cane and derby holsters [Archive] - M4Carbine.net Forums

bdcheung

01-24-12, 09:01

So I contacted Cane and Derby a few days ago asking about lead time. I got their permission to repost the entire email here:

Hi bdcheung,

The lead time depends on the product. Our Pardus Full Cut holsters are holding at about 6 weeks, while the old-style Pardus Appendix Rigs were taking up to 12 weeks to get out to customers. These lead times would occasionally fluctuate, depending on whether we've done a run of a particular holster (like black straight-drop Glock 17s, for example) and happen to have them ready to send to customers. We're pretty backlogged though, so it's been a while since we've been able to 'get ahead.'

We don't like having lead times like that, and we've been working very hard to get our lead times down across the board. New, more streamlined techniques and revisions to the products to ensure quality, consistency, and production speed have all been put into place. Our goal is to bring *all* products down to 4 weeks (or less).

The new PIC system is part of that effort, and we're proud to be able to produce them very quickly. All orders for Pardus Appendix Holsters placed on or after January 6th, 2012 will be for the new PIC System Holster. We have a team dedicated to producing only new orders, keeping lead times at our goal of 4 weeks, while a separate team handles pending orders (prior to Jan 6).

All that being said, I just re-read your question and you were asking about your order specifically, lol. You've got a PIC for your M&P9C in the queue and it ought to be out to you well within our 4-week lead time. I've been battling a cold all week and thought you were asking about lead times in general... sorry about the super-long preamble! I need to cut down on the cold meds, lol...

Hopefully that answers your questions. If you have any additional questions or require more information, please don't hesitate to contact us.

I then responded asking if I could repost the email, to which they replied:

Brian,

Sure, I have no problem with you sharing the information on public forums. We've got nothing to hide, and tell all of our customers the same thing when they ask.

Here's a bit more info you can add, if you'd like.

We're working pretty hard to keep everyone up-to-date, address any and all who contact us, and putting into place whatever it takes to keep customers happy.

Since January 6th, we've implemented this new support-ticket system which has helped to virtually eliminate the "lost email syndrome" that was happening with some customers who tried to contact us. For a while we thought we must've been going through some unprecedented failure in our email system, so we put this into place to eliminate lost communication. All requests via direct email or our contact pages automatically insert the information into a database that routes emails according to the request and schedules follow-ups within our 24-business-hour response period. Email notifications are still sent, of course (that's unavoidable) but all communication is logged, timestamped, and visible to the customer at any time (they just have to log in.)

We have a new call-logging system in place so that *all* calls are forwarded to the right people, logged, and follow-up call scheduling is enforced so we call anybody who calls us within our 24-business-hour support period. This is internal, but it has improved our responsiveness dramatically and reduced the amount of calls that 'slip through the cracks'. Some customers complained that they can't reach us on the phone when they call - and that's true. We simply don't have the time or resources to have someone sitting in the office all day waiting for the phone to ring - we've got too much work to do. That's why we have our call-back policy in place; when there's a break, we catch up on support emails and phone calls. Our call-logging helps us immensely with this, but I cannot for the life of me understand why customers will call us but never leave a voice-mail.

We have a new order-status system in place. The new order-status system is much more detailed and offers a lot more visibility to the customer. This has been somewhat confusing, even in-house, as we try to consolidate our old system and new status systems, along with our production-line system. We've asked people to bear with us as we go through this 'growing pain' and it smooths itself out with time.

We still don't charge people until their order is literally walking out the door to the post office. This was originally in place to prevent the customer feeling that we're sitting with their money and they'll never see a product. It's a policy that will stay in place for the foreseeable future as we continue to work through our backlog and address new orders.

We've built a good reputation for producing a high-quality product and our excellent customer service. It's extremely disconcerting when we stumble and our reputation suffers because of it, but we're trying our hardest to address every issue and every obstacle as it comes. We ask our customers to be patient and we promise to deliver the best quality product that we can as quickly as we can produce it. We won't outsource to save a few bucks, we won't skimp or cut corners to get the product out faster, and we're *all* working to get everyone their product as fast as possible.

So that's the long and the short of it Brian. I've shared this information with many, many customers and gotten nothing but patience and support, and we sincerely appreciate it. You're welcome to share the information with friends, colleagues, what have you - hopefully it will be received with understanding and support. We're doing the best we can, and we have nothing but appreciation for our customers.

I hope the additional information is helpful as well, and if you need more info or have any questions about our products please don't hesitate to contact us. Have a great evening!

kartoffel

01-24-12, 09:56

Thanks, Brian. For the record, I haven't cancelled my order yet since it hasn't quite been 6 weeks. Just concerned because others in this thread have been waiting MUCH longer.

Apparently, they've changed their appendix holster design and will be contacting outstanding orders to ask if customers want the old style or the new style... so at least I know they'll be contacting before they start cutting kydex..... right?

From http://www.caneandderbynews.com/category/news/cane-and-derby-news/

What does this mean if you’ve already ordered one of our 2011 Pardus Appendix Rigs?
...
All new orders for Pardus Appendix rigs will be for the 2012 PIC with APP mount. And don’t worry if you already ordered and are waiting on a Pardus Appendix Rig: all pending Pardus Appendix Rig orders will be notified via email and given the option of converting their order over to the new PIC holster.

kartoffel

01-24-12, 10:10

Anybody got a link to Cane & Derby's mythical trouble ticket system? I'm logged into my account on their site, looking at my pending order, and for the life of me I can't find it. :confused::confused::confused:

Since January 6th, we've implemented this new support-ticket system which has helped to virtually eliminate the "lost email syndrome" that was happening with some customers who tried to contact us.

I am calling bullshit. They've got a phone number, an email address, and a "contact us" form, all of which appear to work just fine... but that is it. No support ticket system. See highlighted text in the quote below:

For a while we thought we must've been going through some unprecedented failure in our email system, so we put this into place to eliminate lost communication. All requests via direct email or our contact pages automatically insert the information into a database that routes emails according to the request and schedules follow-ups within our 24-business-hour response period. Email notifications are still sent, of course (that's unavoidable) but all communication is logged, timestamped, and visible to the customer at any time (they just have to log in.)

