Red dots turning into red worms! [Archive]

Clubhunter

01-29-12, 16:09

Went to the range this am and was sighting in my Colt LE 6940 with the Aimpoint M4s. I have a stigmatism and I think it was affecting my view. The red dot became a line the angles off to the left at about 8 o'clock. Have any of you experienced this? I remember looking through the M4 in the living room with my glasses on and looked perfect.
Oh, got it sighted in using the right side of the line point.

seb5

01-29-12, 16:25

Shooters with astigmatism are known to have issues with red dots. My wife has the problem and she describes the red dot as a bundle of grapes. That little problem is why she now has a TA-44SG ACOG on her carbine. Sometimes you can turn is down and it can help.

TAZ

01-29-12, 16:34

Yup. Astigmatism or even allergies can do that. Most likely your astigmatism. I have slight astigmatism in my dominant left eye and when I look through a red dot without glasses the dot is oval or blooming. With glasses it's normal. Contacts also have some blooming, but it's doable. Just don't think contacts are as efficient with astigmatism as glasses. I have also noticed that when my allergies are kicking ass my vision is affected cause my eyes water.

usmcvet

01-29-12, 17:16

When I am tired my astigmatism is worse. I see grapes too. Try turning it down. That works best for me.

usmcvet

01-29-12, 17:39

Good thread here:

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=73405

Cesiumsponge

01-29-12, 18:16

Another guy with football shaped eyes checking in. Grapes without corrective lenses, woo!

Skang

01-29-12, 18:23

I returned mine, because it looked like dead dried worm to my eyes. :D

darr3239

01-29-12, 18:33

Yep. My dot looks like a mostly upside down "Y", when I use a sight that only has a single dot. When I use my Eotech however, especially with the brightness turned down a little, the sight looks more or less like it should.

I thought at first it was my contacts, since my right "shooting" eye is for closer up, and my left eye is long distance. When I switch shoulders and use my left eye the dot is better, but still not a round dot. I guess I have astigmatisms in both eyes. :(

I guess that leaves me with no further purchases of single dot sights.

Cesiumsponge

01-29-12, 19:57

Its like being drunk...pick one dot and stick with it?

Clubhunter

01-29-12, 20:38

Good to hear there are others that have similar issues. I did try turning it down and got a skinnier worm. I'll try the glasses and see if that helps but until then I believe I'll stick with the right side of the worm. Thanks for the input.

Cesiumsponge

01-29-12, 20:55

Glasses or contacts that correct for astigmatism will fix it. I have football shaped eyes and nearsightedness. Popping on some cheaters will make the aberration go away.

montrala

01-30-12, 09:27

Going for larger dot can help as well. I have astigmatism and do not use glasses. I changed my M4S with 2MOA dot in favour of MictoT1 with 4MOA dot and it helped. However it is good to try first, before changing sight.

Also this effect is more pronounced indoors (very short ranges) and when focusing eyes on the dot. When taken out and looking for ranges more than few yrds or fts with focus on target (preferably both eye open, as it should be with RDS) dot also comes back to proper shape.

CarlosDJackal

02-02-12, 15:51

Clubhunter

02-02-12, 16:37

I went back to the eye doc and we got my left eye better. My right(shooting eye) needs adjustment. Dot seemed better but no where as clear as the TR24 was. Who ever suggested that knew what they were talking about.

darr3239

02-02-12, 17:44

Have you tried looking at the dot through a peep sight? Since our eyes searches for things in a circular pattern, this supposedly forces the dot to be rounder. If I want to take an accuracy shot I do just this so that I can use a better defined dot.

Tied this out on my irons. While using the close distance large flip sight there was no difference. When I flipped to the small aperature long distance sight the dot did indeed get round. Unfortunately, when you use the small aperature, you lose the wide field of vision. That's supposedly what RDSs are all about with two eyes open, as they are designed for CQB.

