View Full Version : stupid nfa question
i bought a mossberg persuader 12ga. shot gun with a pistol grip. so it was bought as a handgun. what do i have to do to put a proper rifle stock on it? what is the nfa process for this? it couldn't be an sbs or sbr because it has a 18.5" barrel. what would it be considered? an aow?
Was it registered from the factory as a pistol receiver?
Or, did someone sell it to you as a pistol just because of the grip? I think that might matter.
You can put a regular shotgun stock on it. Mossberg typically sells the Persuader with both a stock and a pistol grip.
Eurodriver
01-29-12, 11:50
Making a rifle/shotgun out of a pistol is OK.
making a pistol out of a rifle/shotgun is not.
thank you. i do not remember how the shotgun was registered (weather or not the receiver is registered as a handgun by mossberg or if was sold to me as pistol simply because it had a pistol grip on it.). i bought it some time ago. it was however, sold to me as a handgun. and it was sold to me with a pistol grip on it (no rifle stock).
Did you buy it privately or through an FFL?
If privately then you would need to confirm that this was originally sold as a pistol or not. If it was sold by an FFL as a pistol then that makes it a pistol and then you can proceed as advised above.
loganp0916
01-29-12, 15:54
Making a rifle/shotgun out of a pistol is OK.
making a pistol out of a rifle/shotgun is not.
Now, what exactly do you mean by "making a pistol out of a shotgun"? I was under the impression that you could put a pistol grip on a shotgun but as long as the barrel is 18" or longer you're good. Is that false?
Eurodriver
01-29-12, 16:53
Now, what exactly do you mean by "making a pistol out of a shotgun"? I was under the impression that you could put a pistol grip on a shotgun but as long as the barrel is 18" or longer you're good. Is that false?
To be honest, I'm not sure how it works with shotguns.
But I know that its always ok to go from shorter to longer and never the reverse.
Polymerhead
01-29-12, 17:23
What do I have to do to put a proper rifle stock on it? what is the nfa process for this? it couldn't be an sbs or sbr because it has a 18.5" barrel. what would it be considered? an aow?
Just put a stock on it. There's nothing special about the pistol-gripped shotguns to the average person. It's treated as a normal non-NFA firearm. If you want to SBS it, then pay the $200 and then you can cut the barrel.
Making a rifle/shotgun out of a pistol is OK.
With restrictions...
--------------------------------------
(M24) If a person has a pistol and
an attachable shoulder stock, does
this constitute possession of an
NFA firearm?
Yes, unless the barrel of the pistol
is at least 16 inches in length (and the
overall length of the firearm with stock
attached is at least 26 inches). However,
certain stocked handguns, such
as original semiautomatic Mauser
"Broomhandles" and Lugers, have
been removed from the purview of the
NFA as collectors' items.
[26 U.S.C. 5845, 27 CFR 479.11]
----------------------------------------------
http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf pg. 189
So if your shotgun is over 26" now with that 18.5" barrel and pistol grip you are ok. If any of that changes, it would become an AOW.
So if your shotgun is over 26" now with that 18.5" barrel and pistol grip you are ok. If any of that changes, it would become an AOW.
Not quite, it doesn't have to have to be an overall length of 26 inches if it has the pistol grip.
OP, you're good to go to put a stock on it as long as the barrel is 18 inches or longer. It doesn't matter how it was originally entered into the system.
Eurodriver
01-29-12, 18:49
With restrictions...
--------------------------------------
(M24) If a person has a pistol and
an attachable shoulder stock, does
this constitute possession of an
NFA firearm?
Yes, unless the barrel of the pistol
is at least 16 inches in length (and the
overall length of the firearm with stock
attached is at least 26 inches). However,
certain stocked handguns, such
as original semiautomatic Mauser
"Broomhandles" and Lugers, have
been removed from the purview of the
NFA as collectors' items.
[26 U.S.C. 5845, 27 CFR 479.11]
----------------------------------------------
http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf pg. 189
So if your shotgun is over 26" now with that 18.5" barrel and pistol grip you are ok. If any of that changes, it would become an AOW.
I don't see any restrictions?
I said if you make a rifle out of a pistol you are OK.
