"Soldier" I served with in Germany killed one cop, wounded 5 others. [Archive]

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SW-Shooter

01-19-12, 19:44

I just found out via friends that a "Soldier" I served with in Germany and personally knew is a cop killer. He was a mean, sloppy drunkard, and couldn't be trusted in any situation. I hope he feels pain every second of his dwindling life. Every Soldier/Veteran is not honorable, nor do they deserve to be shown in a positive light when they do something like this. It demeans the U.S. Army and the Airborne Corps to show this scum in uniform.

http://www.thedailychronic.net/2012/7938/da-will-seek-death-penalty-in-utah-police-shooting-confirms-warrant-was-for-suspected-marijuana-grow-bomb-detonation-was-precautionary/

SW-Shooter

01-21-12, 19:34

No responses? I guess this post isn't relevant or just too late to the show.

The murderer was a Commo jock(we held completely different MOS's), that I had spent time training at an old MOUT site in Germany. I won't say we did anything special, he was taught how to maneuver through confined spaces and definitely knew what a fatal funnel was. I'm having a hard time dealing with the fact that I knew him and as an NCO spent a few times "training" him during my time in Europe.

He used to be one of the quiet troops that got drunk and would become mean at times but yet social at others. I can say that during the time I knew him there was not one incident that could be used as a defense, as his father states he suffered from PTSD, which is utter bullshit.

I used to think our Police is becoming too Militarized, because of this incident I think differently now.

BTW, his former .mil buddies are butthurt over this, saying he's innocent until proven guilty. I left the group because I was the one dissenting voice and called him a scumbag cop killer. I've decided to contact the D.A. and see if they need anyone with prior knowledge to dispute the PTSD claim.

Belmont31R

01-21-12, 19:47

Well ones post military activities usually don't have a lot to do with their time. Lots of ****ed up people slip through, and can even manage to get out with an Honorable. Doesn't mean they weren't shitty people before and shitty people afterwards.

FWIW I was commo, in a unit where everyone had clearances, and we had people with prior convictions for drugs. We had problem people who were defiant, rude, and just general shitbags. One real bad one who was about 5'6 tried to fight a NCO who was a giant and they basically had to take him back to post and put him in the day room under guard until the MP's could get there and even then it took months to get him out. He said he was going to go join the Marines because the Army was a bunch of pussies. Yeah good luck dude..:confused:

SW-Shooter

01-21-12, 20:03

I guess I just needed to come to a place where I wouldn't be judged, criticized, or looked upon as a snitch.

Sometimes you just have to vent your frustration at a place where you can speak how you really feel without having to answer to people that view the world with a complete lack of reality. People here know exactly what end is up, without having to be shown a diagram.

ICANHITHIMMAN

01-21-12, 20:04

Belmont31R

01-21-12, 20:18

Yeah the mil is no different than society. I mean a person can enlist, go through MEPs, go through basic/OSUT/AIT and be on the front lines within 5 months. I joined, went to basic in 06/03, and was in Baghdad in 01/04. :D

Im sure anyone who lived in the barracks can recount crazy stories. We even had a S&M 'ring' that got busted because they were performing spanking and bondage type shit in the hallways and filming it. WTF. Being commo we were mixed males and females so the batshit insane stuff was off the charts. Even had a dude try to sneak a 16YO german female over the fences. At the time we had Bundeswehr guards who responded like we were being breached...lmao

a0cake

01-21-12, 20:30

If these dudes have to hurt somebody, I wish they would just kill themselves instead of killing their families, cops, and other innocent people and giving the rest of us who can keep our shit together a bad name. The latest data shows military suicides declining, but violent crimes against others increasing.

The majority of these degenerates should have never made it to the tarmac to get on the flight to the Middle East anyway. After a while you learn to smell these types a mile away. You just know they're going to **** up majorly over the course of the deployment or when they get back. I've personally chaptered about 15 soldiers out of the Army because we saw shit like this coming. No, you shouldn't back away from every leadership challenge, but it's prudent to pick your battles. Shit-canning these dirtbags before JRTC (at the latest) is the best course of action. Yeah, it's a pain in the ass to do the chapter paperwork, but more leaders need to take advantage of the option.