Scopes are the long range, precision masters, especially when your eyes get older.

dlrob

02-02-12, 20:46

I have the same problem with my Aimpoints. I've tried all the above suggestions and none corrected the problem. Since switching to a TR-24, problem solved. Whether I have my contacts in or not, it's nice and clear. Although I love the versatility of the scope as well, for me at least, it was worth the switch for the clear reticle alone.

evo03

02-02-12, 21:14

I just sent my Aimpoint PRO back because it looked like there was a partial fingerprint that the dot was reflecting through. Tried cleaning the lenses but still was there so I figured it must be on the inside. Maybe its just my eyes. Man it sucks getting old.

Pilgrim

02-02-12, 21:21

I'm coming up on 48 years old, and have a terrible time trying to hit with either an Aimpoint or EOTech... looks like a comet with a tail to me!

Thank God for the TR-24 with it's crystal clear green triangle.

The_War_Wagon

02-02-12, 21:24

I had to dump my EOTechs because of astigmatism - the holographic dots began 'swimming' on me.

I switched TO Aimpoints as a fix, but if you don't mind a BIG dot, the Trijicon RX30 also worked GREAT for me.

I FINALLY (after fighting it since the summer of '08!!!) got bifocals (no line) in November! Actually getting the RIGHT eyeglasses on helps considerably, too! :o

RogerinTPA

02-02-12, 21:41

Cesiumsponge

02-02-12, 22:40

Deteriorating eyesight is so gradual that you won't notice it. It's not like you wake up one day and notice everything is 20% more blurry. I went years without glasses and figured what I saw was normal. I was skeptical that I needed cheaters at all until the optometrist stuck them on my face after they came back from the lab and I thought, "holy ****...I can see!"

blackscot

02-06-12, 10:03

You are most definitely not the only one. Every few months (or less) a thread appears on this subject. I am usually among the "me too" respondents.

Any optic with an adjustable diopter (like most if not all scopes) should resolve the issue. Unfortunately, no 1X red dots I am aware of have this feature. Likewise, any scope will add significantly more heft than the many lightweight red dots now available. So -- like the many issues we face both in shooting and in life -- a trade-off is the best that can be achieved.

If going with a red dot, be glad if you can find glasses that at least provide a partial correction. For a long time, glasses only made it worse for me: the so-called "dot" went from being a grape cluster bare-eyed to something resembling roadkill wearing the glasses. My eyes have continued to change though (I turn 54 tomorrow), and 125 glasses now provide a partial improvement. Not perfect, but the bare-eyed grape cluster usually goes to a single dot but now with a "comet tail" or similar distortion (depending on any illness or fatigue that as others have indicated can also influence). At least I can usually tell what part of the image to align with the target, and the lesser weight compared to a scope makes holding and moving around with the gun a bit easier. Again, all about trade-offs.

Good luck sorting it out.

Cesiumsponge

02-06-12, 13:20

This might sound strange, but paying more for higher quality lenses for your glasses help too, and going to a better optometrist who takes more measurements than the bare minimum to fit glasses. Frames sit differently on everyone's face so the center of the lens needs to be ground on-axis with your eyeball for best performance. I noticed a big improvement in optical performance going from genetic Lenscrafters or chain store (the DPMS of the optical world) stuff to better lenses and a good frame from a small business with an optometerist and optician that took the time to fit me. I'm currently using Zeiss digitally profiled single vision lenses with one of Zeiss's AR/scratch coatings. For us wearing cheaters, might as well spend the money on good optics since we look through them every day of our lives.

blackscot

02-06-12, 13:44

.....paying more for higher quality lenses for your glasses help too, and going to a better optometrist who takes more measurements than the bare minimum to fit glasses. Frames sit differently on everyone's face so the center of the lens needs to be ground on-axis with your eyeball for best performance.....

Sage advice which I should consider better, especially the fitting aspects. A nearby optometrist is also a member of my shooting club and has somewhat of a specialty in fitting glasses for shooters. I've heard nothing but good about him and should probably call for a visit.

ricksterr

02-06-12, 22:50

tucsonan

02-06-12, 23:29

Strangely, I have noticed that sometimes older aimpoints have a dot that appears much more crisply to me. I don't know the model numbers but the T-1 and M4s have never looked like perfectly round dots when compared side by side with the older units.

cabbynate

02-18-12, 02:32

Have you tried looking at the dot through a peep sight? Since our eyes searches for things in a circular pattern, this supposedly forces the dot to be rounder. If I want to take an accuracy shot I do just this so that I can use a better defined dot.

