View Full Version : What is the smallest, useful handgun for discreet CCW?
Eurodriver
01-16-12, 18:34
I put this here because I think titanium 5 shot .38 +Ps are smaller than most semi auto handguns, but if you can think of a semi auto that would suit my needs I'm all ears.
I am looking for something that is in a decent caliber that I can conceal wearing almost nothing. I want something that will easily fit in a pocket and not weigh it down. I want something tiny. I want to have this gun on me when I go to the beach in board shorts and not have anyone bat an eye at the huge bulge. A true "Concealed is concealed" gun.
This isn't for daily CCW. I'm not concerned about being outgunned or only having five rounds as this will only be used when it is physically impossible to carry anything bigger.
Is a Titanium .38 special (made by whom?) my best bet?
Ruger LCR.
Do not recommend Diamondback DB9.
iPad/Tapatalk
fwiw, the S&W 642 is what my wife carries. No exposed hammer to get caught on anything. While I carry the SA Micro .45, also small in its own right, but heavier than the 642.
the 642 loaded with +P is my lightest carry gun. Next up in my line is the G27 which is about the same size but heavier.
snackgunner
01-16-12, 18:54
Im still waiting on something in 9mm thats the same size of the ruger lcp and just as reliable.
But for now its the jframe revolver that I carry around if I want something small.
I really like my S&W 342 for it's light weight and 5 for sure shots.
I also have a Kahr PM9 and a 642 but the 342 gets carried a lot more than the others.
The LCP is really easy to conceal, but I found that mine was unreliable.
I moved to a S&W 442. It always works and is not noticeably harder to hide than the LCP.
In board shorts, a smartcarry and 442, or LCR would be a winning combination.
You will probably say this is not effective, but I wouldn't want to be shot with it.
It fits all your other criteria.
http://www.northamericanarms.com/firearms/lr/llr-hg.html
suthrncop66
01-16-12, 20:08
I carry a sig 238 in my pocket and a kahr pm40 either in a holster or in pocket......i think the pm's are about as small as you are going to find. I did pick up a lcr in 357 I am thinking about switching to
I used to use a Colt .380 Mustang (NiteLite). Now, pretty much a Walther PPS in 9mm. Great gun and that would be my vote. My second choice would be an HK P2000SK.
Eurodriver
01-16-12, 20:28
All have been taken into consideration.
Is the 342 worth the extra cost over the 642?
You will probably say this is not effective, but I wouldn't want to be shot with it.
It fits all your other criteria.
http://www.northamericanarms.com/firearms/lr/llr-hg.html
I agree that it is definitely small and concealable in ever sense but I want something that will stop a determined threat on my life (as opposed to just a mugger looking to score an easy few bucks)
.22LR doesn't cut it.
Eurodriver
01-16-12, 20:30
I used to use a Colt .380 Mustang (NiteLite). Now, pretty much a Walther PPS in 9mm. Great gun and that would be my vote. My second choice would be an HK P2000SK.
I would just carry my G26 if I considered the P2000SK.
This gun needs to be *small*. Enough to be in close proximity to people, have females give me hugs and not have anyone feel a "gun".
I would just carry my G26 if I considered the P2000SK.
This gun needs to be *small*. Enough to be in close proximity to people, have females give me hugs and not have anyone feel a "gun".
Consider a Walther PPS. I got that instead of a P2000SK or Glock 26 or M&P 9c because I was much more huggable with the Walther.
Check out the Rohrbaugh R9.
I agree that it is definitely small and concealable in ever sense but I want something that will stop a determined threat on my life (as opposed to just a mugger looking to score an easy few bucks)
.22LR doesn't cut it.
They actually make a .22mag as well. http://www.northamericanarms.com/firearms/magnums/wasp/ms-tw.html
A guy on Youutube shoots it at 5 feet into gelatin and it tumbles through 14". Two 7" blocks end to end. Stopped right at the end of second block. Others were showing good accuracy out to 50'.
You could get a piece of Kydex and make a sleeve that covers the cylinder, hammer and trigger. and it would fit in a zip lock so you could go swimming.
I don't care what kind of bathing suit you wear, if you get in the water you will print like crazy when you get out. With that little revolver you could actually go swimming.
Don't forget you need to figure a holster into other equations as well.
I don't think what you want exists.
J-frame is the smallest I'll go for a primary. If the J is the primary, it'll be backed up by a second one. I have yet to find clothing that a J-frame can't hide within.
Tomcat 3032 8 rounds of 32acp plus three spare mags is my super small bug gun.
I've got a desantis nemesis pocket holster for my 642... disappears in the pocket of most of my pants while still being easy to access, with the exception being when seated....not easy way to get at it then...
Beat Trash
01-16-12, 21:20
All have been taken into consideration.
Is the 342 worth the extra cost over the 642?
To me, no.
Here's an actually account of the NAA in action.
http://www.northamericanarms.com/news/news01c.pdf
I don't know of any regular handgun you can wear at the beach with nothing but board shorts on, having girls hugging you and have no one know you are armed except something like this. Not to mention if the girls decide to sit in your lap or wants you to actually go in swimming.
The PPS seems to get all the chatter as the new hotness lately.
I made this for myself but never really intended to share it, so pardon the lack of fancy formatting.
chart (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ajl2UPK0UHPsdDBwbUZSc0NqUnowMmVnS2tqSG9hd2c)
Is the 342 worth the extra cost over the 642?
To me, no.
I'm on the fence on this, I just weighed both fully loaded with Speer 135 grains +P. The 342 was 13.70 oz and the 642 was 16.75 oz.
You do pay dearly to save those 3 ounces but I do like the wider black sight on the 342. My old eyes pick it up much easier.
If I had to pick today I'd go with the 642 and save the $300. It would be great if they offered the 642 with a pin on sight.
Ruger LCR in 357 flavor. Handles recoil 10X better than the lightweight smiths ( I own both) , has a better trigger pull ( but worse reset) and is only 19.2 Oz loaded with 125gr gold dots in .357
Don Robison
01-17-12, 10:32
Rohrbaugh R9; not cheap, but works well and conceals very easily.
http://www.rohrbaughfirearms.com/
I've tried a g27, S&W 642 and a keltec pf9. Right now I'm hooked on the 642. It seems to disappear in pocket with a good holster. It looks like you have keys in there.
The keltec was tiny and easy to hide but I don't like pocket carrying autos. For me the squared off back seems to make drawing them tricky while the 642 slides right out.
If I appendix carry the keltec's size was perfect for me. I just had some reliability issues with and sold it off. I suspect a walther pps would be my goto appendix carry if I bought one.
I had a KelTek P11 for a while as my main carry gun. Small, light and after the first 100 or so rounds it was flawless. Sold it to pick up my G27 because I liked the trigger much better on the Glock, but the P11 would just about disappear in a pocket, which is not as easy with the Glock.
Eurodriver
01-17-12, 13:00
I think I'm going with a 642. I never liked auto loaders for pocket carry for the reasons above. This isn't necessarily something I'd swim with but I think I could throw it in my pocket and it wouldn't raise any eyebrows
Powder_Burn
01-17-12, 13:07
Walther PPS...comparable to a J-frame in size with the capability to run either 9mm or .40. Can also be scaled 'up' for use as a primary handgun with factory extended mags and utilization of the light rail.
Beat Trash
01-17-12, 16:25
Is the 342 worth the extra cost over the 642?
I'm on the fence on this, I just weighed both fully loaded with Speer 135 grains +P. The 342 was 13.70 oz and the 642 was 16.75 oz.
You do pay dearly to save those 3 ounces but I do like the wider black sight on the 342. My old eyes pick it up much easier.
If I had to pick today I'd go with the 642 and save the $300. It would be great if they offered the 642 with a pin on sight.
