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View Full Version : Springfield Armory XD-S, .45ACP single stack 5+1



ForTehNguyen
01-18-12, 23:18
http://xdspistol.com/

http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2012/01/17/springfield-xd-s/

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m272/joedeke/viewer.png


The trigger is similar to any other XD or XDm, it is single action but seems like a light double action. Aka the USA Ultra Safety Assurance trigger system. But the pamphlet says the XDs has a short reset trigger "short travel along with a short reset helps to keep you on target with greater ease for quicker, more accurate follow-up shots."

The drop safety is still present just moved up closer to the breech face and is now round instead of oval. Almost in the same place that Glock has thier drop safty.

The XDs will fit in a pocket and is smaller in size than the Ruger LC9.

The XDs will come with 2 back straps
Barrel length 3.3 inch
Overall length 6.3 inch
Overall height 4.4 inch
Weight 29 oz
Slide is forged steel
Slide and barrel is melonited
Will come with two stainless mags

it say it weighs 29oz, gotta be a typo because my XD9 SC double stack is 26oz.

ak74auto
01-19-12, 02:04
Nice, Glock's G-36 mght be in trouble!

Velcro
01-19-12, 03:36
...both need a "longer" mag capacity to make that "+1" go even a bit more.


G36/30 Hybrid... XD.45/XDS Hybrid.....hmmmmmm!!!!!




Velcro

BoomerShooter
01-19-12, 09:14
Is it me but am I the only one wondering WHY?

It would seem that this would be better off in a 9mm caliber than a .45.

Oh well

Grizzly16
01-19-12, 09:25
Is it me but am I the only one wondering WHY?

It would seem that this would be better off in a 9mm caliber than a .45.

Oh well

Cause of people that live by "a 9mm might expand but a .45 won't shrink".

Not everyone reads or believes that 9mm is an effective round for sd.

Or they just prefer single caliber and are already invested in the .45.

ForTehNguyen
01-19-12, 09:46
they will come out with other calibers later. Pocket .45 single stack makes more headlines than a pocket single stack 9mm, even though the 9mm is the one that will sell

markm
01-19-12, 11:52
Is it me but am I the only one wondering WHY?

It would seem that this would be better off in a 9mm caliber than a .45.

Oh well

Because money is made off of imbeciles in the gun world.... If you target intelligent customers, you'll go broke quick.

Someone here pointed out the top 10 guns sold by large retailer... and the list was essentially 10 guns you'd never buy if you had a full functional brain. :rolleyes:

jbsmwd
01-19-12, 12:22
I thought S&W working on a single stack M&P?

KCBRUIN
01-19-12, 13:31
Let's see about the same thickness as the cylinder on my J frame. Looks like it might be small enough for pocket carry, and hold one more round then my J frame with faster/easier reloads. It's in the caliber I'm forced to carry on duty, and the caliber I choose to use for HD. I'd have just one caliber to buy/reload/train with.

I'd have to be an imbecile to even consider this :rolleyes:

Kain
01-19-12, 14:17
...both need a "longer" mag capacity to make that "+1" go even a bit more.


G36/30 Hybrid... XD.45/XDS Hybrid.....hmmmmmm!!!!!




Velcro

I kind of thought the same thing, though my reason what so that you'd have a grip long enough to hold on to. Now if they can get their price point below the $550 mark which used Glock 36s are going for around where I am then you might have a real nice seller. Wonder if they plan on a single stack 9mm or .40 down the road? If they bring that out they might do some real damage to Glock's market share, though I doubt I am the first to say that.

shua713
01-19-12, 17:15
Personally, I am pretty excited about this gun. On hot summer days when you need something small. Still packing a 45.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW9p-MRE4pE

ForTehNguyen
01-19-12, 17:20
appears this site is selling preorders for $502

http://www.thegunsource.com/item/738439__springfield_armory_handguns_pistols_spr_xds_45acp_3_3_6rd.aspx?SR=1&APID=668&nn=3

KCBRUIN
01-19-12, 17:26
So around $400 from an LEO distributor is a possibility I'd think.

KCBRUIN
01-19-12, 18:01
Just for comparison
LCP .380 6+1
LC9 9mm 7+1
KelTec PF9 7+1
KelTec P11 10+1
XDS .45 5+1

Length
LCP 5.16"
LC9 6"
KelTec 5.85"
KelTec P11 5.6"
XDS 6.3"

Width
LCP .82"
LC9 .9"
KelTec .88"
KelTec P11 1"
XDS 1"

Height
LCP 3.6"
LC9 4.5"
KelTec 4.3"
KelTec P11 4.3"
XDS 4.4"

Weight
LCP 9.4oz
LC9 17.1oz
KelTec 12.7oz
KelTec P11 14oz
XDS 29oz

I chose the Rugers because that's the most common pocket pistol I see around here. (I forgot about Kel Tec) Weight seems ridiculous, but it measures up well everywhere else IMO.
Edited to add KelTec. I'm not a KelTec fan that's why I forgot. Can't argue with their ability to make cheap, light, hi cap pistols tho.

NotDylan
01-19-12, 20:55
I really hope the single stack M&P comes to fruition. This is a style of gun that we need more of.

KCBRUIN
01-19-12, 21:44
I'd like a single stack M&P line as well so hopefully this sells well.

That weight has to be a typo. A fully loaded G36 weighs 27oz and that's 6+1. The reps are giving that weight in the SHOT booth videos too.

2theXtreme
01-20-12, 01:04
I got the chance to handle this weapon today at the Springfield booth and, although I may be a little partial to SA because I own a few, I like this little gun. It feels excellent in hand and it has a great grip angle. It points very well. I could defintely see myself purchasing this for a summer gun. Just my 2.

graffex
01-20-12, 21:26
A XD... I'll pass, actually run.

