USN SEALS rescue hostages in Somalia including one American... [Archive]

CarlosDJackal

01-25-12, 08:34

Reagans Rascals

01-25-12, 08:44

Kudos to the SEALs. :thank_you2:

Has anyone noticed that what used to be considered as "Black Ops" have received a lot more publicity over the past few years than before? I'm not sure if that is a good thing or not.

On the one hand the "Silent Warriors" deserve a lot of accolades for the jobs they perform. But on the other hand, if I were the enemy I would capture every details about these Ops in order to identify their TTPs.

I wonder how the members of the Special Operations Community feel about this new found fame?

They don't like it.

SEALs pride themselves on no one ever knowing their successes, only their failures. This new found fame is probably something they are uncomfortable with, especially considering every news agency is chomping at the bit to run another story about them taking down some terrorist or Pirate ring.

These are the kind of guys that don't like or need to be recognized when they do a good job, they do it right because its inside them, its pure integrity.

I think we need to mine the coast of Somalia..... sure 1 or 2 pirate boats will slip out.... but it will greatly reduce the amount of hijackings... it'll also keep traffic at bay thus reducing the risk of vessels to get hijacked.

Mines are cheaper and far more effective than keeping a battle group on station for prolonged periods.

That or put a series of barges right off the coast to serve as security platforms.... just park a bunch of swingin dicks on platform right off shore about 5-10 miles apart with thermal sensors and high caliber weapons, with nothing to do but look for pirates.... and this problem will take care of itself in no time.

CarlosDJackal

01-25-12, 08:50

They don't like it.

SEALs pride themselves on no one ever knowing their successes, only their failures. This new found fame is probably something they are uncomfortable with, especially considering every news agency is chomping at the bit to run another story about them taking down some terrorist or Pirate ring.

That was actually a rhetorical question on my part. I've served with and trained with or under (then) current and former members of the Spec Ops Community. Most like living in the shadows and most take great pleasure in keeping their mouths shut when some keyboard commando that is within earshot starts talking smack about "How <insert Spec Ops Category Here> does it" based on what he read or their "experiences" playing video games.

Reagans Rascals

01-25-12, 08:55

That was actually a rhetorical question on my part. I've served with and trained with or under (then) current and former members of the Spec Ops Community. Most like living in the shadows and most take great pleasure in keeping their mouths shut when some keyboard commando that is within earshot starts talking smack about "How <insert Spec Ops Category Here> does it" based on what he read or their "experiences" playing video games.

Yeah I knew you were asking in jest... I was simply furthering your point.

My father was a PC CO at NAB Little Creek and I've heard more than a few stories about barely averted blue on blue do to the highspeed that these guys train at... they can't call up a civilian oil tanker and say "hey... we are gonna try and board you without you detecting us ok?".... they just have to do it.... and they can't call up port security or the PC's on escort and let them know either.... they are training to do the real thing...

It has to be frustrating being apart of that community, simply trying to do a job the best you can, and now everyone hurting for a piece of the action and wanting a piece of the SEAL name so they can make their own careers bigger.... like ****ing Disney trademarking/copywriting the phrase SEAL TEAM 6... just a ****ing disgrace. To turn the lives of the men that have died serving this country, into a ****in mockery... for the sole purpose of making ****in money. All Disney did when they did that was bet on a sure horse.... Devgru will be in the news again at some point in time... and Disney will make money from it... when they themselves did nothing whatsoever. It makes me sick.

I'm gonna copywrite the word "Terrorist" or hey even better... I'm gonna copywrite "September 11th".... so every time its used I get paid... even if its used by the family of a victim in a book or interview.

just ****in pure garbage.... nothing is sacred today. They would dig up Lincoln and **** his eye socket if they could spin it into a movie and make money from it.

same kinda b/s with people demanding to know whats going on at AREA 51.... you know whats going on there?... NYB Operations..... None-Ya-Business... that's what... now go the **** home and and finish watching Jesse Ventura shit himself on national tv

while the actions of the SEALs and goings-on at Area 51 are interesting... I can get by without knowing any of it... I myself sleep soundly at night knowing there are rough men ready to do violence on my behalf...

