View Full Version : Getting Started with CCW: Looking for a RELIABLE pocket-sized 9mm
BushmasterFanBoy
01-27-12, 10:28
I'm just now getting my CCW license, and I was thinking of getting a new pistol to actually carry, since up until now all my pistols have been full-sized autos.
I figured I would start by narrowing it down to how I'd actually be comfortable carrying. IWB is nice, but isn't always an option since there's many times I'd have to wear a tucked shirt and no cover garment. (We can't all wear photographer's vests 24/7 :D) So I figured it would be best to look at pocket carry. Admittedly I didn't research every option here, so if anyone has solutions to that, I'm open to them. I decided on pocket carry because I like the fact that I don't have a gun on my hip, and I'm used to carrying my wallet in the front of my pants, so there'd be no real change there either.
The major downside to this is the limited size of the pistol I'd be able to conceal in a pocket holster. I've looked over different brands, such as Kahr, KelTec, Ruger, that make assorted 9mm pocket auto's, but I keep finding reliability issues with each one. I can't really accept having an unreliable CCW piece, especially when it's a primary pistol, not just a BUG for me.
So I guess what I'm looking for is (in this order)
1.Pocket Holster compatable
2.Reliable
3.9mm or larger
It seems simple enough, but I can't really find a straight answer between everyone's claims of unreliable guns, and others saying theirs (of whatever brand) runs great. I only feel comfortable with a 9mm, but if only .380's meet my criteria, I'd tolerate that and start researching whatever loads I'd need to make it work.
If I must, I'd be open to a revolver, but seeing as I never shoot wheelguns, and I've never owned one before, I feel much more comfortable with auto pistols. It's an option; just not what I'd go to first.
Cincinnatus
01-27-12, 10:37
Have you thought about the Glock 26? It is probably one of the only weapons that meets all your criteria, the most restrictive being #1 (pocket Holster carry).
Beyond that, Kahr.
I don't think the new Ruger pocket 9 has really been tested/vetted enough to be ticketed as "reliable" yet.
I vote glock 26 with a IWB holster and tuckable clips. If I can't do that I go with the S&W 642 (I know not 9mm). But I've never found a 9mm auto that I can slip in/out easily of a pocket in the pants I wear. Well unless I put it in a cargo pocket but that draw is really awkward to me. I practiced between: cargo pocket 9mm auto, front pocket 9mm auto, front pocket S&W 642 and tucked IWB glock 26. The tucked glock and 642 ended up being the easiest for me to work with.
Littlelebowski
01-27-12, 10:54
You honestly cannot wear an untucked shirt?
**** photographer's vests. Stupid shit.
Good advice thus far, except that pocket carry is not the best way to start carrying concealed.
If you're new to carrying concealed (and thus new to drawing from concealment) then get a holster and belt that conceal one of your big autos, carry it for a while, maybe take a class with it, and THEN go to pocket carry. This time of year, it's easy to conceal a fairly large pistol under a coat with the right rig.
Okie John
Glock 26 or a Walther PPS.
Littlelebowski
01-27-12, 11:05
BMFB, you need to rethink your whole thought process here. Pocket carry for starting out with CCW is bad. Pocket carry has many drawbacks and really is only for when you can't carry any other way. I don't think you seem to actually have that restricted of a manner of appearance requirements so you really, really should get an IWB and untuck that shirt.
Oh, and have you taken a good pistol training class yet? Another reason not to have a "pocket" pistol.
I agree on the pocket aspect but check out a Walther PPS.
Many threads here on that one.
Quick question do you have any pistols currently?
I second that a pocket gun as your only handgun option is not the best idea.
diving dave
01-27-12, 11:23
Go with a Glock 26, and order a holster from Raven concealment. thank me later...
jmlshooter
01-27-12, 11:30
Can I make a suggestion?
Get a kydex IWB holster. Not injection-molded -- the real McCoy.
Leather is a dead technology (literally and figuratively) for holsters. It offers no advantages and a host of disadvantages.
I carried with a leather IWB holster for years and now feel like an idiot for having done so.
Spurholder
01-27-12, 11:52
You honestly cannot wear an untucked shirt?
