View Full Version : 16" SPR??
Hey guys, I posted a couple questions on a couple of other forums, but can't seem to get a real answer at least not a clear one.
I have a 16" Midlength AR with a Govt profile barrel. Recently I have been getting into some precision shooting and started thinking about building an SPR style rifle. Since money is tight I am thinking about configuring my current Middy AR into a SPR type setup.
My question is the barrel. Do I need to switch to a 18" Heavy SPR barrel with a Rifle length gas system OR will the 16" Govt prof barrel with Midlength gas system be ok?
I know there isn't much of a velocity difference between the two, but what about accuracy? I will primarily be shooting standard 55grn ball at 100-300yds maybe an occasional trip to the 500yd range a few hours from where I live (sucks living in Florida where good ranges are non exsistant)
Any input would be helpful. Thanks guys.
The ability of a barrel to shoot what we commonly refer to as accurately is not determined by the length of the barrel, but rather by it's method and quality of manufacture.
Use your 16" and when you can out shoot that barrel consider upgrading to something better suited to your needs at that time.
Barrel, trigger, sights and ammunition choice; in that order make the most impact on your "accuracy" quest. However most barrels will shoot extremely well given the others!
A 16" SPR is a RECCE.
A SPR barrel is not a heavy profile it is a mid-weight profile.
Your current barrel will not give the accuracy of of a SPR or RECCE. But neither will the ammo you plan to use.
If you want to get more precision it would make sense to get a SS precision barrel. A RECCE barrel seems to be the best all around barrel for this.
I use Prvi 75gr. ammo in my Noveske SPR. It is under 50 cents a round and gives good accuracy.
But at the ranges I am shooting (100m-300m max) will I really notice a difference by going with a 18" or 20" SS match barrel? There is one range 2 hours away with a 1,000 range, but for the most part I am only able to shoot 100m-200m.
Accuracy wise right now I am shooting about a 1 to 2 inch MOA at 100m with my current config. That may improve with a free float rail, but I was concerned with the rigidity of the barrel affecting accuracy. The thicker heavy barrels do not have the barrel flex that the contoured barrels do and I was curious if I needed to go heavy or not. I'm probably answering my own questions here, but I'm trying to talk myself out of having to buy a new barrel. lol
Are you happy with what your gun is doing?
If so, then don't change anything. If it lacks the accuracy you want then get something new.
I would not get a 20" barrel. I have an 18" Noveske SPR barrel. I shoot it at 500yards max. If I had it to do agian i might buy a Noveske 16" recce barrel instead.
davidjinks
01-23-12, 14:48
OP
Take into consideration the cost of getting into precision shooting. Good glass, good ammo, trigger and barrel.
If all you're wanting to do is shoot cheap ball 1-200 yards, I'd say keep it simple and inexpensive and not even go the SPR route.
If you're willing to commit to get the most out of the shooting...
RECCE style setup:
16" Douglas barrel (Or equivalent)
Good glass (I'm partial to Night Force)
Good ammo (MK262 shines past 300 yds.)
Good trigger (I'm partial to Geissele)
I'm not saying that those are the end all be all. I'm also definitely not a SME when it comes to precision shooting. However, if you're looking for some recommendations, those are mine.
Hey guys, I posted a couple questions on a couple of other forums, but can't seem to get a real answer at least not a clear one.
I have a 16" Midlength AR with a Govt profile barrel. Recently I have been getting into some precision shooting and started thinking about building an SPR style rifle. Since money is tight I am thinking about configuring my current Middy AR into a SPR type setup.
My question is the barrel. Do I need to switch to a 18" Heavy SPR barrel with a Rifle length gas system OR will the 16" Govt prof barrel with Midlength gas system be ok?
I know there isn't much of a velocity difference between the two, but what about accuracy? I will primarily be shooting standard 55grn ball at 100-300yds maybe an occasional trip to the 500yd range a few hours from where I live (sucks living in Florida where good ranges are non exsistant)
Any input would be helpful. Thanks guys.
As mentioned above by TMS951, with your choice of ammo, a better barrel will not be cost effective. Just my $0.02 worth.
Thanks for all the input guys. Going to add the free float rail I bought and run it as is for a coupl weeks and make a decision then. If I do go with a new barrel I think I'm leaning toward the 18" with rifle length gas system. That seems to be the one the competition guys are going for these days.
