View Full Version : ALG Defense's new ALG Combat Trigger (ACT)...
Hi guys, I wanted to share a brand new trigger option that I'm trying out. It's from ALG Defense which is a new company started by Amy Geissele, and they will be distributing defense products to local LEO and the U.S. Gov't. With the help of Bill Geissele, they have developed two new triggers one of which is featured in this thread...the ALG Combat Trigger (ACT). Both of these new triggers are enhanced mil-spec triggers. ALG Defense purchases semi finished castings from the same Tier 1 supplier that makes Colt’s triggers, and then they apply the now famous Geissele magic on the sears and include the much higher quality Geissele pins and springs.
The ACT trigger features:
Advantages for the shooter include....
• The ALG Defense ACT trigger pull is smoother and sharper than a stock trigger. This is accomplished by
polishing the sear surfaces smooth and HardLubing the trigger components.
• Sear geometry has not been changed from the standard profile so the high reliability that the stock trigger is known for is unchanged.
• Trigger and hammer are made from true 8620 alloy steel military specification castings, correctly carburized, quenched and tempered for high surface hardness.
• Disconnector is 1070 High Carbon steel properly Austempered into the spring range of hardness.
• Springs are corrosion resistant and meet military specifications.
• A full force hammer spring is used for positive ignition of all type of ammunition.
• Trigger and hammer pins are improved over stock mild steel by using 4140 Chrome-Moly steel that has been quenched and tempered. Pins are centerless ground to a fine finish and a diameter 0.001” larger than stock to reduce play in the trigger assembly while retaining a slip fit into the weapon lower receiver. Both pins are Nickel-Teflon coated.
• Pull weight is above the U.S. Military minimum pull weight of 5.5lbs but does not reach near the upper limit of 9.5lbs. Generally the pull is around 6lbs.
Advantages for the Armorer include....
• The ALG Defense ACT trigger is an enhanced standard trigger so maintenance and installation procedures
are unchanged.
• Trigger assembly parts may be interchanged between triggers, there are no matched sets.
• As a trigger meeting the essential U.S. Military trigger specifications for the M4 Carbine, the ALG Defense
ACT can be substituted for lower performing stock triggers while still staying in compliance with Unit or Departmental requirements.
Notes about Hardlubing....
HardLubing is ALG's term for electroless Nickel plating with an integral modifier to the base nickel plate. Either Boron or Teflon is used to enhance surface hardness, wear resistance and corrosion resistance and also create favorable tribological properties of the trigger components.
Testing has shown that differential coating of the trigger parts contributes to the sharpness of the ACT's single stage pull. The trigger component is plated with Nickel-Boron which has a high surface hardness combined with excellent wear resistance. The color is a pleasing matte light grey that may be painted on non-functional
surfaces if the shooter so desires (such as the trigger bow that is visible outside the lower receiver). The hammer, disconnector and trigger/hammer pins are plated with Nickel-Teflon which combines a low coefficient of friction with good wear resistance. The Teflon impregnation colors the metal a mottled, greyish/green. Parts coated with Nickel-Teflon cannot be painted. Both coatings are highly corrosion resistant eliminating the oil seal of traditional phosphated firearm components.
The retail price for these will be $65
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC03336-1.jpg
I just installed it this afternoon, so my personal thoughts are brief. I'm already certainly impressed with this trigger considering what it is by nature, and the price point it's set at.
Super simple installation with great directions.
It has easily the nicest pull I've ever felt on a mil spec g.i. type single stage trigger. The pull has an ever so small amount of creep, and then breaks extremely clean. Nice, and loud audible reset as well.
Some really nice touches on this trigger are for sure the hardlubing on the parts, the typical Geissele trigger pins, and lastly but not least the included slave pin that makes the installation process so much easier.
This trigger will be a huge seller!
Inkslinger
01-19-12, 18:59
Sorry Trident, you were beat to the punch.
He's the first one to do more than just announce it.
Did i miss when these are being released?
Inkslinger
01-19-12, 19:12
On the upside, your title is a little more cut and dry. The other one is about "more choices..." or something. Sounds good though. For the price I may have to try one.
Jsop, I will see about finding out when these will be available, and which vendors will be carrying them.
It's also important to clarify what this trigger is most appropriate for. The following is a quote from Bill Geissele that best summarizes that ...."The ACT is not a match trigger. It is a "less bad" mil spec trigger....It's for guys who don't want to spend the scratch on uber triggers. Or for police who are not allowed to put other triggers in."
Here is a quick video showing the ACT trigger's pull/reset up close....
ALG Defense ACT trigger pull... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3rmCCyUp_k&feature=youtube_gdata)
I'm thinking this will be good option for those who want a decent trigger but can't swing the price tag on a one of the $100+ options. Or folks who want a decent trigger in some of their backup ARs.
ForTehNguyen
01-19-12, 21:31
good for people in departments that dont allow match triggers. I am interested in this too since its just a tuned milspec trigger. I wasnt really interested in the 2 stage stuff they had. I wanted plain jane single stage
Thanks Trident keep us posted.
I'm thinking this will be good option for those who want a decent trigger but can't swing the price tag on a one of the $100+ options. Or folks who want a decent trigger in some of their backup ARs.
Ill probably get one just becasue I don't want a match trigger, Im very used to standard triggers. I wouldn't mind having a nice clean one though.
Exactly, so many folks own numerous ARs these days that it's not feasibly to buy a SD-C/E, or SSA/E for every one of them.
I honestly never envisioned trying or shooting with another mil spec single stage trigger again after I removed a couple of absolutely horrendous colt triggers that came in my 6520s.
You can be assured that in terms of staying within the parameters of the mil-spec single stage trigger design, the ACT has incorporated everything possible to refine it and make the pull as clean and smooth as possible. Most importantly for myself, this ACT trigger is actually predictable....not the case in the vast majority of mil spec single triggers I've tried that come stock in BCMs, Colts, DDs, LMTs, Noveskes, etc.
m1a_scoutguy
01-19-12, 23:07
On the upside, your title is a little more cut and dry. The other one is about "more choices..." or something. Sounds good though. For the price I may have to try one.
Yea,,thats my fault,,;) It was late and I came across the link on another Forum,(Not TOS) and tossed it up,,I should of mentioned Geissele in the title !! I guess I was so excited and amazed that I beat Trident to the punch on these I was beside myself,,LOL !!! Bottom line though I'm sure Trident knew about them and was waiting to gather ALL the info and Spec's instead of just throwing it out there like me !!!!;);) Anyways,,THANKS for the Full scoop on these buddy,,keep us posted on these as I'm sure you will !!!! :)
This looks very promissing!!
I know we'll be carrying them and bundling them with our selectors :D
TRIDENT82, how does this feel as compared to a stock KAC SR-15
trigger?
TIA.
TRIDENT82, how does this feel as compared to a stock KAC SR-15
trigger?
TIA.
Good question, i'd also like to know the answer.
UDT, OldGreg....I'll try to compare the two the best I can, however its important for me to note that I'm a very strong advocate for 2 stage trigger designs vs. single stage trigger designs, and these triggers are really totally different designs.
The KAC 2stage trigger's second stage wall (closest thing comparable to a single stage pull like the ACT), and then the actual break of the trigger is very clean, and relatively crisp...however not nearly on the level of the SD-E or SSA-E triggers, it's almost the same as the SSA and S2S trigger's break. It's first stage is about 3lbs, and then the second stage is about 1.5lbs. In terms of comparing how crisp, smooth, and clean the trigger pulls are between the ACT and KAC triggers...no questions asked, the KAC trigger feels significantly better. That said, it better considering it's a $300+ trigger, and has the benefit of abandoning the mil spec single stage trigger design which is so limiting in terms of refinement.
Now, if were comparing long term durability/reliability....no questions asked, the ACT trigger will far exceed the life of the KAC 2stage trigger that has been known to go tits up in rifles used in combat. The ACT trigger also has a non adjust design, whereas the KAC does have an adjust design.
A month or two ago, both the ACT and QMS triggers underwent 50,000 dry fires. Both units still felt good after testing was concluded. Both had a hammer spring break at about 30K.
I'd bet heavily that the KAC 2stage match trigger would fail well short of those totals above.
Jsop....I was told these triggers will be available in about 3 weeks from ADCO:)
SomeOtherGuy
01-20-12, 12:19
As I posted on the other thread I think this is a great idea and I'm surprised it took this long for someone to really do it right. But I couldn't be happier than with Geissele (or technically ALG) doing it. I'm sure I'll be getting one of these to try out.
Nice, and loud audible reset as well.
That's because the original GI style hammer was intended for pounding railroad spikes into solid rock. If ALG ever feels like a further evolution of this design I would chop off the unneeded hammer tail (not needed for semiauto, at least) and change springs as needed to get a faster lock time and less harsh operation.
Looks real good, I will be looking into one of these.
Wow, if you'll note above...I mentioned that the ACT unlike the vast majority of mil spec single stage triggers Ive ever shot, is actually predictable. After reliability, I value predictability secondly. Not only did I hate having to fight the hell out of 9.5lb-10.5lb triggers in my colt 6520s, but even more importantly, there was no way to tell when exactly the shot would break. This by extension made me focus tons of attention on thinking about pulling the trigger and when it would be actually breaking vs. keeping my attention on the target through the sights which is where all my attention should be. A great trigger is one in which you don't even know it's there.
So anyway, I was excited to check the pull weights on this trigger to get some actual data to support the statement I made above that was based purely on the feel of the trigger. I was quite surprised, and impressed with the 10 pull weight numbers. I also wanted to show the effects that properly greasing your contact surfaces will have upon the pull weight. I started of by removing all the grease on the surfaces that I had installed it with, and performed five pulls like that. Then I properly greased the surfaces, and performed another 10 pulls.
First five pull weights w/o trigger grease:
1.) 6.29
2.) 6.61
3.) 6.36
4.) 6.24
5.) 6.33
________
Avg. pull weight: 6.366lbs Standard Deviation: .14363
Ten pull weights w/ trigger grease:
1.) 5.81
2.) 5.85
3.) 5.93
4.) 5.98
5.) 5.76
6.) 5.92
7.) 6.04
8.) 5.74
9.) 5.91
10.) 6.08
__________
Avg. pull weight: 5.902lb. Standard Deviation: 0.11331
I will have to refer back to my notes to be positive on the pull weight averages I recorded on 3 different S2S triggers, but I'm pretty sure that this ACT actually had a lower standard deviation than any of the S2S. Again, that pull weight avg. amount and the low standard deviation in the string is awesome to see.
I'm not sure if a vial of grease will come with these triggers since I didn't receive any, so that is one thing to be aware of.....do yourself a favor and pick up a small amt. of Aeroshell 6 or Mobil 28.
TRIDENT82;1203351]UDT, OldGreg....I'll try to compare the two the best I can, however its important for me to note that I'm a very strong advocate for 2 stage trigger designs vs. single stage trigger designs, and these triggers are really totally different designs.
TRIDENT82, thanks for the reply and the info.
UDT
Great data! Thanks Trident.
Thanks gents:)
I'll have to snap some up close much better pics of the ACT trigger broken down so that you guys can get a better idea of how nicely they're finished and what the Hardlubing looks like on them. The individual components are slick as owl sh*t with this Hardlube...neat stuff for sure.
For the price I may have to try one.
+1
Bill Geissele best summarizes..."It is a 'less bad' mil spec trigger..."
This IS really appealing.
I was saving to spend $150 on a Geissele, and in the meantime I spent $35 or so to send my trigger to Bill Springfield. Once Springfield worked his magic, I crossed a Geissele trigger off my wish list.
I am beyond satisfied with Springfield's work, but for a bit more, I think I would simply buy the ALG trigger...
ForTehNguyen
01-20-12, 18:33
very interested in this, I like the $45 for the non nickel boron version. I wasnt up to spending $150+ on a Timney or Geissele 2 stage. I like the mil spec trigger but a tuned one would be even better.
The ALG trigger is what the standard AR trigger should have been in the first place!
Thanks for the info.
Looks very promising.
ForTehNguyen
01-20-12, 22:11
Trident thanks for the measurements on the ALG trigger. Can you do a the same test with a standard trigger group and/or the QMS version for a comparison.
I am using a JP enterprise trigger and the pins with little hex heads that fit too tight and the little set screws make me feel it is iffy. The break is great but I would like to go back to standard pins and trigger. At $65 this looks like a great deal. I'd like to try it. I have the FailZero BCG that comes with a coated hammer, I tried it with the standard trigger and it had some creep and felt heavy.
Trident thanks for the measurements on the ALG trigger. Can you do a the same test with a standard trigger group and/or the QMS version for a comparison.
Unfortunately I've given away every standard mil spec single stage trigger I've ever owned in the past. Even if I did have one or two of them left, it really wouldn't serve a comparison very well given that almost ever standard trigger Ive ever tried or owned felt different than the next. So I would really need a large sample size of them in order to get an average pull weight that would even be useful to compare with. For example I could potentially be using one of the really rare good standard triggers, or I could be using one of the most horrendous standard triggers for the comparison. That is another reason why these ACT triggers should be really appealing to some given that even if they aren't the greatest and smoothest feeling triggers known to man, you will know exactly what your getting each time with them. One could even use this advantage to create trigger pull/weight commonality across all the ARs they own. Conversely, one could buy three consecutively serialized Colt 6920s, and will very likely end up with three different feeling trigger/pull weights.
I didn't receive a QMS trigger, so I can't compare it to the ACT.
Sorry I couldn't be any help on those comparisons, I do have quite a few averages on a number of other triggers like the S2Ss, SSAs, SD-E, and most recently the SD-3G but I'm not sure it will help you out any.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-21-12, 09:06
This is hitting the market at a really good time for me. I have an old lower with a DPMS parts kit inside that I was planning to gut and give to my brother. I think I'll buy a few of these, and a simple G&R LPK, rebuild the lower, and then give it to him.
This is hitting the market at a really good time for me. I have an old lower with a DPMS parts kit inside that I was planning to gut and give to my brother. I think I'll buy a few of these, and a simple G&R LPK, rebuild the lower, and then give it to him.
We will be changing the FCG that comes in our LPK's with these two trigger options.
C4
ForTehNguyen
01-21-12, 14:22
Sorry I couldn't be any help on those comparisons, I do have quite a few averages on a number of other triggers like the S2Ss, SSAs, SD-E, and most recently the SD-3G but I'm not sure it will help you out any.
