Trying to decide between a SCAR 17 and the new PredatoBR.

[Alaskapopo]

Here is what I am thinking with Larue's leo discount the SCAR and the Predatobr will cost me about the same. The mags are far cheaper for the Larue if I use P mags. The accuracy will probably be better.
The Scar will probably be more reliable. My friend has an OBR and when it was -20 below it would not cycle with Federal Match. It worked with the reloads I made him but not the good stuff. The SCAR is also far more tested since the military adobted it for the SOCOM units. I am torn right now. My intended use would be two fold. 1. As a three gun rifle for heavy tac optics and irons. 2. LEO precision rifle.
I am willing to accept 1.5 moa with good ammo. I would like better but this is what I can live with. But I also want it to be reliable at all costs. What do you guys thing?
Pat

[tucsonan]

How often will you be operating at -20? If it is a duty rifle the thing needs to go bang first and formost. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that either one will fit your need until you wring it out in your AO. That is an extreme weather environment. It could lead to a very expensive learning curve if it is done on your own dime.

[QuietShootr]

Here is what I am thinking with Larue's leo discount the SCAR and the Predatobr will cost me about the same. The mags are far cheaper for the Larue if I use P mags. The accuracy will probably be better.
The Scar will probably be more reliable. My friend has an OBR and when it was -20 below it would not cycle with Federal Match. It worked with the reloads I made him but not the good stuff. The SCAR is also far more tested since the military adobted it for the SOCOM units. I am torn right now. My intended use would be two fold. 1. As a three gun rifle for heavy tac optics and irons. 2. LEO precision rifle.
I am willing to accept 1.5 moa with good ammo. I would like better but this is what I can live with. But I also want it to be reliable at all costs. What do you guys thing?
Pat

Given your criteria, reliability uber alles, the SCAR is the clear choice.

[Jake'sDad]

Colt is claiming sub MOA for the LE901. Not sure if it meets your other specs, or if you want to wait, but just thought I'd throw that out there.

http://www.policeproducts.com/images/LE901.pdf

I believe Grant said Colt said March delivery, but who knows with Colt.

[GlockWRX]

Was this an early OBR? The newer ones have a new 'feature' that is supposed to aid in reliability. Don't know if that would have helped your buddies rifle work better.

I'm leaning PreadtOBR because I would like something with more accuracy than a typical battle rifle. I'd like .5 to 1 MOA for the setup I'm going for. But if maximum reliability is the main concern and 1.5 MOA is acceptable, the SCAR would probably be the better choice.

[CarbonCycles]

Quick question, what kind of malfunctions were you witnessing and were you able to trace it down to a single variable?

If it's a simple lube related issue, then there are others out there that are rated for extreme cold.

[Reagans Rascals]

I would go with anything other than the SCAR.

go with the Larue and just lube the BCG and inside of the upper with some Automatic Transmission Fluid when planning to shoot in sub-zero temps.... ATF is a cheap solution that works just as well as the other "specialty" low-temp lubes out there.

And I'd spray a few liberal coats of WD-40 in the FCG and Buffer Spring just to alleviate any excess moisture that could potentially freeze and cause problems.

But unless you live in Saskatchewan or Nightmute, I wouldn't look at shooting in sub-zero temps as a year-round issue, if so you might need to look at a bolt gun by AI....

you could even go as far as having a few swirl grooves cut in the exterior of the Bolt Carrier to help "unstick" things as it moves, much like the bolt in the AI and McMillan guns

[C4IGrant]

Given your criteria, reliability uber alles, the SCAR is the clear choice.

Agree.



C4

[rsilvers]

Consider that the LaRue has a better trigger by default, but you can upgrade the SCAR trigger if you are unhappy with it.

I like them both - and cannot decide myself.

[QuietShootr]

I would go with anything other than the SCAR.




http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-arHbaaFzB6Q/TpeXq4FtBSI/AAAAAAAAA5U/IXvQ0A8XxVA/s1600/funny-dog-pictures-wtf.jpg

You're going to argue that the Larue is proven to be more reliable than the SCAR 17? Really?

[Nevermiss]

I would give LaRue a call and get some more info.

IIRC, the Suitcase rifle is the 14.5" 762 PredatOBR that had been purchased in quantity by Texas Rangers. Perhaps, LaRue could give you a contact to see what the else Rangers considered and get info on their T&E data.

[lwrkeysfisher]

I'm tired of agonizing over this and have chosen---I'm going to buy one of each. I'm buying the Larue immediately upon release and the Scar once the mag fiasco resolves itself. If I clearly prefer one over the other I'll sell one, if not I'll keep both.

[Reagans Rascals]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-arHbaaFzB6Q/TpeXq4FtBSI/AAAAAAAAA5U/IXvQ0A8XxVA/s1600/funny-dog-pictures-wtf.jpg

You're going to argue that the Larue is proven to be more reliable than the SCAR 17? Really?

I don't believe the word "anything" can only mean the Larue OBR.... there are plenty of better options than the SCAR 17... the SR-25, HK417 etc.

[Alaskapopo]

Quick question, what kind of malfunctions were you witnessing and were you able to trace it down to a single variable?

If it's a simple lube related issue, then there are others out there that are rated for extreme cold.

It was a failure to fully cycle. My reloads were a bit warmer so they did work. I am not saying the rifle sucked.It was just a concern as it does get cold up here.

Right now I am leaning towards the Larue because of cost. The Scar is going to cost me 2700 to 2900 then there is $400 for the Geisselle trigger, $480 in magazines, and $200 for an extended forearm. Still have not made up my mind but after looking at it the SCAR is going to cost me a lot more cash.
pat

[QuietShootr]

I don't believe the word "anything" can only mean the Larue OBR.... there are plenty of better options than the SCAR 17... the SR-25, HK417 etc.

You're running off at the mouth about things you don't know about....again. The SR25 is known for its unreliability, both in its original guise and as an M110 - it's only VERY recently that the EMC and later models have had anything approaching reliability compared to a 6920. And if you've got extensive experience with the HK417 (which is not available for individual officer purchase anyway) please, enlighten us about that.