This works and it works well. It's amazing as it is still fast. Even better if you have a flip up front sight. Just leave it down and out of the way..

Just a Jarhead

02-18-12, 05:06

I've been having problems with aimpoints even with corrective lenses. Although with the trijicon RMR and contacts (no astigmatism correction) I get a perfect dot, and with glasses (corrected for astigmatism) I get a blurry dot on the trijicon. When I flip my aimpoint 3x magnifier things get oh-so worse.

That's odd. You would think if contacts clears up the grapes so would corrective lenses. I have an RMR & I wear contacts. Without them I'm like most of you...cluster of grapes. With contacts or with corrective lenses ( I have multiple pairs) I get a perfect sharp dot. I'd try other lenses if I were you. That just doesn't sound logical that lenses wouldn't clear up the grapes if contacts do. Also I'm thinking any of you who are seeing grapes definitely it's time for an eye exam.

Heidevolk

02-18-12, 09:35

I have a severe astigmatism that corrective lenses don't seem to fix properly. When I had contacts, they had to be heavily weighted on one side and every time I blinked would go blurry... very annoying :( Maybe eye surgery would fix this issue, but I see how for some people there's not really a way to get around the issue with Red Dots and the need to opt for something like the TR24 instead.

I never really liked the idea of 3X optics like the ACOG, but when I looked through one the first time I thought "holy crap, that's clear!"

Tomac

02-18-12, 12:21

I have astigmatism as well and find Aimpoint/Eotech reticles have varying degrees of distortion (depending upon size of the dot).
The Leupold Prismatic is the closest optic I'm aware of that's 1x and has an adjustable diopter to correct for astigmatism.
It's not perfect (still has the typical magnified optic characteristics of parallax and eye relief) but may be an option for those w/extreme astigmatism that don't want the weight/size of a variable.
Tomac

blackscot

02-21-12, 06:52

.....The Leupold Prismatic.....has an adjustable diopter to correct for astigmatism.

.....may be an option for those w/extreme astigmatism that don't want the weight/size of a variable.
Tomac

12 oz.s plus however much the mount adds. The adjustable diopter requires some additional metal.

Tomac

02-21-12, 07:12

12 oz.s plus however much the mount adds. The adjustable diopter requires some additional metal.

That weight includes the mount, illumination module and adjustable diopter.
Tomac

Submariner

02-21-12, 09:30

It may be prudent to get a new eye exam. I am guilty of going for 4 or more years without an eye exam. Ego aside, a current assessment from an eye Doc for aging eyes might be the ticket to bring that RDS image into proper focus.

Take your Aimpoint with you to the exam and explain to the doc what you are trying to accomplish. He/she can work with you to reduce the distortion in the dot.

RogerinTPA

02-21-12, 10:04

Take your Aimpoint with you to the exam and explain to the doc what you are trying to accomplish. He/she can work with you to reduce the distortion in the dot.

Thanks, but the dot isn't blurry anymore. I was just giving advice. My first RDS, many years ago, clued me in on getting a current eye exam, and a new prescription, hence the blurriness is long gone.

blackscot

02-21-12, 12:37

That weight includes the mount, illumination module and adjustable diopter.
Tomac

I figured the module was included in the weight spec, and of course the diopter is an intrinsic component of the unit. Didn't know the mount was included too though -- that helps.

Lighter than just about any variable, but heavier than a non-diopter-adjustable Aimpoint or Eotech. Get choice of fuzzy-light or heavy-clear.

Clubhunter

02-25-12, 18:28

Quick question, I was looking at the TR24 but was wondering if my problem could be fixed with an ACOG in a 3x or 4x?

blackscot

02-27-12, 08:14

Quick question, I was looking at the TR24 but was wondering if my problem could be fixed with an ACOG in a 3x or 4x?

