Poll: best VALUE SPR Optic

[ASH556]

I've decided that having the upper end magnification for this rifle is more important to me than keeping a 1X on the low end. However, without sacrificing too much, I want to keep the low end at 2.5-3X.

That leaves me with:
Leupold VX-R Patrol 3-9
Pros: Mil/Mil, Firedot, lower price, bdc turret avail.
Cons: No zero stop, 3x is higher than 2.5X

Leupold MK4 MR/T 2.5-8X36 M2 Illuminated
Pros: MIL contract SPR scope, zero stop, bdc turret avail.
Cons: Higher price, mil ret/moa knobs, low illum.

Nightforce 2.5-10x24/32
Pros: Also MIL contract SPR scope, best glass, durability
Cons: High Price so used market only, at the mercy of whatever turret/reticle combo available used. Did I mention high price?

[a0cake]

Two more great options to consider at the $599 price point....

http://swfa.com/Vortex-25-10x44-Viper-PST-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P44567.aspx

http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-3-9x42-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P50716.aspx

In my experience both of the above optics perform well above their price point. Both are MIL/MIL.

IMO, the SWFA MIL-QUAD is the better reticle. It is also FFP while the Vortex is SFP. The Vortex has an illuminated reticle while the SWFA does not. The Vortex also has a marginally wider magnification range.

Weigh these options and make a determination. For $600, the performance vs price ratio is extremely high with either of these optics.

[ASH556]

Two more great options to consider at the $599 price point....

http://swfa.com/Vortex-25-10x44-Viper-PST-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P44567.aspx

http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-3-9x42-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P50716.aspx

In my experience both of the above optics perform well above their price point. Both are MIL/MIL.

IMO, the SWFA MIL-QUAD is the better reticle. It is also FFP while the Vortex is SFP. The Vortex has an illuminated reticle while the SWFA does not. The Vortex also has a marginally wider magnification range.

Weigh these options and make a determination. For $600, the performance vs price ratio is extremely high with either of these optics.

I considered the Vortex, but ruled it out due to multiple reports of reticles rotating and also some reports of poor glass clarity. I realize that Vortex has excellent CS, but the DPMS/RRA/Olympic logic applies: the best CS is the one you don't need to use.

I have a hard time with the SS as it still brings TASCO to mind. Is that wrong?

Thanks and keep the input coming!

[a0cake]

I'll start off by saying that if you can find a NF, USO, etc. used but in good condition, with the features that you want, in your price range, that is obviously the right answer.

However, if you cannot find something you can afford from those manufacturers with the features you want, you should definitely consider the options I've brought up.

The Vortex PST and Razor lines are good to go. I've heard some things about the Crossfires having issues occasionally but they're $100 scopes. The company offers a huge range of products from the cheap end of the spectrum to the high end. You've got to judge each range on its own merit.

As far as the SWFA SS's, they ceased to be affiliated with Tasco years ago. They are produced in Japan (this is a good thing not a bad thing).

I've been pleased with my SS 1-4 and SS 3-9. I'm a pretty tough audience when it comes to being impressed by optics. Both track accurately. The clicks are solid and repeatable. I've had 19 MILS dialed on the SS 3-9 and brought it back to 0 without any discernible POI shift at 100M. Such extreme adjustments have a way of making cheaply made optics show their true colors.

If you have any specific questions, please ask.

[skatz11]

Here's another vote for the SS 3-9. It's a great scope. If you don't need the illuminated reticle its the way to go. I was all set on the NF for my SPR, but then I realized I could but the 3-9 for my SPR and an Aimpoint C3 for my carbine for just about the same money.

[Cesiumsponge]

I have no direct experience with the SS variables, but my SS 10x has treated me great on a 308 platform. If I had a choice between SFP and FFP, I would pick FFP in a heartbeat since the ranging scale is automatically accurate at any power. The MIL-QUAD also looks great, my SS fixed has solid mildots.

Have you handled all three of your choices in person yet?

[ASH556]

I have no direct experience with the SS variables, but my SS 10x has treated me great on a 308 platform. If I had a choice between SFP and FFP, I would pick FFP in a heartbeat since the ranging scale is automatically accurate at any power. The MIL-QUAD also looks great, my SS fixed has solid mildots.

Have you handled all three of your choices in person yet?

I've handled the Nightforce and the Leupold MK4(actually just swapped my boltgun w/a 3.5-10 M3 on it for a DD MK18). The problem with the MK4 on my bolt gun was that it was USMC mil dots and full MOA clicks. I really want to go mil/mil.

I've not handled the VX-R 3-9, but it sure looks good on paper. I did check out the VX-R Patrol 1.25-4 tonight at a shop. It seemed nice enough, but I wasn't digging the reticle. The hash marks were too short and fat. I'd prefer thinner and a little more defined.