Visible, my ass. :mad:

DYNAMIC AMATEUR

01-25-12, 01:34

I ordered from Cane and derby July 26, 2011. Sent an email in November requesting guesstimated delivery date. NO REPLY from C&D :mad::mad:

Item ordered: Pardus Low Profile Pistol Magazine Carrier.

Current order status: Order in queue for production as of January 25th. 6 months later for a magazine carrier???

Waiting 6 months doesn't piss me off. Waiting 6 months and no response to my email will piss me off.

If you ask me why I didn't send another email, my response will be "it's called customer service, it shouldn't take multiple emails to get a response"

masternave

01-25-12, 08:20

They have always been quick to respond to me. They said that their lead time on the new PIC holster series is going to be quite low.

Zhurdan

01-25-12, 09:09

Anybody got a link to Cane & Derby's mythical trouble ticket system? I'm logged into my account on their site, looking at my pending order, and for the life of me I can't find it. :confused::confused::confused:

I am calling bullshit. They've got a phone number, an email address, and a "contact us" form, all of which appear to work just fine... but that is it. No support ticket system. See highlighted text in the quote below:

Visible, my ass. :mad:

Weird. While it may not be visible at this point, they do apparently have a ticket system and each of my info requests has been answered within 24 hours. Besides, I hardly ever order something that I need yesterday so I'm not overly concerned if it takes a while, but as others have said, I would be if they weren't getting back to me. Fortunately for me, they are doing so in a timely manner.

[#1741XX] Contact Form

Cane and Derby Customer Support

Jan 20 (4 days ago)

to me
Jeff XXXXXX,

A customer support staff member has replied to your support request, #1741XX with the following response:

Confirmed. We'll update your order.

Thanks so much!

We hope this response has sufficiently answered your questions. If not, please do not send another email. Instead, reply to this email or login to your account for a complete archive of all your support requests and responses.

http://www.caneandderbynews.com/support/view.php?e=XXXXXXX-XXX&t=1741XX

Support Dept

senorlinc

01-25-12, 21:34

I placed my order online during a "customer appreciation" sale back in September. Prior to ordering, I spoke with a C&D rep on the phone for quite some time regarding colour, cut, cant etc to make sure I was ordering the appropriate holster for my application. I never saw my CC charged and quite frankly assumed the order was never received. Well I am glad that I saw this thread as I was searching for alternative holster ideas. I went to the C&D site and noticed that they do indeed have my order (#443) in "queue for production". I am not going to waste my time attempting to ascertain an estimated shipping date and will likely pick up a Fricke in the interim. If I do indeed receive this sometime in the future, I hope that it will be a plesent surprise

expeditionary

01-26-12, 07:32

I figure Id add to this as well. I have two orders with them. Since 01 december contact has been sporadic at best. Up until that point I had good dialogue with Ian, and then it stopped. I put a ticket in through the site and he got back to me after a short period of time.

I ordered a holster/mag carrier for my M&P in 05/2011 and received them in 09/2011. Only issues was rounds were pointed in the wrong direction from what I requested. We have gone back and forth on this, and I was told the new one was being shipped in december. I still do not have it and am awaiting a response from Ian about this. In the mean time, I placed a second order in 07/2011 for a holster/2x mag carriers for my G27.

As we were going back and forth about the m&p mag carrier, I was told that the other stuff was just about ready. I got a package last week containing my two mag carriers for the G27. Rounds for this one are correct (l side carry rounds facing aft). Only issue is I did not get belt loops with them. I have mag carriers and no way to carry them.

As we stand, Ian had told me he was sick in December and apologized for the comms blackout, but subsequent attempts to get him to fix this havent been responded to. Out of the two holsters and 3 mag carriers, the only 100% correct piece was the m&p holster. I have no G27 holster yet, 2 mag carriers with no belt loops and a mag carrier that is assembled, but not built to my specs. Needless to say, between these guys and SCW, I have a few outstanding pieces, and the CS has diminished quite rapidly. CDI turns out a solid product, but Im still waiting for the whole picture, not just the pieces.

kartoffel

01-26-12, 09:36

I sent CDI a message through their "contact us" web form, to see if it might trigger the visibility of their new ticket system. It worked! CDI replied to my message right away. Although today coincidentally marks their blown 6-week deadline for my order, I'm willing to let it ride a little bit longer to see where this ends up.

Try this link, y'all: http://www.caneandderbynews.com/support/

Correspondence follows below. So far, so good. Let's see if they have photos of the new appendix holster style up by COB tomorrow.

Tue, Jan 24 2012 11:25am

Name: ****
E-mail: ****
Telephone: ****

Comment: This Thursday, the 26th of January will mark 6 weeks since you received my order, #****. According to your news feed, Cane and Derby is offering outstanding orders a choice between the old style and new style of appendix holster, but I haven't been contacted yet. When should I expect you to contact me? Also, do you have any photos of the new style holster? Thanks, ****.

Wed, Jan 25 2012 1:29pm - **** (A CDI Person)
Mr ****,

Pictures will be up on Friday sir. From there, toss us an email and let us know how you would like to proceed. A full description of the changes to the holster will be included with the photos so if any questions remain, do not hesitate to contact us.

Sincerely,

The CDI Team.

bdcheung

01-26-12, 09:41

Anybody got a link to Cane & Derby's mythical trouble ticket system?

http://www.caneandderbynews.com/support/view.php

Admittedly, the navigation path to the link is not optimized, as it actually sends you to a domain that's different from the eCommerce site.

bc5000

01-27-12, 15:40

After reading the stories here, I don't see myself being treated any better.

Yesterday was the 5 week mark. If it still shows the "order in queue for production" at week 7 or 8, then I'll cancel.

I'm just going to go ahead and order from someone else, and if by some miracle Cane & Derby delivers then I'll just have to sell one.

Mak8080

01-27-12, 15:59

They do make some great holsters. I was lucky enough to get a few from another person who didn't need the holsters/mag pouches any more. Ride high and tight. Thick kydex and good retention.

