View Full Version : AAC fires plant manager; moving to NY
From Gearscout:
" The hits keep coming. This time, Freedom Group fired AAC’s plant manager yesterday. The termination of Lynsey Thompson signals their intention to move the AAC operation to Remington’s factory in Ilion, New York."
I hope the FG non-compete clauses are air tight, because I suspect that the old crew might get back together and start making competitive products again.
That would be epic!!
I hope the FG non-compete clauses are air tight, because I suspect that the old crew might get back together and start making competitive products again.
That would be epic!!
Agreed. Based on some of my clients' experiences, they may have a difficult time enforcing the NC in Georgia.
Why would anyone move a manufacturing business to NY?
scoutfsu99
01-25-12, 16:04
Why would anyone move a manufacturing business to NY?
Especially anything relating to firearms.
Why would anyone move a manufacturing business to NY?
I think Cerberus is consolidating its manufacturing.
Belmont31R
01-25-12, 16:16
I hope the FG non-compete clauses are air tight, because I suspect that the old crew might get back together and start making competitive products again.
That would be epic!!
How would that work with an employee and not an owner?
Would they make every employee sign something like that? Seems sketchy to be like "sign this or today is you last day", and then the next day fire them and they can't get a job in the same industry or start their own business.
How would that work with an employee and not an owner?
Would they make every employee sign something like that? Seems sketchy to be like "sign this or today is you last day", and then the next day fire them and they can't get a job in the same industry or start their own business.
Outside my depth, only know those I've signed and been a part of researching breaches, but anyone can be requested to sign one that I've seen.
Also if you are terminated without cause, I believe it's been shown that the former employer would need to sue you, and your defense would center around expertise in field, and needing to have a job since they took yours away by termination without cause.
The contract could also have been so lopsided as to be ridiculous, and unenforceable.
As I said, way outside my depth, but yes even pest removal technicians have been known to sign NC contracts in this area. Odd, huh?
Belmont31R
01-25-12, 16:46
Outside my depth, only know those I've signed and been a part of researching breaches, but anyone can be requested to sign one that I've seen.
Also if you are terminated without cause, I believe it's been shown that the former employer would need to sue you, and your defense would center around expertise in field, and needing to have a job since they took yours away by termination without cause.
The contract could also have been so lopsided as to be ridiculous, and unenforceable.
As I said, way outside my depth, but yes even pest removal technicians have been known to sign NC contracts in this area. Odd, huh?
Out of my depth, too, but my initial reaction is you're taking away someone's livelihood or means of providing for themselves with these types of things if a person cannot get a job in the same field.
I could not see taking IP with them since that belongs to the company but people should be free to take THEIR expertise with them. That doesn't belong to the company.
Robb Jensen
01-25-12, 16:55
A long long time ago I once signed a non-competition agreement. I made sure it only kept me from working for a competitor if I quit/resigned on my own. If I were terminated I could work for whomever I wanted to.
Well, now that that is settled, what do you guys think will become of the old AAC?
TriumphRat675
01-25-12, 17:20
Well, now that that is settled, what do you guys think will become of the old AAC?
Same thing that happens to a lot of established, well-branded independently owned stand-alone companies that get taken over by a private equity group.
Key staffers and inconvenient leadership fired or incentivized to leave, manufacturing facilities consolidated, product design and build quality suffers, sales go down, more staffers fired and costs cut in desperate attempt to revive profitability, death spiral begins, finally an empty husk of a once-vibrant company is sold to a high bidder and starts selling knock-offs of the original to people who don't know or care about the difference.
AAC was all about making great cans. Cerebus is all about making lots of money. When your focus moves from making great stuff to making lots of money, your priorities get rearranged, usually with bad results...
QuietShootr
01-25-12, 17:47
Same thing that happens to a lot of established, well-branded independently owned stand-alone companies that get taken over by a private equity group.
Key staffers and inconvenient leadership fired or incentivized to leave, manufacturing facilities consolidated, product design and build quality suffers, sales go down, more staffers fired and costs cut in desperate attempt to revive profitability, death spiral begins, finally an empty husk of a once-vibrant company is sold to a high bidder and starts selling knock-offs of the original to people who don't know or care about the difference.