The SCAR is the most tested small arm in military history - perhaps the most tested small arm ever. It's not perfect, just like a Glock isn't perfect - but if you had to pick a 7.62 from currently manufactured rifles on the basis of reliability, (assume you cannot buy a new H&K-manufactured G3 for the purposes of that argument) the SCAR will MOST LIKELY give you the best reliability, just the same as if you had to pick a pistol at random to take out of the box and go to war with, the Glock would be the safest bet.

The AR10 variants, in their best form, are ****ing NICE rifles - but none of them have been through even half what the SCAR went through, and passed, in its testing process. Yes, the OBR, EMC, and MWS will whip its ass for accuracy, but let's play -20 with debris, grease, powder fouling, and questionable ammo and see what happens.

The OP asked for reliability above everything else. Being that he can't buy a new HK91/G3, the SCAR is going to be it.

[vinsonr]

then there is $400 for the Geisselle trigger

Which trigger? I have an SSA-E in my N6 and it's wonderful for precision and battle rifle duty.

[QuietShootr]

Which trigger? I have an SSA-E in my N6 and it's wonderful for precision and battle rifle duty.

The Super-SCAR. The only one Geissele makes for it.

[Javelin]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-arHbaaFzB6Q/TpeXq4FtBSI/AAAAAAAAA5U/IXvQ0A8XxVA/s1600/funny-dog-pictures-wtf.jpg

You're going to argue that the Larue is proven to be more reliable than the SCAR 17? Really?

Haha. I feel like that picture most days.

[GlockWRX]

It was a failure to fully cycle. My reloads were a bit warmer so they did work. I am not saying the rifle sucked.It was just a concern as it does get cold up here.

Right now I am leaning towards the Larue because of cost. The Scar is going to cost me 2700 to 2900 then there is $400 for the Geisselle trigger, $480 in magazines, and $200 for an extended forearm. Still have not made up my mind but after looking at it the SCAR is going to cost me a lot more cash.
pat

If you search the AAR threads over at Lightfighter, you'll see Freddie Blish ran a PredatAR through some high volume rifle classes with good success. Granted, it was usually done in hot, dusty environments rather than cold wet ones. Freddie now works at LaRue and would probably be happy to answer any questions you have about performance in cold weather.

A couple of data points from my limited experience with the OBR and SCAR:

The stock trigger on the SCAR is no Geisselle, but it's not terrible either. The one I shot was about what you would expect from a decent AR trigger (say, a Colt). If you are primarily after a battle rifle, it would work fine as is IMO. The guy that owns it claims it's a 1.5 MOA shooter.

As to the OBR, they may not have as much testing as the SCAR, but they are seeing combat with some groups, as well as LE service. The PredatOBRs are delayed to fulfill a contract with the Texas Rangers. They are also popular with precision rifle competitors. As a precision rifle, the OBR is the standout.

I think the concensus on this thread still stands though: if absolute reliability is your main concern and 1.5 MOA is ok, the SCAR is probably the best choice. The OBRs (to include all variants that LaRue makes) aren't necessarily unreliable, but in a head-to-head match-up I'd give the edge to the SCAR. If you value accuracy more than absolute reliability, then the OBR is a better choice.

For me personally, I wanted a gun that would shoot .5-.75 MOA. I'm willing to get that with some minor sacrifice in reliability. I also want to run suppressed so I'm waiting on the PredatOBR with the PST gasblock. Given your criteria though, I would take a long look at the PredatAR. It's $500 less than the PredatOBR and a bit lighter. It shoots almost as well as the heavy barreled OBRs, at least for the first couple of magazines.

I think the real lesson from this thread is that the market for good 7.62 products is growing in leaps and bounds. We haven't even talked about the new lighter versions of the LMT or the new Colt 901. 5 or so years ago this conversation would be G3 vs FAL vs M1A.

[Alaskapopo]

I guess I should revise what I want. I said 1.5 moa because in the past my experiences with .308 autos has not been that great for accuracy. My GAP AR10 was a 1.25 moa gun but it weighed close to17 pounds with optics, bipod etc. My former AR10 carbine was around 12 or so and it was a 2 moa gun. What I want is as much accuracy as possible in a package that does not weight much over 10 pounds and still have reliablity. How accurate is the SCAR?
Pat

[QuietShootr]

I guess I should revise what I want. I said 1.5 moa because in the past my experiences with .308 autos has not been that great for accuracy. My GAP AR10 was a 1.25 moa gun but it weighed close to17 pounds with optics, bipod etc. My former AR10 carbine was around 12 or so and it was a 2 moa gun. What I want is as much accuracy as possible in a package that does not weight much over 10 pounds and still have reliablity. How accurate is the SCAR?
Pat

Mine averages MOA or slightly better with M118LR, no more than 2.5 MOA with the shittiest ammo I can stuff in it (which causes no malfunctions, either. Try to run a couple of boxes of German surplus, Brown Bear, Wolf, or Tula through an OBR or EMC and see what happens.).

[d90king]

If reliability is your first priority then I think you have to put the LMT MWS on your list. The MWS has proven to be very reliable and it has been very well vetted and tested. The biggest downside to the MWS is its weight. It doesn't bother me much because I'm shooting it off the deck, but if you are going to have to hump it I think its something to consider. It will also have a little more ass to it with the shorter gas system on the stock 16" barrel.

I like the SCAR a lot but until they start sourcing mags and parts I'm waiting on the sidelines.

[GlockWRX]

How accurate is the SCAR?
Pat

Like I said, my buddy says his is 1.5 MOA. But he shoots primarily Prvi 175 gr through it. I bet with good hand loads or better factory ammo you could get to 1 MOA.

The PredatAR weighs in at 7.75 lbs with a full length rail. Once you add the rail extension to the SCAR it would be a wash weight wise. I would give an edge to the PredatAR in accuracy. I've heard guys getting .75 MOA. The thin barrel will heat up after a while and give some stringing though.

The OBR is heavier at 9.25 lbs. So I don't think it would make the 10 lbs limit.

The PredatOBR is supposed to weigh in around 8.2-8.5 lbs. So it would be close. But this should carry the accuracy of the standard OBR.

I haven't seen the weights given for the revised MWS models with the lighter rails and barrels, but I would expect it would be in the 8.5 range. I think the new Colt was over 9 lbs, so it wouldn't make the cut.

