View Full Version : Leupold Mark6 1-6x Optic Updates
From everything I've read and seen, this is either going to be a tremendous hit for the lightweight low powered variable scene, or a flop, but given the reaction of Kyle Lamb to it, I'm inclined to think Leupy may have gotten it right, especially when their rep mentioned the price point.
Anybody gotten a chance to see it up close yet?
Any details on reticle, if it's going to be offered with BDC turret markings, and final weight with mount?
I'm sure there are going to be inevitable comparisons between this and the Z6i, as well as other optics, and be tied in with speculation regarding the Army Squad Optic competition, but if this really is the CQBSS for mortals, I'm probably in the early adoption team.
ICANHITHIMMAN
01-17-12, 23:12
WHat did Kyle say? I saw his endorsement of the MK8 but not this?
Robb Jensen
01-17-12, 23:16
I shoot an AR with one on it yesterday,it's a damn nice scope.
thopkins22
01-17-12, 23:19
Did the illumination overcome daylight? I never really got my mind around whether or not the CQBSS actually did. Some people said yes, some people said no, and still others said yes but only with certain models.
Robb Jensen
01-17-12, 23:25
Did the illumination overcome daylight? I never really got my mind around whether or not the CQBSS actually did. Some people said yes, some people said no, and still others said yes but only with certain models.
Yes it was similar to the illumination of a Burris 1-4x XTR. IIRC the suggested retail is $1500
Alaskapopo
01-18-12, 04:35
Yes it was similar to the illumination of a Burris 1-4x XTR. IIRC the suggested retail is $1500
The Burris XTR is not that good from what I recall in the illumination department. But it sounds like Leupold is getting better than the previously un usable illumination in the daylight.
Pat
I have a VX-R Patrol 1.25-4 here. I've only turned it on outside and used it to zero, and fired a couple of mags at 25 yards, but so far it's bright enough to see outdoors. I'll use it in a class this weekend and have more to report.
FWIW, I don't think the production version of this 1-6 is going to be out for quite a little bit. I have an email from Leupold around here somewhere from when I got the 1.25-4 I'll have to try and dig up.
http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2012/01/17/cant-touch-the-mark8-cqbss-check-out-the-leupold-mark-6-1-6x/
Link from Gear Scout. This scope looks pretty good.
Like Kyle said do not touch it unless you want to buy one because you will want it. best in the class that I have seen. Hopefully it comes of as shown at SHOT.
Still a little pricey for most I believe but less expensive than those it can really be compared against.
Good glass is not really that expensive they just know they can get it.
I really respect Lamb's opinion but how is the "tube effect" at 1x?
I'm very interested for a build.
Does anyone know the aprox length and weight?
I wonder if capped turrets could be an option.
Does anyone know the aprox length and weight?
I wonder if capped turrets could be an option.
It would be nice on the CMR-W version. I think I'd want regular turrets on the TMR version though. I'd really like it if they had the Mark 8 style turrets.
ICANHITHIMMAN
01-18-12, 20:13
Yes it was similar to the illumination of a Burris 1-4x XTR. IIRC the suggested retail is $1500
At this price I'm all in!
It would be nice on the CMR-W version. I think I'd want regular turrets on the TMR version though. I'd really like it if they had the Mark 8 style turrets.
The VXR I have has what I think of as target turrets, which on this I think are kind of pointless. On the 1-8 they seem to make a bit more sense. Not sure on the 1-6x.
The VXR I have has what I think of as target turrets, which on this I think are kind of pointless. On the 1-8 they seem to make a bit more sense. Not sure on the 1-6x.
Understandable, which is why I would desire turrets like the Mark 8 since you have the ability to quickly adjust them if necessary, but are unable to get whacked out of alignment with normal use. As a rule I generally hate uncapped turrets.
ICANHITHIMMAN
01-18-12, 22:47
Put the H58 in that puppy and we are ready to rock!
mkmckinley
01-18-12, 22:54
Put the H58 in that puppy and we are ready to rock!
Oh hell yeah, that would be a great match for an optic like this.
ICANHITHIMMAN
01-18-12, 22:56
Oh hell yeah, that would be a great match for an optic like this.
THe one KevinB showed us has the H58
wileecoyote
01-18-12, 23:03
THe one KevinB showed us has the H58
Too good to be true, there has to be a catch.... there's always a catch!!!
Seems like every time we get excited for something like this we get the rug pulled out from under us with some kind of missing feature or bad reticles etc....or a price point just shy of the national debt....
I was giving the USO 1-4 and the Swaro z6i a hard look. If they put that reticle in I'd definitely go for this!!!!!!!
I'm seeing some prices coming out at or around $1950 as well for certain versions - these might be the CMR-W .308 versions with the larger H8 reticle, with a mount. I can hope.
Even if the final price ends up a bit north of $1500, I think the CQBSS type turrets with a smartly chosen BDC, a bright dot that has some decent battery life (I do like that it has off positions in between each of the 7 brightness settings).
Looks like the 34mm tube may not actually translate into a really large enough objective lens, unless the initial specs are a typo, it may actually be a 20mm obj.
I'm also curious about the durability of the hinge and how watertight that illumination area is after opening it up.
Looks like cattails will still work, and the rear part of the housing staying static is great for running flip-up covers.
I just think the illumination is the only thing I'm waiting to really see - living in the desert means I get some pretty bright days, and if the reticle isn't great at the lowest magnification, then that would probably herd me to the older 1.1-4x Short Dot.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-19-12, 02:19
For sale: One CQBSS
Daylight reticle, nice. Makes you wonder why they couldn't do it onteh twice as expensive CQBSS.
ICANHITHIMMAN
01-19-12, 11:02
I just want a scope with the hours grid that is in the 1-8 range dont want the horus blackbird as its to long. Had the USO to heavy have the Talon its great on my carbine but need optic for my SPR. Dont need turrets with the H58 just zero and run like the talon with more power.
Dont care who makes it but leupold is one of the best choices out there.
The MK6 and VX6 scopes were very impressive scopes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKFLyOBgYBg
another video
This looks like a really nice option at a great price. I wonder if they will be available within a year or so. It seems like it is still a ways off unless I'm reading the tea leaves wrong.
Took a year before the VX6 scopes started trickling out.
ICANHITHIMMAN
01-21-12, 20:13
I watched theat video I didnt here him mention the H58 wich concerns me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lls1kRSVrsg&feature=related
another scope review from Tactical Gun Review.
And the mk6 3-18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0zDutegXOI&feature=related
Took a year before the VX6 scopes started trickling out.
Since its still in the design phase I would think that is about right for a timeline... That said, if it comes out with the features they are showing now, at a price point of under 2k, it looks to be well worth the wait. I could easily see picking up both the 1-6 and the 3-18.
I almost feel like I'm being oversold - at that price point with the feature set listed, if it's as tank-like durable and really has good daytime illumination, then I see no reason to run a different zoom optic. 1-6x is right for a 16" 5.56, and the 3-18x on a 20" 3.08 gun...
I'll wait a year and have the weapons ready to go under these optics.
Any more info on this one? Looking forward to it...
I too am very excited to see this scope.
I have heard end of May early June release from a few that have spoken to the reps, but can not confirm.
I've been following this and the VX-6 with some intrest.
In the big scope thread on TOS, the author said the VX-6 1-6x24 was availible with the SPR Firedot reticle and mil turrets from the custom shop.
If thats the case, there is a lot of function for maybe $1100-1200.
Iron-sapper
04-25-12, 08:54
I called Leupold yesterday to ask about availability for this optic. The tech representative that I spoke with said that they will start shipping the latter half of May.
I've been following this and the VX-6 with some intrest.
In the big scope thread on TOS, the author said the VX-6 1-6x24 was availible with the SPR Firedot reticle and mil turrets from the custom shop.
If thats the case, there is a lot of function for maybe $1100-1200.
I've also been very interested in the potential of this scope. I pushed Leupold for it really hard a couple months back and got stonewalled. However, here's what was posted on TOS:
Leupold VX-6 1-6x update.
Today I spoke with one of the Leupold reps regarding the VX-6 1-6x. This scope caught my eye at Shot by having a flash dot at a price point much lower than one can typically get this type of illumination. Its optics were also very good with regards to both clarity and field of view. The only rub was that it was not offered in a configuration with any ranging capability at all. I commiserated with the Leupold rep about this problem and he confided in me a secret (which I kept thank you very much, it wasn't easy for me). He told me that he had been working for some time to get a ranging capable reticle in this scope. He was not sure that it would happen, but promised to keep me informed if it did.
That brings us to today. I received an e-mail from the rep announcing success, at least partially, on his part. The VX-6 1-6x will be able to be purchased, with the Firedot SPR reticle, as an option, through the Custom Shop. I have pictured this reticle below. It is a mil ladder reticle with a circle added and flash dot illumination.
The Firedot SPR reticle:
http://i363.photobucket.com/albums/oo73/BigJimFish/firedotsprreticle.jpg
Leupold was pushing their Custom Shop a great deal at Shot this year, especially with regards to their CDS dial system. This is a dial system that can be engraved for your specific load. To be honest, I really hadn't paid that much attention to the Custom Shop literature as, in the past, you really didn't have much in the way of features you could change that mattered. Specifically, there usually was little or no reticle or adjustment choice. You could get the scope engraved or anodized, which might be great for a retirement gift, but that was about it. In the case of this VX-6, you will be able to add this mil ranging reticle and also change the adjustments to .1mil to match the reticle: quite an upgrade in functionality.
To sum it all up, you will be able to get the VX-6 with a ranging mil reticle and mil adjustments. You will also be able to get an 8mil, one turn, zero stop, if you want it. This will all be through the Custom Shop only. I guess a cool anodizing job might be in order since you have to go custom anyway. Perhaps black with green fade and black splatter effect.
And later:
Can I get a contact name for custom vx-6. Trent at Leupold says it can not be done.
I'm working on it. These things take time. Frankly, I'm surprised it's going as fast as it is.
So it appears that it's not really available yet, but in the pipeline.
If that is true, a VX6 with a SPR Firedot and mil turrets would be a lot of features for a VERY reasonable price point. To the point i'm seriously considering getting a VX6 now...
The ballistic dials i'm not really intrested in, for a scope like this I'd want locking or covered turrets.
The MK 6 1-6 is available for preorder through Leupolds Fed/LE program. I ordered mine 2 weeks ago and was told late May/early-mid June. By the LE pricing, it will be higher than the $1500 some were talking about. I was told retail was $1949 if I remember right. I will be putting it on my 14.5 762 PredatOBR whenever that arrives in the Fall I am thinking. Should be a real nice setup...:smile:
I've heard some of the first production ones going out will be late June/July for the 3-18, and 1-6x sometime in august, with the bulk of orders heading out in september onwards.