CarlosDJackal

01-25-12, 09:24

I got you.

While I am disgusted by what Disney has done (I bet Ol' Walt is rolling in his grave and wanting to come back and kick some asses) the bigger concern I have is why is this administration allowing all these details to be published? Don't they realize the damage they are doing to that community's capabilities and to our country's in general?

At least Disney only patented a designation and has not done anything to put our troops in danger (as far as I know). While it seems the current administration is actually releasing these details to make themselves look as if they are pro-Military (which they are clearly not) or are willing to get things done (which they seem to be).

sniperfrog

01-25-12, 09:25

Disney surrendered the trademark to the Navy after the Navy filed for the trademark as well.

Disney Co is a bunch of greedy souless douches for even applying for it, but at least they did the right thing in the end.

It seems the Obama admin. is putting out all this info on ST6 and other operations to try to make themselves look better. There was alot of shit that went down during the Bush years that no one heard about because that stuff is classified.

montanadave

01-25-12, 10:24

There was alot of shit that went down during the Bush years that no one heard about because that stuff is classified.

And they didn't want to get indicted! :lol:

FromMyColdDeadHand

01-25-12, 10:26

Reagans Rascals

01-25-12, 10:59

I think it needs to be publicized only as much as it helps to put the fear of the Boogeyman into these sea-borne vermin. Mess with US citizens and bad stuff happens. I would think the less specific informantion that gets out, the more effective it is.

I think I would be more afraid of that silent ghost that comes in the night without warning.... that no one knows who they are or what they are capable of.... just in the shadows.... like they were in Viet Nam... the men with green faces....

I think saying anything about them at all, is a bad move, because the more they know the monster... the less they will be afraid

children are more afraid of the monster that lives in their closet... that they've never seen and know nothing of... than they are the monsters they see in a movie.

In the Korean war, my grandfathers unit discovered a few of their men missing, and found them mutilated no too far away. That night, they infiltrated into the enemies camp, and snuck into the barracks as the majority of the enemy slept. They stealthily proceeded to cut the heads off every other man, placing the head on the chest of the body, as they slept..... in the morning the surviving men awoke... and saw that death was free to move as he pleased... and would come at any time...

That to me is scarier than anything we can say, show, or demonstrate

d90king

01-25-12, 11:01

Team America **** Yeah!

Moose-Knuckle

01-25-12, 15:18

Has anyone noticed that what used to be considered as "Black Ops" have received a lot more publicity over the past few years than before? I'm not sure if that is a good thing or not.

You can thank the current administration for that. They will do anything to make themselves look good. Election year and all. . .

obucina

01-25-12, 15:27

and whomever proliferated the story either gave multiple accounts or aint gots a clue. MSLSD says that they deployed via helo, the AP's radio updates say that they parachuted and them humped it.

Moose-Knuckle

01-25-12, 15:47

and whomever proliferated the story either gave multiple accounts or aint gots a clue. MSLSD says that they deployed via helo, the AP's radio updates say that they parachuted and them humped it.

Yeah just like the OBL raid we'll get ten different stories when in reality we shouldn't know shit about it.

RogerinTPA

01-25-12, 16:56

Seals 3, Dipshits 0. Good on them and well done.

It may be all about timing and assets closes to the target area, but the Army D-boys must be having an inferiority complex by now.

Moose-Knuckle

01-25-12, 17:26

It may be all about timing and assets closes to the target area, but the Army D-boys must be having an inferiority complex by now.

I highly doubt the national media is privy to there coming and goings.

SeriousStudent

01-25-12, 20:08

Bravo Zulu to the brave warriors that performed this mission.

It is difficult to think of a higher calling, than to rescue innocents from captors such as those.

God bless them and keep them all safe. I am very thankful that we have men such as these protecting our familes.

Reagans Rascals

01-25-12, 20:25

how awesome would it be if the woman rescued was a relative or friend of one of the SEALs involved in the rescue

and honestly at this point in time... Devgru probably looks at pirate interventions like an NFL Superbowl team playing against the middle school JV... just practice...