[Alaskapopo]

If reliability is your first priority then I think you have to put the LMT MWS on your list. The MWS has proven to be very reliable and it has been very well vetted and tested. The biggest downside to the MWS is its weight. It doesn't bother me much because I'm shooting it off the deck, but if you are going to have to hump it I think its something to consider. It will also have a little more ass to it with the shorter gas system on the stock 16" barrel.

I like the SCAR a lot but until they start sourcing mags and parts I'm waiting on the sidelines.

I dropped previous .308 rifles because of the excess weight so I don't want to go back that direction.
Pat

[QuietShootr]

I dropped previous .308 rifles because of the excess weight so I don't want to go back that direction.
Pat

Well then you damn sure won't want an LMT. They're well-built weapons but they weigh a metric shit-ton. And they recoil a lot harder than a SCAR does, even AFTER you replace the SCAR's obnoxious PWS brake with a flash suppressor.

[Alaskapopo]

As to recoil guys the reason the SCAR recoils less is it comes with an effective muzzle brake. I had the PWS on my AR10 carbine and it does a good job. There is a huge difference in the gun with and without that muzzle attachment. Not a dis on the SCAR but the low recoil reports are being attributed to some wonderful design when its just the muzzle brake. Put that brake on any .308 carbine and you will get similar results. I have and did. I am still up in the air but leaning towards the Larue because of cost and accuracy. If the price was closer such as if there were SCAR P Mags it would be an even harder decision.
Pat

[d90king]

I dropped previous .308 rifles because of the excess weight so I don't want to go back that direction.
Pat

Yeah, you can definitely scratch it from the list then because it's a pig. :D

It's a great rifle, that is both accurate and reliable, but you are sacrificing portability with it. The new one will be lighter but I don't think it will be anywhere near the weight of the SCAR or Pred.

I think you have it narrowed down to, two great rifles. Best of luck with whatever you decide, I'm not sure you can go wrong with either one.

[Alaskapopo]

Yeah, you can definitely scratch it from the list then because it's a pig. :D

It's a great rifle, that is both accurate and reliable, but you are sacrificing portability with it. The new one will be lighter but I don't think it will be anywhere near the weight of the SCAR or Pred.

I think you have it narrowed down to, two great rifles. Best of luck with whatever you decide, I'm not sure you can go wrong with either one.

The reason I want the lighter weight is I plan on using it for three gun as well as a precion type rifle. A jack of all trades.
Pat

[Suwannee Tim]

As to recoil guys the reason the SCAR recoils less is it comes with an effective muzzle brake......

I think the reason the recoil feels light is because it has a large reciprocating mass. I've shot everything from a Remington 742 jammamatic which has a very light reciprocating mass to the SCAR which is quite heavy. My theory is the moving mass absorbs much of the rearward momentum then transfers it to the shooter gradually through the spring.

You do know the SCAR trigger sucks and the sights are a joke? A Geissele trigger will cost you $400. This is the main fact that has dismayed me about the SCAR. When I say the trigger sucks I mean it is heavy but worse, unpredictable.

[Alaskapopo]

I think the reason the recoil feels light is because it has a large reciprocating mass. I've shot everything from a Remington 742 jammamatic which has a very light reciprocating mass to the SCAR which is quite heavy. My theory is the moving mass absorbs much of the rearward momentum then transfers it to the shooter gradually through the spring.

You do know the SCAR trigger sucks and the sights are a joke? A Geissele trigger will cost you $400. This is the main fact that has dismayed me about the SCAR. When I say the trigger sucks I mean it is heavy but worse, unpredictable.

Muzzle brakes make a huge difference and any threegunner can tell you that. Not saying other factos don't play a role but the muzzle brake advantage is huge. The sights on the SCAR look fine to me.
Pat

[QuietShootr]

Muzzle brakes make a huge difference and any threegunner can tell you that. Not saying other factos don't play a role but the muzzle brake advantage is huge. The sights on the SCAR look fine to me.
Pat

The brake does HELP on the SCAR, but to me the excessive blast is not worth it. The PWS has given me permanent tinnitus in my right ear. I replaced it with a Gemtech Bi-Lock flash suppressor on mine and it still recoils far less than the MWS does. I think the short-stroke piston and heavy carrier, as ST notes above, are probably a large part of it.

[Alaskapopo]

The brake does HELP on the SCAR, but to me the excessive blast is not worth it. The PWS has given me permanent tinnitus in my right ear. I replaced it with a Gemtech Bi-Lock flash suppressor on mine and it still recoils far less than the MWS does. I think the short-stroke piston and heavy carrier, as ST notes above, are probably a large part of it.

I used that very same brake on my last .308 rifles. Before it was installed the muzzle jump and recoil was considerably more. I ended up replacing the one on the 20 inch precision rifle with a SJC titan which was more effective even. On the carbine I put standard flash hider back on it due to the reason you stated the blast was horriffic. I would not put one on a barrel with less than 18 inches at least not on a .308. But that being said the muzzle brake made a huge difference in muzzle jump far more than the difference in a gas piston vs a DI gun. In fact in the gas piston AR's I have fired I have felt more recoil not less.
Pat

[QuietShootr]

I think the reason the recoil feels light is because it has a large reciprocating mass. I've shot everything from a Remington 742 jammamatic which has a very light reciprocating mass to the SCAR which is quite heavy. My theory is the moving mass absorbs much of the rearward momentum then transfers it to the shooter gradually through the spring.

You do know the SCAR trigger sucks and the sights are a joke? A Geissele trigger will cost you $400. This is the main fact that has dismayed me about the SCAR. When I say the trigger sucks I mean it is heavy but worse, unpredictable.

I disagree with you about the sights. They're actually quite well thought-out, and the only thing I'd change about them is that the rear sight does not lock in the deployed position. As for the trigger - my experience seems to be typical. It started out gritty/shitty, and then after several hundred rounds it idiopathically smoothed out. It seems they all do that.

[Nevermiss]

I know this is not what you asked, but you owe it to yourself to shoot the JP LRP-07 as well.

I have about 2,000 rounds through mine without any issues, but I've not run in -20 degrees. I guess I would need to check and see how Slip EWL-2000 works at that temp.

Some people worry about the adjustable gas block on a duty rifle, but you can adjust it for your duty ammo, open it up a little more and Lock-tite it in that spot if it concerns you.