I have a 642. Keep selling them off, regret decision 6 months later, replace with another, keep for a couple of years then repeat the process. On my third and last 642. This one is staying put. Actually thinking about having it engraved with the following, "Do NOT sell me of stupid!"
I've shot the 642 next to the 342. With the same ammunition, I much prefer shooting the 642 vs. the 342. I then try carrying both guns. I notice the weight difference more when shooting than when carrying. My carry method for the 642/342 is front pocket carry, if that matters.
I like the sights of the 342, but not enough to justify the extra cost. I bought a bright orange paint marker made by Krylon. A dab on the front sight ramp and I can now see the sight. I was talking to a female officer who is assigned to our Firearms Training Unit about this. She enlightened me to fingernail polish markers. They apparently have an ultra small brush tip. This would also work.
I own a Kahr PM9. Great to carry, but almost too small. Not much to grab ahold of while under stress.
I've owned a Glock 26 since about two years after they were first introduced. I have a kydex pocket holster for it made by FIST. Great combo if you have a pocket large enough. For IWB carry, the Glock 26 steps aside for the Glock 19. I can conceal both equally with an IWB holster. So I'll take a G19 over a G26 for IWB carry.
I bought a Walther PPS 9mm last summer. Still warming up to this gun. About the same size and weight as the Glock 26, except it's about .25" thinner. (The Glock 26 is actually shorter in height when both guns have their shortest magazines in them.)
The PPS is pushing the envelope as being too big for a pocket gun, in my opinion. But for an IWB gun, it would just slip in there and you'd forget all about it. The PPS in a tuckable kydex IWB holster is a nice combination of small in size yet still able to handle and shoot effectively under stress gun and holster combo.
You also really have to take into consideration the physical build of the individual. I have friends big enough that a Glock 19 could almost become a pocket gun, and friends small enough that a Ruger LCP is pushing it.
Thanks for the paint tip, I'll try that on the 642.
I have found the same problem on the Kahr PM9, for me there is not enough to grab in a hurry. I don't have any problems with j frames.
Good luck hanging onto the 342 this time,,
I might have gone into the deep end with the 340PD, but I love it.
Not really any "good" with it but for an up close and ugly fight it meets the need. Bottom line with that is more practice to increase effective range although it is arguably unneeded.
i have no interest in lighting off a 38 cal round in anything lighter than an airweight j-frame (with steel cylinder)
if you can't conceal that thing ask yourself if a speedo is really appropriate attire.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-18-12, 04:17
Smallest I'll go is the 642, my next up is my G26. The J Frame doesnt look like a gun in your pocket, the outline is broken up pretty well. It also carries pretty well, esp in deep coat or trouser pocket witha pocket-holster. YMMV.
When wearing board shorts I carry a Keltec PF9 using their pocket clip. You have to be careful having the trigger exposed when attaching it to your attire but it conceals like no other. I have another PF9 that I carry in a Galco ankle holster intended for a 1911. Perfect fit and ridiculously easy to carry.
I'm very pleased with my Kahr CM9. I'm at 500+ rounds with not a single hiccup.
Lost River
01-18-12, 16:32
I use a 442 with Crimson Trace boot grips as a BUG anytime I am in uniform. It is the smallest thing I am willing to get into a fight with. The CT grips make a huge difference in getting accurate hits in moderate to low light.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/002-6.jpg
Eurodriver
01-18-12, 16:56
My local dealer has a 642 NIB for $415.
I think Ill go handle it this weekend along with an LCP and another other small handguns (auto and revolver) there are.
I really like the folding .22 NAA, but I really want something with more stopping power than a .22LR or even .22 Mag. I'd just carry my Walther P22 if I didn't.
My local dealer has a 642 NIB for $415.
I think Ill go handle it this weekend along with an LCP and another other small handguns (auto and revolver) there are.
I really like the folding .22 NAA, but I really want something with more stopping power than a .22LR or even .22 Mag. I'd just carry my Walther P22 if I didn't.
Grant has them for 340 I believe.
Eurodriver
01-18-12, 18:18
Grant has them for 340 I believe.
Thanks.
Grant's website is so confusing sometimes, as unless you search for a specific manufacturer you will miss almost everything he sells
I fired a PF9 last weekend. To say that recoil from that thing was violent would be an understatement. The problem was not only that it frankly was damn near painful but was also hard to control. I'm all about "carried a lot, shot a little" but I would have concerns about actually keeping control of the thing if I needed to shoot it.
Smallest I'll go is the 642, my next up is my G26.
Same here, but the 642 gets the nod 95% of the time. While I really like the way my baby Glock shoots as well--if not better--than its larger brethren, as others have stated it's really not much more trouble to step up to a G19.
As to the question regarding whether the 342 is worth the extra cost...as much as I'd love to say yes ( I'd *love* a good excuse to add one to my already substantial J-frame collection), for me the answer is "no."
lethal dose
01-18-12, 19:29
Kahr is top dog for small semiautos, IMHO. I love mine.
Too bad that Diamondback has reports of being a POS, the thin design is very appealing.
Too bad that Diamondback has reports of being a POS, the thin design is very appealing.
seems like every tiny 9 ends up being a huge disappointment.... though i have been noticing more and more happy kahr owners....
I have one pistol that is always within arms length...even if I'm in the shower...(on a little shelf above the showerhead) It isn't the only pistol I will carry when I have other options but it serves as a good little BUG.
Pros
All stainless steel construction
Low number of parts
Concealable in pants pocket
Reliable
Caliber .45 ACP
No exposed hammer
DAO
Cons
Somewhat heavy for size
DAO (Yes, I know it is on both lists)
5+1 Capacity (one more than a j frame tho)
Heavy trigger pull
Practically non existent sight (Full length groove on top of slide)
It's an AMT Back Up in .45 ACP.
I fired a PF9 last weekend. To say that recoil from that thing was violent would be an understatement. The problem was not only that it frankly was damn near painful but was also hard to control. I'm all about "carried a lot, shot a little" but I would have concerns about actually keeping control of the thing if I needed to shoot it.
Yep, I took one half day class and used my pf9. After 300 rounds I had a bruised/cut up checkerboard patter on my thumb and heel of my palm. A bike tire cut up or a houge over grip helped a lot for the next time I put more than 100 rounds through it. The killer on the pf9 was the about 1/150 failure to feed. It happened with all 4 mags, I'd polished the feed ramp and sitll no luck. Maybe they are great guns but I'd lost confidence in it. Then took my g27 through a 500 round day long class with 0 problems and much less pain.
Eurodriver
01-20-12, 09:32
Any reason to go with the 642 over the 442? Corrosion resistant (saltwater?) weight, etc.
My local dealer has a 642 NIB for $415.
I think Ill go handle it this weekend along with an LCP and another other small handguns (auto and revolver) there are.
My girlfriend and her mother strap LCPs I found the length of pretravel to be ridiculous. Then again its for close in fighting and not 50 yd precision work so you can just slap the trigger if you want.
Any reason to go with the 642 over the 442? Corrosion resistant (saltwater?) weight, etc.
corrosion resistance is definitely worthwhile on a deep concealment gun... Not sure what the finish on the 442 is.. might just be blued.
Eurodriver
01-21-12, 20:32
http://i39.tinypic.com/2iksaxk.jpg
Thanks guys. Fits absolutely GREAT in my pocket with an uncle mike's holster.
It bugs me when people rule out a small, concealable firearm designed for carry because it is uncomfortable to shoot at the range. If the firearm's sole purpose in life is to be carried concealed, be reliable, and stop a threat, I don't care much how comfortable it is. They aren't designed to be fun to shoot at the range. They aren't designed to be tack drivers at 25yds with short, crisp triggers. They are designed to be carried! Used when necessary. Work when called upon. If a light, easily concealed firearm is going to allow more people to decide to carry more often, then that is a good thing.
