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View Full Version : I'm putting 500 rounds through my J-frame in february



skyugo
01-18-12, 02:24
Sounds low, from an automatic shooter's standpoint, but that's the goal. I've only fired this gun about 400 times in total, which I'm a bit ashamed to admit as it gets frequent carry. I'm going to load some minimal powder rounds with HS6. (i have a pound of it lying around)
have some 125 grain plated bullets coming from midway, along with shell plate, dies etc.

Hopefully between this and dryfire i'll reach somewhat of a proficiency plateau.

LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-18-12, 04:14
I commend you on this, Im sure your hand and fingers wont forgive you for some time. This is really a tough pistol to put alot of rounds through, but that why dryfire is so key. If only I could find cheap .38spc rounds.

skyugo
01-18-12, 09:09
I commend you on this, Im sure your hand and fingers wont forgive you for some time. This is really a tough pistol to put alot of rounds through, but that why dryfire is so key. If only I could find cheap .38spc rounds.

I'm gonna hopefully be able to cook up something low recoil on the reloading press.. I was shooting some HSM and "american tactical" ammo, 11 bucks a box, and the recoil was absolutely brutal.

Lost River
01-18-12, 17:58
No better way to get good with it than getting out there and working on the fundamentals with your J frame.

I bet you will be a heck of a lot better J frame shooter around March 1st !

This reminds me that I need to load up some practice loads for mine too. 148 grain wadcutters make some nice clean holes in papers :)

Axcelea
01-18-12, 19:00
Doing 125 a week or something like the whole 500 at once?

skyugo
01-18-12, 22:43
Doing 125 a week or something like the whole 500 at once?

125 a week. i don't need nerve damage. :eek:

love carrying this gun, gonna learn to love shooting it by god. :o

KCBRUIN
01-19-12, 12:53
Which J frame? I have a 340 and I'd rather get kicked in the junk repeatedly then shoot 500 .357 rounds through it.

Smash
01-19-12, 13:05
Which J frame? I have a 340 and I'd rather get kicked in the junk repeatedly then shoot 500 .357 rounds through it.

I bought a 340pd as a "want" and sold it to put more money towards "need" guns but it was definitely no joke with recoil firing .357. I doubt many people here will put the effort into their j frame that you are.(Skyugo)

KCBRUIN
01-19-12, 13:11
I shot two cylinders of Hornady Critical Defense out of mine shooting pretty fast with a reload, and thought I broke my hand. Had a large dark purple and black bruise on my palm. :(

I still love it, my little noisy cricket.

Smash
01-19-12, 13:40
I went through 15 rounds of the same ammunition, not rapid fire, but all in succession and it definitely made my hand feel like I fouled off a high inside fast ball off an aluminum tee ball bat.

AngeredKabar
01-19-12, 15:42
Here's my 642 after 150 rounds back in November.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Ji50hZN8bO4/TsGFOYf5g1I/AAAAAAAAALU/Iz2wGeg2Y_E/s640/IMG00259.jpg

My thumb healed a few weeks ago, but it sure was a fun time and I learned a few things.

Suwannee Tim
01-19-12, 16:57
Beware of a couple of things. Don't use jacketed bullets for light loads. Plated are OK. A jacketed bullet can decelerate in the bore and the core can leave the jacket behind, in the bore. I have seen this. If the loads are too light the bullet can stick in the bore. If you are shooting fast you may pull the trigger again even though you noticed the lack of recoil.

Why don't you get a J frame 22?

Axcelea
01-19-12, 18:58
125 a week. i don't need nerve damage. :eek:

love carrying this gun, gonna learn to love shooting it by god. :o

I can see that easily enough if its in the 38 special range and not something like full power 357 mag. Only have had mine for little more than a month and so far have done 100 rounds of 158 grain 38 special in a trip and for the most part just felt it solidly thumping my palm with some tenderness the next day so I wouldn't have any probs doing that.

williejc
01-19-12, 19:29
I've been an active snub shooter for 30 years and fire double action only. The j frames are accurate revolvers, and after you learn to shoot them, your proficiency will surprise yourself and others. Remember to have a toothbrush handy to clean under extractor star to prevent dragging caused by debris.

zacii
01-19-12, 20:32
Wow, 500 rounds.

I can only stand 15 or 20 rounds in one j frame session.

Let us know how it goes.