Belmont31R

01-25-12, 20:39

No matter what branch of service these guys serve in I doubt we will ever hear about all but a few of their missions, and such as it should be. I doubt any Delta guys have any worries about the worthiness of their task in life at the moment and vice versa. I wouldn't judge various units based on what makes headlines or who gets outed being somewhere.

At any rate Im extremely proud of these guys, and getting these people out of there. Thats why they get paid the big bucks...:cool:

Suwannee Tim

01-25-12, 20:58

They don't like it.
SEALs pride themselves on no one ever knowing their successes, only their failures......

The USN SEALs are now an appendage of the Obama campaign.

chuckman

01-26-12, 08:48

It may be all about timing and assets closes to the target area, but the Army D-boys must be having an inferiority complex by now.

I spoke to an acquaintance who told me "we're no less busy, just a lot quieter." he also said "the more spotlight on them, the less on us." BTW he spent about 340 days OCONUS, so I don't think their optempo has slowed any.

CarlosDJackal

01-26-12, 10:01

...but the Army D-boys must be having an inferiority complex by now.

I don't think they have the time to even care. :nono:

ForTehNguyen

01-26-12, 10:06

SEALs are already integrate into the Navy obviously so they have access to all the transportation they need: helicopters, naval craft, naval ships. Logistics are a lot easier it seems and it fits the mission profile better.

120mm

01-26-12, 11:37

The USN SEALs are now an appendage of the Obama campaign.

Of course they are. I saw CBS news this morning. Didn't Obama personally lead the raid? It seemed like it from the reporting.

And obtw, the reported versions of the raid all have major logic issues. Frankly, I doubt it happened the way it was reported, and that is a good thing.

Reagans Rascals

01-26-12, 12:10

...Didn't Obama personally lead the raid? It seemed like it from the reporting.

From what I have heard, Obama went in on his own, Braddock from Missing in Action 3 style...

The Joint Chiefs and Congress denied his request to go in, deeming the area too hot. He said to hell with all of them (he knew she as a Democrat and had to have her vote), he put in for a vacation to the Canary Islands. Once airborne, he commandeered Air Force 1 using techniques developed during his stay at Lompoc (classified), forced them to squawk as a 747 Freighter destined for the U.A.E. Once within range of the Somali Coast, he HAHO'd in about 14 miles off shore and kicked it in, once on shore he humped it to the target area and confirmed the hostages were indeed there. Alone, he had no choice but to think outside the box for a diversion, relying solely on his his signature move... the CAAC.... the Camel and a Claymore.... he placed a Claymore on the side of the Camel, front facing into the Camels side.... the camel then wandered into the compound and as it approached the guards he detonated it... blowing the insides of the camel out... and leaving the guards stunned as to wtf just happened

It was at that point he initiated the attack... with the vengeance of a ZULU warrior....leaving no survivors... and saving the hostages. However; he lost it... he couldn't turn off the killer inside... and Devgru was called in to subdue him.

He was extracted and flown home to attend the State of the Union.

that's how I heard things happened from AP radio....

RogerinTPA

01-26-12, 12:29

I don't think they have the time to even care. :nono:

Personally, neither do I.

SEALs are already integrate into the Navy obviously so they have access to all the transportation they need: helicopters, naval craft, naval ships. Logistics are a lot easier it seems and it fits the mission profile better.

Not all "transportation" and assets, are created equal (trained and qualified to conduct that type of mission)...which pretty much leaves out Navel Helo support. Which leaves the Army 160th SOAR (Night Stalkers) deploying from either Djibouti or a surface ship.

WillBrink

01-26-12, 12:37

The USN SEALs are now an appendage of the Obama campaign.

That we know about.:cool:

a0cake

01-26-12, 13:25

Comparing which JSOC element is getting these missions, and then attempting to derive any sort of conclusion from it is like dialing 911 and analyzing whether the first squad car to show up is a Crown Victoria or one of the department's SUV's. No logical correlation exists between which vehicle showed up first and which is "faster" or contains better officers. These operations are intelligence driven and trigger based. Nobody can predict when a target's execution checklist will go green. Which unit's DEPTEMPO lines up with "go criteria" being met is inconsequential.

