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Hungarian_Legionnaire
12-19-12, 21:19
From your lips to G-d's ears...

I STRONGLY agree with you Mr. Kassnar... There would be hell to pay if I was not able to get my Tavor, due to an AWB :angry:

TWA
12-19-12, 21:45
Is the US Tavor still going ahead or are things temporarily on hold? Also, a lot of folks up here in Canada are under the impression these will be eligible for export. Just curious...

Still going ahead, until we can't.

Distributors cannot export but controlling dealers will be difficult, if not impossible

Larry Vickers
12-19-12, 21:50
Michael as you know I give you my full support and prayers that you can finally get the Tavor here for us in the USA

Thanx again for your efforts and I'll do all I can to spread the word once they are here

Be safe and have a good holiday season

LAV

Dave I
12-19-12, 22:46
Michael as you know I give you my full support and prayers that you can finally get the Tavor here for us in the USA

Thanx again for your efforts and I'll do all I can to spread the word once they are here

Be safe and have a good holiday season

LAV

Yeah, what he said. I hope it gets here, and am grateful for the efforts to (finally) get it here in the States.

-Cheers

Hungarian_Legionnaire
12-23-12, 19:24
Can someone tell me whats going on? Is there going to be a NEW "Assault Rifle" ban?! Every place I look for firearms for sale online firearms don't even showing up now, like Cheaper Than Dirt, & Scottsdale Gun CLub's Online Store where there were options to look at AR-15's, AK's, Shotguns ect. all gone, if you "search" for i.e. "LWRCi" everything is Sold Out, has this already happened or is everything just sold out due to the school shooting?

... What is going to happen with the Tavor? I'm really worried about this now that I can't finde anything online, I hope now more than ever people support the NRA by becoming a member, so they can help protect the 2nd amendment, which I think is at risk.

Airhasz
12-23-12, 19:41
[QUOTE=Hungarian_Legionnaire;1479452]Can someone tell me whats going on? Is there going to be a NEW "Assault Rifle" ban?! Every place I look for firearms for sale online firearms don't even showing up now, like Cheaper Than Dirt, & Scottsdale Gun CLub's Online Store where there were options to look at AR-15's, AK's, Shotguns ect. all gone, if you "search" for i.e. "LWRCi" everything is Sold Out, has this already happened or is everything just sold out due to the school shooting?

Where have you been? Yes everything is just about sold out or priced crazy. Yes it is due to the shooting which dominoed into a 'all things firearm' WITCH HUNT by the left...:shout:

Chromium4500
12-23-12, 22:46
From your lips to G-d's ears...

I've been waiting for this rifle to be available domestically for 2 years. I'm praying for you and everyone at IWI that these rifles get out to distributors asap! Thank you!

Hungarian_Legionnaire
12-23-12, 23:55
[QUOTE=Hungarian_Legionnaire;1479452]Can someone tell me whats going on? Is there going to be a NEW "Assault Rifle" ban?! Every place I look for firearms for sale online firearms don't even showing up now, like Cheaper Than Dirt, & Scottsdale Gun CLub's Online Store where there were options to look at AR-15's, AK's, Shotguns ect. all gone, if you "search" for i.e. "LWRCi" everything is Sold Out, has this already happened or is everything just sold out due to the school shooting?

Where have you been? Yes everything is just about sold out or priced crazy. Yes it is due to the shooting which dominoed into a 'all things firearm' WITCH HUNT by the left...:shout:

Is this a FOR SURE "AW" BAN?! :nono:

TurretGunner
12-24-12, 00:18
I love panic buyings like this.

I can unload lots of gun shit, for 3-10x what I paid.

Today I turned a Spikes lower with a PSA LPK into a new G26 with NS
Yesterday Turned 10 PMAGS into a Glock 19

Tommorow.........I'll keep ya updated.


CAN NOT WAIT FOR MY TAVOR. Have been seriously waiting 7 years for this gun to come to the US. I almost cannot believe its really comming.

Hungarian_Legionnaire
12-24-12, 00:57
I love panic buyings like this.

I can unload lots of gun shit, for 3-10x what I paid.

Today I turned a Spikes lower with a PSA LPK into a new G26 with NS
Yesterday Turned 10 PMAGS into a Glock 19

Tommorow.........I'll keep ya updated.


CAN NOT WAIT FOR MY TAVOR. Have been seriously waiting 7 years for this gun to come to the US. I almost cannot believe its really comming.