No big deal Trident, thanks for the info. I've noticed this as well with all of my standard mil spec triggers, some are creepier and heavier than others. I was never fond of putting a $170+ Timney or Geissele trigger in my combat ARs and having a non standard part. This QMS trigger really interests me to keep the triggers between my ARs consistent at a great price point.
BrigandTwoFour
01-22-12, 00:09
Grant, I've been holding off on ordering the LPK for a new rifle because your kits show out of stock. I was planning on ordering a SD-E and putting it in my current gun, and moving that gun's SSA to the new one.
If you bundle these in with your kits, that would be awesome. Any ballpark on when they will be available?
You state that its safe to paint. Would it be a bad idea to have the trigger bow powder coated, as it wouldnt wear off like paint?
I don't see why it would be a problem to powder coat vs. paint it.
This ACT trigger goes great with SS barrels:p You can tell instantly from looking at this trigger that it's not of the standard trigger variety.
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC03357-1.jpg
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC03348-1.jpg
This ACT trigger goes great with SS barrels:p You can tell instantly from looking at this trigger that it's not of the standard trigger variety.
It's forged with "S" like a bunch of pedestrian GI triggers.
I picked one up at SHOT and will be interested to see how it feels.
aw dang it... wanting to try out the nickel boron (hardlube) concept on a single stage trigger, I went with the single-stage Spikes Battle Trigger before these came out and it is very nice.
if these are anything like the Spikes trigger - and I'm sure coming from Giessele they will be at least as good if not better - this will be all I will be putting on my defensive carbines from now on.
Terlingueno
01-25-12, 10:05
I want one of these. How do I get them? Does ALG sell direct?
I want one of these. How do I get them? Does ALG sell direct?
We will be stocking them.
C4
Individual sale or just with LPK's/complete lowers?
And the million dollar question..any idea of when?
We will be stocking them.
C4
bleaman225
01-26-12, 22:44
What about us gents that have .170 pin receivers? My old 6933 needs some of this lovin'!
That's an excellent question, and I forgot to ask about that as I was wondering the exact same thing....I'll certainly get an answer to that.
bleaman225
01-27-12, 10:38
Thanks
It's about time...:)
Thanks for the review.
These will not be offered in a large pin configuration unfortunately. Just not enough demand out there for large pin triggers.
bleaman225
01-27-12, 17:07
These will not be offered in a large pin configuration unfortunately. Just not enough demand out there for large pin triggers.
über bummer
BufordTJustice
02-02-12, 17:44
Pre-ordered an ACT from RA for my wife's AR build. :cool:
Pre-ordered an ACT from RA for my wife's AR build. :cool:
I see they have two triggers listed, the ACT and the QMS. Anybody know what the difference is besides $20?
I can't wait for Grant to have this as an option in his LPK.
http://algdefense.com/
I see they have two triggers listed, the ACT and the QMS. Anybody know what the difference is besides $20?
I can't wait for Grant to have this as an option in his LPK.
Pre-ordered an ACT from RA for my wife's AR build. :cool:
Thanks for the heads-up.
Looking forward to giving this a whirl!
Also.. props to TRIDENT82! Thanks man.
BufordTJustice
02-03-12, 17:16
Thanks for the heads-up.
Looking forward to giving this a whirl!
Also.. props to TRIDENT82! Thanks man.
Yes, Definitely props to TRIDENT. First he walks me into the Geissele SD-C, then this. ;)
Hals1, Rainier Arms includes full product descriptions at their website...and lots of pretty pictures.
The ACT is basically a QMS trigger that has had some 'hardlube coatings' on the trigger components (nickel boron, nickel teflon).
The QMS is just a high quality mil spec trigger that has had all its engagement surfaces properly tuned and polished to maximize smoothness. The QMS is phosphated to mil spec.
ACT
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=3022
QMS
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=3023
Yes, Definitely props to TRIDENT. First he walks me into the Geissele SD-C, then this. ;)
I was taking a long look at the SD-C, but i'm going to give the ALG:ACT a try first. Now i know it wont be in the same league as the SD-C, but i may be content w/ the ACT. It's worth a shot.
OldGreg, BufordTJustice...my pleasure gents:)
The SD-C and SD-E are easily my all time favorite triggers, however the fact is that their performance is way above what many folks really require or need.
The problem previously to the inception of the Geissele S2S 2stage trigger, and especially the new ALG ACT trigger was that there wasn't any real "middle ground" between an absolutely terrible stock mil spec type single stage trigger, and then a true hard use/high quality alternative...i.e. a SD-C/E or SSA/E. So folks would ultimately have to pay for a Ferrari's performance, when they only needed a BMW's performance to replace their current Pinto's performance if that makes sense.
The ALG ACT trigger and the former Geissele S2S trigger does just that.....it bridges the gap between the very worst, and the very best.
BufordTJustice
02-04-12, 01:05
OldGreg, BufordTJustice...my pleasure gents:)
The SD-C and SD-E are easily my all time favorite triggers, however the fact is that their performance is way above what many folks really require or need.
The problem previously to the inception of the Geissele S2S 2stage trigger, and especially the new ALG ACT trigger was that there wasn't any real "middle ground" between an absolutely terrible stock mil spec type single stage trigger, and then a true hard use/high quality alternative...i.e. a SD-C/E or SSA/E. So folks would ultimately have to pay for a Ferrari's performance, when they only needed a BMW's performance to replace their current Pinto's performance if that makes sense.
The ALG ACT trigger and the former Geissele S2S trigger does just that.....it bridges the gap between the very worst, and the very best.
Agreed. I've already steered several buddies into the ACT pre-order. They shot my SD-C and loved it, but they didn't love the price (and neither did their wives).
The ACT was the sweet spot and it took little convincing from me after their contact with my SD-C and the Geissele pedigree that these new triggers have.
Oh, and in all honesty thank you, Trident. The SD-C continues to amaze and please me. I encounter lots of different trigger from other guys and gals in my agency...I've still not shot a finer combat trigger than the SD-C. :) It's just as crisp and light as the day I first got it...and I'm nearing 2K rounds on it. There is almost no observable wear on it, either.
Excellent info as always Trident....no doubt I will be using these in builds I do for other people. These seem to be priced perfectly too IMO....the best 'stock' triggers I have used are the coated LWRC ones, but no doubt these will be very similar at a substantially lower cost. Great news.
Yes, Definitely props to TRIDENT. First he walks me into the Geissele SD-C, then this. ;)
Hals1, Rainier Arms includes full product descriptions at their website...and lots of pretty pictures.
The ACT is basically a QMS trigger that has had some 'hardlube coatings' on the trigger components (nickel boron, nickel teflon).
The QMS is just a high quality mil spec trigger that has had all its engagement surfaces properly tuned and polished to maximize smoothness. The QMS is phosphated to mil spec.
ACT
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=3022
QMS
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=3023
Reading the add copy, it sounds like like the ACT is stoned/honed a bit more than the QMS. QMS reads someting like, "....down to the valleys" where the ACT has no such description. That leads me me to believe it's stoned/honed below the valleys so all contact surfaces are truly smooth and parallel, but that's just conjecture on my part.
Anyone know when a trigger is stoned/honed, does that come before or after the carburizing/hardening step? Everyone always says to avoid stoning a trigger because you'll penetrate the case hardening. I don't have much doubt that Geiselle knows what they're doing, I'm just curious which operation is performed first, and if stoning/honing is done secondly, how deep is the case vs how deep does the stoning penetrate into the case?
BufordTJustice
02-04-12, 20:13
Reading the add copy, it sounds like like the ACT is stoned/honed a bit more than the QMS. QMS reads someting like, "....down to the valleys" where the ACT has no such description. That leads me me to believe it's stoned/honed below the valleys so all contact surfaces are truly smooth and parallel, but that's just conjecture on my part.
Anyone know when a trigger is stoned/honed, does that come before or after the carburizing/hardening step? Everyone always says to avoid stoning a trigger because you'll penetrate the case hardening. I don't have much doubt that Geiselle knows what they're doing, I'm just curious which operation is performed first, and if stoning/honing is done secondly, how deep is the case vs how deep does the stoning penetrate into the case?
You can re-case-harden the metal after stoning/polishing, but it is a time and work intensive process...and you gotta know what you're doing.
I know Bill Springfield does not do this.
All current GA triggers are heat treated through the entirety of the metal and I don't see Bill G deviating from some type of known-good heat treating process.
Jmart....good question, I just sent an email requesting some clarity on that topic to ALG.
I think Buford already did a solid job answering it more broadly.
Now time for an apology on my end....It turns out that apparently Rainier Arms is going to sell the very first batch instead of ADCO that I had posted earlier, so I apologize guys about the misinformation in that regard.
You can re-case-harden the metal after stoning/polishing, but it is a time and work intensive process...and you gotta know what you're doing.
I know Bill Springfield does not do this.
All current GA triggers are heat treated through the entirety of the metal and I don't see Bill G deviating from some type of known-good heat treating process.
Add copy suggest surface hardening, not through-hardening.
Now, having said that, I have no idea how deep the case extends, and it may extend far deeper than the stoning/honing extends, so there may be plenty of margin.
BufordTJustice
02-05-12, 00:59
Add copy suggest surface hardening, not through-hardening.
Now, having said that, I have no idea how deep the case extends, and it may extend far deeper than the stoning/honing extends, so there may be plenty of margin.
That's exactly why I said all current Geissele triggers are through hardened. The ALG ACT/QMS will be the first surface hardened GA triggers that I'm aware of.
Robb Jensen
02-05-12, 09:19
At the Geissele booth at SHOT, there was a ACT trigger which had in excess of 50K dry fires. I'm fairly certain these will hold up just fine.
I picked up two of these triggers myself.
SomeOtherGuy
02-05-12, 10:06
Surface hardening is just fine if you do it after shaping the sear surfaces to their final shape and dimensions. I expect that's how these are made.
Nice write up Trident.........Very well done.
I will be checking these out for sure.
BufordTJustice
02-05-12, 15:36
At the Geissele booth at SHOT, there was a ACT trigger which had in excess of 50K dry fires. I'm fairly certain these will hold up just fine.
I picked up two of these triggers myself.
Thanks Robb, that's impressive.
As I've said before, Bill G won't sign-off on a shit product. It's gonna be 100% right or he won't sell it.
Some additional information from ALG....
"We hone and polish after carburizing. We are only taking off the tops of the hills and are not really removing material from the case. The hardlubing helps with the consistency of the trigger pull and how the pull remains the same over many rounds and with inconsistent lubrication. If someone paid attention to lubrication to the QMS I think it would feel almost like the ACT over time."
Few more pics.....
Please note how the springs go on the trigger components for proper installation as I believe these triggers will ship without them already installed.
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC03522-1.jpg
For those new to installing triggers, just remember the hammer spring legs go on top of the trigger pin....
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC03467-1.jpg
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC03524-1.jpg
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC03514-1.jpg
Looks great..
Anxiously awaiting the 1st batch. :D
How much creep?
Target triggers with adjustable set screws can nearly eliminate it. And AR aftermarket kits, or lowers like the AGP, come with one.
Looking forward to hearing someone install this with the addition of an adjustable trigger screw.
tirod....good question, this trigger does have an ever so small amt. of creep as I call it or as some might call it "take up" as referred to in the video below.
Check out this awesome GearScout review video....at roughly 1:12, please note the creep I'm referring to in both my assessment and the video I made of the ACT trigger's pull, or the "hair's width of take up" as it's called in the GearScout video.
This creep or take up isn't a bad thing per say in this particular type of trigger as it's intended for hard use duty, PD/HD, combat, etc. This amt. of creep or take up is predictable every single trigger pull.
GearScout video review of the ACT trigger (http://bcove.me/ov90ens7)
I can't wait to try one out, I don't mind the trigger in my BCM but this will be a good upgrade.
I can't wait to try one out, I don't mind the trigger in my BCM but this will be a good upgrade.
Out of three triggers, one Shrubmaster and two BCMs, I hate to say it, but the Shrubmaster is best:(. Also have a couple of PSA but too soon to tell. Have a ALG ACT on preorder from Ranier. They say late Feb/early Mar. Can't wait. I can maybe see 4-5 in my future if it pans out.
Does anybody sell the S2S anymore?
SomeOtherGuy
02-16-12, 13:10
Does anybody sell the S2S anymore?
The S2S was discontinued but replaced with the G2S model which is identical (or nearly so) but only for OEM use. However, you can get a G2S with a G&R LPK, or at least it's listed as an option. Not aware of anyone else selling it; for that matter, I never saw anyone besides ADCO actually selling the S2S.
Looks great..
Anxiously awaiting the 1st batch. :D
I got a shipping notice a couple of hours ago! Sweeeet.
What sucks though.. is that i won't be able to test drive it before my Carbine class next weekend. Guess it'll be a trial by fire!
Does anybody sell the S2S anymore?
It has been renamed to G2S and we sell them.
C4
Installed a ACT. I honestly could not find any creep. As expected best 65 bucks spent on any trigger under 100 bucks.
I also have a spikes battle trigger which has some creep and stacking prior to the break.
The trigger groups appear to be identical with MIM voids and markings but hands down the ALG trigger outshines the spikes. I wouldn't waste money on any other trigger group.
I dropped mine in last night.. so far i like the reset alot. I look forward to some shooting this weekend.
SomeOtherGuy
02-28-12, 18:22
I dropped mine in last night.. so far i like the reset alot.
Is the reset any different from a typical GI trigger? I had been assuming it would be identical given the parts.
My reset feels the same (compared to a stock GI trigger), the magic is in the trigger pull and break.
SW-Shooter
02-28-12, 19:34
I ordered an ACT last night, I hope I make the first pre-order batch because I'm an impatient SOB. Not to worry, it's going to be installed in a sub standard Spikes Tactical lower so let the flaming begin.
Is the reset any different from a typical GI trigger? I had been assuming it would be identical given the parts.
I'm not really all that qualified to answer that question... i still drive in the Newb lane. I will say that I had been using the G&R LPK, and Grant has all the expertise in regards to his kit. I can only say that to me the ALG seems to have a shorter reset.
got one on the way. If it works out, may order another. What I really want is CONSISTENT action. My DD has a sweet, fairly light crisp letoff, but sometimes goes to a single stage, sometimes to a double stage.