Armati

01-21-12, 21:17

Well, on the bright side, another deadly marijuana operation was shut down. Without a doubt the LEOs died for a truly noble cause.

SW-Shooter

01-21-12, 21:31

Well, on the bright side, another deadly marijuana operation was shut down. Without a doubt the LEOs died for a truly noble cause.

I take it you do not have children. I am sorry, but I disagree with the weed is harmless sentiment. It is a gateway drug, I could care less who disagrees with that statement. As someone that tried it, I can honestly say it led a powdery substance. But when you are youthful and arrogant, you do things you regret later in life.

Besides there is a difference between user and dealer, and cop killer.

Armati

01-21-12, 21:56

Actually, I have two kids, one is in his teens. I also grew up, downtown, in one of the more dangerous cities on the east coast. I was in my teens during the 80's and have quite a vivid memory of crack epidemic. And you Sir?

I can assure you I have seen the worst side of drugs. I know quite a few people are are seriously addicted to marijuana. MJ is not medicine and it is not mother's milk, however, I don't see any reason people should die over it.

The War on Drugs has been flatly stupid. We will have no more success now than we did during Prohibition.

SW-Shooter

01-21-12, 22:03

I'm in my 40's and grew up in some bad places myself, I had to avoid gangs and other perils. I just don't want to see it legalized because then people think it is okay to use, then they will think it is okay to substitute it in lieu of alcohol.

I think of the future world my children will live in and I can only keep them from its temptations through talking and education, but when everyone is doing it legally how does it look to them? Legalization = moralization, and that is unacceptable.

I wasn't casting stones at you, just trying to show my point.

Just one look at the 420 culture in California should be enough proof that legalization is a mistake, and it will be abused anywhere it is allowed. This is a story about a cop killer, and the leniency on drug dealers contributes to cops being killed. If you deal it should be a life sentence, and bring back hard labor.

ALCOAR

01-21-12, 22:56

If you deal it should be a life sentence, and bring back hard labor.

Completely agree, lets certainly fill all our prisons with pot dealers and let the harmless rapists, pedophiles, and murderers continue to be productive members of our society:)

Prohibition worked so well back in the day that it's understandable why we continue this practice with marijuana.

DeltaSierra

01-21-12, 23:04

Completely agree, lets certainly fill all our prisons with pot dealers and let the harmless rapists, pedophiles, and murderers continue to be productive members of our society:)

Prohibition worked so well back in the day that it's understandable why we continue this practice with marijuana.

Yeah, why try to reduce the drug related violence when you can keep it nice and bloody, with gangs fighting over transportation corridors and supplies...

It is more profitable for everyone involved if marijuana stays illegal...

Honu

01-22-12, 00:07

Belmont31R

01-22-12, 00:49

If it were my world rapists and pedophiles would not be in prison they would be a small pile of ash so there would be room for the dealers :)

When I was in the FD and a medic pretty much every accident I went to was from some substance that effected the driver often many were under age also

Breaking the law often has consequences on others

I despise rapists, murderers, and pedophiles as much as anyone but our justice system today is hardly just. Look at the innocence project and how many people they have freed. Our system is not perfect and there are plenty of innocent people in jail with almost zero consequences to shady prosecutors, detectives, and judges.

I am for immediate justice but not with our current corrupt system where justice depends on how much money you have and who you know.

Nightvisionary

01-22-12, 03:21

More victims of a pointless and failed war on drugs.:(

Voodoo_Man

01-22-12, 03:38

Rip LEO and hope that those officers quickly recover from this horrible situation.

While my opinion on the "war on drugs" differs because of my profession, it is slightly annoying to hear typical arf-speak on this topic. I will not get into it because I do not want to burn this thread.

Suwannee Tim

01-22-12, 07:25

......The War on Drugs has been flatly stupid. We will have no more success now than we did during Prohibition.