I have a few rounds through the SCAR-17 and many more through my 762 OBR and 762 PredatAR. Even with a Sure Fire brake on my PredatAR, the recoil signature and muzzle movement is much more significant than my LRP-07. If I could practice more and shoot 20-30K rounds a year, I probably wouldn't notice any significant difference in my splits.

Adam Popplewell shoots the OBR in Heavy Metal and does just fine.

However, if it were possible to let you run and shoot blind-folded, I have no doubt which one you would pick.

I have the PRS stock, 18" bbl and run a Swaro Z6i 1-6X for 3 Gun. It really does recoil like a 223 with an A2 flash hider.

Having said that, I may get the 14.5" 762 PredatOBR "Suitcase" rifle when it's available, just because I like 308 ARs. There are threads all over the place about the PredatOBR (PredatAR with the OBR barrel).

The SCAR-17 was going to be my first 308, because I REALLY wanted it and I know the SCAR-17 has been put through more testing...blah..blah..blah, but when I handled it, it just felt cheap with poor machining and I didn't like how it felt, shouldered, or balanced compared the other options I was considering (STOP-DO NOT FLAME ME- this just my subjective totally worthless opinion as I am not .mil and do not shoot at bad guys in -20 degree weather and I know your legally blind grandmother could outshoot me with her SCAR-17). It just wasn't the 308 that I wanted for my recreational shooting. Who knows, I may still end up getting one someday (I told you I really like 308 ARs).

However, if you are going to run a suppressor on this rifle for duty, this may affect your decision as well.

Bottom line is that you won't go wrong with the SCAR-17 or PredatAR for your needs.

I really shouldn't have had that cappuccino just before going to bed.

[trinydex]

I know this is not what you asked, but you owe it to yourself to shoot the JP LRP-07 as well.

I have about 2,000 rounds through mine without any issues, but I've not run in -20 degrees. I guess I would need to check and see how Slip EWL-2000 works at that temp.

Some people worry about the adjustable gas block on a duty rifle, but you can adjust it for your duty ammo, open it up a little more and Lock-tite it in that spot if it concerns you.

I have a few rounds through the SCAR-17 and many more through my 762 OBR and 762 PredatAR. Even with a Sure Fire brake on my PredatAR, the recoil signature and muzzle movement is much more significant than my LRP-07. If I could practice more and shoot 20-30K rounds a year, I probably wouldn't notice any significant difference.

Adam Popplewell shoot the OBR in Heavy Metal and does just fine.

However, if it were possible to let you run and shoot blind-folded, I have no doubt which one you would pick.

I have the PRS stock, 18" bbl and run a Swaro Z6i 1-6X for 3 Gun. It really does recoil like a 223 with an A2 flash hider.

Having said that, I may get the 14.5" 762 PredatOBR "Suitcase" rifle when it's available, just because I like 308 ARs.

The SCAR-17 was going to be my first 308, because I REALLY wanted it and I know the SCAR-17 has been put through more testing...blah..blah..blah, but when I handled it, it just felt cheap with poor machining and I didn't like how it felt, shouldered, or balanced compared the other options I was considering (STOP-DO NOT FLAME ME- this just my subjective totally worthless opinion as I am not .mil and do not shoot at bad guys in -20 degree weather and I know your legally blind grandmother could outshoot me with her SCAR-17). It just wasn't the 308 that I wanted for my recreational shooting. Who knows, I may still end up getting one someday (I told you I really like 308 ARs)

You won't go wrong with the SCAR-17 or PredatAR for your needs.

If u had the jp in hand and the larue in hand, even with blindfold, u could tell he difference by the weight no?

[Nevermiss]

If u had the jp in hand and the larue in hand, even with blindfold, u could tell he difference by the weight no?

Anyone could tell easily. My 18" JP with PRS Stock (9 lbs 11 oz-no optic) weighs about the same as the 16" OBR and the 16" PredatAR (with ACS stock and rail covers) is probably about 1.5 lbs. less than either.

If I had to carry the gun all day, I would DEFINITELY notice the weight. However, even shooting a longer 3 Gun course of fire, the JP does not feel heavy. I really thought I would like the lighter rifle more for quicker handling, response and balance, but I haven't found it to be so, especially once I start shooting with multiple shots on the same target at anything farther than "run and gun" distance.

Again, this is not a big deal, just an observation.

[Alaskapopo]

I know this is not what you asked, but you owe it to yourself to shoot the JP LRP-07 as well.

I have about 2,000 rounds through mine without any issues, but I've not run in -20 degrees. I guess I would need to check and see how Slip EWL-2000 works at that temp.

Some people worry about the adjustable gas block on a duty rifle, but you can adjust it for your duty ammo, open it up a little more and Lock-tite it in that spot if it concerns you.

I have a few rounds through the SCAR-17 and many more through my 762 OBR and 762 PredatAR. Even with a Sure Fire brake on my PredatAR, the recoil signature and muzzle movement is much more significant than my LRP-07. If I could practice more and shoot 20-30K rounds a year, I probably wouldn't notice any significant difference in my splits.

Adam Popplewell shoots the OBR in Heavy Metal and does just fine.

However, if it were possible to let you run and shoot blind-folded, I have no doubt which one you would pick.

I have the PRS stock, 18" bbl and run a Swaro Z6i 1-6X for 3 Gun. It really does recoil like a 223 with an A2 flash hider.

Having said that, I may get the 14.5" 762 PredatOBR "Suitcase" rifle when it's available, just because I like 308 ARs. There are threads all over the place about the PredatOBR (PredatAR with the OBR barrel).

The SCAR-17 was going to be my first 308, because I REALLY wanted it and I know the SCAR-17 has been put through more testing...blah..blah..blah, but when I handled it, it just felt cheap with poor machining and I didn't like how it felt, shouldered, or balanced compared the other options I was considering (STOP-DO NOT FLAME ME- this just my subjective totally worthless opinion as I am not .mil and do not shoot at bad guys in -20 degree weather and I know your legally blind grandmother could outshoot me with her SCAR-17). It just wasn't the 308 that I wanted for my recreational shooting. Who knows, I may still end up getting one someday (I told you I really like 308 ARs).

However, if you are going to run a suppressor on this rifle for duty, this may affect your decision as well.

Bottom line is that you won't go wrong with the SCAR-17 or PredatAR for your needs.

I really shouldn't have had that cappuccino just before going to bed.