For astigmatism, the feature you need on any optic is an adjustable diopter, which are usually found on rifle scopes along with telescopes, binoculars, etc. To my knowledge, none of the ACOG's have that.

bsmith_shoot

02-27-12, 10:44

Just a Jarhead

02-27-12, 11:49

So, from what I gather, the 2moa dots are worse with astigmatism than the 4moa? The reason I ask, I just got, and mounted, a new 2moa, and it looks like a paint splatter to me. Im really dissapointed with it at this point. Would trading for a 4moa help me? Or do I need an optic change all together?
Thanks,
Brandon

Only thing to be disappointed in is that you're a human and you're deteriorating with age like the rest of us. There's nothing wrong with your RDS. Just time for an eye exam.

bsmith_shoot

02-27-12, 13:35

Only thing to be disappointed in is that you're a human and you're deteriorating with age like the rest of us. There's nothing wrong with your RDS. Just time for an eye exam.
So what are my options? With an eye exam, what can they do if they do find astigmatisms? Will contacts or glasses fix the problem?
Thanks,
Brandon

usmcvet

02-27-12, 19:45

So, from what I gather, the 2moa dots are worse with astigmatism than the 4moa? The reason I ask, I just got, and mounted, a new 2moa, and it looks like a paint splatter to me. Im really dissapointed with it at this point. Would trading for a 4moa help me? Or do I need an optic change all together?
Thanks,
Brandon

What setting is it on? I need to turn mine down of I get that effect too.

bsmith_shoot

02-27-12, 20:23

What setting is it on? I need to turn mine down of I get that effect too.
Well, its kinda weird, but ive never had this issue with any RDS ive owned. I have run Eotech 512, 552, Aimpoint M2, M3, and 4moa T1's, and never had any bloom with my dots. Ive been using RDS for about 10 years, with 8 quality training classes under my belt, and over 3 years in fugitive apprehension. I train once a month, rain, snow, and bad weather of no kind stops us. Im not a expert, just an end user, but I do know how to use my RDS.
What im worried about is this, ive been away from the red dot for a while now , using 1-4x scopes exclusively. In that time, have I developed an issue with my eyes? Is it an astigmatism? No matter what setting I set the 2moa on, it looks like a paint splatter, or maybe an octopus, lol. Could it be an issue with the T1, or is it my eyes, I wonder? If it is my eyes, what can the eye doc do to fix the problem? Ive never had nothing but perfect vision, so I know nothing about eye doctors.
Thanks,
Brandon

usmcvet

02-27-12, 20:40

I started wearing glasses two years ago while reading and using the computer. Now I really should be wearing them 80 % of the time.

kiwi57

02-27-12, 22:07

bsmith_shoot,

The eye exam recommendation is a solid idea. I'd suggest a complete dilated exam and correction if indicated by an ophthalmologist (MD) or doctor of optometry (OD). Check with friends/family for recommendations--or your primary care doc if you have one. There are a number of other problems that can cause visual changes besides a need for glasses and should be ruled out. These professionals can supply answers in short order.

I got glasses many years ago when I turned 28. I had perfect vision when I was in the service and the decline snuck right up on me. I was amazed the first time I wore glasses, trees actually had individual leaves.

Kiwi57

bsmith_shoot

02-27-12, 22:18

bp7178

02-27-12, 23:11

Try looking at the Aimpoint dot through the rear BUIS aperture, the smaller one if possible, ignoring the front BUIS.

You'll probably find the Aimpoint dot is perfectly spherical.

lifebreath

02-27-12, 23:18

I've got a pretty severe astigmatism, but with good prescription shooting glasses, I have no problems with rds or other optics.

blackscot

02-28-12, 06:23

.....ive been away from the red dot for a while now.....
......In that time, have I developed an issue with my eyes? Is it an astigmatism?.......
......it looks like a paint splatter, or maybe an octopus, lol. Could it be an issue with the T1, or is it my eyes, I wonder?......
......Ive never had nothing but perfect vision.......

I had eyes like a hawk until my early 40's. Then things got a little fuzzier with each passing year. Before long I was wearing reading glasses, and needing a little more powerful pair every couple of years or so. Now at age 54, I need 200's to read most printing without difficulty.

