Tips on choosing an Eberlestock pack [Archive]

maximus83

01-23-12, 16:05

I'm looking for some tips on choosing a good 3+ day pack, something that would serve for backpacking and hunting, but can also be set up as a 3-day go-bag (GB) when not using it actively.

Initially I was looking at getting another Maxpedition model (I just bought a Falcon 2 as a get-home bag, based on on another thread in this section). However, from some other threads here (see the following), I ran across the Eberlestock brand, and liked it because their designs are so robust, well thought-out, and they integrate a long gun efficiently into the pack system.

Some threads on Eberlestock packs:
* https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=27933
* https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=645
* https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=3164
* https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=32336

Has anyone had experience with using any of the Eberlestock packs as a good, all-purpose 3-day pack system for backpacking or a GB? What are the pros and cons, and what models would you recommend for general use, something in the 2500 to 3000 cu. in. capacity range, and something that can attach a long gun carrier?

Here are a couple of designs that I looked at and found interesting, after calling and talking with them:

Gunslinger 2 (http://eberlestock.com/G2%20Gunslinger%20II.htm)
Little Brother (http://eberlestock.com/J79%20Skycrane%20II.htm#G1 pack)
X4 Hispeed (http://eberlestock.com/X4%20HiSpeed%20Pack.htm)
X3 Lodrag (http://eberlestock.com/X3%20Lodrag%20Pack.htm)

I think of these, the X3 and the Little Brother look the most interesting. These are newer designs, but both are relatively "lighter" 3-day packs that have a lot of flexibility and expansion capability built in. The Little Brother, especially, can really add a lot of attachments in addition to a scabbard, so it can add on as much stuff as you need to the base pack.

Would really appreciate hearing other thoughts on these, especially from folks who have tried them and compared them to other good options out there.

Bluedreaux

01-24-12, 03:32

I bought one of the larger Estock packs for a pack in hunting trip. Sold it before the trip after training with it some.

It's important with heavy loads to keep the weight sucked up close to your back. The built in scabbard creates a built in sag with heavy loads. And if you use the scabbard but cinch it up tight you lose the ability to quickly un-scabbard your rifle.

With lighter loads you won't have as much of a problem and YMMV.

maximus83

01-24-12, 10:12

Interesting (but useful) feedback. I had heard that these are some of the premier packs available, but it sounds like your experience wasn't as good. I've been wondering what the user experience is like when you are fully loaded out, with a rifle in the scabbard.

It seems like everybody is interested in these, but not that many actually HAVE them. At least not here. Maybe there's a bit of a yellow flag in that fact.

TN_Warrior

01-24-12, 15:43

I have the Halftrack from Eberlestock. I've used it religiously overseas and in training since 2009. I love Eberlestock packs. I've never used any of the packs that you want, but Eberlestock is a good pack especially if you wanted to carry another rifle.

My next pack will be a Kifaru pack. I've purchased there small E&E pack and like it. Now it's time to save.

Bluedreaux

01-24-12, 16:39

FWIW, I had a J107, which is much larger than what you're looking at. I was planning on packing gear and a boned out deer, so made my decision based on a lot more weight than what you might be thinking about. Get one with their wide belt and they're very comfortable packs.

Unless you're packing sandbags, you probably couldn't fit enough into a 2500 ci pack to notice a lot of sagging. I think the Estock packs would really shine in that size range.

I got a Mystery Ranch for heavy loads and have heard good things about Kifaru as well.

ETA: I think you'd be waaay ahead of any Maxpedition with an Estock.

Tzoid

01-26-12, 22:17

Just make sure you will actually have a use for one. I pulled the trigger for a GunSlinger 2 and used it one time and absolutely HATED it. I sold it and took a loss for buying something I thought I would like. Loaded with gear , Ammo , Mags and a Carbine it probably weighed 75lbs or more.

I thought it would be a good pack to haul my gear at 3 gun Matches but I'll bring a wagon or make a Tactical Stroller..:sarcastic:

Lone_Ranger

01-30-12, 00:33

I've heard the same about the ones with the built in scabbard. A friend says the rifle shifts in the scabbard when you run, and carries the weight too high.

I bought a Destroyer, and haven't field tested it, yet. It's a standard pack. You can strap a rifle to the outside if necessary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=js9nUVRSfBg

nobody knows

01-30-12, 14:01

There is a new shop in the mall that sells tac gear and packs. I was in there the other day and noticed the same thing with the packs that have the built in scabbard. It definitely pushed the main load to fare off of your back. Although I did have it fully loaded or anything but it was noticeable just with the stuff they had in the display model.