**** photographer's vests. Stupid shit.
Exactly. Untucked Polo shirts (the non-fitted variety) work well, and more than satifsy the fashion police over the whole tucked/untucked issue.
Also, a Glock 19 in a RCS Phantom conceals pretty well underneath an untucked shirt.
Good advice thus far, except that pocket carry is not the best way to start carrying concealed.
Thanks for saying that, John. Pocket carry can work for J-frames and little teeny tiny autos, but it's not ideal.
If anyone thinks pocket carry is the bee's knees, try this little experiment:
1) Put your hand in your pocket.
2) Make a fist.
3) Try to pull your fist out of your pocket.
Be sure to perform this experiment with every kind of pants you intend to "pocket carry" in. Then think about whether or not shoving a gun in there is such a hot idea.
BushmasterFanBoy, I'd recommend a quality kydex holster and carry on your waist. IWB or OWB... either can work depending on your wardrobe and body type. Try both. Many people end up with a whole box of unwanted holsters, but my recommendation is to stick to quality kydex and your box o' holsters will remain small and useful. As for a reliable small 9mm... An M&P9C, G26, or similar quality shrinky-dink version of a good fullsize pistol will serve you well. Or, if you really want a single stack: Kahr. After screwing around with Kel-Tec and Ruger, I finally dumped both for Kahr and haven't regretted it.
Also wanted to say: The Dude is right on. **** photographer's vests. More like "shoot me first" vests. Get some polo shirts. Some square-bottomed Cuban or Hawaiian style shirts. Or, step up the class and wear a sportcoat. I find there are pretty much zero social situations where I am required to wear both a tucked dress shirt but yet NOT wear a suit jacket or sportcoat over it.
jmlshooter
01-27-12, 11:56
I like Raven's work. It's high quality, but that's a whole lot of shit to have inside your waistband.
I've really, really enjoyed Kolbeson Leatherworks' IWB Minimum.
It's the best I've used. (This is not an endorsement, paid or otherwise, and I don't have a financial interest in his products)
BushmasterFanBoy
01-27-12, 12:08
Thanks guys. I guess I was just leaning towards pocket carry being the only type of carry that I could ALWAYS use, regardless of dress. I've never drawn from a pocket holster, but the concealability of the small framed pistols I had been checking out really struck a chord. I realize that I'd be giving up a lot if I went that route, but I'd been bombarded by the constant messages of "get a gun you know you will carry" and found myself seriously doubting if a fullsize M&P 9 or HK 45 would be a good carry option
And yes, the tucked-in shirt is a sticking point. :( What are the options for concealing a compact pistol, like a G26, in a holster under a tucked dress shirt?
Thanks guys. I guess I was just leaning towards pocket carry being the only type of carry that I could ALWAYS use, regardless of dress. I've never drawn from a pocket holster, but the concealability of the small framed pistols I had been checking out really struck a chord. I realize that I'd be giving up a lot if I went that route, but I'd been bombarded by the constant messages of "get a gun you know you will carry" and found myself seriously doubting if a fullsize M&P 9 or HK 45 would be a good carry option
And yes, the tucked-in shirt is a sticking point. :( What are the options for concealing a compact pistol, like a G26, in a holster under a tucked dress shirt?
I use a home mode holster by a local guy (http://theisholsters.com/).
And have been very happy with it. They are a lot like crossbreeds etc but a little cheaper and no wait time. The horsehide doesn't soak up sweat and sticks in place pretty good. The clips go over your pants/belt and have a space between the clip and the holster to tuck a shirt into. That is what my g26, g27 and g23 live in when I'm carrying them.
swsmailman
01-27-12, 12:44
Just a quick background, I carry daily and compete in IDPA with a full size M&P 9mm in a Crossbreed supertuck at 3oclock. Untucked shirts and tucked shirts alike, can never tell a difference. Family knows I carry and the last time I wore a fitted suit I was carrying and even my own mother couldn't tell I was carrying. During the winter its really easy for me to throw on a tshirt and jacket and go. During the summer is when it gets interesting, especially being in Texas. Then i just throw on a patterned collared shirt and leave it untucked
If thinking that you cannot not tuck a shirt in and carry IWB is making you get a pocket pistol, there are a lot of companies that make holsters where you can tuck shirts in and most have certain clips you can buy for the holster that help with that. Crossbreed is one of them. Now, I use the regular clips that the supertuck comes with and have a black leather belt to wear with it. The clips become invisible against the black leather. But they also have clips that go behind the belt and some with Velcro if you have Velcro backed belt for better concealment...