Also, the originally sharp dot on my Aimpoint gradually morphed first into a Micky Mouse head, and eventually a cluster of grapes. At first any glasses made it worse, turning the image into a roadkill-like splat. Just recently though, I discovered that 125's now actually clear it up a bit. My left eye sees only a single dot, which is also with my right eye but with a bit of a comet tail. At least I can now tell what part of the image to align with the target, and with this set-up have been able to shoot as well as my other limitations will allow.

Once you reach my age, correcting for eye condition is a "moving target", so I expect future adjustments will continue to be needed. Good luck to everyone else getting older (which is better than the alternative :sarcastic: ).

Spiffums

02-28-12, 12:03

I have light starbursts with and without glasses/contacts. I just dial down 1 setting and I get a usable dot.

bsmith_shoot

02-28-12, 21:50

Update from my findings.
I took the advice of several members here, and tried out a few things. First off, I flipped up the sights to view the dot through the ghost ring. It helped a ton. Next I moved the optic around on the rail, and found it was better again when it was farther away. When I put those things together with lowering the power a little, it made a really usable dot. I still had a "tail" that come off the bottom and swept to the left, but the main dot was good.
My next step is an eye exam. I hope to completely fix the problem with some kind of corrective procedure, whether glasses/contacts or surgery.
Thanks for the advice.
Brandon

Turnkey11

03-16-12, 23:43

The finer the dot, the better it is. All my Aimpoint T-1s look fuzzy, even comet shaped with a magnifier. The Aimpoint M4S 2moa and Eotech center dots look like crisp dots, with or without a magnifier.

Striker

03-17-12, 01:56

I have astigmatism as well and wear corrective lenses. The 4 moa dot of an Aimpoint ML-2 looks like a comma to my eyes. It's usable, but it certainly does not look like a sphere. An Eotech reticle looks like an actual dot surrounded by a flaming circle for me, which is fine.

Though I haven't tried one, I remember reading here that an ACOG is a viable alternative for people that can't use a red dot.

globeguy

03-17-12, 09:54

I also suffer from some astigmatism. I find that the closer to the rear I have my T1 the rounder the dot gets. Currently my T1 sits just far enough from the rear sight so that I can put the bikini covers on when cleaning my rifle.

eldogg

03-17-12, 22:11

the Leupold Prismatic 1x14mm Tactical Sight
has a focusing eyepiece. if you don't wear glasses to correct a
astigmatism, and want a 1x sight, this will work.

wingspar

03-19-12, 13:53

Interesting thread. Glad I found it and read thru it. I’m 65 with minor astigmatism and have never used a scope or a red dot in my life. I’m in the process of researching them now and hope to have one by summer. Just had an eye exam this month, and my suspicions were confirmed. My eyesight is getting better for distance, and worse for reading. I never wear my glasses when shooting. To blurry. I do wear eye protection.

Since I have no experience with RD’s or scopes, I have no input, but one question. Is this “grape dot” a problem with both red dots and 1-4 scopes?

usmcvet

03-19-12, 14:51

sadmin

03-19-12, 16:34

The 1-4 TR24 I had worked perfect with my astigmatism. 4 MOA is not good for me. 2 MOA works for me. If you can try before buying you should know right away. I didn't try first and it cost me some ti.e and money.

Same here, 2 MOA is the only way to fly with an astigmatism. Just ordered another PRO to replace my XPS.

blackscot

03-20-12, 06:01

.......Is this “grape dot” a problem with both red dots and 1-4 scopes?

What you need is an optic with a feature called an adjustable diopter. This is basically a focus adjustment at the shooter's end of the piece. For example, most binoculars have this. Most if not all rifle scopes do too (including 1-4X's).

Most 1X red dots do not have an adjustable diopter, other than the notable exception below. You should further note, however, that this model is substantially heavier and bulkier than some of the most popular non-adjustable red dots like the Aimpoint Micro. So it's a trade-off for image quality vs weight/bulk.

the Leupold Prismatic 1x14mm Tactical Sight
has a focusing eyepiece. if you don't wear glasses to correct a
astigmatism, and want a 1x sight, this will work.

wingspar

03-20-12, 13:29

What you need is an optic with a feature called an adjustable diopter. This is basically a focus adjustment at the shooter's end of the piece. For example, most binoculars have this. Most if not all rifle scopes do too (including 1-4X's).