2theXtreme
01-20-12, 21:42
A XD... I'll pass, actually run.

Why is that?


Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

zxd9
01-20-12, 22:02
I like the idea but if the weight is accurate that would be a concern of mine if I were to try and pocket carry.

As to why? A Springfield rep said that everyone has micro 9mm's and .380's. They wanted to be different.

Jake'sDad
01-21-12, 03:19
Though I agree that a small 9 makes more sense, mostly, I wanted a small .45 for a specific purpose, and got a Kahr P45 to replace my Officer's model. The P45 has a 3.64" barrel, so it clocks a little faster than the closer to 3" PM45, and it's reportedly more reliable than the shorter gun.

Now I realize the Kahr's don't have a sterling rep, but neither do the Springfield XD's. My experience with the PM45, consists of my best friend's that has worked flawlessly since he took it out of the box, and mine, which shit the bed when I got it, (my usual luck), went back to Kahr, and has now gone 1200 rounds+ malfunction free. I really didn't expect to like the Kahr, but it's actually grown on me. I've been carrying it a lot lately.

XD-S 5+1
Kahr PM45 5+1
Kahr P45 6+1

Overall length
XD-S 6.3"
PM45 5.67"
P45 6.07"

Barrel length
XD-S 3.3"
PM45 3.14"
P45 3.64"

Height
XD-S 4.4"
PM45 4.49"
P45 4.8"

Weight
XD-S 29 oz
PM45 17.3 oz
P45 18.5 oz
* Kahr weights are without mags, not sure on the XD-S. The Kahr mags weigh 2 oz if the XD-S weight includes mag.


29 oz unloaded would take the XD-S out of the "pocket pistol" category for me.

2theXtreme
01-21-12, 03:39
Though I agree that a small 9 makes more sense, mostly, I wanted a small .45 for a specific purpose, and got a Kahr P45 to replace my Officer's model. The P45 has a 3.64" barrel, so it clocks a little faster than the closer to 3" PM45, and it's reportedly more reliable than the shorter gun.

Now I realize the Kahr's don't have a sterling rep, but neither do the Springfield XD's. My experience with the PM45, consists of my best friend's that has worked flawlessly since he took it out of the box, and mine, which shit the bed when I got it, (my usual luck), went back to Kahr, and has now gone 1200 rounds+ malfunction free. I really didn't expect to like the Kahr, but it's actually grown on me. I've been carrying it a lot lately.

XD-S 5+1
Kahr PM45 5+1
Kahr P45 6+1

Overall length
XD-S 6.3"
PM45 5.67"
P45 6.07"

Barrel length
XD-S 3.3"
PM45 3.14"
P45 3.64"

Height
XD-S 4.4"
PM45 4.49"
P45 4.8"

Weight
XD-S 29 oz
PM45 17.3 oz
P45 18.5 oz
* Kahr weights are without mags, not sure on the XD-S. The Kahr mags weigh 2 oz if the XD-S weight includes mag.


29 oz unloaded would take the XD-S out of the "pocket pistol" category for me.

You forgot one major thing...that Kahr cost about 800 bucks. I'm not saying you shouldn't pay a little more for something you are staking your life on. But I personally wouldn't pay that much for something I knew didn't have a good track record. The Springfield will probably be around 550 or less. And since when have XD's gotten a bad rep. My XDm has over 3 thousand round boxes without a hiccup. Is there something I'm missing?


Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

DemonRat
01-21-12, 04:03
I own a XD 5" Tactical .40 S&W and I recently purchased a XDS .40. I have shot more then 2500 rounds thru the 5" and the only problem I had was a FTE due to the lack of proper cleaning. I shot 500 rounds thru it that afternoon. I forgot to clean it from the shooting session the weekend before. Gotta love frog lube. So as 2theXtreme has asked are we missing something about them.:confused:

I for one will wait and see how this XDS .45 runs. I would like to go and rent one to see how it shoots. I like the idea of a small .45 but I am thinking that beings this is the first of its kind there might be some bugs in it. Time will only tell what this handgun will do.

Jake'sDad
01-21-12, 04:42
You forgot one major thing...that Kahr cost about 800 bucks. I'm not saying you shouldn't pay a little more for something you are staking your life on. But I personally wouldn't pay that much for something I knew didn't have a good track record. The Springfield will probably be around 550 or less.

I didn't pay close to 800 for my Kahr. The CW45 version (http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/52707-55.html) is even cheaper, sub 400 bucks. I doubt there's 100 bucks difference in wholesale between the XD and the PM45.


And since when have XD's gotten a bad rep. My XDm has over 3 thousand round boxes without a hiccup. Is there something I'm missing?

I have a little personal knowledge of the XD not doing well in some LE testing, but I also know guys that have had great luck with them. Nether of them seem to be a common go to gun for for the guys in the know.

DemonRat
01-21-12, 05:09
I have a little personal knowledge of the XD not doing well in some LE testing, but I also know guys that have had great luck with them. Nether of them seem to be a common go to gun for for the guys in the know.
I am curious as to what LE test was done. Can you provide a link to an article or to the actual testing done.

Jake'sDad
01-21-12, 05:29
I am curious as to what LE test was done. Can you provide a link to an article or to the actual testing done.

Nothing I can post.

Maybe Doc can.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=604345&postcount=2

masakari
01-21-12, 19:06
Smaller than an LC9? Holy hell! Impressed.

Jake'sDad
01-21-12, 22:52
Smaller than an LC9? Holy hell! Impressed.

Except it's really not......

DemonRat
01-22-12, 01:04
Nothing I can post.

