis/10.5", and a rifle length chassis/16", and then even occasionally run it on some 5.56 ARs.
The size of the total package being a .30cal suppressor is also very impressive.
PICS friend-o or that badass can didn't happen. Look forward to hearing yours and Mark's exploits and opinions on it in the future:)
Just wondering, what's the reason for wanting the SD-N6 over the SD?
I ask because the SD apparently meters better (according to Maj Malfunction's testing) than the SD-N6 across ALL calibers and is only 1.09" longer than the SD-N6...not to mention its much cheaper.
Just wondering, what's the reason for wanting the SD-N6 over the SD?
I ask because the SD apparently meters better (according to Maj Malfunction's testing) than the SD-N6 across ALL calibers and is only 1.09" longer than the SD-N6...not to mention its much cheaper.
SDN6 is full inconel where the SD is a mix of inconel and SS if I remember correctly. The SDN6 should have slightly better longevity than the SD. I also think the SDN6 is geared more towards SBR's with its full inconel baffle stack. I am not a suppressor expert, but I would hope that a suppressor that is 1" longer(thus having more baffles) would be quieter. Maybe my thought process on that is jacked up.
I have shot the SDN6 and M42k back to back on the same 10.5" SBR and I thought, to my ear, the DBL reduction was VERY similar however they sounded differently. I believe this is due to the SDN6 being slightly longer and a slightly different design internally. The SDN6 seemed to me to be slightly lower pitched where as the m42k was a bit higher pitched. Probably a resonance thing too.
Also shot the SDN6 off of an MWS and from 6 feet behind the gun it sounded like a pellet gun. I believe we were doing less than 1 MOA with the setup as well(except the one I pulled really badly).
When I first started researching these suppressors several months back Jason linked me a video AAC did comparing the SDN-6 side by side with the SD, and seeing how much more compact the SDN-6 was, really made the decision easy for myself. Jason IIrc also told me that for 300blk shorty AR setups running subs, the SDN-6 would be ideal. Rob posted a video several months ago as well with a dude running a 300blk shorty AR setup with subs and a SDN-6, and it was really Hollywood quiet. I've watched that video tons of times.
Whether or not the SDN-6 rules any one particular setup..i.e. 308 AR setups, subs through 300blk shorty ARs, or is the most effective .30cal suppressor on the market for running on 5.56 setups, it's not that important to me as long as it performs well across a number of different hosts and does so in the most compact and durable package as possible. The SDN-6 seems to really meet that goal of mine.
Then again, I'm below newb status on suppressors.
Rob....that's a nice video and a very good comparison. The second guy's setup sounds really good for a 5.56 suppressed rifle running supers. Do you happen to know the specs
on his rifle, or know where a pic or two of it might exist? That is one badass suppressed MRP CQB setup.
ETA: rjacobs...great info brother. Especially the last line:
"Also shot the SDN6 off of an MWS and from 6 feet behind the gun it sounded like a pellet gun. I believe we were doing less than 1 MOA with the setup as well(except the one I pulled really badly)."
Suppressing this new MWS has very quickly become quite important for myself. That's outstanding to hear an actual first hand report on this can in use with a MWS. I'd assume it's a 16" CL MWS, if so even better.
Pappa, Mark....quit dicking around and hook me up with some beautiful bean footage of Pappa's MWS and the new SDN-6. You guys have way to much fun these days. I need a friend or two:)
The 762 SDN gets warm fast even on the bolt gun....
We'll run some 300 win mag through it when Pappabear's gun gets skim bedded.
Just wondering, what's the reason for wanting the SD-N6 over the SD?
I ask because the SD apparently meters better (according to Maj Malfunction's testing) than the SD-N6 across ALL calibers and is only 1.09" longer than the SD-N6...not to mention its much cheaper.
For some people they care about that 1.09". I was uninterested in the SDN but the SDN-6 was enough of a change to pique my interest.
SD is 8.75" and 19.1 oz.
SDN-6 is 7.66" and 19.85 oz.
This is one of those rare cases where losing the extra inch was worth it to me vs. saving the 0.7 oz.
IMO when evaluating cans you need to look at many criteria and how they apply to your use:
OAL
length-added
mounting system
weight
cost
what order, and in what priority, is going to vary person to person.
Eurodriver
01-16-12, 09:04
I hate to come across like a "I love to waste my money" type...