The firearms community, that is suppose to be like a family, taking care of one another & protecting the 2nd amendment, it's people like you who take advantage of the firearms community when our rights at serious risk, in the spotlight due to some A-hole who killed innocent kids & teachers at a School, you are also profiting off this mass murder/ suicide, Only to profit for your self grosly over pricing firearms & accessories to sell to your fello firearms owners & NRA members. Nobody cares how much you ripped off people or want to know an "update" of how much more you further take advantage of people in this time where the community should stick together more than ever, your post makes me sick, seriously.

TurretGunner
12-24-12, 01:09
The firearms community, that is suppose to be like a family, taking care of one another & protecting the 2nd amendment, it's people like you who take advantage of the firearms community when our rights at serious risk, in the spotlight due to some A-hole who killed innocent kids & teachers at a School, you are also profiting off this mass murder/ suicide, Only to profit for your self grosly over pricing firearms & accessories to sell to your fello firearms owners & NRA members. Nobody cares how much you ripped off people or want to know an "update" of how much more you further take advantage of people in this time where the community should stick together more than ever, your post makes me sick, seriously.

You sound like a socialist. This is America. Supply & Demand, Capitalism and all that good stuff. I guess I should be able to go into a Ford dealership and buy a brand new 1969 Mustang for the 4 grand it cost when it came of the floor? Or I should sell my stocks for what I paid despite their rise in value?

The only fair system is through capitalism. If people do not prepare then they can eat the cost or they go without for their poor foresight.
Just beacuse someone owns a gun, doesn't make them my family the same as us owning a Nissan.

I think it is incredibly rude and ignorant of you for blaming me for profiting because everyone is in panic mode. Clearly the events of past have taught you nothing.

How am I ripping anyone off? Am I forcing anyone to buy or trade something from me? Do they not have the free will to decide if a deal is worth it to them or not?

What the F does a school shooting have to do with me selling products at current market value? If something is overpriced, then it won't sell. You need to recalibrate your moral compass, because its out of wack. You are delusional.

Hungarian_Legionnaire
12-24-12, 01:25
You sound like a socialist. This is America. Supply & Demand, Capitalism and all that good stuff. I guess I should be able to go into a Ford dealership and buy a brand new 1969 Mustang for the 4 grand it cost when it came of the floor? Or I should sell my stocks for what I paid despite their rise in value?

The only fair system is through capitalism. If people do not prepare then they can eat the cost or they go without for their poor foresight.
Just beacuse someone owns a gun, doesn't make them my family the same as us owning a Nissan.

I think it is incredibly rude and ignorant of you for blaming me for profiting because everyone is in panic mode. Clearly the events of past have taught you nothing.

How am I ripping anyone off? Am I forcing anyone to buy or trade something from me? Do they not have the free will to decide if a deal is worth it to them or not?

What the F does a school shooting have to do with me selling products at current market value? If something is overpriced, then it won't sell. You need to recalibrate your moral compass, because its out of wack. You are delusional.

My "moral compass" is dead on, I fought in Americas WAR at the risk of my life, & many other NATO countries who America asked to get involved with the war. Serving 5 years in Légion Etrangère, with two tours in "LeStan". I am an American citizen & fought for the right to "right to keep and bear arms".

Comparing people who own cars to the community who own firearms is asinine, would you compare the NRA to AAA? The firearms community is much more personal than car owners, Nazi's owned cars, Communists own cars, liberals own cars... but NOT all own firearms or are members of the NRA.

Sure you can take advantage of a school shooting by inflating prices, to panicked firearms owners, but does that make it right to brag about it? By the way Pmags aren't rare or 43+ years old & don't increase in value like a mint condition car does.

TurretGunner
12-24-12, 09:35
My "moral compass" is dead on, I fought in Americas WAR at the risk of my life, & many other NATO countries who America asked to get involved with the war. Serving 5 years in Légion Etrangère, with two tours in "LeStan". I am an American citizen & fought for the right to "right to keep and bear arms".

Comparing people who own cars to the community who own firearms is asinine, would you compare the NRA to AAA? The firearms community is much more personal than car owners, Nazi's owned cars, Communists own cars, liberals own cars... but NOT all own firearms or are members of the NRA.

Sure you can take advantage of a school shooting by inflating prices, to panicked firearms owners, but does that make it right to brag about it? By the way Pmags aren't rare or 43+ years old & don't increase in value like a mint condition car does.

