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View Full Version : Trends/new-hotness for 2012?



rob_s
01-20-12, 07:06
Perusing the various blogs and posts, it appears that there are a couple of trends from this year's show, but oddly not really being recognized as such yet. I'm seeing quite a few new Brazilian rails (you know, slick), looks like there's a few new cans, and everyone and their mother is putting something out in 300 (but not sure if that's real or just perception due to the 300 marketing machine).

Anyone there seeing any trends popping up across various manufacturers.

vicious_cb
01-20-12, 07:18
Anyone there seeing any trends popping up across various manufacturers.

Yeah, ****ing zombies. I can't believe that even a company like eotech would jump on zombie bandwagon.

That and featherweight plate carriers.

goteron
01-20-12, 07:19
There wasn't as much 300BLK as I thought there would be.

Minimalist plate carriers was one trend I saw. I don't understand it, but it was there.

I held a ton of new slick rails. MI actually has a pretty nice one as well as noveske. I still think the MFR is the best deal going.

A lot of bolt gun chassis systems.

Red dot milling services was big. ZEV has their act together, their silicon carbide grip is incredible, as well as the trigger and milling services.

High range variable optics, I handled all of them, and actually wasn't overly impressed with any of them.

Some more .308 gas guns.

The piston revolution is still strong. I glad I hopped off that train when I did.

Quite a few new AK improvements if your into that.

Oh yeah, and zombie everything.

rob_s
01-20-12, 07:28
I was expressly ignoring the Zombie thing. Corporate involvement in this is an indicator of shark-jumping like when you're a kid and suddenly your mom likes the same band as you. :p

GlockWRX
01-20-12, 07:40
There is a lot of action in the 7.62 NATO segment as well. Established players like LaRue and LMT offering variations of their product line, KAC completely revamping their entire line, Colt (maybe, finally, for real) releasing the 901, Armalite offering a Pmag compatible lower, and some other people moving into that segment.

If you want a .30 cal AR, either in .300 BLK or 7.62 NATO, 2012 is your year.

Grease Monkey
01-20-12, 07:45
I was expressly ignoring the Zombie thing. Corporate involvement in this is an indicator of shark-jumping like when you're a kid and suddenly your mom likes the same band as you. :p

Sadly my mom never got into Metallica.....

Ironman8
01-20-12, 08:20
That and featherweight plate carriers.

I'm not sure I understand this trend at all...why would a plate carrier be marketed for its "reduced weight"??? I can understand if they were saying that its primary goal was to be lower profile or better air flow for breathability, but once you add armor, pouches, mags, and all the other sh*t people put on PC's, how the hell will you tell the difference in 8oz worth of less material??

Treehopr
01-20-12, 08:46
I'm not sure I understand this trend at all...why would a plate carrier be marketed for its "reduced weight"??? I can understand if they were saying that its primary goal was to be lower profile or better air flow for breathability, but once you add armor, pouches, mags, and all the other sh*t people put on PC's, how the hell will you tell the difference in 8oz worth of less material??

Because manufacturers make more money on big mil contracts than they do on individual purchases.

And "military" is almost synonymous with SOCOM since they're the only folks who actually have money to spend. Also, what SOCOM uses eventually filters down to the rest of the military.

Ounces add up to pounds, whether you're patrolling at 10,000 ft in Afghanistan or working with aircraft (that may also have to operate at high altitude thereby reducing performance)

Nylon is much easier to reduce weight compared to trying to cut weight from things like batteries or anything made of metal.

I spoke to a guy who wanted to change his unit's procurement process so that everything would have a weight listed so that you can do an immediate comparison with all items in a particular category. For example; HK M4 mag vs Magpul PMAG- but this would filter down to any and everything an end user might be using to include the weight of a wrist watch...

HeavyDuty
01-20-12, 08:51
The one I've noticed recently has already been mentioned - slick smaller diameter rails with add-on panels. Look what Troy started!

rob_s
01-20-12, 09:21
The one I've noticed recently has already been mentioned - slick smaller diameter rails with add-on panels. Look what Clark/Hiperform/PRI started!

fixed

scottryan
01-20-12, 09:29
More 16" AR-15s in 300 blk isn't going to get it done.