I personally carry a PF9. It's a bit of a handful at the range. Distance groups don't get posted on my fridge. But it gets carried alot, always by my side. The LC9 I've heard is a bit more comfortable to shoot. But it's slightly thicker, slightly longer, slightly heavier, etc. As long as it's reliable and gets carried, that is what matters most.
I'm not specifically suggesting Keltec as I know people have had issues with them. Mine works well but I wouldn't hesitate to suggest a J frame, Kahr, Rohrbaugh if you will carry it 100% of the time over a Glock subcompact you carry 75% of the time.
It bugs me when people rule out a small, concealable firearm designed for carry because it is uncomfortable to shoot at the range.
I don't think most are ruling things out because of range comfort. I have stated the LCP has a terrible trigger which isn't even good for shooting at 7yds at an indoor range. Add to that low light conditions, stress from actually finding youself in an live scenario where you're using a firearm against living flesh AND the person is trying to kill/rob you or a loved one which most people don't have first hand experience with, and those sights and that trigger can become more of an issue.
There's nothing uncomfortable about the LCP, it doesn't hurt my hand, it's not loud, it doesn't weigh too much. I would just rather keep the majority of my shots in the 9 ring from 25yds on the range with my Glock and rapidly employ the exact same gun I shoot on the range in a self defense scenario and have everything be muscle memory because of the thousands of rounds I put through it each month.
Suwannee Tim
01-22-12, 07:03
Any reason to go with the 642 over the 442? Corrosion resistant (saltwater?) weight, etc.
None of the S&W revolvers are really corrosion resistant. I have a 340PD, the trigger and cylinder latch both rusted, I don't know what else internally as I have not had it apart. My wife has a 642, same thing. I have a Ruger LCR which has not yet rusted anywhere.
A simple Ruger LCR, is my pocket gun for a quick run to Starbucks or a long walk with the dogs...
None of the S&W revolvers are really corrosion resistant. I have a 340PD, the trigger and cylinder latch both rusted, I don't know what else internally as I have not had it apart. My wife has a 642, same thing. I have a Ruger LCR which has not yet rusted anywhere.
I keep mine pretty well oiled, but have had no issues.... of course you live in florida and i live in colorado, so that may well be the reason.
does anyone get these guns duracoated?
Suwannee Tim
01-22-12, 13:43
.....does anyone get these guns duracoated?
I had the cylinder latch and trigger on my 340PD and my .22 coated. I am HARD on a carry gun. Sweat, river water, dirt, they have a rough life.
My LCR is pristine with this treatment.
None of the S&W revolvers are really corrosion resistant. I have a 340PD, the trigger and cylinder latch both rusted, I don't know what else internally as I have not had it apart.
Ain't that the truth. When stainless guns were first becoming popular, guys thought they didn't have to clean or oil them. We'd see them at quals looking like rusted boat anchors.
Thanks.
Grant's website is so confusing sometimes, as unless you search for a specific manufacturer you will miss almost everything he sells
Yes. Always search by manufacturer, package deals or new products (and then scroll through the pages).
C4
For me, I hate auto's chambered in .380 Auto. I think the cartridge sucks and auto's chambered in it are typically NOT reliable.
So for me, I am a HUGE FAN of Walther PPS. Once textured, is easily controlled, three mag options are available (along with NS's). I have shot 3-3.5" groups with it at 25yds. So it is very accurate.
The S&W Snubby 38 (442/642/340) would be my next choice.
My third choice would be the S&W .22 Magnum revolver. They are even lighter than the 442/642 and give you more bullets in the gun. They are especially great for shooters that are recoil sensitive.
C4
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Grant's%20weapons/PPS.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/SW/103351a.jpg
For me, I hate auto chambered in .380 Auto. I think the cartridge sucks and auto's chambered in it are typically NOT reliable.
So for me, I am a HUGE FAN of Walther PPS. Once textured, is easily controlled, three mag options are available (along with NS's). I have shot 3-3.5" groups with it at 25yds. So it is very accurate.
The S&W Snubby 38 (442/642/340) would be my next choice.
My third choice would be the S&W .22 Magnum revolver. They are even lighter than the 442/642 and give you more bullets in the gun. They are especially great for shooters that are recoil sensitive.
C4
I've got to try one of the PPS's. They really seem to be getting more attention.
As far as the 351C, has S&W been shipping any more of them? I've got a couple of family members that would be good candidates for one. With 7 shots of Hornady or Gold Dot, they sure seem like they'd be viable for some folks.
I've got to try one of the PPS's. They really seem to be getting more attention.
As far as the 351C, has S&W been shipping any more of them? I've got a couple of family members that would be good candidates for one. With 7 shots of Hornady or Gold Dot, they sure seem like they'd be viable for some folks.
I have the PPS LE (NS's and three mags) version in stock (two left).
The 351C and the other one with the fiber optic front sight just came in. Two of each are in stock currently.
I also have cases of the Speer .22 Mag GP ammo. :D
C4
Suwannee Tim
01-22-12, 16:29
For me, I hate auto's chambered in .380 Auto. I think the cartridge sucks and auto's chambered in it are typically NOT reliable.......
I've had several over the years, all would run like a scalded dog clean and wet, none would work dirty or dry. You don't want a wet gun in your pocket and even if you don't care it won't be wet for long nor clean. The cartridge is anemic and when your auto is a single shot, well, let's just say it's no confidence builder. I remember my last day carrying a 380, I got into a confrontation with someone in my front yard, I had my hand on my 380 and he had his hand on something. I backed my ass up to the front porch, up the steps and backwards through the front door. By the time I got a real gun he was gone. The next day I got a 5 shot revolver. The next week I got a real estate agent.
I've had several over the years, all would run like a scalded dog clean and wet, none would work dirty or dry. You don't want a wet gun in your pocket and even if you don't care it won't be wet for long nor clean. The cartridge is anemic and when your auto is a single shot, well, let's just say it's no confidence builder. I remember my last day carrying a 380, I got into a confrontation with someone in my front yard, I had my hand on my 380 and he had his hand on something. I backed my ass up to the front porch, up the steps and backwards through the front door. By the time I got a real gun he was gone. The next day I got a 5 shot revolver. The next week I got a real estate agent.
Smart man.
C4
I have noticed that the trigger pull on my 351C is extremely heavy, and substantially heavier than the 43C I have. Is there something about .22 mag that requires more ignition power than .22 LR? Right now, the 351C is an excellent hand strength training device, but difficult to shoot more than a cylinder at a time.
I have noticed that the trigger pull on my 351C is extremely heavy, and substantially heavier than the 43C I have. Is there something about .22 mag that requires more ignition power than .22 LR? Right now, the 351C is an excellent hand strength training device, but difficult to shoot more than a cylinder at a time.
It is harder to detonate the primer on a rimfire cartridge so that is why it has a heavier pull.
C4
Grant, any idea why the trigger pull feels about five pounds heavier on my 351C (.22 mag) than on the 43C (.22LR)?
Not sure whether my 351C is an anomaly. Any sense for how heavy the triggers are on your various 351C's and whether they vary much by individual revolver?
I've got to try one of the PPS's. They really seem to be getting more attention.
I really dig mine. So far it has been very reliable and handles very much like a single stack G19 with a slightly heavier trigger. I replaced my J-frame with it for daily carry because the better I was getting with my G19 (several formal courses and lots more personal practice over the last 4 years or so) the less well armed I felt with the J-frame due to it being much more difficult for me to shoot well. Add the fact that it's magazine fed and holds more rounds and it's just gravy.
The only thing that is less than ideal is the paddle style mag release. I would prefer just a standard button release, but not a deal breaker.
I have the PPS LE (NS's and three mags) version in stock (two left).
I can't find any local walther night sights. Do you do installations?
Smart man.