SW-Shooter
02-29-12, 14:36
Got the email just now, can't wait to install and try it out. If it's everything it seems to be I'll be ordering 4 more.
where are these available from?
NoveskeFan
02-29-12, 16:05
where are these available from?
You can order them from ALG. http://www.algdefense.com/ the order link is to the lower right.
Rainier Arms has a pre-order going. (http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=3022)
Something else to look into...
Hi guys, I wanted to share a brand new trigger option that I'm trying out. It's from ALG Defense which is a new company started by Amy Geissele, and they will be distributing defense products to local LEO and the U.S. Gov't. With the help of Bill Geissele, they have developed two new triggers one of which is featured in this thread...the ALG Combat Trigger (ACT). Both of these new triggers are enhanced mil-spec triggers. ALG Defense purchases semi finished castings from the same Tier 1 supplier that makes Colt’s triggers, and then they apply the now famous Geissele magic on the sears and include the much higher quality Geissele pins and springs.
The ACT trigger features:
Advantages for the shooter include....
• The ALG Defense ACT trigger pull is smoother and sharper than a stock trigger. This is accomplished by
polishing the sear surfaces smooth and HardLubing the trigger components.
• Sear geometry has not been changed from the standard profile so the high reliability that the stock trigger is known for is unchanged.
• Trigger and hammer are made from true 8620 alloy steel military specification castings, correctly carburized, quenched and tempered for high surface hardness.
• Disconnector is 1070 High Carbon steel properly Austempered into the spring range of hardness.
• Springs are corrosion resistant and meet military specifications.
• A full force hammer spring is used for positive ignition of all type of ammunition.
• Trigger and hammer pins are improved over stock mild steel by using 4140 Chrome-Moly steel that has been quenched and tempered. Pins are centerless ground to a fine finish and a diameter 0.001” larger than stock to reduce play in the trigger assembly while retaining a slip fit into the weapon lower receiver. Both pins are Nickel-Teflon coated.
• Pull weight is above the U.S. Military minimum pull weight of 5.5lbs but does not reach near the upper limit of 9.5lbs. Generally the pull is around 6lbs.
Advantages for the Armorer include....
• The ALG Defense ACT trigger is an enhanced standard trigger so maintenance and installation procedures
are unchanged.
• Trigger assembly parts may be interchanged between triggers, there are no matched sets.
• As a trigger meeting the essential U.S. Military trigger specifications for the M4 Carbine, the ALG Defense
ACT can be substituted for lower performing stock triggers while still staying in compliance with Unit or Departmental requirements.
Notes about Hardlubing....
HardLubing is ALG's term for electroless Nickel plating with an integral modifier to the base nickel plate. Either Boron or Teflon is used to enhance surface hardness, wear resistance and corrosion resistance and also create favorable tribological properties of the trigger components.
Testing has shown that differential coating of the trigger parts contributes to the sharpness of the ACT's single stage pull. The trigger component is plated with Nickel-Boron which has a high surface hardness combined with excellent wear resistance. The color is a pleasing matte light grey that may be painted on non-functional
surfaces if the shooter so desires (such as the trigger bow that is visible outside the lower receiver). The hammer, disconnector and trigger/hammer pins are plated with Nickel-Teflon which combines a low coefficient of friction with good wear resistance. The Teflon impregnation colors the metal a mottled, greyish/green. Parts coated with Nickel-Teflon cannot be painted. Both coatings are highly corrosion resistant eliminating the oil seal of traditional phosphated firearm components.
The retail price for these will be $65
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC03336-1.jpg
I just installed it this afternoon, so my personal thoughts are brief. I'm already certainly impressed with this trigger considering what it is by nature, and the price point it's set at.
Super simple installation with great directions.
It has easily the nicest pull I've ever felt on a mil spec g.i. type single stage trigger. The pull has an ever so small amount of creep, and then breaks extremely clean. Nice, and loud audible reset as well.
Some really nice touches on this trigger are for sure the hardlubing on the parts, the typical Geissele trigger pins, and lastly but not least the included slave pin that makes the installation process so much easier.
This trigger will be a huge seller!
Danke!!!
ForTehNguyen
03-01-12, 07:28
Rainer shipped two triggers for a friend and me. I'll let yall know when I get it installed
Got my ACT trigger today and installed it in my BCM 14.5 Middy. Haven't shot it yet but will report back when I do. One thing I noticed is the hole in the hammer is smaller / tighter on the pin. Very little slop while on the pin. I checked this by putting both pins (BCM and ACT) in both hammers, as I know the ACT pin is .001" larger to begin with. Dry firing, it is NICE. Looks like I'm gonna have to order at least 1 more for the BCM 16" Middy :D
Here's a couple pics of the ACT and the BCM TG's.
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee238/number9st/Guns/ACT_TG.jpg http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee238/number9st/Guns/BCM_TG.jpg
...
^^ Awesome pics ^^ :) Thanks for the feedback for those of you whom have already weighed in on these, and I look forward to hearing more.
I have a few things to add....
RE: Creep associated w/ the ACT trigger
As Ive already noted in my use with this trigger, and depicted in the video I linked earlier in this thread, the ACT has a slight amt. of creep. Personally I believe this isn't all that of a bad thing on this particular type of trigger...i.e. hard use, duty, combat, PD, etc.
This is a quote from Bill G in regards to the creep on the ACT trigger....
"The trigger will have creep if you try to pull the trigger slowly. It has the same .062" sear engagement as the mil spec trigger. If the target is acquired and the trigger directly pulled back creep will not be noticeable.
For reference a Hi Speed has .003-.005" sear engagement at the break. A whole different ballgame."
RE: Some more feedback from the unit I've been running
I was finally able to use this trigger in a LR capacity which I feel is a excellent test for any AR trigger, and also let a pal whom had never fired a single AR-15 prior to this occasion attempt to ring steel with it @ 600yds.
I went first, and had no problems whatsoever ringing 12" x 20" steel with this trigger @ 600yds. I found the right hold for my pal, and turned over the trigger to him to see if he could ring some steel with the SPR and this particular trigger. I kid you not, my pal ringed the steel on the very first trigger pull, and then continued to nail it thereafter for another 8-9rds.
It's worth noting that we both came off of using true precision triggers in different .308 rifles that we were firing at 800yds, and had no problems adjusting to the significantly heavier, and less refined ACT trigger. In my case I was previously shooting my beloved SD-E trigger which is the Cadillac of AR triggers imho.
In short, there are certainly better precision type AR triggers available like the SD-E/C, SSA/E, and DMR....however, the ACT trigger certainly will allow you to have a smooth enough/light enough trigger in order to pull off critical hits at distances that I'm not sure a gritty, heavy, or unpredictable stock G.I. type trigger would be able to make.
BufordTJustice
03-03-12, 03:23
Just installed an ACT in a buddy's CDD stripped lower (from Grant).
He was very impressed and, despite this being his first aftermarket trigger, he was extremely happy with the value.
I have another friend who spends a good deal of time with bolt rifles who just received his. I'm gonna help him install that this coming week. I'd imagine his response will be similar.
I can't see the price on the ACT staying the same for very long. Between the oversized, hardened, and centerless-ground pins, the advanced coatings, the XP hammer spring, and the "Geissele Automatics touch"....these trigger are a solid buy.
My wife LOVES hers. She commented on how consistent it was from pull to pull. In my mind, that is its greatest strength over a std parts kit trigger.
blasternank
03-03-12, 19:48
Wow, if you'll note above...I mentioned that the ACT unlike the vast majority of mil spec single stage triggers Ive ever shot, is actually predictable. After reliability, I value predictability secondly. Not only did I hate having to fight the hell out of 9.5lb-10.5lb triggers in my colt 6520s, but even more importantly, there was no way to tell when exactly the shot would break. This by extension made me focus tons of attention on thinking about pulling the trigger and when it would be actually breaking vs. keeping my attention on the target through the sights which is where all my attention should be. A great trigger is one in which you don't even know it's there.
So anyway, I was excited to check the pull weights on this trigger to get some actual data to support the statement I made above that was based purely on the feel of the trigger. I was quite surprised, and impressed with the 10 pull weight numbers. I also wanted to show the effects that properly greasing your contact surfaces will have upon the pull weight. I started of by removing all the grease on the surfaces that I had installed it with, and performed five pulls like that. Then I properly greased the surfaces, and performed another 10 pulls.
First five pull weights w/o trigger grease:
1.) 6.29
2.) 6.61
3.) 6.36
4.) 6.24
5.) 6.33
________
Avg. pull weight: 6.366lbs Standard Deviation: .14363
Ten pull weights w/ trigger grease:
1.) 5.81
2.) 5.85
3.) 5.93
4.) 5.98
5.) 5.76
6.) 5.92
7.) 6.04
8.) 5.74
9.) 5.91
10.) 6.08
__________
Avg. pull weight: 5.902lb. Standard Deviation: 0.11331
I will have to refer back to my notes to be positive on the pull weight averages I recorded on 3 different S2S triggers, but I'm pretty sure that this ACT actually had a lower standard deviation than any of the S2S. Again, that pull weight avg. amount and the low standard deviation in the string is awesome to see.
I'm not sure if a vial of grease will come with these triggers since I didn't receive any, so that is one thing to be aware of.....do yourself a favor and pick up a small amt. of Aeroshell 6 or Mobil 28.
So a couple of things, I usually only lubricate the springs a bit so where are you putting the grease to properly grease it? Also, where can you find the Aeroshell 6 or Mobil 28?
Thanks.
Funkenstein
03-07-12, 18:55
So a couple of things, I usually only lubricate the springs a bit so where are you putting the grease to properly grease it? Also, where can you find the Aeroshell 6 or Mobil 28?
Thanks.
The ALG website has an installation guide as well as lubrication points in the illustration, this company is great!
After clicking "Learn more by downloading", click download ACT(QMS) Instructions - depending on which one you got.
Lube per instructions when installing....
After that, I use a small amt. of grease on the contacts surfaces that I can reach when the upper is off the lower.
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC03514-1-1.jpg
I googled aeroshell 6 and several places sell small portions of it for IIrc $10 or less.
SW-Shooter
03-07-12, 23:00
I love my ACT, it should be standard equipment for any AR enthusiast that wants a good trigger at a low cost. This is the best trigger under $75.00 that you will ever find. I could only imagine what their higher cost trigger would be like, I'm hooked! Coming from a military background I never thought the AR trigger was that big of a deal, my eyes have been opened. Bravo Zulu ALG Defense.
Funkenstein
03-07-12, 23:20
I love my ACT, it should be standard equipment for any AR enthusiast that wants a good trigger at a low cost. This is the best trigger under $75.00 that you will ever find. I could only imagine what their higher cost trigger would be like, I'm hooked! Coming from a military background I never thought the AR trigger was that big of a deal, my eyes have been opened. Bravo Zulu ALG Defense.
Mine should be here in 3 weeks. Pretty pumped.
Tuned by Geissele what else could be expected?!
hotrodder636
03-07-12, 23:28
Hi guys, I wanted to share a brand new trigger option that I'm trying out. It's from ALG Defense which is a new company started by Amy Geissele, and they will be distributing defense products to local LEO and the U.S. Gov't. With the help of Bill Geissele, they have developed two new triggers one of which is featured in this thread...the ALG Combat Trigger (ACT). Both of these new triggers are enhanced mil-spec triggers. ALG Defense purchases semi finished castings from the same Tier 1 supplier that makes Colts triggers, and then they apply the now famous Geissele magic on the sears and include the much higher quality Geissele pins and springs.
The ACT trigger features:
Advantages for the shooter include....
The ALG Defense ACT trigger pull is smoother and sharper than a stock trigger. This is accomplished by
polishing the sear surfaces smooth and HardLubing the trigger components.
Sear geometry has not been changed from the standard profile so the high reliability that the stock trigger is known for is unchanged.
Trigger and hammer are made from true 8620 alloy steel military specification castings, correctly carburized, quenched and tempered for high surface hardness.
Disconnector is 1070 High Carbon steel properly Austempered into the spring range of hardness.
Springs are corrosion resistant and meet military specifications.
A full force hammer spring is used for positive ignition of all type of ammunition.
Trigger and hammer pins are improved over stock mild steel by using 4140 Chrome-Moly steel that has been quenched and tempered. Pins are centerless ground to a fine finish and a diameter 0.001 larger than stock to reduce play in the trigger assembly while retaining a slip fit hinto the weapon lower receiver. Both pins are Nickel-Teflon coated.
Pull weight is above the U.S. Military minimum pull weight of 5.5lbs but does not reach near the upper limit of 9.5lbs. Generally the pull is around 6lbs.
Advantages for the Armorer include....
The ALG Defense ACT trigger is an enhanced standard trigger so maintenance and installation procedures
are unchanged.
Trigger assembly parts may be interchanged between triggers, there are no matched sets.
As a trigger meeting the essential U.S. Military trigger specifications for the M4 Carbine, the ALG Defense
ACT can be substituted for lower performing stock triggers while still staying in compliance with Unit or Departmental requirements.
Notes about Hardlubing....
HardLubing is ALG's term for electroless Nickel plating with an integral modifier to the base nickel plate. Either Boron or Teflon is used to enhance surface hardness, wear resistance and corrosion resistance and also create favorable tribological properties of the trigger components.
Testing has shown that differential coating of the trigger parts contributes to the sharpness of the ACT's single stage pull. The trigger component is plated with Nickel-Boron which has a high surface hardness combined with excellent wear resistance. The color is a pleasing matte light grey that may be painted on non-functional
surfaces if the shooter so desires (such as the trigger bow that is visible outside the lower receiver). The hammer, disconnector and trigger/hammer pins are plated with Nickel-Teflon which combines a low coefficient of friction with good wear resistance. The Teflon impregnation colors the metal a mottled, greyish/green. Parts coated with Nickel-Teflon cannot be painted. Both coatings are highly corrosion resistant eliminating the oil seal of traditional phosphated firearm components.
The retail price for these will be $65
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC03336-1.jpg
I just installed it this afternoon, so my personal thoughts are brief. I'm already certainly impressed with this trigger considering what it is by nature, and the price point it's set at.
Super simple installation with great directions.
It has easily the nicest pull I've ever felt on a mil spec g.i. type single stage trigger. The pull has an ever so small amount of creep, and then breaks extremely clean. Nice, and loud audible reset as well.