AAC was all about making great cans. Cerebus is all about making lots of money. When your focus moves from making great stuff to making lots of money, your priorities get rearranged, usually with bad results...
Yepper. It's happening to my company. We are known for being the tip-top in our field, the Vickers Custom of my industry, if you will.
We were just bought by another company (with a much worse rep than ours, and who was in turn bought by a private equity firm last year) over the summer, who immediately took our name and dumped theirs, even though they were four times our size. Quality is already taking a nosedive, and the highly proficient are running for the exits. Next year, a once-great contract research organization will be an also-ran, because our focus has shifted from doing the highest quality work to getting the VC the highest return.
Out of my depth, too, but my initial reaction is you're taking away someone's livelihood or means of providing for themselves with these types of things if a person cannot get a job in the same field.
I could not see taking IP with them since that belongs to the company but people should be free to take THEIR expertise with them. That doesn't belong to the company.
A non compete is generally meant to keep someone from taking skills they learned at their current employer and then using to make yourself successful else where. So if you grab Jimmy No-Skills off the street and teach him how to use a lathe then a non compete would make sense. Likewise if you hire a marketing rep and give him access to your client list a NC would be perfectly fine. If I buy out a company, then the existing owners will get an NC. However if you hire an engineer the NC can generally only be limited to any proprietary information the hiring company makes him privy to.
They key is to have your own attorney go over any prosposed NC to cover your ass.
Suwannee Tim
01-25-12, 21:08
A non-compete agreement is not worth the paper it is printed on. They are unenforceable.
I see a lot of these Georgia folks, offered the opportunity to move to New York, declining.
These events mean I will not be buying any AAC cans in the near future. I've been in positions like the employees at AAC face, and product quality takes a back seat to survival. I'm also concerned that FG will take AAC towards mil/le contracts exclusively and forget the little guys. With Silencerco acquiring SWR and Surefire stepping up their suppressor game, I can see a LOT of AAC buyers turning elsewhere.
These events mean I will not be buying any AAC cans in the near future. I've been in positions like the employees at AAC face, and product quality takes a back seat to survival. I'm also concerned that FG will take AAC towards mil/le contracts exclusively and forget the little guys. With Silencerco acquiring SWR and Surefire stepping up their suppressor game, I can see a LOT of AAC buyers turning elsewhere.
Yup, it's hard to do your job with one hand covering your butthole.
With Silencerco acquiring SWR and Surefire stepping up their suppressor game, I can see a LOT of AAC buyers turning elsewhere.
I know I'm interested in SilencerCo. I'll probably never support the SureFire Machine.... but AAC's annual customer alienation and shitty mounts have finally turned me off to them for good.
People shouldn't feel bad for Kevin... the dude made a fortune. And I'm sure he'll start a new company and go play Dodge ball with his tard employees while customers wonder where their product is. :rolleyes:
Same thing that happens to a lot of established, well-branded independently owned stand-alone companies that get taken over by a private equity group.
Key staffers and inconvenient leadership fired or incentivized to leave, manufacturing facilities consolidated, product design and build quality suffers, sales go down, more staffers fired and costs cut in desperate attempt to revive profitability, death spiral begins, finally an empty husk of a once-vibrant company is sold to a high bidder and starts selling knock-offs of the original to people who don't know or care about the difference.
AAC was all about making great cans. Cerebus is all about making lots of money. When your focus moves from making great stuff to making lots of money, your priorities get rearranged, usually with bad results...
Wow - who knew that Newt Gingrich was posting on this forum! :D
Just kidding. I too am sad to see this happen since AAC was a decent value suppressor (been more partial to Surefire).
A non-compete agreement is not worth the paper it is printed on. They are unenforceable.
I see a lot of these Georgia folks, offered the opportunity to move to New York, declining.
That's a very broad, and in my opinion, baseless statement. In many cases, non-competition language is written into a contract for sale and only affects the stakeholders of the company being sold. Employees are rarely asked to sign them unless their access to intellectual property can't be restricted.