Evil Colt 6920
01-19-12, 20:41
I'll admit, I SUCK with my 357 and really need to step up the round counts. The cost of ammo has held me back and I rarely carry it anyway. Its more of a nightstand / glovebox gun. However... I am the proud new owner of a Hornady LNL press so hopefully I'll be shooting it a lot more soon. Sure am glad Ive been saving the brass:)

skyugo
01-20-12, 02:11
It's a 642, so DAO, 38 special, stainless cylinder/alloy frame. So maybe the softest shooting airweight available.
I've done a 135 round range session before. I used some PMC and independance brand ammo, 125 grain jacketed i believe. Fairly soft shooting.
I have some 110 grain hornady critical defense i've fired a few of as well, being the lighter bullet they don't kick too badly...

The cheap ass 158 grain "american tactical" and HSM ammo is just brutal. I bought it for the low price, and honestly I think it's loaded well outside of SAAMI specs. ouch.

I have 500 rainier ballistics flat point 125 grain bullets ready to go. I'll be loading with CCI #400 primers and HS6 powder. With any luck I'll begin this weekend (guess that makes it not technically a february thing)

The plan is basically to work through a few cylinders of low ready to fire single shot

low ready to double/triple taps

then do some pocket holster work.

probably all inside of 20 feet or so at 1/3 scale IPSC guys.

Anybody have a good video on pocket draws?

skyugo
01-20-12, 02:13
I've been an active snub shooter for 30 years and fire double action only. The j frames are accurate revolvers, and after you learn to shoot them, your proficiency will surprise yourself and others. Remember to have a toothbrush handy to clean under extractor star to prevent dragging caused by debris.

cool.. yeah it seems like a tight little gun really. the frame is very rigid, and it locks up pretty nicely. I'll bring my USGI cleaning kit brush with me.

QuickStrike
01-20-12, 06:56
Maybe wear some batting gloves?

Will you be cleaning during the 500 rounds? I'm wondering how crud build up will affect the barrel/cylinder gap and trigger pull/function as a result.

skyugo
01-20-12, 11:33
Maybe wear some batting gloves?

Will you be cleaning during the 500 rounds? I'm wondering how crud build up will affect the barrel/cylinder gap and trigger pull/function as a result.

yeah it's a freqently carried gun, it will be cleaned after every range trip. I feel no need to "torture test" devices that my life may someday depend on.

skyugo
01-20-12, 12:50
Beware of a couple of things. Don't use jacketed bullets for light loads. Plated are OK. A jacketed bullet can decelerate in the bore and the core can leave the jacket behind, in the bore. I have seen this. If the loads are too light the bullet can stick in the bore. If you are shooting fast you may pull the trigger again even though you noticed the lack of recoil.

Why don't you get a J frame 22?

Good info on the bullet seperation thanks. I'm probably going to be using plated bullets only. I don't plan to go too far below the minimum published data.

I'd like a 22 j-frame, but $$$. Also i've had only limited success training for centerfire shooting with 22's.

yugolover
01-20-12, 17:04
You might also try different grips for your J frame. I have found that the grips can be a key problem in causing pain or discomfort. I only use Ahrends grips on all my revolvers. I only shoot K frames but they were hurting not my hand, but the saddle joint on my thumb. This was also only with .38 special. Best of luck to you.

DocH
01-20-12, 19:17
No better way to get good with it than getting out there and working on the fundamentals with your J frame.

I bet you will be a heck of a lot better J frame shooter around March 1st !

This reminds me that I need to load up some practice loads for mine too. 148 grain wadcutters make some nice clean holes in papers :) Yep.The wadcutters will give you all the trigger disciipline you'll need for a DA revo. Got a smoothed trigger face? It'll be a lot easier on your skin with that many rounds through the little J.Good on ya' for doing it.

Dienekes
01-21-12, 12:20
Look up "ball and dummy" or "skip loading". Easier on the gun and the shooter, stretches the ammo, and builds good trigger control through instant feedback.

There actually is such a thing as a free lunch.

skyugo
01-21-12, 13:00
got my first 50 loaded ready to go.... after finally getting my crimp set right.... nerve racking loading them with HS6... you cant' see the powder... :eek: I ended up going really slow. pretty sure 13 grains of HS6 would pop this little gun. :p On the plus side you can shake the cases to hear if you missed a charge.
I think I'm going to pick up some trail boss for the rest to give me a little more visual feedback and prevent double charges. Apparently that stuff shoots pretty soft too.

skyugo
01-21-12, 13:02
Look up "ball and dummy" or "skip loading". Easier on the gun and the shooter, stretches the ammo, and builds good trigger control through instant feedback.