We need other guns in 300 blk. We need bolt guns, TC Encores, etc

I noticed the number of pictures with ARs with milled receivers. Not going to get it done.

1911-A1
01-20-12, 10:01
From a novelty-seeking hobbyist's standpoint, I am really looking forward to the Tavor being released.

The practical side of me is glad to see new AAC cans.

Also, according to a video I saw, H&K figured out a way to make a 7.62 AR weigh 17lbs? I hope the accuracy benefits of a steel upper receiver are worth it.

Iraq Ninja
01-20-12, 10:11
Another plate carrier trend I see here is the going away from Molle webbing on vests. Some folks, such as First Spear, are cutting slots in the material and reinforcing it. Standard molle pouches will work on it, but FS has a unique mounting method that actually breaks away at certain weights. This is a nice feature if you work maritime or around aviation.

We really liked what First Spear is doing in terms of kit design.

Smocks are popular. Vertx, Crye, and First Spear all have nice ones.

Dog tracking collars seem to be big this year.

More Chinese made scopes as well.

ForTehNguyen
01-20-12, 12:00
only things I saw that I was interested in are the Tavor, First Spear 6/12 Tubes, and that Geissle tuned milspec trigger

markm
01-20-12, 12:12
The piston revolution is still strong. I glad I hopped off that train when I did.


That's too bad... I'd HATE to have my eggs in that basket right now. I think the Retards are even figuring out how retarded the piston AR is.

markm
01-20-12, 12:14
There's NOTHING exciting about silencer releases... By the time they get to dealers and Forms get approved, people will be talking about next years models. :rolleyes:

rob_s
01-20-12, 12:16
There's NOTHING exciting about silencer releases... By the time they get to dealers and Forms get approved, people will be talking about next years models. :rolleyes:

The one exception to this *may* be the Surefire 762 MINI. They seem to have a better track record of show:production delay, and for all I know the thing already is out as they also tend to have product available before it's even on their site.

Alric
01-20-12, 12:20
There's NOTHING exciting about silencer releases... By the time they get to dealers and Forms get approved, people will be talking about next years models. :rolleyes:

Agreed. Its more than a little disappointing that my SDN-6 is obsolete by the SR-7 before it even cleared the ATF.

markm
01-20-12, 12:27
Agreed. Its more than a little disappointing that my SDN-6 is obsolete by the SR-7 before it even cleared the ATF.

Yeah!! No doubt! I'm not dealing with AAC anymore... This 90T nonsense.... We were trying to fix the 51T yesterday. :rolleyes: But I need to buy a $2000 lathe to make their 51T's lock up right for bolt gunning. :sad:

Titleist
01-20-12, 12:39
For my money, the stuff I thought was the coolest was not big ticket items like guns, but smaller gear innovations. It wasn't all peachy though.

Specifically:
-TNVC had an IR patch that illuminated veins under IR. Amazingly cool tech. They also had what they were calling IR Dirt, which is a binary compound that can be cut, shaken, and spread around the ground or on a person. It's basically the color of dirt, but glows bright under NODs. Absolutely cool tech.

-S&S Precision's plate harness was so simple but brilliant. 1lb 6oz. Shipping in a few months and 380 dollars. I can see this being a fantastic setup for police or special operations units needing either active shooter rigs or something incredibly low profile.

-This was truly the year of the slick rail. Between Geiselle's rail, Noveske's NSR-11, the new URXs, Troy, etc etc...excessive rails are going away...fast.

-Leupold's Mk6 and CQBSS. The Mk6 was everywhere this year, and for good reason. Leupold came out swinging with their 1-6 short dot which looks great. The Mk6 3-18x incorporates the turret design of the CQBSS, along with the zoom controls being the entire bell of the scope. Price looks to be about 1800-2000, or about 2700-2800 with the H58 reticle. The big news is that the CQBSS, which is a good scope in the H27D version, but was 4500 dollars (ugh), is that it's now been dropped down to 3000 dollars. Yay!

-S&B...wow, what a disappointment. Boooo! They've increased their cost to 3500 dollars, and STILL no solid release date. Now having to finally look through it, the exit pupil is bad...really bad.