Maybe Doc can.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=604345&postcount=2

I am not understanding why you are unable to back up what you have said about the parts failing on the XD/M in a LE tests. I read what Doc wrote about them. Doesn't really say much about what parts failed. And how the pistols were tested. Thats what I would like to know. Is this pistol testing a secret and can't be talked about.

Here's a link you might like. It gives the good and bad about them and alot of the stuff people are saying are not true. Just more of what someone told them or they read online. There's also a part about what Doc said as to why he doesn't like them. That they can't be minipulated by your off hand or by one hand at all. The gentleman that started the thread is a LEO and he has had Glocks, M&P's , Sig's, and XD/M both as personal firearms and duty weapons. And no I am not trying to change your mind or argue with you. I know my XD has some minor problems even Glock has some too. I just want you to be able to answer my question which you seem not to be able to.

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/general-sa-xd-xd-m-talk/156561-cutting-through-hype-myths-xd-good-enough-professional-use.html

Jake'sDad
01-22-12, 03:21
I am not understanding why you are unable to back up what you have said about the parts failing on the XD/M in a LE tests.

Wanna point out where I said that?

I said I have some personal knowledge of them not doing well in some LE tests. Personal knowledge....conversations, guys I know, etc. It was a passing reference. Probably much like Doc's where he said....


XD's are a no go for serious use--the inability to retract the slide without engaging the grip safety makes one-hand injured operation very difficult with the XD--this is a deal breaker for me. In addition, in some government tests, XD's (particularly the .40's) have broken a lot of parts compared to other pistols being tested...I'll take a 9 mm Glock or M&P any day of the week over an XD.

So if your torqued about part's breakage on XD's not being "backed up", ask Doc, he's the one who said it.

But you might not want to use that terminology with him.....


Is this pistol testing a secret and can't be talked about.

No secret, just don't want to throw out info guys I know, gave me, out on the net. Agencies are funny about that. Again...maybe the same reasons Doc didn't link to the testing he was referring to. If you're LE, PM me your department contact info and I'll see if I can hook you up with someone that feels like sharing data with you.



Here's a link you might like. It gives the good and bad about them and alot of the stuff people are saying are not true. Just more of what someone told them or they read online. There's also a part about what Doc said as to why he doesn't like them. That they can't be minipulated by your off hand or by one hand at all. The gentleman that started the thread is a LEO and he has had Glocks, M&P's , Sig's, and XD/M both as personal firearms and duty weapons. And no I am not trying to change your mind or argue with you. I know my XD has some minor problems even Glock has some too. I just want you to be able to answer my question which you seem not to be able to.

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/general-sa-xd-xd-m-talk/156561-cutting-through-hype-myths-xd-good-enough-professional-use.html

So at the XD forums, they think their gun is great and isn't getting a fair shake?

Yer kiddin'!!!!

So do you have an explanation of why the XD is so absent on the lists of LE issued guns?

Conspiracy? Croatian prejudice?

Pal, I got no dog in the fight here. I'm glad you're happy with your XD's. I have friends that have had good luck with theirs. Just like I've had mainly good luck with my Kahr PM45, (for a specific purpose), even though like the XD, they don't seem to have sterling reputations with LE.

But if I were back kicking doors again, I probably wouldn't carry either one.

shutup&shoot
01-22-12, 06:53
When I see le I like to look and see what they are carrying. I have noticed more are now carrying Xd or XDm. I still see more glocks then anything else, but not nearly as much now.
I have owned the Xd and XDm and liked them for what they were, tools. I don't see them being any better then Glock, just different.

ForTehNguyen
01-22-12, 11:49
XD's are a no go for serious use--the inability to retract the slide without engaging the grip safety makes one-hand injured operation very difficult with the XD--this is a deal breaker for me. In addition, in some government tests, XD's (particularly the .40's) have broken a lot of parts compared to other pistols being tested...I'll take a 9 mm Glock or M&P any day of the week over an XD.


Start at 3:55
Magpul Pistol Drills (Malfunctions) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXoBuo8plwI&feature=related)

every one handed malfunction drill shown in this video is done with a proper firing grip on the gun. How does a grip safety prevent you from doing this? It is a moot point as long as you have a proper grip. How else are you suppose to rack the slide one handed without having a proper firing grip on the pistol?

nml
01-22-12, 13:05
What's with the fiber optic???

Shoup
01-22-12, 13:10
Start at 3:55
Magpul Pistol Drills (Malfunctions) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXoBuo8plwI&feature=related)

every one handed malfunction drill shown in this video is done with a proper firing grip on the gun. How does a grip safety prevent you from doing this? It is a moot point as long as you have a proper grip. How else are you suppose to rack the slide one handed without having a proper firing grip on the pistol?

I agree with you, we were trained to use the rear sights to rack one handed, either off of your duty holster, table, car door, etc. I'll take my XD's over my Glock any day


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

djmorris
01-22-12, 13:44
I'll pick one of these up if the price is right. XD's are very nice firearms. They have a bad rep on these forums but according to this forum the only handguns even worth owning are Glock/MP/HK so take that with a grain o' salt!

The whole "no one handed manipulation" is stupid. What are the chances that you won't be able to manipulate it because of an injury and even so, it would be handled the same way as any other handgun; regardless of any grip safety. There is tons of videos around of people demonstrating this. Verdict??? MOOT POINT. INTERNET MYTH. How would you not be able to manipulate the gun because of the grip safety? This to me proves that people online will say anything to try and validate their claims. If you're holding the gun, you're pressing the safety. Period.

The real flaw of the XD is the roll pin that will break if you dry fire it too much. Get some snap caps, or simply put.. DON'T DRY FIRE IT.

Besides that, the XD/XDM series are fine handguns. Yes, I'm sure there are lemons but every brand has their lemons even HK (albeit much less).