Anybody else remember OPN Red Dawn and OPN Tapeworm? Is 4th Infantry Division "better" than the 101st Airborne Division because they nabbed Saddam? Is the 101st better than 4th ID because they killed Uday and Qusay?

Of course not. That's just how it worked out.

Also, Admiral McRaven was a SEAL. He commanded JSOC until August 2011. It's reasonable that he'd give the OBL mission to his cohorts assuming both groups were equally capable.

Reagans Rascals

01-26-12, 13:29

...which pretty much leaves out Navel Helo support.

HSC-84 & 85

RogerinTPA

01-26-12, 15:36

HSC-84 & 85

There's no indication that those units are up to speed yet. 7 months from formation, transitioning to another aircraft, crew and mission training, is a stretch.

Reagans Rascals

01-26-12, 17:29

There's no indication that those units are up to speed yet. 7 months from formation, transitioning to another aircraft, crew and mission training, is a stretch.

what are you talking about?

directly from wikipedia

HSC-84 can trace its squadrons' lineage to Helicopter Attack Light Squadron 4 (HAL-4), which was established on 1 July 1976 at NAS Norfolk, VA by CDR Theodore G Sholl,USNR.

On 1 October 1989, HAL-4 was re-designated Helicopter Combat Support Special Squadron 4 (HCS-4). Along with a change in designation, HCS-4 also received the HH-60H Seahawk and added Strike Rescue to its primary mission of Naval Special Warfare support.

On 1 October 2006, HCS-4 was redesignated Helicopter Sea Combat Squadron Eight Four (HSC-84). HSC-84 continues to be the forefront in the U.S. Navy as the premier Rotary wing Special Operations support.

where did 7 months come from? HSC-85 is the newbie... not 84

RogerinTPA

01-28-12, 13:33

Alpha Sierra

01-29-12, 07:22

Let me ask some provocative questions

1) What is an American civilian doing in Somalia?

2) Why is that person worthy of having our military committed to action?

This woman did not end up in Somalia involuntarily. She deliberately went to a shithole known worldwide for lawlessness and violence. And now she deserves our finest efforts to save her stupid ass?

I do not think so. PSGWSP

ForTehNguyen

01-29-12, 07:53

"American Jessica Buchanan, 32, and a 60-year-old Dane, Poul Thisted, were working for a Danish relief organization in northern Somalia when they were kidnapped last October. U.S. officials described their kidnappers as heavily armed common criminals with no known ties to any organized militant group."

Alpha Sierra

01-29-12, 08:17

Maybe the Danish Army should have gone in to get them.

ForTehNguyen

01-29-12, 10:33

not really sure what you are trying to argue. So if she got kidnapped in a non shithole country, its ok to use SEALs? But if she gets kidnapped in a shithole country then the US would say your SOL instead?

Besides this sends a strong message that if anyone kidnaps a US citizen, then you have an appointment with Mr SEAL.

Alpha Sierra

01-29-12, 10:51

I am arguing that Americans traveling abroad should be on their own.

Possessing an incredible lack of judgment should hurt badly. And going to Somalia in any capacity other than a trigger puller is exercising bad judgment in the extreme.

I know that opinion is not popular here, but I have grown tired of military interventionism at the drop of a hat.

S-1

01-29-12, 16:58

Belmont31R

01-29-12, 23:01

I am just glad we have these guys, and that they will do the job when called on. The details are irrelevant to most of us here.

Sensei

01-30-12, 00:01

I know that opinion is not popular here, but I have grown tired of military interventionism at the drop of a hat.

Don't worry - this place is overrun with NeoCon globalist. They think that the US can ride roughshod over another country's sovereignty with impunity.

All kidding aside, you and I probably disagree on this issue, but it is interesting how people can take conflicting positions between threads.