-Suppressors. Wow did SilencerCo come out swinging with their Saker can. The biggest thing was that the Saker can be retrofitted to drop on the existing AAC 51-tooth muzzle devices. Talk about sneaky snakes. AAC also had their awesome Titanium Element .22, new SR 300BLK cans, break open rifle, and 91-Tooth cans and muzzle devices. Surefire had their new .22 (which to me felt way too complicated compared to SilencerCo and AAC's offerings).

-Lights. Sorry but I just do NOT get strobing...at all. And it seemed like strobes were on EVERYTHING this year.

I'll post up some photos shortly.

jonconsiglio
01-20-12, 12:46
Rob, I thought you were at SHOT this year.. Disregard my last email then unless you're headed next year. ;)

scottryan
01-20-12, 12:57
Agreed. Its more than a little disappointing that my SDN-6 is obsolete by the SR-7 before it even cleared the ATF.


I am in the same boat and I am extremely pissed about this.

I am so pissed that I have contemplating switching over to Surefire products completely.

Titleist
01-20-12, 13:02
One of the biggest customers for the new 91-tooth mount was the SOCOM contract. But they should totally hold off on that stuff to take care of customer instant gratification.

Todd.K
01-20-12, 13:06
It's normal with electronics, cars, etc. Not sure why some see improvements as such a bad thing with silencers.

I mean does my older car stop doing what I bought it for because the 2012 model came out with more HP and better mileage?

markm
01-20-12, 13:08
I am so pissed that I have contemplating switching over to Surefire products completely.

AAC has done this almost every year. They're almost MASTERFUL at alienating their customers.

I don't think I could support the Surefire Machine though...

orionz06
01-20-12, 13:14
-Suppressors. Wow did SilencerCo come out swinging with their Saker can. The biggest thing was that the Saker can be retrofitted to drop on the existing AAC 51-tooth muzzle devices. Talk about sneaky snakes. AAC also had their awesome Titanium Element .22, new SR 300BLK cans, break open rifle, and 91-Tooth cans and muzzle devices. Surefire had their new .22 (which to me felt way too complicated compared to SilencerCo and AAC's offerings).

So the Sparrow seems like the likely best choice considering the new SF can?

Also, size wise, Saker vs the SF Mini, any ideas?





-Lights. Sorry but I just do NOT get strobing...at all. And it seemed like strobes were on EVERYTHING this year.


Confuses zombies, duh!

Titleist
01-20-12, 13:30
So the Sparrow seems like the likely best choice considering the new SF can?

Also, size wise, Saker vs the SF Mini, any ideas?



For my money I'd probably rock the AAC Element. The Saker is about the size of the SF 212. The Mini is still...friggin small. The SAKER is also about 200 dollars more than the SF Mini.

I do like that you can swap out the end caps, as they offer one with a 3 prong end-cap that makes first round flash all but non-existent. The downside is that the end caps look like they might fall off after heavy use.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7005/6717393323_0d587f2de0_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7022/6717391827_d8fe276aaf_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7171/6717393715_94cd1491da_b.jpg

markm
01-20-12, 13:39
What is the SAKER supposed to sell for?

Titleist
01-20-12, 13:42
What is the SAKER supposed to sell for?

This was second hand, but I believe 1200.

markm
01-20-12, 13:56
This was second hand, but I believe 1200.

Ouch! I like the potential... but not the price. :cray:

Titleist
01-20-12, 14:02
Ouch! I like the potential... but not the price. :cray:

Again that was totally second hand. I don't have the price sheet with me.

NorthDakota
01-20-12, 14:07
I may have to jump on the suppressor wagon with this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhpYTyv9-Qk

orionz06
01-20-12, 14:19
Saker price is $1200 as per a guy from SilencerCo posting on SilencerForum. I suspect they might sell for a touch less at some places.

markm
01-20-12, 14:32
I may have to jump on the suppressor wagon with this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhpYTyv9-Qk

This looks good.

scottryan
01-20-12, 14:56
It's normal with electronics, cars, etc. Not sure why some see improvements as such a bad thing with silencers.

I mean does my older car stop doing what I bought it for because the 2012 model came out with more HP and better mileage?



Surefire has not changed mounts 3 times in the past 5 years.