The XDM line is certainly not worth the $600-$750 asking price though. For that money you could buy an HK! For $400-$450, I think the XD's are sweet shooters and very reliable. I had a XD9SC that ate everything, steel casing, +p, you name it. Never had one malfunction and the accuracy was the best I've ever seen from a sub-compact, hands down. I only sold it to fund my HK! :D

Jake'sDad
01-22-12, 13:50
When I see le I like to look and see what they are carrying. I have noticed more are now carrying Xd or XDm. I still see more glocks then anything else, but not nearly as much now.

Perhaps you could give us some agencies that tested and then issued them?

Jake'sDad
01-22-12, 13:55
I'll pick one of these up if the price is right. XD's are very nice firearms. They have a bad rep on these forums but according to this forum the only handguns even worth owning are Glock/MP/HK so take that with a grain o' salt!

Apparently we should also take what the vast majority of LE agencies have been choosing with "a grain o' salt" as well.

Since you don't think the opinions of the professionals on M4C are valid, why did you bother to sign up?

Jake'sDad
01-22-12, 13:58
The whole "no one handed manipulation" is stupid. What are the chances that you won't be able to manipulate it because of an injury

..........

djmorris
01-22-12, 14:14
Dude, don't get so offended over nothing. I'm saying what are the chances that you'd be injured in a way that it's going to stop you from manipulating the firearm? I can't think of any way the grip safety would stop you. I don't care if you had one of your arms blown off, it's going to be the same as any other handgun in terms of manipulating it.

I do value the opinions of people here, not you, but others. I'm just saying there are other handguns worth owning other than Glock/MP/HK.

Don't get your panties in a bunch because I think the XD's are decent guns that get a bad rap' around here. I'm guessing you haven't even owned one, let alone shot one.

The "vast majority" of LE agencies. Seriously? I want to see the proof because everything I ever hear is "a guy I knew friends dad is a LEO at this agency". I've spoken with many LEO who tested the XD series and most of them agreed it was a nice handgun but their dept. did not issue it because they don't get significant bulk LE pricing compared to companies like Glock and S&W who practically give them away.

Jake'sDad
01-22-12, 14:53
The "vast majority" of LE agencies. Seriously? I want to see the proof because everything I ever hear is "a guy I knew friends dad is a LEO at this agency".

Of the three guns you mentioned, (Glock, S&W, and H&K), Glock (http://us.glock.com/news/release/glock-introduces-25th-aniversary-pistol) claims they have 65% of the LE market and S&W (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Category4_750001_750051_757940_-1_757938_757812_image) has sold hundreds of agencies M&P pistols in the last couple of years alone. Though H&K has a pretty small share of the LE market, SIG still has some significant LE business, especially in the federal agencies, and Beretta still has a few majors issuing their guns.

Do you know of any agencies issuing the XD?


I've spoken with many LEO who tested the XD series and most of them agreed it was a nice handgun but their dept. did not issue it because they don't get significant bulk LE pricing compared to companies like Glock and S&W who practically give them away.

Yes, it must be pricing that's kept the XD from taking business away from Glock, S&W, SIG, Beretta and H&K ......

djmorris
01-22-12, 16:13
I'm not denying that the XD does not have a good foothold in the law enforcement world. However, it is speculation and internet myth that they "failed many tests" at law enforcement agencies nationwide. I haven't seen even one credible case, let alone "many" !!

I do find it ironic that the XD stands for "Xtreme Duty" but they are not really used by many as a duty gun. To my knowledge, the Croatian military uses them as well as some Iraqi security firm, or the Iraqi police. Don't quote me on this.

So. Yeah. Say what you will about your first hand experience with the XD/XDM line, but it's clear to me you just don't have any. They are not the best guns ever made, but they are better than people here give them credit and in my opinion every bit reliable as a comparable M&P, etc.

Anyways, I don't want to sidetrack this thread anymore than we already have. :suicide:

Jake'sDad
01-22-12, 16:46
I'm not denying that the XD does not have a good foothold in the law enforcement world.

After being around for so long, why do you think that is?


However, it is speculation and internet myth that they "failed many tests" at law enforcement agencies nationwide. I haven't seen even one credible case, let alone "many" !!

Where did you see "many"? The only "many" reference was from you, when you said:


I've spoken with many LEO who tested the XD series and most of them agreed it was a nice handgun but their dept. did not issue it because they don't get significant bulk LE pricing compared to companies like Glock and S&W who practically give them away.

Can you name one?

Feel free to refer to my anonymous contribution as speculation and myth, as you should.

Do you also think Doc is speculating and spreading internet myth?


I do find it ironic that the XD stands for "Xtreme Duty" but they are not really used by many as a duty gun.

Yes, that is ironic.


To my knowledge, the Croatian military uses them as well as some Iraqi security firm, or the Iraqi police. Don't quote me on this.

Darn.


So. Yeah. Say what you will about your first hand experience with the XD/XDM line, but it's clear to me you just don't have any.

Your ability to read seems to be in question. I never claimed to have any substantial first hand experience with the XD.


They are not the best guns ever made, but they are better than people here give them credit and in my opinion every bit reliable as a comparable M&P, etc.

Good. Glad you're happy with yours. I like my Kahr too, but I don't think it's every bit as good as the guns that LE has been choosing.


Anyways, I don't want to sidetrack this thread anymore than we already have. :suicide:

We?

My original post had to do with clarifying some size comparisons.