Unfortunately, I placed an order late last summer. I more or less forgot about it. Like a previous poster mentioned. I don't mind waiting, but no comm is just not acceptable. Even if they tell me that it'll be weeks/months later. It's too bad, their stuff is very comparable to my Raven gear.

kartoffel

01-27-12, 19:19

Well, it's pretty much the close of regular business hours on Friday. Ian Goodman promised me they'd have pictures of their revised appendix holster design up by today..... no joy. I have followed up using their trouble ticket system. Their phone number just redirects you to a robo-system where you can leave a message.

senorlinc's order was #443 in September 2011. Mine was #525 on December 15th. Assuming they're using sequential order numbers, that's roughly one holster order per day. Doesn't sound like much of a booming business, which is too bad 'cause I have heard such good things about their products.

On the other hand if they're really only having to crank out one holster a day... well... I'll just keep that tidbit in my back pocket in case anyone from CDI comes up with a sob story about being swamped.

PlatoCATM

01-27-12, 20:53

#289 in July. No word. Nothing. This is my first and last order, there are too many competitors, and even off the shelf products.

bdcheung

01-28-12, 06:42

My order number is 100000571 placed 1/10/12.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

HardToHandle

01-29-12, 18:25

Get in Line...

"1000003xx - Pre-stage: Order in queue for production

Order Date: July 13, 2011"

Six months and change...

bc5000

01-29-12, 19:55

Get in Line...

"1000003xx - Pre-stage: Order in queue for production

Order Date: July 13, 2011"

Six months and change...

Just think, if you would have placed your order with Raven Concealment, you would have had your holster 2 months ago.

I ordered a G19 holster and mag carrier from a guy at Glock Talk. Should take about a week. They are pretty much a Raven clone.

obucina

01-29-12, 23:13

me wonders....wouldnt it be easier to just suspend new order processing and work on a 4/6/8 week deadline? Get customers their stuff and once caught up, take orders again....

Atomic Dog announced this same decision on their facebook page a while back and it seemed to work for them.....

trinydex

01-29-12, 23:35

it would depend on how many new people they brought on. the less they brought on the more a suspension of orders would make sense. if they brought on a lot of people then they can't afford to lose orders and create confusion.

smithjd

01-30-12, 21:32

I spoke with Ian today...

I ordered my holster at the end of Sept and had excellent customer service at first. Then...not so much. I took the 45 day quote with a grain of salt, based on other stuff I had heard, and they were right. But, I also heard the holsters were high quality and are very competitively priced.

I was ready to cancel the order today. Ian said my order was in final assembly (didn't say that on website) and would ship Friday, and I should pget it next week.

I will let you know when I get them. They haven't charged me yet and said they won't until it ships.

I've always said, "You can have it right, fast, and cheap...pick any two."

expeditionary

01-31-12, 09:15

Smith

Take that quote with a grain of salt please. I was told that my package was "in final production" and "ready to ship " 12/01. I received an incomplete package a couple of weeks ago. it was in no way what I was told I was getting.

BTW - what method did you get in contact through? I emailed him a list of my issues, and it has conveniently gone without response. Im going to try again today.

kartoffel

01-31-12, 12:04

From Jose Sierra at CDI, Monday January 30th:

Your order (#525) is currently scheduled to ship on Monday Feb 6. We have been preemptively producing PIC holsters for Glocks and M&Ps in anticipation of the high demand, so both styles will be available by your ship date; you just need to let us know which style you prefer (Pardus or PIC), which I know is a decision you've been waiting for photography to make.

I've mentioned this to a few of our customers, and I'll be happy to mention it again. We originally had a photo-shoot of our products planned when we announced them. Due to our camera being dropped on the facility floor, lens first, that photo shoot was delayed until we could get our hands on another DSLR.

One of our employees graciously offered to allow us to use his rig for photography last week, and we took a whole slew of photos (which our customers have been asking for). Unfortunately, that employee has been somewhat slow to get us the memory card with the photographs. Long story short, I gave him until today to get us the photos so we could (finally) send out all the marcom we've got sitting in the wings, awaiting the fresh photography.

These photos are currently being transferred to our graphic designer, who will prep the photos and have them ready for release in our marcom. I've taken the designer off the floor today and tasked him with this, even if he has to stay late tonight to get it done. Anyway, I'm as tired as our customers of not having those photos ready, and it's something that needs to be completed immediately. Now that we finally have the photos in hand, we can do so.

These are the items that will be released: a side-by-side comparison of the original Pardus Appendix Holster vs the new PIC System Holster, and a re-sending of the original email blast that was supposed to go out to all of our customers (but apparently never made it). We're using a new service to get the newsletter/email out, and hopefully we'll have a better success rate. The CDI website will have all the updated information, as will the CDI blog. Both links will be available through the newsletter/email as well.

Our customer service manager was under the impression that this would all be ready by Friday (because that's when we had originally agreed that the photos would be in our hands). I apologize for the miscommunication.

If you require additional information, please don't hesitate to contact me directly. I am sorry that your expectation to receive photographs on Friday wasn't met, but we're working to get them out as quickly as possible.

TacCommE21

01-31-12, 20:49

+1 for PSS.

I ordered one of their "ready" pieces a few weeks ago for a G19. Was here in three days. Fit and finish is top notch. Retention was perfect. Truly a solid piece of gear. As long as they have a ready config for your application, why wait? Even if they don't, it is easily worth the lead time. Plus Steve is a member here and will readily answer questions and concerns.

FWIW, Cane and Derby's stuff looked sub-par to me. With poor CS, why bother?

senorlinc

02-02-12, 20:06

Last night in a moment of weakness I broke down and used C&D's support system to submit a help ticket. received a reply today.

to ME,

A customer support staff member has replied to your support request, #171918 with the following response:

Mr. "Senorlinc",

I do apologize for the confusion, we've been experiencing some difficulties reconciling our online status system with our order status system in the production area.

Your Pardus holster is done and awaiting shipment, we're just waiting on your IWB rubber belt loops - we're currently out of them and we're waiting on a shipment this coming week. We should be getting them on Wednesday or Thursday, and your order will ship immediately after.

Hope that helps, please let us know if we can help you with anything else, and again: we apologize for the confusion!