Some really nice touches on this trigger are for sure the hardlubing on the parts, the typical Geissele trigger pins, and lastly but not least the included slave pin that makes the installation process so much easier.
This trigger will be a huge seller!
Very nice lower, which already comes with a KAC two stage.....are you swapping just to try the new setup or are you unhappy with the KAC?
Thanks, Ive owned several KAC 2stage match triggers and ultimately just own a single one now....really just trying to see when it will fail these days. The KAC 2stage feels similar to the SSA and S2S triggers but has nowhere close to the construction, durability, and overall lifetime as the Geissle 2 stage triggers. It's also semi adjust design. The SSA and S2S triggers are non adjust....big plus in my book.
I really enjoy trying different quality triggers, but in the end times, my main rifles will always be equipped with Geissele Super Dynamics models:)
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC02145-1.jpg
Trident:
Any reason you did not circle the contact areas/interface between the trigger nose and hammer notch? Seems that would affect trigger pull more than the disconnector circled.
Mark
Funkenstein
03-08-12, 10:05
Trident:
Any reason you did not circle the contact areas/interface between the trigger nose and hammer notch? Seems that would affect trigger pull more than the disconnector circled.
Mark
I'll just go ahead and post this.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-xYBddN_NJJU/T1jYg0iHgdI/AAAAAAAAADY/0DSW4-HHFHs/s651/alg_instructions.jpg
SomeOtherGuy
03-08-12, 10:06
Trident:
Any reason you did not circle the contact areas/interface between the trigger nose and hammer notch? Seems that would affect trigger pull more than the disconnector circled.
Mark
I was thinking that too. The disconnector surfaces won't affect trigger pull, since they aren't even touching as you pull the trigger. The sear surfaces (trigger nose to hammer notch) aren't reachable when the hammer is cocked, but you can simply control the hammer with your thumb while releasing it, lube the surfaces and then re-cock for reassembly. That's what I do.
For those interested, the QMS and ACT are in stock!
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=QMS
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=ACT
C4
BrigandTwoFour
03-12-12, 14:48
For those interested, the QMS and ACT are in stock!
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=QMS
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=ACT
C4
ALG ordered, can't wait to give it a spin in the new project.
Thanks, Grant!
SW-Shooter
03-12-12, 15:00
For those interested, the QMS and ACT are in stock!
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=QMS
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=ACT
C4
Damn, just a day late.
My ALG-ACT did just fine at during Northern Red Carbine Inception class. It was nice enough that i never even noticed it, which is a good thing. I look forward to shooting with it more!
brzusa.1911
03-12-12, 15:40
TRIDENT, do you have data for the trigger pull weights on the SSA triggers from your own tests?
I currently have a few of them, LUV THEM! The thing I like about them is the predictability - the first stage is always the same and once pull reaches the resistance of the second it will break, no creep whatsoever.
SomeOtherGuy
03-17-12, 19:47
I received an ALG ACT from Grant on Friday and, being curious, installed it in a lower that night. So far I have only dry-fired it, but given the surface finishes I'm not expecting any significant changes within a moderate round count. Frankly, I'm not very impressed. I believe that it DOES meet all the claims made by ALG Defense, but really all this is is a GI type trigger that sucks less than the worse end of GI triggers. I would say trigger pull on mine is between 6-7lbs (calibrated finger) and that's after greasing the sear surfaces and a couple dozen dry fires. There is noticeable creep, although the break is sharper than most GI triggers.
All in all the feel is completely identical to a Spike's Tactical "battle trigger" (NiB coated pieces) that I've been using occasionally for about a year. Not a huge surprise given that both companies are using the LW Schneider parts ("S" marked) and using similar surface treatments. The ALG would still be the better choice IMHO given the precision and treated pins and the well-earned reputation of Geissele products, but they are functionally the same, so far as I can tell.
I have non-special GI style triggers that have a lighter and smoother function than either of those, although not a sharper break. Most are not "S" marked and may be inferior products (i.e. risk of breakage or wear issues) but in use so far they are smoother.
As an aside, the nickel-teflon plated disconnector I received shows tearing marks around all of its edges from the stamping die. There was a thread last year where some people thought that was a serious defect that required sending parts back (I believe that was discussing a Spike's FCG identified as such). I've seen it on almost all GI style disconnectors I've seen in the last 1-2 years, from several different makes, so I'm assuming that is normal now and perfectly acceptable.
I'll keep using my higher-end Geissele triggers, which I find to be in a whole different class, so still a win for Bill...
I measured the ACT and the trigger pull was in the 5LBS range. Good deal for the money.
C4
Funkenstein
03-17-12, 19:59
Nice honest review, but it's Amy's company not Bill!
I received an ALG ACT from Grant on Friday and, being curious, installed it in a lower that night. So far I have only dry-fired it, but given the surface finishes I'm not expecting any significant changes within a moderate round count. Frankly, I'm not very impressed. I believe that it DOES meet all the claims made by ALG Defense, but really all this is is a GI type trigger that sucks less than the worse end of GI triggers. I would say trigger pull on mine is between 6-7lbs (calibrated finger) and that's after greasing the sear surfaces and a couple dozen dry fires. There is noticeable creep, although the break is sharper than most GI triggers.
All in all the feel is completely identical to a Spike's Tactical "battle trigger" (NiB coated pieces) that I've been using occasionally for about a year. Not a huge surprise given that both companies are using the LW Schneider parts ("S" marked) and using similar surface treatments. The ALG would still be the better choice IMHO given the precision and treated pins and the well-earned reputation of Geissele products, but they are functionally the same, so far as I can tell.
I have non-special GI style triggers that have a lighter and smoother function than either of those, although not a sharper break. Most are not "S" marked and may be inferior products (i.e. risk of breakage or wear issues) but in use so far they are smoother.
As an aside, the nickel-teflon plated disconnector I received shows tearing marks around all of its edges from the stamping die. There was a thread last year where some people thought that was a serious defect that required sending parts back (I believe that was discussing a Spike's FCG identified as such). I've seen it on almost all GI style disconnectors I've seen in the last 1-2 years, from several different makes, so I'm assuming that is normal now and perfectly acceptable.
I'll keep using my higher-end Geissele triggers, which I find to be in a whole different class, so still a win for Bill...
My ACT is a tad better than the PSA I had in my PSA lower - a bit lighter. It is not as light or crisp as my DD, and not as smooth as my Colt. Colt is the best. We'll see after a bunch of shooting.
lethal dose
03-17-12, 21:48
My ACT is a tad better than the PSA I had in my PSA lower - a bit ighter. It is not as lighotlct or crisp as my DD, and not as smooth as my Colt. Colt is the best. We'll see after a bunch of shooting.
YOUR colt and YOUR dd... I'll tell you not all colt and DD FCGs are the same. Mil spec triggers vary from kit to kit and from squeeze to squeeze. The ALG triggers seem to have been designed to eliminate the unknown on gi FCGs and offer some level of consistency.
ADCO has the ACT and QMS in stock. Ordered one of each this morning, and within 30 minutes of ordering, I received an email saying they'd been shipped. :D
brzusa.1911
03-19-12, 10:23
I measured the ACT and the trigger pull was in the 5LBS range. Good deal for the money.
C4
According to the specs it should not be less than 5.5lbs.
Quoted from: http://www.algdefense.com/include/pdf/ALG-ACT-Flyer.pdf
"The pull weight is not lower than the M4/M16 minimum weight specification of 5.5lbs."
At least is not 8-9lbs as most GIs. Looks like a good improvement if you have a GI trigger.
According to the specs it should not be less than 5.5lbs.
There's enough variance between pull weight gauges that I'm sure some will get measurements under 5.5lbs.
According to the specs it should not be less than 5.5lbs.
Quoted from: http://www.algdefense.com/include/pdf/ALG-ACT-Flyer.pdf
"The pull weight is not lower than the M4/M16 minimum weight specification of 5.5lbs."
At least is not 8-9lbs as most GIs. Looks like a good improvement if you have a GI trigger.
5.5-5.8 is about what I measured.
C4
ForTehNguyen
03-31-12, 20:41
I got a few QMS in and measured them, and getting about 6.25 to 6.75lbs for the triggers. So it looks like the ACT gets slightly less around 5.75 to 6?
Trident:
Any reason you did not circle the contact areas/interface between the trigger nose and hammer notch? Seems that would affect trigger pull more than the disconnector circled.
Mark
I had a brain fart moment since I almost exclusively run 2 stage triggers:)
Put somewhere around 400-500rds on this trigger over the last two weeks or so bringing the total amt. of rounds fired on it thus far to roughly 1k.
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC04719-1.jpg
My ACT trigger is breaking in nicely after and bunch of dry firing, and about 120 rounds today. Take up is short, and the break is crisp and getting a tad lighter. Very good now.
Trying to find a couple of the ALG Combat Triggers in stock with no luck. Anybody know where they are in stock?
SomeOtherGuy
03-31-12, 21:54
Trying to find a couple of the ALG Combat Triggers in stock with no luck. Anybody know where they are in stock?
G&R has the QMS in stock:
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=QMS
Out of stock on the ACT:
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=ACT
Looks like ADCO has the same status:
http://www.adcofirearms.com/acc/ProductLine_.cfm?brand=ALG%20Defense&product_category=Lower%20Receivers/Parts
Trying to find a couple of the ALG Combat Triggers in stock with no luck. Anybody know where they are in stock?
Mike Ko @ ROG Tactical has both ALG triggers in stock. He's awesome to deal with. Highly recommended. Tell him Christian sent ya!
http://www.rogtac.com/lower-parts.html
Mike Ko @ ROG Tactical has both ALG triggers in stock. He's awesome to deal with. Highly recommended. Tell him Christian sent ya!
http://www.rogtac.com/lower-parts.html
Thanks. Just ordered two.
I got mine from PSA. Fitted it into a S&W lower I just built. Very crisp. May have to replace the FCG's in my other AR's now.
I installed my ACT last week, it is nice but still a little heavy for my preference. Has anyone tried lighter springs (Tubbs, Wolff, J&P) on these yet?
I have a few sets of Spikes battle sets and LWRC NiB that I swapped out the FCG springs with Tubbs springs and they lightened up nicely, figure this will be the same here.
I also have a couple SSA for my Mk12s that are sweet, but I still kinda prefer single stages for my HD guns.
I will say the ACT trigger is an improvement over my factory BCM FCGs, but need a little tweaking for my needs.
http://youtu.be/gfwQBxvdrMI
Quick video of my install and first impressions!
Got my ALGs Combats yesterday and installed one last night.
Beats the hell out of a standard milspec assembly.
No live fire, dry fire only but, the break is nice and smooth. No gritiness.
May be just a little heavy now but I think it will lighten up with time.
I like it.
Also, Mike at ROG Tactical is a straight up guy and very helpful. Highly recommend. My order shipped USPS from CA and arrived in SC two days later. Can't beat that.
Thanks for the heads up krisjon!
Got my ALGs Combats yesterday and installed one last night.
Beats the hell out of a standard milspec assembly.
No live fire, dry fire only but, the break is nice and smooth. No gritiness.
May be just a little heavy now but I think it will lighten up with time.
I like it.
Also, Mike at ROG Tactical is a straight up guy and very helpful. Highly recommend. My order shipped USPS from CA and arrived in SC two days later. Can't beat that.
Thanks for the heads up krisjon!
Happy to help and also get the word out about Mike/ROG.
Just like Grant, it's great to see and work with people who not only "get it", but also know what good business/service is all about. They will always get my $.
Damn now ROG is out too! Looks like the well has dried up on these. They should have just manufactured way more ACTs and less of the QMR. Now I will have to wait to get one of these for the new lower when I get it next week.
Battle*Hound
04-12-12, 19:44
Any updates on in stock stores??
Any updates on in stock stores??
We have them in stock, but will be saving them for either our LPK's OR lower builds.
C4
Battle*Hound
04-12-12, 20:15
We have them in stock, but will be saving them for either our LPK's OR lower builds.
C4
If I may...Does the hardware for your LPK come from anyone in particular? I currently have a RRA lpk with RRA 2 stage... I'd like to replace both.
If I may...Does the hardware for your LPK come from anyone in particular? I currently have a RRA lpk with RRA 2 stage... I'd like to replace both.
Yes. We pick and choose every part. One of the main companies is LMT.
C4
Battle*Hound
04-12-12, 22:57
Yes. We pick and choose every part. One of the main companies is LMT.
C4
Good to hear. I'll check out your site. Thanks
We have them in stock, but will be saving them for either our LPK's OR lower builds.
C4
Any idea when your LPK's will be in stock? I don't see a "notify me when in stock button", is there any way someone can get notified when they are in?
Any idea when your LPK's will be in stock? I don't see a "notify me when in stock button", is there any way someone can get notified when they are in?
We are hoping this month. This being an election year, everything is hard to get.
C4
ACT Triggers are back in stock!
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?search=action&category=ALGD
C4
I am curious as to why some people are poo-poing these triggers. I installed one last week, and although I only put a few rounds through it, myself and others who tried it could definitely feel the difference between it and and standard USGI.
It's no Geissele SSA, but it is a decent trigger for the price.
BrigandTwoFour
04-23-12, 13:25
I am curious as to why some people are poo-poing these triggers. I installed one last week, and although I only put a few rounds through it, myself and others who tried it could definitely feel the difference between it and and standard USGI.
It's no Geissele SSA, but it is a decent trigger for the price.
My initial impression after I installed was that it was OK, but not great. Now, after a lot of actual shooting and not just slowly squeezing in dry fire, I really like the ACT.
I still think its going to replaced with a doner SSA from another rifle, but I'm in no hurry to do so.
I am curious as to why some people are poo-poing these triggers. I installed one last week, and although I only put a few rounds through it, myself and others who tried it could definitely feel the difference between it and and standard USGI.
It's no Geissele SSA, but it is a decent trigger for the price.
I'm curious as well. I have no experience with the ACT, but the QMS I installed last week is bar none the best milspec trigger I've ever pulled.
I could be wrong, but I think it might be a case of people expecting a $65 SSA-E.
I'm sorry I mis-typed. I meant to say the QMS trigger as well.
I'm curious as well. I have no experience with the ACT, but the QMS I installed last week is bar none the best milspec trigger I've ever pulled.