Just a great variety of what you could do, just have to figure out what you really want to do.
I do also have a small J frame .357 and a pocket holster for it. But I rarely carry it except when I am in a rush to get somewhere, or when I wear my gym shorts. I just find myself going back to the supertuck and my full size.
One thing that really helps when carrying IWB. Patterned collared shirts or shirts that have some sort of design on them. Really helps to break up the print of the gun when you need it to.
I find there are pretty much zero social situations where I am required to wear both a tucked dress shirt but yet NOT wear a suit jacket or sportcoat over it.
This is apparently a locational thing. I am always wearing a tucked shirt for daily business wear and wearing a coat is quite often impractical from say May thru September.
60buckscash
01-27-12, 13:13
I was carrying a full sized 9mm for a while. Between limiting clothing during the summer and the discomfort of carrying IWB, I made the shift to a Keltec P-11 with a leather pocket holster. I had the holster made to fit the pockets of the pants I mostly wear to minimize printing. I like the Keltec because it is about the smallest 10+1 9mm out there and it fits my paws well. Find something you are comfortable shooting and shoot the snot out of it and play some games(IDPA, USPSA, etc.) with it to help shake you and your gear out.
Yes I have and still do use many different types of carry but I do drink the auto kool-aid.
Like others have said here, with an IWB leather/kydex set up, you'd be VERY surprised what you can conceal! I carry an XD .45 compact daily and it is amazing how well it conceals. I can wear it with a tucked in shirt or just a t-shirt with no printing issues. I carried at my in-laws over Christmas with a tucked in dress shirt and no one was the wiser, not even my wife.
I use a local guy as well. He does great work and priced right;
https://clevelandsholsters.com/IWB_Ugly_Holsters.html
... Crossbreed supertuck at 3oclock. Untucked shirts and tucked shirts alike, can never tell a difference...
Here's another vote for the crossbreed and tucked shirt. Colt Rail Gun.
I thought business casual was going to make it difficult, but it really isn't. You will be surprised.
Another satisfied Crossbreed customer here when it comes to tuckable. I use one with their velcro tabs/belt and I like this setup a lot (commander sized 1911, for reference).
However, my normal carry is OWB kydex with untucked shirt... but I live in gun-friendly territory and "printing" isn't a concern for me. Where do you live? I think printing is sort of just a mental thing unless you live in an oppressive area. My opinion is that the vast majority of people will never notice, and most of those who do generally don't care.
Smuckatelli
01-27-12, 13:53
The pictures are of a Commander IWB, tucked & untucked. There isn't going to be a quick draw with these holsters but it offers a secure way to carry and relatively easy access.
Tango Charlie145
01-27-12, 13:57
Here is a thread you may want to read with reference to reliability.
https://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-77947.html
This same friend recently got a kydex rig from Swinkster on Glocktalk and his CM9 disappears under a polo tucked in and a little material pulled over the top. He too pocket carries the CM9 whenever he is unable to wear his shirt out.
Here is the CM9 kydex rig about 3/4 the way down the page. He is old school and prefers his bullets to the rear-it was the way he was taught.
http://glocktalk.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=1285&cpage=4#poststart
Hope this helps.
TC
Like others have said here, with an IWB leather/kydex set up, you'd be VERY surprised what you can conceal! I carry an XD .45 compact daily and it is amazing how well it conceals. I can wear it with a tucked in shirt or just a t-shirt with no printing issues. I carried at my in-laws over Christmas with a tucked in dress shirt and no one was the wiser, not even my wife.
I use a local guy as well. He does great work and priced right;
https://clevelandsholsters.com/IWB_Ugly_Holsters.html
Good to see you on M4C!