But I bought a 5.56mm suppressor for my 5.56mm weapons and a 7.62mm suppressor for my 7.62mm weapons. I know, I know, its just so crazy. In fact, I have every intention of buying another 556mm suppressor to run on my dedicated suppressed SBR so I can float my M4-2000 between my other two ARs without having to wait a half hour for it to cool enough to move it.
As for the SD vs SDN6...I went with what was quieter. The reduction of an inch for me, unlike Rob, isn't as important as the 3 or 4 dB noise increase that the N6 has over the SD. As far as longevity, sure an all inconel baffle stack will last longer than inconel and SS...but how many 762SD's are being tossed in the trash after years and years of reliable use? Could the N6 be overkill? Especially for a 16" .308 and a 9" 300BLK firing subsonics?
Mark, is the 762sdN6 rated for 300WM?
Mark, is the 762sdN6 rated for 300WM?
I hope so...:D
But I don't know for sure.
As I recall, Jason has said it will be fine on a >= 24" barrel.
I talked to Mike Mers from AAC about the 7.62SD and if it could handle 30-06 on a 22" barrel. He said is should be ok, but not to fire to many rounds in a row. I would be leary of shooting .300WM in the N6. I'm pretty sure the 300 has higher pressures than the '06. AAC's Titan is a masive can, which is built for the Lapua. I know the .300WM is not at that level, but it is close to it.
Jk
As I recall, Jason has said it will be fine on a >= 24" barrel.
Pappabear's gun is 24"... we'll probably confirm that it's ok anyway.
Eurodriver
01-16-12, 11:18
... we'll probably confirm that it's ok anyway.
:D...
:
As I recall, Jason has said it will be fine on a >= 24" barrel.
As Markus said, mine is a 24 inch 5R. I was told by others the same, "yes you can, but don't just wear that bitch out round after round. My plan shoot is 5 shot group, lets it cool, ...and repeat. For 90% of the time, I will use it for 308.
I have no plans to run the can on 5.56 guns, I have that pretty covered, but we just wanted to test it for shits and giggles. And it was impressive.
The main reason I chose the SDN6, inch shorter, which does make the gun much more handy. -don't get me started-thats my opinion. And better durability.
The good folks at AAC really need to fix the adapter / connection...there is no reason to give people a reason to buy Surefire. If they do not come up with a answer to this, I would have to recommend Surefire. I hate to have to say that, because I like my AAC 5.56 cans, but a can that does not snug up is a no go. AAC, are you listening?
And I own multiple AAC cans and all have been wicked nice. The TiRant should never be left off any discussion of best of the best with CANS!:D
I hate to come across like a "I love to waste my money" type...
But I bought a 5.56mm suppressor for my 5.56mm weapons and a 7.62mm suppressor for my 7.62mm weapons. I know, I know, its just so crazy. In fact, I have every intention of buying another 556mm suppressor to run on my dedicated suppressed SBR so I can float my M4-2000 between my other two ARs without having to wait a half hour for it to cool enough to move it.
As for the SD vs SDN6...I went with what was quieter. The reduction of an inch for me, unlike Rob, isn't as important as the 3 or 4 dB noise increase that the N6 has over the SD. As far as longevity, sure an all inconel baffle stack will last longer than inconel and SS...but how many 762SD's are being tossed in the trash after years and years of reliable use? Could the N6 be overkill? Especially for a 16" .308 and a 9" 300BLK firing subsonics?
Mark, is the 762sdN6 rated for 300WM?
This is my line of thinking too. I guess I'm not understanding why someone would go with the N6 for its "compactness"? I'm not bashing anyone's decisions because I honestly don't care how you spend your money, but unless I was 100% sure I was ONLY buying one can in my lifetime for use between multiple hosts, I would not be choosing the N6 if compactness is one of my top priorities. There are much better options for that...
I kinda view suppressors the same as ARs. Like ARs, there are suppressors that are better suited for a particular task than others (ie. compactness vs. dB performance) but you can choose one that is a "jack of all trades" as long as you understand you'll be making compromises across the spectrum of critera...
And rob, your list is missing dB performance as one of its criteria...unless you don't think that's a necessary criteria for a...suppressor...:p
And rob, your list is missing dB performance as one of its criteria...unless you don't think that's a necessary criteria for a...suppressor...:p
I actually don't. I think it's ridiculously over-blown and largely the topic of internet debate and not much more. I'll have to find someone with a long can to shoot next to my N6 and see if anyone can tell the difference. My bet is on "no".