Moose-Knuckle

01-30-12, 00:32

Don't worry - this place is overrun with NeoCon globalist. They think that the US can ride roughshod over another country's sovereignty with impunity.

All kidding aside, you and I probably disagree on this issue, but it is interesting how people can take conflicting positions between threads.

Did anyone from Somalia fly a passenger airliner into a sky scraper in CONUS?

We were there in the 90's and that sucked for our guys. Now our merchant sailors and humanitarian relief workers are being kidnapped.

The other thread you refer to is about the current admin setting the climate for US military action in Iran.

120mm

01-30-12, 01:35

I am arguing that Americans traveling abroad should be on their own.

The ignorance of this statement continues to baffle me.

The idea that somehow Americans should not travel overseas, and impugning those that do astounds me.

Are you truly that stupid, or do you just play a red neck idiot on M4Carbine?

LowSpeed_HighDrag

01-30-12, 01:56

The ignorance of this statement continues to baffle me.

The idea that somehow Americans should not travel overseas, and impugning those that do astounds me.

Are you truly that stupid, or do you just play a red neck idiot on M4Carbine?

Are you capable of conveying simple thoughts without making disparaging remarks?

I've noticed that no matter the topic, you are extremely bitter and hateful to anyone who does not share your beliefs.

Anyways, when the SEALS took down the pirates aboard the Maersk Alabama, Obama gave a press conference gloating about how he gave the go ahead to kill the pirates. The media ate it up, claiming it was evidence that he could be strong when needed, but still be a kind, loving, humanitarin liberal. That bothered me from the get go, and it started a strange pattern where Obama and his administration recieved the credit for key strikes and victories, while the actual men who did it got far less credit (in the media).

This is just my opinion, but I prefer to have our Special Operations community to be kept in the shadows. When something needs killing, they go out and do it, and thats that. I feel like the more expose them, the less they will be able to accomplish. But, thats just me.

As far as US citizens traveling abroad: if you willfully travel to a known danger zone, especially where US troops are in imminent danger, you have now become a huge liability. Now, if you are captured, American Servicemen will have to risk their lives to rescue you, all because you wanted to travel to an area that you had no business in. Do I feel that they should be rescued? Yes, because it sends a message to our enemies. Should their be some sort of punishment for being there in the first place and having to be rescued? Maybe, maybe a fine or something along those lines, I dont know.

120mm

01-30-12, 02:16

Are you capable of conveying simple thoughts without making disparaging remarks?

I've noticed that no matter the topic, you are extremely bitter and hateful to anyone who does not share your beliefs.

I'm not hateful. It's just that some of you say shit that is so ****ing stupid that someone needs to point it out. And yeah, I think the guy who posted that is an ass-nugget.

As far as US citizens traveling abroad: if you willfully travel to a known danger zone, especially where US troops are in imminent danger, you have now become a huge liability. Now, if you are captured, American Servicemen will have to risk their lives to rescue you, all because you wanted to travel to an area that you had no business in. Do I feel that they should be rescued? Yes, because it sends a message to our enemies. Should their be some sort of punishment for being there in the first place and having to be rescued? Maybe, maybe a fine or something along those lines, I dont know.

Do you have any idea how many US citizens are working abroad in efforts that directly or tangentially support our nation's diplomatic and even military goals?

Even in "war zones."

The problem is, your typical soldier has no clue how many civilians are doing things in conflict areas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mfq15gTSt64&feature=fvsr

At 5:06, you'll find an illustration of some of the people posting to this thread.

What you guys are saying is pretty much akin to "**** the soldiers; they're volunteers anyway." How does that feel?

And yeah, I'm a civilian working in conflict areas, so I have a dog in this fight.

LowSpeed_HighDrag

01-30-12, 02:37

I'm not hateful. It's just that some of you say shit that is so ****ing stupid that someone needs to point it out. And yeah, I think the guy who posted that is an ass-nugget.

Do you have any idea how many US citizens are working abroad in efforts that directly or tangentially support our nation's diplomatic and even military goals?

Even in "war zones."