I could be wrong, but I think it might be a case of people expecting a $65 SSA-E.
While I haven't publicly poo-pooed it (I've actually been 1 click away from owning one) I just can't see where it fits into my rifles.
I have what I consider CQB guns and some medium range guns as well.
I don't think I would ever notice the benefits the ALG affords in a CQB distance role. I already have SSA's on my medium range guns and wouldn't go backwards and lose the SSA's benefits.
It's not that I don't think Geissele did a wonderful job perfecting the mil-spec trigger, I simply can't find a situation where it makes sense to me.
In my very humble opinion it's a poor man's SSA, not a rich man's mil-spec.
Best,
Harold
I am curious as to why some people are poo-poing these triggers. I installed one last week, and although I only put a few rounds through it, myself and others who tried it could definitely feel the difference between it and and standard USGI.
It's no Geissele SSA, but it is a decent trigger for the price.
SW-Shooter
04-23-12, 18:01
I'm curious as well. I have no experience with the ACT, but the QMS I installed last week is bar none the best milspec trigger I've ever pulled.
I could be wrong, but I think it might be a case of people expecting a $65 SSA-E.
I have adamantly agreed with your opinion in previous postings. Anyone that expects anything but a drop dead consistent milspec trigger is expecting too much for their $65.00, ALG advertises nothing more than such either.
IG, Hayden, and SW give me plenty of confidence in the fact that the majority of ACT/QMS end users will understand and appreciate the place these new triggers have.
I just noticed that folks can grab the ACT/QMS triggers bundled up with BAD selectors directly from BAD. Full win on that deal:)
http://shop.battlearmsdevelopment.com/BAD-ASS-ALG-ACT-COMBO-SPECIAL-FREE-SHIP-BAD-ASS-ALG-ACT.htm
http://shop.battlearmsdevelopment.com/BAD-ASS-ALG-QMS-COMBO-SPECIAL-FREE-SHIP-BAD-ASS-ALG-QMS.htm
I just bought another QMS trigger from Midway today for shits and giggles. Since I combined it with other stuff I needed, I received a 30.00 discount.
Considering how hard it is to find good parts kits, the ALG QMS provides another option. Pay 45.00 for the hammer/trigger and springs and then for another 20.00 you should be able to locate pivot pins, take down, detents, etc...
Since I always have these on hand, I was able to fully put together another 2 lower parts kits.
the ACT just a QMS thats coated? is it worth the extra $20?
When I asked what advantage/s does the ACT's Hardlubing have over the QMS's non coated parts to Bill Geissele some time ago, this is the answer I received from him....
"The hardlubing helps with the consistency of the trigger pull and how the pull remains the same over many rounds and with inconsistent lubrication. If someone paid attention to lubrication to the QMS I think it would feel almost like the ACT over time."
I haven't tried the QMS so I can't give you my opinion as to whether the $20 is worth it.
Whether it'd be worth it or not depends on your outlook. To put it into context though, the other hard lubed trigger at around the $60 price point is the Spikes one. My experience with the one I had was not stellar....it was a creepy old thing really - because basically all it is is a run of the mill 'luck of the draw' GI trigger which is then coated, without any kind of fettling done to it.
To me, for just a couple of bucks more, you can get an ACT which has been honed by Geissele....a no brainer, IMHO.
To comment on why the ACT/QMS may be being "poo-pooed" a little bit....I should imagine that is because people are expecting a miracle. My personal expectations of the ACT/QMS are that they be consistent trigger to trigger - that the honing/tuning process takes out the usual variables, trigger to trigger, as found in off the shelf GI triggers. I notice a lot of the comments are that they are too heavy for many - could people expand a bit on that? To me, we could use a bit more data, like actual pull weights from the people who think they are too heavy. If heavy means they are breaking at about 6-6.5lb (as per Tridents data).....well, that's really just fine for a GI trigger (pretty sweet, even)....it's the 8-9lb creepy stinkers you sometimes get that are annoying. I think some people may be expecting some sort of 4.5lb JP competitor....personally I think that's very unrealistic as the ACT/QMS make no such claims.
Whether it'd be worth it or not depends on your outlook. To put it into context though, the other hard lubed trigger at around the $60 price point is the Spikes one. My experience with the one I had was not stellar....it was a creepy old thing really - because basically all it is is a run of the mill GI trigger which is then coated, without any kind of fettling done to it.
To me, for just a couple of bucks more, you can get an ACT which has been honed by Geissele....a no brainer, IMHO.
To comment on why the ACT/QMS may be being "poo-pooed" a little bit....I should imagine that is because people are expecting a miracle. My personal expectations of the ACT/QMS are that they be consistent trigger to trigger - that the honing/tuning process takes out the usual variables, trigger to trigger, as found in off the shelf GI triggers. I notice a lot of the comments are that they are too heavy for many - could people expand a bit on that? To me, we could use a bit more data, like actual pull weights from the people who think they are too heavy. If heavy means they are breaking at about 6-6.5lb (as per Tridents data).....well, that's really just fine for a GI trigger (pretty sweet, even)....it's the 8-9lb creepy stinkers you sometimes get that are annoying. I think some people may be expecting some sort of 4.5lb JP competitor....personally I think that's very unrealistic as the ACT/QMS make no such claims.
Agreed. Geissele has created so much brand equity from it's smooth, crisp, high performance models that people are carrying these traits over into these new triggers.
With GI triggers, you can end up with a great one or you can end up with a gritty, crappy one. It's all about rock-solid consistency at a decent, affordable price point. I think that's the sweet spot Geissele seems to be going for - and people need to realize. Don't expect the moon for $45-60 bucks.
SW-Shooter
04-24-12, 15:56
Dbl tap
SW-Shooter
04-24-12, 15:57
It's actually the fault of internet bloggers and posters that compare these triggers to Geissele triggers. They chose to sell these under a different company name (ALG) for the exact reason to avoid comparison. They never once stated that they would compare to their higher end triggers.
It's like a manufacturer that makes soft drinks but also makes orange juice, do you expect them both to taste the same, or cost the same? No you don't, they are both beverages but one goes through a different manufacturing process and contains different ingredients than the other does.
If you expect anything like a competition trigger you need to pony up more money for the good stuff, if you want a consistent mil-spec trigger than the QMS & ACT is right up your alley. Yes, I do feel the $20.00 coating is worth it, you'll know it is when you feel it.
ForTehNguyen
04-24-12, 16:38
both ACT and QMS are in stock at palmetto state armory
richiecotite
04-24-12, 18:22
My only experience with AR triggers are wit my old rifle (DPMS, don't laugh at me) and my new build (PSA lower, DD lpk with DD upper) and i could definitely tell a difference. It breaks much sharper, and seems to have a lower weight pull. To me, this seems like a great option for a shooter that doesn't want a 2 stage, or is just looking to upgrade their trigger for a great ptice.
I don't have $200 for a trigger, love the feel and consistency of my ALG Combat trigger. Worth $65 to me, my groups are much better now than with the previous trigger.
While I haven't publicly poo-pooed it (I've actually been 1 click away from owning one) I just can't see where it fits into my rifles.
I have what I consider CQB guns and some medium range guns as well.
I don't think I would ever notice the benefits the ALG affords in a CQB distance role. I already have SSA's on my medium range guns and wouldn't go backwards and lose the SSA's benefits.
It's not that I don't think Geissele did a wonderful job perfecting the mil-spec trigger, I simply can't find a situation where it makes sense to me.
In my very humble opinion it's a poor man's SSA, not a rich man's mil-spec.
Best,
Harold
Some triggers are not like others, my daniel defense trigger rocks but the one that came with my vltor was absolutely vile, it's so bad that I'm not sure if can stomach giving a company like that any more money.
Anyway a low priced, guaranteed to not suck trigger seems like a pretty damn good offering if you ask me
Also what relation does this trigger have to the SSA other than the manufacturer? Sounds like a vortex red dot vs s&b 5x25 comparison
My point was that at CQB distance/ROF I don't think I would even notice if I had an SSA, ACT or GI trigger.
If I'm looking for more predictability in a trigger I use an SSA. If shooting groups with a crappy mil-spec trigger in on your agenda I would buy an ACT in a heart beat. I don't shoot groups in my CQB firearms and that's why they get mil-spec triggers.
As to a Vortex vs S&B...that's my point. Why would a buy a trigger/optic for a purpose I have no intent on using it for? Red dots get mil spec triggers, high magnification optics get SSA-E, DMR's. I have no desire to "over-trigger" my firearms.
I'm sure they are smooth, lighter weight mil-spec trigger brought to a degree of perfection not many others, if anyone could duplicate. I just don't see one fitting in my guns.
That's all I was saying.
Some triggers are not like others, my daniel defense trigger rocks but the one that came with my vltor was absolutely vile, it's so bad that I'm not sure if can stomach giving a company like that any more money.
Anyway a low priced, guaranteed to not suck trigger seems like a pretty damn good offering if you ask me
Also what relation does this trigger have to the SSA other than the manufacturer? Sounds like a vortex red dot vs s&b 5x25 comparison
I have three ARs (that I'm going to keep), a 20" all BCM, a 16" BCM middie upper/Bushmaster lower (changed to milspec RE and Modstock) with ACT, and an all PSA 16" SS/HB middie.
I want the same trigger feel on all three. I got one ACT to try on the Bushmaster. If it works ok, I will get two more. I haven't had a chance to shoot it, but will see if it suffices for the 20" and prairie dogs.
By the way, have tried two BCM lowers , one Bushmaster lower and four lowers w/PSA LPKs and the Bushmaster has the best feel to me. Go figure! Of course the ACT feels better than any of the others.
I hope the ALG triggers results in fewer triggers messed up by B. S. in CO (I almost got one, but I used the orange search button first).
Hal
SW-Shooter
05-04-12, 19:14
My point was that at CQB distance/ROF I don't think I would even notice if I had an SSA, ACT or GI trigger.
If I'm looking for more predictability in a trigger I use an SSA. If shooting groups with a crappy mil-spec trigger in on your agenda I would buy an ACT in a heart beat. I don't shoot groups in my CQB firearms and that's why they get mil-spec triggers.
As to a Vortex vs S&B...that's my point. Why would a buy a trigger/optic for a purpose I have no intent on using it for? Red dots get mil spec triggers, high magnification optics get SSA-E, DMR's. I have no desire to "over-trigger" my firearms.
I'm sure they are smooth, lighter weight mil-spec trigger brought to a degree of perfection not many others, if anyone could duplicate. I just don't see one fitting in my guns.
That's all I was saying.
Nobody worth their salt would say they wouldn't notice the difference a quality trigger makes versus that of a run of the mill one. The one trigger for this application and another trigger for that application is simply fudd/old school logic. The biggest asset behind the trigger is the person behind it. Clearly your school of thought is flawed.
My logic is that if I have to un-ass the AO I can grab any one of my AR's and GTFO. I don't have this one for distance, this one for CQB, this one for plinking. That's a bunch of flawed logic. You aren't going to carry 3 different rifles with you if you have to go foot mobile, that is why you have one Go-To AR that can efficiently handle anything you come up against. Having access to your preferred rifle is a luxury, your training should play to the fact that your luxury isn't an option. In a world where ounces become pounds, and pounds become a liability I'd be searching for the ultimate do all platform and train your ass off with that. Everything else is internet cool guy fodder.
Nobody worth their salt would say they wouldn't notice the difference a quality trigger makes versus that of a run of the mill one. The one trigger for this application and another trigger for that application is simply fudd/old school logic. The biggest asset behind the trigger is the person behind it. Clearly your school of thought is flawed.
My logic is that if I have to un-ass the AO I can grab any one of my AR's and GTFO. I don't have this one for distance, this one for CQB, this one for plinking. That's a bunch of flawed logic. You aren't going to carry 3 different rifles with you if you have to go foot mobile, that is why you have one Go-To AR that can efficiently handle anything you come up against. Having access to your preferred rifle is a luxury, your training should play to the fact that your luxury isn't an option. In a world where ounces become pounds, and pounds become a liability I'd be searching for the ultimate do all platform and train your ass off with that. Everything else is internet cool guy fodder.
I hear you. That's why my goto has a Bushmaster (much modified) lower. It's not "on the books". It does have a BCM upper and is pretty much brought up to "Mil Spec." Also has Needed goodies (ACT trigger,mil spec RE, Modstock, Magpul MOE hand guard, Aimpoint CompM2.)
Guess I'm not worth my salt then...oh well.
When I'm running 7-10 yd drills with .15 splits I don't really notice creep, take up, 1st/2nd stage and a clean break. I guess that's just me. My focus is elsewhere in those situations. I've run the drills with milspec and SSA's and nothing, either way, sticks out.
When 3 G'ing or hunting I prefer a more predictable trigger.
In your example of "GTFO" the trigger on my gun would be the least of my worries. If I can't hit a man sized target at a couple hundred yds with a standard trigger, a $200 trigger isn't going to help me.
You're right, it is the man behind the gun. I don't need to put a $200 trigger on every one of my AR's to hit targets at distance.
While you may think my school of thought is flawed, it's not, for me.
I was simply offering my opinion based on what works for me.
Best,
Harold
Nobody worth their salt would say they wouldn't notice the difference a quality trigger makes versus that of a run of the mill one. The one trigger for this application and another trigger for that application is simply fudd/old school logic. The biggest asset behind the trigger is the person behind it. Clearly your school of thought is flawed.
My logic is that if I have to un-ass the AO I can grab any one of my AR's and GTFO. I don't have this one for distance, this one for CQB, this one for plinking. That's a bunch of flawed logic. You aren't going to carry 3 different rifles with you if you have to go foot mobile, that is why you have one Go-To AR that can efficiently handle anything you come up against. Having access to your preferred rifle is a luxury, your training should play to the fact that your luxury isn't an option. In a world where ounces become pounds, and pounds become a liability I'd be searching for the ultimate do all platform and train your ass off with that. Everything else is internet cool guy fodder.
SW-Shooter
05-06-12, 17:58
Guess I'm not worth my salt then...oh well.
When I'm running 7-10 yd drills with .15 splits I don't really notice creep, take up, 1st/2nd stage and a clean break. I guess that's just me. My focus is elsewhere in those situations. I've run the drills with milspec and SSA's and nothing, either way, sticks out.
When 3 G'ing or hunting I prefer a more predictable trigger.