And none of their mounts have any wobble.

ALCOAR
01-20-12, 15:02
How in the hell did nobody before SilencerCo figure out that by simply offsetting the heights of the three prongs, the famous "ping" goes away....unreal!

I'm glad I didn't get the SDN-6 just quite yet, the whole not locking up tight is really worrisome....not to mention that this 5.56 Saker has some seriously innovative stuff going on. Has anybody ask if there will be a 7.62 Saker?

orionz06
01-20-12, 15:04
How in the hell did nobody before SilencerCo figure out that by simply offsetting the heights of the three prongs, the famous "ping" goes away....unreal!

I'm glad I didn't get the SDN-6 just quite yet, the whole not locking up tight is really worrisome....not to mention that this 5.56 Saker has some seriously innovative stuff going on. Has anybody ask if there will be a 7.62 Saker?

Nobody probably even thought about it. Most companies appear to be satisfied with selling them no matter the complaints. If people are buying your stuff regardless why improve?

markm
01-20-12, 15:05
How in the hell did nobody before SilencerCo figure out that by simply offsetting the heights of the three prongs, the famous "ping" goes away....unreal!


I can see the dremels firing up to mod Blackouts now!! :D



I'm glad I didn't get the SDN-6 just quite yet, the whole not locking up tight is really worrisome....not to mention that this 5.56 Saker has some seriously innovative stuff going on. Has anybody ask if there will be a 7.62 Saker?

Good question.... Hopefully Ali Bama will be out on his ass this year, and ATF can stop worrying about Arming the cartels and start getting stamps in the friggin mail.

Titleist
01-20-12, 15:13
How in the hell did nobody before SilencerCo figure out that by simply offsetting the heights of the three prongs, the famous "ping" goes away....unreal!

Because most people really don't seem to actually care about that noise.

markm
01-20-12, 15:18
Because most people really don't seem to actually care about that noise.

Man... I see a lot of people crying about it on the forums. I kinda like it myself.

GlockWRX
01-20-12, 16:05
Some buddies and I were out shooting suppressed in the woods, and they kept thinking the ping on my M4/SPR mount was a ricochet.

Speaking of, it doesn't look like AAC will have a reflex style can at all now that they are ditching their MITER cans (unless I missed it). So it seems like reflex mounted cans are the un-hotness. Is this a fall out of ever longer rails and more and more people getting into SBRs?

tctlrld
01-20-12, 16:06
It's normal with electronics, cars, etc. Not sure why some see improvements as such a bad thing with silencers.

I mean does my older car stop doing what I bought it for because the 2012 model came out with more HP and better mileage?

Todd nails it. I am in the same boat as a lot of people. I have a 762SDN6 that is in BATF limbo. (Sent forms ~Aug)
I saw the SR7 announcement, and it's kind of annoying seeing the latest and greatest come out while you're still waiting.

There's always going to be something new coming out. I don't think we want companies to stop innovating. If anything we need to get BATF to dislodge whatever has stopped the cogs from moving. I remember just a few years ago my forms clearing in ~30 days. My TiRant 45 took ~5 months. This wouldn't be as big of an issues IMO if F4s came back promptly.

Also, SilencerCo absolutely hits it out of the park with the Saker. If for nothing else capitalizing on the fact that they can use third party mounts. Especially now that AAC seems to be migrating away from 51T.

Titleist
01-20-12, 16:09
In the product/electronics design industry we refer to this as "Early Adopter Tax"

Todd.K
01-20-12, 16:22
Surefire has not changed mounts 3 times in the past 5 years.

And none of their mounts have any wobble.
Two changes. And wasn't the 18t like the second or third QD centerfire ever?
The 51t was made because of some 18t loosening under hard use.
The 90t Taper was made for the people who don't like any wobble.


Does it suck to not have the latest? Sure it does, but the idea that making something better = trying to F over customers with the old design is too much.

markm
01-20-12, 16:28
So it seems like reflex mounted cans are the un-hotness. Is this a fall out of ever longer rails and more and more people getting into SBRs?

Yes and Yes!