So now your saying its a school shootings fault? Someone must be forcing those poor firearm owns to run out and buy everything? Get real guy..... your living in a fantasy world. The only value anything has, is what it is what people are willing to pay. I'm supposed to cut you a deal, lose out on massive profits beacuse you happen to also own a gun, yet were not smart enough to prepare? LOL

Failure2Stop
12-24-12, 10:16
Let's get this thread back on track.

TV-PressPass
01-02-13, 16:11
Back on track you say??

I think I can help with that :D

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8358/8327163429_7b7d003f81_h.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8081/8298599244_1235377378_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8198/8282180555_cc6fc0492e_h.jpg

temecula
01-03-13, 00:54
Back on track you say??

I think I can help with that :D

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8358/8327163429_7b7d003f81_h.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8081/8298599244_1235377378_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8198/8282180555_cc6fc0492e_h.jpg

wow. for real. how much you pay for it ( rifle only)

blaxsun
01-03-13, 01:56
wow. for real. how much you pay for it ( rifle only)

You might cry when you find out...

wild_wild_wes
01-03-13, 15:35
Tell us more about that rifle, TV!

blaxsun
01-03-13, 18:16
Tell us more about that rifle, Blax!

TV and I both have the same 15" CTAR barrel, which is apparently quite a bit more accurate than the 18.5" version it comes standard with here in Canada. TV can probably elaborate on the specifics and his uber cool color scheme, but we both got ours for an outright theft at the time (I believe somewhere around $1,400). Hopefully the US version comes with a gas setting because it's absolutely brutal to shoot suppressed (you can silicone the gas block on top which certainly helps "Tavor Eye").

wild_wild_wes
01-03-13, 20:04
TV and I both have the same 15" CTAR barrel, which is apparently quite a bit more accurate than the 18.5" version it comes standard with here in Canada.

Why do you think that is?

I read either in this thread or another that the shooter was getting 3 MOA with their Tavor...yikes...

blaxsun
01-03-13, 20:12
Why do you think that is?

I read either in this thread or another that the shooter was getting 3 MOA with their Tavor...yikes...

The Tavor isn't a free-float system - and I suspect the longer 18.5" barrel has a lot more 'play' in it. The trigger is also obscenely heavy and almost certainly the main culprit (especially if you're used to an AR15, or spoiled with a Geissele). From what I understand the US Tavor has a different fire control group, so this may not be an issue. And the 16.5" barrel is not much different than the 15" some of us run. The only thing that sucks about the 15" barrel is that it effectively classifies it as an SBR for us (our cutoff is 18.5").

However, a few guys are running some tests with heavier 75 and 77-grain ammo to see if the 1:7 twist on our barrels might have something to do with it. TV shot a 1-3/8" to 2" group @ 100 meters the other day, and this wasn't even an ideal setup. Most have reported results in the 3-4MOA range. For all intents and purposes the Tavor is MOY (minute-of-'yote; coyote). We are supposed to (fingers crossed) be seeing a much lighter trigger group in the future, so this could be a game-changer for us.

TV-PressPass
01-03-13, 20:38
I should really take a measuring tape to my shorty barrel. I keep seeing questions about 15" 14" and 14.5" barrels. I just call it the CTAR barrel.

As far as accuracy:

Tavor Quick and Dirty Accuracy report (https://vimeo.com/56663525)

blaxsun
01-03-13, 21:53
I should really take a measuring tape to my shorty barrel. I keep seeing questions about 15" 14" and 14.5" barrels. I just call it the CTAR barrel.

It's 14.95" and change (I just round it up).

TurretGunner
01-03-13, 22:19
95% of shooters arent going to be shooting anywhere near close to 3MOA with even a 4x at 100yards plus. 3MOA is more than acceptable for a CQB to 300 yard rifle. I doubt anyone plans to shoot this much further anyway.

TV-PressPass
01-04-13, 09:59
Its more of a Canadian thing. Since we can't have reasonable magazine capacities (usually (http://www.youtube.com/user/WildGunmenOsborne)) we obsess over accuracy. Our five rounds carry a lot of weight. :D

MSW
01-10-13, 18:11
I hope this isn't going to become another "....missed it by THAT much...." ( spoken like Maxwell Smart from Get Smart) moments in life where current politics prevents this rifle from being owned.

Been lusting for a Tavor since I first saw one--I even started looking about dual US/Canadian citizenship to get one, but it was too involved.