In your example of "GTFO" the trigger on my gun would be the least of my worries. If I can't hit a man sized target at a couple hundred yds with a standard trigger, a $200 trigger isn't going to help me.
You're right, it is the man behind the gun. I don't need to put a $200 trigger on every one of my AR's to hit targets at distance.
While you may think my school of thought is flawed, it's not, for me.
I was simply offering my opinion based on what works for me.
Best,
Harold
:lol: I don't know any 3 gunner that doesn't know the difference between a good trigger versus a bad one. If you're not paying attention to your trigger pull, you are missing. As for your splits, I will be the first to call you out and put that shit up on youtube yo! You obviously gave it more thought than I did, maybe because you needed to read a little bit more on the internet, maybe because you just think you know. You decide, I've got better things to do. Go with what works for you, but until I see some unedited video, you da man.
ETA: I never, not once advocated shelling out $200 for any trigger. This is the topic "ALG Defense's new ALG Combat Trigger (ACT)...", my 2 cents was that I think the trigger is a benefit and worth the $65.00.
You really can't run a VTAC 1-5 (et al) @ 7 with .15 splits?
If so, a trigger is the last improvement on your list.
:lol: I don't know any 3 gunner that doesn't know the difference between a good trigger versus a bad one. If you're not paying attention to your trigger pull, you are missing. As for your splits, I will be the first to call you out and put that shit up on youtube yo! You obviously gave it more thought than I did, maybe because you needed to read a little bit more on the internet, maybe because you just think you know. You decide, I've got better things to do. Go with what works for you, but until I see some unedited video, you da man.
ETA: I never, not once advocated shelling out $200 for any trigger. This is the topic "ALG Defense's new ALG Combat Trigger (ACT)...", my 2 cents was that I think the trigger is a benefit and worth the $65.00.
SW-Shooter
05-06-12, 18:47
You really can't run a VTAC 1-5 (et al) @ 7 with .15 splits?
If so, a trigger is the last improvement on your list.
I'm not the one saying I can do anything, you are. I don't time myself, that's not my idea of training. I'm more of a total exertion and then put rounds on target kind of guy. Splits? I couldn't care less what a timer is telling me, I listen to what my body tells me and try to improve from there. You made the claim, stick to it or just stop posting.
Got it.
Thanks.
[QUOTE=SW-Shooter;1300505]I don't time myself, that's not my idea of training. I'm more of a total exertion and then put rounds on target kind of guy. Splits? I couldn't care less what a timer is telling me, I listen to what my body tells me and try to improve from there./QUOTE]
Haven't messed with my AR in a while, but am so glad to see this product and this thread. Muchas gracias! Some time ago I decided "when the day comes" I'd just break down and pay $200 for a G. Now I'm thrilled to be able to do so for $65, and to have the $45 option is an amazing breakthrough for the marketplace.
I have a GI trigger which has broken-in enough to be usable (after maybe 3k rounds), and I can't wait to have a new trigger do the same thing and likely better, out of the box. My 2nd best AR trigger is a RRA 2-stage, which also gets me on target. 3rd is an LMT, which maybe will never break, but also has never broken-in. It's still basically too heavy to be usable, and that's the one which will reside in an oily ziplock... IMHO there is no reason for an AR to be sporting anything less than a Geissele (or ALG) ever again.
ALG's QMS and ACT triggers are nice. But they are no where near a Giessele trigger. I don't think they were brought to the market to be on the same playing field. They fill a void that been overlooked for far too long.
If you think your QMS or ACT will be just like a 2 stage "G" your doing it wrong.
Guess I'm not worth my salt then...oh well.
When I'm running 7-10 yd drills with .15 splits I don't really notice creep, take up, 1st/2nd stage and a clean break. I guess that's just me. My focus is elsewhere in those situations. I've run the drills with milspec and SSA's and nothing, either way, sticks out.
When 3 G'ing or hunting I prefer a more predictable trigger.
In your example of "GTFO" the trigger on my gun would be the least of my worries. If I can't hit a man sized target at a couple hundred yds with a standard trigger, a $200 trigger isn't going to help me.
You're right, it is the man behind the gun. I don't need to put a $200 trigger on every one of my AR's to hit targets at distance.
While you may think my school of thought is flawed, it's not, for me.
I was simply offering my opinion based on what works for me.
Best,
HaroldDon't sweat it Harold, some people will bitch no matter what you say or what video's you may or may not post. The problem being is that I don't criticize people for their choices for triggers in various rifle set ups, on the other hand the other camp can act like rabid dogs defending their choices, no matter what you show them.
I have done comparisons with a USGI vs an SSA vs a S3G for speed. I cannot tell a bit a difference in times with similar accuracy in up close drills. I have actually run a Colt USGI trigger faster than any other trigger with .10 splits and my S3G is .11's. Maybe splitting hairs but it is what it is.
As for accuracy in a non magnified (red dot only), non precision rifle, I cannot definitively give any accuracy advantage to any trigger over a standard USGI trigger all the way out to 450 yards. Done this testing quite a bit, but I guarantee someone will probably whine about it. It happens all the time, even in the comments on youtube.
Again I could care less what trigger people chose to purchase. I even suggest the ALG or other Geissele triggers all the time and I own my fair share of aftermarket type triggers. But when people suggest that others go out and purchase them as a default when perhaps they are better served with actually learning to manipulate a trigger and become more proficient in their basic fundamentals to begin with, well then that is piss poor advice IMO.
Personal experiences count for a lot. Your's just may be clearly different than others. I also understand that my experiences are also not the same as others and never make absolute claims about that either. Experience and skill levels can dictate much. Don't sweat the shit that others give you here Harold and don't let that stop you from posting what your experiences are either.
I just picked up a BCM complete lower (all stock parts nothing fancy), and ran drills using my new BCM 14.5" middy with Surefire brake. The drill was 6 rounds at 25 yards, all rounds inside the silhouette to count, and I was using a 4x Browe optic. The only thing I did to the upper was add a Centurion Arms rail. Splits are shown below.
First Round from low ready - .32
2nd- .11
3rd- .13
4th- .08
5th- .10
6th- .11
Total- .85
I don't consider myself all that wonderful of a shooter, but I must have been in the zone yesterday as I was able to duplicate these times, over and over. Can I shoot with a standard trigger, evidently I can for my own standards. That doesn't change the variable nature of triggers, and it doesn't change a good trigger still always feels better to me. The ALGs hit that "good trigger" feel, and will be a well worthwhile upgrade to me for out of the box triggers which feel extra coarse.
For people who don't buy the above times, hit my Flickr page and watch the vid showing the timer. http://www.flickr.com/photos/stickgunner/7222719958/in/photostream
....
First Round from low ready - .32
2nd- .11
3rd- .13
4th- .08
5th- .10
6th- .11
Total- .85
Definitely smoking fast! I know that even on full auto, rifle set up dependent, my times are generally in the .07-.09 ish range. I do my speed tests on 8" @ 7 yards but I am curious to know how fast I could actually run a trigger with say a larger or no hit zone. I don't think for myself personally I could pull .08's unless if I relied on some type of a bump with say the S3G which I can get it to do with the rifle shoulder mounted in a more precision stance and a precision type of trigger finger placement and pull.
One thing I have noticed after several hundred rounds of testing when trigger finger fatigue sets in, I am definitely more consistent in split times with say my SSA or S3G trigger. Now that would be really splitting hairs for myself, but when fatigue sets in I am more likely to see trigger split variances of .02-.03's in a USGI compared to say the SSA or S3G. For myself the overall consistency between splits seems to be better with the S3G with variances consistently within .01-.02 sec of each other. This is pretty darn repeatable in all my strings of fire.
ennbeegunny15
05-19-12, 10:10
Yessss! This is why I'm here. Very informative. I was on the fence about this trigger, now I've hopped over. Thanks, it's going on my next build. :D
saddlerocker
05-31-12, 20:51
Has anyone had a problem engaging the safety when the bolt is locked back?
Long story short.......
There is a thread on TOS stating that ALG doesnt warranty products not directly bought from them, so this guy who bought his trigger from PSA (as did I) is out of luck, as PSA doesnt warranty products not made by PSA.
I just received my ACT trigger, but my lower is being engraved at the moment.
I dont see a huge need to engage the safety when the bolt is locked back, but it does come up from time to time.
Apparently ALG admitted a problem and made an exception and took this guys trigger back.
Im just wondering if this is a defect with one trigger, or a design flaw.
Has anyone had a problem engaging the safety when the bolt is locked back?
Long story short.......
There is a thread on TOS stating that ALG doesnt warranty products not directly bought from them, so this guy who bought his trigger from PSA (as did I) is out of luck, as PSA doesnt warranty products not made by PSA.
I just received my ACT trigger, but my lower is being engraved at the moment.
I dont see a huge need to engage the safety when the bolt is locked back, but it does come up from time to time.
Apparently ALG admitted a problem and made an exception and took this guys trigger back.
Im just wondering if this is a defect with one trigger, or a design flaw.
My trigger has this problem as well.
Its a QMS from PSA.
Yep same problem here. Put the ACT in a few days ago and it definitely drags while putting on safe with the bolt locked back. Pull your safety detent out and inspect it.
-Jax
ETA: Will call with problem shortly and let you guys know what happened.
Just saw some replies to this thread in the last couple days and didn't notice your post below until now. I appreciate the encouragement, thanks.
I share your sentiments regarding red dot equipped weapons. I recently watched your review video of the ACT and noticed the same thing on a couple of my heavier use mil spec triggers. The trigger pull was without creep and relatively crisp compared to a few triggers that have with very few rounds through them.
As for your splits, very impressive (Stickman as well). Someday I hope to approach those numbers. I really didn't think .15's would have caused such a harsh disbelief but they did. Obviously .15's are not (or shouldn't be) unrealistic numbers. Oh well, I'll live.
Thanks again.
Harold
Don't sweat it Harold, some people will bitch no matter what you say or what video's you may or may not post. The problem being is that I don't criticize people for their choices for triggers in various rifle set ups, on the other hand the other camp can act like rabid dogs defending their choices, no matter what you show them.
I have done comparisons with a USGI vs an SSA vs a S3G for speed. I cannot tell a bit a difference in times with similar accuracy in up close drills. I have actually run a Colt USGI trigger faster than any other trigger with .10 splits and my S3G is .11's. Maybe splitting hairs but it is what it is.
As for accuracy in a non magnified (red dot only), non precision rifle, I cannot definitively give any accuracy advantage to any trigger over a standard USGI trigger all the way out to 450 yards. Done this testing quite a bit, but I guarantee someone will probably whine about it. It happens all the time, even in the comments on youtube.
Again I could care less what trigger people chose to purchase. I even suggest the ALG or other Geissele triggers all the time and I own my fair share of aftermarket type triggers. But when people suggest that others go out and purchase them as a default when perhaps they are better served with actually learning to manipulate a trigger and become more proficient in their basic fundamentals to begin with, well then that is piss poor advice IMO.
Personal experiences count for a lot. Your's just may be clearly different than others. I also understand that my experiences are also not the same as others and never make absolute claims about that either. Experience and skill levels can dictate much. Don't sweat the shit that others give you here Harold and don't let that stop you from posting what your experiences are either.
My trigger has this problem as well.
Its a QMS from PSA.
I would still contact ALG to be sure they wouldn't cover it.
SW-Shooter
06-01-12, 23:55
Has anyone had a problem engaging the safety when the bolt is locked back?
Long story short.......
There is a thread on TOS stating that ALG doesnt warranty products not directly bought from them, so this guy who bought his trigger from PSA (as did I) is out of luck, as PSA doesnt warranty products not made by PSA.
I just received my ACT trigger, but my lower is being engraved at the moment.
I dont see a huge need to engage the safety when the bolt is locked back, but it does come up from time to time.
Apparently ALG admitted a problem and made an exception and took this guys trigger back.
Im just wondering if this is a defect with one trigger, or a design flaw.
I have a non PSA lower. ALG ACT and BAD-ASS safety installed. I notice it is very difficult to engage the safety with the bolt in the rearward position. I'm not too concerned because I rarely engage the safety when the bolt is in the rear position anyway, it is usually engaged prior to the bolt being locked rearward. Is this a potential deadline type issue?
Called and left a message but no response yet. I'll try an email Monday.
The selector issue is aggravating for me especially during certain dry fire practices I perform with the bolt locked back and trying to work the safety.
Just for the record, I am not on here to just bash the trigger. Besides this one issue I am very impressed with it. Very little creep, crisp break, and the mil-spec reset that I like.
-Jax
I have the ALG-QMS installed but have not fired with it yet. I just checked and no problem going to safe with the bolt to the rear.
Subscribed... I'm interested to find out if I should buy a ALG QMS for $45 to replace my stock Spikes trigger. Worth it?
Subscribed... I'm interested to find out if I should buy a ALG QMS for $45 to replace my stock Spikes trigger. Worth it?
Short answer is: NO
ForTehNguyen
07-07-12, 17:30
Subscribed... I'm interested to find out if I should buy a ALG QMS for $45 to replace my stock Spikes trigger. Worth it?
if the spikes trigger is near 7#, has grit/creep, it maybe worthwhile. If you have multiple ARs the consistency is nice to have between triggers.
If potential buyers of the ACT trigger define their expectations up front prior to trying it, chances are a lot greater that the end user will be satisfied with this unit, or forgo it all together.
If your current trigger sucks big time, and you don't have the coin for a SSA/E SDC/E trigger.....or are required to run a mil spec standard trigger, than the ACT should be a great addition to your rifle.
If money is no object, if you want the best feeling trigger pull, if you can run any particular trigger you want.....or ultimately if your current trigger is mediocre, than stick with what you got until you can afford a $170-$225 GA trigger model.
I have the QMS in one of my carbines and I have installed them in others. I recommend them, especially if doing a build because I think it makes eco-sense.
The ones that I have handled have all performed as I expected.
CarlosDJackal
07-09-12, 14:16
I contacted ALG Defense and they wanted to test the trigger in other lower and upper receiver combinations first. Fortunately, I already did this and they told that they are going to send me a shipping bill so that they can replace my ACT.
Stand by to stand by!!
I contacted ALG Defense and they wanted to test the trigger in other lower and upper receiver combinations first. Fortunately, I already did this and they told that they are going to send me a shipping bill so that they can replace my ACT.
Stand by to stand by!!