JP makes some nice guns but I have seen one too many of their guns with the adjustable gas system cause users troubles in matches to the point I don't trust them. Not saying you could not stay on top of it but I want something that I don't have to baby or stay on top of. I always looked at JP rifles like race cars. In fairness I have not shot the JP in .308 just my friends guns in .223. What does the weight come in like on the JP and what is its accuracy level with match ammo or good reloads? Also does it use Knight/DPMS mags or Armalite mags. If it uses Armalite mags then no thank you.
Pat

[Suwannee Tim]

I disagree with you about the sights. They're actually quite well thought-out, and the only thing I'd change about them is that the rear sight does not lock in the deployed position. As for the trigger - my experience seems to be typical. It started out gritty/shitty, and then after several hundred rounds it idiopathically smoothed out. It seems they all do that.


I have a SCAR 16S and a 17S. Both guns, both sights are loose, they wiggle from side to side. Both guns cannot be properly sighted in. They grouped way low out of the box. I cranked the front sights down as far as they would go and they still shot low. I then had to crank the rear sights up, on the 16 to the 400 yard mark and on the 17, to the 500 yard mark to get a 200 yard zero. YMMV.

I have two other 7.62 ARs all of which have muzzle brakes. I see no reason to believe the muzzle brake or flash hider of the SCAR is superior to the Rock River or the LMT. Same with the 16S. I really think it is the reciprocating mass that makes the difference. They do shoot soft, that is a fact. I guess I could dismount the muzzle devices and try two guns side by side. The LMT is so heavy it would not be a fair comparison, maybe the Rock River. The LMT, heavy as it is it kicks more than the SCAR.

I haven't shot my 17 more than a couple or three hundred rounds. No doubt it will improve with use. What gripes me about it is that it is unpredictably. It feels like a shitty two stage for 20 or 30 shots then it reverts to a really shitty single stage for 20 or 30, then back. Try to master that.

[mkmckinley]

Mine averages MOA or slightly better with M118LR, no more than 2.5 MOA with the shittiest ammo I can stuff in it (which causes no malfunctions, either.

That's about my experience too. It has a surprising level of precision in a relatively lightweight, reliable package.

[Nevermiss]

JP makes some nice guns but I have seen one too many of their guns with the adjustable gas system cause users troubles in matches to the point I don't trust them. Not saying you could not stay on top of it but I want something that I don't have to baby or stay on top of. I always looked at JP rifles like race cars. In fairness I have not shot the JP in .308 just my friends guns in .223. What does the weight come in like on the JP and what is its accuracy level with match ammo or good reloads? Also does it use Knight/DPMS mags or Armalite mags. If it uses Armalite mags then no thank you.
Pat

The gas block has not been an issue for me. I set it when I first got the rifles and haven't touched it since (2 years) on my LRP-07 or CTR-02. I have twice as many rounds through the CTR-02. I looked at them as race cars too, but both have run perfectly for me.

Wt. is 9 lbs. 11 oz with the 18" bbl and PRS stock. The weight will probably be about 1-1.5 lbs. heavier than a similarly equiped PredatOBR.

I was able to get 5 shot sub MOA at 100 yds. with 168 gr. match ammo and 1.5" groups with WWB (I'm not a benchrest shooter). Accuracy will not be an issue with a JP LRP-07. It uses DPMS mags and I've run 5 different Magpul 308 mags in mine without problems.

[Alaskapopo]

Decided on a SCAR mostly due to the Larue not even being on the market yet. Once I get my tax return I will pick one up and post the results here.
Pat

[d90king]

Decided on a SCAR mostly due to the Larue not even being on the market yet. Once I get my tax return I will pick one up and post the results here.
Pat

Congrats! Looking forward to some AAR's. It appears that parts and mags are supposed to start to free up. Hopefully the rumors are accurate in that regard.

[Jbgill6535]

Curious if you have looked into the LWRC REPR as a possibility.

[Alaskapopo]

Curious if you have looked into the LWRC REPR as a possibility.

Its out of my price range. The SCAR is really pushing it but I found a place where I can get a LEO discount.
Pat

[Spooky130]

Now you could add the HK MR762 to your list... Except the fact it is running at least $3500 with $75-90 mags.

Spooky

[shootist~]

I have a feeling you will like the SCAR after you get it set up.

I run a pretty decent shooting FAL for 3-Gun heavy. A buddy with similar abilities to mine went to a POF, then a REPR and was staying a little behind me, despite both having better accuracy than my FAL. The REPR is amazingly accurate with surplus, btw. (We only shoot the local matches these days, but we do OK for old men.) Lots of flashers at 300 +/- meters and we sometimes shoot to 400+.

He found a deal on a used 17 that came with the factory PWS brake replaced with a FH. Between the horrible trigger and added recoil we could not get it to shoot accurately - at all.

He re-installed the factory muzzle device and added the G trigger and immediately started kicking my ass. The SCAR just works. He does run a magnified optic, however. It likes Aussie 7.62 surplus a little better than German and probably shoots around 1.25 MOA. I have no clue how well the irons work.

[Alaskapopo]

Yea I think I will like it. I want the new Vltor extended handguard, Giesselle trigger and some mags. For optics I am going to have to do some swaping with other rifles I have. It may end up with a 1-4 Tr24 or a Nightforce 2.5-10 combined with a Aimpoint R1 in an Larue Off set mount. Eventually I plan on getting a 1-6 or 1-8 Leupold for it.
Pat

[ryr8828]

You won't be disappointed. Buy mags now if you find some.

This was my favorite addition to my scar17:

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XPWSSRX&name=PWS+SRX+SCAR+Rail+Extension&groupid=259

http://www.aimsurplus.com/eos/images/product/xpwssrx.jpg

[shootist~]

On optics, if you get a chance check out the USO 1.5-6 DFP (dual focal plane), although they will be scarce right now. Mil based reticle in the FFP and a CQB reticle in the SFP. I bought mine - with thoughts for use on a SCAR 17 at some point in the future. So far I like it better than my NF 2.5-10x32 (moa/moa) for a single optic 3-Gun/Tactical setup.

I have a mini review on it in the optics forum.

[Littlelebowski]

I have a feeling you will like the SCAR after you get it set up.