We hope this response has sufficiently answered your questions. If not, please do not send another email. Instead, reply to this email or login to your account for a complete archive of all your support requests and responses.

Support Dept"

they "apologize for the confusion" ? Frankly I was not confused until I saw this post. I had assumed long ago my order was never received. Now I see a laundry list of excuses offered to several different customers by various folks at C&D. What has me really confused is that if they have several people working for them, a comprehensive webpage, customer service, phone lines, email, facebook page & promotions, blog etc. yet have only received 500 or so orders over the past 8 months, why have there been so many issues and so many excuses? It seems that they spend quite a bit of time to work on the selling and marketing of their products yet not much time producing it or servicing their customers. I would have appreciated a "hey we havent forgotten you" email update or back log notice etc. I'm glad they offered to "help me with any thing else", maybe shipping the holster now and sending the IWB loops for free would be a nice gesture....

bdcheung

02-02-12, 20:42

expeditionary

02-02-12, 21:17

I used the website to contact them as I hadnt gotten an email response. here goes:

A customer support staff member has replied to your support request, #xxxxx with the following response:

Mr exp,

We had sent out those replacement mag pouches with the intent of you transferring the loops from your existing mag pouches. Normally, we would have done an RMA but to keep things simplified we figured, "lets just send over some pouches and the loops can be swapped onto the "correct" pieces of gear."

I hope that makes sense.

Now, if i am reading this correct, we seem to have a miscommunication here as you did NOT have two original Glock carriers to take the belt loops off of?

We definitely seem to have a gap in our production system here and i want to get this corrected IMMEDIATELY and gear shipped to you IMMEDIATELY.

Please confirm with me what exactly is owed (reiterate) and we will make this happen.

-Ian

I placed 2 orders with you guys. The first order was for a holster and mag carrier for my M&P. I got the order in 09/2011, and the mag carrier had the rounds facing the wrong way. It was one holster on single mag carrier for the M&P not the glock. This was what I had originally contacted you guys for. I have the mag holder with the belt loops on it in my possession, just the shell for that was wrong.

My second order was for a pardus for my G27 and two single mag carriers with quick on off belt loops. You guys sent me the shells for those mag carriers only, 2 weeks ago (about). So i have 2x single mag carriers with no belt loops and no holster.
Here are the order numbers and the info so hopefully it makes sense.

Order xxxxx I received back in September. The order was:
M&P .40 Pardus holster R side carry 15 degree cant (RECEIVED and correct)
1 Mag carrier for .40 M&P mag L side carry rounds facing rear (received a rounds facing forward one which is why I initially contacted you to have it switched but never got the replacement for)

From that order I still need the mag carrier corrected.

Order xxxxx from July:
Glock 27 .40 Pardus R side carry 15 deg cant with 1.5 belt loops (pre production according to website)
2x .40 glock mag carriers with quick on off belt loops (I got the carriers yesterday, shells only no belt loops/hardware).

Again, let me know what we can do to get this all squared away. Thanks again

this has been their response to the web contact and my email back to them. I will post an update if/when I get a response. Dont hold your breath waiting on me though. :sarcastic:

senorlinc

02-03-12, 08:03

But then people would complain about receiving an incomplete order. Or a holster they couldn't use because it had no loops.

Have you told them "Hey, you know what would make me a really happy customer? If you send me my holster now and the loops whenever they arrive, I'd be tickled pink."

Good companies want to make their customers happy. Great companies never assume what makes their customers happy.

I would not complain about a holster with no loops as the holster is made as an OWB. The extra loops were to give me flexibility.

And I did in fact write to C&D and requested that my holster ship immediately and that I receive the loops when they come in and at no charge. Here is the reply...

Mr. Slipakoff,

Sure, that sounds fair enough. We'll have the production lead shift your order to the shipping department tomorrow. Once the shipment of IWB loops arrives next week, we'll send a set over and we'll cover the additional shipping cost.

I'm sorry that your expectations for customer service and communication weren't met - we work very hard to maintain an active line of communication with customers, especially since we've been so backlogged. Hopefully the quality of the product will make up for your outstanding patience.

Mr. Slipakoff,

Sure, that sounds fair enough. We'll have the production lead shift your order to the shipping department tomorrow. Once the shipment of IWB loops arrives next week, we'll send a set over and we'll cover the additional shipping cost.

I'm sorry that your expectations for customer service and communication weren't met - we work very hard to maintain an active line of communication with customers, especially since we've been so backlogged. Hopefully the quality of the product will make up for your outstanding patience.

Mr. Senorlinc,

Sure, that sounds fair enough. We'll have the production lead shift your order to the shipping department tomorrow. Once the shipment of IWB loops arrives next week, we'll send a set over and we'll cover the additional shipping cost.

I'm sorry that your expectations for customer service and communication weren't met - we work very hard to maintain an active line of communication with customers, especially since we've been so backlogged. Hopefully the quality of the product will make up for your outstanding patience.

Problem solved. I hope C&D learns a lesson from this and I hope to receive an outstanding product that will serve me well for many years. Do I dare say that I will review it next week????

bc5000

02-05-12, 12:27

It will be 7 weeks this coming Thursday that I ordered the Pardus Full-Cut Holster.

Estimated lead time was 6 weeks, which apparently they are still telling new customers for that style holster.

I sent them a message through their ticket system at the link posted earlier asking if it's ready. Don't expect to hear back till Monday.

If it's not ready now or within the week, I'm canceling my order.

littlejerry

02-06-12, 20:52

I'm a fan of my C&D AIWB rig. I 'm tempted to order the new design to check their claims.

bdcheung

02-07-12, 07:43

My quoted 4-week lead time ends today. I've sent C&D an email using their ticket system asking about order status (still says "Pre-Stage: Order in queue for production") and will report back.

bdcheung

02-07-12, 09:43

Their response:

Hi **********,

I just got into the office, sorry about the delay in getting back to you (man, you're up early!)

I checked with production, and you're on schedule to be out this week. Our production lead just told me that you were supposed to ship out last week, but we've had a shortage of rubber loops for the PIC rigs that is delaying shipment by a few days until those loops come in.

Hope that answers your question...

