Want Some "Light" Advice (Pictures of what I want included) [Archive]

BushmasterFanBoy

12-17-07, 00:37

I am interested in getting a dedicated light for my AR15. I'm not going to actually be using it because I shoot in the daytime, but I'm sure it will get a good workout when I play with it at night in my home. Main things I am looking for is how the light will look on the weapon, and how I can manipulate it.

Want to have a push button with momentary on/off, and use my vertical grip

Basically I want to mount the light at either 9 o'clock or 3 o'clock and use my forward pointing thumb (left or right side depending on my mood) to engage the on/off momentary button. Does this make sense?

Next major factor is looks. I like the look of the lights that are seen on the Mk18 short barreled Navy SEALs guns. I would like the same light if possible. Below are some ideas that I like and need input on what these people are using:

Resq47
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/117/312533222_d4be19a2ab.jpg
I really like this setup. I believe this particular setup is the same thing I am descrbing above? Does anyone know if this setup is what I want based on what I just said? It's using the solid LaRue mount and I love the way the light looks. Can anyone tell me what he is using?

rob_s
http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/196/196030/folders/171062/1926930ARComplete.jpg
I believe this is the same light as pictured above? I like the light, but obviously I would be using mine in conjunction with a forward grip and pressing the button with my thumb.

Random Internet Pic
http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/photos/060128-N-4374S-001.jpg
Just a link for this one, because it is too large for this page. In the lower left you can see the light, I am interested, is this the same light as the above?

If anyone has any comments or suggestions, please give them. This will be a major purchase for me and I would like to make sure that the light satisfies my specific requirements (ie light placement/proper model).
Thanks!

Robb Jensen

12-17-07, 06:15

Those are 9v 961 SureFire (http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main.pl?pgm=co_disp&func=displ&strfnbr=6&prrfnbr=23458&sesent=0,0&search_id=606661) lights. For a cheaper similar light you could go with a SureFire M3 Combat light (http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/prrfnbr/403/sesent/00) mounted in a VLTOR ring.

Personally I find them too big and too heavy. I had a Surefire 951 (6v) on my 10" LMT and it made the gun very front heavy.

I'll be rebuilding the upper on this gun soon and will be low profile 'shaving' the FSB to a gas block, using a 9" Daniel Defense Lite Rail and mounting a Surefire X200 or X300 at 12 o'clock on the muzzle end of the rail and run a LMT MRP rail mounted fixed front sight right behind the light. My barrel actually measures 10 7/16" so I might be able to use a 10" Lite Rail but I doubt it. I'm pretty sure the DD Mk18 rail would fit too, but damn that's a lot of loot!

I assembled an upper just like this for a friend. His has a genuine 10.25" Colt CQBR barrel, 9" Lite Rail, LMT front sight, Colt upper receiver and Colt M16 BCG and PRI Gas Buster and I 'shaved' the FSB down to a low profile gas block and shortened it (in the front) about 1mm to ensure that it was completely under the rail, he has the Surefire 556K suppressor and mount. Very badass looking upper and VERY lightweight.

Sam

12-17-07, 06:26

Those are two different lights, both are Surefires.
Rob S's light looks like a SF-M961 Millenium series and Z48 or 49 tail cap with dual thumb screw mount.
Resq47's looks like a SF-M971 Millenium series with a Larue mount.

http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main.pl?pgm=co_disp&func=displ&sesent=00&carfnbr=135

markm

12-17-07, 07:30

Main things I am looking for is how the light will look on the weapon, and how I can manipulate it.

What do you mean by "how the light will look on the weapon"? :confused:

rob_s

12-17-07, 07:41

FWIW, that light IS heavy and bulky. Below is what that gun looks like now. Note that it is now installed on a throwlever mount so that it can be taken off easily when I want a lighter package. The light w/ mount weighs in at 11.6 oz (http://s134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/gun%20stuff/?action=view&current=IMG_1826Small.jpg) so it's a big difference.