I guess it's time for a living sacrifice--a fried chicken offering to the gun gods.:D

Or, maybe a roast?:confused:

blaxsun
01-10-13, 19:19
I guess it's time for a living sacrifice--a fried chicken offering to the gun gods.:D

Or, maybe a roast?:confused:

I believe it's pork. :)

Bulletdog
01-16-13, 02:04
I fondled a couple of them today. They were fine, but I had two major problems with them. The ejection port can be set for either side, but its not something that can be done on the fly. It's a "get out your tools and go to the workbench" sort of thing. When I clear a house I transtition from right to left for left to right depending on the corner. Not gonna be able to do that with this rifle. Also the safety is very large and obtrusive whichever side you run it on.

The man said it was going to be released in the next few months. I don't remember exactly when he said. He seemed like he wasn't too sure.

Hungarian_Legionnaire
01-16-13, 03:08
I fondled a couple of them today. They were fine, but I had two major problems with them. The ejection port can be set for either side, but its not something that can be done on the fly. It's a "get out your tools and go to the workbench" sort of thing. When I clear a house I transtition from right to left for left to right depending on the corner. Not gonna be able to do that with this rifle. Also the safety is very large and obtrusive whichever side you run it on.

The man said it was going to be released in the next few months. I don't remember exactly when he said. He seemed like he wasn't too sure.

The IWI.US Tavor SAR doesn't have the same safety as the Israel/ Canadian IWI Tavor TAR-21? I don't recall the Israel Tavor TAR-21 that was at last years SHOT Show @ the Charles Daily booth to have an unusually large safety, it seemed pretty much like the safety on the FNH SCAR-16 to me.

JadeRaven
01-16-13, 10:37
I fondled a couple of them today. They were fine, but I had two major problems with them. The ejection port can be set for either side, but its not something that can be done on the fly. It's a "get out your tools and go to the workbench" sort of thing. When I clear a house I transtition from right to left for left to right depending on the corner. Not gonna be able to do that with this rifle. Also the safety is very large and obtrusive whichever side you run it on.


When you do a tactical transition from left to right you should incorporate an inverted grip angle (upside down). You will lose your optics but you could instead rely on your IR laser & NV. This problem will be alleviated when bottom rail options allow for additional optics on the 6 o'clock rail to accommodate a tactical inverted grip angle.

:jester:

TurretGunner
01-17-13, 17:38
When you do a tactical transition from left to right you should incorporate an inverted grip angle (upside down). You will lose your optics but you could instead rely on your IR laser & NV. This problem will be alleviated when bottom rail options allow for additional optics on the 6 o'clock rail to accommodate a tactical inverted grip angle.

:jester:

Or you could just shoot it and eat the brass. If you in a situation where you need to put rounds down range on your non dominate side..... I think you can suck up some brass flying into your chest.

SCARed
01-17-13, 19:56
From the videos and reviews I've seen, I thought it deflected the brass forward to account for off side shooting. Did I miss something or does it not eject brass forward enough?

Hungarian_Legionnaire
01-18-13, 00:37
Or you could just shoot it and eat the brass. If you in a situation where you need to put rounds down range on your non dominate side..... I think you can suck up some brass flying into your chest.

...Also the Tavor has an adjustable 'case deflector' that redirects spent brass away from the Operators face when shooting in a CQB/ tactical situations, for example when clearing a house, going from room to room, taking cover & having to quickly transition to your support shoulder. It may take some time getting use to, having hot brass ejecting right out in front of your face, but the case deflector (when in the open position) gives the brass a specific throw so that it's possible to shoot in a tactical/ CQB situation where you may have to fire from your support shoulder, but the brass won't hit you in the face.

Hot Sauce
01-18-13, 17:32
I've never heard of the Israelis doing any kind of shoulder switching during CQB. Remember, you're talking about an essentially firearm-free civilian population. They're taking people into the military and training them up from scratch, and are probably pretty happy if people can get hits using just their primary shoulder and hand.

This looks like typical of the Israeli style CQB tactics courses taught in the US: http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FdedkHDnalk/0.jpg

Since this rifle was built with their military's specifications in mind, having it be ambidextrous at a moment's notice was probably just not a part of the doctrine or training environment.

With that said, I hope some kind of solution for that will be thought up. You could, I suppose, cant the gun inward a bit when you switch shoulders so that empty brass doesn't pelt you in the face, but that seems to me a substandard solution.

TurretGunner
01-18-13, 19:00
I've never heard of the Israelis doing any kind of shoulder switching during CQB. Remember, you're talking about an essentially firearm-free civilian population. They're taking people into the military and training them up from scratch, and are probably pretty happy if people can get hits using just their primary shoulder and hand.

This looks like typical of the Israeli style CQB tactics courses taught in the US: http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FdedkHDnalk/0.jpg

Since this rifle was built with their military's specifications in mind, having it be ambidextrous at a moment's notice was probably just not a part of the doctrine or training environment.