We hope this response has sufficiently answered your questions. If not, please do not send another email. Instead, reply to this email or login to your account for a complete archive of all your support requests and responses.

http://www.caneandderbynews.com/support/view.php?e=*******@******.***&t=******

drsal

02-07-12, 11:45

I picked one up at a local store (Lou's Police Supply in Miami) for a Glock 19, reasonable price and pretty much the same as a raven concealment.

jamaicanj

02-07-12, 19:54

I picked one up at a local store (Lou's Police Supply in Miami) for a Glock 19, reasonable price and pretty much the same as a raven concealment.

I did not realize that Lou's was carrying C&D stuff. Which holster did you pick up?

drsal

02-07-12, 21:03

Don't recall the model name/# but it fits the glock 19 & 26

PlatoCATM

02-07-12, 22:16

I got an email stating they were "upgrading" all pending orders to the new PIC holster. Does anyone have experience with both or the new holster to say whether or not I should request the old design? I would have rather had my holster by now instead of waiting for them to develop a new system with the capital they raised off 8 month's worth of orders.

jamaicanj

02-07-12, 22:35

Don't recall the model name/# but it fits the glock 19 & 26

Is it an owb or iwb holster? Thanks

bdcheung

02-08-12, 08:22

My credit card was charged yesterday.

We are at 4 weeks + 1 day on my order, which was quoted as a 4-week lead time.

kartoffel

02-08-12, 09:11

The fun never ends at CDI:

Tue, Feb 7 2012 1:38pm - From J. S.
Mr. Kartoffel,

I was just following up on your order with our production lead to make sure it went out on Feb 6, when he told me that it has been delayed a few days due to a shortage of belt loops.

We're expecting a shipment of belt loops to come in any day now, and as soon as they come in we'll be shipping your order out.

I just wanted to take a moment to keep you updated.

Weds, Feb 8 2012 10:08am - From Kartoffel:

Yesterday, J.S. tried to tell me that "my order" was delayed because CDI has run out of belt loops. I'm not sure how you could be ready to ship my order when you still don't even know which style of holster I've ordered. In fact, I couldn't even tell you which style of holster to ship me, as I'm still waiting for photos that I. G. promised me 12 days ago.

bdcheung

02-08-12, 09:25

Growing pains.

Hopefully they come out on the RCS side of things, and not the SCW or Garrity side.

bc5000

02-08-12, 09:35

They never responded to my email sent last week about the status of my order. I just sent another, but this time through their contact page.

bdcheung

02-08-12, 09:43

They never responded to my email sent last week about the status of my order. I just sent another, but this time through their contact page.

I've been using their ticket system to email back-and-forth and have always gotten a response within hours.

Like I said, it looks like they're experiencing growing pains. They have a great CRM (customer relationship management) solution, but access to it isn't immediately apparent through their sales site. They're grandfathering one product design for a new one and obviously don't have a well-executed strategy for handling back orders.

bc5000

02-08-12, 10:06

The first attempt was through the ticket system.

I might try ian@caneandderby.com too.

mercop

02-08-12, 10:37

Granted I have not even held one, but my looking at the site the holsters do not look like anything special. I would not wait that long for leather much less kydex. There are better options with people who deliver.- George

bc5000

02-08-12, 11:26

Finally got a response from CDI. They said my shell is pressed and is awaiting belt loops and that it should be ready in 10 days.

trinydex

02-08-12, 12:40

bdcheung

02-08-12, 12:44

mercop

02-08-12, 12:49

I have seen a lot of kydex in the way of knife sheaths and holsters. The problem seems to be that the big guys have a long weight, and the little guys just don't seem to do that last 20% to make their work great. The best sheaths and holsters I have ever seen hands down are from Matt Ciambrello of www.invictuskydex.com. I have sever knife sheaths, holsters, P mag pouch, and other stuff that he has made and it is awesome. You can see more of his stuff on Facebook- George

rob_s

02-08-12, 12:58

I own several CDi holsters, and while they may be having lead-time issues I can tell you that their stuff, on the whole, IS a cut above the typical small-time garage manufacturer.

To return the volley, re: Invictus, "my looking at the site the holsters do not look like anything special."

bdcheung

02-08-12, 13:02

The best sheaths and holsters I have ever seen hands down are from Matt Ciambrello of www.invictuskydex.com.

Am I missing something, or does he only offer three products:

P380 pocket holster
Pmag holster
Boker Subclaw Sheath

trinydex

02-08-12, 13:09

RCS, for one.

They are head and shoulders above most of the other kydex holster companies out there. Lead times are long, but their CS and communications are superb. I've never felt like I was being lied to or misled when dealing with Raven Concealment.

I looked at rcs's acr and only found one review that was worth reading. Unfortunately it did not include pics of the rig being worn which really didnt help the cause. I still havent seen how it sits or rides with that whole yoke system.

mercop

02-08-12, 13:10

Check out facebook (http://www.facebook.com/InvictusKydex?sk=photos), he is sort of a computer retard. His holsters are nothing special. Just good holsters- George

bdcheung

02-08-12, 13:12

I looked at rcs's acr and only found one review that was worth reading. Unfortunately it did not include pics of the rig being worn which really didnt help the cause. I still havent seen how it sits or rides with that whole yoke system.

Here are some images I found with Google Image Search. The ACR is height and cant adjustable.

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j22/mercop/ACR005-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v21/Denny347/Glock/RavenG27ACR1.jpg

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/IMG_1489-1_Large_.JPG

mercop

02-08-12, 13:13

LOL, that first picture is me. I named it the ACR:D

Here are more pics from Invictus (http://www.invictuskydex.com/page1/page1.html)

trinydex

02-08-12, 16:00

Here are some images I found with Google Image Search. The ACR is height and cant adjustable.