I actually don't. I think it's ridiculously over-blown and largely the topic of internet debate and not much more. I'll have to find someone with a long can to shoot next to my N6 and see if anyone can tell the difference. My bet is on "no".
After shooting an M4/SPR, M4-2000, and Mini4 side by side the meter numbers are the least of my concerns.
You will feel the weight and the inch more than the sound differential. The only difference seems to be pitch with all these CANS. And if the N6 is built more robust, all the more reason to go N6.
Multi caliber use, not so much for me. But if was primarily looking for a 7.62 CAN, and knew it could muffle my 5.56 as a bonus, AND I didn't have an extra 1K laying around. That would attractive. The N6 is comparable to size of many other 5.56 CANS. And if you say your not worried about the inch or weight, then that should be just fine.
I have plenty of m4-2000's and waiting on a stamp for my mini4, but there is no question many will regard this as a bonus for the N6. 7.62 or 5.56 is GTG Solo:D
After shooting an M4/SPR, M4-2000, and Mini4 side by side the meter numbers are the least of my concerns.
Well without derailing the thread more than I have already contributed to the derail, I want to point out that the dB level to the shooter from an AR type platform between even the Mini4 and the M4/SPR will be VERY similar due to the ejection port noise.
Like I said, it really doesn't matter to me what suppressor(s) someone might choose or how they want to use them. I just tend to envision what exactly I want to do with a particular setup (ie. SBR or LR Precision platform) and when it comes to suppressors or whatnot, I stick with the primary purpose in mind and choose accordingly. Even if the difference between the alternatives are only marginal.
When it comes to the SD vs SD-N6, which is what spurred my original question, I look at it from a cost/benefit perspective, and I just personally don't see the N6 giving me as much as the SD will for the extra cost.
Well without derailing the thread more than I have already contributed to the derail, I want to point out that the dB level to the shooter from an AR type platform between even the Mini4 and the M4/SPR will be VERY similar due to the ejection port noise.
Exactly. So if their performance is indistinguishable why go with the bigger, heavier model?
I'm coming from the other direction. I don't see what the SD offers over the SDN-6.
for anyone interested in comparing specs, there's a chart here, you just need to click the 7.62 tab at the bottom
https://sites.google.com/site/tacticalyellowvisor/charts/5-56-sound-suppressors
Just a point of clarification guys,the N6 weighs MORE. IIRC this is due to the added baffle.
I generally find rifle cans to be one of the LEAST sensible firearms-related purchases (once we ignore garbage parts like Crapco, etc.) and was pretty well firmly against them until the N6 came along. Now that there are even more compact and lighter weight .308 cans coming online (and I'm sure there will be still more to add to the list a week from now) I'm even more interested. As of now, the N-6 is the shortest overall, and shortest length-added, 7.62 can that is 1.5" dia. that I'm aware of. I'm betting the Surefire and others will be even more compact. I'm thinking it will be in the 16 oz. and 6" OAL realm.
Either way, finally having one can that was compact enough to start to make sense on guns other than .308 changed my mind a bit about rifle cans. Because if you can have one that effectively suppresses more guns then having that one starts to make more sense. It literally cuts your can budget in half, or even in thirds for some people, and opens up a realm to suppress guns you might not have thought of or bothered with in the past. The fact that it's QD means you're really only limited by what you can get mounts for/on.
But like I said, I think this argument will largely be rendered moot in a couple of days (although how long between lifting their skirts up and actually laying flat on their back with their legs up, only the suppressor companies know). I anticipate the compact .308 can market to be a hot segment at SHOT, and it's one of the best, if not the best, things to come out of the 300 BLK hysteria.
I would have never put an SD on my 5.56 AR. It's just too long. Yeah, it's only an inch, but it's still too long.
Eurodriver
01-17-12, 06:37
Exactly. So if their performance is indistinguishable why go with the bigger, heavier model?
I'm coming from the other direction. I don't see what the SD offers over the SDN-6.
The SDN6 is heavier than the SD. FYI.
You can also get the SD for about $300 less, and unless you're shooting an SBR'd .308 or supersonic .300BLK on full auto out of an 8" barrel I doubt there will be any issues between the two with longevity.
Eurodriver
01-17-12, 06:47
for anyone interested in comparing specs, there's a chart here, you just need to click the 7.62 tab at the bottom
https://sites.google.com/site/tacticalyellowvisor/charts/5-56-sound-suppressors
Just a point of clarification guys,the N6 weighs MORE. IIRC this is due to the added baffle.