Alaskapopo
01-22-12, 17:19
I have seen the following break on XD's: extractors, ejectors and the magazine bases. This was during IDPA matches over the stretch of a few years. That would not be such a huge deal if you could get Springfield to send you the parts or set up an armorers program. But they won't you have to send the pistol back to them which from Alaska means at least $60 to $75 trip into the factory. If you have to do that a few times you have already paid for a higher quality pistol like a Glock, M&P, PPQ, etc.
Other issues I have with the XD are the high bore axis, lack luster accuracy (in the examples I have fired in 9mm) and long trigger re set. I don't think they are terrible guns for the money but I put them on the bottom of what I consider the acceptable for carry or duty gun list. One of my officers does have one in 40sw and his has worked fine so far. But he only shoots when I force him to for qualifications. He usually fails the first attempt and we shoot two pistol qualificaitions a year so he has been through less than 500 rounds with that gun.
Pat

Alaskapopo
01-22-12, 17:26
Don't get your panties in a bunch because I think the XD's are decent guns that get a bad rap' around here. I'm guessing you haven't even owned one, let alone shot one.

\.

I have not owned XD's but I have shot them. I think they represent a good gun for someone who does not have a lot of cash and is not going to run the gun hard. Meaning the typical guy I see at local matches. It would not be a bad carry gun for a CCW holder. However as a duty gun it has some flaws or as a hard use gun. Frankly I think these were a much better value of a firearm when they were the HS2000 and priced correctly at $300.
Pat

RogerinTPA
01-22-12, 18:12
Nice, Glock's G-36 mght be in trouble!

Glock has no worries at all. They will sleep well tonight...it's an XD for Christ's sake.

KSmedman
01-22-12, 19:09
I want to know where all the weight is? 29oz empty?? You could carry a S&W 325 Nightguard and save an ounce, still have 6 rounds... I like the idea, but that's heavy for anything to be considered a pocket pistol.

FTR, I have an XD45 tactical (5" barrel) that I use as the bedside table gun. I have about 4K rounds through it and no issues so far. I have found this pistol to be quite accurate.
I have weighed it at 44 ozs loaded, with a weapon light. It's ~ 31oz empty sans light. It's big and heavy, so I carry my G19 (~25 oz loaded w/15). Can't say enough good about the Glock, imagine that.

ETA: Did want to throw out there that the Wichita Airport Police are carrying XD's (I know, whoooo.....). So I guess someone considers them GTG.
Wichita PD has gone away from G22's, to the officer choice of G17 or M&P9. Interesting to me to see the transition back to 9mm.

DemonRat
01-22-12, 19:52
QUOTE=Jake'sDad;1204901]Wanna point out where I said that?
OK My mistake on you saying that I do apologize.
I said I have some personal knowledge of them not doing well in some LE tests. Personal knowledge....conversations, guys I know, etc. It was a passing reference. Probably much like Doc's where he said....
So this means you wasn't there and saw this. It's second hand information. I am not saying the information Doc put's out is wrong. This isn't about what Doc has said this is about what you have stated.


So if your torqued about part's breakage on XD's not being "backed up", ask Doc, he's the one who said it.
I will be pming Doc on this and I am not torqued I just want clarification on your information you have. Is that wrong.

But you might not want to use that terminology with him.....
I hope I am not coming across as being an icehole but if I am I apologize. I am jusy trying to have a conversation with you and not an arguement. I like debating myths and hearsays and other internet info that can sometimes be overrated.(I think thats the word I want to use.)


No secret, just don't want to throw out info guys I know, gave me, out on the net. Agencies are funny about that. Again...maybe the same reasons Doc didn't link to the testing he was referring to. If you're LE, PM me your department contact info and I'll see if I can hook you up with someone that feels like sharing data with you.

I don't want names or even Dept. But if you had first stated I was told this or read this here about them I might have understood your information better. I have asked in my previous post if you had personaly shot one that broke. You stated you had personal knowledge of the XD not doing well. This means to me that your have personally shot one and it failed in your hands.

So at the XD forums, they think their gun is great and isn't getting a fair shake?

Yer kiddin'!!!!
Nope not kidding evidently you didn't read the information there as it does state some facts and explains some issues the guns have. It even states some of the issues the glock has also and some of the benifits of a glock.
So do you have an explanation of why the XD is so absent on the lists of LE issued guns?
Go to the link I sent you that I was hoping you would have read it but it seems your to stubborn to read that information.I feel it is non-biased what this LEO wrote.

Conspiracy? Croatian prejudice?
Conspiracy no. Predjudice no. But at the time that XD's first came out people weren't to sure about wether or not that there would be enough parts or mags for there XD's. I think and I am unsure of this as it's been awhile back. There was a war going on in 1991 for Croatian Independence and last for 4 yrs. People were afraid that the war would start back up. So they were skeptical of them at the time and it still continues.

Pal, I got no dog in the fight here. I'm glad you're happy with your XD's. I have friends that have had good luck with theirs. Just like I've had mainly good luck with my Kahr PM45, (for a specific purpose), even though like the XD, they don't seem to have sterling reputations with LE.
I haven't shot the Kahr's so I will not say or repeat any information that I have read or been told about them good or bad. As that just leads to more rumors and discusions like we are having.


But if I were back kicking doors again, I probably wouldn't carry either one.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I think a LEO would have a been a great job, but unfortunatly I was unable to become one. I hope that I am not coming across as some icehole as I stated before I like discussing issues like this and debating things.

I am sorry this is off topic I will stop now.

Jake'sDad
01-22-12, 21:31
QUOTE=Jake'sDad;1204901]Wanna point out where I said that?
OK My mistake on you saying that I do apologize.
I said I have some personal knowledge of them not doing well in some LE tests. Personal knowledge....conversations, guys I know, etc. It was a passing reference. Probably much like Doc's where he said....
So this means you wasn't there and saw this. It's second hand information. I am not saying the information Doc put's out is wrong. This isn't about what Doc has said this is about what you have stated.