Most 1X red dots do not have an adjustable diopter, other than the notable exception below. You should further note, however, that this model is substantially heavier and bulkier than some of the most popular non-adjustable red dots like the Aimpoint Micro. So it's a trade-off for image quality vs weight/bulk.

I read about the adjustable diopter in one of your earlier posts. That Leupold Prismatic looks nice. I like the red cross hairs. So most 1-4 scopes have adjustable diopters?

Striker

03-20-12, 19:14

I read about the adjustable diopter in one of your earlier posts. That Leupold Prismatic looks nice. I like the red cross hairs. So most 1-4 scopes have adjustable diopters?

I think it's going to depend on what you use it for. I read up on it and what bothered me was fifteen hours of battery life compared to 30,000 on an Aimpoint Pro. Now, I understand that fifteen is on full brightness, but really, fifteen? That's not even left on for one full day. I get when you have astigmatism, there is no perfect answer, but with fifteen hours of battery life, I think I would rather live with a 2MOA comma recticle from an aimpoint or a dot and ring of fire reticle from an Eotech. It's obviously an individual decision, but changing batteries that often, at least to me, is asking to have your optic go down at the wrong time. Now, if you're not going to use it for defense or duty, I guess it doesn't really matter as much; but it would still be annoying to me.

blackscot

03-21-12, 09:54

......So most 1-4 scopes have adjustable diopters?

Yup, but also generally heavy and bulky. You're looking at 1 to 1&1/2 pounds with the mount included, versus 3-5 ounces for an Aimpoint Micro (depending on the mount used). Choice depends what's more important to you.

halmbarte

03-21-12, 10:23

If you go to your eye doc, take a red dot in with you (probably better to remove it from the gun) and explain what you're trying to do.

Most people don't need the level of astigmatism correction that shooters with a RDS do. RDS's show off any astigmatism that you have because of how they work.

The dot will look better on a bright day because your pupil is acting as a aperture and reducing the cone of light that falls on your retina. You get the same effect from looking at the dot thru the rear sight.

H

wingspar

03-21-12, 12:47

I think it's going to depend on what you use it for. I read up on it and what bothered me was fifteen hours of battery life compared to 30,000 on an Aimpoint Pro. Now, I understand that fifteen is on full brightness, but really, fifteen? That's not even left on for one full day. I get when you have astigmatism, there is no perfect answer, but with fifteen hours of battery life, I think I would rather live with a 2MOA comma recticle from an aimpoint or a dot and ring of fire reticle from an Eotech. It's obviously an individual decision, but changing batteries that often, at least to me, is asking to have your optic go down at the wrong time. Now, if you're not going to use it for defense or duty, I guess it doesn't really matter as much; but it would still be annoying to me.

Use will probably mostly be casual range use. I do have a tendency to forget to turn things off. Short battery life would be a problem. Good battery life in scopes, cameras and other things is important to me.

Yup, but also generally heavy and bulky. You're looking at 1 to 1&1/2 pounds with the mount included, versus 3-5 ounces for an Aimpoint Micro (depending on the mount used). Choice depends what's more important to you.

I’m thinking magnification would be more important, but I guess I’ll probably never know till I actually get to use one or the other. Weight is also something I should take into consideration. 1 to 1 ½ pounds of added weight to the riffle would probably be enough for me to want to shoot mostly with irons, but I do plan on switching from scope to irons a lot. I’ve learned a lot in my research and know so much more about red dots and scopes than I did a couple of weeks ago, but there is only so much I can get from research. Unfortunately, it’s an overnight trip just to be able to look at this stuff, but I’d like to have a list of certain scopes to look at and armed with enough info to look for the right things and ask the right questions when I do get to handle some, so I’ll probably continue to ask questions.

Striker

03-21-12, 13:40

Use will probably mostly be casual range use. I do have a tendency to forget to turn things off. Short battery life would be a problem. Good battery life in scopes, cameras and other things is important to me.

