View Full Version : Can you fingerprint yourself?
If your doing your paperwork for an individual transfer is there any thing against rolling your own fingerprint cards?
I have sort of a peculiar situation.
My local PD's fingerprinting system is all digital (no ink). And the machine that prints out the cards auto fills in the local departments ORI information on the cards. So when they load in the ATF cards with the ATF ORI info that is already pre stamped on them they get printed over and it looks like shit.
And no you cannot change the agency ID and ORI info blocks on the computer as it's locked in. Furthermore there is no NFA option for the reason block in our system. It forces you to pick something else like "employment app" or something else etc etc. that is wrong for this purpose.
Can I just bust out the old ink printing equipment roll my own prints, and neatly hand write in the correct applicable information on the appropriate cards and then sign off on them myself as I am an active/certified LEO in the aforementioned agency?
I went through a whole different process for the prints for my last two transfers but if I can do them myself this way It would be 1000x easier.
NoveskeFan
01-16-12, 20:59
I'm not sure, but it could at least delay the process. I had my LT sign off on my card...and his sig looks like a line with a dot, so, rather than send it in with fingers crossed, I'll be getting someone else to redo my prints.
Maybe try a blank label over the pre-printed info?
xrayoneone
01-16-12, 21:18
Out of that entire agency nobody would do ink? My dept. is digital but I inked a guy last week, no problems.
If it is a thing about the ORI just try cutting a piece of masking tape over that area and remove it after printing.
Local SO is all digital, but it's all printable. Before getting the prints, they enter into the computer whatever identifying info I want on there, including the NFA branch ORI. After getting the prints, they just send it to the laser printer that puts the prints and data on FD-258's that are pre-loaded into the printer tray. If I have pre-printed cards from NFA branch, we leave the ORI slot blank. If I don't, we just enter the NFA branch's ORI number. They'll then print up as many cards as I want.
Out of that entire agency nobody would do ink? My dept. is digital but I inked a guy last week, no problems.
If it is a thing about the ORI just try cutting a piece of masking tape over that area and remove it after printing.
the level BS that goes on around here would astound you (and that's taking into account that BS happens everywhere)
I tried the tape thing before, couldn't get it off lol without peeling off part of the card surface. Ill try some cut post-it notes next time. don't know why I didnt think of that before.
This whole state is messed up. The state police are the only ones who can give you the CLEO sign off and to get that you have to basically go through the entire NFA process "in miniature" with the state. You turn in your print cards and all the forms to the state police firearms licensing division along with an extra processing fee and then you wait several more weeks while they do their own backgrounds which includes sending your prints off to the FBI in the same manner the ATF does. When they are satisfied (last time it took a little over a month) they rubber stamp your CLEO signature and send everything to your SOT/FFL dealer so they can send it to the ATF.
So in the long run you end up with two nice letters from the CJIS/FBI saying you don't have a record.
I printed myself and had the guy I was working with sign it. You can look at it two ways......
Are they your prints?
If the prints are quality and the detail is there, is it going top matter?
Out of that entire agency nobody would do ink? My dept. is digital but I inked a guy last week, no problems.
If it is a thing about the ORI just try cutting a piece of masking tape over that area and remove it after printing.
My advice was going to be to try something similar to this. Maybe some blue painters tape so it will peel off easier. Maybe in your situation it would be easier to do a trust though. Good luck with it.
Just use white out over the wrong info that's on there and use a typewriter to fill in the right info. It's not that big of a deal.
You can use a white adhesive backed label to cover the printing agency's ori and the purpose for being printed. Hand write the correct info in the blocks. Or, as someone else pointed out, white out is acceptable.
Use the printing agency's blue fingerprint cards since you are going to use a label or white out to make corrections anyway.
I would consult with a lawyer because I don't see how the state can conduct a check and then charge for something that is done by the feds for free. It sounds like someone is possibly exercising too much authority.
the level BS that goes on around here would astound you (and that's taking into account that BS happens everywhere)
I tried the tape thing before, couldn't get it off lol without peeling off part of the card surface. Ill try some cut post-it notes next time. don't know why I didnt think of that before.
