Is the SA-80 the 'Most Accurate Assault Rifle in the World'? [Archive]

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Maxwell

01-16-12, 15:47

DeltaSierra

01-16-12, 15:56

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=92848

SteyrAUG

01-16-12, 16:09

Good lord, who wrote that drivel?

The SA80A2 is "the most reliable weapons of their type in the world"?!?

Even if they were specifically referring to bullpups they are wrong.

Maxwell

01-16-12, 16:23

Good lord, who wrote that drivel?

The SA80A2 is "the most reliable weapons of their type in the world"?!?

Even if they were specifically referring to bullpups they are wrong.

But is it the most inherently accurate? Also, is the SUSAT superior to the ACOG and similar type optics?

crusader377

01-16-12, 16:50

I can't comment on the SA80 accuracy but from everything that I read, I think it qualifies as the worst assault rifle adopted by any major country.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/oct/10/military.jamesmeek

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/sep/27/military.qanda

http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_SA80.html

DeltaSierra

01-16-12, 17:01

But is it the most inherently accurate? Also, is the SUSAT superior to the ACOG and similar type optics?

Explain to me what makes a firearm inherently accurate, and you will answer your own question.

Steyr, I suspect that whoever wrote that piece must benefit somehow from the use of the SA-80. Anyone that could write that many lies and nonsense is such a short article must work for whatever company manufactures the thing....:D

subzero

01-16-12, 17:14

I don't buy it for a second. That stinks of the same kind of anecdotal "data" that says the AK is inaccurate. An AK has shitty sights and ammo that doesn't shoot flat. The SA80 has a 4x scope and ammo built for accuracy. I'll bet my lunch money that on even terms, they're pretty close to each other.

As far as the SUSAT goes, as much as my eyes would love a 4x scope on a square range, I'd be looking to ditch it for an RDS as soon as I could. The blocky post doesn't lend itself to distance shooting or fast moving stuff. A chevron or donut with a BDC would be great, which is why the boffins at Trijicon put them...in the ACOG.

I doubt the SA80 has anything truly going for it. It's history reads like a warning to any government looking to build their own small arms.

lloydkristmas

01-16-12, 17:29

You know your gun really sucks when HK cant even work out all the kinks....

Ed L.

01-16-12, 17:56

I've read this quite a bit (example (http://www.famous-guns.com/sa80/)), and I was wondering if you guys agree. And if not, is there any real consensus or evidence for which platform is the the most accurate?

The website you linked strikes me as one put together by repeating things off the internet without regard to the validity of the information and without interaction with people who have first-hand experience.

Heavy Metal

01-16-12, 18:01

Good lord, who wrote that drivel?

The SA80A2 is "the most reliable weapons of their type in the world"?!?

Even if they were specifically referring to bullpups they are wrong.

It is the best of its type! It is the best shitty British Bullpup ever issued!

Kyohte

01-16-12, 18:51

Anyone who doesn't like the SA80 is a fat, American kid

...at least that's what the people commenting on the article believe...

Eurodriver

01-16-12, 19:11

Anyone who doesn't like the SA80 is a fat, American kid

...at least that's what the people commenting on the article believe...

To the fat 12 year old american kids who commented on something they arent even old enough to talk about… do us all a favour and go shooting deer with your daddys pop gun, as you are qquite simply obnoctios arrogant little fat kids with your burger and fries fat arse bubbling out the sides of your mums computer chair.
Just so you know, playing computer games on your mums pc doesnt qualify you to comment on real life rifles used in real life situations. I have used this weapon in many scenario’s and numerous theatres, and you get what your given.
Any serving lad will tell you the (adult american soldiers) what you may become in a few years when you fail high school like most of them,, most of the u.s soldiers would trade the current u.s army issue kit for ours any day, cos its shyite (including the weapon.
So to round it all up your country is both disolusioned and ignorant.
Now sod off and get to bed before your mum gets back from the trailor park with uncle sammy.

hahaha

skullworks

01-16-12, 19:35

Also, is the SUSAT superior to the ACOG and similar type optics?
Having used the SUSAT in the Swedish Armed Forces (mounted on an AK5B (licensed FNC) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ak_5#FFV_Ak_5B)) I can tell you it is a POS that would not hold its zero and where the reticle post would come lose. I don't have any real experience with the ACOG, but I doubt it would be any worse than the SUSAT.

variablebinary

01-16-12, 20:19

I know one washed up fat piece of shit Brit, wanna be internet paratrooper that swears up and down that the SA80 is the best weapon ever and is far more accurate than the M4.

Though, most other people have a brain.

steve--oh

01-16-12, 22:28

But is it the most inherently accurate? Also, is the SUSAT superior to the ACOG and similar type optics?

No. In fact it is vastly inferior. Which is why they switched over to the ACOG on their newer versions.

I've yet to get a brit to admit the SA80 is a piece of crap. But they will stop just short of saying that. There's a reason their "special" units use the M4.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2469/3929964257_fde71250d8_z.jpg?zz=1

RogerinTPA

01-16-12, 22:30

The writer chose the wrong day to stop eating hallucinogenic dog food after he wrote that garbage. I never met a Brit who liked the weapon, in any variation, from beginning to end. They should have used a coat hanger on that abortion long ago.

CRAMBONE

01-16-12, 22:46

Anyone who doesn't like the SA80 is a fat, American kid

...at least that's what the people commenting on the article believe...