Met with a gentleman that recently swapped out a whole mess of 18" barrels for 16" ones after they were shot out during deployment.
Thanks for all the input guys. Going to add the free float rail I bought and run it as is for a coupl weeks and make a decision then. If I do go with a new barrel I think I'm leaning toward the 18" with rifle length gas system. That seems to be the one the competition guys are going for these days.
FWIW,
I have achieved amazing results from a 14.5 DD. I will soon find out about short noveske 10in and I think it will be just as good.
I think, if I read you clearly, a shorter barrel will do your work and more. You just need to change a few things, as stated above by davidjinks.
ColdDeadHands
01-24-12, 08:51
You will notice a difference in accuracy between your barrel and a good SS 16" Barrel. I don't think you'll find a difference between a 16"SS & 18" SS barrel of the same brand. Usually SS barrels are more accurate then a chrome lined barrel.
So what about heavy vs contoured? If I get a SS 16 or 18 should I go heavy or is contoured ok?
I'm with the rest of the crowd here, you have some work to do before I think you need to start looking at new barrels.
You need better ammo, you could probably use a better trigger, glass and a FF tube. But before you go spending money make sure that the gun is the limiting factor. Usually tightening up the big nut behind the gun does wonders for accuracy.
ColdDeadHands
01-24-12, 09:41
A medium contour barrel will be fine just make sure you get a quality barrel like Douglas, BCM or Noveske. As others mentioned, the trigger, ammo & optic are also very important if you are going for precision.
Shooterman017
01-24-12, 12:22
I was in the same boat as you honestly. I traded my 700Tactical for a Sun Devil lower, some upper, and a DD 16" CHF Barrel and EXO/FailZero Bolt/Carrier. My intent was at first to do a 2-upper rifle, one with a 16" or pinned/welded 14.5" for general blasting, and an 18" for an SPR-ish/precision configuration.
There isn't anything special going on with the internals, a standard crap trigger, buffer and spring from the local FFL, and a Magpul ACS. I wrenched on an A2 birdcage after shooting these 5 round groups.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/aleccoin/AR_4.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/aleccoin/AR_2.jpg
And a shitty 10 round group for good measure, with the A2 on the muzzle:
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/aleccoin/AR_21.jpg
I was shooting Southwest Ammo 69gr SMK RunNGun loads. This was at 100 yards, from prone on a bipod.
I will not be investing in a new upper, 18" barrel, etc.etc. I will end up investing in a Geiselle SSA and dedicated glass for this weapon instead.
I say take what you have, and see where it is before you make any more decisions. I am VERY glad I did. You may only have to tweak some things instead of going balls out on it.
Edit: sit down and READ on the proper way to shoot a semi-auto in a precision setting. I dry fired the shit out of my 522 (every day for a while) and really focused when I was shooting it, and then, when I got behind the AR when it was done, my mind was blown and I was left speechless with the result. I guess I did it right. I can tell you that I sat down and read for hours everywhere I could on the right way to handle an AR...trigger control and follow through especially...
If you're not going beyond 300m, a match 10.5" barrel will keep up just fine, don't think you need to go 20" for that.
Intermediate contoured SS 16" barrel is still what I'd consider to be 'the' answer for precision rifles that aren't boat anchors. Noveske, HighCaliberSales, Centurion, BCM are worth a look if you want a super solid sub-MOA capable rifle out of the box.
SM017 has it right - good glass, and a good trigger will do a lot, and quality ammunition makes the biggest difference.
Seawolf -
Define your goal: what standard of precision/accuracy do you want to attain? How big are the targets and at what distances? Is this for 3 gun? Prairie dogs? 1 hole groups far, far, far away?
Apart from skill (the most important variable), here's the order in which I would approach your goal, considering that you are working with a limited budget.
-Ammo (you'd be surprised how good your AR15 pattern rifle can be when using match quality ammo; it requires no alternations to the rifle). 55 grn ball will not suffice for your goal.
-Optic and mount (best stuff you can afford, recommend saving and waiting until you can buy good stuff, as opposed to something cheap that will not perform)
-Trigger
-Free float the barrel
By your own assessment you seem to be shooting what you have well. 1-2" groups at 100 aren't bad. My suggestion is to get some better ammo. 55gr ball is not accuracy ammo. Don't need to go batshit crazy and buy mk262, but some decent ammo like PPU match will help greatly. Free float your barrel and shoot the absolute crap out of it. Once you melt that baby them get a better tube. The barrel profile really won't kill you in the accuracy department so long as you are doing slow fire. Shoot fast and it will heat up and do wierd things. Shot slow and you can make it work. Yes, it will whip more than a brick shithouse barrel, but so long as it does it consistently you're going to be OK. Also, start figuring out which organ you can part with so you can buy good glass. Hard to hit what you can't see.