With all of that said, it's also very bright and has a good "throw", which is perfect for this particular carbine. It also wears a 3x optic, and is intended for use on more medium-range targets.

Compare that with a Surefire Scout-type (http://s134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/gun%20stuff/?action=view&current=IMG_1825Small.jpg) at less than half the weight that rides on my SBR for closer-range work (bottom pic).

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/gun%20stuff/6520-01.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/gun%20stuff/6933-01.jpg

Failure2Stop

12-17-07, 10:54

I am a fan of the 961 series, but they are noticeably heavier than other options. For illuminating at distance or from bright areas into dark areas, I have not used anything better. For a dedicated indoor/close range illumination tool I prefer something lighter, such as an X300 or Scout Light.

You may want to try the 951, less weight for a little less light than a 961.

Aubrey

12-17-07, 11:44

rhino

12-17-07, 11:52

. . . Main things I am looking for is how the light will look on the weapon . . .
Next major factor is looks. I like the look of the lights that are seen on the Mk18 short barreled Navy SEALs guns. . . .

I admire your candor. You're being forthright that you care about how it looks. A lot more people care a lot more about how their stuff looks than will ever admit it here.

Sam

12-17-07, 12:16

It's got to have the cool factor 'cause chicks dig it.

Buck

12-17-07, 13:10

Here is my .02

I believe in purpose built carbines... With that in mind I am going to recommend a light solution to your query...

A few points:

- A weak light is almost worse than no light... It can do more harm than good...

- Unless you are fighting at bayoneting distances, with a select fire weapon, a VFG also can do more harm than good... If you really want one on your carbine, I suggest mounting it all the way forward...

- The purpose of a rail system for the Military is to mount a number of accessories that most non SF end users will never see other than in pictures...

If your intent is to add a working light to a carbine and still want the option of running a VFG in the forward position I am going to highly recommend the surefire m500a

http://www.thunder-sports.com.tw/images/Product/Big/M500A.jpg

It is much lighter than any rail / light combo, it is basically a M4 double heat shield design with a built in light, pressure switch, a constant on switch, and navigation LEDs. Its 225 lums will be almost twice as bright as anything out there...

It will also accept a VFG mounted in the forward position if you want to run one, and it looks cool too...

Again just my .02

Buck

C4IGrant

12-17-07, 13:15

rob_s

12-17-07, 13:24

It is much lighter than any rail / light combo,

Can you quantify that?

For example, I know that the version of the Scout that I'm running is around 5 oz., and I know that a DD 7.0 weighs 8.5 oz, for a combined total of 13.5 oz. Add in a few rails/covers and call it 15 oz. even.

What does a 500A, plus delta-ring and barrel nut, weigh in at?

I'm not being facetious, I'd really like to know.

BushmasterFanBoy

12-17-07, 13:51

Thanks for all of the replies.
Main thing I have been getting around here is that this thing is going to be really heavy. I appreciate all of the advice, but as I stated before I really do like the looks of this light. It seriously looks nice and since this particular build will be mainly for range use, weight won't be my primary concern. I am already using a small pistol light (that doesn't look near as cool :D ) on my "real" carbine.

Another question for you folks:
In Resq47's picture there seems to be a different tail cap (not sure if thats the correct term), than in the other pictures. I like the look of the tail cap featured in Resq47's picture. It seems more comfortable than the other end buttons. So my question to you guys, is: How does this light operate and what is the different between these two end pieces?

Once again, thank you for all of the replies I have read them all and each one provides me with much information. Thanks!

subzero

12-17-07, 14:54

Thanks for all of the replies.
Main thing I have been getting around here is that this thing is going to be really heavy. I appreciate all of the advice, but as I stated before I really do like the looks of this light. It seriously looks nice and since this particular build will be mainly for range use, weight won't be my primary concern. I am already using a small pistol light (that doesn't look near as cool :D ) on my "real" carbine.