Also, if you haven't done it yet, may I suggest, that you go to your local store that carries Aimpoint and Eotech and look through them to see what the reticle looks like to you. You might find that your astigmatism doesn't really affect you that much. If you're like me, the comma of the Aimpoint and the dot and ring of fire of an Eotech, while not ideal, is still fine. It affects different people different ways, so all I'm really suggesting is that you see for yourself.

wingspar

03-21-12, 14:06

Also, if you haven't done it yet, may I suggest, that you go to your local store that carries Aimpoint and Eotech and look through them to see what the reticle looks like to you. You might find that your astigmatism doesn't really affect you that much. If you're like me, the comma of the Aimpoint and the dot and ring of fire of an Eotech, while not ideal, is still fine. It affects different people different ways, so all I'm really suggesting is that you see for yourself.

That’s pretty much what I said I would be doing in my last post. Nothing local around here at all. Anyplace that carries Aimpoint, Trijicon, Burris and so on is going to be a planned over night trip. No way around that for me. The benefits of living remotely outweigh the benefits of living in a metropolitan area where all this stuff is readily available. In just a few minutes, I can be at my range which no one else uses, and shoot all day long and never see another human. From the range, a short hike down into a canyon to a creek is a pleasant way to wind down. Trade it for the ability to make a quick drive to the nearest Cabelas? Nope. So I need to do a ton of research so I’m well armed with all the info I need to know what to look for and what questions to ask when I do make that trip.

bp7178

03-21-12, 15:26

Even better would be to shoot a rifle with one mounted.

I find that while my 2moa T-1's dot isn't perfect when I wear my contacts, it doesn't effect my shooting.

My dot looks much better when I wear my glasses, and the targets show no difference.

bsmith_shoot

03-21-12, 19:13

Hey wingspar, if you will look back a couple pages in this thread, you will see I went through pretty much the same thing as you are right now. I came from a background of using variable power optics for hunting and target, and had a hard time transitioning to the RDS. With some time behind the optic, and some instruction, I learned to love them greatly. I ran Eotech 552, and Aimpoint M2 for a long time.
I got to a point that I needed to upgrade my optics, and the availability of quality 1-4x optics was just too much for me to resist. I had grown up with a variable, and it was super easy for me to transition back.
Fast forward to the last 6 months, and I had a need for a RDS on my daily carried SBR. I done my research, having been away from a dot for a good while, and chose the T1 2moa.
Once it was mounted, I was badly disappointed. The dot looked like a splatter. I couldn't zero it or nothing. Thanks to this very thread, and the knowledgeable folks here, I found that my eyes had developed a slight astigmatism, and my sight had gotten lacking. I was instructed here to try different things, and wow, with my optic farther away, and my BUIS in the up position, I could see a decent dot.
My biggest recommendation to you, is to try out optics, then find methods that help you see the reticle/dot as good as possible. If you need any help, don't hesitate.
Good luck and God bless,
Brandon

wingspar

03-21-12, 19:50

Hey wingspar, if you will look back a couple pages in this thread, you will see I went through pretty much the same thing as you are right now.

I did read your posts when I went thru all the posts in this thread. I’m pretty sure I want a 1-4 scope over a RDS, but as you know, one can only do so much research on the internet. I’ll look at both when I get the opportunity. I do have a slight astigmatism, and until I read thru this entire thread, I never would have associated it with any problems I might have had looking at scopes. My far vision is pretty good. Just got an eye exam this month, and my far vision has improved so much, I can drive just fine without glasses, but my reading vision has decreased. Just how this is going to affect my use of scopes if at all, I don’t know. I never have worn glasses when shooting, and won’t be any time soon. (Eye protection, absolutely). One good thing about the 1-4 scopes is that they have an adjustable diopter which allows one to adjust the reticle till it is clear. RDS’s don’t have that. But, as it sounds like you have discovered, the distance from your eye to the RDS helps take the “grapes” out of the dot.