I guess I'm not totally opposed to the SS or the Vortex. I was all gun-ho about the Vortex, actually until I read of at least 4 of the PST 1-4's having the reticles rotate under recoil. That's no bueno.

I'd really rather have SFP instead of FFP for this scope so that the reticle isn't so small on lower power settings when you need it for closer shots.

I don't want this to be an intermediate scope purchase. I'm not looking for something I'll have to replace in a few years. I want something that'll last forever and do it well.

The major caviat in all this is my budget: $1000 MAX including the mount. That makes it tough, even when shopping used. Even used NF's go for $1100-$1200 w/out a mount. S&B, Swaro, USO, are top of the line for sure, but not going to happen for a grand. Next comes Leupold, but if the TMR is as short, fat, and round as what I saw in the VX-R 1.25-4 tonight, I'm not interested. That pretty much leaves Vortex and SS, but it just seems like there's a gap between $600 and $1200. Nothing much good in that gap.

More input please. What am I missing? $1K is a lot of money and a guy should be able to get a great piece of glass for it.

[The Rat]

Voted for a used NF 2.5-10. If you find one with a mildot reticle and mil adjustments, it will be everything you want. Why not just save for another month or so? It's not that much over your budget.

[ASH556]

So I conferenced with my wonderful wiife and she gave me the go ahead to spend $1200 on glass (the mount is separate)! Is Nightforce my best bet still? Probably so, just checking. Also, I don't see a mil hash reticle. Only mil dots. So mil turrets, mil dot reticle, and zero stop. Am I missing anything? I think that budget should get me into a used Nightforce, right? Anything better at that price? The problem is I've been reading Snipershide too much and over there Nightforce is cheap glass.

[Cesiumsponge]

I haven't been keeping track but did NF unveil any new updates at SHOT? Usually the EE starts filling up with lightly used gear when SHOT shows off the new toys. I'd have no hesitations buying a used NF.

I'm on SH too and while lots of folks there have no problem blowing a ton of money on AIs and S&B, there are plenty of folks running around with Rem 700's and NF too.

[d90king]

At the price point that used Nightforce's can be found, they are very difficult to beat IMHO. I run a 1-4 FC-2 and a 3.5-15 MLR and I am very happy with them both.

Generally they can be found in the $900-$1200 range and they are a lot of glass for that.

I am looking forward to seeing some of Leupolds newer offering due out later in the year...

[Ironman8]

I considered the Vortex, but ruled it out due to multiple reports of reticles rotating and also some reports of poor glass clarity. I realize that Vortex has excellent CS, but the DPMS/RRA/Olympic logic applies: the best CS is the one you don't need to use.

I have a hard time with the SS as it still brings TASCO to mind. Is that wrong?

Thanks and keep the input coming!

I have a 2.5-10x PST and can tell you that glass clarity is as good as you can ask for. I can't speak to the durability or any future problems with the reticle rotating (first I had heard about that), but can assure you that you won't be unhappy with the clarity. If the NF has better clarity, I would bet money on the fact that it doesn't have $600 worth of better glass. I really like mine, especially the hash marks vs the dots...much more precise IMO. The only problem is finding them in stock...

[Cesiumsponge]

...I would bet money on the fact that it doesn't have $600 worth of better glass.

I wouldn't bet you because it's true. However, performance doesn't go up linearly with price except at the low end. Maybe you can double performance going from a $100 optic to a $200 optic, but the higher you climb up the performance ladder, the more you're going to pay just to get a wee bit more. Going from a $1500 to $3000 optic isn't going to double your performance. At the very top, you might only squeeze out another 5%. Once you get past the $1000 mark, you're generally in safe territory.

Folks are paying over $3000 for things like Kahles or Premier Reticles...they aren't 10x clearer than a $300 Weaver. I purchased a US Optics north of $2500...I know it isn't twice as good as a Leupold in clarity but it is better. Us gun folks aren't very demanding on optical clarity anyhow. No one here has tried to quantify differences with resolution charts or brought up terms like chromatic aberration. I think I've only recalled one fellow that did it on a thread years ago. You want to see optical wankery, check out birdwatcher and DSLR forums. They're a thousand times more demanding than us.

[bubba04]

this is the route I am thinking I am going to go on my m14.

I would have thought the reticle could not rotate since its engraved into the glass???


I have a 2.5-10x PST and can tell you that glass clarity is as good as you can ask for. I can't speak to the durability or any future problems with the reticle rotating (first I had heard about that), but can assure you that you won't be unhappy with the clarity. If the NF has better clarity, I would bet money on the fact that it doesn't have $600 worth of better glass. I really like mine, especially the hash marks vs the dots...much more precise IMO. The only problem is finding them in stock...

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

I put in my vote baised on money is now object. But I'm happy with my 650$ Horus Hawk.