Cutting Bolt Release

[Pax]

As I understand it, the weight of battery assist devices is the primary cause behind failures to lock back. I do intend to know how to utilize a standard bolt release to lock the bolt to the rear and practice this skill regularly with a standard lower, yadayadayada... However, seeing as I subscribe to the new school of the AR's manual of arms and I prefer to make use of time-saving battery assist devices, what issues could possibly arise from taking a cutoff wheel to the lower half of the bolt release of either a battery assist device-equipped bolt release or an extended bolt release like Phase 5's? Could I expect no issues and simply enhanced reliability of locking back when empty due to the lighter weight of the bolt release?

Edit: Im talking about cutting off the part in the red box below. And possibly the top of the ping pong paddle, if I found a design that allowed for that. Phase 5's skeletonized one.. Not so much. I dont find that I use either part of the ping pong and I expect and hope that its use will be gradually phased out over the next few years- but hey. What do I know..

http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/3036/rlease.jpg

Your thoughts and any info, please. I may just have at it to see what happens. Its a bolt release for gods sake, a couple bucks and I got a new one.

Also, I cant wait for lowers with built in battery assist devices. Not just right-side bolt releases and such. My kingdom for integration.

[sandsunsurf]

If you cut off the entire part you have in the box, you will not have a functional bolt catch. There is a spring and buffer assembly right under that part. You could maybe cut off the part the protrudes slightly, but that seems worthless because it's such a tiny piece.

[nimdabew]

Suggestion: Don't start taking a dremel to your gun to improve perceived reliability. You are liable to f-something up.

[GTifosi]

If weight truly is the issue, why not just go with a heavier gauge spring to compensate for it?

Bigger bore wire, not longer length.

And yes, cutting that nub off would be right at the top of bad plans.
Working the ping pong paddle would be on the list somewhere because you'd be weakening the area that the biggest lever arm works at.

Know the mechanics of the device and the physics involved before attempting to modify. Especially something that itself is a modification of another device.

[Dionysusigma]

Thing is, the spring that isn't strong enough to operate a heavy bolt catch isn't the bolt catch spring - it's the magazine spring.

[GTifosi]

Yes, you're right.
I was on a different tack under the presumption that the device had some semblance of mechanical balance to compensate for the additional weight.

[Iraqgunz]

I say start cutting and get back to us.

[DeltaSierra]

Why doesn't my bolt catch work? What is that little spring and plunger that popped out of my rifle?


:D


I say start cutting and get back to us.

[Eurodriver]

As I understand it, the weight of battery assist devices is the primary cause behind failures to lock back.

Clue

I do intend to know how to utilize a standard bolt release to lock the bolt to the rear and practice this skill regularly with a standard lower, yadayadayada...

Do you? Because it seems like you've already jumped into modifying it

However, seeing as I subscribe to the new school of the AR's manual of arms

Which manual of arms is that? BAD's?

and I prefer to make use of time-saving battery assist devices,

...except when the bolt doesn't lock back, right?

what issues could possibly arise from taking a cutoff wheel to the lower half of the bolt release of either a battery assist device-equipped bolt release or an extended bolt release like Phase 5's?

Many. First, as has been said, by cutting the lower piece off you will not have a functional bolt catch. Second, cutting the paddle will result in a weakened bolt release catch. Lastly, I think another issue that you've forgotten to mention is there are a bunch of issues with people locking the bolt to the rear by accident due to having this huge lever on the side of your weapon.



If people spent half as much time fixing real problems on the AR platform, it wouldn't have taken 50 years for the Gunfighter Charging handle to come out.

[Suwannee Tim]

I'm with IG on this. There is no problem that can't be made worse with a Dremel tool.

[Tweak]

I'd suggest cutting off everything behind and below the box.

[MistWolf]

Not that I think the lever should be cut in the manner described, but it won't weaken the paddle unless the cut is made too close to the pin hole.

How do we know that the problems with the bolt locking back on the last shot is caused by the extra weight of the lever? If the mag spring is good enough to raise the next round into place, it is more than enough to raise the lever

[Pax]

Oh gee well thanks guys. Never swapped a bolt release before, never checked where the spring was. I do hate guys who suggest magical fixes when they dont understand the system theyre talking about... Shit.

Still.. Would be nice to see some lighter devices marketed towards guys who intend to make use of it and not its ping pong paddle..

As for replacing the mag springs, end users would have to replace every mag spring which may prove costly. A single part solution that worked with any and all mags seems like a better idea, but I dont exactly have my own CNC mill.

Anyhow. Would be nice to see it... All Im saying.

[Pax]

If the mag spring is good enough to raise the next round into place, it is more than enough to raise the lever

Ive thought the same. Yet somehow I experience consistent FTLBs with particular springs when using a BAD, and reliable performance when not using a BAD.

I dont want this to turn into another "diagnose my AR troubles" thread, but if we could begin to understand the true causes of FTLBs with BADs, it would be very helpful.

[MistWolf]

Just a SWAG- The BAD lever should be lighter than even a single cartridge. However, if there is some kind of drag at the pivot point (or anywhere else) that could slow down the mag spring pushing the bolt catch into place just long enough for the bolt to over ride it

[ForTehNguyen]

I would think any drag from a tighter fit lowers would be more of a factor than the weight of the bolt catch. I have six BADs that all work with looser fitting bolt catches and lowers.

[Suwannee Tim]

Your problem is not so much weight as rotational inertia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moment_of_inertia). The bolt latch has to rotate in a short time, the more rotational inertia it has the slower it will rotate. The BADD lever has a lot more inertia than the standard lever. You are not going to be able to reduce the inertia of it by much and still have it function as you want. The trouble is that mass has more and more effect the farther it is from the rotational axis. Imagine you are trying to rotate a barbell bar 180 degrees. It is a lot eaiser to rotate it about the long axis than it is to rotate about the short axis.

[MistWolf]

Even so, the moment of the lever would be measured in inch/grams even considering the mag follower is on the short side of the fulcrum (pivot point). If the silly thing were made of steel, maybe. But it's made of aluminum, yes? Even so, it appears the mag follower has less distance to travel to engage bolt lock than it does to raise a round into feeding position.

I did forget about the bolt hold open device spring. It does add to the resistance but it shouldn't be much

[Dave_M]

If you're having problems with the bolt locking back, may I suggest this new conversion which will fix the issue?

Link (http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=LMP101)

[Suwannee Tim]

.......may I suggest this new conversion......

That's pretty clever. Wonder who came up with it.


.....inch/grams......

Pound meters MistWolf. Milli pound meters maybe. Or micro pound meters. Something like that.

[MistWolf]

...Pound meters MistWolf. Milli pound meters maybe. Or micro pound meters. Something like that.

Sometimes life is best described by a mixed metaphor. Or metaphive. I was framed, I tell ya- it was dyspepsia, you know- when your brain gets letters mixed up with cream cheese . Sometimes you drift over to the other side of the tracks and into an alternate reality where people think ARs that are descended from Mount Olympus or are brought forth by Cecil the Seasick Sea Serpent are as good as those from My Little Pony and Rob_Serling stands on a street corner to chart your way to the TOSlite Zone

[Tweak]

. But it's made of aluminum, yes?

Srsly? A Al bolt catch? :stop:

[MistWolf]

Well, now that you mention it.....