bsmith_shoot

03-21-12, 20:01

I did read your posts when I went thru all the posts in this thread. I’m pretty sure I want a 1-4 scope over a RDS, but as you know, one can only do so much research on the internet. I’ll look at both when I get the opportunity. I do have a slight astigmatism, and until I read thru this entire thread, I never would have associated it with any problems I might have had looking at scopes. My far vision is pretty good. Just got an eye exam this month, and my far vision has improved so much, I can drive just fine without glasses, but my reading vision has decreased. Just how this is going to affect my use of scopes if at all, I don’t know. I never have worn glasses when shooting, and won’t be any time soon. (Eye protection, absolutely). One good thing about the 1-4 scopes is that they have an adjustable diopter which allows one to adjust the reticle till it is clear. RDS’s don’t have that. But, as it sounds like you have discovered, the distance from your eye to the RDS helps take the “grapes” out of the dot.
It did help, along with the rear sight. I would be willing to send you a T1 2moa on a LaRue 1/3rd mount to try out for reference. I just ask you put insurance on it when you return it. If it will help, let me know.
Brandon

wingspar

03-22-12, 00:39

It did help, along with the rear sight. I would be willing to send you a T1 2moa on a LaRue 1/3rd mount to try out for reference. I just ask you put insurance on it when you return it. If it will help, let me know.
Brandon

That’s an awesome offer. I’ll send you a PM.

DocMolar

03-26-12, 09:28

bp7178

03-26-12, 11:38

Toric contact lenses are nothing new for correcting astigmatism. They have their drawbacks. If the contact rotates on your eye, it will change the alignment a bit. If you blinks a few times it goes back. They also cost more than spherical lenses.

jarrod

03-26-12, 12:04

Another thing to remember is to stay hydrated. I have to remind myself to drink water while at the range or in a training class. Dehydration can be an issue with contacts and it will also lead to slightly blurred vision. Another side effect of dehydration is increased heart rate (not good for the longer shots).

wingspar

03-26-12, 15:48

Wondering if any of you have any experience with "Acuvue Oasys for astigmatism" contacts. I made an appointment for Friday with my opthamologist to get measured. She's letting me come in with my aimpoint micro but I'm going to need to take it off the upper and estimate the distance from my eye to the dot. She's scared of guns.

Before you take the optic off the upper, cut a piece of string to the length of your eye relief, then you can duplicate at the Opthamologist’s office.

DocMolar

04-02-12, 09:19

Thanks guys for all your input. wingspar really appreciate the string suggestion, that worked out really well. I got measured and I will be picking up my contacts on Friday. Will give you guys feedback once I get to try them out. Thanks again to all jarrod, bp7178 and wingspar for the great replies. Will keep your suggestions in mind.

wingspar

04-02-12, 14:51

Cool. Glad I could help. :)

Canonshooter

04-15-12, 17:13

Most 1X red dots do not have an adjustable diopter, other than the notable exception below. You should further note, however, that this model is substantially heavier and bulkier than some of the most popular non-adjustable red dots like the Aimpoint Micro. So it's a trade-off for image quality vs weight/bulk.

Weights (with mounts);

Aimpoint PRO - 11.6 ounces
EOTech EXPS3 - 11.2 ounces
Prismatic - 12 ounces

An Aimpoint H/T1 in a mount is just over 6 ounces.

The view through the Leupold Prismatic is dramatically brighter and sharper vs. a RDS. The adjustable eyepiece makes the etched reticle razor sharp. If you can live with the limited eyebox compared to a RDS, it's a viable alternative.

Canonshooter

04-15-12, 17:49

BTW, looking through the small rear sight aperture really helps with a RDS.

I am still deciding which optic package to go with on my lightweight 14.5" mid-length. An Aimpoint H1 in a LaRue lower 1/3 co-witness mount weighs 6.2 ounces, which will keep my rifle under 7 pounds. With a 50 year zero for both the irons and RDS, I can look over the irons through the H1 for the close/fast shots and then look through the irons for an absolute co-witness with the H1 and get a sharp, round dot sitting on top of the front post for the longer shots where greater precision is needed.

For shots out to about 250 yards, I think this is a good set up. Beyond that magnification will be a definite advantage.