I generally find rifle cans to be one of the LEAST sensible firearms-related purchases (once we ignore garbage parts like Crapco, etc.) and was pretty well firmly against them until the N6 came along. Now that there are even more compact and lighter weight .308 cans coming online (and I'm sure there will be still more to add to the list a week from now) I'm even more interested. As of now, the N-6 is the shortest overall, and shortest length-added, 7.62 can that is 1.5" dia. that I'm aware of. I'm betting the Surefire and others will be even more compact. I'm thinking it will be in the 16 oz. and 6" OAL realm.
Either way, finally having one can that was compact enough to start to make sense on guns other than .308 changed my mind a bit about rifle cans. Because if you can have one that effectively suppresses more guns then having that one starts to make more sense. It literally cuts your can budget in half, or even in thirds for some people, and opens up a realm to suppress guns you might not have thought of or bothered with in the past. The fact that it's QD means you're really only limited by what you can get mounts for/on.
But like I said, I think this argument will largely be rendered moot in a couple of days (although how long between lifting their skirts up and actually laying flat on their back with their legs up, only the suppressor companies know). I anticipate the compact .308 can market to be a hot segment at SHOT, and it's one of the best, if not the best, things to come out of the 300 BLK hysteria.
I would have never put an SD on my 5.56 AR. It's just too long. Yeah, it's only an inch, but it's still too long.
I agree. Thats what a 5.56mm suppressor is for.
As far as SHOT, the suppressor companies are horrible when it comes to this. SWR showed a suppressor last SHOT show that they STILL have yet to ship. AAC did the same with the integral 10/22 barrel. I have absolutely no desire to wait for a company who's sole motivation for showing something at SHOT is to get blog views when I have a BATF wait of 7+ months on top of that. I will gladly buy whatever is best on the market now, and then buy the latest and greatest when it is released.
Suppressors are the only area where I will not buy once, cry once. I will buy twice, cry twice. Waiting for SHOT releases is a fool's endeavor. By the time that SHOT show's models start to ship, there is another show with bigger, badder products being released right around the corner. I'd be waiting indefinitely.
I don't know shit about any of these 308 cans.... Weight, length... blah blah blah..
I can tell you that if someone swapped my 5.56 can for the SDN, It would take me quite a while to notice the difference. You don't even notice it in your hand... let alone on your gun. Sounds no different, feels no different... nothing.
When we were in the shop, I thought the box was for someone else's 5.56 can because it looked just like an M4-2000 box.
I agree. Thats what a 5.56mm suppressor is for.
As far as SHOT, the suppressor companies are horrible when it comes to this. SWR showed a suppressor last SHOT show that they STILL have yet to ship. AAC did the same with the integral 10/22 barrel. I have absolutely no desire to wait for a company who's sole motivation for showing something at SHOT is to get blog views when I have a BATF wait of 7+ months on top of that. I will gladly buy whatever is best on the market now, and then buy the latest and greatest when it is released.
Suppressors are the only area where I will not buy once, cry once. I will buy twice, cry twice. Waiting for SHOT releases is a fool's endeavor. By the time that SHOT show's models start to ship, there is another show with bigger, badder products being released right around the corner. I'd be waiting indefinitely.
I hope we're not going to just pick and choose bits and pieces to quote now and ignore the rest of the posts...
The "fools errand" IMO is cans in general. If I can get one that will do multiple things, then that starts to become less foolish. That's me, for my purposes. I'm almost always shooting with other people, most of whom are not shooting suppressed, which makes my having a can pretty useless in that environment. Having "one can to rule them all" is WAY more important to me than 3 dB on a piece of paper that I can't distinguish when shooting. As is saving 1+" when moving around, etc. At a bench? Yeah, I guess I'd take the longer, cheaper, less sturdy, but lighter weight can. But then if I'm mounting that on a gun that already weighs 10 lbs...
and I agree with you re: waiting for SHOT, but I don't use AAC or SWR timelines as my base. Surefire, in particular, seems to have a better handle on announcing cans and having them available in relatively short order vs. announcing them this year and having people still waiting for them to hit store shelves next year.
Eurodriver
01-17-12, 08:20
I hope we're not going to just pick and choose bits and pieces to quote now and ignore the rest of the posts...