With that said, I hope some kind of solution for that will be thought up. You could, I suppose, cant the gun inward a bit when you switch shoulders so that empty brass doesn't pelt you in the face, but that seems to me a substandard solution.

The Izzies have been fighting close quarters for a long time dude. They are more battle hardened than most of the US Military and for a conscripsion based force, are very proffesional.

Furthermore, most people there after their service, are still in the millitia and keep their weapons should they get called back to duty or need to defend their homeland.

I would take the average Isreali soldier over the average american soldier any day of the week. Same with the FFL.

There is no combat firearm in the world that you can change the ejection side without some modification or disasembly. Why would the Tavor be any different. I guess the US Military with their M4's must not shoot weak side either since its immposible for them to change the ejection port.

I guess the laws of Physicals don't exist over there, since shooting from your weak side is not needed..........

Or you could just shoot the ****ing weapon weak side , not be a pussy when a few pieces of brass hit your chest or Body Armor.

Business_Casual
01-18-13, 19:19
Remember, you're talking about an essentially firearm-free civilian population. They're taking people into the military and training them up from scratch, and are probably pretty happy if people can get hits using just their primary shoulder and .

They do some jacked up shit for sure, but where do you get firearm-free ?

bc

kmrtnsn
01-18-13, 23:58
The Izzies have been fighting close quarters for a long time dude. They are more battle hardened than most of the US Military and for a conscripsion based force, are very proffesional.

Furthermore, most people there after their service, are still in the millitia and keep their weapons should they get called back to duty or need to defend their homeland.

I would take the average Isreali soldier over the average american soldier any day of the week. Same with the FFL.

There is no combat firearm in the world that you can change the ejection side without some modification or disasembly. Why would the Tavor be any different. I guess the US Military with their M4's must not shoot weak side either since its immposible for them to change the ejection port.

I guess the laws of Physicals don't exist over there, since shooting from your weak side is not needed..........

Or you could just shoot the ****ing weapon weak side , not be a pussy when a few pieces of brass hit your chest or Body Armor.

Have you actually seen the IDF operate up close?

Cagemonkey
01-19-13, 07:40
The Izzies have been fighting close quarters for a long time dude. They are more battle hardened than most of the US Military and for a conscripsion based force, are very proffesional.

Furthermore, most people there after their service, are still in the millitia and keep their weapons should they get called back to duty or need to defend their homeland.

I would take the average Isreali soldier over the average american soldier any day of the week. Same with the FFL.

There is no combat firearm in the world that you can change the ejection side without some modification or disasembly. Why would the Tavor be any different. I guess the US Military with their M4's must not shoot weak side either since its immposible for them to change the ejection port.

I guess the laws of Physicals don't exist over there, since shooting from your weak side is not needed..........

Or you could just shoot the ****ing weapon weak side , not be a pussy when a few pieces of brass hit your chest or Body Armor.The Izzies are over rated and got their asses handed to them last time in Southern Lebanon by Hezbolla. Many expects have said their in need of a Professional Volunteer Army.

Hot Sauce
01-19-13, 19:58
Furthermore, most people there after their service, are still in the millitia and keep their weapons should they get called back to duty or need to defend their homeland.

No, that's the way it works in Switzerland. Respectfully, you don't know what you're talking about.



There is no combat firearm in the world that you can change the ejection side without some modification or disasembly. Why would the Tavor be any different. I guess the US Military with their M4's must not shoot weak side either since its immposible for them to change the ejection port.

Are you actually being serious? There are plenty of weapons that do not need it. If you shoot a conventional layout firearm weak side, it is not going to spit brass in your face. The F2000 is a bullpup where designers understood this was a problem for bullpups, which is why they made a system where brass ejects further forward. The Tavor is one of the weapons, that depending on how you shoulder that rifle, needs it. Here is a picture of a guy who has a high hold.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-TQLc7yFQ7Rc/UGirxkchygI/AAAAAAAAAcM/azMoMA-G5SM/s1600/INT_7324.jpg

There is potential that he'd get brass in the chin if he went weak side, depending on the issue that we were discussing: if they have accommodated the system is such a way that it ejects forward. If you don't like the discussion and we're all pussies, you don't have to participate. All those guys getting brass to the face from their Glocks must be pussies too.:rolleyes:



I guess the laws of Physicals don't exist over there, since shooting from your weak side is not needed..........