I believe a properly written non-competition agreements are enforceable. Most of them are overly verbose and as a result are a legal minefield. KISS is the rule. Example one...
Suwannee Tim, the seller, agrees to sell, and MK18, the buyer, agrees to buy, Suwannee's Suppressor Shop for the sum of $1,000,000 and other valuable consideration. In exchange for the consideration paid by MK18, Suwannee Tim agrees not to engage in the design, manufacturing or sale of suppressors for a period of two years from the date of sale. Suwannee Tim acknowledges that he has received payment in full from MK18.
Game on...
At anytime, in the next two years, Suwanne Tim gets caught engaging in the design, manufacture or sale of suppressors, MK18 is going to own him, in ANY state. When the cease and desist letter arrives, Suwanne Tim is going to have three choices, cease and desist, stroke a check for lets say $5,000,000 or spend a metric crap ton of cash fighting me in court in an ATTEMPT to establish that the non-competition clause is unenforceable. Don't forget that my cost to litigate is only attorney fees. If you lose, you are going to be paying my attorney fees, your attorney fees and TRIPLE DAMAGES.
That's a very broad, and in my opinion, baseless statement. In many cases, non-competition language is written into a contract for sale and only affects the stakeholders of the company being sold. Employees are rarely asked to sign them unless their access to intellectual property can't be restricted.
I believe a properly written non-competition agreements are enforceable. Most of them are overly verbose and as a result are a legal minefield. KISS is the rule. Example one...
Suwannee Tim, the seller, agrees to sell, and MK18, the buyer, agrees to buy, Suwannee's Suppressor Shop for the sum of $1,000,000 and other valuable consideration. In exchange for the consideration paid by MK18, Suwannee Tim agrees not to engage in the design, manufacturing or sale of suppressors for a period of two years from the date of sale. Suwannee Tim acknowledges that he has received payment in full from MK18.
Game on...
At anytime, in the next two years, Suwanne Tim gets caught engaging in the design, manufacture or sale of suppressors, MK18 is going to own him, in ANY state. When the cease and desist letter arrives, Suwanne Tim is going to have three choices, cease and desist, stroke a check for lets say $5,000,000 or spend a metric crap ton of cash fighting me in court in an ATTEMPT to establish that the non-competition clause is unenforceable. Don't forget that my cost to litigate is only attorney fees. If you lose, you are going to be paying my attorney fees, your attorney fees and TRIPLE DAMAGES.
Womp womp, /sadface.
Every case is different but do we even know that he's signed a noncompete?
Every case is different but do we even know that he's signed a noncompete?
Nope, I was merely re-directing that if FG did not have Lynsey, Kevin and some others on NC's, or the NC's were poorly written, we might be seeing "the original band getting back together".
Remember, Kevin and Cara (sp?) built up AAC without FG's or Remington's help initially, does anyone really think they can't do it again?
Key staffers and inconvenient leadership fired or incentivized to leave, manufacturing facilities consolidated, product design and build quality suffers, sales go down, more staffers fired and costs cut in desperate attempt to revive profitability, death spiral begins, finally an empty husk of a once-vibrant company is sold to a high bidder and starts selling knock-offs of the original to people who don't know or care about the difference.
Very nicely summarized. It's sad, but that's kind of how I think it will go, too.
The only AAC peeps I'm familiar with are rsilvers on this forum, and Mike Mers (because of his sweaters). Here's wishing them the best in these times of change!
It's really too bad. I was looking at the SR5 / SR7 as my first can. With the impending shenanigans that are apparently going on, they may never see the light of day and who knows if the quality will be maintained. Customer service will likely be negatively impacted as well if a location and staffing change took place.
Mers has posted on FB that AAC will not be moving. Interesting.
Anyone who still works at AAC better tow the corporate line or will find them selves on the outside looking in!
TriumphRat675
01-26-12, 10:49
Couple of thoughts:
1. Noncompete agreements and their enforceability vary from state to state. There is a historical resistance from courts to restricting a person's ability to make a living, but that has been eroding over time. In Texas, a NCA can be enforceable but has to meet certain restrictions.