Part of the problem is we have no consistent strategy. Republican administrations crack down, Democrat administrations lighten up. The GWOT draws away resources. The vested interests use it for a gravy train. Both Dems and Republicans want borders open to illegal immigrants but not drugs.

Suwannee Tim

01-22-12, 07:42

“Hey, figure it out. If 12 [armed] people come through your door, what are you going to do?” he asked.

Surrender.

120mm

01-22-12, 08:14

Part of the casualty of GWOT is our military. We let a lot of complete scum into military service in the guise of meeting recruiting quotas.

BTW, someone mentioned the Innocence Project? More like "the Gullibility Project.

Lots of folks who got sent up that were proved "innocent" due to bad DNA evidence were no such thing. Usually Rudy and Bocephus were both up for the crime and Rudy was "it" due to Bocephus ratting him out. And once the good folks from the Gullibility Project came along and proved that one piece of evidence was corrupt, Rudy, who was a full partner to Bocephus in the act then gets to go free and back to his chosen life of crime.

Armati

01-22-12, 10:06

Both Dems and Republicans want borders open to illegal immigrants but not drugs.

?

What exactly does this have to do with domestic growers and drug labs?

In the 420 world, Mexican Ditch Weed is the lowest form of MJ. Any serious user wants the genetically engineered hydro.

Armati

01-22-12, 10:12

Part of the casualty of GWOT is our military. We let a lot of complete scum into military service in the guise of meeting recruiting quotas.

Well I didn't exactly see the Bush daughters signing up to do their patriotic duty when the war started. In fact, the wealthier you are, and better educated you are, the less likely you are to join the Army.

Here, read this:

http://www.frankschaeffer.net/awol.html

Dano5326

01-22-12, 13:04

SW-Shooter

01-22-12, 14:14

Who knows the totality of circumstance in this instance?

Certainly not us from afar.

I have no idea if this was a no knock or not.. but the tactic is becoming too prevalent in American LE. The www.wiseguys who think they would counter a home invasion by criminal thieves/rapist/murderers then applaud LE for whacking a citizen in his own house in confusing circumstance in the middle of the night. If you woke up in the middle of the night and a bunch of guys are breaking in your door & incoherently yelling.. there is 1-3 seconds you have before the decision is made for you... to guess if your gonna watch your wife get raped or maybe it's LE (or the usual gang MO of impersonation of LE)

I had a Teammate who's house was no-knock raided and fortunately for the officers, his family, and allcon.. he recognized a police car out the window as he checked the backside. He pitched his firearm and turned on a room light as the train shuffled in... Got bounced around, cuffed and detained for a bit. Warrant was on wrong address sourced from some douche CI. If if wasn't for his extraordinary awareness, and a calmness in the face of confusing circumstance. bred by yrs at war.. there could of been a pile of dead officers.

The thresh-hold for these types raids has been artificially lowered. Is it really necessary for non time critical tgts?

No knock night raids breeds confusion on the part of the target, the officers, and greatly exacerbates the likely hood of a shooting. This shooting may be justified on the part of whatever ROE the individual officer is working under. Doesn't mean it's the moral thing to do to by creating the confusing circumstance and getting citizens dead. Better to get a guy in the light of day walking to his car, job, gf.. whatever.

A vid: http://www.thedailychronic.net/2012/7958/video-same-ogden-ut-police-force-killed-man-armed-only-with-golf-club-in-2010-raid/

aprox 5seconds from incoherent yelling to breach and shoot. Probably not a nice way to wake up.. defacto death sentence for waking up confused with a golf club.

A little research on this shooting will net you huge insight into what occurred. He actually boasted that if " The police tried to stop his grow operation, he would go down in a blaze of gunfire", this was premeditated murder. Also shooting them as they retreated is not something an honorable citizen does. This will give you th insight you need http://www.standard.net/site-includes/pdf/011312StewartPressRelease.pdf.