Failure2Stop
04-28-12, 10:41
A VX6 wth a mil reticle and a nice center illumination, with that 4 mil ring and .1 mil adjutments (I'd even settle for .2 at this point) provides a whole lot of check marks on my "want" list.
If Leupold used the .1 mil clicks on the Patrol Firedot SPR, I would think that would easily carry over to the VX6. I'd want them capped though, locking would be better...but hey.
Im interested in the SPR reticle more for holdovers than for ranging. Even with a x6 power ranging is pretty tricky.
As soon as I can find a VX6 Firedot with a duplex for a good price I'm on it. Upgrading it later is just gravy.
A VX6 wth a mil reticle and a nice center illumination, with that 4 mil ring and .1 mil adjutments (I'd even settle for .2 at this point) provides a whole lot of check marks on my "want" list.
I agree with you Jack, it would be great if they offer a nice mil reticle.
You can get it with the Firedot SPR through the custom shop with matching mil turrets.
I agree with you Jack, it would be great if they offer a nice mil reticle.
I think they already have a viable one in the TMR, although some minor improvements could certainly be made.
I'm just really worried that Leupold is going to pigeon hole themselves with the early offerings, especially if the most common iteration of the optic is nothing more than the CMR-W minor improvement over Trijicon's ACOG reticles, and then just throw MOA knobs on it and call that good.
ICANHITHIMMAN
06-05-12, 20:10
I think they already have a viable one in the TMR, although some minor improvements could certainly be made.
I'm just really worried that Leupold is going to pigeon hole themselves with the early offerings, especially if the most common iteration of the optic is nothing more than the CMR-W minor improvement over Trijicon's ACOG reticles, and then just throw MOA knobs on it and call that good.
I worry about that to but I think they are going to come threw for us
Leupold really has seem to picked up their shit latley.
As soon as I can free up the cash a VX-6 will be on the way...
patriot_man
06-06-12, 03:19
I hear true 1x being thrown around a lot when talking about the Mark 6. Can anyone that has used one stand by this claim that it's just as fast as an aimpoint type optic? Really digging it and wouldn't mind swapping an Eotech for one.
Failure2Stop
06-06-12, 05:30
I hear true 1x being thrown around a lot when talking about the Mark 6. Can anyone that has used one stand by this claim that it's just as fast as an aimpoint type optic? Really digging it and wouldn't mind swapping an Eotech for one.
Being true 1x isn't really about speed.
Experienced shooters can be as fast with a 3-4x magnified optic s they can with an Aimpoint.
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throw MOA knobs on it and call that good.
Those target knobs on the 1.25-4x VXR Patrol are a huge mistake IMO. I believe I've bumped them out of zero more than once. You can reset the knobs so at least you know when you're bumped, but they just serve no damn purpose at all on that optic.
Can't say if they have a place on the 6x until I see it, but my gut reaction is that they do not.
From the pics I saw on TOS, the VX-6 mil turrets were capped, finger adjustable under the cap.
The CDS ballistic matched turret is an exposed non-locking.
Non-locking exposed turrets are a deal breaker for me, I'd rather just stick with capped, regardless of the adjustment. On a dedicated precision rifle maybe, but checking them should be worked into the manual of arms.
Those target knobs on the 1.25-4x VXR Patrol are a huge mistake IMO. I believe I've bumped them out of zero more than once. You can reset the knobs so at least you know when you're bumped, but they just serve no damn purpose at all on that optic.
Can't say if they have a place on the 6x until I see it, but my gut reaction is that they do not.
I agree Rob. at the ranges I use a 1-4, I leave mine capped and use dots/hashes for ranging and holdoff. turrets, IMO, are for 10x and up.
btw, good to see you back... :cool:
Failure2Stop
06-06-12, 16:09
I agree Rob. at the ranges I use a 1-4, I leave mine capped and use dots/hashes for ranging and holdoff. turrets, IMO, are for 10x and up.
I do the same.
Out to 300 I just hold for elevation and wind. If the wind is not a significant factor I will just use Mil holds out to 500.
If I am shooting past 300 with wind effect I dial elevation and hold for wind. I occasionally dial for distances between 200 and 300, but only if I am shooting at very small targets, and really that is just for more consistency during wind hold-off.
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ICANHITHIMMAN
06-06-12, 16:18
Capped turrets are one of the reasons I run the Horus Talon. I dont want them on my Mk6 tough I want locking turrets or very stiff ones.
Capped turrets are one of the reasons I run the Horus Talon. I dont want them on my Mk6 tough I want locking turrets or very stiff ones.
Dunno, if the CMR-W reticle does work well, there might be a case for the base most affordable unit to borrow capped turrets from elsewhere on the line, but in general, I think that's dumb, since I'm assuming a LOT of the cost savings across the Mk6 line is coming from sharing parts between the 1-6x and 3-18x models, and one of the selling points of the CQBSS Mk8 is how those locking turrets work.
Relying strictly on secondhand information (from Stick and John McPhee) that wasn't an issue, and the windage and elevation were both .2mil per click.
The CMR-W reticle is growing on me, and if the TMR reticle isn't an ITMR (ideally with just an illuminated dot at the center) then it may well be 'the' reticle for this.
I think Gearscout did a very through review of the Mark 6, and the author had complaints about the CMR, which mirrored my view of the CMR on the Mark 4 1.5-5x.
http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2012/05/08/review-leupold-mark6-1-6x20mm-riflescope/
ICANHITHIMMAN
06-06-12, 18:05
Dunno, if the CMR-W reticle does work well, there might be a case for the base most affordable unit to borrow capped turrets from elsewhere on the line, but in general, I think that's dumb, since I'm assuming a LOT of the cost savings across the Mk6 line is coming from sharing parts between the 1-6x and 3-18x models, and one of the selling points of the CQBSS Mk8 is how those locking turrets work.
Relying strictly on secondhand information (from Stick and John McPhee) that wasn't an issue, and the windage and elevation were both .2mil per click.
The CMR-W reticle is growing on me, and if the TMR reticle isn't an ITMR (ideally with just an illuminated dot at the center) then it may well be 'the' reticle for this.
I have the TMR now in my MK4 M5 I like it but I am realy hoping for a Horus
MadAngler1
06-07-12, 22:35
I think Gearscout did a very through review of the Mark 6, and the author had complaints about the CMR, which mirrored my view of the CMR on the Mark 4 1.5-5x.
http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2012/05/08/review-leupold-mark6-1-6x20mm-riflescope/
Thank you very much for that informative review. Unfortunately, now I'm sad after reading it. :sad: I was really hoping for a short dot style set up. I guess I'll just have to go ahead and buy a S&B Short Dot to get what I want. The Swarvo 1-6x's exit pupil is just to small for my eyes on 1x magnification.
Thanks again.
Alaskapopo
06-09-12, 20:21
Thank you very much for that informative review. Unfortunately, now I'm sad after reading it. :sad: I was really hoping for a short dot style set up. I guess I'll just have to go ahead and buy a S&B Short Dot to get what I want. The Swarvo 1-6x's exit pupil is just to small for my eyes on 1x magnification.
Thanks again.
Really I have found it to be great.
Thank you very much for that informative review. Unfortunately, now I'm sad after reading it. :sad: I was really hoping for a short dot style set up. I guess I'll just have to go ahead and buy a S&B Short Dot to get what I want. The Swarvo 1-6x's exit pupil is just to small for my eyes on 1x magnification.
Thanks again.
I would look at it again when it goes to retail. God knows what they will change between now and then.
Exit pupil is a factor to eye box, not the only factor. I haven't gotten behind a Swaro 1-6x, but their popularity in 3-gun circles makes me think they work well up close and at distance.
I owned one of the newest generation Short Dot LEs, with a P3 reticle. I kept thinking for how much I had into it, I wish it had a little more magnification.
The S&B has also went up in price. IIRC, the 1-4x Short Dot LE is now set at a retail of about $2900, up from $2750.
I think much hub-bub is made about ranging with low power scopes. From practicing with my S&B, I can tell you that shit is really hard. Its not like you're looking through a 25x scope. It is my belief that the dots are better used as reference marks for hold off/overs, not so much ranging.
I'm still wanting a Leupold VX-6 with the Firedot SPR reticle. Less than 1/3 the price of the S&B, and much of the capability.
MadAngler1
06-09-12, 23:05
Really I have found it to be great.
I'm -9D with astigmatism. I shoot mostly with glasses while wearing Sordins. It is very difficult for me to get a good sight picture with the Swarvo, as compared to the accupoint I recently sold (9.5 vs 17 mm exit pupils). Even when I wear contacts it's hard. In both cases, I had either scope mounted in a LT-104 (I got to try the Swarvo on a friend's AR). Perhaps a higher scope mount would help a little, but I have no problem with the accupoint.
I agreewith bp7178's remark about ranging finding capabilities on 1-4x scopes. Holdovers are far more important. For me, the 4x is so I can hit those 8" plates more consistently at 100-200 yards. It definitely helps me, but the Aimpoint is definitely king 50 yards in.
It definitely sickens me how much S&B went up in price. I really wish Nightforce would make a short dot style scope. I love the NXS 1-4 I tried once, and I own a 2.5-10x32 that is a fine piece of glass for a SPR.
Failure2Stop
06-10-12, 09:12
Really I have found it to be great.
I too have found it to be one of the best on any magnified optic.
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MadAngler1
06-10-12, 20:30
I too have found it to be one of the best on any magnified optic.
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For most people it is the cure all. I'm not sure what advantage the Leupold Mark 8 has over the Swarvo Z6 1-6x. For me though, exit pupil is an issue. I really really wish I had better eyes. Trust me, I would buy the swarvo in a heart beat.
Is there a reason you're sticking with one optic solution?
Given your situation, a 2.5-10x Nightforce and a offset RDS may be the ticket...
Failure2Stop
06-10-12, 21:56
For most people it is the cure all. I'm not sure what advantage the Leupold Mark 8 has over the Swarvo Z6 1-6x. For me though, exit pupil is an issue. I really really wish I had better eyes. Trust me, I would buy the swarvo in a heart beat.
Unless your pupils dilate to some extreme size under normal lighting I don't see how exit pupil size effects sight through the optic other than eye-box constraints.
One other thing to consider, the more the magnification range the smaller the exit pupil will be at the high end, one problem I have seen with the 1-8x options.
Looks like the 3-18 is getting ready to drop so hopefully that means that the 1-6 isn't to far behind...
lifebreath
06-11-12, 09:32
I'm -9D with astigmatism. I shoot mostly with glasses while wearing Sordins. It is very difficult for me to get a good sight picture with the Swarvo, as compared to the accupoint I recently sold (9.5 vs 17 mm exit pupils). Even when I wear contacts it's hard. In both cases, I had either scope mounted in a LT-104 (I got to try the Swarvo on a friend's AR). Perhaps a higher scope mount would help a little, but I have no problem with the accupoint.