2. Private equity firms aren't bad in and of themselves, especially when they swoop in to take over a failed or failing company. The best result is when they can turn it around and make it profitable again; sometimes they gut it and sell off the assets - either way, money is made from a troubled company that wasn't making money and I don't have a problem with that. But sometimes they buy a good company and run it into the ground because of misplaced priorities - i.e., making money instead of good product. QuietShootr's company sounds like a good example of this.
3. My (perhaps unwarranted) pessimism aside, we don't know the realities behind the AAC shake-up and I doubt we'll hear much from the players involved. Maybe the people who were let go didn't fit into the corporate hierarchy very well, which isn't unusual for entrepreneurial types. Big corps have their own ways of doing things and tend to be more straightlaced than smaller ones. If you've been following the AAC blog for a while you may remember seeing lots of pics of saucy young ladies...you don't see that anymore...and I wouldn't be surprised if that was kiboshed by Big Green for pretty sound reasons. Long story short, there may have been good reasons for the terminations, it may not mean much in terms of quality of product, and I'll wait to see what the end result before passing judgment all while wishing AAC, their employees, and those who have been moved on the best.
Suwannee Tim
01-26-12, 11:23
That's a very broad, and in my opinion, baseless statement......
It is very broad but not baseless. Here is the basis: From my experience in the ceramic capacitors industry there was a merry-go-round of Sprague, Murata, ATC, Johanssen, Vishay, Dale and others, State College, PA, Myrtle Beach, Hunting Station, LIC, NY, Amarillo, Jacksonville, the ceramics guys made the rounds. One company for a couple of years, another for five, the next for three, then one for six or eight. Round and round, company to company. Every single one of them signed a non-compete with every new job. I knew dozens of these guys, no hundreds. Every third conversation was who was doing what where and what the opportunities were. I never heard of a non-compete being enforced. Same exact situation with semiconductors. TI, Fairchild, Motorola, Linear, National, Phillips, Maxim, a big merry-go-round. Never heard of a non-compete being enforced. Not once. I don't recall hearing of an employer trying to enforce one. I have signed several. I was presented with one at Perkin Elmer and balked. It would prevented me from doing anything but Perkin Elmer for the rest of my life. The company paid for me to find an attorney of my choice who advised me. He told me to sign it and relax. "Not worth a beer bottle full of warm piss" is what he told me.
Might play out a little differently than other trades, because if Kevin and "the boys" come back they will likely be making suppressors, and they will likely have their same fans, which means Remington will lose those fans, and sales.
I can see that being defended, vigorously.
Most people won't even realize that AAC has changed hands, or know who was behind making great suppressors in the first place. They'll see the name "AAC" and continue buying from them.
Just yesterday I had to re-explain to someone that Springfield Armory is not the same Springfield Armory it used to be... and that change happened decades ago.
I'm an attorney blablabla. Anyway. One of my first assignments was on restrictive covenants, aka, non compete clauses. There's a while body of law that goes in to restrictive covenants, and they must be 'reasonable' in time, location covered, and generally fair. I don't think a company in Ny can do much about a company in another state, but thats up to AACs competent counsel.
Most people won't even realize that AAC has changed hands, or know who was behind making great suppressors in the first place. They'll see the name "AAC" and continue buying from them.
I just hope they figger out how to make a decent mounting system.
Just yesterday I had to re-explain to someone that Springfield Armory is not the same Springfield Armory it used to be... and that change happened decades ago.
That right there is a crime.... The junk they import under a lengendary name... and sell to uninformed dumbies across the country.
Sprinfield is a marketing company.
Might play out a little differently than other trades, because if Kevin and "the boys" come back they will likely be making suppressors, and they will likely have their same fans, which means Remington will lose those fans, and sales.
Remington has fans?
But in all seriousness, the fact that Freedom Group is a BFC (Big Fancy Corporation), means they have Big Fancy Lawyers.
I don't understand how Gear Scout can extrapolate the movement of an entire manufacturing company to another state simply based on the removal of one employee from their position.
I feel like they should not instigate.
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