The problem is, your typical soldier has no clue how many civilians are doing things in conflict areas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mfq15gTSt64&feature=fvsr

At 5:06, you'll find an illustration of some of the people posting to this thread.

What you guys are saying is pretty much akin to "**** the soldiers; they're volunteers anyway." How does that feel?

And yeah, I'm a civilian working in conflict areas, so I have a dog in this fight.

I suppose what I meant by civilians in conflict areas are people like the hikers who were captured in Iran. They had no business being there, no support, no mission, and contingency plans. I see contractors, both for .gov and private businesses as havign a legitimate reason to be somewhere, especially if they have some sort of security already in place. I wouldnt be happy seeing US troops die rescuing a couple of stupid hikers who wandered into a bad, bad place.

I dont make the policies, I just criticize them haha. I have been on liberty in countries that arent the most friendly, and I suppose I had no real legitimate reason to be there, but I sure wouldve wanted a full Navy SEAL rescue. Its a hard topic, but I am glad that our country sticks its neck out to grab its civilians most of the time.

Terracoma

01-30-12, 14:10

I suppose what I meant by civilians in conflict areas are people like the hikers who were captured in Iran. They had no business being there, no support, no mission, and contingency plans.

To be fair, the "no business" types, like the hikers in Iran as well as the reporters in North Korea, only received diplomatic assistance.

All of the recent military rescues that come to mind seem to involve abductions and capture of legitimate civilians, like contractors, aid workers, ship crews, etc.

Reagans Rascals

01-30-12, 14:25

Sorry bubba, as much as you wanted it to be that Navy Squadron, they're not considered for those types of missions. It was in fact MH-60s from 160th SOAR, who are the premier SOF aviation rotary wing unit, designed specifically from inception, for that type of operation.

Added this link from open source: http://www.military.com/news/article/navy-seal-raid-in-somalia-shows-campaign-ahead.html?ESRC=dod.nl

Read entire article.

Well sorry to you as well Bubba, I never said I wanted it to be anything. Remember what they say about assumptions?... something about making an ass out of yourself?

I simply replied to the statement that the U.S. Navy does not have a SOF capable rotary-wing squadron, when in fact they do. That's all. I never stated that unit was in fact the one that was utilized in this instance.

I'm well aware of the 160th and their capabilities, They've even launched SEAL laden MH-6's in the past.... from CVN's. Which is a rare feat for the Little Bird.

Next time, read my entire statement, and those preceding it, and try your best to determine context before trying your best to school someone.

don't get your panties in a twist because you make a statement about how HSC-84 is only 7 months old and not capable, and then are proven drastically wrong. Simply admit your mistake and move on. Instead of cherry picking a rebuttal.

You have no idea of the capabilities of HSC-84 & 85. And you have no idea who, or what is considered for these operations because you aren't the one doing the considering. You are making statements about how great the 160th is because of what you read and watch on TV. You've seen Blackhawk Down 1 too many times. The 160TH isn't the only unit in the world capable of flying at night, in bad weather, and delivering operators. Naval and Marine Corps helo pilots do it every day.

CarlosDJackal

01-30-12, 15:11

Let me ask some provocative questions

1) What is an American civilian doing in Somalia?

Supposedly for humanitarian work. I guess it is good that some people are willing to do such work. But personally, Somalia would be the last place I would like to visit (unless it is open season to hunt for Somali pirates and such).

2) Why is that person worthy of having our military committed to action?

Because she is a US National. While I think it is a waste of our resources and Brave Warriors' lives to try and rescue such individuals as her (as well as those three "hikers" who the Iranians captured and finally released). It is also good to know that if we end up in a similar situation that there are Silent Warriors who are willing to do the same for us.

Just look at Operation "Acid Gambit" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Acid_Gambit) - the rescue of Kurt Muse from a Panamanian prison at the onset of the Invasion of Panama.

CarlosDJackal

01-30-12, 15:35

...The 160TH isn't the only unit in the world capable of flying at night, in bad weather, and delivering operators. Naval and Marine Corps helo pilots do it every day.