Or you could just shoot the ****ing weapon weak side , not be a pussy when a few pieces of brass hit your chest or Body Armor.

There is a difference between what you perceive as needed and what actually happens. But please prove me wrong. Perhaps show me videos of line infantry soldiers practicing using both shoulders with Tavors. Some kind of proof. I look forward to it.

Hot Sauce
01-19-13, 20:05
They do some jacked up shit for sure, but where do you get firearm-free ?

bc

Basic research and look up of their laws shows that civilian firearms ownership is highly restricted. You're right to think it odd, it doesn't jive with our perception the we get from the news.

Littlelebowski
01-20-13, 14:36
The Izzies have been fighting close quarters for a long time dude. They are more battle hardened than most of the US Military and for a conscripsion based force, are very proffesional.



Jesus Christ. I mean, have you heard of "Iraq" or "Afghanistan?"

Hands down, the stupidest, most uninformed post I've seen in a long ****ing time. As in you should be embarrassed that you wrote such drivel.

Littlelebowski
01-20-13, 14:38
The Izzies are over rated and got their asses handed to them last time in Southern Lebanon by Hezbolla. Many experts have said they are in need of a Professional Volunteer Army.

Thanks. Was getting ready to point out modern history to Turret Gunner.

TurretGunner
01-20-13, 15:01
Jesus Christ. I mean, have you heard of "Iraq" or "Afghanistan?"

Hands down, the stupidest, most uninformed post I've seen in a long ****ing time. As in you should be embarrassed that you wrote such drivel.

Take a look at my handle.......

90% + of the Us military is not combat arms. Most people in afgan and Iraq are fobits, the most dangerous event is breaking an ankle on Salsa night or running to the DFAC before they run out of Lobster.

Outside of the Marines, you are your MOS/RATE first, and a soldier second. The training, mentality and day to day enviroment all contribute to the average american soldier/marine/zoomie/squid not being a true warrior.

The Izzies have been engaged in constant warefare, in their own backyard for a long time. You take it much more seriosuly when your home town is getting rocketed, mortared, and bombed, than some distant 3rd world shit hole.

And FYI, Hezbolah was not fighting conventialy. Just about every country outside of the US with its combined arms, intel, and quick strike ability would have been in the same situation. They could have brought down fire and brimstone, thus turning EVERYONE in Lebon against them and willing to take up arms. How smart would that be as they have to live next to the ****ers? They were well funded and trained from Iran, its not like a bunch of goat farmers kicked the shit out of the izzies.

I guess the US Military must be shit too since we cant seem to win in either Iraq or Afganistan. Fighting insurgents and fanantics is such a easy job...............

TurretGunner
01-20-13, 15:11
No, that's the way it works in Switzerland. Respectfully, you don't know what you're talking about.



Are you actually being serious? There are plenty of weapons that do not need it. If you shoot a conventional layout firearm weak side, it is not going to spit brass in your face. The F2000 is a bullpup where designers understood this was a problem for bullpups, which is why they made a system where brass ejects further forward. The Tavor is one of the weapons, that depending on how you shoulder that rifle, needs it. Here is a picture of a guy who has a high hold.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-TQLc7yFQ7Rc/UGirxkchygI/AAAAAAAAAcM/azMoMA-G5SM/s1600/INT_7324.jpg

There is potential that he'd get brass in the chin if he went weak side, depending on the issue that we were discussing: if they have accommodated the system is such a way that it ejects forward. If you don't like the discussion and we're all pussies, you don't have to participate. All those guys getting brass to the face from their Glocks must be pussies too.:rolleyes:



There is a difference between what you perceive as needed and what actually happens. But please prove me wrong. Perhaps show me videos of line infantry soldiers practicing using both shoulders with Tavors. Some kind of proof. I look forward to it.


You are correct I was thinking of the swiss.

At any rate, The FS2000 ejects out the front (which can become jammed) and is not an example of a weapon that you change the firing port on. How many countries use the FS2000?

You are seriously ****ing delusional if you don't think that they shoot with their weak side. You clearly were never in the military nor have done and MOUT training.

No one in their right ****ing mind is going to expose their silhouette to shoot around a corner on their weak side.

They must not have left corners in Israel for the right handed shooters a visa versa.

Or wait, when they come to a red zone that doesnt mesh well with their current ejection config, they break out the tools, spare bolt and change over before they can clear the area.


Or maybe they should just stand on their ****ing heads so they can shoot their weak side without worrying about a couple pieces of brass hitting their body armor.