I run a pretty decent shooting FAL for 3-Gun heavy. A buddy with similar abilities to mine went to a POF, then a REPR and was staying a little behind me, despite both having better accuracy than my FAL. The REPR is amazingly accurate with surplus, btw. (We only shoot the local matches these days, but we do OK for old men.) Lots of flashers at 300 +/- meters and we sometimes shoot to 400+.

He found a deal on a used 17 that came with the factory PWS brake replaced with a FH. Between the horrible trigger and added recoil we could not get it to shoot accurately - at all.

He re-installed the factory muzzle device and added the G trigger and immediately started kicking my ass. The SCAR just works. He does run a magnified optic, however. It likes Aussie 7.62 surplus a little better than German and probably shoots around 1.25 MOA. I have no clue how well the irons work.

Good post! How does the REPR compare to the SCAR on accuracy? I take it that the SCAR is more reliable?

[dirt_diver]

Its out of my price range. The SCAR is really pushing it but I found a place where I can get a LEO discount.
Pat

That's awesome. I'm really looking forward to one of your detailed rundowns with pics and video(?)...

[gamewarden]

I have a FDE SCAR 17 I currently use as a patrol rifle. However, we will be switching to 5.56 and so I will be moving back to my Noveske 12.5" SBR (NSR soon!) for a patrol rifle.

I really got the SCAR for work and am not sure I want to hold on to it now when a more accurate PredatOBR will be available this year. I want a rifle I can use for hunting big game as well as predators, long range shooting (1,000 yards...have range), and possibly heavy metal.

Any thoughts? I'm really thinking of selling it...and YES if I could have/afford both I would. This would be my first option!

SCAR 17 comments:
-trigger definitely gets better, after playing with the super SCAR trigger at SHOT I didn't think it was worth the cost for me.
-I like the iron sights
-swithced to a Surefire SCAR flash hider and recoil and muzzle rise were much more noticeable...will be putting the PWS back on. Flash hider is quieter though. (anybody know what surefire brake fits?)
-love the handling characteristics (weight and balance) of the SCAR as well as ergonomics.


My current setup is:
Irons-waiting for Leupold Mark6 1-6 (favorite scope at SHOT)
BFG VCAS padded sling with Universal Wire Loop with push button (for single point config)
Surefire M600 FDE light in Gear sector mount on top rail
Magpul selectors
Tango Down BG17 FDE
Tango Down VFG FDE
Tango Down SCAR pannels FDE all sizes
1 extra SCAR 17 mag-black

Maybe I should just have some patience and save up for the PredatOBR...I really hate waiting. However, everything I want is 6-12 months out it seems! (PredatOBR, NSR, new version Mystery Ranch 3 day assault, Leupold Mark6...!)



thanks for listening...

[shootist~]

Good post! How does the REPR compare to the SCAR on accuracy? I take it that the SCAR is more reliable?

As far as I know, both have run 100%, but then neither has been pushed hard.

No formal accuracy tests (like 10 shot groups) were done on either - in my presence anyway, but when getting a new Mk 4 MR/T installed & zeroed on the SCAR 17, it was holding very good on paper at 100, ~1.25" for 5 shot groups from the spotting scope. From the awkward shooting positions required in our matches is where it really seems to out-perform.

I was with him after he had REPR going. Shooting steel gongs at various distances, it was hitting everything out to 385 Meters with ease using an ACOG he had previously zeroed. To finish up the day, he went to 500 Meters where there are three plates hanging: 12", 8" and 5". One round at each produced 3 hits.

Nothing scientific here, but the REPR generates a lot of confidence - from the bench. It has a Geissele trigger as well, btw.

IMO, the SCAR just seems easier to shoot. This is based on our scores over a season of our longer distance matches. His hits came quicker and times went down from the first match with the SCAR; and stayed that way. It was very frustrating to be me. ;)

I personally have very little trigger time on either, but would pick the SCAR if given the choice. However, I have no doubt the REPR is the more mechanically accurate of those two specific rifles.

[thopkins22]

I had the opportunity to put some rounds through a SCAR 17 the other day, it was very nice and surprisingly accurate. Sporting a BABC, it was a total pussycat too.

The 16 doesn't do anything for me as AR's fill that roll adequately, but a 17 found it's way onto my list. The magazine situation is abysmal though, and the main reason that there are several projects in front of it.

Frankly besides the magazine situation, I see myself spending a lot on it to get it where I want it. I'd like the Tango Down latch and possibly even there charging handle, both of which were very nice on the one I saw. Then the PWS rail extension, Geisselle trigger...it starts to add up quick.

[lwrkeysfisher]

I bought a SCAR 17s a week or so ago and sold it this week on GB. Nothing wrong with the gun, it just wasn't what I was looking for.

I was looking for something with a little more juice than the 6.8 for hunting some larger fields but still light enough to carry if I got tired of sitting in a stand. I also wanted something that I could take to a DMR course and shoot respectably with.

So, I got the SCAR 17s (actually my 2nd) and loved it---ergonomics rock, cleaning was a breeze, the trigger was gritty but smoothed out after ~60 or so rounds. It also handled well, but with an optic (NF 2.5-10) it was still significantly heavier than my 6.8. And the accuracy, while fairly good, was by no means great--5rd groups with FGMM 175gr were 1.25" at 100yds and 20rd groups (2-3 seconds between shots) were about 2.25" @ 100yds.

All-in all the gun is like a supercharged Glock, super reliable (all brass fell at 4 o'clock 4-5' from me) and the operation from inserting a mag to charging was very smooth. In the end this rifle was begging for an Aimpoint, a case of NATO ammo, and a carbine course---not really what I am looking for. And it was just too much of a compromise for the money.

I originally planned to buy both the SCAR and the Larue Hybrid, but I just don't see a need for both given the slight difference in weight. I plan to buy the Larue when it hits and see how it does. I'm hoping the Larue will be just the right compromise between accuracy, reliability, and weight---we'll see.

All this said, I will buy a SCAR 16 in short order. These rifles are just too nice not to have one, and I think the 16 will be a much better fit for the way I plan to equip and shoot it. I hope this helps...

[jonconsiglio]

Good post! How does the REPR compare to the SCAR on accuracy? I take it that the SCAR is more reliable?