C4
Friends don't let friends CCW .380 :cool:
billybob19606
01-23-12, 11:25
I had a 642 for years, just now bought a G26. However, there are smaller options for a 9mm. Ruger's LC9. My brother has one, and although it pops pretty good when firing, it IS slimmer and lighter than my subcompact Glock.
Don't get much smaller than this (yet ya still can get 'em in huge calibers!)
http://bondarms.com/bond-arms-guns
I really dig mine. So far it has been very reliable and handles very much like a single stack G19 with a slightly heavier trigger. I replaced my J-frame with it for daily carry because the better I was getting with my G19 (several formal courses and lots more personal practice over the last 4 years or so) the less well armed I felt with the J-frame due to it being much more difficult for me to shoot well. Add the fact that it's magazine fed and holds more rounds and it's just gravy.
The only thing that is less than ideal is the paddle style mag release. I would prefer just a standard button release, but not a deal breaker.
I can't find any local walther night sights. Do you do installations?
We do, but are just to busy at the moment to take on any new work (sorry).
The NS are also in stock if you want a set.
C4
Suwannee Tim
01-24-12, 05:34
Smart man.
C4
What? Packing a 380 I knew was probably a single shot? Or selling out and moving to a nicer neighborhood?
Funny thing about the guy I sold my old house to. A Cambodian, a little feller, not much more than about 4 feet tall but this guy looked dangerous. I think this guy has seen more death and suffering that all us put together. He was heavily tattooed, not with American style artsy fartsy tattoos but with home-brew tats. I don't know but I think that means he is badder than your average Khmer Rouge. His brother bought the house next door. No one in the neighborhood screws with them. Wonder why? Brother-next-door and cousin showed up at the range a couple of months ago. They know how to shoot and handle weapons.
I work in a small department in Utah, long story short I responded to a shooting 3 weeks ago where a dirt stick was shot with a .380 three times from contact to 4 feet as he was pushed away by victim defending himself. First round entered above the left nipple, shattered the third rib, fragmented and grazed the heart caused a pretty sizable hemopneumo. Second round went through the guys wallet in his left breast pocket and lodged behind the scapula mushroomed to .43 mm. Third round entered right side deflected off 5th rib, pierced diaphragm, and bowel and lodged in pelvic area. Ammo was Speer gold dot.
While I'm a firm advocate for grains, I carry .40's on and off duty but I'll occasionally slip the LCP into shorts for a quick run around town. From contact distances the .380 will do its part no question, I'll admit the guy wasnt DRT but he had the fight taken out of him for sure.
Suwannee Tim
01-24-12, 17:13
.....I'll occasionally slip the LCP into shorts for a quick run around town......
I'd like to know if the LCP works dry. I carry in my pocket and the fabric wicks the lube away and makes the gun dry or the lube picks up lint and clogs everything up. My LCR will work dry and I blow the lint out every couple of months.
I work in a small department in Utah, long story short I responded to a shooting 3 weeks ago where a dirt stick was shot with a .380 three times from contact to 4 feet as he was pushed away by victim defending himself. First round entered above the left nipple, shattered the third rib, fragmented and grazed the heart caused a pretty sizable hemopneumo. Second round went through the guys wallet in his left breast pocket and lodged behind the scapula mushroomed to .43 mm. Third round entered right side deflected off 5th rib, pierced diaphragm, and bowel and lodged in pelvic area. Ammo was Speer gold dot.
While I'm a firm advocate for grains, I carry .40's on and off duty but I'll occasionally slip the LCP into shorts for a quick run around town. From contact distances the .380 will do its part no question, I'll admit the guy wasnt DRT but he had the fight taken out of him for sure.
The Speer GD's are excellent bullets, but at the end of the day, the round struggles.
C4
The Speer GD's are excellent bullets, but at the end of the day, the round struggles.
C4
No question, I won't argue that. I carry 40 and 45 90% of the time. I jog a lot and the LCP fits the bill of a light weight solution that I can do 20-25 miles and not have it bug me. I carry it with me on a road bike as well. I consider the .380 to be an step above a knife but I don't rely on it in bad parts of town or as BUG for duty use. It's a round that lacks power for sure. But to add to the OP I believe .40 is for EDC and that's from seeing several dozen GSW's. I have needed three guns to ensure I carry day in and day out. With a 5" TRP operator, g23 and LCP I carry 24/7, it's not feasible for me to carry a larger gun on a 20 mile run and so I compromise on the caliber to carry something.
Alaskapopo
01-24-12, 23:59
For me the smallest is a J Frame in 38 special with +P ammo. I don't trust .380's and below in autos and I don't trust a .22 mag revolver. But I will admit that a .22 mag revolver or a .380 pistol beats a sharp stick in the eye. To each his own.
Pat
I'd like to know if the LCP works dry. I carry in my pocket and the fabric wicks the lube away and makes the gun dry or the lube picks up lint and clogs everything up. My LCR will work dry and I blow the lint out every couple of months.
Ya, it works. I train twice a month with my team and on one of those ill slip it into my pocket and fire off a mag rapid during a transition to get a feel of the snap. It's a snappy little gun and it's tricky to go from a 5 lb to a 12 or whatever pound it is and have any sort of accuracy past 15 yards.
I don't run it's complety dry but I use the machine gunners lube and wipe it 90% off so I don't get the lint problem as much. I keep a rag damped with lube in a plastic bag in my junk drawer in the kitchen and it takes literally two minutes to disassemble wipe that junk off and roll, I do that about every month.
To reiterate what is being said here though, the .380 is not the best choice for EDC. I've tried to patch up people with all calipers and while any gunshot can kill that "knock down" power is not there with the 380. The Vic in my above post would have died for sure but he was still talking and able to move thus able to fight if he had a weapon, and he was shot at social distances. A true warrior would easily have fought on.
For ME my LCP fits a small nitch when G23 or 1911 will not, but for work it's the G22 and G23 as a BUG.
Handled a PPS today and also impressed, especially with what Ive heard about its reliability. Will probably pick one up soon. Looking for a slim BUG for my gal to wear inside the thigh when she wears dresses/skirts. Ill probably make up a thin Kydex holster for her and post some pics up on the How to Make a Kydex Holster thread if anyone's interested..
Eurodriver
01-31-12, 07:57
I work in a small department in Utah, long story short I responded to a shooting 3 weeks ago where a dirt stick was shot with a .380 three times from contact to 4 feet as he was pushed away by victim defending himself. First round entered above the left nipple, shattered the third rib, fragmented and grazed the heart caused a pretty sizable hemopneumo. Second round went through the guys wallet in his left breast pocket and lodged behind the scapula mushroomed to .43 mm. Third round entered right side deflected off 5th rib, pierced diaphragm, and bowel and lodged in pelvic area. Ammo was Speer gold dot.
While I'm a firm advocate for grains, I carry .40's on and off duty but I'll occasionally slip the LCP into shorts for a quick run around town. From contact distances the .380 will do its part no question, I'll admit the guy wasnt DRT but he had the fight taken out of him for sure.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article1184869.ece
Similar situation...but he didn't die. I don't know what ammo the guy was using and I don't even know if his shot placement was garbage but you'd think after being hit FOUR times he'd go down. He didn't.
TacCommE21
01-31-12, 19:13
+1 on the LCR w/ Speer Gold Dot 135 gr. +P Short Barrel.
I like my 342ti in my front pocket an my PM9 setup for cross draw!
while it may not be my smallest carry gun, but the most shootable and useful i have is the 3" Pro Series 60 .357. easily concealed and doubles as a great trail gun.