I've got the Swaro and an Accupoint, and the Accupoint does have a more forgiving eye-box. However, the Swaro is still pretty easy to get behind, and its glass, BRT reticle and other features I find hard to beat. A repeatable, easy-to-find cheek-weld makes a world of difference. That means either a low mount and standard stock, which is bad for glass wearers, or a higher mount with a PRS type adjustment for cheek weld.
I have astigmatism and shoot with glasses. The best setup in this case with the Swaro is a high mount (like a LaRue SPR at 1.93") combined with a PRS stock (or similar). This gives you a good heads-up position for looking through the correct part of your glasses lens and gives you an easy-to-find cheek weld for getting behind the scope quickly and accurately.
I was a little worried initially that the Swaro would be hard to get behind quickly, like in 3-gun, but that just hasn't materialized as an issue.
I shot Kyle's 1-6 at a VTAC class in April, its a nice optic, even in awkward shooting positions its easy to get behind. I didnt have a chance to run it up agaisnt my aimpoint close up, but I was shooting at 50 yards both eyes open no problem.
Failure2Stop
06-11-12, 15:56
I shot Kyle's 1-6 at a VTAC class in April, its a nice optic, even in awkward shooting positions its easy to get behind. I didnt have a chance to run it up agaisnt my aimpoint close up, but I was shooting at 50 yards both eyes open no problem.
Which reticle was he using?
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I shot Kyle's 1-6 at a VTAC class in April, its a nice optic, even in awkward shooting positions its easy to get behind. I didnt have a chance to run it up agaisnt my aimpoint close up, but I was shooting at 50 yards both eyes open no problem.
The Florida class? I was in that class. Who were/are you?
Rob, the class immediately before in Louisiana. He left ours for Florida.
F2S, unsure of reticle. It was illuminated 5.56 BDC. Class only had a 50y range, so I didn't get to shoot the BDC.
I'm looking at this or the Z6i, I want capped turrets, BDC reticle. The Z6i is just about perfect for me, except price.
I'd like to compare them side by side. I did so with the Z6 and Mk8 and they looked good, the mK8 was just too much scope.
MadAngler1
06-11-12, 19:57
Unless your pupils dilate to some extreme size under normal lighting I don't see how exit pupil size effects sight through the optic other than eye-box constraints.
One other thing to consider, the more the magnification range the smaller the exit pupil will be at the high end, one problem I have seen with the 1-8x options.
I'll correct myself and say "eyebox". I apologize for being ignorant:
http://snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2997452
http://www.shootingtimes.com/2011/01/03/optics_opticpupil_061907/
Eye relief does not appear to be an issue for me. Eyebox is, and like you said, it's more sensitive at higher magnifications. The Accupoint is fairly forgiving on 4x compared to most scopes, but lacks a BDC and useable night time visibility (as I found out the hard way at a Larry Vickers class in Michigan last year...Aimpoints rule the night hands down).
Regardless, the Z6 I've shot is fairly sensitive in the LT-104 mount. As another member pointed out, I should try it with a higher mount. I'll have to think about this. I don't even need a PRS stock to make it work most likely.
A two optic solution might work as well; I just don't know anyone around me who uses it. I rather try it before spending another $600 on an Aimpoint or Trijicon RMR + LaRue Mount.
After reading that write up on gear scout, Im a little upset they say it can't be used for speed up close at 1x
MadAngler1
06-13-12, 20:03
After reading that write up on gear scout, Im a little upset they say it can't be used for speed up close at 1x
That's the consequence of a first focal plane reticule, and only the use of an illuminated reticule.
Advantage Swarovski Z6i and S&B short dot. I guess you get what you pay for so to speak.
Failure2Stop
06-13-12, 20:36
That's the consequence of a first focal plane reticule, and only the use of an illuminated reticule.
While I disagree that the issue is with the focal plane, I do agree that the CMR reticle is not my first choice, and why I am more interested in the TMR and SPR/firedot reticles.
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http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2012/01/17/cant-touch-the-mark8-cqbss-check-out-the-leupold-mark-6-1-6x/
In this video Kyle Lamb from Viking Tactics says at 1x the CMR reticle is as faster as his eotech. I guess I will see when it arrives. Hopefully in a couple weeks.
I will try the 762 CMR because I want to run mine like a carbine with the ability to make longer precision shots without adjusting. I figure the BDC ret should be good out to 600y or so. I plan to get the Leupold custom dials whenever they are released for the Mark 6 as well.
I'm a bit confused here, some are talking about a VX-6 and others are referring to the Mark 6. Are these the same scope?
Also I have been looking at the VX-R Patrol Tactical on SWFA site and was wondering what the opinion on this scope was? A lot closer to what I could afford if it is a good scope.
Singlestack Wonder
06-24-12, 20:16
I'm a bit confused here, some are talking about a VX-6 and others are referring to the Mark 6. Are these the same scope?
Also I have been looking at the VX-R Patrol Tactical on SWFA site and was wondering what the opinion on this scope was? A lot closer to what I could afford if it is a good scope.
No. Two completely different scopes.
No. Two completely different scopes.
Does anyone have one yet? Updated thoughts?
What mount would you put a 34mm tube in? Noone makes one that I am aware aside from the one that comes from Leupold.
What mount would you put a 34mm tube in? Noone makes one that I am aware aside from the one that comes from Leupold.
Both LaRue and ADM make 34mm rings for their QD mounts.
Both LaRue and ADM make 34mm rings for their QD mounts.
Ah. I swore off LaRue tactical due to QC/QA issues. They still make good flashlight and VFG type stuff, but I certainly won't use it for an optic. The adjustments for ADM are sometimes a bit "coarse". I guess I'm just a "mount snob", but I really prefer to run Bobro on my stuff. I will wait until Andrew comes out with a 34mm mount before looking at 34mm scopes, so I guess what I meant to say, was that I cannot find a mount that I am happy with, in 34mm.
Bobro does indeed make a 34mm mount, when I emailed asking about it Andrew said that it is just not on their website yet. Here it is:
http://swfa.com/Bobro-Precision-Optic-34mm-Mount-P51893.aspx
Bobro does indeed make a 34mm mount, when I emailed asking about it Andrew said that it is just not on their website yet. Here it is:
http://swfa.com/Bobro-Precision-Optic-34mm-Mount-P51893.aspx
Very nice!
Do you know if the Leupold MK6 has the same bending issues at 1X that makes the VX-6 such a poor choice up close?
IT looks like a very nice optic. I love FFP, it looks daylight bright, I love the reticle. This might get me off the fence and into a 1X- variable optic.
What does it give up to the MK8, other than 2X ?
One review I read complains that the dot is 1MOA, and that is too small to use at 1X. Well, it looks like a horse-shoe with a 5MOA ID is also included. I can't see how THAT is too small to use 0-50 yards. I think it's darn near optimal. You need to hit something close and fast, it's great. Something further away? Turn the magnification up. Am I missing the point?
Early/mid July I was just told. This is from Leupolds LE program.
I have two GDI mounts on order in 34mm, one for a CQBSS, and now I'm waiting for the 1-6 mk 6 for the other one. These mounts have a good reputation so far.
http://www.gdiengineering.com/
Early/mid July I was just told. This is from Leupolds LE program.
What is the point of contact for them? Phone, email, etc...
http://www.leupold.com/tactical/fedmil-program/
Here's the link off of the webpage, you can sign up for the discount through it.
Is this program for local LE as well?
It should be, if not you can always join promotive.com and get the discount by signing up for the military/LE team.
It should be, if not you can always join promotive.com and get the discount by signing up for the military/LE team.
Thanks I'll check it out.
http://www.leupold.com/hunting-shooting/scopes/mark-6-riflescopes/mark-6-1-6x20mm-34mm-m6c1/
Its now up on Leupolds website. Hopefully they start shipping next week. The price on their site is $2439!:eek: Glad I already paid for mine through their LE program.
And still nary a decent reticle in the damn thing. What's with people thinking BDC's are the way to do? I don't think I've ever seen a BDC that matches anything I shoot regularly.
The M-TMR looks interesting but why not just continue the lower portion of the reticle into something with mil-based holds? Shoot, a Gen2XR with daylight-visible illumination or a SFP dot would probably be fantastic in one of these.
if it's that official seems the reviews should start pouring in.
Ya know, for the money/features, the VX6 is looking better and better....
The Gearscout review of the Mark 6 gives me pause, and at that price, its too expensive not to be happy with each and every feature/spec.
I can only hope Trijicon is paying attention...
Just got an email from their LE program dept.
The most recent word I received was they’re going into production late next week.* Once built and checked by QA, we’ll start shipping them (approximately 2 weeks later).* We have a large back order from all the pre-orders we have received.* We’ll ship in the order the orders were received.*
Ah. I swore off LaRue tactical due to QC/QA issues.
I know the wrong thread to discuss, but please explain
Alaskapopo
07-13-12, 00:50
Ah. I swore off LaRue tactical due to QC/QA issues. They still make good flashlight and VFG type stuff, but I certainly won't use it for an optic. The adjustments for ADM are sometimes a bit "coarse". I guess I'm just a "mount snob", but I really prefer to run Bobro on my stuff. I will wait until Andrew comes out with a 34mm mount before looking at 34mm scopes, so I guess what I meant to say, was that I cannot find a mount that I am happy with, in 34mm.
I have to say that my experience with Larue (lots of mounts) has been great and no issue with QC.
Pat
Ditto to what Pat said. I've had a boatload of LaRue mounts, and they have all been good to go.
Stay safe,
SRT
I've seen quite a few personally procured LT-104 mounts on Mk12's, and a couple of those really took a beating, but no issues. Use some blue loctite and the things are hard to beat. I like the ADM design more, but in simple parts count and simplicity the LT lockup is a bit nicer.
Singlestack Wonder
07-14-12, 11:06
Now back to the MK6 scope.....
Now back to the MK6 scope.....
Based on the custom VX6 reticles I've seen, the only likely viable reticles for the Mk6 are going to be the TMR and CMW-R, with the CMW still being to me a contract description optic intended for USA/USMC use, and I still don't know which direction they're going with the TMR - or if it is the one posted, then I'm back to saving up for the Swaro 6i.
It should take a rocket surgeon to figure out that the illuminated center cross of the old TMR reticle limited its efficiency at lower magnification, so I'm really unsure which genius decided that was the right approach for a 1x optic. If the M-TMR is the same one out of the CQBSS, I'm actually a bit unimpressed. That's a decent precision optic setup for use at the high end, but just tossing that reticle and same illumination scheme from before (as it appears on the promo information) into an optic with lower zoom seems, well, dumb.
I'm warming up to the idea of the CMRW, since it borrows heavily from the TA31 setup I already am comfortable with, but this is at a price point that finds the Leupold competing on features and price with a known quality unit in the form of the Z6i.