I had both the REPR and SCAR as well. I never warmed up to the REPR for some reason. Accuracy was similar but I much preferred the SCAR. I had a few failures to feed with the REPR with two separate magazines. I've never had a failure of any kind with either of my SCARs. I was surprised by the accuracy of the SCAR as I expected a little less out of it compared to the REPR.

I'm not sure why, but I had better success with first round hits out of the SCAR.

Also, I agree with everyone else that even with a flash hider, the SCAR has less felt recoil than many other 7.62 semi autos.

[QuietShootr]

I find the PWS to be effective at controlling recoil, but a little too blasty for my tastes. Even with a regular birdcage the SCAR doesn't recoil like an M14, for instance.

The mag situation might be easing up a little, I just scored four today at $40 each.

[Spooky130]

I find the PWS to be effective at controlling recoil, but a little too blasty for my tastes. Even with a regular birdcage the SCAR doesn't recoil like an M14, for instance.

The mag situation might be easing up a little, I just scored four today at $40 each.

Where did you find the mags?

I swapped the PWS for a BattleComp - about the same recoil and muzzle rise reduction but it didn't hurt my ears... You still know you are shooting a 16" 308 though.

[Alaskapopo]

[QUOTE=lwrkeysfisher;1239281]I
So, I got the SCAR 17s (actually my 2nd) and loved it---ergonomics rock, cleaning was a breeze, the trigger was gritty but smoothed out after ~60 or so rounds. It also handled well, but with an optic (NF 2.5-10) it was still significantly heavier than my 6.8. And the accuracy, while fairly good, was by no means great--5rd groups with FGMM 175gr were 1.25" at 100yds and 20rd groups (2-3 seconds between shots) were about 2.25" @ 100yds.

[QUOTE]

I would love better but I can live with those results. I have three uses in mind for this gun.
1. New patrol rifle with 155 or 110 grain TAP. and a barrier blind load for those times when I could use the .308's extra power.
2. precision rifle for LEO applications. To be fair with the average shot being inside 55 yards you don't need .5 moa. You do need a gun that is light and easy to manage.
3. Three gun rifle for heavy tac irons and heavy tac optics.

The accuracy you listed there will serve for those puposes. I would like more for the precision side of things but that will still do. I want reliablity above all else and that is why I dumped my Armalite AR10's a while back.
Pat

[lwrkeysfisher]

[QUOTE=lwrkeysfisher;1239281]I
So, I got the SCAR 17s (actually my 2nd) and loved it---ergonomics rock, cleaning was a breeze, the trigger was gritty but smoothed out after ~60 or so rounds. It also handled well, but with an optic (NF 2.5-10) it was still significantly heavier than my 6.8. And the accuracy, while fairly good, was by no means great--5rd groups with FGMM 175gr were 1.25" at 100yds and 20rd groups (2-3 seconds between shots) were about 2.25" @ 100yds.

[QUOTE]

I would love better but I can live with those results. I have three uses in mind for this gun.
1. New patrol rifle with 155 or 110 grain TAP. and a barrier blind load for those times when I could use the .308's extra power.
2. precision rifle for LEO applications. To be fair with the average shot being inside 55 yards you don't need .5 moa. You do need a gun that is light and easy to manage.
3. Three gun rifle for heavy tac irons and heavy tac optics.

The accuracy you listed there will serve for those puposes. I would like more for the precision side of things but that will still do. I want reliablity above all else and that is why I dumped my Armalite AR10's a while back.
Pat

Given what you want to do I think the SCAR is a great fit. One thing I didn't mention above is that I think the irons on this rifle are excellent, so that should help in Heavy Tac Irons. I would go with a lighter scope, as the NF was too heavy and threw off the C/G some. My scope with alloy rings weighs right at 23oz. I think the Accupoint TR24, TA11 ACOG, or Leupold HAMR would be about perfect---maybe the MK6 1-6 when it hits the market.

[Alaskapopo]

I just pulled the trigger on a used SCAR 17. It came with 3 mags and the owner said it had 360 rounds through it. I paid 2664 shipped. I am waiting for it to come in. I also ordered a Geisselle trigger for it, an extended rail from FN on gun broker, and a ergo grip modified to work with it. I also ordered a 5 pack of mags for $258 shipped. I am waiting to see if I like the but stock before ordering a new one. For optics I have a few options with what I have on hand and what I can swap from rifle to rifle. I could do a Aimpoint ML2 with a 3 x magnifier, a Trijicon TR24 1-4x and a Nightforce 2.5-10 x32 scope with a Aimpoint R1 in a Larue off set mount. I am going to put the Nightforce Aimpoint combo on it first and see how that works out. I am going to start saving up for a Leupold 1-6 or 1-8. Definately blew my cash on all this stuff. Tax return plus selling 3 guns. I will post pics when I get the gun and the stuff put together.
Pat

[R0CKETMAN]

I just pulled the trigger on a used SCAR 17. It came with 3 mags and the owner said it had 360 rounds through it. I paid 2664 shipped. I am waiting for it to come in. I also ordered a Geisselle trigger for it, an extended rail from FN on gun broker, and a ergo grip modified to work with it. I also ordered a 5 pack of mags for $258 shipped. I am waiting to see if I like the but stock before ordering a new one. For optics I have a few options with what I have on hand and what I can swap from rifle to rifle. I could do a Aimpoint ML2 with a 3 x magnifier, a Trijicon TR24 1-4x and a Nightforce 2.5-10 x32 scope with a Aimpoint R1 in a Larue off set mount. I am going to put the Nightforce Aimpoint combo on it first and see how that works out. I am going to start saving up for a Leupold 1-6 or 1-8. Definately blew my cash on all this stuff. Tax return plus selling 3 guns. I will post pics when I get the gun and the stuff put together.
Pat

You did good and you didn't blow your cash you invested it in some cool shit. Larue's delayed release pushed me in another direction as well.

Root'n for the NF

[chainring]

Well, Pat? Whatcha think? Got it up and runnin' yet? Waiting for a spiral-fluted REPR in a few weeks, myself, but I have finger-banged a Scar at the shop and they felt pretty good. Interested to hear you thoughts...

[Alaskapopo]

Well, Pat? Whatcha think? Got it up and runnin' yet? Waiting for a spiral-fluted REPR in a few weeks, myself, but I have finger-banged a Scar at the shop and they felt pretty good. Interested to hear you thoughts...