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/7424/003mvu.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/688/003mvu.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Suwannee Tim
02-03-12, 20:24
http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr228/allentimfrank/IMG_2418.jpg
http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr228/allentimfrank/IMG_2419.jpg
http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr228/allentimfrank/IMG_2420.jpg
http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr228/allentimfrank/IMG_2421.jpg
High Standard 22 Magnum or 22 LR Derringer. I had one of these when I was a youngster. I lost it when I went for an unplanned swim on a canoe trip, my pants got tangled in a strainer and I had to shed them to keep from drowning. A couple of years ago I bought these ugly ducklings and several others including a couple of 22 Long Rifle versions, all from California. I'm guessing here, these guns have been banned in Cali and cannot be sold in state. So when the owner wants rid of them or dies they are sold on Auction Arms or Gun Broker by the estate. These, I bid some small amount of money for, no one bid against me and I won both. I got them out of my dealers shop for less than $100 for the pair. Really. I ought to at least put on new duct tape. One day I'll clean them up. They do work though. And they conceal very well. I know 22 magnum ain't much but no one wants to get shot, not even with a 22 magnum.
Reminds me of something funny happened long ago. I was in my uncle's bar and left. As I approached my van I noticed someone lurking. He was siphoning gas. I snuck right up behind him, pulled the 'ole 22 magnum and let one rip into the ground. 22 magnum is LOUD out of a short barrel. Poor guy jumped about six feet. I skeered him so bad I felt bad. He gave me some sob story and I gave him a couple of bucks then took him in the bar and bought him a beer to settle his shattered nerves.:D
Alaskapopo
02-04-12, 04:36
http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr228/allentimfrank/IMG_2418.jpg
http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr228/allentimfrank/IMG_2419.jpg
http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr228/allentimfrank/IMG_2420.jpg
http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr228/allentimfrank/IMG_2421.jpg
High Standard 22 Magnum or 22 LR Derringer. I had one of these when I was a youngster. I lost it when I went for an unplanned swim on a canoe trip, my pants got tangled in a strainer and I had to shed them to keep from drowning. A couple of years ago I bought these ugly ducklings and several others including a couple of 22 Long Rifle versions, all from California. I'm guessing here, these guns have been banned in Cali and cannot be sold in state. So when the owner wants rid of them or dies they are sold on Auction Arms or Gun Broker by the estate. These, I bid some small amount of money for, no one bid against me and I won both. I got them out of my dealers shop for less than $100 for the pair. Really. I ought to at least put on new duct tape. One day I'll clean them up. They do work though. And they conceal very well. I know 22 magnum ain't much but no one wants to get shot, not even with a 22 magnum.
Reminds me of something funny happened long ago. I was in my uncle's bar and left. As I approached my van I noticed someone lurking. He was siphoning gas. I snuck right up behind him, pulled the 'ole 22 magnum and let one rip into the ground. 22 magnum is LOUD out of a short barrel. Poor guy jumped about six feet. I skeered him so bad I felt bad. He gave me some sob story and I gave him a couple of bucks then took him in the bar and bought him a beer to settle his shattered nerves.:D
Small for sure but only 2 shots of a fairly weak caliber. I could not bring myself to carry it.
Pat
Suwannee Tim
02-04-12, 07:49
.....I could not bring myself to carry it.
Pat
So what do you carry in the summer when you are on the beach and wearing nothing but your board-shorts? Maybe you don't have a pair of board-shorts. Maybe you don't even know what they are. I can tell you this, board-shorts won't conceal your Glock.
Years ago my first HS Derringer saved me from a likely ass whoopin at least at the hands of six folks who followed me into a public bathroom. At the time CCW was illegal for anyone without connections of which I had none. When you are packing illegally you want to be very discreet and the HS is discreet. Now that I'm legal I carry my 38 and often carry one or both of these ugly ducklings as backup. I rarely carry a HS alone and I do so with a dearth of confidence. I carry them with solid bullets which I know for a fact can penetrate a sternum, at least a deer sternum which is thicker than a human sternum. It ain't much but it's better than nothing and, like I said, no one wants to get shot, not even with a 22 magnum. Not even six guys, none of whom will volunteer to be the first or second to get shot.
HOWEVER:
A somewhat more powerful two-shooter (http://heizerfirearms.com/)
I e-mailed Heizer and was told they plan a 40 caliber barrel. I urged them to consider a 22 barrel for practice.
I still have the High Standard .22 Mag derringer I carried as a backup 30 years ago. With the long trigger pull, and the fact that it keyholed at 7 yards, it was pretty much a contact shot weapon, but it was the only "tiny gun" we were authorized to carry. I actually had to point it at a crook when I stupidly was carrying it off duty one time, and walked into something. Glad I didn't actually have to use it. I'd be deaf, and the crook probably wouldn't have been that impressed.
Alaskapopo
02-04-12, 23:31
So what do you carry in the summer when you are on the beach and wearing nothing but your board-shorts? Maybe you don't have a pair of board-shorts. Maybe you don't even know what they are. I can tell you this, board-shorts won't conceal your Glock.
Years ago my first HS Derringer saved me from a likely ass whoopin at least at the hands of six folks who followed me into a public bathroom. At the time CCW was illegal for anyone without connections of which I had none. When you are packing illegally you want to be very discreet and the HS is discreet. Now that I'm legal I carry my 38 and often carry one or both of these ugly ducklings as backup. I rarely carry a HS alone and I do so with a dearth of confidence. I carry them with solid bullets which I know for a fact can penetrate a sternum, at least a deer sternum which is thicker than a human sternum. It ain't much but it's better than nothing and, like I said, no one wants to get shot, not even with a 22 magnum. Not even six guys, none of whom will volunteer to be the first or second to get shot.
HOWEVER:
A somewhat more powerful two-shooter (http://heizerfirearms.com/)
I e-mailed Heizer and was told they plan a 40 caliber barrel. I urged them to consider a 22 barrel for practice.
My deep carry gun is a J frame smith. I can throw it in my shorts pockets. I carried a Jframe in Florida when on a training when it was 92 degrees and 92 percent humidity. I was wearing shorts after the training with a T shirt. I also worked in the drug task force for 3 years and I used a J frame the few times I actually did the undercover work and had no issues. I was usually the control officer and then I carried a full size 1911 concealed. You should be able to conceal a J frame or at the very least one of the small .380 autos. (which I don't like) I see no reason to go with a small 2 shot .22 derrigner. That being said 99% of the time I am carrying my Glock 26 off duty. The other 1% its a 340 Smith. In the past it was a full size 1911. I just don't see the problem some people have in concealing reasonably powerful handguns. I mean come on a J frame is tiny.
Pat
Suwannee Tim
02-05-12, 05:15
....My deep carry gun is a J frame smith. I can throw it in my shorts pockets.....Pat
I carried the J for decades until I got my LCR. Seriously, I agree that any 22 even the magnum is marginal at best.
I am looking forward to getting a Heizer.
I still have the High Standard .22 Mag derringer I carried as a backup 30 years ago. With the long trigger pull, and the fact that it keyholed at 7 yards, it was pretty much a contact shot weapon, but it was the only "tiny gun" we were authorized to carry. I actually had to point it at a crook when I stupidly was carrying it off duty one time, and walked into something. Glad I didn't actually have to use it. I'd be deaf, and the crook probably wouldn't have been that impressed.
Three yards. They are good for three yards. They don't all keyhole, some do, most don't. I have a 22 LR that is very accurate. Relatively speaking. I can hit a 28 inch square cardboard target back at 50 yards as many times as I want. They are the only "tiny gun" that is a realistic weapon.
i have a NAA mini mag that i drop in my pocket as a BUG but i sure as hell aint hitting a 28" square at 50 yds with it,
and i dont put much faith in the bullets performance from a 1 5/8" bbl either. dont fool yourself, the key word here is "usefull"....not discreet.
GrandPooba
02-05-12, 12:20
j-frame w/ 135gr 38spl+P Gold Dot SB
I don't carry anything smaller. I have yet to run into a situation where I could not hide a j-frame either IWB or pocket carry.