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j22/mercop/ACR005-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v21/Denny347/Glock/RavenG27ACR1.jpg

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/IMG_1489-1_Large_.JPG

my bad. i have seen those pictures, i should have phrased my comment more clearly.

i had reservation about ordering the acr because i don't know how that yoke fits in the pants and how it affects everything. i realize that it is there to keep the load even on both sides of the holster, which makes draw more consistent, preventing holster cant etc. these are important and purposeful design features of the platform.

what i couldn't garner from reviews and pictures was how comfortable that yoke was, if it was curved, if it touched the thigh, or sat in the crevice between the leg and pelvis, or anything of that sort. i could see from the picture that it didn't print, but a big part of addressing appendix carry for me was making sure sitting for long periods of time is comfortable. (side note: the reason i got the pardus was because the holster's footprint seems to be deliberately minimized.)

i didn't find any sitting pictures or even comments on if they yoke touches the thigh etc etc.

wish someone would do a real comprehensive review. this might be slightly gay, but i'd like to see pictures of how it sits inside the pants both standing and sitting or a video of someone with pants on patting down where the holster "is" underneath clothing both sitting and standing.

i know i sound like i'm demanding something and i definitely don't feel entitled to a fulfillment. i'm just clarifying that with the information that was available, i didn't quite want to pick the acr. if the information was available it would have greatly affected my decision making process.

bdcheung

02-08-12, 16:06

I worries. I have an ACR and can take some photos tonight. PM me with any specific shots you'd like to see and I'll do my best to accommodate.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

trinydex

02-08-12, 19:42

I worries. I have an ACR and can take some photos tonight. PM me with any specific shots you'd like to see and I'll do my best to accommodate.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

does the yoke touch your leg or pelvic area? is it comfortable to sit with upright posture?

can you take a picture of you sitting down with the holster? maybe point out where the yoke is while you're taking the picture sitting down, maybe one standing up too. that'd be pretty useful.

maybe we should set up a different thread and put a link in this one so that people shopping for an acr don't end up being confused by a cane and derby thread.

bdcheung

02-08-12, 21:15

deleted

PlatoCATM

02-09-12, 05:13

This thread is about cane and derby. If you want to compare holsters or talk about something completely different start a new thread.

smithjd

02-11-12, 13:25

I received my order of a Pardus OWB holster / mag pouch combination for both my 1911 and MP45 yesterday.

I originally ordered the 1911 set in late Sep 2011 and added the MP45 to the order in early Nov 2011. Additionally, these were "special order" in that I asked them to be made in .093 kydex rather than standard .080 configuration for extra durability, even though Ian suggested it was unnecessary. I wear it most all of every day and have it on now.

They arrived and upon initial screening, look like very high quality holsters.

My MP45 is with a yungin' going through the academy, so all I can attest to is the 1911. I'd previously been using a Hoffner's kydex holster of a different design and this is the first time I've tried the 'pancake' style holster. It definitely fits differently; i.e. MUCH closer to the body and with two point of contact on the belt, seems to distribute the weight differenly and feels actually lighter.

My 1911 if very secure / tight in the holster. It really snaps in and takes some effort to draw it. The belt / platform needs to be very stable or it won't come out easily. I anticipate this will wear in with some practice, it already has a little bit.

I obviouly cannot speak to durability yet, but I am hopeful that they will be as durable as advertised, and if not, will try out C&D's customer service.

In short, I am - so far - happy with the quality / design of the holsters and are a good value. I would hope Ian is working on the production speed and lead times. I imagine that a small company can get swamped pretty fast when they turn out a good product and make it to the big time on the internet, and take that into account.

bdcheung

02-11-12, 15:06

I got my tracking number yesterday for my PIC holster order placed 1/6/12.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Batt 57

03-03-12, 05:47

I received my C&D for my Tanfo Match this week. So far so good. Shot one USPSA match with it this week and will shoot IDPA today.

11375

11376

trinydex

03-07-12, 21:21

just got my shipping notification today.

bc5000

03-08-12, 21:41

It's been 30 days since they told me my holster was done and awaiting belt loops and that I should have it in 10 business days. Next week will be 3 mos since I placed the order.

bc5000

03-09-12, 12:02

Canceled the order.

I was going to give them till next Thursday which would have been exactly 12 weeks but I'm in a bad mood today from other customer service issues.

trinydex

03-11-12, 01:31

i have had two days to evaluate the pardus pic appendix rig.

perhaps what i note here is preliminary, but i don't see things changing too much beyond this.

the system is sound. the pic modification is essentially a yoke plate that allows the holster to be mounted deeper and has a protrusion that when tightened down on torques the holster so that the butt of the gun hugs the body more.

the pic yoke also allows you to drill holes in different places to adjust cant and ride height without removing material from the actual holster.

i had to drill a hole to get the cant correct for my gun and my body shape.

i have done a lot of driving in the last two days, at least 7 hours in a row. the cant was not optimized until much of this driving was finished. my crotch hurts.

i would venture to say at this point that appendix carry is not more comfortable than kidney carry. however that is not the highest priority for me.

i would say that appendix carry allows for
faster draw
better weapon retention
faster and easier reholstering
better seated access
better concealment from seated position and leaning
smaller profile/bulk in a seat of a car/airplane

i would say kidney carry offers
superior concealment
better overall comfort
better behavior when bending over at the cost of printing

the holster is well made. while there isn't a "click" sound of retention when reholstering, the gun isn't falling out.

the holster from the factory rides deep and this means that even on a g26 i'm getting stabbed in the leg to pelvis junction. i don't know if this is just different for people who are taller or larger, but i'm not the tallest person and i'm not overweight. i also wear tight clothing and i don't wear my pants at my bellybutton.

with all this in mind i adjusted one strap on the holster a little lower so that the gun would angle such that the slide points towards centerline more. with this adjustment an excellent grip can still be very quickly established (the grip of the gun is not hidden under the waistline of the pants)

the tip of the holster stabs less now. i have to qualify that i anticipate that my body will become accustomed, toughen up to the new object that will constantly be there, just like my body had to get used to kidney carry, which became essentially second nature. another note is that the stabbing is necessary. if the slide section of the holster does not stab you somewhat, then the gun will just flop out of your pants, and or the butt will print strongly and poke out of your shirt.

appendix carry is difficult to conceal if you don't wear extremely baggy shirts. thinner t-shirts, even if they are gangster baggy will show both your rear sight and the butt of the gun. it seems to me that what's needed is dark colors with thicker materials. lighter colored thinner material shirts will have the additional problem of showing your night sights when you go somewhere dark. people will ask you why you're glowing, especially from your crotch.