I can also vouch for Clevelands Holsters. My G26 lives in it and it disappears under a loose t-shirt. His holsters are tuckable aswell, so you can wear your standard work attire with them.
+1 I carry fullsize M&P 40 everyday in crossbreed supertuc with shirt tucked in. It can be done. Good belt and holster make a world of differents in accomplishing this.
Just a quick background, I carry daily and compete in IDPA with a full size M&P 9mm in a Crossbreed supertuck at 3oclock. Untucked shirts and tucked shirts alike, can never tell a difference. Family knows I carry and the last time I wore a fitted suit I was carrying and even my own mother couldn't tell I was carrying. During the winter its really easy for me to throw on a tshirt and jacket and go. During the summer is when it gets interesting, especially being in Texas. Then i just throw on a patterned collared shirt and leave it untucked
If thinking that you cannot not tuck a shirt in and carry IWB is making you get a pocket pistol, there are a lot of companies that make holsters where you can tuck shirts in and most have certain clips you can buy for the holster that help with that. Crossbreed is one of them. Now, I use the regular clips that the supertuck comes with and have a black leather belt to wear with it. The clips become invisible against the black leather. But they also have clips that go behind the belt and some with Velcro if you have Velcro backed belt for better concealment...
Just a great variety of what you could do, just have to figure out what you really want to do.
I do also have a small J frame .357 and a pocket holster for it. But I rarely carry it except when I am in a rush to get somewhere, or when I wear my gym shorts. I just find myself going back to the supertuck and my full size.
One thing that really helps when carrying IWB. Patterned collared shirts or shirts that have some sort of design on them. Really helps to break up the print of the gun when you need it to.
+1 I carry fullsize M&P 40 everyday in crossbreed supertuc with shirt tucked in. It can be done. Good belt and holster make a world of differents in accomplishing this.
Yep, if you have a local police supply store go there and see what belts they have. Our local one is very helpfully trying stuff on and finding a good fit.
For me the A. Angel IWB by Dale Fricke properly conceals a GLK 26 with an untucked shirt or jacket. Ditto that a real belt is needed.
Your best advice has been to take some good training classes. One reason is learning essential safety habits. Another is learning proper etiquette to guide your behavior on the range or at the club or in the field.
Many are unwilling to spend the money or go to the trouble to buy a high quality holster and belt and then buy pants with the correct waist size to allow IWB carry.
If you are a new shooter, consider firing 1000 rounds of training ammo before you strap one on.
Also, Glock owners, as a group, have a high incidence of negligent discharges-----because of negligence. Be careful, if you glock.
if you actually want to carry it in your pocket get a j-frame....
IWB, the PPS and glock 26 work well... but then so does the glock 19.
packinaglock
01-27-12, 19:26
Have you thought about the Glock 26? It is probably one of the only weapons that meets all your criteria, the most restrictive being #1 (pocket Holster carry).
Beyond that, Kahr.
I don't think the new Ruger pocket 9 has really been tested/vetted enough to be ticketed as "reliable" yet.
My thoughts exactly!
Alaskapopo
01-27-12, 20:27
You honestly cannot wear an untucked shirt?
**** photographer's vests. Stupid shit.
The vests actually work good up here in the summer because of everyone fishing.
Pat
Alaskapopo
01-27-12, 20:33
For me the A. Angel IWB by Dale Fricke properly conceals a GLK 26 with an untucked shirt or jacket. Ditto that a real belt is needed.
Your best advice has been to take some good training classes. One reason is learning essential safety habits. Another is learning proper etiquette to guide your behavior on the range or at the club or in the field.
Many are unwilling to spend the money or go to the trouble to buy a high quality holster and belt and then buy pants with the correct waist size to allow IWB carry.
If you are a new shooter, consider firing 1000 rounds of training ammo before you strap one on.
Also, Glock owners, as a group, have a high incidence of negligent discharges-----because of negligence. Be careful, if you glock.
Sorry but have to call BS on the remarks in red. I doubt you have a study to quote. Glocks are very popular and more people carry them than most other guns so yes there will be a larger number of negligent discharges simply because there are more Glocks out there. The simple fact is if you practice safe gun handling a Glock will be just fine. If you don't any handgun will get you into trouble. Plenty of ND's logged when cops had DA revolvers.