The "fools errand" IMO is cans in general. If I can get one that will do multiple things, then that starts to become less foolish. That's me, for my purposes. I'm almost always shooting with other people, most of whom are not shooting suppressed, which makes my having a can pretty useless in that environment. Having "one can to rule them all" is WAY more important to me than 3 dB on a piece of paper that I can't distinguish when shooting. As is saving 1+" when moving around, etc. At a bench? Yeah, I guess I'd take the longer, cheaper, less sturdy, but lighter weight can. But then if I'm mounting that on a gun that already weighs 10 lbs...
and I agree with you re: waiting for SHOT, but I don't use AAC or SWR timelines as my base. Surefire, in particular, seems to have a better handle on announcing cans and having them available in relatively short order vs. announcing them this year and having people still waiting for them to hit store shelves next year.
I'm too busy to write long winded replies. I'm also on a phone in a waiting room.
For your purposes the n6 sounds great. I personally don't mind shaving yet another inch and almost 3oz off that by getting an m42000 and just buying a 762 suppressor that is quieter than the n6 for my 308 guns that I am not trying to clear rooms with or carry all day on classes.
I personally don't mind shaving yet another inch and almost 3oz off that by getting an m42000 and just buying a 762 suppressor that is quieter than the n6 for my 308 guns that I am not trying to clear rooms with or carry all day on classes.
I agree... Any gun we would run the 762 can on is already a heavy long range gun.
Not that weight is completely unimportant... with POI shift and all... but none of the guns we'd realistically deploy that can on need a silencer to be abreviated. The SDN is effectively an enlarged M4-2000. The baffle stack looks just the same.
The SDN6 is heavier than the SD. FYI.
Yeah, my bad.
I'm too busy to write long winded replies.
Or even read them at all and instead just snipe from the sidelines? :suicide2:
Perhaps you shouldn't reply to posts you don't have the time or inclination to give your full attention.
Since the extra 1" missing doesn't bother you, I'm curious as to what you DO use silencers for? I'm always interested to hear this as I can't really find much of a point at all outside of a few small areas in which I typically have no interest. IIRC you were buying/building/assembling a dedicated 5.56 suppressed gun, in which case no I wouldn't bother with a do-all can anyway. But then I wouldn't bother with a 7.62 can at all in that case either.
To further my long windedness...
Ignoring the utility of one can that can be used on 6.x, 5.56, 7.62x39, .308, 300 BLK, 5.45, etc. is pure folly for the sake of chasing a couple of dB that nobody can hear anyway. If people are looking to add cans to the safe for the sake of adding them, or entire guns for that matter, I guess I get it. Or if there is an operational need for them in terms of agencies, but for the non-LE civilian shooter being able to use one can, on a QD mount, and have it be constructed of better material to handle the variety AND be compact enough to make sense on some of the smaller guns, the N6 makes the most sense by far.
and I bet we'll get a few that make even more in the coming year.
Eurodriver
01-17-12, 10:33
Or even read them at all and instead just snipe from the sidelines? :suicide2:
Perhaps you shouldn't reply to posts you don't have the time or inclination to give your full attention.
Since the extra 1" missing doesn't bother you, I'm curious as to what you DO use silencers for? I'm always interested to hear this as I can't really find much of a point at all outside of a few small areas in which I typically have no interest. IIRC you were buying/building/assembling a dedicated 5.56 suppressed gun, in which case no I wouldn't bother with a do-all can anyway. But then I wouldn't bother with a 7.62 can at all in that case either.
To further my long windedness...
Ignoring the utility of one can that can be used on 6.x, 5.56, 7.62x39, .308, 300 BLK, 5.45, etc. is pure folly for the sake of chasing a couple of dB that nobody can hear anyway. If people are looking to add cans to the safe for the sake of adding them, or entire guns for that matter, I guess I get it. Or if there is an operational need for them in terms of agencies, but for the non-LE civilian shooter being able to use one can, on a QD mount, and have it be constructed of better material to handle the variety AND be compact enough to make sense on some of the smaller guns, the N6 makes the most sense by far.
and I bet we'll get a few that make even more in the coming year.
Snipe from the sidelines? Bro give me a break. Why are you so serious? When someone starts paying me to provide valuable insight on M4C, I'll take it seriously. Until then I'll write whatever doesn't violate the CoC.
I actually just wrote a very thorough, respectful reply to your previous post. I didn't post it because I didn't want to devolve this thread any further than where it already was heading. Looking back, I should have if only to show your arrogance.
Have a great day.
Mark has pics and possible video if he gets around to posting it.
Somehow we don't have video of swapping the cans on the M4. :confused:
Not on my camera at least.... forgot the point of this thread.... no difference in sound anyway I suppose.
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