Sticks

02-01-12, 04:39

Bluedreaux

02-01-12, 16:03

I never really loved or hated mine, it just didn't do what I needed. My MR Crew Cab carries heavy loads better, which is what I needed at the time. But the CC is heavy and the super thick belt and shoulder straps are overkill for most stuff.

TZoid mentioned 75#, which is heavy regardless of what pack you're using. Only lots of stairs will make that comfortable, although some packs obviously carry better than others.

For day trips or moving gear and a rifle from your trunk to a patrol car I think they'd be ideal. When I was on a long gun for my old department I always thought an Estock would be perfect for carrying all my kit in the trunk.

maximus83

02-03-12, 10:51

Dragk913

02-03-12, 20:35

It's almost a 50/50 split on the Eberlestock w/scabbard. People either love 'em, or hate 'em. Hard to make a decision on a $400 pack with that kind of spread.

I am also currently pondering either a G4 operator or a Phantom.

Would like to hear more details on the love/hate.

I have a G4M Operator. Unfortunately, I have only used on three occasions. One ruckmarch (about 50lbs), one ruck-run (about 40lbs), and one backpacking trip (about 35lbs).
On both rucks, I didn't have a rifle in the scabbard, but I did carry an AR15 on the backpacking trip.

Unfortunately, I don't love the pack. I feel that the load rides too far away from my back (rifle or no rifle, straps all cinched down completely) and sags. The load lifter straps don't pull the pack up nearly as much as they should, either. Unfortunately, I do not feel that the scabbard system is the way to go.

I love Eberlestock for all the cool pockets, straps, etc. but I don't think I can recommend this pack to anyone.

Sticks

02-04-12, 06:10

I have a G4M Operator. Unfortunately, I have only used on three occasions. One ruckmarch (about 50lbs), one ruck-run (about 40lbs), and one backpacking trip (about 35lbs).
On both rucks, I didn't have a rifle in the scabbard, but I did carry an AR15 on the backpacking trip.

Unfortunately, I don't love the pack. I feel that the load rides too far away from my back (rifle or no rifle, straps all cinched down completely) and sags. The load lifter straps don't pull the pack up nearly as much as they should, either. Unfortunately, I do not feel that the scabbard system is the way to go.

I love Eberlestock for all the cool pockets, straps, etc. but I don't think I can recommend this pack to anyone.

Do you think that a pack with the scabbard mounted to the back would be better?

I would have thought that w/o a rifle in the scabbard the pack would have cinched down enough to collapse the scabbard and ride nice and tight.

By sagging, I presume you mean at the bottom? Would a frame support have cured this, or is this a matter of too much pack, not enough filling for the pack to work well?

Dragk913

02-04-12, 07:16

Do you think that a pack with the scabbard mounted to the back would be better?

I would have thought that w/o a rifle in the scabbard the pack would have cinched down enough to collapse the scabbard and ride nice and tight.

By sagging, I presume you mean at the bottom? Would a frame support have cured this, or is this a matter of too much pack, not enough filling for the pack to work well?

The scabbard can cinch down fairly tight, but there's still a couple inches of material before your main pack starts. I don't know if a rifle mounted on the back of the pack would be any better. Really, I would like to try a rifle mounted to the side of the pack. You would have to find a way to compensate for the pull on that one side though..

A real frame would definitely help, but I believe the sagging (yes, at the bottom) is caused by the scabbard keeping the weight of the pack away from your body.

duece71

07-14-12, 08:33

The scabbard can cinch down fairly tight, but there's still a couple inches of material before your main pack starts. I don't know if a rifle mounted on the back of the pack would be any better. Really, I would like to try a rifle mounted to the side of the pack. You would have to find a way to compensate for the pull on that one side though..

A real frame would definitely help, but I believe the sagging (yes, at the bottom) is caused by the scabbard keeping the weight of the pack away from your body.

Sorry for the necropost, I have a LGS that has the Gunslinger 2, Little Brother, Lo Drag and the Gunrunner in stock. Eberlestock shows an internal frame that can be bought from their website and am wondering if this would help with the load shift. I am going to take some measurements of various rifles that I have and go and take a harder look at these packs. My needs are just hiking/hunting and travel to/from the range.

Richard Belott

08-01-12, 21:11

You guys saved me some money I was wanting to pull the trigger on a eberlestock gunslinger thanks for the reviews.