I can't think of much more to say but :rolleyes:

Grant is on the right track IMHO with his incandescent Scouts or WG series lights. A small light that weighs nothing, puts out a ton of light and isn't nearly as spendy as a big honkin SF 9 series? Why wouldn't anyone want that?

Buck

12-17-07, 15:25

Can you quantify that?

For example, I know that the version of the Scout that I'm running is around 5 oz., and I know that a DD 7.0 weighs 8.5 oz, for a combined total of 13.5 oz. Add in a few rails/covers and call it 15 oz. even.

What does a 500A, plus delta-ring and barrel nut, weigh in at?

I'm not being facetious, I'd really like to know.

Surefire's data sheet lists the M500A as 13.0 oz, with the batteries... I am not sure what the delta-ring and barrel nut weigh in at... Perhaps someone will post their weight...

http://www.surefire.com/misc/m500.pdf

and at $300/400 +/- for the entire assembly, it is a lot of bang for the buck... So to speak... ;-)

rob_s

12-17-07, 15:36

Surefire's data sheet lists the M500A as 13.0 oz, with the batteries... I am not sure what the delta-ring and barrel nut weigh in at... Perhaps someone will post their weight...
From the Maryland AR shooter's database they appear to total up to about 3 oz. (delta ring, barrel nut, and handguard cap)

http://www.surefire.com/misc/m500.pdf

and at $300/400 +/- for the entire assembly, it is a lot of bang for the buck... So to speak... ;-)

Is that price/weight for the current version with the nav lights? The diagrams in the .pdf don't appear to be. I'm also seeing what appears to be a MAP for the current model of $515.

At $300 I agree, I'd be very interested.

Buck

12-17-07, 15:43

At $300 I agree, I'd be very interested.

How about $252.50 buy it now???

Such a dealll

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=87162740

Or NIB on a penny auction...

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=87342526

I have one and a spare that I purchased in the $250 range....

Robb Jensen

12-17-07, 15:51

gotm4,
I'm very interested in seeing pics of this setup. Thanks!

I'll ask him to bring it by the shop so I can get some pics of it. It's very nice. You can see about 1/32" of the battery latch on the X200 when it's mounted in front of the LMT front sight down at the bottom of the post.

USMC03

12-17-07, 16:04

IMHO, the SF Scout lights that we build are about the best option there is. Small, light, powerful and QD.

C4

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/SF/M600L%20Side%20view.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/SF/M600L%20lever.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/SF/M600L%20rear%20view.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/SF/M600L%20side%20view1.jpg

I concur. Small and lightweight. I'm running Surefire Scout lights or x300's on all of my long guns:

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s206/molsen2295/USMC03/group%20pics/AllColtLE6920s.jpg?t=1197927823

Semper Fi,
Jeff

Robb Jensen

12-19-07, 21:58

...
I'll be rebuilding the upper on this gun soon and will be low profile 'shaving' the FSB to a gas block, using a 9" Daniel Defense Lite Rail and mounting a Surefire X200 or X300 at 12 o'clock on the muzzle end of the rail and run a LMT MRP rail mounted fixed front sight right behind the light. My barrel actually measures 10 7/16" so I might be able to use a 10" Lite Rail but I doubt it. I'm pretty sure the DD Mk18 rail would fit too, but damn that's a lot of loot!

I assembled an upper just like this for a friend. His has a genuine 10.25" Colt CQBR barrel, 9" Lite Rail, LMT front sight, Colt upper receiver and Colt M16 BCG and PRI Gas Buster and I 'shaved' the FSB down to a low profile gas block and shortened it (in the front) about 1mm to ensure that it was completely under the rail, he has the Surefire 556K suppressor and mount. Very badass looking upper and VERY lightweight.

gotm4,
I'm very interested in seeing pics of this setup. Thanks!