I quickly looked and I'm not seeing what problem you're having, but...I had problems with mine, tested in multiple lowers (with different uppers). And they still insisted that my "lower is out of spec". I put that in quotes because it was like they kept just ignoring the fact that the problems I had followed the trigger regardless of all other variables, yet they still wanted to pin the problem on my lower (as in one single lower, even though I tried the trigger in several).
I think they have a problem with tolerances or something going on...seems like I'm hearing of several instances of problems lately. I hope they start owning up to it if it is their parts causing the problems rather than blowing people off like they did me.
Hm I think I may pass on getting any ALG triggers... I'd rather buy a trigger from a company that owns up to any mistakes and offers quality customer service.
I contacted ALG Defense and they wanted to test the trigger in other lower and upper receiver combinations first. Fortunately, I already did this and they told that they are going to send me a shipping bill so that they can replace my ACT.
Stand by to stand by!!
Carlos,
Did you email them or call them? I've called twice and cant get anyone to return my calls. Thanks,
-Jax
ETA: Just sent them an email so we'll see.
Jax,
We have had only two triggers that refuse to go on safe with the bolt carrier locked back. Amy is requesting your shipping address to send you a new trigger and an SASE for the old one. Carlos, she is doing the same thing for you.
folks have been having communication problems the last couple of weeks because we had a new email server put in that still needs some bugs worked out. If someone ever can't contact ALG just give Geissele a call and we will help you out.
Jax,
We have had only two triggers that refuse to go on safe with the bolt carrier locked back. Amy is requesting your shipping address to send you a new trigger and an SASE for the old one. Carlos, she is doing the same thing for you.
folks have been having communication problems the last couple of weeks because we had a new email server put in that still needs some bugs worked out. If someone ever can't contact ALG just give Geissele a call and we will help you out.
Sagmill,
I just received Amy's email and have replied. I sure appreciate the shipment of a new trigger and hope I didn't sound like too much of a tool on my last post. Many thanks again to you and Amy. That's great customer service.
-Jax
CarlosDJackal
07-12-12, 08:57
Carlos,
Did you email them or call them? I've called twice and cant get anyone to return my calls. Thanks,
-Jax
ETA: Just sent them an email so we'll see.
Sorry, I had to go digging for this thread. I received the replacement trigger and SASE Tuesday and sent back the faulty trigger yesterday.
The replacement still binds up with the Aero Precision lower but at least it does go into SAFE with a little more pressure. I figure that it should get easier once it wears down some more.
The trigger pull weighed in at 5.5 to 6 pounds.
Sorry, I had to go digging for this thread. I received the replacement trigger and SASE Tuesday and sent back the faulty trigger yesterday.
The replacement still binds up with the Aero Precision lower but at least it does go into SAFE with a little more pressure. I figure that it should get easier once it wears down some more.
The trigger pull weighed in at 5.5 to 6 pounds.
I gotcha and thanks for the reply Carlos. Let us know if the switch gets easier to work with time. I'll report back when I receive my new trigger group.
-Jax
Update
After a couple hundred rounds mine has started feeling much better. The pre-travel is not sticky anymore, it has become more spongy or glock like. I kinda like it.
Reading a couple of these threads has me ever so slightly concerned. I just picked up a ALG ACT today and found the disconnector to look some what odd. The casting seems horrible.
I have a couple rifles with Daniel Defense LPK's in them and the disconnectors look SMOOTH and nice. Hell, the couple of DPMS LPK's I've had didn't even look like this.
I went back into my LGS and had them pull two of the other ALG ACT triggers they had in-stock and we checked the disconnectors and they had this same weird casting crap going on. I stopped by a friends who has one and compared mine to what he has installed in his rifle and his looks SMOOTH and nice, just like I would have expected to see one look. He bought his when they first came out though. Did something change about production?
Anyway all the points of contact appear to be fine but my concern is a weak part after seeing the casting issues. Not sure what to think. Why were all the ones at my local LGS like this but the one my friend ordered from Rainer Arms looks nice and smooth, nothing like the one I got?
Should I be concerned? I mean I know it's just a disconnector but still, now it has me wondering about overall quality control etc.
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj3/roadblockxl/AR%20Rifles/IMG_20120714_115210.jpg
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj3/roadblockxl/AR%20Rifles/IMG_20120714_115146.jpg
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj3/roadblockxl/AR%20Rifles/IMG_20120714_115134.jpg
Don't think mil spec disconnectors are a casting, but rather die cut or punched out of the steel stock. Those pits and rough lines are pretty common in my limited experience, but should have zero impact on trigger pull as the disconnector comes into action when the trigger is released, not pulled. Would not be worried about the cosmetics, but you can always speak with the manufacturer since you are concerned.
Mark
Yeah i was thinking they were cut too but then I saw that mess around the edges and thought WTH, is this cast...?
Like I said, I've NEVER see one like that in my limited experience either.
GUNSLINGER733
07-14-12, 20:01
How does this trigger compare to a geisselle combat unit?
Heavy Metal
07-14-12, 20:55
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj3/roadblockxl/AR%20Rifles/IMG_20120714_115134.jpg
The Disconnector is a Die Stamping. The rough edges are cosmetic. The only critical point is the tip of the hook itself.
SomeOtherGuy
07-15-12, 22:29
How does this trigger compare to a geisselle combat unit?
Totally different. The ACT is a modestly improved GI trigger. The Geissele combat triggers are a different design with a different and overall much nicer feel. They really aren't intended for the same market anyway.
Here's an update on my ACT trigger. As posted earlier my selector was difficult to move to the safe position while the bolt was locked to the rear. Amy sent me a new trigger no questions asked and I received it earlier today. I was glad to discover that the replacement trigger works perfect. With the bolt locked rearward the selector now works as it should. As an added bonus the trigger is improved over the prior one. It has a slightly lighter pull and absolutely zero 'grittiness' in the travel. The one that was replaced, even after 1300 or so dry and live fire pulls, still had a small amount of grit. Great service from Amy and the rest of the ALG/Geissele crew.
-Jax
Here's an update on my ACT trigger. As posted earlier my selector was difficult to move to the safe position while the bolt was locked to the rear. Amy sent me a new trigger no questions asked and I received it earlier today. I was glad to discover that the replacement trigger works perfect. With the bolt locked rearward the selector now works as it should. As an added bonus the trigger is improved over the prior one. It has a slightly lighter pull and absolutely zero creep. The one that was replaced, even after 1300 or so dry and live fire pulls, still had a small amount of grit. Great service from Amy and the rest of the ALG/Geissele crew.
-Jax
Really glad to hear that your squared away now as your certainly one of the good guys around here, and voices such as yours should be listened to when they express a concern, or problem about a particular piece of kit.
Nobody is perfect, and no widget is perfect...however I think Amy & Bill make for a fantastic insurance policy against the inevitable lemon or two. They have the right "the customer is always right even if they aren't " attitude I've found most successful businesses have.
Thanks for keeping us abreast on that....hopefully anyone else who has an issue will have it straightened away asap as well.
Here's an update on my ACT trigger. As posted earlier my selector was difficult to move to the safe position while the bolt was locked to the rear. Amy sent me a new trigger no questions asked and I received it earlier today. I was glad to discover that the replacement trigger works perfect. With the bolt locked rearward the selector now works as it should. As an added bonus the trigger is improved over the prior one. It has a slightly lighter pull and absolutely zero creep. The one that was replaced, even after 1300 or so dry and live fire pulls, still had a small amount of grit. Great service from Amy and the rest of the ALG/Geissele crew.
-Jax
Indicative of a class-act company. So many others make excuses. These guys make it happen.
Tier One Arms
07-18-12, 12:57
The ALG trigger is a great improvement over the stock unit, it's one of the single best small budget mods you can do to your rifle, that and a BCM charging handle.
Finally got my ALG ACT installed and I have a question! I saw the post about the ALG ACT not allowing the safety to engage when the bolt is blocked back. I do not have exactly that problem with the safety not working BUT I have noticed that when I lock my bolt back that when I toggle between FIRE and SAFE, I have a noticeable notchy-ness. It's like the safety is hitting on something half way between FIRE and SAFE.
I'm able to push with slight force to get it all the way to SAFE but checking this, it does NOT happen when the bolt it forward.
Reading the issues here, I'm worried something is hitting. I don't want to wear any parts prematurely so I thought I would get other ALG user opinions on this. Is this normally or no?
I did take it out and put a few hundred rounds threw my rifle with the new trigger. I've oiled and cleaned, greased, flipped the safety on and off in every mode trying to smooth it out, the notchy-ness isn't going away when the bolts back.
Finally got my ALG ACT installed and I have a question! I saw the post about the ALG ACT not allowing the safety to engage when the bolt is blocked back. I do not have exactly that problem with the safety not working BUT I have noticed that when I lock my bolt back that when I toggle between FIRE and SAFE, I have a noticeable notchy-ness. It's like the safety is hitting on something half way between FIRE and SAFE.
I'm able to push with slight force to get it all the way to SAFE but checking this, it does NOT happen when the bolt it forward.
Reading the issues here, I'm worried something is hitting. I don't want to wear any parts prematurely so I thought I would get other ALG user opinions on this. Is this normally or no?
I did take it out and put a few hundred rounds threw my rifle with the new trigger. I've oiled and cleaned, greased, flipped the safety on and off in every mode trying to smooth it out, the notchy-ness isn't going away when the bolts back.
PM sent
Finally got my ALG ACT installed and I have a question! I saw the post about the ALG ACT not allowing the safety to engage when the bolt is blocked back. I do not have exactly that problem with the safety not working BUT I have noticed that when I lock my bolt back that when I toggle between FIRE and SAFE, I have a noticeable notchy-ness. It's like the safety is hitting on something half way between FIRE and SAFE.
I'm able to push with slight force to get it all the way to SAFE but checking this, it does NOT happen when the bolt it forward.
Reading the issues here, I'm worried something is hitting. I don't want to wear any parts prematurely so I thought I would get other ALG user opinions on this. Is this normally or no?
I did take it out and put a few hundred rounds threw my rifle with the new trigger. I've oiled and cleaned, greased, flipped the safety on and off in every mode trying to smooth it out, the notchy-ness isn't going away when the bolts back.
I have the ALG QMS trigger and this is happening with my trigger. With the bolt open it feels like the safety selector is rubbing against something.
If there is a fix for this I would like to know :)
I have the ALG QMS trigger and this is happening with my trigger. With the bolt open it feels like the safety selector is rubbing against something.
If there is a fix for this I would like to know :)
Have you compared the parts side by side with the ones previously in your rifle?
I have the ALG QMS trigger and this is happening with my trigger. With the bolt open it feels like the safety selector is rubbing against something.
If there is a fix for this I would like to know :)
Skittles,
I should have done this before I sent my old ACT back but do you have access to a micrometer and if so can you mic the rear section of the trigger bar?
-Jax
There are a couple of things going on.
The ACT is plated and this adds material to the trigger/hammer and pins. This extra material reduces the clearance with the safety with the bolt locked back. With this reduction in clearance there can be a tolerance interference from trigger to weapon. In some guns there is no problem and in others the safety is hard to turn into safe with the bolt locked back.
With the QMS the same thing can happen due to the larger diameter pins. The poster above is the only case I have heard with the QMS.
The fix is to use normal, stock diameter pins. We are making stock sized nickel teflon and oxided pins that we will send out to anyone who has problems. They will be ready in about three weeks or so.
In the meantime try the stock pins in your trigger and this should take care of most issues until the ALG pins are ready.
Redhat, I did compare the parts. I didn't notice any differences that would tell me the new parts would function differently.
Jaxman7, No micrometer.
There are a couple of things going on.
The ACT is plated and this adds material to the trigger/hammer and pins. This extra material reduces the clearance with the safety with the bolt locked back. With this reduction in clearance there can be a tolerance interference from trigger to weapon. In some guns there is no problem and in others the safety is hard to turn into safe with the bolt locked back.
With the QMS the same thing can happen due to the larger diameter pins. The poster above is the only case I have heard with the QMS.
The fix is to use normal, stock diameter pins. We are making stock sized nickel teflon and oxided pins that we will send out to anyone who has problems. They will be ready in about three weeks or so.
In the meantime try the stock pins in your trigger and this should take care of most issues until the ALG pins are ready.
I will give this a try and report back. Thanks
There are a couple of things going on.
The ACT is plated and this adds material to the trigger/hammer and pins. This extra material reduces the clearance with the safety with the bolt locked back. With this reduction in clearance there can be a tolerance interference from trigger to weapon. In some guns there is no problem and in others the safety is hard to turn into safe with the bolt locked back.
With the QMS the same thing can happen due to the larger diameter pins. The poster above is the only case I have heard with the QMS.
The fix is to use normal, stock diameter pins. We are making stock sized nickel teflon and oxided pins that we will send out to anyone who has problems. They will be ready in about three weeks or so.
In the meantime try the stock pins in your trigger and this should take care of most issues until the ALG pins are ready.
Thanks for the info. I'll give my stock pins a go and if that solves the issue, I guess I'll wait for new pins!
Really the issue is workable, I could simply NOT engage the safety with the bolt back but I was curious to know why it might be doing this.
Other then the bolt back question this trigger is the NICEST G.I. trigger I've ever felt! Completely worth the $65 dollars! Night and day difference and I wasn't running crap before either, I had a Daniel Defense trigger group.
The ACT is plated and this adds material to the trigger/hammer and pins. This extra material reduces the clearance with the safety with the bolt locked back. With this reduction in clearance there can be a tolerance interference from trigger to weapon. In some guns there is no problem and in others the safety is hard to turn into safe with the bolt locked back.
FWIW for everyone's info, I had this exact same issue with a plated LWRC trigger - with the supplied LWRC parts kit, there was a slight amount of resistance when turning the selector to safe with the bolt locked back. It never really bothered me that much....but one day I was just playing around and swapped out the safety selector for a CMT one - and that cured the problem - so it was obviously a minor tolerance stacking issue, as I had suspected.
So if you have a spare selector kicking around (or want to try one from a different rifle) that might also be another way to find a cure.
Changed the pins out on the QMS trigger tonight and that did fix the issue. The safety does not rub against the rear of the trigger bar any longer.
Besides the pins being larger, does it make a difference what pins are being used?
