Bullion investing????

[rjacobs]

Anybody invest in physical bullion of any kind?

I am thinking of getting into some silver right now(I cant swing the gold prices to buy 1oz Gold pieces). From what I can tell online most people recommend 10oz bars. vs. coins since coins command a higher price per oz than bars do. I am not a coin collector so I would rather have the most physical silver I can for my money. I am not looking to make a quick buck with these I know they will be a long term investment.

I have no clue where to start though. There are different brands(which all command a different price over market), secondary market bars(which to ME seem like a good deal, but they may not be), IRA certified, etc... Various websites also sell for different amounts over market, discounts for cash vs. CC use, etc...

[ForTehNguyen]

www.apmex.com is where I buy from

10oz bars are more efficiently priced. I have mostly 1oz. Another good buy are pre 1965 90% silver US coinage. You can find these for under spot price sometimes. I use eBay for the 90% US coins.

Not sure what your plans for the metal but if you were planning to hold onto some for trading/bartering would be a good idea to have some 1oz pieces.

[Zhurdan]

Beef Bullion goes with anything. ;)

I also use APMEX.com. Delivery is fast. Silver us up quite a bit since I last bought any. I started buying at the $14/oz. range and stopped buying at the $24/oz. range. I went with the 5oz. bars and they are indeed a little cheaper. You'll probably save more by using their direct wire transfer feature than the difference between coins and bars though if you plan to buy with a credit card/debit card.

For instance, it's $5.46 cheaper if you wire the money or use a check than if you pay cc/dc. There's a built in profit right there.

[rjacobs]

I have looked at APMEX. I just found a place locally that beats them on price for 10oz Silver bars from Engelhard and Johnson Matthey by about 20-25 a piece.

[The_War_Wagon]

Any reputable coin dealer will be able to help you as well. Look towards ACTUAL Coin shops, as opposed to the "WE BUY GOLD" yo-yo's, pawn shops, & jewelry stores.

That's who I work with - a local coin shop that's been in the same family since 1959. :cool:

[rjacobs]

Any reputable coin dealer will be able to help you as well. Look towards ACTUAL Coin shops, as opposed to the "WE BUY GOLD" yo-yo's, pawn shops, & jewelry stores.

That's who I work with - a local coin shop that's been in the same family since 1959. :cool:

Yea thats what this place is here close to me, a real coin shop/precious metals. 10oz of Silver bar from Engelhard was ~$345 which is only roughly a $1.50 premium over market price. APMEX has the Engelhard's for $3 over market. APMEX sells their own marked silver bars for $1.50 over market.

[Pork Chop]

I'm also looking to begin this process, so can someone explain why bars from Engelhard for example, cost more than others? Obviously there are some more desirable than others, but why exactly?

thanks.

[rjacobs]

I'm also looking to begin this process, so can someone explain why bars from Engelhard for example, cost more than others? Obviously there are some more desirable than others, but why exactly?

thanks.

From what I gather(and I may be TOTALLY off base here) is that bars from Engelhard and bars from Matthey are KNOWN to be good bars, they have serial #'s, etc.... Some of the other bars may or may not be what they say they are. I guess I could compare it to saying Engel's and Matthis are the Colts of silver bars. They are a known standard and they produce repeatable good products. Some bars are also poured vs. extruded/struck which extruding costs more to manufacture, but produces a better end product than pouring.

Here was a list of bars and what "tier" they were considered:
Top Tier
Johnson Matthey
Engelhard
Pamp
Credit Suisse

Second Tier
Apmex
A-mark
Silver Towne
Heraeus
OPM

Third Tier
Sunshine
Wall Street
Academy
NWT
Pan American


My local shop(I called to talk to them) also sells NTR(north Texas refinery) for the same price as Engelhard and Matthey and considers them to be top tier as well.

I think personally I will be going for Engelhard or Matthey since they command a premium over everything else and I suspect will continue to hold their premium.

With that said, from what I can tell, no matter what brand you have, you will never get less than the spot price for your bars, but you may not get any kind of a premium.

[Pork Chop]

Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to know.

[Zhurdan]

From what I gather(and I may be TOTALLY off base here) is that bars from Engelhard and bars from Matthey are KNOWN to be good bars, they have serial #'s, etc.... Some of the other bars may or may not be what they say they are. I guess I could compare it to saying Engel's and Matthis are the Colts of silver bars. They are a known standard and they produce repeatable good products. Some bars are also poured vs. extruded/struck which extruding costs more to manufacture, but produces a better end product than pouring.

Here was a list of bars and what "tier" they were considered:
Top Tier
Johnson Matthey
Engelhard
Pamp
Credit Suisse

Second Tier
Apmex
A-mark
Silver Towne
Heraeus
OPM

Third Tier
Sunshine
Wall Street
Academy
NWT
Pan American


My local shop(I called to talk to them) also sells NTR(north Texas refinery) for the same price as Engelhard and Matthey and considers them to be top tier as well.

I think personally I will be going for Engelhard or Matthey since they command a premium over everything else and I suspect will continue to hold their premium.

With that said, from what I can tell, no matter what brand you have, you will never get less than the spot price for your bars, but you may not get any kind of a premium.

Sounds like you have a hell of a clue!

[rjacobs]

From my research today I think I am going to watch the silver market a bit more before buying anything. Some people are saying that this run in the past few weeks is from 2 things: one investment house buying a ton(well several tons actually) of physical silver bullion(instead of futures options) and the feds announcement today. Some people are saying that the price could fall in a month or so when a bunch of futures contracts come due(that JPM backed) that may have to actually be filled if people dont sell and that could cause the price to drop. I think I am going to wait and see for a few weeks/months until the price drops back under $30 and just keep putting my cash away so I can buy more when the price drops.

Although overall Silver is up ~500%+ in the past 10 years so as a long term investment I think its still a good place to be and it and a couple other precious metals are some of the only investments you can take physical possession of, which is one big thing driving me into buying Silver bars.

[ForTehNguyen]

APMEX has 1oz sunshine minting bars for $1.29 per oz over spot for any quantity.

http://www.apmex.com/Product/55646/.aspx?utm_source=ActOn&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=012512Aban

[chadbag]

I've used http://www.bulliondirect.com/ in the past.

They sell directly but also run an "exchange" where you put your own stuff up or bid on others stuff and they handle everything (anonymously for the end parties) in the middle. You can either "bank" your stuff with them or send it in to them once sold on the exchange within so many days...

The exchange is interesting to watch since you bid against others.

[120mm]

Gold and Silver are commodities.

There are three kinds of people who "invest" (bet is a better word, actually) in commodities. 1. Experts 2. Hobbyists and 3. Idiots.

If you can afford to lose the money you put into them, great. If you have dedicated your life to studying the subject and have a track record, great.

Otherwise, draw your own conclusions.

[Pork Chop]

Gold and Silver are commodities.

There are three kinds of people who "invest" (bet is a better word, actually) in commodities. 1. Experts 2. Hobbyists and 3. Idiots.

If you can afford to lose the money you put into them, great. If you have dedicated your life to studying the subject and have a track record, great.

Otherwise, draw your own conclusions.


Point taken.

I would honestly say that's why silver interests me. Can I afford to buy a 1oz piece of silver on a semi-frequent basis for $30/oz, knowing that in 5 years that 1oz of silver could be worth $10 or maybe $60? Yes.

Could I do that with gold at $1,800/oz? Not so much.

To each their own.