So if your torqued about part's breakage on XD's not being "backed up", ask Doc, he's the one who said it.
I will be pming Doc on this and I am not torqued I just want clarification on your information you have. Is that wrong.

But you might not want to use that terminology with him.....
I hope I am not coming across as being an icehole but if I am I apologize. I am jusy trying to have a conversation with you and not an arguement. I like debating myths and hearsays and other internet info that can sometimes be overrated.(I think thats the word I want to use.)


No secret, just don't want to throw out info guys I know, gave me, out on the net. Agencies are funny about that. Again...maybe the same reasons Doc didn't link to the testing he was referring to. If you're LE, PM me your department contact info and I'll see if I can hook you up with someone that feels like sharing data with you.

I don't want names or even Dept. But if you had first stated I was told this or read this here about them I might have understood your information better. I have asked in my previous post if you had personaly shot one that broke. You stated you had personal knowledge of the XD not doing well. This means to me that your have personally shot one and it failed in your hands.

So at the XD forums, they think their gun is great and isn't getting a fair shake?

Yer kiddin'!!!!
Nope not kidding evidently you didn't read the information there as it does state some facts and explains some issues the guns have. It even states some of the issues the glock has also and some of the benifits of a glock.
So do you have an explanation of why the XD is so absent on the lists of LE issued guns?
Go to the link I sent you that I was hoping you would have read it but it seems your to stubborn to read that information.I feel it is non-biased what this LEO wrote.

Conspiracy? Croatian prejudice?
Conspiracy no. Predjudice no. But at the time that XD's first came out people weren't to sure about wether or not that there would be enough parts or mags for there XD's. I think and I am unsure of this as it's been awhile back. There was a war going on in 1991 for Croatian Independence and last for 4 yrs. People were afraid that the war would start back up. So they were skeptical of them at the time and it still continues.

Pal, I got no dog in the fight here. I'm glad you're happy with your XD's. I have friends that have had good luck with theirs. Just like I've had mainly good luck with my Kahr PM45, (for a specific purpose), even though like the XD, they don't seem to have sterling reputations with LE.
I haven't shot the Kahr's so I will not say or repeat any information that I have read or been told about them good or bad. As that just leads to more rumors and discusions like we are having.


But if I were back kicking doors again, I probably wouldn't carry either one.
Yeah, I think a LEO would have a been a great job, but unfortunatly I was unable to become one. I hope that I am not coming across as some icehole as I stated before I like discussing issues like this and debating things.

I am sorry this is off topic I will stop now.

Jeeebus Keerist......

djmorris
01-23-12, 11:04
I can't read any of that above post. :lol:

Jake, I'm not trying to argue with you on all these points - calm down. Why are you dissecting my post trying your hardest to make me look stupid even as I agree with you?! I'm just making conversation!

IMO, the XD series is significantly better than other guns in its price range such as the new generation polymer Sigs (P250, 2022, etc). If it weren't for the roll pin issue it'd be on par with a Glock. The XDM's are basically a rip off at their price point of $100-$200 more than a Glock.

All I'm trying to say is don't write a firearm off because it's an XD/XDM. They are good guns, just overpriced in most cases. The gear they include certainly doesn't make up for it.

My first thought on this new XDS is that the weight is ridiculous. I thought my XD9SC was heavy but the XDS weighs about the same and it's a freakin' single stack pocket pistol.

If I can find it for $400'ish, I'll probably pick it up for concealed carry. Otherwise, might as well go with a Kahr.

Grizzly16
01-23-12, 11:30
If I can find it for $400'ish, I'll probably pick it up for concealed carry. Otherwise, might as well go with a Kahr.

I've never understood cheaping out on something you'll use to save your life.

Skip a few meals eating out or turn the heat down for a month. Buy the gun that serves you best.

djmorris
01-23-12, 13:43
.....

Shoup
01-23-12, 16:16
I guess what I'm confused about is how can the weapon be so small yet weigh more than its similarly sized sub compacts?


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DemonRat
01-23-12, 16:45
I guess what I'm confused about is how can the weapon be so small yet weigh more than its similarly sized sub compacts?


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I am hoping that is the loaded weight. I just weighed my XD .40 S&W Subcompact and its only 32 oz fully loaded with Federal Hydra-Shocks. 9 in the magazine and 1 chambered. I emailed Springfield and asked them about it hopefully they will reply soon and I'll post what they said here once I get the email back.

Jim D
01-23-12, 17:31
deleted....

Alaskapopo
01-23-12, 17:53
Anyone who thinks LEO agencies get guns given to them is nuts. Yes we pay less because we don't have to pay the Federal Excise tax but its not nearly as cheap as many seem to think. The reason the XD is not as popular is lack of support from Springfield (ie no armoers program) and frankly lower quality when compared to guns like the Glock, M&P, HK etc.
Pat

Jake'sDad
01-23-12, 19:16
Anyone who thinks LEO agencies get guns given to them is nuts. Yes we pay less because we don't have to pay the Federal Excise tax but its not nearly as cheap as many seem to think. The reason the XD is not as popular is lack of support from Springfield (ie no armoers program) and frankly lower quality when compared to guns like the Glock, M&P, HK etc.
Pat

During the changeover from revolvers to autos, and again when many agencies went from 9 to .40, there were some pretty sweet deals done, especially with high profile agencies, (straight across trades for old guns, etc.). But you're right, most departments, unless it's LAPD, NYPD, FBI, etc, are paying full boat these days, and I have zero doubt Springfield can be competitive for an agency that wants their guns.

Jake'sDad
01-23-12, 19:20
I guess what I'm confused about is how can the weapon be so small yet weigh more than its similarly sized sub compacts?