This whole state is messed up. The state police are the only ones who can give you the CLEO sign off and to get that you have to basically go through the entire NFA process "in miniature" with the state. You turn in your print cards and all the forms to the state police firearms licensing division along with an extra processing fee and then you wait several more weeks while they do their own backgrounds which includes sending your prints off to the FBI in the same manner the ATF does. When they are satisfied (last time it took a little over a month) they rubber stamp your CLEO signature and send everything to your SOT/FFL dealer so they can send it to the ATF.
So in the long run you end up with two nice letters from the CJIS/FBI saying you don't have a record.
I would consult with a lawyer because I don't see how the state can conduct a check and then charge for something that is done by the feds for free. It sounds like someone is possibly exercising too much authority.
My local sheriff charges $10 to sign the forms. He(i.e. somebody in the department) supposedly does a quick background check(which costs a little bit of money), plus he has to pay somebody to do said background check(which costs a little bit of money), then he has to pay his front desk clerks to shuffle said paperwork(which costs a little bit of money). If it was $100 I would bitch about it, but for $10, and the fact that he signs them with no questions asked, I dont complain about it.
re: self-printing...
My fiance went to a "sub station" in the mall to get printed for her CWP because it was SUPPOSED to be electronic at that location. She arrived to find a guy who was a classmate of Moses working the "station" and claiming that the machine was "broken" (I suspect that it was more a case of him not being able to operate any equipment more complicated than a hammer) and did them "the old fashioned way". The state actually rejected her application because the prints were unreadable, and after waiting several months to find out about the rejection she had to start all over.
One of my NFA apps got rejected because the dealer "forgot" to stick the $200 check in the envelope. It took a full three months for the BATFE to discover the missing check, at which point I went to the back of the line and waited another 3 months to get the stamp after he "found" the check and resubmitted it.
I tell these stories because combined they seem very relevant to the topic at hand. First, it is clearly very easy to muck up the fingerprinting and second, if you muck up something in your stamp paperwork you'll wait the full pull to find out about it. With turnarnound times running, or approaching, 6 months I wouldn't submit anything I wasn't 100% on.
I would consult with a lawyer because I don't see how the state can conduct a check and then charge for something that is done by the feds for free. It sounds like someone is possibly exercising too much authority.
Yea yea do the "full check" which includes the FBI CJIS printing before they will do your CLEO sign off. It is $16 per dealer/transfer. Meaning that if you are getting two NFA items from the same dealer it is $16. If you got two items at the same time from two separate dealers it would be $32. The whole thing delays your total paperwork time by a month just to get the sign off.
Im thinking of a trust more and more for future processes.
twodollarbill
01-19-12, 18:11
Just use white out over the wrong info that's on there and use a typewriter to fill in the right info. It's not that big of a deal.
There is a whole generation out there that does not know what a typewriter is.....:dirol:
lol finding one would be a bigger problem then figuring it out how to use it.
There is a whole generation out there that does not know what a typewriter is.....:dirol:
There is a whole generation out there that has never fingerprinted with real ink! :eek:
FWIW, I printed myself on my department's digital machine and had no problems with my form 1. I used our FBI "blue" cards WITH OUR OWN ORI on them. It took about 5 months, but I did get the form back accepted. I am fairly certain a coworker also our cards with no problems.
Is there really a requirement to use the NFA ORI, or did I just get lucky? Has anyone had their form rejected or significantly delayed because of an ORI issue?
There is a whole generation out there that has never fingerprinted with real ink! :eek:
Or how to use open sights.
Dang supper snappers!
I would have to look long and hard to find a typewriter! Our town clerk may have one.
That is insane. Or maybe because I live in a sane state that simply applies the federal standard as the way to do it.
I am curious to know how the law reads in your state in regards to NFA weapons, i.e. Procedures.
Specifically if the law states that a CLEO shall or must conduct a check before signing off on the paperwork of if this is something that they are taking upon themselves to do and then charge you for.
Essentially they are charging you to do something, that is going to be conducted by the feds anyways, albeit free of charge as part of the process.
I wish I had a law degree because I would love to take the process in your state under a microscope and see if there isn't grounds to sue.
Yea yea do the "full check" which includes the FBI CJIS printing before they will do your CLEO sign off. It is $16 per dealer/transfer. Meaning that if you are getting two NFA items from the same dealer it is $16. If you got two items at the same time from two separate dealers it would be $32. The whole thing delays your total paperwork time by a month just to get the sign off.
