View Full Version : Ratchet Charging System for the AK
MilitaryArms
01-23-12, 10:45
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzBoJQ7w-fo
I had a chance to inspect and shoot a working prototype of a new product offered by Parabellum Armament for the AK. This device gives the operator the ability to charge the AK rifle much like a HK 90 series rifle (91, 93, 94).
Thanks for the video, I have enjoyed some of the other videos you've posted in the past. Interesting piece of equipment, do you care to give your impressions on it since you were able to handle it? Is it worth it at around $160.00?
DeltaSierra
01-23-12, 11:02
This looks like the most thought out design I have seen so far.
If you get a chance to test one of these out, I am sure I wouldn't be the only one that would be interested to hear the results....
MilitaryArms
01-23-12, 11:11
I fired it on the range and it works very well. It is super simple and doesn't require any permanent modifications to your rifle or carrier.
This is a working prototype and they tell me the final product will be more refined.
I do like it, however I also have reservations.
First, I don't find the charging handle on the AK to be particularly awkward or difficult to use. No one seemed to complain about the location of the charging handle on the M1 Garand, M14 or M1 Carbine, but the same people will claim the AK is inferior because of the location of the charging handle. While the AK isn't as fast as an AR to reload, I don't think reloading speed is critical to ones survival if you're using cover and are well trained with your rifle. I've yet to met a combat vet who told me their life was saved by a lightening fast Magpul reload on their M16.
But as with anything there is room for improvement on any system including the AK. As long as this system doesn't reduce the reliability of the rifle or introduce fragile new failure points, I'll remain interested in it. But if it allows the ingress of debris into the rifle in such a way that you must be vigilant to prevent malfunctions in extreme conditions, I'll lose interest in it.
From what I've seen though it seems to be well thought out and it certainly worked as I expected it to in the limited time I had to spend with it on the range. I will get one and run it through the ringer to see how it holds up. I'll drop it, dunk it in mud and sand, fire the heck out of it to see how I like it.
lloydkristmas
01-23-12, 12:38
I remember a guy came up with a mod like this a few years back. But if I remember correctly it was basically a standard gas tube with a track cut in the side, and a charging handle somehow affixed to the gas piston. Never struck me as a solid/sound design, but these guys obviously have a little more budget/planning behind this offering. I'm with you though, I dont see anything wrong with existing AK charging handles, at least not enough to invest in something like this. Its nice to see the AK getting aftermarket attention though.
Sound opinion and I agree I've never had a huge problem with the AK charging handles either. You are also right about being properly trained too, no piece of equipment is going to improve someone enough to replace good training.
I remember a guy came up with a mod like this a few years back. But if I remember correctly it was basically a standard gas tube with a track cut in the side, and a charging handle somehow affixed to the gas piston. Never struck me as a solid/sound design, but these guys obviously have a little more budget/planning behind this offering. I'm with you though, I dont see anything wrong with existing AK charging handles, at least not enough to invest in something like this. Its nice to see the AK getting aftermarket attention though.
Dublin AK systems
http://www.dublinaksystems.com/
Actually, his Gen2 appears to be nearly the same. Perhaps he sold the design (or works for the other company? It even shares the same name...)
lloydkristmas
01-23-12, 17:46
Dublin AK systems
http://www.dublinaksystems.com/
Actually, his Gen2 appears to be nearly the same. Perhaps he sold the design (or works for the other company? It even shares the same name...)
Yep thats the one. Interesting.
Interesting modification.
Probably not something I'm interested in simply because I also have never had a problem with the right side charging handle, but it's more well thought out than most of the AK stuff I see.
I've been watching the Dublin system for some time. I was on a wait list, but I've since switched platforms.
I don't know why the AK needs a different charging handle location. If they want something to really improve on the design, it would be a last round bolt hold open device and bolt release. Moving the charging handle doesn't really solve this problem (in fact I'd rather have the original position...I never liked the HK91 style). Funny, however, that people rarely complain about the AK reciprocating charging handle but get their panties in a huge wad when the it comes to the SCAR, just throwing it out there....
Heavy Metal
02-18-12, 23:01
I hope they incorporate a rat tail feature into the charging handle ALA the FAL to prevent a debris opening .