This is an article I found on the custom shop VX-6. Has anyone received one and tested yet?
http://opticsthoughts.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=139:leupold-vx-6-1-6x-illuminated-with-firedot-spr-reticle-and-mil-adjustments&catid=4:rifle-scope-reviews&Itemid=4
Singlestack Wonder
07-16-12, 08:22
This is an article I found on the custom shop VX-6. Has anyone received one and tested yet?
http://opticsthoughts.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=139:leupold-vx-6-1-6x-illuminated-with-firedot-spr-reticle-and-mil-adjustments&catid=4:rifle-scope-reviews&Itemid=4
This is a Leupold MK6 thread. Please start a VX-6 thread if you wish to discuss that product.
This is a Leupold MK6 thread. Please start a VX-6 thread if you wish to discuss that product.
I'd argue it's still relevant, even if only for extrapolation.
If the low power distortion remains an issue in the Mk6, that may be a major limitation for buyers. The other key takeway con listed was the reticle, which we've been discussing as a possible make or break for the mk6 optic as well, and it seems that issue still plagues the VX-6 sister optic already.
Failure2Stop
07-16-12, 14:56
The other key takeway con listed was the reticle, which we've been discussing as a possible make or break for the mk6 optic as well, and it seems that issue still plagues the VX-6 sister optic already.
I am far more interested in the TMR than SPR reticle. In fact, it's the only reticle that interests me in the Mk6 line.
I had asked the reviewer on TOS if bumping up the magnification on the VX6 would eliminate the edge distortion on 1x. He, (goes by Bigjimfish IIRC) wrote he hadn't explored that possibility.
On the 1.25-4x patrol, the little bit of magnification wasn't bad because it was consistent to the edges and not distorted. If I had to pick one, I'd rather have a 1.25x with no edge distortion than a 1x that's f'd on the edges.
The low-end exit pupil still makes me worry, be it the VX6 or the Mk6. The 17mm of the TR24 was very nice.
As I said before, the price tag on the Mk6 is way too high not to be completley happy with it.
I am far more interested in the TMR than SPR reticle. In fact, it's the only reticle that interests me in the Mk6 line.
Since there's no SFP dot in the Mk6 line, I could see the CMR-W reticle being a good choice, EXCEPT, they put a damn BDC in the thing instead of a real mil-based reticle. At 1x an illuminated horseshoe would be good, but once you crank it up to where you might actually be using holdovers, being load dependent just effs it all up for me. And I've never been a fan of illuminated FFP crosshairs at 1x. I'm just not fast with them. Probably a training issue more than anything but when you're paying for your own ammo sometimes you just don't get to shoot as much as you'd like.
I wish they'd put something like the Gen2XR in it with either a SFP dot, or a horseshoe around the center crosshairs so that some daylight visible illumination made it usable at 1x.
I pre-ordered the SWFA 1-6 instead. I hope I'll be happy with it. If not, wanna sell your Premier 1-8? :D
Alaskapopo
07-16-12, 20:45
Since there's no SFP dot in the Mk6 line, I could see the CMR-W reticle being a good choice, EXCEPT, they put a damn BDC in the thing instead of a real mil-based reticle. At 1x an illuminated horseshoe would be good, but once you crank it up to where you might actually be using holdovers, being load dependent just effs it all up for me. And I've never been a fan of illuminated FFP crosshairs at 1x. I'm just not fast with them. Probably a training issue more than anything but when you're paying for your own ammo sometimes you just don't get to shoot as much as you'd like.
I wish they'd put something like the Gen2XR in it with either a SFP dot, or a horseshoe around the center crosshairs so that some daylight visible illumination made it usable at 1x.
I pre-ordered the SWFA 1-6 instead. I hope I'll be happy with it. If not, wanna sell your Premier 1-8? :D
Its not that hard to work around a BDC in fact its about as easy as having to use a mil system in the first place.
Any more news? Seems like there's a few in the field..wish we could see a real in depth review already!
Was told by Leupold a few days ago my 762 cmr-w should ship towards the end of the month. Can't wait!
Any more news? Seems like there's a few in the field..wish we could see a real in depth review already!
http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2012/05/08/review-leupold-mark6-1-6x20mm-riflescope/
I posted this link earlier in the thread. Probably the best review I've ever read of a scope.
The M6 3-18x intrests me as well. Same weight as a 1-4x Short Dot LE and a bit under 2" longer. I just can't figure out how the illumination works, the only knob i'm seeing is the turrets and parallax adjustment.
I keep wanting a one in all scope, but I think I may be happier going with something line the 3-18x and a RDS on an offset.
Singlestack Wonder
08-18-12, 15:35
Since there's no SFP dot in the Mk6 line, I could see the CMR-W reticle being a good choice, EXCEPT, they put a damn BDC in the thing instead of a real mil-based reticle. At 1x an illuminated horseshoe would be good, but once you crank it up to where you might actually be using holdovers, being load dependent just effs it all up for me. And I've never been a fan of illuminated FFP crosshairs at 1x. I'm just not fast with them. Probably a training issue more than anything but when you're paying for your own ammo sometimes you just don't get to shoot as much as you'd like.
I wish they'd put something like the Gen2XR in it with either a SFP dot, or a horseshoe around the center crosshairs so that some daylight visible illumination made it usable at 1x.
I pre-ordered the SWFA 1-6 instead. I hope I'll be happy with it. If not, wanna sell your Premier 1-8? :D
The Mark 6 CMR-W reticle does having ranging capabilities via a scale on the left side of the reticle. I think it is a well thought out reticle design offering both BDC and ranging capabilities.
http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2012/05/08/review-leupold-mark6-1-6x20mm-riflescope/
I posted this link earlier in the thread. Probably the best review I've ever read of a scope.
The M6 3-18x intrests me as well. Same weight as a 1-4x Short Dot LE and a bit under 2" longer. I just can't figure out how the illumination works, the only knob i'm seeing is the turrets and parallax adjustment.
I keep wanting a one in all scope, but I think I may be happier going with something line the 3-18x and a RDS on an offset.
It looks like the 3-18x is something that will fit and compete deliberately with the S&B PMII optic - and to do so, it's going to be a touch heavy. I'm looking at one, but I suspect it won't replace my NXS 3.5-15x on a .308 rifle.
The ShortDot isn't exactly light, and I'm worried that either the quality of the glass won't be up to even NF standards, or the weight might be a touch lowball on the higher zoom Mk6.
It does seem like the 1-6x will be lighter than the short dot, but I still can't get over the objective lens size - I know it's not a huge limitation at unity zoom, but even at 4x in low light, I think more lens up front is still going to equate to more light; and if I'm stuck with a reticle that amounts to an evolved battery powered ACOG unit, why not go with the Trijicon that works fairly well w/ BAC up close and gives better FOV at zoom?
Singlestack Wonder
08-19-12, 12:16
It looks like the 3-18x is something that will fit and compete deliberately with the S&B PMII optic - and to do so, it's going to be a touch heavy. I'm looking at one, but I suspect it won't replace my NXS 3.5-15x on a .308 rifle.
The ShortDot isn't exactly light, and I'm worried that either the quality of the glass won't be up to even NF standards, or the weight might be a touch lowball on the higher zoom Mk6.
It does seem like the 1-6x will be lighter than the short dot, but I still can't get over the objective lens size - I know it's not a huge limitation at unity zoom, but even at 4x in low light, I think more lens up front is still going to equate to more light; and if I'm stuck with a reticle that amounts to an evolved battery powered ACOG unit, why not go with the Trijicon that works fairly well w/ BAC up close and gives better FOV at zoom?
If one doesn't need illumination while shooting from a dark area into a well lit area, then the Trijicon TR series are OK. The lack of a good reticle design still exists in the TR series.
lwrkeysfisher
08-21-12, 08:55
The M6 3-18x intrests me as well... I just can't figure out how the illumination works, the only knob i'm seeing is the turrets and parallax adjustment.
Per Leupold tactical rep (Steven) the current model is not illuminated. The illuminated version will be released sometime in the future. I asked twice to verify...
I've been playing with the VX-6 Multigun for a few weeks now, and will order the MK-6 TMR once they start shipping. I'll post a review once I have both in-hand.
Per Leupold tactical rep (Steven) the current model is not illuminated. The illuminated version will be released sometime in the future. I asked twice to verify...
I've been playing with the VX-6 Multigun for a few weeks now, and will order the MK-6 TMR once they start shipping. I'll post a review once I have both in-hand.
I had a feeling that was the case.
Can you post some quick thoughts on the eyebox of the VX6, as it compares to say the TR24 or another 1-4x?
lwrkeysfisher
08-21-12, 11:58
I do not have a 1-4 currently, but I tested it against my NF 2.5-10X32 last night and the eye box is significantly larger on the VX-6. I sold it awhile back, but I think it is about the same as my Accupoint TA24.
I also ran a few snap drills (@ 7yds) with the VX-6 and then a T1 on the same rifle, and the VX-6 was a bit slower (noticeably) on target. It became less noticeable though when I moved my nose to the charging handle---a position that is absolutely repeatable to me, but not comfortable with a magnified optic. That said, I'm using it as a hunting optic and am not worried about the speed difference. I will likely run it between 3-6X 90% of the time.
The NTCH thing makes sense, as the posistion is easily repeatable provided you have a mount that allows the optic to sit farther forward.
I have always wondered when talking about speed difference, how much can be attributed to weight when compared to a T1. Any scope with a mount will be many times more weight, and its all posistioned on top of the rifle.
Leupold REALLY needs to have someone proof read the crap they put on their website. There is way too much misinformation. Just looking through the spec sheets, metric and standard measurements reversed, and just other stuff that is flat out wrong. The VX6 is listed with a FOV at 1x 223' @ 100 yards. In metric, its 35.2m @ 100 meters. That math doesn't really jive.
http://www.leupold.com/hunting-shooting/whitepaper/vx-6-1-6x24mm-cds-illuminated-reticle-includes-metric/
http://www.leupold.com/tactical/whitepaper/mark-6-1-6x20mm-34mm-m6c1/
http://www.leupold.com/tactical/whitepaper/mark-8-1-1-8x24mm-cqbss-m5b1-front-focal/
Anymore information on the release of the MK6 1-6??? I have a mount that needs to get filled.
Singlestack Wonder
08-25-12, 13:23
Anymore information on the release of the MK6 1-6??? I have a mount that needs to get filled.
I spoke with Sportoptics last week and they said that dealers were still in the dark as far as hard delivery dates. The dates from Leupold keep changing.
From everything we've seen so far about the Mk6, it should be worth the wait.
Leupold email this morning...
The Mark 6 1-6x scopes have been recently pushed back on release date.
There is very large demand for this optic and we are working out the logistics for launching this product in the most efficient manner possible, to meet the needs of individual, commercial and government customers.