Don't forget grips. Stock S&W grips are actually not that bad. I would never recommend any type of wood grips - they look nice, come with a high price, and transfer every oz. of energy to your hand. My 642 no lock and 342 pre-lock wear Hogue bantams (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=842242), (midwayusa.com/). I can shoot SGD 135 gr +P all day.
What I like about j-frames is i can get a full 4 finger grip.
And speaking of j-rame grip technique, a semi-auto grip won't work for me so I use this specific grip:
PRO TIPS with JERRY MICULEK (http://www.shootingusa.com/PRO_TIPS/MICULEK2/miculek2.html), 6th panel down.
Three yards. They are good for three yards. They don't all keyhole, some do, most don't. I have a 22 LR that is very accurate. Relatively speaking. I can hit a 28 inch square cardboard target back at 50 yards as many times as I want.
Not doubting you, but I'd pay an admission charge to see that.
motorolahamm
02-06-12, 08:57
Same here a S&W 642 38.sp +p aluminum frame no hammer exposed. = snag free draw
I recently bought an NAA .22 WMR for this very reason. First I want to say I am a proponent of 'real' calibers, and always have been. My primary carry, when I have a belt and light jacket on, is my Colt Officers .45 with Fed. Hydroshok. I also bought my wife a Ruger SP101 .357 5 shot compact revolver, which I reluctantly admit I might even prefer to carry over my prized officers .45. It is small, deadly, and I love the fool proof reliability of a wheel gun. However, I understand this question fully.
I do not live in downtown Detroit, or drug-den Mexico. I live in backwoods New Hampshire, where the only real threat is a possible raccoon with rabies, or local town drunk out in my woods (who is anything but dangerous). However, I often take a walk out back in the woods and seriously do not want to belt up and deal with my .45 every time. Especially in the summer.
I am super impressed with the quality of the NAA mini revolver. I would take it over any small Semi auto any day. It is safe, with the notched cylinder, it is five shots of 'cock and pull', I can hit a coffee can at 7 paces quite steadily, and in lieu of having nothing at all it is a very 'large' caliber.
I found a ballistics chart for different ammo for it as well. Out of the 1 1/8th barrel, using Win. 40 gr hollow point, the velocity at 8 feet from the muzzle is 960 fps. (You can get higher with lighter weights, but I am a little too old-school for that. 40 grns is light enough)
It's no .45, but it is SO easy to carry. Throw in a pocket, in a boot, or even carry in your hand while jogging. I have a neck chain holster for it, and with a light shirt on it is like a key around your neck. A key with 5 reliable shots of 22 magnum.
I do not regret this descision at all. For what you are asking, this is the most practical firearm I own.
Alaskapopo
02-09-12, 05:30
I recently bought an NAA .22 WMR for this very reason. First I want to say I am a proponent of 'real' calibers, and always have been. My primary carry, when I have a belt and light jacket on, is my Colt Officers .45 with Fed. Hydroshok. I also bought my wife a Ruger SP101 .357 5 shot compact revolver, which I reluctantly admit I might even prefer to carry over my prized officers .45. It is small, deadly, and I love the fool proof reliability of a wheel gun. However, I understand this question fully.
I do not live in downtown Detroit, or drug-den Mexico. I live in backwoods New Hampshire, where the only real threat is a possible raccoon with rabies, or local town drunk out in my woods (who is anything but dangerous). However, I often take a walk out back in the woods and seriously do not want to belt up and deal with my .45 every time. Especially in the summer.
I am super impressed with the quality of the NAA mini revolver. I would take it over any small Semi auto any day. It is safe, with the notched cylinder, it is five shots of 'cock and pull', I can hit a coffee can at 7 paces quite steadily, and in lieu of having nothing at all it is a very 'large' caliber.
I found a ballistics chart for different ammo for it as well. Out of the 1 1/8th barrel, using Win. 40 gr hollow point, the velocity at 8 feet from the muzzle is 960 fps. (You can get higher with lighter weights, but I am a little too old-school for that. 40 grns is light enough)
It's no .45, but it is SO easy to carry. Throw in a pocket, in a boot, or even carry in your hand while jogging. I have a neck chain holster for it, and with a light shirt on it is like a key around your neck. A key with 5 reliable shots of 22 magnum.
I do not regret this descision at all. For what you are asking, this is the most practical firearm I own.
Here is my take. I agree a .22 mag is better than no gun at all and a .45 at home is not good when you need it on the street. However there is a lot of good choices sized smaller than the .45 you mention and the .22 mag you bought. Try a J Frame Smith or if you must go smaller a Ruger LCP. That mini revolver being single action is also going to be very slow to fire if you needed it. With a .22 mag the chances of needing multiple follow up shots is very high. Then reloading that thing if the first 5 did not work is not going to happen. Simply having a firearm with you may make you feel protected but in the case of that gun its very little protection. Have you envisioned how you would use this gun if you were attacked, especially the way you said you carried it, (various different locations such as your boot, pocket etc) I can't see how you would be able to get it into the fight quickly enough and even if you did I can't see you being able to shoot it fast enough nor accurately enough to end the fight.
Pat
Beat Trash
02-09-12, 10:44
To add to the line of thought that Alaskapopo just posted I want to mention the effect of stress and adrenaline.
Slowly shooting a can from 7 yds and hitting it is not the same as using a ccw/defensive gun to defend yourself. Not only will time be a huge issue, but stress and adrenaline in your system will make things more difficult.
I would offer this mental exercise. Picture yourself walking somewhere armed with the ccw of your choice. Without warning, a pit bull comes running from behind a car 20 yds away. He thinks you'd make a nice lunch. You have about as much time as it takes you to say, "Oh Sh*t". Try to imagine how your body would react during this "flight or fight" response. Heart beat elevated, response time required to access the threat and decide the appropriate response. Remember this is not your local shooting match, where you know starting out that you will be shooting your gun. You're just out for a walk, thinking about whatever was on your mind. You get the point...
Those LEO's working the more interesting beats can appreciate this. Every time I am forced to put an armed suspect at gunpoint, my full sized M&P feels like a very small gun in my hands.
Life is about balance. I feel the same applies to ccw guns. While the NAA mini revolvers are neat little guns, I feel like I might drop them under normal circumstances. Having to draw/grab and fire under stress, and put rounds on target? I'd rather find a way to carry something a bit bigger.
To me, a J-Frame such as the 642 or a Kahr PM9 is about as small as I personally want to go. And it's rare I go that small as a primary gun.
RogerinTPA
02-09-12, 11:58
For those using the ruger LCP, how durable is it? Will it take a few hundred rounds without breaking, during regular practice? Anyone put over 1K rounds through without issues?
For those using the ruger LCP, how durable is it? Will it take a few hundred rounds without breaking, during regular practice? Anyone put over 1K rounds through without issues?
The LCP is durable enough for the occasional shooting and regular carrying they get. A group of us passed one around through about 300-400 rounds of ammo without a stoppage. A couple of LCP pool guns are over 1000 without any issues. (I have a Keltec P3AT that's now over 2k.)
I'd still like to do an accelerated wear test of an LCP, shooting it to destruction, in a single range session.
saddlerocker
02-09-12, 20:56
In my search for something really small in at least 9mm I have arrived at the Kahr PM9 or CM9 and the Ruger LC9
I find im just not comfortable carrying anything as larges as a M&P compact for example, or even the sub compact glock, due to the width.
The Kahr is very thin and small. I have had the opportunity to shoot one a few times at the range and was pretty impressed.
The LC9 seems to be about the same size, but I havnt had the chance to hold or shoot one yet. But I dont think I like all the Safeties on the Ruger, and the trigger breaks further back on the Ruger than the Kahr
RogerinTPA
02-09-12, 21:15
The LCP is durable enough for the occasional shooting and regular carrying they get. A group of us passed one around through about 300-400 rounds of ammo without a stoppage. A couple of LCP pool guns are over 1000 without any issues. (I have a Keltec P3AT that's now over 2k.)