On another issue: Some of you would actually assume by my comments that I would actually want to be light on punishment for rapists, pedophiles, gang members, etc.... Where did you pull that out of my words? The ARFCOM mentality on drugs is strong here and that is disturbing in itself. M4Carbine is supposed to be the site of quiet professionals, and experts in the field, as well as citizens that are like minded. Drugs are not okay, comparing them to alcohol and Prohibition is deplorable. Alcohol does kill more people on our roads, streets, and highways. Anyone with a brain knows that. But pot is not as innocent as many of you would believe, in fact is most often the first drug kids tend to use(other than alcohol). That alone warrants it's continued illegality.

We can go on and on about weed. But this is not the topic that should be discussed here. This is about a pot growing, drug dealing murderer. His friends supported his actions with the same arguments some of you use. Considering this outlook that a few of you display concerns me about your character, and that should give you pause as well as it should other members. Is this the message of gun owners? The war on drugs has failed, but it has failed because of the upper echelon leadership not because of the boots on the ground. 6 Law Enforcement officers/agents were shot like dogs as they tried to retreat. One husband and father gave his life to make the community safe from the temptation of drug use that often many children succumb to. This isn't the time we grew up in, today children are more likely to try drugs than when you grew up.

glocktogo

01-22-12, 14:51

A little research on this shooting will net you huge insight into what occurred. He actually boasted that if " The police tried to stop his grow operation, he would go down in a blaze of gunfire", this was premeditated murder. Also shooting them as they retreated is not something an honorable citizen does. This will give you the insight you need http://www.standard.net/site-includes/pdf/011312StewartPressRelease.pdf.

On another issue: Some of you would actually assume by my comments that I would actually want to be light on punishment for rapists, pedophiles, gang members, etc.... Where did you pull that out of my words? The ARFCOM mentality on drugs is strong here and that is disturbing in itself. M4Carbine is supposed to be the site of quiet professionals, and experts in the field, as well as citizens that are like minded. Drugs are not okay, comparing them to alcohol and Prohibition is deplorable. Alcohol does kill more people on our roads, streets, and highways. Anyone with a brain knows that. But pot is not as innocent as many of you would believe, in fact is most often the first drug kids tend to use(other than alcohol). That alone warrants it's continued illegality.

We can go on and on about weed. But this is not the topic that should be discussed here. This is about a pot growing, drug dealing murderer. His friends supported his actions with the same arguments some of you use. Considering this outlook that a few of you display concerns me about your character, and that should give you pause as well as it should other members. Is this the message of gun owners? The war on drugs has failed, but it has failed because of the upper echelon leadership not because of the boots on the ground. 6 Law Enforcement officers/agents were shot like dogs as they tried to retreat. One husband and father gave his life to make the community safe from the temptation of drug use that often many children succumb to. This isn't the time we grew up in, today children are more likely to try drugs than when you grew up.

I commend you on your stance against a guy like this. I think it's a decent thing you're doing to contact the prosecutors, particularly if you spent significant time around him. I agree with your stance that illicit drugs should be illegal, I'm just not sure how what the cost/benefit ratio is in a lot of the things we're doing.

I guess my point would be directed at the decision makers and trigger pullers. Given the results of this raid, would they in hindsight reconsider? Would it have been better to wait until he left the house and do a felony stop rather than a no-knock raid? My concern isn't over the shitbag or his rights, but the safety of the officers and effective policy decisions that take this into account. :(

Armati

01-22-12, 15:50

The ARFCOM mentality on drugs is strong here and that is disturbing in itself. M4Carbine is supposed to be the site of quiet professionals, and experts in the field, as well as citizens that are like minded. Drugs are not okay, comparing them to alcohol and Prohibition is deplorable. Alcohol does kill more people on our roads, streets, and highways.

In general, among serious gun owners you will find Christian Conservatives and Libertarians. In general, we agree on little except guns and low taxes.

The fact of the matter is that drugs are routinely used 'responsibly' by consenting adults. Some people use them as a stage in college and some will continue to use them throughout their adult life. By the same token, drugs are frequently abused and ruin people's lives. The same could be said for guns. If you look into the dynamics of street violence, most of it is fueled by alcohol.