I'm not going to do your research for you. Just beacuse you can't readily find a video of a small countries military shooting in a certain config, doesn't mean shit. Common sense is clearly, not very common.

Hot Sauce
01-20-13, 16:52
You are seriously ****ing delusional if you don't think that they shoot with their weak side. You clearly were never in the military nor have done and MOUT training.

No one in their right ****ing mind is going to expose their silhouette to shoot around a corner on their weak side.

They must not have left corners in Israel for the right handed shooters a visa versa.

Or wait, when they come to a red zone that doesnt mesh well with their current ejection config, they break out the tools, spare bolt and change over before they can clear the area.


Or maybe they should just stand on their ****ing heads so they can shoot their weak side without worrying about a couple pieces of brass hitting their body armor.

I'm not going to do your research for you. Just beacuse you can't readily find a video of a small countries military shooting in a certain config, doesn't mean shit. Common sense is clearly, not very common.

Like I expected, you went on a rant to deflect (quite ironic actually since we're talking about deflecting spent cases). You deflected because you have nothing more than conjecture. You have no idea how someone else trains, yet you feel yourself an expert to comment on it.

You don't have to do my research for me, smart guy. And you would not be so good at it, I think, since you can't actually back up your point with anything further than mirror imaging your own thoughts onto a foreign military. Its one of the most common logical fallacies.

I'm seriously delusional huh? Well I hope you say that from a place of personal experience. You trained or worked side by side with them, right? Or are still running on nothing but assumptions.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, but try to reason through your argument like an adult. Which means assumptions are not evidence.

"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." -Christopher Hitchens

TV-PressPass
01-20-13, 17:00
I'd like to weigh in on this briefly.

You can shoot weak sided. I do.

Check 2:50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6eG_xuQDcg

But the Israeli's don't. I asked an IWI employee at Shot Show about transitions and slings. He explained that the IDF does not transition shoulders and used this leaning-back-twisting trick that I got on film of how they approach weak sided barriers.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8088/8372757127_8f8b2c7a8e_z.jpg

Hot Sauce
01-20-13, 17:00
90% + of the Us military is not combat arms. Most people in afgan and Iraq are fobits, the most dangerous event is breaking an ankle on Salsa night or running to the DFAC before they run out of Lobster.

Outside of the Marines, you are your MOS/RATE first, and a soldier second. The training, mentality and day to day enviroment all contribute to the average american soldier/marine/zoomie/squid not being a true warrior.

What makes you think that any other modern western military has a tooth-to-tail ratio that differs too much from ours?

Littlelebowski
01-20-13, 17:06
8 years, Marine Corps Infantry and your Israeli worship is clearly based on reputation, not experience.


Take a look at my handle.......

90% + of the Us military is not combat arms. Most people in afgan and Iraq are fobits, the most dangerous event is breaking an ankle on Salsa night or running to the DFAC before they run out of Lobster.

Outside of the Marines, you are your MOS/RATE first, and a soldier second. The training, mentality and day to day enviroment all contribute to the average american soldier/marine/zoomie/squid not being a true warrior.

The Izzies have been engaged in constant warefare, in their own backyard for a long time. You take it much more seriosuly when your home town is getting rocketed, mortared, and bombed, than some distant 3rd world shit hole.

And FYI, Hezbolah was not fighting conventialy. Just about every country outside of the US with its combined arms, intel, and quick strike ability would have been in the same situation. They could have brought down fire and brimstone, thus turning EVERYONE in Lebon against them and willing to take up arms. How smart would that be as they have to live next to the ****ers? They were well funded and trained from Iran, its not like a bunch of goat farmers kicked the shit out of the izzies.

I guess the US Military must be shit too since we cant seem to win in either Iraq or Afganistan. Fighting insurgents and fanantics is such a easy job...............

Hot Sauce
01-20-13, 17:07
I'd like to weigh in on this briefly.

You can shoot weak sided. I do.

Check 2:50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6eG_xuQDcg

But the Israeli's don't. I asked an IWI employee at Shot Show about transitions and slings. He explained that the IDF does not transition shoulders and used this leaning-back-twisting trick that I got on film of how they approach weak sided barriers.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8088/8372757127_8f8b2c7a8e_z.jpg

Cool, hands on experience. Do you find that you need to hold the rifle a bit lower when switching to weak side or do you use the same exact cheek weld? It wasn't completely clear to me from your video.

Littlelebowski
01-20-13, 17:08
To even ponder that the Israeli's conscripts are better than our forces with a majority of the SNCO,NCO, and officer leadership having multiple combat deployments (not against kids throwing rocks and getting their asses kicked in 08) is showing an unwillingness to embrace reality.