Aubrey as promised here is the pics. He's going to be replacing the large knob on the LMT front sight with a small nyloc-nut and shortening the threaded shaft. I'm going to set mine up very similarly to this but run a Aimpoint T1 in a tall LaRue mount and use my AAC M42K 07 and Tangodown rail covers and the stubby Tangodown forward grip.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/CQBR/cqbr016.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/CQBR/cqbr010.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/CQBR/cqbr006.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/CQBR/cqbr002.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/CQBR/cqbr004.jpg

Here you can see the top of the light, this would be way off the stock if it were on a lower.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/CQBR/cqbr013.jpg

Here almost looking through the sights and you can just barely see a tiny bit almost nothing of the light.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/CQBR/cqbr014.jpg

Rmplstlskn

12-19-07, 23:42

Here is what I just recently put together, which includes a "Poor Man's" weapon light... (Still a work in progress as I find what works for me)

http://www.wwyd.org/images/AR15/Sabre_DEC07 012 (Medium).jpg

INOVA LED light in a DD offset mount... Inova is one tough light, bright and CHEAP in comparision to others shown here...

Rmpl

SIMPLYDYNAMIC

12-20-07, 05:05

Instead of running a Scout, I run a E2D body with a LU60A conversion...inside the conversion is a Malkoff devices P60 Drop in Module.
I have been working with Gene now for a few months and his drop ins are pretty amazing! I have been running extensive and honestly pretty damn rough testing and all is good... my son has even played baseball with the light.
http://malkoffdevices.com

His drop ins are only $55 and $78 for the LU60A coversion kit $110 for E2D. So either spend a wopping $243 or if you have a E2D/E2E body layin around its a great build!

Or the cheap route is a G2 nirtolon $36 and $55 drop in and you have yourself an el cheapO torch!

He is building newer and smaller ones for E2D heads but it is a work in progress. He will be a SHOT this year so feel free to pic his brain.

You can drop this in any 6P style head up to a 9v system (Awsome run time 5.5hrs)

This scout version runs at 230 lumens for 3.5 hours
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y65/simplydynamic/Slide1-3.jpg

This is a standard 6P C2 Centurion next to it....
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y65/simplydynamic/Slide2-3.jpg

Jaeger

12-20-07, 08:08

Travis, have you done any type of comparison testing between the Malkoff and the imported Cree lamps?
I was looking at the Malkoff yesterday and it certainly looks robust. I presume the main advantage is with heat dissipation.

Jaeger

12-20-07, 08:33

You know what Travis, don't worry about replying. I just reread Malkoff's site front to back. I'd much rather my $ went to a Christian American than some Chicom conglomerate.

Pat_D

12-20-07, 11:18

That's my upper GotM4 built. He did an outstandng job for me and I am quite pleased with the results. I have to admit that the 12:00 position for the light works extremely well. You can just "peek" the muzzle around a right or left hand wall and your target is illuminated.

The only thing you lose with this setup is sight radius. By mounting the X200/300 on the top of a 9" rail, I was forced to move my front sight back. It probably has the sight radius of a 7.5 inch gun at this point which isn't the end of the world but it is a compromise nonetheless. It is unlikely my Aimpoint will go down anytime soon but it could happen and that's why the back up sights are there. The fact that they are a little close together on a 100 yards and in shorty probably doesn't make much difference. I think the benefits gained from being able to run the light at 12:00 outweigh the shorter sight radius especially since my Aimpoint is my primary sight.

I am going to buy another Daniel Defense light rail for my 14.5" Colt and set it up similar to this one. I am considering both the 12" and 10" length rail. In the 12" length there is the option of having the factory fixed front sight just stick up through a hole in the rail. Not as clean looking but probably an even stronger setup. I figure with a straight up 12" rail I can mount the light way out at the end of it and with an LMT rail mounted sight have an even longer sight radius than a stock carbine. Probably the sight radius of a mid length gun. We'll see.

twodollarbill

12-20-07, 11:23

Did you ever wake up one of your college buds with a flashlight and yell..... "Look Out.....TRAIN"
If I would of had one of these modern Surefire's then....I would of caused major mental damage!!!