There actually is such a thing as a free lunch.

cool i'll definitely be doing that.

I'm curious how much my enthusiasm for this project will wain after tomorrow, i haven't fired this gun in 2 months.

skyugo
01-22-12, 18:37
alrighty 110 rounds down

http://i.imgur.com/yLpAa.jpg

One of the rounds i loaded with HS6 was a squib. I am quite certain I had powder in all of them, gave them the shake test and everything. I think the issue was that such a light load of HS6 could find itself so far ahead of the primer that it would not ignite. Managed to knock the round out with a brass punch and continue shooting.

the trail boss rounds also felt a bit inconsistent, though none squibbed. I am going to increase the charge to 4.5 grains from 3.5. hopefully this will fill the case better and provide more consistent results.

on the upside the rounds i made are very pleasant to shoot. I think even with the increased charge with trail boss powder the recoil will still be pleasant and manageable.

PriseDeFer
01-24-12, 08:25
"I am going to increase the charge to 4.5 grains from 3.5...."

Good. Get out of squib territory, make some noise and let her buck.

skyugo
01-24-12, 11:22
"I am going to increase the charge to 4.5 grains from 3.5...."

Good. Get out of squib territory, make some noise and let her buck.

yeah I've never loaded such a huge case before. 223 and 9mm are pretty much full even at minimal loads.

These loads were silly light too.... you could get away with pretty minimal recoil management :o

skyugo
01-28-12, 22:29
alrighty.. i got my 38 load sorted out. 4.5 grains of powder with a medium crimp and .020 over min OAL.

trail boss is AWESOME stuff. low recoil, clean, smells good, fills the case preventing double charges.

I think i'm going to bump it up to 5.0 grains. The 4.5 is still well within comfort range to shoot. I'd actually like to get my training ammo just shy of my carry loads (110 grain +p hornady) in recoil.

167
01-29-12, 00:41
Are you using any type of performance metric to see what 1 month and 500 rounds of practice will get you? I would be interested to follow along.

skyugo
01-29-12, 02:13
Are you using any type of performance metric to see what 1 month and 500 rounds of practice will get you? I would be interested to follow along.

kinda winging it a bit at this point to be honest. I'm basically a beginner with this pistol. It's going to be a lot of press out drills and speed strip reloads really. just fundamentals.

now that i finally have my reloads sorted out I'd certainly be interested in some suggestions. i don't have a shot timer, but my range has targets that turn (face to side) on a timer.

167
01-29-12, 04:06
If I were running a handgun relatively hard for a month I would go with something like the 300 (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?2454-DotW-11-Bullseye-Three-Way) for basic fundamentals, Bill Drill for recoil control, trigger manipulation, etc., some type of timed reload drill and whatever else you wanted to throw in. Like the iHack (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?2641-Week-14-iHack) maybe since you are at an indoor range, or Dot Torture (http://pistol-training.com/drills/dot-torture).

You will basically be using the turning target as a PAR timer, so probably best just to set a goal and work towards it. I always find it helpful to have something there to push myself towards. Even if I don't make it, I usually make more progress that way.

LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-29-12, 04:19
Im enjoying following this thread. I do hope you come up with somesort of matrix and self evaluation Skyugo, Im interested to see how much your reload times, accuracy, and speed increase, as well as just your general confidence when carrying the J.

Something this thread is teaching me is that I need to get into reloading. I did 100 rounds one day on a 340PD, and 50 rds on a 642. Not only was I super sore and turned off from J Frame shooting for a while, but it hurt my wallet :eek:

Keep truckin!

skyugo
01-29-12, 15:02
Im enjoying following this thread. I do hope you come up with somesort of matrix and self evaluation Skyugo, Im interested to see how much your reload times, accuracy, and speed increase, as well as just your general confidence when carrying the J.

Something this thread is teaching me is that I need to get into reloading. I did 100 rounds one day on a 340PD, and 50 rds on a 642. Not only was I super sore and turned off from J Frame shooting for a while, but it hurt my wallet :eek:

Keep truckin!

these things are a pleasure to shoot with a case full of trail boss. it feels about like shooting a glock 19 as far as overall recoil. obviously doesn't have the all the movement of a slide after the shot breaks, but as far as recoil amplitude.

funny thing is my hornady +p carry ammo is softer shooting than some of the "target" ammo i was finding on the cheap. HSM 158 grain loads are totally brutal.