I don't know why the AK needs a different charging handle location. If they want something to really improve on the design, it would be a last round bolt hold open device and bolt release. Moving the charging handle doesn't really solve this problem (in fact I'd rather have the original position...I never liked the HK91 style). Funny, however, that people rarely complain about the AK reciprocating charging handle but get their panties in a huge wad when the it comes to the SCAR, just throwing it out there....
An integral BHO to the AK design isn't really practical. The Yugoslovians tried it and ditched it later on. They later added a BHO after the last round fires to just the magazine, and with the Yugo BHO mags, the bolt just slams forward once you remove it. So BHO AK mags are the best you're going to do with the AK unless you modify the rifle and make it take non standard magazine. I suppose with the ratchet charging handle combined with Yugo BHO mags, the location of the charging handle is convenient enough that you could put your hand over the charging handle to prevent it from slamming forward, and use the other hand to eject the magazine, and insert a fresh magazine, then let go of the bolt and let it ride home. I hope I'm making sense.
buckshot1220
02-22-12, 18:24
Cool design. Nice to see a company actually put some real R&D into it. Depending on user reports, I may be interested in purchasing in the future to see how I like a left hand charge.
A lot of you raised the issue as to whether a left hand charge handle is necessary. Like many of you, I agree it may not be necessary. The only thing I can think of is that as people have begun to add optics above the top cover (either mounting to a side scope rail or some dogleg system) charging over the top has become occluded and difficult. That is just an assumption as mine still use the Ultimak rail.
It's not tough - roll to your preferred side (top or bottom) and charge over/under.
I have been working on over as I find it a bit easier to do, but I know many to go under with zero issues.
Magic_Salad0892
02-22-12, 20:49
IMHO this IS a better charging handle setup than the standard AK location, however, that would mean I have a bolt handle sticking out of BOTH sides of the gun.
Which would irritate me and would be pointless.
I'd probably have that shit milled off or something and re-finished.
Thankfully I'm not an AK guy. (Yet.)
For ME, this a solution looking for a problem... the AK charging handle is OK, better than this mod. Very strong, positive, easy and fast to use, no additional cuts or mods.
The problem is no bolt hold open/bolt release, and this is not going to change.
I've yet to met a combat vet who told me their life was saved by a lightening fast Magpul reload on their M16.
I think you hit the nail on the head there.
People want to turn their AKs into race guns. They forget the AKs primary virtues are low low cost, simplicity, and reliability.
Our legislators have taken the first benefit away, now we will destroy the rest?
Added cost, weight, and worst of all UNKNOWN RELIABILITY, to a now reliable platform. In return it offers tacti-cool appearance?
No thanks.
I remember a guy came up with a mod like this a few years back. But if I remember correctly it was basically a standard gas tube with a track cut in the side, and a charging handle somehow affixed to the gas piston. Never struck me as a solid/sound design, but these guys obviously have a little more budget/planning behind this offering. I'm with you though, I dont see anything wrong with existing AK charging handles, at least not enough to invest in something like this. Its nice to see the AK getting aftermarket attention though.
I believe you are talking about this guy:
http://www.dublinaksystems.com/
He has changed his system and it now looks like the one MAC suggests, or visa versa. (Or maybe parabellum is marketting it for Dublin?, who knows)
http://wasr-10.com/RCS-DIY
His original one was very crude, dare I say it appeared like it might have been engineered by Mikhail Kalashnikov himself. It was just a cut-out in the gas tube with a recess to hold the charging handle back.
I didn't like it then either.
I'd rather have a Galil style charging handle.
Added cost, weight, and worst of all UNKNOWN RELIABILITY, to a now reliable platform. In return it offers tacti-cool appearance?
No thanks.
I highly doubt that was their aim.
Anyone see a benefit to using this system if you're trained already on an HK91 and you're not concerned about battlefield pickup? Same manual of arms and you can keep the original bolt/charging handle.
I know a lot of people dont like Suarez but he may have a good point on consistent manual of arms, so it's ironic that he crapped on this idea. Guess he crapped on it before he started selling the PTR.
Anyone see a benefit to using this system if you're trained already on an HK91 and you're not concerned about battlefield pickup? Same manual of arms and you can keep the original bolt/charging handle.
None as unlocking a 91 will have an entirely different feel from an AK regardless of location. If you can't effectively transition from an HK to an AK then you probably need more general training with both weapons.