CarlosDJackal
07-27-12, 09:57
Here's an update on my ACT trigger. As posted earlier my selector was difficult to move to the safe position while the bolt was locked to the rear. Amy sent me a new trigger no questions asked and I received it earlier today. I was glad to discover that the replacement trigger works perfect. With the bolt locked rearward the selector now works as it should. As an added bonus the trigger is improved over the prior one. It has a slightly lighter pull and absolutely zero 'grittiness' in the travel. The one that was replaced, even after 1300 or so dry and live fire pulls, still had a small amount of grit. Great service from Amy and the rest of the ALG/Geissele crew.
-Jax
Good for you. Mine still is a bear to get on safe with the bolt locked to the rear. Since I've only shot less than 200-rounds through it for now, I'm giving this trigger until I've run at least 500-rounds through it.
If that doesn't work I'm pulling it off and re-installing the factory. I'm pretty disappointed that they are still insisting that it's the lower receiver that's out of spec when three other LPKs from 3 different manufacturers (Daniel Defense, LWRCI, and another) don't have any such issues.
I currently cannot in good conscience recommend this trigger kit.
Good for you. Mine still is a bear to get on safe with the bolt locked to the rear. Since I've only shot less than 200-rounds through it for now, I'm giving this trigger until I've run at least 500-rounds through it.
If that doesn't work I'm pulling it off and re-installing the factory. I'm pretty disappointed that they are still insisting that it's the lower receiver that's out of spec when three other LPKs from 3 different manufacturers (Daniel Defense, LWRCI, and another) don't have any such issues.
I currently cannot in good conscience recommend this trigger kit.
Carlos,
Stupid question man but did you read sagmil's post (#209) about the fix? A few guys have swapped out the trigger pins and that seems to be the remedy. Hope this helps.
-Jax
Thomas M-4
08-01-12, 00:52
I installed the QMS version a couple of weeks ago so far I have been very satisfied very smooth pull and a good clean break. I wouldn't call it a precision trigger but it does seem to be a very good combat trigger considering the price I actually picked up a second one for a future sbr build so that I well have matching trigger pulls with my carbine. So far I would certainly recommend as long as you have the right application in mind.
CarlosDJackal
08-06-12, 14:10
Carlos,
Stupid question man but did you read sagmil's post (#209) about the fix? A few guys have swapped out the trigger pins and that seems to be the remedy. Hope this helps.
-Jax
Not stupid at all since I just now saw this. I might give it a try.
I did contact Amy at AGL Defense about trying another set. A buddy of mine just installed one a week ago and he had no issues.
As for the replacement set I got from them, I tried it in 3 different lowers with three different uppers and three different safety levers without success. Thanks!!
ADDED: Just after posting this response, I received a response from Bill Geissele himself informing me about the stock trigger fix. LOL.
Great video from Geissele Automatic's youtube channel in regards to the ALG trigger line. Great install video as well.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8_kSLaOmOA&feature=em-uploademail
Mr. Geissele makes a compelling argument for why men should where aprons as well:D I think I will have to try it in the future.
Just out of curiosity, did those standard sized plated pins ever get made?
Cowtown556
09-09-12, 10:18
I would like know about the new pins also, the standard pins did fix it.
First time out with the QMS trigger today and it really does have a nice clean and crisp break. My only issue, as others have mentioned, it that the safety feels like it is hanging up when the bolt is locked back to the rear.
I haven't tried standard pins yet but has that fixed everyone's issue?
I haven't tried standard pins yet but has that fixed everyone's issue?
Seems to be the consensus.
-Jax
Hey guys, I'll see about getting some info in regards to the standard pins, or any potential new pins for these triggers....and once I learn something new, I'll be sure to post it up.
I know the folks at GA, and by extension most likely ALG are especially slammed these days with their recent expansion, and then quite aggressively transitioning into a whole different market segment other than triggers, which is their new modular rail designs.
I received an email from John Butterworth letting me know that the new pins are ready and that they were being shipped to me on the 21st.
Like several of the people who posted both my brother an I experienced safety problems with the bolt locked to the rear after installing the ACT. Installing the original factory pins fixed the problem. An email to ALG prompted a quick response from Amy who acknowledged issues with ALG's pins on some rifles. She promised a new set of pins when ready and sure enough as noted above Robert sent an email letting me knows the new pins were on their way.
All problems have been rectified and all is good on the ALG/ACT triggers and the safety selector issues?
All problems have been rectified and all is good on the ALG/ACT triggers and the safety selector issues?
I'm working with ALG to get my issues resolved. Purchased the new trigger two weeks ago and installed in my factory SBR just last week and noticed the safety selector issue after going to the range for function test/training. I contacted ALG and spoke with a tech rep last week. ALG and I deceided to try the easy route first - new pins. So, I received 4 new pins from ALG just yesterday and, unfortnately, they have not resolved the issue.
I will say this, ALG has been bery responsive and they told me they would work with me to resolve the issue. I have no reason to doubt them. Next step will be a call on Monday to request an exchange trigger.
I had no idea this was an issue until I called ALG - then I stumbled on this thread. Makes me feel better I'm not the only one with the issue.:eek:
Obscenejesster
07-06-13, 16:35
I've installed three QMS triggers in the past few months. All of them work great. No issues with any of them.
I purchased an ACT prior to the QMS's and I'll be honest. I think the QMS feels better. There's no reason in wasting another $20 for a fancy coating.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
I have been curious about this. I have not contacted ALG, but what do you guys think:
I use a Battle Arms Ambi safety, and an ALG ACT trigger, on both of my AR's.
The one carbine's safety slides very easily and smooth and has a higher pitched click when taken off of SAFE.
Now, the other AR's safety is more difficult to use, and does not have the same click, but I can feel it go into place. It feels the same even with the bolt locked back- so I do not have that issue. Since I am left-handed I used the selector on the right side. The selector on the left is a lot more difficult to engage. It will work but have to put more pressure on it.
I have just thought this as normal since the safety works. But now I am thinking: should I contact ALG about this?
FWIW, I had an Ambi Colt safety on this lower with the ALG trigger and had the same "problem." The Colt safety, however, does not have a left side selector.
ScatmanCrothers
07-06-13, 18:02
I have been curious about this. I have not contacted ALG, but what do you guys think:
I use a Battle Arms Ambi safety, and an ALG ACT trigger, on both of my AR's.
The one carbine's safety slides very easily and smooth and has a higher pitched click when taken off of SAFE.
Now, the other AR's safety is more difficult to use, and does not have the same click, but I can feel it go into place. It feels the same even with the bolt locked back- so I do not have that issue. Since I am left-handed I used the selector on the right side. The selector on the left is a lot more difficult to engage. It will work but have to put more pressure on it.
I have just thought this as normal since the safety works. But now I am thinking: should I contact ALG about this?
FWIW, I had an Ambi Colt safety on this lower with the ALG trigger and had the same "problem." The Colt safety, however, does not have a left side selector.
Pretty common issue for the ACT. Coating on it adding a slightly larger diameter is the consensus for the cause. QMS doesn't seem to have this problem.
Pretty common issue for the ACT. Coating on it adding a slightly larger diameter is the consensus for the cause. QMS doesn't seem to have this problem.
That is what I figured. As long as it does not cause some kind of extra wear and damage, I will just live with it.
I think I will switch out the trigger that functions well with the safety, and put it on my HD rifle since that is the one with the "problem safety/ trigger."
Well, yesterday I ordered from Brownell's 1 ALG ACT trigger. It is going in a Spike's lower factory built by Spike's.
All original except for the trigger I am waiting on. Maybe I should have bought the SSA like I started out to do!:suicide2:
We live but sometimes we never learn and or over think the possibilities!:lol:
Obscenejesster
07-07-13, 21:42
Well, yesterday I ordered from Brownell's 1 ALG ACT trigger. It is going in a Spike's lower factory built by Spike's.
All original except for the trigger I am waiting on. Maybe I should have bought the SSA like I started out to do!:suicide2:
We live but sometimes we never learn and or over think the possibilities!:lol:
Or you could have just gotten the QMS. Seriously though. One can't really compare an ACT to an SSA for obvious reasons. That being said. I own ACT's and QMS's. I will never buy an ACT again when I can save $20 for the same trigger minus the fancy coating and problems it brings. Seriously, I actually think the QMS has a smoother pull than the ACT.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Received and installed the new ALG/ACT FCG. Pins slip fit easier than the first ACT I installed in another AR now gone. No binding and slick as a whistle after using Tetra Gun Grease,
Also received the H-1 and Seekins mount. All installed and looking real good.:D
Or you could have just gotten the QMS. Seriously though. One can't really compare an ACT to an SSA for obvious reasons. That being said. I own ACT's and QMS's. I will never buy an ACT again when I can save $20 for the same trigger minus the fancy coating and problems it brings. Seriously, I actually think the QMS has a smoother pull than the ACT.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 4 BetaWas experience with my QMS, and buddy's ACT. It almost seemed like a bit of grit was in last bit travel before trigger break.
I purchased an ACT prior to the QMS's and I'll be honest. I think the QMS feels better. There's no reason in wasting another $20 for a fancy coating.
I agree. I bought two ACTs and two QMSs awhile back. I prefer both of the QMSs and only buy those for my utility/friend builds now. The ACTs seem mushier and I don't know if it's my imagination but they seem to have more take up.
Obscenejesster
07-11-13, 21:25
I agree. I bought two ACTs and two QMSs when they came out. I prefer both of the QMSs and only buy those for my utility/friend builds now. The ACTs seem mushier and I don't know if it's my imagination but they seem to have more take up.
They do have noticeably more take up. The take up on the QMS is pleasantly short.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
I am very pleased with my buy, but will try the QMS in the wife's PSA. The PSA LPK in the Spike's lower is very smooth, clean and very little take-up. I sold a Spike's NiB Combat FCG because her PSA trigger was nicer. It's a guy thing!:lol:
I'm considering an ACT or QMS to replace my SSA (so I can put that one back in my highpower rifle)
Has the ACT locked-back-bolt safety engagement situation been fully resolved?
Is the consensus any greater today that the QMS may actually be smoother and have less take up?
Just installed a QMS in the wife's AR and couldn't be happier. Ultra smooth and no issues with the safety when the bolt is locked back.
johnnyrebel87
08-29-13, 09:32
Love mine!
BoringGuy45
08-29-13, 15:52
I love the ALGs: Smooth as butter and pretty inexpensive.
Unfortunately, I made the mistake of buying the Geissele SSA and now I can't go back anything else :D
crosseyedshooter
09-26-13, 19:55
I had the safety selector issue with the BCG locked back on my Stag Arms lower but my BCM lower didn't. It looks to me like the bolt carrier in the rearward position will push down slightly on the cocked hammer. The hammer in turn, presses on the trigger and rocks the rear of the trigger up. The rear of the trigger is the part that engages the safety selector by design.
The trigger with a problem in the Stag receiver had pins that measured 0.1540" diameter according to my Mitutoyo digital calipers. ALG sent me four replacement pins that all measured, yup, 0.1540". As expected, there was no change when swapping pins. They then sent me two replacement trigger groups. I measured the height of the trigger bar where it interfaces the safety and the new triggers measured 0.3270" and 0.3295" tall. Compared with my problematic trigger which measured 0.3285". I chose the smaller 0.3270" to install. It provided just enough clearance that my safety selector can function, albeit with some resistance, when the BCG is locked back. The newer triggers have noticeably thinner plating and the surface is not as smooth in appearance.
Once again, ALG comes through with excellent customer service, but I would suggest anyone who encounters this problem to make take these basic measurements of pin diameter and trigger bar height as a comparison. In my case, thinner plating and trigger height difference of 0.0015" was just enough to allow the safety selector to function with the BCG locked back.
Also, triggers on ARs with this issue will have no play when the selector is on safe. Normally, I think the trigger should have slight rearward play before it hits the safety bar on safe.
Installed an ACT on a new build today; Aero Precision lower. Trigger is smooth, crisp with no mushiness. No safety problems, all functions as it should.
Pleased with the feel and the price.
thebarracuda
09-26-13, 20:52
I installed an Act about four months ago in my Spike's lower. I'm running a BCM bcg, and a BCM upper, and have had no issues with the safety. 700 rds since the install and I am quite happy with it. Very smooth, esp with a little grease. Does have a little take up, but a very nice pull and a clean break. Huge improvement over the standard mil spec that originally came with the lower. Don't be afraid of this trigger. Its backed up by a top notch company.
Wouldn't this indicate that the Stag lower is out of spec?
I had the safety selector issue with the BCG locked back on my Stag Arms lower but my BCM lower didn't. It looks to me like the bolt carrier in the rearward position will push down slightly on the cocked hammer. The hammer in turn, presses on the trigger and rocks the rear of the trigger up. The rear of the trigger is the part that engages the safety selector by design.
The trigger with a problem in the Stag receiver had pins that measured 0.1540" diameter according to my Mitutoyo digital calipers. ALG sent me four replacement pins that all measured, yup, 0.1540". As expected, there was no change when swapping pins. They then sent me two replacement trigger groups. I measured the height of the trigger bar where it interfaces the safety and the new triggers measured 0.3270" and 0.3295" tall. Compared with my problematic trigger which measured 0.3285". I chose the smaller 0.3270" to install. It provided just enough clearance that my safety selector can function, albeit with some resistance, when the BCG is locked back. The newer triggers have noticeably thinner plating and the surface is not as smooth in appearance.
Once again, ALG comes through with excellent customer service, but I would suggest anyone who encounters this problem to make take these basic measurements of pin diameter and trigger bar height as a comparison. In my case, thinner plating and trigger height difference of 0.0015" was just enough to allow the safety selector to function with the BCG locked back.
Also, triggers on ARs with this issue will have no play when the selector is on safe. Normally, I think the trigger should have slight rearward play before it hits the safety bar on safe.
I run 2 guns with ACT trigger groups and love them both, but... I do use a trigger takeup adjustment screw on my builds to allow me to fine tune the amount of takeup down to a minimum. I have taken a mil-spec trigger group and reworked it to become a precision trigger group with the takeup adjuster and a handful of hours of polishing and honing, but the ACT trigger group gave all that smoothness right out of the box.
Another one will be going in my LR308 precision rifle build soon.. ;)
All my AR's have them now. I've had TTU's, the more expensive Geissele's, and stock parts kit triggers to compare. I just like the great value, medium weight pull, and tried and true design of them.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.