I did not say you can make a short barreled rifle out of a pistol and be OK.
loganp0916
01-29-12, 19:30
So if your shotgun is over 26" now with that 18.5" barrel and pistol grip you are ok. If any of that changes, it would become an AOW.
Answers my question. Sorry, I didn't see it before.
More backround info. Was bought at a gunshow booth (ffl) was bought as a handgun. Was bought factory new. Barrel is 18.5" with no plans to change. So I am gtg?
Yes, you're good to go. It doesn't matter at all what it was bought as, as long as you keep the barrel at that length you can put any stock on it you want.
I have never known a 12 ga shotgun, regardless of barrel length, to be considered a pistol by ATF. The lack of a rifled barrel, the approximate .72 caliber bore and lack of pistol caliber equivalent to 12 ga (like the 45 lc is to.410) prevents it from being considered a pistol under Federal law. If the barrel of the shotgun is less than 18 inches or the overall length is less than 26 inches, ATF considers it an AOW or SBS.
With a barrel length of 18 inches or more and an overall length of at least 26 inches, regardless of stock or pistol grip, it is a shotgun. (As many others have pointed out)
More backround info. Was bought at a gunshow booth (ffl) was bought as a handgun. Was bought factory new. Barrel is 18.5" with no plans to change. So I am gtg?
It is not a handgun, Should have been bought as "other".
....under the NFA, barrel length is relevant only in regard to rifles and shotguns. Firearms that come equipped with a pistol grip in place of a buttstock are not "shotguns" as defined by the NFA. Therefore, in determining whether a firearm is "capable of being concealed on the person," barrel length is considered only to the extent that it constitutes a portion of the overall-length measurement of a firearm.... -- ATF Firearms Technology Branch letter in response to Len Savage, Historic Arms LLC, 27 May 2010 request for clarification
It is not a handgun, Should have been bought as "other".
it was along time ago so i don't remember exactly what the paperwork said when i was filling it out at that busy gun show booth. but one thing i clearly remember was a conversation i overheard between a vendor and a costumer with an out of state drivers licence......"i cant sell you anything with a pistol grip on it because they are categorized as pistols and you would need a pa id to get one, i can however sell you any rifle." that is what i heard. so based on that and the fact that my mossberg was bought with a pistol grip on it, i thought it was considered a handgun.
it was along time ago so i don't remember exactly what the paperwork said when i was filling it out at that busy gun show booth. but one thing i clearly remember was a conversation i overheard between a vendor and a costumer with an out of state drivers licence......"i cant sell you anything with a pistol grip on it because they are categorized as pistols and you would need a pa id to get one, i can however sell you any rifle." that is what i heard. so based on that and the fact that my mossberg was bought with a pistol grip on it, i thought it was considered a handgun.
He was generally right but used the wrong words. Only rifles or shotguns can be be sold to out-of-state customers, a PGO Shotgun is neither so it cannot be sold.
It's because it should have been sold as an "other" and "other's" can only be sold to those 21 and up and in state residence. Example is a stripped AR lower.
You do not have an NFA item.
You have no intention of making an NFA item ( which I didn't understand at first ) since you are asking about NFA.
You bought a non-NFA other.
You will have a non-NFA shotgun when you are done.
Question 18. T)'pe of Fireal'm(s): Check all boxes that apply. "Other"
refers to frames, receivers and other firearms that arc not either handguns or
long guns (rifles or shotguns), such as fireanns having a pistol grip that expel
a shOlgun shell, or National Firearms Act (NFA) firearms.
If a frame or receiver can only be made into a long gun (rifle or shotgun), it is
still a frame or receiver not a handgun or long gun. However, they still arc
"firearms" by definition. and subject to the same GCA limitations as any other
firearms. See Section 92 I(a)(3)(b). 18 U.S.C. Section 922(b)(1) makes it
unlawful for a licensee to sell any firearm other than a shotgun or rifle to any
person undcr the age of 21. Since a frame or receiver for a firearm. to include
one rhat can only be made into a long gun, is a "firearm other than a shotgun
or riflc." it cannot be transferred to anyone under the age of 21, Also, note
that multiple sales forms arc not required for frames or receivers of any
firearms, or pistol grip shotguns, since they are not "pistols or revolvers"
under Section 923(g)(3)(a).
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.