None as unlocking a 91 will have an entirely different feel from an AK regardless of location. If you can't effectively transition from an HK to an AK then you probably need more general training with both weapons.
Well I wouldn't say "can't", but you're right, wouldn't it be easier for someone new to both platforms if they had similar manual of arms? Sure the HK will be harder to charge, but at least similar location.
From a purely economy of motion point of view, isn't it faster to charge the rifle on the left side? You're saving the motion of having to take your left hand and move it to the right side or tilting the rifle.
Another way to think about it: assuming you're equally skilled on both platforms, which can you reload faster, your M4 or AK? Now the life-saving impact of a few milliseconds saved is debatable.
Does everyone have a problem with this setup because it's aftermarket? Because it looks like Molot is moving in that direction.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=V3bM0uM76Gc
I personally don't have a problem charging the AK, but I am new to the HK platform so I'm going to invent a mod to move the charging handle to the RIGHT side.:D
Well I wouldn't say "can't", but you're right, wouldn't it be easier for someone new to both platforms if they had similar manual of arms? Sure the HK will be harder to charge, but at least similar location.
From a purely economy of motion point of view, isn't it faster to charge the rifle on the left side? You're saving the motion of having to take your left hand and move it to the right side or tilting the rifle.
Another way to think about it: assuming you're equally skilled on both platforms, which can you reload faster, your M4 or AK? Now the life-saving impact of a few milliseconds saved is debatable.
Does everyone have a problem with this setup because it's aftermarket? Because it looks like Molot is moving in that direction.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=V3bM0uM76Gc
I personally don't have a problem charging the AK, but I am new to the HK platform so I'm going to invent a mod to move the charging handle to the RIGHT side.:D
I think if a person has a strong foundation with ARs, FALs, HKs and AKs they won't have any problems. As a wise old Sheriff once told me, revolvers are revolvers and automatics are automatics. And expecting to be able to use an automatic just like a revolver is not the automatics problem but yours.
I grew up on the HK series and have been shooting 91s from the age of 12. And even though it would be almost another 10 years before I got my first AK, I can still charge an AK much faster than I can unlock a 91 and I can charge a 91 faster than most people I know.
If you're really worried about it, just get a SCAR instead of an AK.
I think if a person has a strong foundation with ARs, FALs, HKs and AKs they won't have any problems. As a wise old Sheriff once told me, revolvers are revolvers and automatics are automatics. And expecting to be able to use an automatic just like a revolver is not the automatics problem but yours.
I grew up on the HK series and have been shooting 91s from the age of 12. And even though it would be almost another 10 years before I got my first AK, I can still charge an AK much faster than I can unlock a 91 and I can charge a 91 faster than most people I know.
If you're really worried about it, just get a SCAR instead of an AK.
Wow that's interesting, I guess because the HK's charging handle is folded, takes a bit more strength and the pull is longer. I'm faster on AK too, but I'm new to HK.
Thanks Steyr, I appreciate your insight this and your help on the HK platform.
Wow that's interesting, I guess because the HK's charging handle is folded, takes a bit more strength and the pull is longer. I'm faster on AK too, but I'm new to HK.
Thanks Steyr, I appreciate your insight this and your help on the HK platform.
Well specifically, it is because you are forcing locked rollers into an unlocked position rather than simply rotating a lugged bolt head. But the end result is more or less what you stated in that the HK is slightly more "involved." But if you have experience, it is no big deal. One of my favorite things to do when somebody says HKs are "hard to work with" is charge a 91 with a single index finger.
At any rate, if you wanted a faster AK a galil style charging handle would be a far more practical solution as somebody has already pointed out. Personally I don't even find that necessary.
crusader377
11-19-12, 09:46
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzBoJQ7w-fo
I had a chance to inspect and shoot a working prototype of a new product offered by Parabellum Armament for the AK. This device gives the operator the ability to charge the AK rifle much like a HK 90 series rifle (91, 93, 94).
Thanks for sharing. IMO it looks like a solution to a non-existent problem.
Anchor Zero Six
11-19-12, 12:09
Not debating if its needed or not but I think it would have a bit more appeal if they had integrated a pic rail or optic specific mount into the system.
IMO that would at least offer an added benifit instead of telling all of the Ultimak fans to go with a different optic location.
Doc. Holiday
11-19-12, 12:23
If it's not broken, don't fix it...
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