I have been updating individual Tactical customers on the probability of shipping closer to the end of the year.
:mad:
Got a letter from Leupold today. It was an invoice for my scope, only they shipped me the MK6 3-18 H58 and are trying to charge me the difference (over $500). It will arrive Monday....Got my hopes up....:(
Well see how this turns out...
bleaman225
10-05-12, 06:00
Got a letter from Leupold today. It was an invoice for my scope, only they shipped me the MK6 3-18 H58 and are trying to charge me the difference (over $500). It will arrive Monday....Got my hopes up....:(
Well see how this turns out...
Did the scope arrive?
Yes I got it over a week ago. Not too happy with Leupold. They shipped me that scope I had no use for because of a mistake on their end and billed me the over $500 difference. I called them and they emailed me a shipping label to send it back and said I would get a refund and could then reorder the 1-6 MK6 scope, loosing my place in line I had. I placed my order very early and was told I would be one of the first to get the scope. They said the computer is set up in a way where I could not get my place in line back, and they were not willing to give me a break on anything else because it was already out of their le/mil program.
Oh well, a little surprising, but it opened my eyes to do some more research. I will be ordering a CQBSS with H27 ret soon instead.
What makes you want the CQBSS now? The Horus reticle?
I like the idea of a 1-8x, but the exit pupil is pretty small...
I was really impressed with the glass and how robust the cqbss was. The bdc ret in the mk6 1-6 seems more suited for a recce type ar15, but the cqbss with extra magnification and horus ret seems like it takes more advantage of what my sr25 ecc is capable of.
I hoped Leupold would have made my situation right, but I am just thankful they offer a very generous le/mil program.
bleaman225
10-08-12, 15:26
Yes I got it over a week ago...<snip>
Sorry to hear about all that. I hope the CQBSS treats you well.
I saw on snipers hide that someone got their mk 6 1-6 through Promotive, so they are shipping, but I don't know to what extent.
Iron-sapper
11-03-12, 19:17
Heard from a reliable source that all of the recent production 1-6x Mark 6 were delivered to an Infantry Battalion at Ft Benning, GA for an Army test involving variable magnification optics as an alternative to Aimpoints and ACOGs for a general purpose optic.
This would explain why all of the retailers and direct sales are months in arrears on delivery.
Hope this leaks out through another source soon in order to confirm what many of us are waiting on.
controlledpairs2
11-27-12, 17:26
Just got an email from Leupold saying that mine has shipped. Will be here Monday, will post then!
TheDarkOne
11-29-12, 16:34
Just got an email from Leupold saying that mine has shipped. Will be here Monday, will post then!
Are you an exception, or are they finally shipping to the masses?
If one was to place an order today, when could they expect it?
DSG shows this in stock as of 2100.
http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/LEU115045.aspx
TheDarkOne
11-30-12, 10:59
If it is true they are in stock and shipping, why have we not heard anything on reviews? I would love to order one, but the issues raised in the thread have made me a little reluctant. Hoping feedback starts coming in soon.
If it is true they are in stock and shipping, why have we not heard anything on reviews? I would love to order one, but the issues raised in the thread have made me a little reluctant. Hoping feedback starts coming in soon.
If you take the time to poke around and do some research you will find a good amount of feedback. LAV actually got some time with one down in Fla and had a very positive first impression of it. His comments are in his Battle Rifle AAR.
I have seen, and heard overwhelming positive AAR's on it and I'm definitely in for a couple of them once they finally start to become readily available....
TheDarkOne
11-30-12, 11:52
If you take the time to poke around and do some research you will find a good amount of feedback. LAV actually got some time with one down in Fla and had a very positive first impression of it. His comments are in his Battle Rifle AAR.
I have seen, and heard overwhelming positive AAR's on it and I'm definitely in for a couple of them once they finally start to become readily available....
I've poked quite a bit, including this entire thread. While there has been a lot of good feedback, this article (http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2012/05/08/review-leupold-mark6-1-6x20mm-riflescope/) pointed out a few things that give me pause.
From the article...
FLIERS:
Unforgiving eye box illumination* (addressed in production)
Reticle undersized for use at 1x magnification
Circle-dot aiming requires shooter to come on distant targets from above, which feels awkward
Turret clicks could be more positive
Elevation locks at zero with no easy way to hold-under
I want to see what other say about these issues before placing an order. For this amount of money, there shouldn't be any concessions.
It's all of those things that kind of made me keep looking. The first one, the Christmas Tree illumination effect was stated as something that would be addressed in production. However, this doesn't seem to be the case as one 7.62 example still had the effect.
lwrkeysfisher
11-30-12, 12:45
Just got an email from Leupold saying that mine has shipped. Will be here Monday, will post then!
Which reticle?
I've poked quite a bit, including this entire thread. While there has been a lot of good feedback, this article (http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2012/05/08/review-leupold-mark6-1-6x20mm-riflescope/) pointed out a few things that give me pause.
From the article...
FLIERS:
Unforgiving eye box illumination* (addressed in production)
Reticle undersized for use at 1x magnification
Circle-dot aiming requires shooter to come on distant targets from above, which feels awkward
Turret clicks could be more positive
Elevation locks at zero with no easy way to hold-under
I want to see what other say about these issues before placing an order. For this amount of money, there shouldn't be any concessions.
Poke around TOS and you will find some AAR's. Also check out the LAV Battle Rifle thread in KAC's forum. There were several in that class and you should be able to get some feedback.
controlledpairs2
11-30-12, 15:45
Which reticle?
the 5.56 cmr-w
controlledpairs2
11-30-12, 15:46
Are you an exception, or are they finally shipping to the masses?
If one was to place an order today, when could they expect it?
not sure, ordered through their mil/leo program
Failure2Stop
11-30-12, 15:52
I shot a MK6 with the CMR-W reticle.
While I am not a fan of BDC reticles, it worked fairly well, though it is set up to be center dot zeroed at 200, which is not really my preference.
The dot at 1x isn't great for precision work on targets smaller than 6" from 75 to 150 meters. No issues at higher power where the dot hollows out.
I didn't have the same experience of having to drop down onto targets, so it might be a function of using different targets.
Illumination was a little flickery, which bolsters my preference for bold reticle design.
I had no issue with needing to hold-under as I was using the BDC rather than dialing in drop.
Adjustments had decent, positive tactile clicks.
I do agree that the reticle is a bit small for 1x use, but with the dot intensity set appropriately (no issues seen over 2 days of use in different light conditions other than the above stated occasional flicker) it was easy enough to use.
Reticle is junk at 1x. For that kind of coin you'd expect better and can get better. It would be a hell of a tossup between leupold and trijicon in a contest of worst modern reticle offerings.
lwrkeysfisher
12-01-12, 05:30
Reticle is junk at 1x. For that kind of coin you'd expect better and can get better. It would be a hell of a tossup between leupold and trijicon in a contest of worst modern reticle offerings.
Agreed. It's funny, they have flash dot technology but only offer it with the H58 reticle.
I think the VX-6 1-6 multigun scope I have now has good illumination, but again the reticle itself sucks.
I was told by a Leupold rep that the TMR reticle shrinks down to provide a nice dot at 1X---I'm not going take his word and be the first to try though.
Agreed. It's funny, they have flash dot technology but only offer it with the H58 reticle.
I think the VX-6 1-6 multigun scope I have now has good illumination, but again the reticle itself sucks.
I was told by a Leupold rep that the TMR reticle shrinks down to provide a nice dot at 1X---I'm not going take his word and be the first to try though.
They don't have flash dot technology. The term flash dot is proprietary to Schmidt and Bender. Just having a bright reticle doesn't equal flash dot. The flash dot is in simple terms a red dot sight built into a scope, even the fire dot as Leupold calls it, works differently and relies on fiber optics. Leupolds standard reticles, the CMR series etc, just look to use the standard method of reticle illumination as seen with every other scope on the market.
Was considering getting one of these but unless a different reticle and better illum come out I won't. Anyone know if the S&B 1-8 will ever be released?
lwrkeysfisher
12-01-12, 13:41
They don't have flash dot technology. The term flash dot is proprietary to Schmidt and Bender. Just having a bright reticle doesn't equal flash dot. The flash dot is in simple terms a red dot sight built into a scope, even the fire dot as Leupold calls it, works differently and relies on fiber optics. Leupolds standard reticles, the CMR series etc, just look to use the standard method of reticle illumination as seen with every other scope on the market.
Sorry, my post was kinda lazy and not clear. The FireDot is certainly not a Flash Dot. I was referring to the second focal plane 5MOA holographic dot in the Leupold MK-8 1.1-8 with H-58 reticle. It's been called a flash dot (metaphorically I'm sure) by multiple industry pro's, and from what I can tell it's very similar. This dot in the MK-6 line with a standard mil-dot reticle would be very appealing to me.
I saw on snipers hide that someone got their mk 6 1-6 through Promotive, so they are shipping, but I don't know to what extent.
I don't even see it on pro motive.
TheDarkOne
12-02-12, 12:16
Sorry, my post was kinda lazy and not clear. The FireDot is certainly not a Flash Dot. I was referring to the second focal plane 5MOA holographic dot in the Leupold MK-8 1.1-8 with H-58 reticle. It's been called a flash dot (metaphorically I'm sure) by multiple industry pro's, and from what I can tell it's very similar. This dot in the MK-6 line with a standard mil-dot reticle would be very appealing to me.
Does anyone know if they are going offer the H-58 in the MK-6? I'm beyond puzzled why they didn't have it as an option since they were using it in the MK-8 already.
With so many mixed reviews, I'm going to have to look through one before I can justify spending the money.
controlledpairs2
12-07-12, 12:31
I don't even see it on pro motive.
last time i was on promotive, it was there. they have the wrong picture up - i think the 3-18x was incorrectly pictured.
controlledpairs2
12-07-12, 12:35
sorry, i havent posted any pictures... work has been busy.
i had a quick opportunity to zero it at 50meters. it was a little frustrating trying to get green tip to group nice and tight.
the days have been overcast this week, so i have not had the chance to see if the illumination is bright enough to fight a sunny day. from what i see so far, i think it will be fine. can't say for sure how itll look on a super bright desert day.
i have noticed that there is a little distortion when i move around under 1x. i do not have a lot of experience w/ variable power optics... is this normal? it is very subtle, but i did notice it when im using it indoors. outside on the flat range, i didnt notice it at all.
TheDarkOne
12-07-12, 12:43
i have noticed that there is a little distortion when i move around under 1x. i do not have a lot of experience w/ variable power optics... is this normal? it is very subtle, but i did notice it when im using it indoors. outside on the flat range, i didnt notice it at all.