I just upgraded a X200 to the new X300....this light is the BEST!!!!

SIMPLYDYNAMIC

12-20-07, 11:45

You know what Travis, don't worry about replying. I just reread Malkoff's site front to back. I'd much rather my $ went to a Christian American than some Chicom conglomerate.

Gene, is certainly a great Christian American and a great guy to talk to. Will be money well spent...

Im hoping for him to master the E2D Module...he has some prototypes and he says there are running 240+ lumens and approx 3.5hr run time. it would be the T-1 of Lights!

DrMark

12-20-07, 12:06

IMHO, the SF Scout lights that we build are about the best option there is. Small, light, powerful and QD.
Yep, Grant you found a "sweet spot" of a niche in the market.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?search=action&category=GRTA

I appreciate all of the advice, but as I stated before I really do like the looks of this light. It seriously looks nice and since this particular build will be mainly for range use, weight won't be my primary concern. I am already using a small pistol light (that doesn't look near as cool ) on my "real" carbine.

I can't think of much more to say but :rolleyes:

:)

Dave L.

12-20-07, 13:27

IMHO, the SF Scout lights that we build are about the best option there is. Small, light, powerful and QD.

C4

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/SF/M600L%20Side%20view.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/SF/M600L%20lever.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/SF/M600L%20rear%20view.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/SF/M600L%20side%20view1.jpg

Grant,
What does this unit cost as pictured? Is there a Tape Switch for it? How long does it last? How does this set-up compare to the X300?
TIA,
Dave

C4IGrant

12-20-07, 13:37

Grant,
What does this unit cost as pictured? Is there a Tape Switch for it? How long does it last? How does this set-up compare to the X300?
TIA,
Dave

The light setup pictured is $258. You can buy the SF UE07 tape switch for it if you like. This will drive the cost up.

How long does what last? The bulb or the tape switch?

The X300 is an LED and the LU60A uses a standard P60 or P61 bulb (comes with both). You can put a CREE LED or a SF P60L drop in if you want.

Incandescent lights are always going to give you more throw. LED's are always going to take more abuse and give you longer run times.

IMHO, for a CQB/close range righting gun, the X300 or just about any CREE LED will meet your needs.

C4

rhino

12-20-07, 16:25

Here is what I just recently put together, which includes a "Poor Man's" weapon light... (Still a work in progress as I find what works for me)

I also have a poor man's setup. Pelican M3 (9V) was on clearance at BatteryStation.com (no more of them, though!) for $35. Add a Viking Tactics light mount and I've got a 9V, 120+ Lumen weapon light for about $55.

signal4l

12-20-07, 17:35

Gene, is certainly a great Christian American and a great guy to talk to. Will be money well spent...

Im hoping for him to master the E2D Module...he has some prototypes and he says there are running 240+ lumens and approx 3.5hr run time. it would be the T-1 of Lights!

I agree. I would be first in line for a Malkoff E2

Snake

12-21-07, 11:11

C4IGrant

12-21-07, 11:38

Grant,
How much does this setup cost?

Cyrus

$258.

C4

subzero

12-21-07, 14:45

Grant, do these folks a favor and post your WG series lights. Hopefully folks will figure out how good a deal they are.

A 6V or 9V light (your choice) in a Larue offset mount, shock iso bezel and clicky cap for $150. Come on.

http://i13.tinypic.com/6l48ozp.jpg
http://i19.tinypic.com/72v0eth.jpg
http://i6.tinypic.com/8e8gcjr.jpg
http://i15.tinypic.com/6tuu6tc.jpg

Obviously I'm a fan. That's two lights that cost less than a 962 and might weigh less put together. Maybe it's just me, but I like a light and mount that are separate, that way I have tons of leeway over exactly where the light will sit, regardless of what rail space is available.