Prohibition was a complete disaster primarily because it lacked popular support among 'the people themselves'. We have yet to 'win' the war on drugs for the same reason. People want to use drugs. The real question could be why is drug use so popular? It could also be asked why are people so fat? Why is their so much vapid consumerism? And why does the nation seem to be obsessed by porn? Why is there so much divorce? The answer could be that a huge segment (or perhaps the vast majority) of the country has a 'hole' in their psyche that they are trying to 'fill'. Laws and law enforcement will not fix this problem. We are treating the symptoms, not the root cause.

Under the current circumstances, I don't see any of these social ills being fixed any time soon. In fact, I think it will get much worse before it gets any better. So, in the meantime we will have a large number of veterans returning home to a country that is ill prepared to deal with them. There has be a significant number of these 'blue' on 'green' episodes lately. I am sure we will see quite a few more.

SW-Shooter

01-22-12, 16:35

In general, among serious gun owners you will find Christian Conservatives and Libertarians. In general, we agree on little except guns and low taxes.

The fact of the matter is that drugs are routinely used 'responsibly' by consenting adults. Some people use them as a stage in college and some will continue to use them throughout their adult life. By the same token, drugs are frequently abused and ruin people's lives. The same could be said for guns. If you look into the dynamics of street violence, most of it is fueled by alcohol.

Prohibition was a complete disaster primarily because it lacked popular support among 'the people themselves'. We have yet to 'win' the war on drugs for the same reason. People want to use drugs. The real question could be why is drug use so popular? It could also be asked why are people so fat? Why is their so much vapid consumerism? And why does the nation seem to be obsessed by porn? Why is there so much divorce? The answer could be that a huge segment (or perhaps the vast majority) of the country has a 'hole' in their psyche that they are trying to 'fill'. Laws and law enforcement will not fix this problem. We are treating the symptoms, not the root cause.

Under the current circumstances, I don't see any of these social ills being fixed any time soon. In fact, I think it will get much worse before it gets any better. So, in the meantime we will have a large number of veterans returning home to a country that is ill prepared to deal with them. There has be a significant number of these 'blue' on 'green' episodes lately. I am sure we will see quite a few more.

Your point is valid and we do agree mostly on some things. The problem with this country is the lack of morals, it has become epidemic in the human culture. The internet has contributed significantly not only in the advancement of our species but its decline as well. When we allow websites like Ashley Madison, Adult friend finder, gay lover connect (not a real website, but I don't know nor care of their actual names), it is an indication of how low we have allowed our behavior to degenerate. I love progress, but it also has a cost. We see this cost daily when we watch the news, visit web forums, and talk to friends and families. We all know someone that has been affected my the decline of societies morals and values.

ETA: I was watching late night TV last night and amidst the advertisements for local adult chat phone numbers, one for gay connection appears. It wasn't the first time I've seen them but it disgusted me so much I stopped watching the movie and changed the channel. I'm not homophobic, it's just not in my Christian values to accept that behavior. Off my pulpit now.

Nightvisionary

01-22-12, 18:42

A little research on this shooting will net you huge insight into what occurred. He actually boasted that if " The police tried to stop his grow operation, he would go down in a blaze of gunfire", this was premeditated murder. Also shooting them as they retreated is not something an honorable citizen does. This will give you th insight you need http://www.standard.net/site-includes/pdf/011312StewartPressRelease.pdf.

On another issue: Some of you would actually assume by my comments that I would actually want to be light on punishment for rapists, pedophiles, gang members, etc.... Where did you pull that out of my words? The ARFCOM mentality on drugs is strong here and that is disturbing in itself. M4Carbine is supposed to be the site of quiet professionals, and experts in the field, as well as citizens that are like minded. Drugs are not okay, comparing them to alcohol and Prohibition is deplorable. Alcohol does kill more people on our roads, streets, and highways. Anyone with a brain knows that. But pot is not as innocent as many of you would believe, in fact is most often the first drug kids tend to use(other than alcohol). That alone warrants it's continued illegality.