Doesn't seem to make much sense, perhaps it is a misprint.

Regardless, even if the weight is more in line with other sub's, they don't seem to have achieved anything earth shattering.

Shoup
01-23-12, 19:51
Doesn't seem to make much sense, perhaps it is a misprint.

Regardless, even if the weight is more in line with other sub's, they don't seem to have achieved anything earth shattering.

No they haven't but I don't like my Glock, my XD has well over 2k rounds through it and the only thing I replaced was my recoil spring. Also I work for a department that has a list of weapons we can and can't use. XD, Glock, M&P, older Smith, Ruger, Sigs, and Berretta automatics, all in DAO. So I will stick with what I feel comfortable with.


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Alaskapopo
01-23-12, 20:10
No they haven't but I don't like my Glock, my XD has well over 2k rounds through it and the only thing I replaced was my recoil spring. Also I work for a department that has a list of weapons we can and can't use. XD, Glock, M&P, older Smith, Ruger, Sigs, and Berretta automatics, all in DAO. So I will stick with what I feel comfortable with.


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An XD is not DAO. Secondly 2K is not that many rounds. Come back and talk to us when you have fired more than 10k. That said I agree you should shoot what you feel comfrtable with and what you shoot well.
Pat

Jake'sDad
01-23-12, 20:27
Jake, I'm not trying to argue with you on all these points - calm down. Why are you dissecting my post trying your hardest to make me look stupid even as I agree with you?! I'm just making conversation!

I am calm......I'm too old not to be calm...

You need to go back and read what you wrote, and what I wrote. If you don't see some problems with how you responded, read them again.

Other than that, take it to PM with me if you'd like some more witty repartee....

Shoup
01-23-12, 21:12
An XD is not DAO. Secondly 2K is not that many rounds. Come back and talk to us when you have fired more than 10k. That said I agree you should shoot what you feel comfrtable with and what you shoot well.
Pat

Never said the xd was dao I know it's a striker fired weapon, the older non polymer handguns have to be dao. Seeing we just added striker fired weapons to our list within the past 2 years, and we aren't handed ammo like candy, I will eventually get to 10k. We also don't get issued anything like weapons, duty gear, or uniforms. We buy it all. The only thing we are given are 50 rounds a year to qualify with our primary weapon, 30 rounds for our AR's, if we're lucky maybe a class in which they'll give us 200 rounds they toss our way every 2 years. I could also probably get to 10k rounds rather quickly if I wasn't in court pretty much Monday through Friday, after working my midnight shift. I simply made a statement about not having problems with my xd, now my Glock has had problems, that has less rounds through it.


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djmorris
01-24-12, 09:14
No they haven't but I don't like my Glock, my XD has well over 2k rounds through it and the only thing I replaced was my recoil spring. Also I work for a department that has a list of weapons we can and can't use. XD, Glock, M&P, older Smith, Ruger, Sigs, and Berretta automatics, all in DAO. So I will stick with what I feel comfortable with.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You replaced your recoil spring after only 2k rounds? May I ask why?

Alaskapopo
01-24-12, 12:54
Never said the xd was dao I know it's a striker fired weapon, the older non polymer handguns have to be dao. Seeing we just added striker fired weapons to our list within the past 2 years, and we aren't handed ammo like candy, I will eventually get to 10k. We also don't get issued anything like weapons, duty gear, or uniforms. We buy it all. The only thing we are given are 50 rounds a year to qualify with our primary weapon, 30 rounds for our AR's, if we're lucky maybe a class in which they'll give us 200 rounds they toss our way every 2 years. I could also probably get to 10k rounds rather quickly if I wasn't in court pretty much Monday through Friday, after working my midnight shift. I simply made a statement about not having problems with my xd, now my Glock has had problems, that has less rounds through it.


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I am not handed ammo like candy either in fact I am in charge of handing it out and I only give myself about 200 rounds a year for qualifications. I shoot the other 10000 rounds or so a year out of my own pocket because I care about my own training.
Pat

Jake'sDad
01-24-12, 13:10
I am not handed ammo like candy either in fact I am in charge of handing it out and I only give myself about 200 rounds a year for qualifications. I shoot the other 10000 rounds or so a year out of my own pocket because I care about my own training.
Pat

That's become more the norm these days. When I was a young cop, they'd give me all the practice ammo I could shoot. Granted, it was reloads, but I took full advantage, and honed my skills enough to not only survive gunfights, but competed and won a bunch of matches as well.

Now it's 50 rounds a month for the guys, unless they're out, which they often are. The guys that are serious about training, buy their own ammo by the case, while others just laugh and say they "ain't shooting unless the department buys it".

Shoup
01-24-12, 18:34
I am not handed ammo like candy either in fact I am in charge of handing it out and I only give myself about 200 rounds a year for qualifications. I shoot the other 10000 rounds or so a year out of my own pocket because I care about my own training.
Pat

I care about my training as well, but I don't have open space to shoot, and very few ranges to choose from. So it gets quite expensive, and seeing I have 2 kids, a house, tuition, and a wife that works, I can't get to the range that often. Plus between court almost everyday, kids, coaching, and a second job I don't have time to reload. I care about my training as well, and jump on any chance our city gives it, I care about my the time with my family a little more I guess. As far as why I changed my recoil spring, we had a firearm safety day and the Springfield rep said I should so he gave me a new spring, then he swapped out all my mags because he said the older ones without the armory mark stamped on them had a problem. I buy my own ammo as well, most people on this department only shoot their 50 a year.