No Shit! Buying barrels and rails is easy. Trying to fund a better than average scope requires a bank loan.
http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww232/Kyle_OA/39f52875.jpg
This was my interpretation of a 16" SPR, its patterned off a Mk12 Mod 0 SPR. I sold off the upper because I was able to find a real deal Mod 0 upper. I'm going to build some thing similar in the future though.
The limiting factor with your setup is going to be ammo first then probably the trigger then the barrel. There isn't much sense in upgrading to a quality SS barrel if you are still going to shoot 55gr ammo and use a mil spec trigger. The scope on the upper pictured is a Vortex Viper 2-7x, I was able to get it for $179 because vortex was discontinuing the 2-7x model vs $350 when it was in production. It's a hell of a scope for the money.
You don't have to spend mint to have an AR that is light enough to move yet still capable of making hits pretty far off. I just finished this one and so far have only run cheap ammo through it but IMHO it is plenty accurate for crap rounds, I cant wait to see what it does with some good ammo.
http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i365/usmc_1371/arscoped.jpg
I did a range report in the custom build fourm.
its nothing special just a BCM 16" mid SS upper on a LMT lower with the LMT two stage trigger wich I wouldn't spend money on again. Get a Gessel hands down worth every penny. The scope is a Leupold 4.5x14 LR in a Leupold mount.
Range report and specs here https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=101372
zombie killer
03-29-12, 23:26
I have an 18in. Mid-length and I think a 16 will work fine with what you desire. The first thing you should save up for is quality scope rings. I'm a fan of Larue. Then get your glass, I'm in the process I saving up for quality optics myself. As far as ammo I have had good results with 55gr. Aim surplus has a good deal on PMC 62gr for what it's worth.
Hope this helps, have fun.
Note that there's some "official" support for going to a 16" precision AR. The "Mod Holland" was a modified Mk12 Mod0 with the barrel cut down to 16"; they proved effective enough. At the same time, NSW generally rejected the 18" SPR in favor of the 16" Recce rifle.
Don't sweat the length as much as the barrel itself...and of course, how you treat it. Get a good trigger and barrel, use good ammo, and work on it until the rifle isn't outshooting you.
Note that there's some "official" support for going to a 16" precision AR. The "Mod Holland" was a modified Mk12 Mod0 with the barrel cut down to 16"; they proved effective enough. At the same time, NSW generally rejected the 18" SPR in favor of the 16" Recce rifle.
Don't sweat the length as much as the barrel itself...and of course, how you treat it. Get a good trigger and barrel, use good ammo, and work on it until the rifle isn't outshooting you.
Something like this? http://www.stsgear.com/pics/securedownload-1.jpeg
Something very close to that....veeeery close...in fact, that's it :)
I impulse bought a blem BCM BHF upper with a 12" La Rue rail...
What kind of difference in accuracy could I expect between this new impulse buy and my regular BCM mid 16"? (Both are 16" mids).
BrigandTwoFour
06-02-14, 23:21
I impulse bought a blem BCM BHF upper with a 12" La Rue rail...
What kind of difference in accuracy could I expect between this new impulse buy and my regular BCM mid 16"? (Both are 16" mids).
Holy resurrection!
The better question is: are you a good enough shooter to be able to tell the difference between the two, and will your ammunition choice show that difference?
Holy resurrection!
The better question is: are you a good enough shooter to be able to tell the difference between the two, and will your ammunition choice show that difference?
To be perfectly honest, I have no idea.
I don't currently own any scoped rifles, so I only ever really shoot irons and RDS. And that being said, I shoot general ammo, nothing match due to costs. I guess I've never taken an object test. I'd like to think that I'm decent with a rifle though.
I was thinking that this upper I impulse bought would be my first rifle with a dedicated scope, so I can learn how to use and shoot with them. Maybe the question I should be asking is if this new BHF upper will serve me well as an introduction to scoped shooting...?
(I realize that the skill of shooting is a software and not a just-throw-all-the-hardware at it type of challenge).
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