I have the same question. I've been playing around with a Vortex PST 1-4x24 and have noticed the same thing. I will even get two target images before my right eye takes over. It's not a huge deal, but definitely not the same a shooting my T1. I was hoping it would go away with the Mark VI, so it is a little disappointing to hear that. I'm curious is there is a variable that doesn't suffer from the same thing. Anyone?
I don't get that with my Z6i. But I also didnt get it with an MTAC, Vortex, or any of the other 1-x's ive tried. Maybe just my eyes.
The Burris XTR is not that good from what I recall in the illumination department. But it sounds like Leupold is getting better than the previously un usable illumination in the daylight.
Pat
Unless one is shooting at a black or dark target I really don't see the 'need' to use illumination in daylight conditions. So far I've not had any issues while using my Burris XTR when I've turned it on during daylight shooting....which I must say isn't very often, in fact I don't even keep a battery in it most of the time.
TheDarkOne
12-07-12, 15:16
Unless one is shooting at a black or dark target I really don't see the 'need' to use illumination in daylight conditions. So far I've not had any issues while using my Burris XTR when I've turned it on during daylight shooting....which I must say isn't very often, in fact I don't even keep a battery in it most of the time.
I agree. At least with the Vortex I'm experimenting with, its not really a light like the aimpoint, just a reticule that is red in color. In fact, one could argue it makes it worse since there is more contrast with black.
If the substentions and numbers on the vortex tmcq reticle were a little bolder, and it had partial anchors to te edge of the FOV, I'd be extremely happy with that reticle.
If the substentions and numbers on the vortex tmcq reticle were a little bolder, and it had partial anchors to te edge of the FOV, I'd be extremely happy with that reticle.
I'm absolutely in the same boat - if they can make it a bit easier to catch at 1x, and throw it in their 1-6x setup, that too would be a winning scope.
controlledpairs2
12-09-12, 12:35
took it for a spin today. was sunny and bright, and on the highest setting i had no issues with the illumination.
my times for first round -0 hits from 7-25yards were about .3 seconds slower than when i use an eotech. i think some practice will narrow that gap.
i did not notice the distortion today.
MadAngler1
12-09-12, 20:22
took it for a spin today. was sunny and bright, and on the highest setting i had no issues with the illumination.
my times for first round -0 hits from 7-25yards were about .3 seconds slower than when i use an eotech. i think some practice will narrow that gap.
i did not notice the distortion today.
Was the dot size at 1x adequate for your tastes? Would you call it a 1.5 MOA dot at 1x or more like 2-3? How is the eye box and exit pupil? Similar to a short dot or closer to the Swarovski 1-6x?
I'd like to hear some more reviews guys. I'm trying to decide what to put on my SCAR-H, but I'll probably wait for the SHOT Show before plopping down $2-3k on a scope.
TheDarkOne
12-10-12, 11:43
took it for a spin today. was sunny and bright, and on the highest setting i had no issues with the illumination.
my times for first round -0 hits from 7-25yards were about .3 seconds slower than when i use an eotech. i think some practice will narrow that gap.
i did not notice the distortion today.
That makes me feel a whole lot better.
controlledpairs2
12-13-12, 06:45
Was the dot size at 1x adequate for your tastes? Would you call it a 1.5 MOA dot at 1x or more like 2-3? How is the eye box and exit pupil? Similar to a short dot or closer to the Swarovski 1-6x?
Sorry brother, I don't have experience with either of those optics.
I feel reluctant writing b/c I cannot explain my experience with technical data, but I am very happy w it overall.
I was shooting idpa cardboard and the dot size was just fine. It's closer to a 4moa t-1 by feel.
The relief is forgiving at 1x and as long as my cheek weld is somewhere close I can find the dot / reticle fast. With illum on, I was about .1 second slower than eotech times at 7 yards. At 25 yards I was about .2 seconds slower. Without the illum, add .1-.2 seconds to those times bc I takes me a little longer to process the sight picture.
I can honestly say that for the 1500 I paid, I won't be buying a red dot anymore. The magnification just makes the rifle more versatile bc when we go to 300-400, my teammates can make hits but can't discriminate btw threats and non threats. At 400 they can't even find partial targets.
This will go on my duty rifle for the next deployment.
controlledpairs2
12-13-12, 06:51
Full disclosure, I saw Kyle lamb at a gun store near Bragg and someone was asking him about his YouTube videos and the mk6. He said that if he showed us his, we would want to buy one. He was so approachable and cool that i figured "if he likes it, it's probably pretty good"
I didn't do any research or check out the competition. Shame on me.
Failure2Stop
12-13-12, 08:31
Was the dot size at 1x adequate for your tastes? Would you call it a 1.5 MOA dot at 1x or more like 2-3? How is the eye box and exit pupil? Similar to a short dot or closer to the Swarovski 1-6x?
I'd like to hear some more reviews guys. I'm trying to decide what to put on my SCAR-H, but I'll probably wait for the SHOT Show before plopping down $2-3k on a scope.
The inner diameter of the horseshoe is 5 MOA, the outer diameter is 7 MOA, therefore the dot will appear to be about 7 MOA when dialed down.
I have been very happy with the eye relief and eye box, and every shooter that picks up one of our guns with it mounted is impressed (which means that I wind up answering almost as many questions about the optic as I do about our rifles).
I'm personally waiting to see if they will do a reticle resedign before I drop my personal $. The CMR-W is a decent reticle, I'm just trying to find perfection.
The inner diameter of the horseshoe is 5 MOA, the outer diameter is 7 MOA, therefore the dot will appear to be about 7 MOA when dialed down.
I have been very happy with the eye relief and eye box, and every shooter that picks up one of our guns with it mounted is impressed (which means that I wind up answering almost as many questions about the optic as I do about our rifles).
I'm personally waiting to see if they will do a reticle resedign before I drop my personal $. The CMR-W is a decent reticle, I'm just trying to find perfection.
OK, whats perfect from A-Z for you? Leupold is listening;)
MadAngler1
12-13-12, 22:39
The inner diameter of the horseshoe is 5 MOA, the outer diameter is 7 MOA, therefore the dot will appear to be about 7 MOA when dialed down.
Thanks for the replies F2S and controlledpairs2
The reticule is first focal plane, right? So that would mean at 1x, it would be 7/6 MOA (~1.16) right? It would only be 7 MOA at 6x magnification. With the illumination though, I was wondering how big in reality the horseshoe is at 1x, since the illumination tends to make the reticule lines a little thicker as the light scatters around the lines.
I'm going to have to find a dealer that will let me look through one and then ship it back for a full refund if I don't like it. I've read to many different things about this scope. Right now, it's between this scope and the S&B short dot for my SCAR-H. The Swarovski's eye box is to small for my -9D astigmatic eyes. :sad: I'm definitely waiting until after the SHOT Show to buy anything though. If a miracle occurs, Trijicon will attach a battery pack to and install a BDC type reticule in their 1-4x Accupoint that I love. The eyebox is huge (larger than the Short Dot's), and the scope is built like a tank. I guess I should have got off my rear end 1.5 years ago and bought a Short Dot before the prices went up, but I held out waiting for something newer/better.
Any idea which part of the TMR reticle illuminates?
—Andreas
The reticule is first focal plane, right? So that would mean at 1x, it would be 7/6 MOA (~1.16) right? It would only be 7 MOA at 6x magnification.
FFP optics the reticle does not change in size in relation to the target, the reticle and target magnify throughout the range. At 100yds a 1 moa dot is 1 moa regardless of what power. That means that at 6x the 1 moa dot (at 1x) is still 1 moa in relation to the target despite the increase in magnification. While it will appear 6x bigger, the target will also appear 6x bigger. That does not mean it becomes a 6 moa dot because all measurements are in relation to the target.
How accurate will one of these reticules be? Let's assume that one shoots a narrow range of commercial and M80 ball. I'm considering one for the SCAR-17, but I am in the air between the CMR-W and TMR version.
Failure2Stop
01-02-13, 14:42
How accurate will one of these reticules be? Let's assume that one shoots a narrow range of commercial and M80 ball. I'm considering one for the SCAR-17, but I am in the air between the CMR-W and TMR version.
I've shot sub-MOA with them.
The precision of a reticle is based on your ability to perceive the exact, consistent placement of the reticle on an aiming point.
I had some issues with the CMR-W reticle between 100 and 75 yards on a B-8 at 1x with no illumination. The issue was not that I could not hit the target, I simply had difficulty in being able to determine the exact location of the horseshoe/dot in the black bull. Optimal? No. Deal-breaker? No. But does show some room for improvement, improvement that I will be directly discussing with Leupold.
The inner diameter of the horseshoe is 5 MOA, the outer diameter is 7 MOA, therefore the dot will appear to be about 7 MOA when dialed down.
I have been very happy with the eye relief and eye box, and every shooter that picks up one of our guns with it mounted is impressed (which means that I wind up answering almost as many questions about the optic as I do about our rifles).
I'm personally waiting to see if they will do a reticle resedign before I drop my personal $. The CMR-W is a decent reticle, I'm just trying to find perfection.YOU will never find perfection. When you get close, your needs (or wants) will change and then it will no longer be your ideal glass.
MadAngler1
01-04-13, 21:11
Has anyone gotten more trigger time behind this scope?
I finally made it to the range with mine yesterday and I'm extremely happy. Mine sits on my SCAR 17S with a Bobro 34mm mount. I opted for the 7.62 CMR-W Reicle and it was dead nuts on at 100 yards with 150 grain federal American Eagle and NO adjsutment was needed.:D. This gun will serve as a Heavy Battle rifle so I will be feeding it M80 and 150 grain ammo. I took it out to 500 yards and easily made consistant hits on IDPA Steel. The glass is very bright and clear and the illumination is daylight lisable. At 1x I also thought it was a little flickery but honesly I don't use the illumination in daylight so it's not a issue.
All of my scopes are MOA so I need to get my head around MRAD but so far I love this optic. But Leupold needs help with the manuals they include with a 2k dollar optic. The generic ( cover all our shit ) manual is worthless for a "NEW" line of scopes. I am pissed that they have next to zero information about this scope specifically and in this department NightForce blows Leupold out of the water.
My one negative thing to say is that with my eyesight ( I wear reading glasses ) and No ocular focus on this scope I can't get a sharp focus.
There is no diopter adjustment on this?
Leupold just lost a sale. Ridiculous...:confused::mad:
That kind of makes it a non-starter...
S&B has a new scope line they are presenting at SHOT coming out called the STRATOS and they have a 1-5. I actually have all the paperwork on it in my rig and haven't read it yet. I guess I am headed to the rig to start reading. :p
I'm going to start a new thread on the Schmidt & Bender so as not to derail this thread about the useless 1-6 that was evidently only designed for people with perfect vision:confused:
So either the poster who wrote that the Mark 6 doesn't have an adjustable diopter is wrong, or all of the tech documents are wrong.
It should have the locking fast focus ring according to the documentation...