i didn't expect this holster to work some sort of magic, i knew it would be difficult to conceal, but speed and retention plus vehicle performance is important to me. it's difficult learning to walk around with a big fupa. i'm lean and fit... concealing is difficult for people my size in general, i'd say concealing appendix carry is just harder. i find myself constantly looking down at the fupa and seeing the strong box that is the heel of the gun and the rear of the slide formed in my shirts.

to compare, my minotaur is actually overly all thicker than the pardus, i can tell because of the belt notches i can use between the two holding the same gun. but the minotaur just disappears and the pardus gives me a roo pouch sized fupa to walk around with. this may very well have everything to do with me having a flat stomach so something in front sticks out, contrasted with the natural curvature in my back which creates a void area in my shirts in the small of my back.

reholstering is so easy with the pardus, i don't look, move the shirt out of the way and the gun drops in like i'm dropping it into a bucket. this was not so easy with the minotaur. the minotaur required me to practically undress myself (to make sure my shirt didn't get caught, and it ALWAYS got caught, which scared the crap out of me on the regular) and then press the gun in. i had to press the gun in because the leather is part of the retention, so the typical reholstering required me to poke the leather towards my body (essentially pointing the gun towards my body) and then push the gun into the holster.

a while back i realized that i am left handed but i tighten my belt like a right handed person. this does not work with appendix carry. i'm adapting and overcoming, but this is where a jones tactical 1.5" cobra belt would really shine. since there's no tail with the cobra belt, it's buckle and go. actually in general appendix carry is probably better facilitated by such a belt. if you have to drop your pants with a normal leather belt, getting everything back together, buttoning the pants, zipping and then having to thread the belt, tighten and put the tail through the loop all while balancing the gun in your pants is a lot of steps. meanwhile your pants are bunching in different places, while you tighten and the loops on the holster will pinch the waistline of your pants in various places and inconsistently so your will have to straighten all that out. it would suck to have to unbelt to piss and everyone has to unbelt to shit.

all in all, i'm pleased with the purchase, mainly because i think i had tempered expectations and i placed my priorities on certain characteristics of appendix carry, all of which the pardus facilitates well.

xcravx

03-19-12, 15:02

Trindex, can I ask when you placed your order, and how long it took for you to receive it?

kartoffel

03-19-12, 15:31

Thanks for the detailed review, Trinydex.

I got my M&P compact Pardus (original style) a while back. The Kydex work is alright, but I was surprised to find a large "door stop" wedge molded into the front of the holster, which adds like 3/8" of thickness. The wedge clearly serves a purpose: it forces your belt and pants to wrap waaayyyy out and around at a weird angle, thereby torquing the butt of the pistol in against your side. I must plead ignorance of this feature (caveat emptor), although CDI's photography does obscure the "door stop" behind belt loop, or shows the holster from behind where you can't see it.

So yeah, it's a comfortable appendix holster for sure. It's also as thick as a Triple Stuffed Oreo thanks to the "door stop" wedge molded into the front.

Redberens

03-19-12, 16:47

I ordered a Pardus on July 22, 2011. And I'm still waiting. I've written several emails asking about an estimated delivery date. Each time, I'm told they are very busy, but mine will be coming soon. One email told me they had a lot of orders 'misplaced' from July, but they were working on them now. In the last email, I was told it was being put together, and would be mailed out on Friday. That friday was over a month ago.

I understand that companies get busy, delays happen, etc.. I get it. But don't lie to me and say its in the mail when it obviously isn't even close. I lost all respect for the company after this last email.

trinydex

03-19-12, 16:51

Trindex, can I ask when you placed your order, and how long it took for you to receive it?

I ordered it when i made this thread. Received it in the time frame that i describe in the review.

xcravx

03-19-12, 19:55

I ordered it when i made this thread. Received it in the time frame that i describe in the review.

Thanks for that, I must have missed that you ordered it when you created this thread.

trinydex

03-19-12, 20:54

I received the holster about two days before the review.

trinydex

05-16-12, 20:00

a very important update.

the last few times i donned and doffed the holster while it was still on my belt the magazine of my g26 fell out. i found this very concerning and figured out why this happened.

i am left handed and as most left handers running glock i have an extended magazine release button to facilitate an index finger actuation of the magazine release button.

the cane and derby holster's magazine button shroud sits touching the extended magazine button. i did not take not of this when i first received the holster. i do not know if this was designed into the holster or if the holster simply was not made for extended magazine buttons.

i heated up the plastic and did a slight remolding. problem solved.

as the shroud sits well away from the botton now, im sure it is conceivable that something could get wedged between the shroud and the magazine release button and actuate the magazine release. however, i accept this level of risk as being better than the alternative.

before i reshaped the shroud...

if i pressed on the right area of the shroud, the magazine release would easily actuate and drop the magazine (because the shroud sat right on top of the button, touching). this would almost only happen with the holster on belt in pants (the holster was fully compressed) and would not readily repeat with the holster removed from pants and belt.

now after reshaping even with the holster fully compressed and pressing the shroud hard into the gun the shroud cannot reach the button.

Ironman8

05-25-12, 15:40

Trinydex,

I may have missed it somewhere in the thread, but can you list your height/weight for reference? And you're using a G26 in the PIC?

I ask because I am fit as well and have the same "void" in the small of my back due to my wider shoulders/curvature of my back where I have always carried my FS M&P. I just recently moved to a G19, and was considering looking at AIWB...however, your review of the concealability has me a little concerned that it won't work for me...for a few reasons...

1) I live in TX and generally wear thin, light colored T-shirts
2) My T-Shirts are more on the "form fitting" side than baggy...however, like I said above, I have no problem concealing @ the 4:30 postion with a FS gun.
3) TX has some pretty gay laws against printing while CCing...

I will note that I have no problem concealing a small fixed blade at the 11:30 position of my belt line that is on the OUTSIDE and running parallel to the belt...

pentosinjunkie

05-28-12, 15:28

Ordered two pistol mag carriers in mid-December 2011.