Im thinking of a trust more and more for future processes.
I fingerprinted myself but I'm a police officer. My depart doesn't use ink any more so, I just bought some and did myself. The directions that print out when I printed my form 1 state it is suggested that a qualified person do them. Well in my mind that means me. I just sent in my forms, so I guess we shall see if its ok or not. Guess I'm another blue canary.
That is insane. Or maybe because I live in a sane state that simply applies the federal standard as the way to do it.
I am curious to know how the law reads in your state in regards to NFA weapons, i.e. Procedures.
Specifically if the law states that a CLEO shall or must conduct a check before signing off on the paperwork of if this is something that they are taking upon themselves to do and then charge you for.
Essentially they are charging you to do something, that is going to be conducted by the feds anyways, albeit free of charge as part of the process.
I wish I had a law degree because I would love to take the process in your state under a microscope and see if there isn't grounds to sue.
You know what I'm not sure but I'm leaning towards no there is not a law saying the state police have to do that stuff in regards to the CLEO sign off.
Its kinda strange here. I'll use Maryland (where I am) and Delaware for two examples.
Delaware: You can purchase whatever handgun you want and I'm 99% sure there is no waiting period.
Maryland: You can only buy a handgun if it is on the approved Maryland State Police list. It's pretty big but def. not all inclusive. And when a new hot shit must have gun comes out we all have to wait for it to get (hopefully) on the list before we can buy it. Luckily it gets updated fairly frequently with all the latest and greatest models that come out from the major manufacturers. Little off shoot companies though, you might have issues with though.
There is a waiting period that translates to roughly two weeks in real life time. And you can only take possession of one handgun a month unless your a collector. Meaning if you buy two guns at once you would have to wait like 2 months before you could physically have both of them home with you. All new guns have to come with a fired shell casing from the factory. If not I think there is some pain in the ass process to send in your gun to the State Police for them to do it and its gonna cost you $$$ and lots of time.
The Maryland State Police have this huge expensive system for a shell casing data base that has been up and running for years now.
So far they have solved a whopping ZERO crimes with it.
Becoming a collector is very easy though, You fill out a form, get it notarized and send it in. Then you can get as much stuff as you want within that month. I did it.
Here is where it gets really dumb.
A big list of specified "Assault rifles" like AR15s, AK47s, FALs etc, are all considered regulated firearms and the same process I mentioned above applies to them.
But the list and law is antiquated now because get this, If I want to buy a new Colt 6920. I have to wait 2 weeks for it like a handgun, but if I buy an FNH SCAR-H, I can walk out the same day with it because it is so new and different from the specified "assault weapons list"... its not on it.
AR15 pistols are considered "assault pistols" and are banned outright. But if you have a registered NFA AR15 SBR its ok. If I had a 7.5" AR15 pistol, made it an NFA AOW and stuck a VFG on it, it would be ok as registered NFA items trump everything else.
All NFA items are legal in Maryland including Machine guns but in Delaware despite all of their more lax gun laws, you cannot have SBS's and suppressors.
If you get a machine gun transferred to you in Maryland you have to by law have it registered with the state police within 24 HOURS or its contraband.... and you have to re register it every year and pay $50 every year. That is a law.
Basically the Maryland State Police Firearms and Licensing Division runs everything gun related...and for most of it the law says they can.
and btw on a side note, unless you carry money for a business don't expect to get a CCW permit here. and No we don't recognize any other states CCW permit. So all you people from DE, VA, and PA. don't do it or its bad news for you if you get caught.
Chances are in this state if someone has a concealed pistol on them most likely they are either a cop or a criminal.:confused:
I suppose we are not as far gone as NY or California or Mass, but we are pretty close in the grand spectrum of things.
But for the most part, you can still get almost anything you want, it just takes a bit more time and $ and pain in the ass to get it.
ak496, yea me too, I was just wondering if Im allowed to take mine and sign off on my own cards. Apparently you can. Good news.
You know what I'm not sure but I'm leaning towards no there is not a law saying the state police have to do that stuff in regards to the CLEO sign off.