I disagree, the "Night Stalkers" are the only ones capable of conducting such missions, period!! J/K.

Because the 160th SOAR has a finite number of aircraft and the OPTEMPO they have had to support over the past decade; not to mention their brutal Deployment Schedule they have had to request augmentation during certain missions.

The mission in which we lost a CH-47 Chinook filled with DEVGRU Warriors last year (not long after UBL was killed). That CH-47 did not belong tot he 160th but an an Army Reserve unit that was tasked to fly that particular mission. This happens from time to time.

I've had the honor to fly with a former SOAR Aviator-turned NVG IP when I was attending Flight School in the early 1990s. He flew the AH-6 "Little Bird". That man was absolutely nuts but was one of the best fliers I have ever flown with. The selection process for the 160th ensures that the Aviators they get are at the top of their game. Any member of the Spec Ops community who they have supported will attest to their competence and courage.

If any of the other branches has or is considering organizing their own Special Operations "capable Rotarywing" unit, I hope they seriously reconsider. The 160th SOAR was created from lessons learned during the failed Iranian Hostage Rescue mission (Operation eagle Claw). Their successes and ability to support ALL the Spec Ops units over the years should be enough to convince anyone that just because they are US Army Aviators it doesn't mean that members of the other branches cannot rely on them to deliver or pick up Operators any time or anywhere. JM2CW.

RogerinTPA

01-30-12, 16:50

Well sorry to you as well Bubba, I never said I wanted it to be anything. Remember what they say about assumptions?... something about making an ass out of yourself?

I simply replied to the statement that the U.S. Navy does not have a SOF capable rotary-wing squadron, when in fact they do. That's all. I never stated that unit was in fact the one that was utilized in this instance.

I'm well aware of the 160th and their capabilities, They've even launched SEAL laden MH-6's in the past.... from CVN's. Which is a rare feat for the Little Bird.

Next time, read my entire statement, and those preceding it, and try your best to determine context before trying your best to school someone.

[QUOTE]don't get your panties in a twist because you make a statement about how HSC-84 is only 7 months old and not capable, and then are proven drastically wrong. Simply admit your mistake and move on. Instead of cherry picking a rebuttal.

Dude calm down and wipe your tears. You assertion proved nothing. They would be considered, "limited" in there SOF capability. Just like other SOC capable units, that are limited in that capacity.

You have no idea of the capabilities of HSC-84 & 85. And you have no idea who, or what is considered for these operations because you aren't the one doing the considering. You are making statements about how great the 160th is because of what you read and watch on TV. You've seen Blackhawk Down 1 too many times. The 160TH isn't the only unit in the world capable of flying at night, in bad weather, and delivering operators. Naval and Marine Corps helo pilots do it every day.

Actually, you need to take your own advice about ASSumtions to heart. Again, your wishful thinking lead you off the cliff. I do know the capabilities since I was the one actually ordering the aircraft for the missions when I was the Aviation Liaison Officer for the 160th SOAR, which was an 0-5 level billet, to SOCOM for some years and retired from. The unit you described, at the time I was in that position, was deemed from the 4 star level down, "not ready for prime time", not considered SOF ready, regardless of what they reclassified themselves, and was not considered for serious deployments. Please don't make anymore ASSumptions about me. You'd only be guessing, and you'd be wrong...again.

RogerinTPA

01-30-12, 17:04

I disagree, the "Night Stalkers" are the only ones capable of conducting such missions, period!! J/K.

Because the 160th SOAR has a finite number of aircraft and the OPTEMPO they have had to support over the past decade; not to mention their brutal Deployment Schedule they have had to request augmentation during certain missions.

The mission in which we lost a CH-47 Chinook filled with DEVGRU Warriors last year (not long after UBL was killed). That CH-47 did not belong tot he 160th but an an Army Reserve unit that was tasked to fly that particular mission. This happens from time to time.

I've had the honor to fly with a former SOAR Aviator-turned NVG IP when I was attending Flight School in the early 1990s. He flew the AH-6 "Little Bird". That man was absolutely nuts but was one of the best fliers I have ever flown with. The selection process for the 160th ensures that the Aviators they get are at the top of their game. Any member of the Spec Ops community who they have supported will attest to their competence and courage.