Arrived in early May of this year. I had purchased one Glock mag carrier and one CZ mag carrier; I received two Glock mag carriers and the one CZ mag carrier, so I can't complain about that; however, this was after multiple e-mails and being told in January that my order was to ship "next Friday." The build quality of the carriers is excellent.

Like others in this thread I had ordered Dale Fricke products in the meantime and received them within a week.

:rolleyes:

Just a Jarhead

07-24-12, 12:53

May 26th, 2012 I made 2 phone calls, none of which were returned, so after a few days I sent email which they responded to. I asked about current lead time for (2) .45 magazine carriers, they specifically stated 1 week. That was 2 months ago no further word from them.

I emailed them over the weekend telling them that this was a deplorable way to run a business and I want an email back as to when I can expect delivery and if not in the next 2 weeks cancel my order. Haven't heard back yet. I don't mind a reasonable lead time, just don't b.s. me and tell me 1 week!

Sent By:
"Cane and Derby Customer Support" <support@caneandderby.com> On: May 05/26/12 2:29 PM

A customer support staff member has replied to your support request, #617xxx with the following response:

Mr R,

First off, thank you for getting in touch with us, secondly my apologies for the missed phone call. We have been running full swing in the shop with all hands on deck and unfortunately, no one is manning the phones.

If you would like to speak via phone please, let us know what the best time to get in touch with you will be and we will give you a ring. This prevents us and you from having to play phone tag. We definitely want to field any questions that you may have.

1. 1-2 weeks. We ARE running batches of 1911 and Glock magazines right now so that lead time should be about one week.

Please, any more questions that you may have, wing them our way. We want to get you taken care of post haste. Also, i noticed your number, a 954. Cool! We are based out of Delray Beach so we are doubly excited to serve you.

We hope to hear from you soon and we hope to get some gear in your hands.

Have a wonderful weekend sir.

Sincerely,

The CDI Team.

El Cid

07-24-12, 19:47

The magazine issue is because their holsters are built so they cover the mag catch. I know a few people who explained why that is less than desireable to them as well as how it inhibits an admin reload. They insist on doing it their way. One of our instructors told me it can be ordered with that area cut away but I found a different kydex maker to use. That same instructor had to take heat guns the the holsters they bought to loosen them up so a draw would be possible.

They also promised a light bearing holster in March of 2011 and still don't have one to sell. I believe they are too busy to take on new projects but I wasn't willing to wait.

Just a Jarhead

08-05-12, 05:49

UPDATE: If you read my post 2 post up, 2 weeks ago I sent them an email to their "support" email address (the same email address that they sent an email to me from) complaining that they stated I'd have the items in 1 week and that it's been 2 months and no further word from them. I requested a reply as to when I could expect the items and if I did not have them in 2 weeks to cancel my order.

In 2 weeks time they didn't even have the common courtesy to reply. If it were me, or most of you, we would have reached out to the Customer in some manner. Absolute lack of respect and value for Customers in my opinion. What kind of company operates this way? They'll never get a dime from me. They could have the best item on the planet that I am looking for and I refuse to give them my money!

Buyer beware!

trinydex

08-07-12, 16:04

another update.

july 15 i noticed that part of my holster had cracked. the pardus PIC mounting arm that carries the belt loops and attaches them to the holster had developed a through and through crack on one of the folded seams. the crack was through and through for about 2/3 of the length of the arm, 1/3 more and it would sheared off and my holster would only be held in by one belt strap. the arm was superficially cracked across the entire arm, it was just the through and through portion of the crack that didn't go all the length of the arm.

after examination and temporary decommissioning of the holster i did break the entire arm just to see how it would fail. the kydex is "sticky" when it rips or tears so it would not have snapped off with a crisp snap but would have been a gradual tear over time after initial cracking developed. after examination i determined it was a fairly natural failure point in the kydex.

july 16th i took a picture of the damage and attached the image with an email to sales@caneandderby.com.

july 16th i received an email asking for the pictures to be sent to an alternate email address ian@caneandderby.com because the picture could not be viewed through emails that went through the ticketing system.

july 16th i sent another email to ian@caneandderby.com with the picture attached asking for a replacement arm and the opportunity to buy a few spares.

july 16th i received an email assuring me that the arm would be in the mail at the end of the week and that i would be notified once the replacement arms are available for purchase on the website. also was an offer that if the arm broke again, another could be made of a thicker material.

july 22 i sent an email asking if the spare mounting arms would be available for purchase. i didn't receive a reply.

july 24 i received a usps shipping notification.

july 31st i received TWO replacement holster arms (for free).

the look of the arms is different now. it's matte kydex instead of the shiny finish of the holster body. the mounting holes have eyelets in them now. i again drilled a repositioned mounting hole to mount one of the belt loops lower in order to cant the holster. everything is now back to normal.

trinydex

06-11-13, 15:25

update. broke one if the replacement yokes today. it cracked all the way through in the same manner as the first. I anticipate the last replacement yoke will also break in the same manner eventually.

I will be purchasing a replacement holster from a different manufacturer because I don't want to be chained into buying replacement yokes for the duration of the holster body's life.

smithjd

11-21-13, 17:00

Resurrected for an update:

I obtained my Pardue holster in early 2011. I have carried it, essentially daily, since. Activities include a Pat McNamara class, rural operations (hunting and work related), and hard physical labor (think cutting firewood and outdoor chores). If I have my pants on, I am wearing it.

At range the other night the belt loops gave up the ghost. I wear it on an Ares double layer ranger belt, so there is not much flex. I am surprised it took this long, as I have not yet found a Kydex holster or mag carrier that has not cracked at some point. How to avoid cracked Kydex? I don't know, go back to leather I guess. Or use flexible Hypalon type loops, which I do not think would work with OWB. The body of the holster works as good as new.

Just ordered replacement belt loops. Will update if there is any problem...hope not as they say "in stock".

Also, FYI... Being anal about equipment failure, I removed and blue loctited all screws when I received the holster. Having a screw fall out when you don't want it is unacceptable. The downside is I cannot get them out now. The female bushing just spins. I may have to drill them out, so another set of hardware ordered with the replacement loops.