Its kinda strange here. I'll use Maryland (where I am) and Delaware for two examples.
Delaware: You can purchase whatever handgun you want and I'm 99% sure there is no waiting period.
Maryland: You can only buy a handgun if it is on the approved Maryland State Police list. It's pretty big but def. not all inclusive. And when a new hot shit must have gun comes out we all have to wait for it to get (hopefully) on the list before we can buy it. Luckily it gets updated fairly frequently with all the latest and greatest models that come out from the major manufacturers. Little off shoot companies though, you might have issues with though.
There is a waiting period that translates to roughly two weeks in real life time. And you can only take possession of one handgun a month unless your a collector. Meaning if you buy two guns at once you would have to wait like 2 months before you could physically have both of them home with you. All new guns have to come with a fired shell casing from the factory. If not I think there is some pain in the ass process to send in your gun to the State Police for them to do it and its gonna cost you $$$ and lots of time.
The Maryland State Police have this huge expensive system for a shell casing data base that has been up and running for years now.
So far they have solved a whopping ZERO crimes with it.
Becoming a collector is very easy though, You fill out a form, get it notarized and send it in. Then you can get as much stuff as you want within that month. I did it.
Here is where it gets really dumb.
A big list of specified "Assault rifles" like AR15s, AK47s, FALs etc, are all considered regulated firearms and the same process I mentioned above applies to them.
But the list and law is antiquated now because get this, If I want to buy a new Colt 6920. I have to wait 2 weeks for it like a handgun, but if I buy an FNH SCAR-H, I can walk out the same day with it because it is so new and different from the specified "assault weapons list"... its not on it.
AR15 pistols are considered "assault pistols" and are banned outright. But if you have a registered NFA AR15 SBR its ok. If I had a 7.5" AR15 pistol, made it an NFA AOW and stuck a VFG on it, it would be ok as registered NFA items trump everything else.
All NFA items are legal in Maryland including Machine guns but in Delaware despite all of their more lax gun laws, you cannot have SBS's and suppressors.
If you get a machine gun transferred to you in Maryland you have to by law have it registered with the state police within 24 HOURS or its contraband.... and you have to re register it every year and pay $50 every year. That is a law.
Basically the Maryland State Police Firearms and Licensing Division runs everything gun related...and for most of it the law says they can.
and btw on a side note, unless you carry money for a business don't expect to get a CCW permit here. and No we don't recognize any other states CCW permit. So all you people from DE, VA, and PA. don't do it or its bad news for you if you get caught.
Chances are in this state if someone has a concealed pistol on them most likely they are either a cop or a criminal.:confused:
I suppose we are not as far gone as NY or California or Mass, but we are pretty close in the grand spectrum of things.
But for the most part, you can still get almost anything you want, it just takes a bit more time and $ and pain in the ass to get it.
ak496, yea me too, I was just wondering if Im allowed to take mine and sign off on my own cards. Apparently you can. Good news.
Good info on MD here. However, the machine gun fee is only $10/yr. My dept also charges for fingerprints, but we don't do a background; just hand over the cards. My chief won't do a CLEO sign off; he just sends everyone to the state. My answer is to use a Trust. Our handgun rules are ridiculous and I think the shell casing project isn't done anymore as they didn't have the manpower to make it work like it should. The waiting period is ineffective as they don't approve anyone anymore since they don't have the manpower there either; they stamp everything "NOT DISAPPROVED" and when they finally get around to the check and you're not allowed to have a gun, they call you up and tell you to bring it back. Really. If not, expect a visit shortly. In short, I blame the politicians for enacting new laws without any regard for how they will be carried out with no funding for them. I'm just glad he NFA rules are good here.
CarlosDJackal
01-25-12, 14:08
Can you just use the fingerprint card that they print out instead? I don't think the ATF's ORI has to be on the cards (but I may be wrong).
Can you just use the fingerprint card that they print out instead? I don't think the ATF's ORI has to be on the cards (but I may be wrong).
Has to be on the ATF blue cards. If they can print out the ATF blue cards you should have no problem.
As to the ORI info, the cards I sent were blank in that section. The lady at the NFA office said it wasnt a big deal and the examiner would just stamp their data on them before sending them off to the FBI.
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