If any of the other branches has or is considering organizing their own Special Operations "capable Rotarywing" unit, I hope they seriously reconsider. The 160th SOAR was created from lessons learned during the failed Iranian Hostage Rescue mission (Operation eagle Claw). Their successes and ability to support ALL the Spec Ops units over the years should be enough to convince anyone that just because they are US Army Aviators it doesn't mean that members of the other branches cannot rely on them to deliver or pick up Operators any time or anywhere. JM2CW.

Agreed. The 160th is the only rotary wing unit with that mandate after Eagle Claw. There are many Rotary wing units from across the spectrum, trying to get a SOF type designation, but don't have Title funding, to conduct the unGodly amount of training necessary to provide parity with the 160th.

Reagans Rascals

01-30-12, 18:43

I was the one actually ordering the aircraft for the missions when I was the Aviation Liaison Officer for the 160th SOAR

EXACTLY.... you were with SOAR... not the US Navy. Simply because you were tasked with SOAR missions, does not mean you were privy to the entire breadth of every mission being conducted by the US Navy. You know what you were told to know, so don't make the statement that you know what you weren't told.

Yes, the 160th is the only rotary wing under JSOC, but that does not mean that other units are not given JSOC taskings when SOAR is unavailable or unable to undertake that type of mission.

And the Tier 1 guys in JSOC are not the only operators conducting missions, and are not the only guys that need rides.... the Air Force have their own wing, as does the Navy and Marine Corps. And they do co-mingle when necessary.

The 160th is not the end-all be-all of rotary wing units.

There are plenty of SEALs right now, not just Devgru, going into harms way, on birds not operated by SOAR...

RogerinTPA

01-30-12, 19:07

I guess I should add that it was a section that represented ALL SOF aircraft from across the spectrum, and available assets in general, was subject to daily briefings on those assets. That's beside the point...NO ONE considered that unit ready. I had a conversation with folks in that office the other day... quite frankly, it is still not considered up to snuff and only in a limited capacity.

EXACTLY.... you were with SOAR... not the US Navy. Simply because you were tasked with SOAR missions, does not mean you were privy to the entire breadth of every mission being conducted by the US Navy. You know what you were told to know, so don't make the statement that you know what you weren't told.

Yes, the 160th is the only rotary wing under JSOC, but that does not mean that other units are not given JSOC taskings when SOAR is unavailable or unable to undertake that type of mission.

And the Tier 1 guys in JSOC are not the only operators conducting missions, and are not the only guys that need rides.... the Air Force have their own wing, as does the Navy and Marine Corps. And they do co-mingle when necessary.

The 160th is not the end-all be-all of rotary wing units.

There are plenty of SEALs right now, not just Devgru, going into harms way, on birds not operated by SOAR...

Reagans Rascals

01-30-12, 19:09

I guess I should add that it was a section that represented ALL SOF aircraft from across the spectrum, and available assets in general, was subject to daily briefings. That's beside the point...NO ONE considered that unit ready. I had a conversation with folks in that office the other day... quite frankly, it is still not considered up to snuff and only in a limited capacity.

.......... yeah this is a picture of my girlfriend.... yeah she's from outta town... you wouldn't know her

RogerinTPA

01-30-12, 19:12

.......... yeah this is a picture of my girlfriend.... yeah she's from outta town... you wouldn't know her

You'd be surprised...I get around.;)

Alpha Sierra

01-30-12, 19:38

The ignorance of this statement continues to baffle me.

The idea that somehow Americans should not travel overseas, and impugning those that do astounds me.

Are you truly that stupid, or do you just play a red neck idiot on M4Carbine?
I believe that your lack of comprehension about what I said labels you an ignorant idiot far better than anything I could say about you.

Anyway, your opinion, and your possible fate wherever in the F you may be and whatever the hell you may be doing is of no concern to me.

I've never addressed you disrespectfully and you can go straight to hell if you think you can do it to me.