-All the Brits I have talked to, who have had it as an issued weapon seem to hate it also. They all loved the M-4 though.

CRAMBONE

01-16-12, 22:48

Does the SUSAT have an upside down pointed stick for a reticle?

mkmckinley

01-16-12, 22:58

Didn't the Brits have to start using underloaded ammo for their SA-80s? If true that should tell you something right there.

SteyrAUG

01-17-12, 00:08

But is it the most inherently accurate? Also, is the SUSAT superior to the ACOG and similar type optics?

Unlikely. The linkage system in bullpups usually prevent them from being as accurate as standard carbines.

TOrrock

01-17-12, 00:20

But is it the most inherently accurate? Also, is the SUSAT superior to the ACOG and similar type optics?

Hell the **** no.

Read the link that Delta Seirra provided, it should answer all your questions.

montrala

01-17-12, 08:21

Good lord, who wrote that drivel?

The SA80A2 is "the most reliable weapons of their type in the world"?!?

Even if they were specifically referring to bullpups they are wrong.

Technically speaking it is true. "SA80A2 is most reliable of all SA80s in the world" :D

Abraxas

01-17-12, 08:42

No. In fact it is vastly inferior. Which is why they switched over to the ACOG on their newer versions.

I've yet to get a brit to admit the SA80 is a piece of crap. But they will stop just short of saying that. There's a reason their "special" units use the M4. I have heard a Brit call them shit. He was a Royal Marine and he said in his opinion the SA-80 was junk and he preferred M4's

sbd1

01-17-12, 13:02

The "Most Accurate" comment is the "Official" MoD announcement. Take a look at the MoD Factsheet - http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/FactSheets/OperationsFactsheets/OperationsInAfghanistanWeapons.htm

Choice quote "This reliability is combined with accuracy, versatility and ergonomic design. It is considered a first-class weapon system and world leader in small arms."

Some light reading which reflects the truth - http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/SA-80

Aries144

01-17-12, 13:10

Considering their strong attachment to reality in other areas, like social reform, policing, economics, and government, why would their stated facts about their military's issued rifle be any less accurate?

Abraxas

01-17-12, 13:10

sbd1

01-17-12, 13:32

Which is why every country in the world is lining up to buy them and make the switch for their militaries, wait what........

Perhaps this quote from the 2nd of the links I posted might be the better answer -

"At the first Services rifle meeting at Bisley after general issue of the SA80, squaddies could be seen relaxing in the sun and wearing T-shirts made by the late, great Pete Bloom which bore an outline of the SA80 in profile, and the legend : Designed by the Ignorant, Built by the Incompetent, Issued to the Unfortunate. A passing general who'd come to distribute prizes had a sense-of-humour failure and had the T-shirts banned as "bad for morale"."

There is also this from the same page -

"At first the SA80 family was known for its reliability, but not in the sense that it would work as well as the SLRs that it had replaced, in fact they where known to not fire, break, shed parts and even to fall apart, despite this, the L85A1's that were used in the Persian Gulf war had no reported failures (apart from all the chronic stoppages, parts breakages, failures etc reported in the press). Where the previous author got this idea is a mystery. To quote the leaked LANDSET report from 1991 entitled "Equipment Performance (SA80) during operation Granby (the Gulf War)",
"SA80 did not perform reliably in the sandy conditions of combat and training. Stoppages were frequent despite the considerable and diligent efforts to prevent them. It is extremely difficult to isolate the prime cause of the stoppages. It is, however, quite clear that infantrymen did not have CONFIDENCE in their personal weapon. Most expected a stoppage in the first magazine fired. Some platoon commanders considered that casualties would have occurred due to weapon stoppages if the enemy had put up any resistance in the trench and bunker clearing operations. even discounting the familiarisation period of desert conditions, when some may have still been using the incorrect lubrication drill, stoppages continued to occur."
further, under the rubric of "mechanical failure", we learn that...
"the most common mechanical failure was the tip breaking off the firing pin.""

Magic_Salad0892

01-17-12, 13:34

I loved the SA-80 in Rainbow Six Vegas, and Call of Duty.

Super accurate, super reliable, I could reload with my eyes closed, and be super fast.

Also pretty powerful.

:p

Bad Medicine

01-17-12, 14:40

I loved the SA-80 in Rainbow Six Vegas, and Call of Duty.

Super accurate, super reliable, I could reload with my eyes closed, and be super fast.

Also pretty powerful.

:p

Fat kid! :)

Vitor

01-17-12, 16:00

Well, having those long barrels doesn't hurt accuracy.

DeltaSierra

01-17-12, 16:24

Well, having those long barrels doesn't hurt accuracy.

A long barrel, in and of itself does not mean that a weapon will be more accurate. In fact, shorter barrels tend to be more accurate, as they are stiffer and don't whip as much as longer barrels.

NorthDakota

01-18-12, 15:04

I asked a Brit about his impressions of the SA-80 when I was near Basra in OIF2. He said he liked it but did not have anything to compare it to.

Most of us on M4C have probably used several different carbine/rifle designs over the years and have access to ranges/firearms on a regular basis.

So, if you could only experiencing using only1 rifle in your life and it was being ridiculed, chances are you may put on a show defending it, but deep down want to try others....

It's good to be a US Citizen.