I'd still like to do an accelerated wear test of an LCP, shooting it to destruction, in a single range session.
I was looking for a durable & small pocket pistol for my girl, who is very petite, but want her to practice with on a regular basis. I hope the recoil suits her, if not, I guess it will be my bug gun. Great info and thanks.
I was looking for a durable & small pocket pistol for my girl, who is very petite, but want her to practice with on a regular basis. I hope the recoil suits her, if not, I guess it will be my bug gun. Great info and thanks.
New to the site but not to LCP's. My wife has tried mine (she is somewhat petite and has small hands) and really doesn't like it at all; once she gets past the long trigger pull she still has to contend with the snappy recoil, she much prefers a G26. The LCP itself has functioned ok, the only SD ammo that I have tried that it choked on were Gold Dots; but with .380 I typically only use FMJ anyway.
Advice is worth what you paid. :p
RogerinTPA
02-11-12, 06:51
New to the site but not to LCP's. My wife has tried mine (she is somewhat petite and has small hands) and really doesn't like it at all; once she gets past the long trigger pull she still has to contend with the snappy recoil, she much prefers a G26. The LCP itself has functioned ok, the only SD ammo that I have tried that it choked on were Gold Dots; but with .380 I typically only use FMJ anyway.
Advice is worth what you paid. :p
My girl also has small hands. I tried the G26 route with her. She shoots it fine, but feels it's too big for concealed carry, except for one of those gun purses, which she rarely carries. She wears a lot of dresses and wants to go with an ankle or thigh holster, especially in central FL.
For those using the ruger LCP, how durable is it? Will it take a few hundred rounds without breaking, during regular practice? Anyone put over 1K rounds through without issues?
i bought one awhile back, and im near 900rds thru that gun with no issues. its seen mostly ball ammo with a some CorBon and Hornady CD ammo thrown in for good measure. the one i was expecting the issues with was the CorBon with its cavernous hollow point, but the LCP ran like a champ. my girl "adopted" my first LCP and she shoots it quite well for its size and next to no sights.
*add...i probably should have mentioned the 2nd LCP i bought to replace the one my girlfriend claimed has 300+ thru it trouble free.
[QUOTE=Suwannee Tim;1218890]"So what do you carry in the summer when you are on the beach and wearing nothing but your board-shorts? Maybe you don't have a pair of board-shorts. Maybe you don't even know what they are. I can tell you this, board-shorts won't conceal your Glock.
Years ago my first HS Derringer saved me from a likely ass whoopin at least at the hands of six folks who followed me into a public bathroom. At the time CCW was illegal for anyone without connections of which I had none. When you are packing illegally you want to be very discreet and the HS is discreet. Now that I'm legal I carry my 38 and often carry one or both of these ugly ducklings as backup. I rarely carry a HS alone and I do so with a dearth of confidence. I carry them with solid bullets which I know for a fact can penetrate a sternum, at least a deer sternum which is thicker than a human sternum. It ain't much but it's better than nothing and, like I said, no one wants to get shot, not even with a 22 magnum. Not even six guys, none of whom will volunteer to be the first or second to get shot."
My point exactly. not every situation is a gang bang or an imminent terrorist attack. When you are in a safe situation like out in our countryside or at a public beach or BBQ, a full blown combat pistol under fatigues is not exactly practical anywhere except possibly in survivalist camps.
Having a 22 mag in your boot, pocket, or around your neck, completely hidden and practical, is worth it. Anyone who does not think so should volunteer to be shot in the foot to see how much it stings.
I am fully aware of the combat argument. I also fully agree if I am in crack-house territory. However, for many that situation does not and never will exist. For some this is a great alternative.
My brother who lives in murder-capitol South Africa has one and it saved his life once already. Two armed intruders backed out and left when he presented it immediately before they had a chance to pull theirs. They had a shoot out down the road at someone else's house shortly thereafter. They saw the size of the NAA mini, and yet still preferred not to argue. They even had bigger guns. Much bigger.
I was just trying to answer the original post. Yes, a mini gun is handy, yes it can mean the difference between life or death. it is better than a sharp stick.
When a 40 cal is warranted, wear it. When not, this is a great and easy alternative.
My usual is a Glock 30. However, when that is too bulky, I have an AMT backup .45 - much slimmer and only a bit larger than a derringer.
Suwannee Tim
02-13-12, 16:29
Not doubting you, but I'd pay an admission charge to see that.
Alright, alright, maybe not 50 yards. 47 yards to be precise. Works out to about 60 m.o.a. :D Off a bench rest with my most accurate HS Derringer. Not one of the Derringers that keyhole with one or both barrels. Eley Tenex Ultimate Red Pistol ammo. I'm kidding. Plain old Federal ammo. :D
My brother had one of those little bitty Freedom Arms 22 revolvers. We went shooting and he handed it to me. I aimed at a Coke can at about 25 yards, hit it with the first shot. Handed the gun back to him. He got mad because he insisted it was luck but I refused to prove it for him. :D
My brother had one of those little bitty Freedom Arms 22 revolvers. We went shooting and he handed it to me. I aimed at a Coke can at about 25 yards, hit it with the first shot. Handed the gun back to him. He got mad because he insisted it was luck but I refused to prove it for him. :D
ive owned a NAA mini-mag for many years now, and while its a quality made gun, and serves its limited purpose well, i wanna see you pull that one off. not doubting you, but im lucky to hit the pop can at 7 yards 3 out of 5 times LOL
Alright, alright, maybe not 50 yards. 47 yards to be precise. Works out to about 60 m.o.a. :D Off a bench rest with my most accurate HS Derringer. Not one of the Derringers that keyhole with one or both barrels. Eley Tenex Ultimate Red Pistol ammo. I'm kidding. Plain old Federal ammo. :D
My brother had one of those little bitty Freedom Arms 22 revolvers. We went shooting and he handed it to me. I aimed at a Coke can at about 25 yards, hit it with the first shot. Handed the gun back to him. He got mad because he insisted it was luck but I refused to prove it for him. :D
Clearly, you are used to working with a tiny piece.....
;)
For shorts, I love my LCP (9.4oz). I have run about 70 rds, no issues. You don't even know its in your pocket. Normal Carry is a Sig P238. Since Florida is shorts year round, light is good. My next wheel gun will be the S&W 360PD only 12oz.
fltargetmaster
03-01-12, 23:44
Small and concealable piece that has lethality in the round....the Makarov 9x18. I recommend the East German variety. Ammo is varied but there are rounds that approa ch 1000FPS with a 95 grain load. Flat and relatively easy to conceal...but not so good for surfing or boogie boarding
Alaskapopo
03-02-12, 00:19
Small and concealable piece that has lethality in the round....the Makarov 9x18. I recommend the East German variety. Ammo is varied but there are rounds that approa ch 1000FPS with a 95 grain load. Flat and relatively easy to conceal...but not so good for surfing or boogie boarding
The problem is that the 9x18 guns are not much smaller than full power 9x19 pistols. The ammo selection sucks when it comes to good protection ammo. The guns themselves have shitty triggers and crap sights. Not a good defensive weapon.
Pat
The problem is that the 9x18 guns are not much smaller than full power 9x19 pistols. The ammo selection sucks when it comes to good protection ammo. The guns themselves have shitty triggers and crap sights. Not a good defensive weapon.
Pat
A lousy defensive weapon.
For shorts, I love my LCP (9.4oz). I have run about 70 rds, no issues. You don't even know its in your pocket. Normal Carry is a Sig P238. Since Florida is shorts year round, light is good. My next wheel gun will be the S&W 360PD only 12oz.