Of course, I don't understand the Russophiles either.....

Magic_Salad0892
01-20-13, 17:24
Of course, I don't understand the Russophiles either.....

I blame that shit on dudes like Sonny Puzikas who sell their training services based on the fact that they were Spetsnaz.

He's not the only person who did that either.

Also, it's a thing of "if com-bloc guns are cool... then so are the com-bloc soldiers!"

TV-PressPass
01-20-13, 17:24
Cool, hands on experience. Do you find that you need to hold the rifle a bit lower when switching to weak side or do you use the same exact cheek weld? It wasn't completely clear to me from your video.

I have found it challenging in the past to acquire optics or irons when holding left handed, which says to me that I likely hold lower instinctually.

One of my goals for 2013 is to take a carbine course that forces me to do more off-hand shooting.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8355/8282179769_16c37d59e9_z.jpg

Hot Sauce
01-20-13, 17:24
To even ponder that the Israeli's conscripts are better than our forces with a majority of the SNCO,NCO, and officer leadership having multiple combat deployments (not against kids throwing rocks and getting their asses kicked in 08) is showing an unwillingness to embrace reality.

Of course, I don't understand the Russophiles either.....

I'm not trying to jump on the other side of the fence and say they're terrible. Despite the mistakes in Lebanon, Hezb got real quiet after that war. They got their asses rocked harder than they're willing to publicly admit. Not to mention, a lot of the failures were analyzed into new operating procedures i.e. the Gaza War just a few years later.

I don't doubt for a second that the average Izzie infantryman is good at what he does, just like a US infantryman. However, your mention of NCOs is an important point. AFAIK their NCOs serve their several years of conscripted time and that's it. Which is to say, no professional NCO corps. Kind of a big deal, I think.

As far as Russophiles go, just remember, that by the end of 2013 the Russians will make... SOCKS standard issue:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/shortcuts/2013/jan/16/russian-soldiers-replacing-foot-wraps-socks

Hot Sauce
01-20-13, 17:27
I have found it challenging in the past to acquire optics or irons when holding left handed, which says to me that I likely hold lower instinctually.

One of my goals for 2013 is to take a carbine course that forces me to do more off-hand shooting.


Thanks, that exactly the type of feedback I was looking for.

Lucky Canadians, you got some cool toys. :D

I can't wait till we can get these too.

Hot Sauce
01-20-13, 17:37
I blame that shit on dudes like Sonny Puzikas who sell their training services based on the fact that they were Spetsnaz.

He's not the only person who did that either.

Also, it's a thing of "if com-bloc guns are cool... then so are the com-bloc soldiers!"

Part of it also is focusing on SOF being cool. US, British, Aussie, French, Israelis, they all have great SOF units. So do the Russians, no doubt. That doesn't mean average Johnny is going to be the biggest badass in the universe. And neither will average Ivan.

I'm sure there are some useful things all of us could learn even from guys like Sonny, if you some of those methods and safety proof them a little bit. Having said that, no amount of secret Spetsnaz knowledge is worth taking a double-tap to the torso! :eek::eek:

Magic_Salad0892
01-20-13, 17:50
Part of it also is focusing on SOF being cool. US, British, Aussie, French, Israelis, they all have great SOF units. So do the Russians, no doubt. That doesn't mean average Johnny is going to be the biggest badass in the universe. And neither will average Ivan.

I'm sure there are some useful things all of us could learn even from guys like Sonny, if you some of those methods and safety proof them a little bit. Having said that, no amount of secret Spetsnaz knowledge is worth taking a double-tap to the torso! :eek::eek:

I bet another part of it is the Cold War thing. Everybody is infatuated with what they percieved as "the enemy" for so many years.

TV-PressPass
01-20-13, 18:30
Here's the number one reason I like the Tavor:

Barrel lengths go

16.5"
15"
7.5"


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8080/8370600672_0c43317ea1_c.jpg

HES
01-20-13, 19:29
Thank you for that pic. You just got "She Who Shall Be Obeyed" on board.

cochraneap
03-15-14, 16:50
Here's the number one reason I like the Tavor:

Barrel lengths go

16.5"
15"
7.5"


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8080/8370600672_0c43317ea1_c.jpg

That Tavor is beautiful. What did you use on the stock? Duracoat or something else?

Hispanic_Hercules
06-08-14, 18:08
This will be my next purchase. Love these rifles. The reps came out to our range and did a demo. Smooth shooting and well balanced.