Sticks

08-02-12, 04:46

The G4 operator does make a great range bag, but I would have to agree that the load does sit a bit far back with that scabbard.

I have not used it as a 3 day pack yet, I have a tendency to over pack and need to get that under control before I try.

When you are starting out with a pack that already weighs 10 pounds, that bitch can get awful heavy by the time you start adding what you think is necessary.

Glad I got a deal on it.

JohnnyC

08-02-12, 14:19

I think people fail to realize that any pack with a scabbard mounted inboard as opposed to the side will cause the pack to sag. Regardless of manufacturer, you are pushing the pack farther away from you whenever you put your weapon between you and the pack. It can help to cinch the pack tight, but then you remove quick access to the weapon. That may or may not be a problem. It isn't for me as my primary will always be in my hands, and the precision rifle would be tight in the pack. If my precision rifle is my primary, my AR will be tight in the pack. Neither of which require quick access to the packed rifle. For hunting, it would be in the pack for hiking as I don't expect to make any shots while in the move, or in my hands and there is no problem as the pack is cinched tight.

The only system that may alleviate this, and I don't own one so I can't comment, is the Mystery Ranch pack with it's external frame. However, it is an expedition type pack, not a small 3-day type. It's also really effing expensive at just a couple hundred shy of a grand.

Richard Belott

08-02-12, 18:24

So how is the quality of the Eberlestock packs I am loking for a 3 to 4 day bug out pack.

duece71

08-02-12, 19:05

So how is the quality of the Eberlestock packs I am loking for a 3 to 4 day bug out pack.

I have used mine on a couple of hikes and the quality of the stiching and construction seems top notch. I loaded mine up (even with a "faux" AR) to 30lbs and it was comfortable. I felt that it actually helped my posture during the hike, alleviating some annoying sore spots. The load does ride much further back but not uncomfortably so, for me anyway. FWIW.

Richard Belott

08-04-12, 10:47

Thanks for the info

Benito

02-20-15, 19:55

Having gone through numerous threads (on this forum and others), my take-away is that Eberlestock packs are:

- pricey
- the only solution if you are looking for a pack that carries a rifle internally (vs just strapping it to the back or side)
- heavy
- entails a compromise of the load moving around if the scabbarb is not cinched down tight, or less load movement at the expense of quick access to the rifle

I am basically looking for a way to carry as much range crap as I can while keeping my hands free for other tasks.
That means rifle(s), spotting scopes, ammo, log book, mags, multitool, targets, shooting mat, etc. etc.
I am looking at either the Phantom or Operator. I don't need quick access to the rifle. My questions to guys who have, or used to have, either one of these two bags are:
- do the compression straps compress both the main compartment AND the scabbard, or just the main compartment?
- given my intended uses, is the bag worth the money? Any caveats not already mentioned that I should be aware of?
- are there any other options to carry a rifle (it has to be covered completely - for a variety of reasons, legal and otherwise) and gear on the back?

Thanks.

Sticks

02-21-15, 05:00

I like mine (G4 operator), but yes, it starts out heavy, and all you do is add weight. I used it for the last 2 training classes that I took (carbine), and I suspect that the second class it weighed out at near 70# with all my gear for the class plus 20 loaded mags and another 250 rounds on stripper clips (stayed at home so it only had one day's worth of gear). One class was out of town and I had planned on using it for my overnight travel stuff as well, but that was an epic fail. It all fit, but the 1500 rounds of rifle, 500 pistol, spare pistol, 2 liters of water, food...I was in shape but I could barely get it mounted and gods help me if I went down.

The compression straps on the operator do both the scabbard and pack/compartments at once. The scabbard is LARGE so if you have a small rifle in it, the center is going to sag outwards. A large rifle will fill the void, but as noted - the bulk of your load gets pushed farther outboard.

The quality of the build is thus far for me outstanding for the weight that I have had in it, and used both the shoulder straps (properly adjusted according to their recommendations) and the side carry handles.

You already mentioned other ways to carry a rifle. Side scabbard, outright strap it to the side, or wear it slung across your chest (depending on type of rifle you are using). Depending on your location where you would be wearing the pack would dictate the legality of the transport of the rifle. Not sure that I would go for a training hike in a urban/rural area with my rifle slung across my chest or strapped to the outside of the pack (panic the sheep).

Trial and error according to your planned usage insofar as what you carry in it, and how you pack it. Weight can get out of control real fast. I all ready have an inherent tendency to over pack. Better to have it and not need it, than ...aw shit.