Gosh I hope he is wrong b/c I was kind of counting on the Leupold.
The write up on Defense Review even mentions adjusting the focus...
Singlestack Wonder
01-14-13, 20:15
Failure2stop:
Can you confirm as to whether the Mk6 1-6 has a diopter ring?
Failure2stop:
Can you confirm as to whether the Mk6 1-6 has a focus ring?
Focus ring and diopter ring are two different things. I am hoping for a diopter ring.
So either the poster who wrote that the Mark 6 doesn't have an adjustable diopter is wrong, or all of the tech documents are wrong.
It should have the locking fast focus ring according to the documentation...
You can focus the reticle but not the target. I called Leupold today to verify and be sure I wasn't missing something. I will check it out tomorrow and see if I can get a better result but up close ( under 10 yards ) this scope is not sharp.
I would guess the focus is set at 100m fixed. Just guessing.
What they are calling the fast focus ring is typically called the diopter adjustment.
I've never seen a low power scope with a side focus, parallax, adjustment...so that makes sense it wouldn't be present on the 1-6x.
The 3-18x Mark 6 does have a side focus, parallax, adjustment...but lacks an illuminated reticle.
Singlestack Wonder
01-15-13, 05:54
Focus ring and diopter ring are two different things. I am hoping for a diopter ring.
Yep, diopter.
Singlestack Wonder
03-13-13, 13:51
In regards to previous illumination/eyebox issues, I spoke with Leupold today and they confirmed that MK6 units manufactured in 2013 with a serial # ending in "Y" have the updated illumination.
So does that mean that they will upgrade us poor bastards with the older version?
Damn I forgot to post what I was able to work out on my focus problem. I'm all good now that I actually grabbed the threaded section at the eye piece and rotated it counter clockwise. My dumb ass was spinning the thin locking ring :rolleyes:. The owners manual does a piss poor job of explaining this and I could not find anything on the Website. I own NightForce scopes so I was clueless.
So does that mean that they will upgrade us poor bastards with the older version?
It's why I wait at least 1 year before jumping into the deep end on any new kit. It sucks to buy something, and then have them update it to what it should have been to begin with 6 months later...
The scopes nice but for 1800-1900 bucks it should give me a reach around. :eek:
Singlestack Wonder
03-14-13, 18:06
Leupold will upgrade the illumination unit. Turn around is ~18 days.
I'll give them a call tomorrow and see what I need to do to return mine for the upgrade. The Illumination is sub-par for a scope in this price range. My buddies Patrol rifle scope for 500 bucks illumination works better.
Does anyone have this scope w the TMR reticle?
I have a vx6 multigun on order and am debating switching it to the mark 6. It will ride on my 6.8 most of the time.
That Guy v2.0
03-24-13, 23:13
For those who live in the Phoenix AZ area and would like to check one out Scottsdale Gun Club has 2 of these scopes. One each of the TMR and CMR-W. Both serial numbers end in X so they will not have the updated illum. I was able to take the CMR outside and check the illummination in bright daylight and thought it was great but not aimpoint bright. I have no experience with variable power optics and really have nothing in that class to compare it to though so take that comment with a grain of salt.
I think that if one were able to get the mil/le or promotive deal on this optic with the updated illumination it would be a fantastic deal.
ordered one w the TMR reticle today. I had a vx6 1-6 multigun on backorder w/ no ETA in sight so i switched to the Mark 6.
This is the most ive ever spent on a scope and im looking forward to it! :happy:
Rickenbacker53
03-31-13, 12:41
You love the TMR in the Mark6 : It's a great scope: WHich mount did you order?
Rickenbacker53
03-31-13, 12:42
Does anyone have this scope w the TMR reticle?
I have a vx6 multigun on order and am debating switching it to the mark 6. It will ride on my 6.8 most of the time.I bought and received a Mark 6 TMR from Sport-optics a month ago:
I have an american defense mount alrdy, just had to get the larger rings.
Scope will be here tomorrow, im pumped!
How does the illumination work on the Mark 6 with the TMR, what part of the reticle is illuminated?
Anyone got a pic of it?
I have the TMR in a 2.5-8x32 TS-30A2 and its the balls.
http://www.cstactical.com/optics/rifle-scopes/leupold/mark-6-mark-8/mark-6-1-6x20mm-34mm-illum-ffp-1354.html
I got the scope today. Amazing piece of glass.
Just a little side note, a lot of people have been complaining about the reticule not staying lit when you eye is not exactly centered. This is the case with mine as well. I called Leupold and was told its the way the scope is made and there is no difference in serial numbers ending in X or Y as many online are lead to believe.
The technician said this helps to make sure you are lined up w/ center.
Singlestack Wonder
04-01-13, 21:05
I got the scope today. Amazing piece of glass.
Just a little side note, a lot of people have been complaining about the reticule not staying lit when you eye is not exactly centered. This is the case with mine as well. I called Leupold and was told its the way the scope is made and there is no difference in serial numbers ending in X or Y as many online are lead to believe.
The technician said this helps to make sure you are lined up w/ center.
Interesting. Different technicians, different answers. I'll try Leupold again tomorrow to see if we get yet another different answer.
FYI, a member on "SnipersHide" received an RMA and was told to ship the scope in for an illumination module upgrade when they asked about the reticle issue.
Cool. Im going to send it in, for $1800 the reticule should stay lit whether its ffp or not. The tech also tried to tell me its because its an ffp scope.
Leupold emailed me back and said its the way the scope is made and that there is no difference between X and Y serial numbers.
Its a bit annoying to say the least but im sure they did it for a reason. I would prefer it to stay lit no matter where my eye is as i tend to take shots on the move and am not always in the center of the eye box.
Singlestack Wonder
04-02-13, 13:42
I spoke with them today and got a different answer.
At this point, I am going to wait to hear from the person at Snipershide as to how the "updated illumination" works compared to their previous version. I'll provide an update then.
This scope has great features all around and once this reticle issue/non-issue is figured out, I will be purchasing one.
lwrkeysfisher
04-02-13, 16:18
I spoke with someone at Leupold today in regards to changing the reticle in my VX6 1-6 Multi-gun; he was a bit of a jerk and clearly not very interested in helping me. I would not make a decision based upon something one of their CS reps told me...
Ya they pretty much treated me like an idiot.
Id like to hear from some other ffp illuminated scope owners to know if its the same w other scopes.
Email them, they get the question to the right person as opposed to someone who has to memorize a zillion different scope and reticle combinations.
VX-6's have second focal plane reticles set up for 30mm tubes and firedot technology.
IMHO if they put a real mil-dot equipped reticle (IE with 1 and 2 mil hashes) in the VX-6, it'd be a much better choice than the overpiced MK6 line. The MK6 reticle is terrible for CQB and the firedot illumination technology on the VX-R and VX-6 absolutely smoke it. You can get a USO 1-8X scope for about the same price as the MK6, and certainly less than the MK8, with the same old generation illumination technology, a couple hundred more gets you a flash dot on the SR8 and the same cash as what a MK8 would set you back gets you BOTH kinds of illumination.
VooDoo6Actual
04-03-13, 09:49
Shot a OBR w/ the CMR-W 7.62 ret.
Really nice optic, thumbs up for me.
I got mine mounted up and did some redneck bore sighting this morning. The more I mess around with it the more I like it.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p500/ducatiman1098s/006_zps66489f33.jpg
At lunch I took some pictures in the backyard with the Mk6's and the CQBSS
I used a M110K2 with Mk6 1-6x CMR-W (7.62)
my personal SR-25 ECC with Mk8 CQBSS
SR-25 ECR upper with Mk6 3-18x H58
H36 Leupold M151 at 40x for baseline - target is a BFG Plate Carrier
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Reticle%20Pictures/Reticles004_zps85fdeb57.jpg
Mk6 3-18x H58 at 3x
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Reticle%20Pictures/Reticles006_zps5168931d.jpg
at 18x
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Reticle%20Pictures/Reticles007_zpsab413a45.jpg
Mk6 1.1-6x CMR-W at 1x
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Reticle%20Pictures/Reticles019_zps4f2e3142.jpg
at 6x
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Reticle%20Pictures/Reticles021_zps199376e7.jpg
CQBSS at 1x
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Reticle%20Pictures/56ec001f-ce32-4cb8-9658-96e8f2edead9_zpsc48bfbce.jpg
at 8x
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Reticle%20Pictures/Reticles018_zpsa47ff411.jpg
I did not use the 1-6c or 1-8x with the illumination as 1) I ran out of time at lunch (plate carrier is still in the yard) 2) I can't seem to get good pictures thru the scopes with the iPhone.
I will note the pictures at 1x are not a good representation - as I can see the reticles easily - and it was farily easy to center the crosshair on the 3-18x on the vest and pick it up -- when I have some time I will try with my bigger camera -- I may just mount the optics to a chunk of Pic rail on my spotting scope to better steady them - the guns where braced on the spotting scope - so not a great deal of stability to take pictures.
Failure2Stop
04-03-13, 16:29
Kev, what was the distance, about 60-65 meters?
Rickenbacker53
04-03-13, 18:11
Which mount are you using: I purchased a Bobro for mine: They sent a 20MOA can't by mistake: I am hoping they'll do something: I was promised they'd call me back. WHich was 3 days ago. Hoping I don't have to sell it cheap to afford a New mount: The place has a good reputation so hoping they come through for me:
I paced it out to around ~100m - but due to terrain it may have been only 70m (my days of having an accurate foot pace are long gone).
123 paces - my old pace for 100m was 126 - but I am fatter, slower and lazier these days.
If I had a LRF I would tell you right away.
Failure2Stop
04-03-13, 20:18
I paced it out to around ~100m - but due to terrain it may have been only 70m (my days of having an accurate foot pace are long gone).
123 paces - my old pace for 100m was 126 - but I am fatter, slower and lazier these days.
If I had a LRF I would tell you right away.
I just did a quick Mil relation.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
when you see my backyard - you will know why I'm doubting my own pacing numbers.
Interesting. Different technicians, different answers. I'll try Leupold again tomorrow to see if we get yet another different answer.
FYI, a member on "SnipersHide" received an RMA and was told to ship the scope in for an illumination module upgrade when they asked about the reticle issue.
Update,
I was given an RMA by Reed at Leupold and a shipping label to return my Mark 6 after reading this and similar posts. I took my scope off my SCAR 17S removed it from the Bobro mount boxed it up and shipped it back on the 18th of March and was told that it would be completed in 14 days. On the 20 th I received an email from Leupold indicating that they had my scope and it would be complete in 18 days. Today Reed called to inform me that he took my scope to engineering and they checked everything and my scope is in spec and that there is NO Such illumination module upgrade and that whom ever is spreading that rumor they are incorrect. He attempted to explain something about the 1st focal plane prism being the issue with illumination flicker and that it's common on all scopes like this. Bottom Line...... According to Reed at Leupold there is NO Such Illumination upgrade for the Mark 6 and I will be emailing him the link to this thread so that Leupold can see what's being said about this scope.