We can go on and on about weed. But this is not the topic that should be discussed here. This is about a pot growing, drug dealing murderer. His friends supported his actions with the same arguments some of you use. Considering this outlook that a few of you display concerns me about your character, and that should give you pause as well as it should other members. Is this the message of gun owners? The war on drugs has failed, but it has failed because of the upper echelon leadership not because of the boots on the ground. 6 Law Enforcement officers/agents were shot like dogs as they tried to retreat. One husband and father gave his life to make the community safe from the temptation of drug use that often many children succumb to. This isn't the time we grew up in, today children are more likely to try drugs than when you grew up.

There is no Arfcom mentality. They are like a heard of cats. Everyone has their own opinion there and here. If you are suggesting we should be in lockstep with your own opinion than that is just wrong.

The war on drugs has done more to affect our freedoms and liberty than any foreign terrorist ever could. Putting police officers and citizens lives at risk to enforce drug laws is just bad public policy and the last 50 years prove it.

The overwhelming majority of Americans believe marijuana should be decriminalized. I have never used any drugs and I used to have an opinion similar to yours. You are on the wrong side of the issue here.

I know it's not realistic but if anything society would be better served by outlawing alcohol and legalizing the other drugs.

Alcohol has an overwhelming causitive relationship to crime rates but is the drug of choice for many people including most police officers. So even though the negative societal effects of drugs other than alcohol pale in comparison to the alcohol drug it's okay because it's your drug. Do you see any contradictions there?

Irish

01-22-12, 18:54

A little research on this shooting will net you huge insight into what occurred. He actually boasted that if " The police tried to stop his grow operation, he would go down in a blaze of gunfire", this was premeditated murder. Also shooting them as they retreated is not something an honorable citizen does. This will give you th insight you need http://www.standard.net/site-includes/pdf/011312StewartPressRelease.pdf.

The initial news article you posted stated that the police were unsure if some of the officers were hit by friendly fire. If you believe what's written in that press release you're incredibly naive. Everything may have happened the way they described it but chances are highly unlikely for a lot of different reasons and some of them may not even be intentional due to memory and perception.

If you'd like I'd be glad to post a myriad of examples illustrating police lying in AAR's, innocent Americans being killed due to no knock raids on wrong houses and the officers who skate after the incidents. Just last week Las Vegas Metro PD paid out $1.7 million dollars to the family of an unarmed man who was shot in the face with an AR-15 during a no knock raid. The cop who shot and killed the man lied in his report, this was proven due to physical evidence at the scene, and the same piece of shit who's smoked 3 people all under controversial circumstances is still on the force. http://www.lvrj.com/news/trevon-cole-family-set-to-receive-1-7-million-settlement-from-police-137586448.html

The thread is about a guy who shot and killed a police officer. I do indeed feel for the man's family but it was his chosen profession and he knew the risks going through that front door. Like it or not he chose to endanger himself over a few plants. I don't mean to sound callous but what do you expect "drug dealing scumbags" to do when you're breaking in the door? For all we know he might've thought it was the competition coming to pay him a visit, if he was in fact growing to deal.

We have over 50,000 SWAT raids a year in the U.S. and most of those are due to the WOD. Unfortunately the officer lost his life due to the war on drugs and if you can't see that there's no hope in discussing it further. What a person does in the privacy of their own home, as long as they're not hurting anyone else, should be their own business.

Personally I think it's much bigger news and far more worthy of a discussion that a cop, also a DARE officer, who pled guilty to over 140 counts of rape, sodomy and sexual abuse of a 14 year old only gets 3 years due to a plea deal. http://www.kentucky.com/2012/01/20/2036197/ex-harrodsburg-officer-pleads.html

A former Harrodsburg police officer pleaded guilty Friday to more than 140 counts of rape, sodomy and sexual abuse.Jason Elder, 31, pleaded guilty to two counts of third-degree rape, 49 counts of third-degree sodomy and 97 counts of first-degree sexual abuse. All of the charges involved one girl, who was 14 at the time.
"Are you pleading guilty because you are truly guilty and for no other reason?" Special Judge Rob Johnson asked.
"Yes, sir," Elder said.
Under a plea agreement, Elder will serve three years in prison. He must enroll and complete a sex-offender treatment program, and he must serve at least 85 percent of his sentence before he is eligible for parole. When he is released, he will have to register as a sex offender.