If you pocket carry much of the time, look into one of the concealed hammer, or shrouded hammer versions of the J frame, 340, 440, 640, etc., series.
Eurodriver
03-09-12, 09:27
Guys. I went to the club last night with my 642 in my front pocket. I was alllll over the ladies. Some of them brushed their hand against it but they probably thought it was a wallet.
At least one was very impressed....apparently she thought I was happy to see her ;)
Very happy after last night. Won't work for board shorts but its definitely suiting my needs.
I've been thinking about getting a pocket carry gun. Has anyone had any experience with one of the Federal 327 revolvers that hold 6 rounds in the cylinder?
I don't like the LCP because it's a handful. However I saw one of those wallets that allow carrying and shooting from within the wallet holster. Theoretically, sounds good. One step is eliminated. I don't know the practicality.
I pocket carry a P238. Very easy to carry. Easy to shoot. Minimal recoil. Accurate to 15 yards so far. I didn't try 25 yards but I usually hit to 25 yards with all of the other guns I have without an issue.
Lifetime NRA Member
I've been thinking about getting a pocket carry gun. Has anyone had any experience with one of the Federal 327 revolvers that hold 6 rounds in the cylinder?
It's an interesting cartridge, in that it does easily make minimum penetration while still expanding fairly decently. One more round is either worth not much or everything.
I'd mainly be worried about ammo availability, or it going the way of "9mm Federal", etc.
bsmith_shoot
03-18-12, 22:38
My daily carry gun is a 638-3, loaded with Buffalo Bore 158gr +p soft lead wad cutter hollow points. Its really easy to conceal, and with the BB ammo, its a very capable defensive round.
Brandon
DoubleD396
03-18-12, 22:41
Check out the Ruger LC-9.
I don't like the LCP because it's a handful. However I saw one of those wallets that allow carrying and shooting from within the wallet holster. Theoretically, sounds good. One step is eliminated. I don't know the practicality.
I pocket carry a P238. Very easy to carry. Easy to shoot. Minimal recoil. Accurate to 15 yards so far. I didn't try 25 yards but I usually hit to 25 yards with all of the other guns I have without an issue.
Lifetime NRA Member
Careful on those wallets from which one can shoot. If the weapon is completely enclosed/concealed other than the trigger hole you may be venturing into NFA territory (AOW). Supposedly, if the top is exposed it may not fall into that category (hearsay, as I have n o direct knowledge, nor have I seen a BATF approval letter).
The slide is exposed. I don't have one. I have thought about it.
Lifetime NRA Member
Bobert0989
03-29-12, 14:57
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=NAA+.17&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1600&bih=803&tbm=isch&tbnid=tO2mZuEYIe_TfM:&imgrefurl=http://www.rc-trucks.org/tiny-revolvers.htm&docid=yspUEPQ6eD0T3M&imgurl=http://www.rc-trucks.org/Tiny-Revolvers.jpg&w=640&h=480&ei=OL50T8Jww_fSAcCr0f8C&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=949&vpy=341&dur=7727&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=144&ty=112&sig=113778031821315046140&page=2&tbnh=137&tbnw=178&start=28&ndsp=35&ved=1t:429,r:32,s:28
Dad always has this little gun with him... lol. You said you didn't care about being outgunned or whatever, this will usually get you two steps to the door! ;)
He has them in both .17HMR and .22Mag
LCP, for when I absolutely CAN'T hide anything else, but one of my Sig 238's hides almost as well and is a FAR better shooter. My 642 is another real favorite for light weight concealment. I can shoot the 238's better than either.
Skip
KiloSierra
04-03-12, 21:32
Whichever one I got on me that gets me off the bottom of the pile and prevents me from having an appointment with the coroner or trauma surgeon. If it's a NAA Mini revolver or a full size custom 1911 doesn't matter as long as I don't have either of those appointments.
That being said, the smallest I normally carry is a five shot, .38 snubnose.
I carry a 642 load with 5 +p rounds a lot. I have carried a LCR too. I am not a big fan of the LRC, it's to small for my hand, my grip becomes to fingers. as the pinkie just hangs in the air. I don't shot the LRC as well as I do the S&W. I think of my 642 as my formal dress up carry. I normally carry a 3" j frame or a 1911. I will drop the LRC in my pocket if I am making a quick trip to the store.
sling_king
04-28-12, 14:40
The TCP is a reliable and affordable choice. Best overall value in gun guide for a .380 pistol.
Two is one, one is none
mallowpufft
04-28-12, 15:20
The TCP is a reliable and affordable choice. Best overall value in gun guide for a .380 pistol.
Two is one, one is none
Ick. The extra 50 bucks is best spent on an LCP or same money spent on a P3AT. I've had too many issues with Taurus firearms to trust my life to one.
That said I'll probably ditch the LCP when/if Smith releases a version of the shield w/o a safety. Or I buy a Kahr...
It's best to blame my misspelled words on autocorrect.
sling_king
04-28-12, 15:48
Depends on what you've owned. The older stuff, yeah it has proven to be unreliable. The newer stuff, within the last 10 years, is fine. That includes the TCP. I don't know where you live but the TCP and LCP are the same price and I chose the TCP based on research. The first gen LCP had the potential to go off if dropped and was recalled for a fix. No issues out of the Taurus. I own one in .380 and haven't had a single ftf/fte. I'm speaking out of real world experience. Give one a try. You may change your mind.
Two is one, one is none
Taurus TCP / S & W 642 / Kahr CM9
http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l555/AlabamaBeachboy/100_2110.jpg
I have an M&P 340, but unless it was close contact (10yards or so) I would be afraid to squeeze. I think stats show most situations are inside of 10 yards? But this thread reminds me to go practice with it. Because in comparison, I'm not nearly as good and it's getting HOT
Then I move to XD40 sub-compact from a size stand-point, which IMHO, with that thickness why not carry the admirable G19- so I usually do that.
I am very interested in the M&P single stack 9mm coming out. I don't understand why more companies have not done this to compete with the Kahr single stacks that get so much play with those (1942 eastern Germany like) triggers. I know people love those Kahrs, and they get rave reviews, but I think i would prefer a single stack M&P.
It's girth that has made Kahr millions, God love em for pushing the issue.
Alaskapopo
04-28-12, 22:06
I have a 340 and I feel confident with it out to 25 yards. Just takes a bit more practice due to the shorter sight radius.
Pat
NavyDavy55
04-29-12, 07:02
I like my S&W 442 for concealment. It fits nicely in the front pocket of cargo pants/shorts.
That being said I really want either a Walther CW9 or a Kahr P9.
The Ruger LC9 just has too many safties on it and I don't live in Commiefornia. Plus it's trigger is too long and heavy.
polymorpheous
04-29-12, 07:37
Any reason why I don't see the S&W 438 mentioned here?
What's the consensus on this J-frame?
Beat Trash
04-29-12, 07:50
The 438 is a good revolver. Many prefer the DAO of the 442/642 series. in addition, the Centennial design permits the web of your hand to go a bit higher on the grip. Also the opening for the hammer of the 438 can permit pocket lint to enter. Not that big of a deal, just something to be on the watch for.
But I feel that all of the S&W alloy frame J-frame revolvers are in the same category as far as being used for pocket guns. The 3" -frames are a different matter, of course.
polymorpheous
04-29-12, 08:00
The 438 is a good revolver. Many prefer the DAO of the 442/642 series. in addition, the Centennial design permits the web of your hand to go a bit higher on the grip. Also the opening for the hammer of the 438 can permit pocket lint to enter. Not that big of a deal, just something to be on the watch for.
But I feel that all of the S&W alloy frame J-frame revolvers are in the same category as far as being used for pocket guns. The 3" -frames are a different matter, of course.
This wall makes perfect sense.
Thank you.
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