Choosing our new .223 Duty Rounds [Archive]

View Full Version : Choosing our new .223 Duty Rounds

gamewarden

01-17-12, 11:37

This is my short list in order from least expensive to most.

1. Speer 55 grain gold dot SP 24446
2. Federal LE223T1 (TBBC) ($10 more a case)
3.Federal LE223T3 (same price as T1) was told this is the equivalent to the FBI's:XM556FBIT3 has brass case, FC-MN223LET3 has nickel case. Supposedly we cannot get the actual FBI round.
4.Federal TRU T223S w/55 grain TSX (about $30 more a case)
5.Mk318 Mod 0 was ($70 more per case). Not a consideration just wanted to see where it came in price wise.

I need to make the reccommendation by the end of the month. I'm leaning heavily toward the LE223T1.

Any thought or opinions? These will be for use in are newly acquired M16A1's with collapsible stocks but original 1:12 barrels...??

I also am looking for a new .308 round for our M14's instead of our 150 grain Nolser Tipped Federals. This is what i'm leaning toward: Gold Dot .308 150 grain bonded soft point 24457.

We have over 200 M14's in our inventory and will be getting 30-50 M16A1's.

thanks!

kenndapp

01-17-12, 15:57

Looking for good .308 duty ammo as well. Looking forward to this thread.

Beat Trash

01-17-12, 18:01

If you're stuck with the 1/12 barrels, then you need to limit yourself to the 55 gr loadings. The new FBI loading is either a 62 gr (Federal) or a 64 gr (Winchester) loading.

Whoever told you that your agency can't get the new FBI loading is wrong.

My agency has to have it's annual ammunition order in by the first of January. We hosted ballistics workshops by ATK and Winchester last November, as we were in a unique (for us) position to change duty ammunition in all calibers.

I don't have the data with me currently (at home on an off-day), but I wasn't impressed with the penetration we got form the 55gr Speer God Dot loading.

Tests were bare gel, auto glass, wall board, FBI heavy clothing, and 4 layer denim.

The Federal 55gr LE223T1 did well and was an acceptable load that I would have felt comfortable with. I'd look real hard at this load especially considering you are using 1/12 barreled guns.

With the state bid contract price for Ohio, the LE223T1 is more expensive than the Gold Dot loading. But the difference in performance I witnessed with our testing justifies the cost difference in my opinion.

When the decision was made for my agency's new duty rounds, additional factors had to be considered in addition to the results from the ballistic gel tests.

In 5.56, we are switching to the Winchester 64 gr FBI loading for our 5.56 guns. But our guns are either 1/7 or 1/9 barreled guns.

DocGKR

01-17-12, 18:20

For M16A1's with 1/12 twist barrels, stick with the Fed 55 gr TBBC (LE223T1), BH 50 gr TSX, Speer 55 gr Gold Dot, or Fed 55 gr TSX (T223S).

For .308 semi-autos, the 150 gr Speer Gold Dot, 150 gr Rem CLUB (PRC308WA), or 150 gr Swift Scirocco (previously loaded by Remington as the PRSC308WA but now seems to be discontinued from the current Rem catalog)

johnnychimpo

01-17-12, 22:51

My choices were limited to whats on TN state contract. Rem 55gr SP or 55gr HP. I went with the SP. Bullet performance wasn't a factor only cost.

wilco423

01-18-12, 01:10

Whoever told you that your agency can't get the new FBI loading is wrong.

Our ATK rep told me last week that we wouldn't be able to get it until next year.

FWIW

Beat Trash

01-18-12, 01:37

We went with the Winchester version of the FBI loading. It's due in within the next month or so.

Generalpie

01-18-12, 02:34

We have used both versions of the TBBC in 62 grain. I would personally be happy with any of those choices and would add the 50 grain TSX loading there as well.

SgtSabre

01-18-12, 03:17

wilco423

01-18-12, 05:31

We went with the Winchester version of the FBI loading. It's due in within the next month or so.

Do you mind telling me/us what you're paying? We pay $43 a box for LE223T1, and it gets to be a budget issue.

ack495

01-18-12, 09:40

Do you mind telling me/us what you're paying? We pay $43 a box for LE223T1, and it gets to be a budget issue.

Ouch. Local distributor in MA, AAA Police Supply, has it for $240 a case shipped for LE.

Jurek bros in Greenfield has the new Win bonded round RA556B for $170 a case but I think that on state contract. When my department orders more ammo in July that will be the new round were going to pending my proposal.

ETA: cases are 200 rounds, 10 boxes of 20 round boxes.

DocGKR

01-18-12, 10:38

Instead of discussing price per "case" or "box", please couch the terms in price per cartridge--some cases are 250 rds, some 500, some 1000; likewise some boxes are 20 rds and some 50.

LE TBBC is currently going for around $1.10 per cartridge in CA, however, this price is expected to drop since Federal has added capacity for the FBI contract. LE 55 & 64 gr Gold Dot is about $0.55 per cartridge and the Fed 55 gr TSX load is around $0.65 per cartridge.

Beat Trash

01-18-12, 12:55

We buy off of the state bid contract. Price is set per that contract. I don't have the numbers in front of me.

You bring up a valid point that the individual citizen may not have to address when choosing their defensive ammunition.

If you are buying defensive ammunition for just yourself, then a cents per round isn't that much of an issue. If you are buying defensive/duty ammunition for a department of 1,000 officers, or 10,000 officers, a few cents per round can become a real issue.

wilco423

01-18-12, 17:18

To be specific, we pay $43 per box of 20 for the LE223T1, or $2.15 per cartridge. I think that is the going civilian rate, at least going by Grant's prices. I don't believe it is on our state bid sheet. Not sure what we can do to get that down. For comparison our state bid (MN) on XM193 is $200 per 500, so it seems all our prices are high.

DocGKR

01-18-12, 17:43

State contract price for XM193 is around $0.30 a cartridge here....

Jake'sDad

01-26-12, 01:01

Is XM193 even on the current CA state contract?