I can't wait for this fad to fade!

restfortheweary
01-20-12, 16:31
I have an M4-2000 and an SDN6. All of my rifles have 51T mounts and I'm still glad to see AAC innovating. Product evolution is good for all of us.

markm
01-20-12, 16:34
I'm waiting for the 120 toofus mount. :fie:

(next year)

TCBA_Joe
01-20-12, 16:42
It's normal with electronics, cars, etc. Not sure why some see improvements as such a bad thing with silencers.

I mean does my older car stop doing what I bought it for because the 2012 model came out with more HP and better mileage?

Because, silencers are seen as lifelong commitments. And to see a company constantly change stuff before most people get the original version is understandably annoying.


Ouch! I like the potential... but not the price. :cray:

Not a horrible price, especially considering it comes w/ a FH.

M4-2K MSRP is $1050. Add in a $100 for a FH, you're up to $1150. $50 difference considering the ability to use multiple QD mounts is totally worth it in my eyes. I would have liked it to be closer in size to the -212. Maybe by the time I can actually get a can, it will be.

ALCOAR
01-20-12, 16:48
Man... I see a lot of people crying about it on the forums. I kinda like it myself.

Exactly, I have had several blackouts on my rifles, and if I even notice the "ping", it never bothers me in the least. I just would have thought that after the millionth..."just installed a blackout and it's making a weird tuning fork noise" thread, AAC and anybody who makes one like it would have listened.

The only way I'll ever dive into the minutia and endless debates over these latest wizz bang suppressors is if they become non NFA items.

HeavyDuty
01-20-12, 18:57
The one I've noticed recently has already been mentioned - slick smaller diameter rails with add-on panels. Look what Troy popularized!


Fixed

steve--oh
01-21-12, 06:40
Yeah!! No doubt! I'm not dealing with AAC anymore... This 90T nonsense.... We were trying to fix the 51T yesterday. :rolleyes: But I need to buy a $2000 lathe to make their 51T's lock up right for bolt gunning. :sad:

For what it's worth, our 2010s use the 51t mounts for AAC suppressors. And they've been solid. Lots of shooting, lots of removing and remounting, under pretty shitty conditions. Small OPs, no armorer support. Small sample size, I know, but... my observation.

markm
01-21-12, 20:42
For what it's worth, our 2010s use the 51t mounts for AAC suppressors. And they've been solid. Lots of shooting, lots of removing and remounting, under pretty shitty conditions. Small OPs, no armorer support. Small sample size, I know, but... my observation.

I know the 51T works... it just doesn't lock up tight for precision.

We ran through a handful of mounts yesterday and only one of them would lock up with no wobble. Not a problem for general use... but we're running a 762 SDN on some bolt guns... and a rattling can farks up barrel harmonics.

Littlelebowski
01-21-12, 21:04
I know the 51T works... it just doesn't lock up tight for precision.

We ran through a handful of mounts yesterday and only one of them would lock up with no wobble. Not a problem for general use... but we're running a 762 SDN on some bolt guns... and a rattling can farks up barrel harmonics.

I guarantee steve-oh can comment on precision fire. Not saying he will disprove you or not but do listen when he speaks about stuff like this.

scottryan
01-21-12, 21:29
I guarantee steve-oh can comment on precision fire. Not saying he will disprove you or not but do listen when he speaks about stuff like this.


The problem with the wobble is widely known in bolt gun circles. There is nothing to disprove or prove.

Littlelebowski
01-21-12, 21:37
The problem with the wobble is widely known in bolt gun circles. There is nothing to disprove or prove.

What I was saying is that one should listen to what the deployed Ranger on a mountaintop in Afghanistan seeing combat every day has to say. That is it, Scott.

justlikeanyoneelse
01-21-12, 21:58
Yeah, ****ing zombies. I can't believe that even a company like eotech would jump on zombie bandwagon.


Can you elaborate on eotechs zombie involvement? A link too it would be nice, Its kinda disappointing to hear a lot of companies are trying to cash in on the zombie craze. I bought a case of Honradys zombie ammo but that was a one time joke purchase.

ForTehNguyen
01-21-12, 22:55
the zombie thing is all in good fun

Why so Serious?

justlikeanyoneelse
01-21-12, 23:11
I was just wondering about eotechs involvement with zombie merchandising, zombie ammunition was fun but seriously some items just do not make sense. Like what would eotech do with their hws? Paint it green and make the reticule a skull and crossbones? I'll admit that would be cool but who honestly has several hundred dollars for just a cool hws.