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Alaskapopo
01-24-12, 18:52
I care about my training as well, but I don't have open space to shoot, and very few ranges to choose from. So it gets quite expensive, and seeing I have 2 kids, a house, tuition, and a wife that works, I can't get to the range that often. Plus between court almost everyday, kids, coaching, and a second job I don't have time to reload. I care about my training as well, and jump on any chance our city gives it, I care about my the time with my family a little more I guess. As far as why I changed my recoil spring, we had a firearm safety day and the Springfield rep said I should so he gave me a new spring, then he swapped out all my mags because he said the older ones without the armory mark stamped on them had a problem. I buy my own ammo as well, most people on this department only shoot their 50 a year.


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Not judging and I am lucky in that I don't have kids and I have access to a range to use when I want and I usually don't have to share. All I was saying is 2000 rounds is not that much. I have fired over 2000 rounds preparing for some matches.
Pat

Kickin-Ewoks
01-30-12, 13:45
Apparently we should also take what the vast majority of LE agencies have been choosing with "a grain o' salt" as well.

Since you don't think the opinions of the professionals on M4C are valid, why did you bother to sign up?

Please do not take offense to this but there are many LE agencies and officers choosing DPMS and Bushmaster patrol rifles. Are they experts when it comes to side arms but ignorant with regards to patrol rifles? A quick search on any brand will show they have all had problems.

I have a SA 1911 Loaded, SA 1911 Range Officer, XD .40, XDm 9, and an XDm .40 with thousands of rounds through each. The Loaded has been problematic but the others have never failed. I had an M&P 9 the was also an amazing pistol, never should have sold it.

The worst pistol I've ever owned, due to malfunctions, was a 92FS. I traded it for a Baby Eagle and its far superior the 92 I had. It seems like the Berettas are popular in some government sectors.

Grizzly16
01-30-12, 13:53
Please do not take offense to this but there are many LE agencies and officers choosing DPMS and Bushmaster patrol rifles. Are they experts when it comes to side arms but ignorant with regards to patrol rifles? A quick search on any brand will show they have all had problems.

Buying they cheapest bid or from the best salesman doesn't mean it is a quality rifle.

kingfisher2
03-24-12, 01:39
XDs...Sounds like it's stirring up a huge debate...spent the last 45 mins reading...Blah....Blah...Blah...Ford/Chevy....Colt/Smith...You buy what you want. You shoot what you want. It's your money, enjoy it any way you choose. Who am I or anyone else to tell you differently?

Agree/Disagree...Who cares. If my gun fires when I pull the trigger and it hits the paper AMEN! Its a good day.

Grown Men throwing stones...Makes me laugh:sarcastic:

45 mins...I will never get back.

fdxpilot
03-24-12, 16:55
Doesn't seem to make much sense, perhaps it is a misprint.

Regardless, even if the weight is more in line with other sub's, they don't seem to have achieved anything earth shattering.

Weight on Springfield's site says 21.5oz.

http://www.xdspistol.com/specs.php

Howardsrock
04-13-12, 20:32
Springfield has about a week to bring this thing to market before I buy the S&W Shield....

dfclin073
04-30-12, 14:27
I would love to see a head to head comparison with the Shield.

zxd9
04-30-12, 15:50
Well, thought I'd weigh in with my XD experience. I have the XD9 Tactical and I used it primarily for USPSA competition so it didn't see a lot of slow fire. To date I have 18k+ rounds through it and the only problem was a broken trigger spring around 15k rounds. I change out recoil springs around 5-6k.

Guns require maintenance and springs are gonna break. No big deal.

I too am looking forward to see and touch the XDs.

Jake'sDad
05-26-12, 19:51
Weight on Springfield's site says 21.5oz.

http://www.xdspistol.com/specs.php

Yeah, I saw they corrected it. That makes a little more sense.

fail wagon
08-02-12, 02:20
cant believe that thing is 29 oz, 21 sounds much closer

CLJ94104
08-02-12, 02:53
cant believe that thing is 29 oz, 21 sounds much closer

Mine weighs 21. I think more like 20.9 unloaded.

CLJ94104
08-02-12, 03:09
My XDs with Trijicon HD sights in orange.
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/clj94104/26e07aed.jpg
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/clj94104/f86c9a2d.jpg
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/clj94104/ad03f635.jpg
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/clj94104/4bf62ae2.jpg

My XDs on the scale:
Fully loaded 5+1 with SD loads. 3 Gold Dot 230gr and 3 Liberty Ammunition Halo Points.
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/clj94104/IMG_1103.jpg
Completely empty XDs.
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/clj94104/IMG_1105.jpg

My iPhone4 didn't capture the scale photos really well. Hopefully you guys can make out the readings, I will break them down below.

Fully loaded: 1lb 9.2oz - 25.2oz
Completely empty: 1lb 3.6oz - 19.6oz

CLJ94104
08-02-12, 03:42
-Size comparisons of my current XD family-
XDs .45ACP vs XDm .40S&W 3.8 Compact vs XDm .40S&W 4.5:
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/clj94104/IMG_0145.jpg
XDs .45ACP vs XDm .40S&W 3.8 Compact:
With these two images you can really see where the "slim" part comes into play.
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/clj94104/IMG_0146.jpg
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/clj94104/IMG_0148.jpg
Another closer image of the XDs .45ACP vs XDm .40S&W 3.8 Compact:
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/clj94104/IMG_0150.jpg
An image of the XDs .45ACP vs XDm .40S&W 4.5:
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff469/clj94104/IMG_0149.jpg

CLJ94104
10-16-12, 01:19
Pretty good review of this handgun here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG71E0SZYbA&feature=share&list=UUZ-qxagOkAmCEP-Tu6YliUQ

MFWIC2
10-19-12, 12:28
Never had a SA XD, but I might give it a try.
This might be my next CCW.:)