120mm

01-22-12, 21:39

Well I didn't exactly see the Bush daughters signing up to do their patriotic duty when the war started. In fact, the wealthier you are, and better educated you are, the less likely you are to join the Army.

Here, read this:

http://www.frankschaeffer.net/awol.html

I can't get there through the filter, sorry.

I also do not get your point. Are you implying that only the poor and stupid serve in the military/GWOT? If so, I think you are both right and wrong. There are two groups (in general terms) that I've met in the military, and they are generally divided among those who serve out of a sense of duty/moral motivation/adventure, and those who serve because they are stupid and lazy.

Those two general groups appear to span both poor and wealthy and both highly educated and uneducated.

You are also discounting the rather sizable amount of non-military folks who volunteer to deploy and serve in the GWOT. And they are uniformly well-educated/well-off.

The truly criminal that I've encountered (which is, actually, the point of the thread, last time I checked) were criminal long before they joined the military. 2nd SCR, for instance, when they hit Grafenwoehr, was gang banger central, and they instantly went into rape, murder and steal mode once they arrived.

SW-Shooter

01-22-12, 21:47

The initial news article you posted stated that the police were unsure if some of the officers were hit by friendly fire. If you believe what's written in that press release you're incredibly naive. Everything may have happened the way they described it but chances are highly unlikely for a lot of different reasons and some of them may not even be intentional due to memory and perception.

If you'd like I'd be glad to post a myriad of examples illustrating police lying in AAR's, innocent Americans being killed due to no knock raids on wrong houses and the officers who skate after the incidents. Just last week Las Vegas Metro PD paid out $1.7 million dollars to the family of an unarmed man who was shot in the face with an AR-15 during a no knock raid. The cop who shot and killed the man lied in his report, this was proven due to physical evidence at the scene, and the same piece of shit who's smoked 3 people all under controversial circumstances is still on the force. http://www.lvrj.com/news/trevon-cole-family-set-to-receive-1-7-million-settlement-from-police-137586448.html

The thread is about a guy who shot and killed a police officer. I do indeed feel for the man's family but it was his chosen profession and he knew the risks going through that front door. Like it or not he chose to endanger himself over a few plants. I don't mean to sound callous but what do you expect "drug dealing scumbags" to do when you're breaking in the door? For all we know he might've thought it was the competition coming to pay him a visit, if he was in fact growing to deal.

We have over 50,000 SWAT raids a year in the U.S. and most of those are due to the WOD. Unfortunately the officer lost his life due to the war on drugs and if you can't see that there's no hope in discussing it further. What a person does in the privacy of their own home, as long as they're not hurting anyone else, should be their own business.

Personally I think it's much bigger news and far more worthy of a discussion that a cop, also a DARE officer, who pled guilty to over 140 counts of rape, sodomy and sexual abuse of a 14 year old only gets 3 years due to a plea deal. http://www.kentucky.com/2012/01/20/2036197/ex-harrodsburg-officer-pleads.html

You're right my link does not contribute to identify the heinous act that occurred that night. This might help a little. Also other newer reports state that the assailant was shooting at officers trying to drag their wounded out of the line of fire. I wanted to use a source from a site that supports the 420 culture, I wanted the comments there to be shared. http://www.standard.net/site-includes/pdf/011312StewartPressRelease.pdf

And you are also right that the DARE officer story shows another side of Law Enforcement, but that is the exception not the rule. I believe most L.E. are honorable in their intentions to provide the community with distinguished service.

SHIVAN

01-22-12, 21:47

Ambush thread is pretty obvious. Short initial post, with obvious tension and innuendo, followed by progressively longer and more accusatory posts. Lashing out at any perceived disagreement.

Seems more like other sites' users than this site.

Maybe we can try this thread again...maybe not.