It will ship tomorrow the seller recieved my payment on Saturday. I am very excited to get it.
Pat

[JoeStrummer]

I bought a 17 last year as a birthday gift to myself, I did a lot of research on a 308 battle rifle and when I added all the variables up the 17 fit the bill.

I added a Super SCAR trigger, Tango Down charging handle & stock catch, a SS 1x4 in a ADM mount, a Surefire Scout Light (pic I posted is a old one and does not show the light/MOE grip) and a Magpul MOE fore grip, LaRue Rail Covers, and a padded VTac sling.

I just passed the 4000 round mark and have had zero issues with reliability. I have ran Radway Green, Malaysian, LC, and Portuguese surplus ammo. I have no problems keeping a 10 round group on a 8" bull at 100 and 200 yards.

I just got in 308 dies for my Dillon 550 and will be working up some reloads.

I hope you enjoy your SCAR as I have, only down side is mags right now.

[Microalign]

Not sure if it is a factor in your decision, but the PredatAR has a fluted chamber. We have a couple of them for our use as DMRs. They are pretty good rifles with good accuracy, reliability, and soft recoil. However, the fluted chamber reduces the case's ability to grip the walls of the chamber during firing and more stress is put on the case head. The case heads get pretty beat up, which will reduce the number of times that you can reload them. It could also lead to potential head space issues for the rifle in the future as more force impacts the bolt face.

[Darkop]

Not sure if it is a factor in your decision, but the PredatAR has a fluted chamber. We have a couple of them for our use as DMRs. They are pretty good rifles with good accuracy, reliability, and soft recoil. However, the fluted chamber reduces the case's ability to grip the walls of the chamber during firing and more stress is put on the case head. The case heads get pretty beat up, which will reduce the number of times that you can reload them. It could also lead to potential head space issues for the rifle in the future as more force impacts the bolt face.

Is the fluting similar to HK's or is it different? The only reason I ask is that with our MP5's and very hot +P+ ammo the cases would expand into the fluting and cause extraction issues. This was also experienced with an other department up here.

Sorry Pat, didn't want to derail your thread.

Until that day,
Darkop

[Microalign]

I'm not too familiar with H&K fluting to compare the two. The LaRue fluting runs the length of the case body at a diagonal twist......it appears to match the twist of the barrel rifling.

[Darkop]

I'm not too familiar with H&K fluting to compare the two. The LaRue fluting runs the length of the case body at a diagonal twist......it appears to match the twist of the barrel rifling.

OK, thank you for the info. It sounds like it is different than HK's fluting. Do you know how many flutes they are using?

Until that day,
Darkop

[Alaskapopo]

Scar should be here Friday according to tracking information. Wish I had time to sight it in before the 3 gun match this Sunday but I have to work.
Pat

[Microalign]

OK, thank you for the info. It sounds like it is different than HK's fluting. Do you know how many flutes they are using?

Until that day,
Darkop

I'll have to pull it out of the armory during the weekend and get the details for ya.

[Arkansas]

You are going to be very happy with your purchase. I've had/shot a lot of them and the Scar 17 is definitely my favorite. I can shoot my 17 sub moa with good ammo. I could go on and on, but I have yet to have a problem with mine. Just waiting for some of the 1-8x scopes (besides CQBSS) to come out. It is the beast of all beast! Congrats on the purchase and post some pics. :big_boss:

[Cold]

Of the two choices mentioned by the OP of what is currently on the market right now... SCAR 17.

[BigNog]

If you pick the 17 you will not regret it, my scars have been my favorite rifles by a huge margin, especially since I replaced the triggers with super scars.

[Alaskapopo]

After a weeks delay in shipping I got the SCAR in Yeasterday right after I got done working out and just before I had to got to work. So once I got home I stayed up late installing the trigger and the extended rail and the optics. Can barely wait to shoot it.
The only thing I did not like was how the gun feels cheap. I know plastics are the modern way to make a firearm. But it just feels different from what I am used to. Still excited to have it though.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Semi%20Auto%20rifles/SCAR17setupforpatrol.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Semi%20Auto%20rifles/SCARwithTR24.jpg
I also have Trijicon TR-24 in a Larue mount for it but one of the screw heads on the mount was stripped so I am going to have to get a friend of mine help me remove it so I can remove the scope and flip the mount around and mount it on the SCAR. This optic set up is for patrol and the TR024 will be for when I use the SCAR in three gun in TAC Heavy optics class. The irons will be for TAC Heavy Irons class.
Pat

[Darkop]

I have handled a SCAR light a couple of times and feel the same way about it. It just feels like cheap plastic. I don't particularly like the feel of the hand guards either. I have not shot one and that might change my mind about them.

Hope yours runs well,
Darkop

[feedramp]

Know the feeling... may be an FN thing. The FNP-45 leaves that same feeling in hand ("cheap") and, in that case, blocky as well.

Congrats on the SCAR :)

[carbinero]

Pat, great to hear of your progress. I recall sometime ago your transition away from the AR10 platform (correct?) Looking forward to hearing comparison info.

That fluted chamber is news to me, and seems strange...will need to investigate further.

[Alaskapopo]

Pat, great to hear of your progress. I recall sometime ago your transition away from the AR10 platform (correct?) Looking forward to hearing comparison info.

That fluted chamber is news to me, and seems strange...will need to investigate further.

So far I like it a lot better than either of my AR10's. Its reliable is the main thing that the AR10's were not. As for accuracy its much better than my AR10 carbine I had and with its more recent loads where i got 1.33 its getting close to as good as my GAP AR10 at 1 moa.
Pat

[carbinero]

Aw, that's great news. I can get over cheap feeling plastic, with results like that.

[Alaskapopo]

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/SCAR%2017%20targets/ScargroupsfrommidpointrestandNOveskepointofimpact.jpg

Will try some 175 grain Sierra's when I can find them in stock locally. Don't want to order 500 on line to find out the gun does not like them.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/SCAR%2017%20targets/SCARwithSierra.jpg

Here are some videos of me using the SCAR at last sundays three gun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTTOwrgsqlw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Plg7Sr50w4g

[carbinero]

For goodness sake, you don't need to apologize for the photoshop targets! Looks great. Further tightening of groups with load development will be icing on that scar-cake. Nice to see a reasonably priced, modern 308 platform: battle ready and accurate. Congrats!