Savior 6

02-21-15, 06:18

My first intro to an Eberlestock was the Phantom without the scabbard and then a Gunslinger 1. The Phantom was nice for packing mission essential gear but would fill up quick and proved to be a nice compliment to the Gunslinger when using them as a team.

When running into info-overload deciding on which pack I would buy, I picked the G4 Operator. The pack was much easier to load with gear but did become a bit cumbersome with the attached/dedicated rifle pack. It made it noticeably harder to maneuver with and provided me with my fastest fast-rope time ever. Luckily I kept my ankles.

Part of my problem was that I tried to get the pack that had the most options, thinking it would provide me with the most versatility. I then realized that Eberlestocks are better picked as "mission specific" bags so finding a "catch-all" may not be in the cards. However looking back I feel that I would now pick the Phantom even though it fills up fast, as it can be used a backpack, a gunpack, or a dragbag (scabbard) most effectively.

Now a buddy of mine has the X1A1 and I swear I can sprint in that thing. However the scabbard is meant for a rifle stock and not AR/MSR friendly. Tried the the new LoDrag at a local shop and it seemed awesome but that was with no weight or rifle in the pack.

Benito

02-21-15, 17:38

Thanks for the feedback.
I am re-thinking the Operator, since the weight of a full pack that size might be pushing the limits of my uses.
The Phantom seems to be a happy middle ground, but I am also now looking at the X1E (I like that it has no MOLLE, as it is from their hunting line):
http://www.eberlestock.com/X1E%20Euro.htm

and the X3-LoDrag looks OK (it has MOLLE, but whatever):
http://www.eberlestock.com/X3%20Lodrag%20Pack.htm

They are about the same size.
My question is about the scabbard that comes with the X1E and the X-3 LoDrag. Is it the same size as the one that comes with the Phantom, Gunslinger II and Phantom? Those come with the A4SS, I believe. I will give Eberlestock a call on Monday to see what info I can get, but am, curious on any feedback/thoughts from you guys as well.

Savior 6, the X1E (E is for Euro - no homo, lol) which is described as:
"The X1E was developed for the European market, where our customers are primarily gun hunters. The X1A1 has been extremely popular in Scandinavia, and we've been asked for a refined rifle hunter's version... which sounded like a good idea, so we made it!"
It looks like the scabbard is bigger, but I don't know exactly how big, and whether there is a top enclosure.

The biggest rifle I have right now is an Armalite AR-10, 16", with a NF NXS 2.5-10x42. I need the scabbard to enclose the rifle on top and bottom.
Also, I would like that the compression straps cinch down the scabbard, so that pack doesn't flop around without the rifle inside.

On a final, somewhat related note, I really have no use for packs with MOLLE on the outside (on the inside, perhaps, but not really). Attaching shit to the outside, far away from the body is just asking for back pain, snag hazards and trouble.

Sevcrist

02-22-15, 13:46

I've been pondering an Eberlestock also and like you it's primary purpose would be to carry everything in one bag to the range. FYI, Kifaru does make a pack called the Mountain Rambler that has an integrated scabbard, but it doesn't appear to be as user friendly as the Eberlestock packs. I think for your purposes, the Phantom or Gunslinger II would work best. The Phantom has the long side pockets for of course long objects, the Gunslinger does not have those. The Phantom has a scabbard that will fold up at the bottom but there is no buckle for it, like the Gunslinger has. I think the Gunslinger has a better knick knack pouch to keep your smalls organized. As far as the frame is concerned, the Gunslinger has the ApexII frame which basically is a tubular aluminum frame, or you can switch it out for the Gossamer frame. The Gossamer is a polycarbonate frame. From what I can tell, the Phantom has some sort of aluminum stay system for the frame.

There are of course several Youtube videos on the above packs.

Benito

02-24-15, 18:17

OK, still doing research, but I got off the phone with Eberlestock and here's the run-down of what they told me:
- The Phantom does indeed lack the buckle to stow away the scabbard, but the compression straps will compress the scabbard and the space that the scabbard occupied, if it is removed.
- The Phantom's scabbard is 2" narrower than the full-size A4SS weapon carrier
- The X1E (Euro) has a scabbard that measures 34" x 7" x 3". Its compression straps do NOT encompass the scabbard.
- THe X3 Lo-Drag has a scabbard that measures 34" x 10" x 3". Its compression straps do encompass the scabbard.

I forgot to ask them other question and specifics. Will do so tomorrow and post here.