I wasted my time and I will have to waste ammo to re-zero my rifle because I got FUD on the internet.
SO BEWARE :rolleyes:
In regards to previous illumination/eyebox issues, I spoke with Leupold today and they confirmed that MK6 units manufactured in 2013 with a serial # ending in "Y" have the updated illumination.
Did you by chance get a name of the CS rep you spoke with? Reed at Leupold says this is Bullshit and a LIE....
doriwoogie
04-04-13, 21:09
I wasted my time and I will have to waste ammo to re-zero my rifle because I got FUD on the internet.
SO BEWARE :rolleyes:
Tzoid, if ammo weren't so scarce and my reserves so low, I'd send you a box of ammo (to re-zero) for being the guinea pig and clearing up the issue. Unfortunately, it will just be a hearty "Thank you"!
I'm glad to help others and the zeroing is not a big deal. I'm just a little ticked that Leupold seems to be telling customers different stories about the illumination on the Mark 6....... I specifically had the conversation with Reed before he issued the RMA and he only disputed the fact there was an issue after he had my scope. The information in this thread indicates that someone at Leupold is "upgrading" scopes because of a known issue. My scope is being returned with no such "upgrade".
:confused:
I got the same answer from Leupold and there is no upgrade. Its the way the scope is made.
In regards to previous illumination/eyebox issues, I spoke with Leupold today and they confirmed that MK6 units manufactured in 2013 with a serial # ending in "Y" have the updated illumination.
So where does this come from???
Singlestack Wonder
04-05-13, 08:38
So where does this come from???
It comes from a conversation I had with an individual when I called Leupold and asked for Technical Support. I asked him as to whether released models had the illumination issues as previously found when the scope was introduced. The answer was, "Yes". He went on to state that current production models with a serial # ending in "Y" had an updated illumination module. A member over at Snipers Hide call Leupold and was told the same thing. They were issued an RMA to upgrade the module. The scope arrived on March 26th. When the op receives the scope back, we will receive an update.
Stay tuned......
Singlestack Wonder
04-05-13, 08:42
I'm glad to help others and the zeroing is not a big deal. I'm just a little ticked that Leupold seems to be telling customers different stories about the illumination on the Mark 6....... I specifically had the conversation with Reed before he issued the RMA and he only disputed the fact there was an issue after he had my scope. The information in this thread indicates that someone at Leupold is "upgrading" scopes because of a known issue. My scope is being returned with no such "upgrade".
:confused:
Curious. Why did Reed issue an RMA for return of the scope if there were no known issues?
Singlestack Wonder
04-05-13, 08:55
Update:
According to the op at Snipers Hide, although he had asked Leupold about the issue and was issued an RMA to send it in, once there, Leupold called and told him that there were no issues and that the X and Y serial number relating to an illuminated module upgrade was not true. They also told him that they had informed all technicians that there was not an issue. It appears that different persons at Leupold were saying different things as well as some issuing RMA's to perform this non-necessary upgrade.
At the end of the day, while the scope has potential, Leupold is still Leupold.
Thanks for checking over at Sniper's Hide. It looks as if the exact same thing happened to me and someone at Leupold has caused a shit load of confusion. I'm not sure what the story is with Reed but I emailed him this thread to he and his supervisor can read through the posts and maybe he will expalin why he issued me an RMA when I initially called and explained that "I heard that there was an illumination upgrade for my scope" Frustrating but I learned something from the experience.
While I have no affiliation with Leupold I can share some insights.
Early (what I would call pre-production scopes) had some issues with the illumination.
As far as I know the only folks who got those where folks who had them prior or at SHOT 2012.
Kyle Lamb being one - and I got one from Leupold at SHOT 2012 for a demo gun that was being evaluated by Foreign SOF unit.
And FYI that unit loved the sight even with that issue.
I am sure that no civilian scopes were sent out before Leupold had re-designed the illumination. However I think that aspect grew legs on the internet. Leupold delayed shipping of the sights commercially (and to Big Army) until they had that aspect fixed.
Any FFP illuminated scope will have less 'give' in the head position due to the fact that light can only be directed in some ways and still give a true picture.
Thanks for the input Kevin... This sounds like someone shared an early experience with the illumination and the story grew legs and ended at "Leupold is upgrading scopes"
I will get mine back soon and move on...
patriot_man
04-06-13, 17:21
I'm in the market for a 1-6x, are there any aspects of the Mark6 that outperforms the Swaro Z6 other than price?
The numbers are close in many categories but the Swaro seems to have more favorable specs.
Edit: Are there any other FFP, daylight visible, 1-6x options?
http://www.laruetactical.com/scope-us-optics-sr8-1-8x30-mm-and-qd-scope-mount
For the same price as the swaro.
http://www.laruetactical.com/scope-us-optics-sr8-1-8x30-mm-and-qd-scope-mount
For the same price as the swaro.
That scope can be had for less but consider it weighs 1.5 lbs
Failure2Stop
04-08-13, 13:44
I'm in the market for a 1-6x, are there any aspects of the Mark6 that outperforms the Swaro Z6 other than price?
The numbers are close in many categories but the Swaro seems to have more favorable specs.
Edit: Are there any other FFP, daylight visible, 1-6x options?
I have been informed that the Mk6 is far superior in shock testing.
I have not seen the raw data, but it comes from a source that I trust.
They are sort of two sides of the same coin; similar outcome by different methods of approach. Until the Mk6 1-6x, there really wasn't a contender to the Swaro.
MadAngler1
04-08-13, 14:47
I have been informed that the Mk6 is far superior in shock testing.
I have not seen the raw data, but it comes from a source that I trust.
They are sort of two sides of the same coin; similar outcome by different methods of approach. Until the Mk6 1-6x, there really wasn't a contender to the Swaro.
So you think the Swarvo would be pimp slapped by the SCAR 17? The Swarvo is more of a hunting scope anway. I wonder how the Kahles 1-6x would do.
Failure2Stop
04-08-13, 14:53
So you think the Swarvo would be pimp slapped by the SCAR 17? The Swarvo is more of a hunting scope anway. I wonder how the Kahles 1-6x would do.
I can't really say one way or the other.
I know guys that use the Swaro for 3-gun and other endeavors on the 17 and haven't heard of them crashing one. Doesn't mean that it hasn't happened though.
My biggest take away is that the Leupy is a little heavier for a reason, and whether or not that is a factor in your decision is up to you on how much abuse you expect your optic to absorb.
MadAngler1
04-09-13, 21:45
I can't really say one way or the other.
I know guys that use the Swaro for 3-gun and other endeavors on the 17 and haven't heard of them crashing one. Doesn't mean that it hasn't happened though.
My biggest take away is that the Leupy is a little heavier for a reason, and whether or not that is a factor in your decision is up to you on how much abuse you expect your optic to absorb.
Thanks for the info.
It's interesting that you mention weight as a factor. The Mark 6 is 17 oz, and the Kahles 1-6x is 16.9 oz. No doubt, Leupold's 34 mm tube is going to weigh more than Swarovski's Z6i 1-6x built on 30 mm tube (16.2 oz per Swarov's website). For comparison, Nightforce's 1-4x is 17 oz and 2.5-10x32 is 19 oz. S&B's 1.1-4x24 short dot is ~20 oz. All are fairly close. I've yet to hear of a Nightforce failing, but they are able to keep their compact scopes fairly light all things being equal. I'm guessing the Short Dot's extra 3 oz in weight has to do with the short dot illumination module and the heavier turrets.
It would be interesting to see a randomized controlled trial investigating how these optics would hold up to abuse. I think internal construction and the quality of those components may play a bigger role than weight alone.
I saw a review(youtube) on the Hide, and there was some "play" in the elevation knob? is that the case? and if so does it cause any errors? or issues?
Overall the scope looks quite robust and practical.
No play in the two I have.
Mine is rock solid with very positive "CLICKS" No play in the turrets at all.
I saw a review(youtube) on the Hide, and there was some "play" in the elevation knob? is that the case? and if so does it cause any errors? or issues?.
My 1-6 has no issues with the turret. The clicks are distinct and precise. The 3-18, however, does have some play in the elevation turret when going down.
I saw a review(youtube) on the Hide, and there was some "play" in the elevation knob? is that the case? and if so does it cause any errors? or issues?
Overall the scope looks quite robust and practical.
Just received mine yesterday, and no play at all. Rock solid construction. The glass is even nicer than my VX6 1-6. I would put it on par with the glass in my IOR 1.5-8 which if I am not mistaken is schott glass(I do like IOR scopes)
Just a "quick" question for clarification? the turrets on the 1X6 and the 3X18 are different? The pictures I looked at on the Leupold site "appear" to be the same, but I'm thinking they are not. I'm thinking now the Youtube video was the 3X18 turrets? Thanks
Just a "quick" question for clarification? the turrets on the 1X6 and the 3X18 are different? The pictures I looked at on the Leupold site "appear" to be the same, but I'm thinking they are not. I'm thinking now the Youtube video was the 3X18 turrets? Thanks
I can take a pic of the 1-6 and post if you wish
Thanks, I have a feeling the 1X6 are lower profile? on the Leupold Promotive site all the scopes appear to have the same turrets, which are the tall ones. Thanks
Thanks, I have a feeling the 1X6 are lower profile? on the Leupold Promotive site all the scopes appear to have the same turrets, which are the tall ones. Thanks
I haven't seen the larger one in person, but the mk6 turrets are def. low profile.
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a220/Cobalt_/bikesandstuff062.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/Cobalt_/media/bikesandstuff062.jpg.html)
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a220/Cobalt_/bikesandstuff063.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/Cobalt_/media/bikesandstuff063.jpg.html)
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a220/Cobalt_/bikesandstuff064.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/Cobalt_/media/bikesandstuff064.jpg.html)
Thanks, that confirms my suspicions, nice looking scope BTW!
Just to add, these are the "squeeze" turrets, I think, I see the small pads in one of the pics?
Thanks, that confirms my suspicions, nice looking scope BTW!
Just to add, these are the "squeeze" turrets, I think, I see the small pads in one of the pics?
Yes, they are. They feel nice and solid. I am not use to the squeeze turrets, but it seems like it will work well.
Looks like the Leupold site was using the 3X18 pic for all of it's Mark 6 scopes, confusion over. Thanks, BTW what reticle did you go with?
Looks like the Leupold site was using the 3X18 pic for all of it's Mark 6 scopes, confusion over. Thanks, BTW what reticle did you go with?
7.62 CMR and it is daylight visible.
Here is the reticle, sorry for the bad pic.
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a220/Cobalt_/bikesandstuff.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/Cobalt_/media/bikesandstuff.jpg.html)
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