As ammo and reloading components get more expensive I find myself using my ammo smarter during practice and using less ammo but getting more out of it. Shooting 1000 rounds in the dirt plinking at beer cans is not going to do as much for you as working on the fundamentals and building specific skills.
Pat
Littlelebowski
01-27-12, 20:39
Also, Glock owners, as a group, have a high incidence of negligent discharges-----because of negligence. Be careful, if you glock.
What data are you citing?
Littlelebowski
01-27-12, 20:40
The vests actually work good up here in the summer because of everyone fishing.
Pat
Fair enough and makes sense.
Nephrology
01-27-12, 21:38
For what it's worth, I went on a personal crusade for a summer carry gun last July and went through all the options in my head: Pocket carried LCP, LCR, S&W442, Walther PPS, even an S&W3193. Ultimately I realized I was not comfortable with introducing pocket carry as a variable in my understanding of how to deploy a pistol under stress; in the context of going IWB only, my Glock 26 was an easy call. I already owned a 17 and a 19 as competition and carry/HD pistols, respectively. That I got it for 400 OTD with a free glock 19 magazine made it all the easier!
Another option for tucked in shirts is the SmartCarry.
It may not be as quick as others, but it's another useful tool in the box.
I use one in the summer for my SP101. For the times when pocket carry is necessary, it's a 442 in a Mika.
Littlelebowski, your request for data on negligent discharges by Glock owners put my brain in gear. I have no valid data. I had extrapolated from reports or studies about ND's and Glocks in law enforcement to the large group that includes everybody. Then I realized that a departmental report would not be statiscally relevant to anybody outside of that department. Cohen and Hughes did a study for the Justice Dept in which they tallied Glock NG's during the years 2000-2004. None of these reports compared Glock data to other brand data. Even if they had, a competent writer/researcher would hesitate to cite these data unless they were in a professional journal, or if the writer/researcher had knowldege of the so-called study's design.
So, if I'm to be considered a competent writer/researcher, I must say that I can't substantiate my original statement. I was talking through my hat.
Alaskapopo
01-28-12, 03:21
So, if I'm to be considered a competent writer/researcher, I must say that I can't substantiate my original statement. I was talking through my hat.
Thanks for owning up to that.
Pat
BmFB, Look into Rohrbaugh and see if it fits your bill. I wanted all my CCHs to be of at least 9mm and the R9S as the minimum gives me some piece of mind. Just realize that it might only get you past a doorway and can't reach out and touch someone.
How.about a Glock 19 in Bianchi Belly Band. You can carry pistol and two mags fully concealed under a tucked in shirt
Kahr PM9 in a Galco Angle Glove has worked really well for me in business casual or business suit.
OP, I would look at a tuckable IWB before you go sacrificing barrel length, grip size/shootability, and capacity.
Untucked, I'd go for a Glock 19 or similar. You can conceal just fine with a good belt (AG Gunleather) and a good holster. TT Gunleather is my all time favorite for IWB.
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/Glock/bca1cdd3.jpg
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/Glock/c7bcf9b0.jpg
Tucked, not sure of what to suggest, heard good things about the other tuckable IWBs mentioned here. I'd still look for a G19, M&P 9C, etc.
Pocket guns and sub compacts will leave you regretting your purchase if that's all you have. Even with my medium size hands, I shoot my wife's G26 a hell of a lot worse than the 19. They are however good options when you have no other choice. A Kahr CM9 is another good, slimmer option in the same price range as a G26. In suits, I usually grab the Kahr or LCP. Which I know isn't a 9mm, but it's better than nothing and a good fill in for $200. And it's been just as reliable as my Glocks.
**** photographer's vests. Stupid shit.
:haha:
I have a Kahr CM9 that replaced a Ruger LCP, and it is one of my favorite handguns. FWIW I also have a G26 and G19 and carry the Kahr far more.
caddishatch
01-31-12, 18:52
If you are looking for something that is thin and that I have found reliable, the Walther PPS is a great choice.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.