ForTehNguyen
01-21-12, 23:13
they just replaced the standard reticle with a biohazard reticle

http://www.ondutygear.com/control/product/~product_id=EOTECH-XPS2-Z

http://www.ondutygear.com/images/products/eotech/XPS2-Z-biohazard-recticle.jpg

justlikeanyoneelse
01-21-12, 23:19
With practicality aside that is pretty cool. Too bad its $525.00.

neo9710
01-21-12, 23:27
A suppressor is on my wishlist for this year too..Hmmm..

glocktogo
01-22-12, 02:24
Because, silencers are seen as lifelong commitments. And to see a company constantly change stuff before most people get the original version is understandably annoying.

Not a horrible price, especially considering it comes w/ a FH.

M4-2K MSRP is $1050. Add in a $100 for a FH, you're up to $1150. $50 difference considering the ability to use multiple QD mounts is totally worth it in my eyes. I would have liked it to be closer in size to the -212. Maybe by the time I can actually get a can, it will be.

While a lot of the new rimfire and pistol cans are a lifelong setup, centerfire rifle cans, and particularly 5.56 cans are a consumable item. At least they are if you use the hell out of them like a lot of folks around here do.

TehLlama
01-22-12, 02:50
I'm glad a few companies were able to release zombie themed stuff AND something that didn't involve/lead to/incur head trauma - Leupold did both, and is the only data point that leads me to believe it's supposed to actually be whimsical.

I do think the VTAC S&W rifle is a decent encapsulation of what's good about SHOT from this year - the Leupy VX/Mk6 line atop a modular handguard paired with an excellent trigger from Geissele at a reasonable cost.
If this is the trend, the CostaLudus rifles from LT and the RedBackOne rifles from Centurion are both going to be brilliant options.

IIRC cyalume has had the IR dirt in development for a while, but it's a great concept. I can't wait for Spike's to decide it's the perfect addition to their LocalMotors Rally machine, that's just going to be funny right there.

.45fmjoe
01-22-12, 10:22
I'm waiting for the 120 toofus mount. :fie:

(next year)

Teefs. :nono:

Biggy
01-22-12, 18:08
Did Battle Comp Enterprises introduce any new products ? Also, were there any new striker fired 9mm pistols introduced this year besides the FN pistol ? An last, did Apex Tactical have any new items for the S&W M&P pistol besides the Bar-Sto barrel ? I think the Leupold VX-6 2-12x42mm would work just fine on my varmint/Recce type rifle, even without an AO lens.

Titleist
01-22-12, 18:11
Nothing new from BCE.

trinydex
01-23-12, 03:54
Another plate carrier trend I see here is the going away from Molle webbing on vests. Some folks, such as First Spear, are cutting slots in the material and reinforcing it. Standard molle pouches will work on it, but FS has a unique mounting method that actually breaks away at certain weights. This is a nice feature if you work maritime or around aviation.

We really liked what First Spear is doing in terms of kit design.

Smocks are popular. Vertx, Crye, and First Spear all have nice ones.

Dog tracking collars seem to be big this year.

More Chinese made scopes as well.

Can you explain how the firstspear pouches mount to their carrier? Is the ladder panel accessible from the back somehow?

markm
01-23-12, 08:26
The problem with the wobble is widely known in bolt gun circles. There is nothing to disprove or prove.

There's apparently a solution... We're going to have some mounts relieved to allow the can to lock up properly.... next time we're at the smith's shop.

It'd take a heck of a salesman to get me to buy off on the notion that a can with play isn't messing with barrel harmonics somehow.... and not consistently from shot to shot.

Iraq Ninja
01-23-12, 08:56
Can you explain how the firstspear pouches mount to their carrier? Is the ladder panel accessible from the back somehow?

Scroll down to the 6\12 section in this link-

http://www.first-spear.com/pages.php?pageid=20

ForTehNguyen
01-23-12, 15:14
biggest thing im interested in now and would buy to try when it comes out is the ALG Defense QMS tuned mil spec triggers.