Loading light should actually extend the life of this gun quite a bit too. I have no fear of running thousands of these reloads.

skyugo
02-28-12, 00:49
Ok guys... been a slow few weeks, but i did manage to get out to the range with the j again. did 150 rounds on saturday. tons of press outs, a few double tap drills... then did a half box or so of friend calling number/color on a target.

beginning of the session had me barely getting on the paper... by the end i was able to press out and hit A zones on 1/3 scale IPSC guys at 15 feet quickly and consistently. Key thing seems to be the trigger squeeze. Just get a nice smooth steady pull to the rear feel the cylinder line up and go.

I'm actually excited to shoot it again soon. This really is a great firearm once you get into the groove with it.

I also purchased 250 158 grain lead round nose bullets at the gun show, so i'll be experimenting with them. The plated ones are nice and clean... but i've heard 38 special and lead bullets go together like peas and carrots.... so we'll see.

Axcelea
02-29-12, 20:39
Key thing seems to be the trigger squeeze. Just get a nice smooth steady pull to the rear feel the cylinder line up and go.

Started getting into a groove dry firing where I could pull the trigger smoothly enough to cleanly go through all that stages of unlocking the cylinder, spinning it, and lock up right before firing. I imagine this would be key to doing well (haven't been out with it since doing this dry fire), now it sounds true and makes me want to go out with the J-frame next free day. Sadly got other more pressing things to do and shoot :cray:

I take it your not getting all beat up by it?

ImBroke
02-29-12, 21:36
Yep, maintaining the sight picture while you are pulling the trigger is the secret to good DA revolver shooting. A smooth, steady pull from start to finish rather than getting a sight picture and yanking. Once you have a ton of those under your belt, shooting the gun quickly while still getting good hits is easy.

skyugo
03-02-12, 00:33
Yep, maintaining the sight picture while you are pulling the trigger is the secret to good DA revolver shooting. A smooth, steady pull from start to finish rather than getting a sight picture and yanking. Once you have a ton of those under your belt, shooting the gun quickly while still getting good hits is easy.

yeah the pull is really like a 3 stage process... you can hear the cylinder unlock, relock then the hammer falls. I'm basically working on condensing this to as little time as possible.

as far as recoil/hand pain goes, it hurts more than shooting my g19, but it's quite tolerable. currently shooting 4.6 grains of trail boss behind a 135 grain plated bullet with CCI 400 primers. moderate crimp. seems good. VERY accurate if you do your part.

KCBRUIN
03-02-12, 02:35
For trigger control I use a method I learned or inferred from a Jerry Miculek revolver tips video/article. I use more of my trigger finger than on a semi-auto. The tip of my trigger finger hits my weak hand purposefully right before the break. When i feel the trigger finger hit my weak hand i know from dryfire practice that I'm right at the break. I can make sure the sights are perfect and pull that last couple mm before the break. I practiced a lot with dry firing to get my trigger finger in the right position, but it allows me to turn a heavy M&P 340 pull into something I'm accurate without having to have a slow pull.

Edited to add citation.

http://www.shootingusa.com/PRO_TIPS/MICULEK4/miculek4.html

That's where I got the trigger finger method I use, and it works pretty good for me.

ImBroke
03-02-12, 09:08
currently shooting 4.6 grains of trail boss behind a 135 grain plated bullet with CCI 400 primers. moderate crimp. seems good. VERY accurate if you do your part.

Mind if I ask which 135 you're using and if you are getting much unburnt powder? I'm using a 158gr LRN and Universal Clays but it leaves alot of unburnt powder which can cause a fumbled reload in an ICORE match. I don't use the LCR in ICORE, but I use the same load for all my 38s.

skyugo
03-02-12, 12:16
Mind if I ask which 135 you're using and if you are getting much unburnt powder? I'm using a 158gr LRN and Universal Clays but it leaves alot of unburnt powder which can cause a fumbled reload in an ICORE match. I don't use the LCR in ICORE, but I use the same load for all my 38s.

i believe they are rainier arms 135 grain plated. trail boss burns VERY clean. nothing left on the gun but some fine black carbon residue which wipes off easily.

i'll be loading up some 158 gr LRN soon, I'll report back on them...

ImBroke
03-02-12, 12:38
Thanks, I'll switch to Trail Boss after this batch is done.

skyugo
03-02-12, 13:01
Thanks, I'll switch to Trail Boss after this batch is done.

it's great, as long as you're not loading defense or hunting ammo, i don't' think you'll get much over 900 fps out of it even with a full length barrel.

Z71Silverado09
03-06-12, 06:26
have fun! any shooting is good shooting