View Full Version : My rifle is "all wrong".
bsmith_shoot
01-30-12, 17:49
Recently I was approached by a gentleman about my SBR. He started off the conversation with, "I dont want to make you mad, or hurt your feelings, I just dont want you to get hurt." He said that my rifle was "all wrong" for a defensive weapon.
First of all, he said that my choice of optic was terrible. No good defensive gun should have a variable power scope on it. He said the 1-4's should be reserved for competition and hunting rifles.
Secondly, my barrel was way to short to be using a variable power scope. "It defeats the purpose of both". My rifle is far too un-accurate for a 1-4 to make a differance on.
Finally, he said if I absolutely had to keep the 1-4, that it was detrimental that I cut off the FSB, and put on a FF rail. The FSB will only "get you killed", if you ever have to have it in a fight.
As he was leaving, his parting words were something like " you would have a pretty good little gun, if you do what I told you."
I said "thank you much", and smiled. :D
True story.
She aint no beauty queen, but she aint no safe queen either.
http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu224/bsmith_shoot/ar001.jpg
http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu224/bsmith_shoot/ar002.jpg
My 2-year old likes it. :D
http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu224/bsmith_shoot/cameraphone012.jpg
Thanks for listening to my story, and if you guys need any advice about your rifles, ill give you this guys phone number!!
Brandon
Yeah I always love it when someone thinks of themselves as an "expert" and then begins to share their epic knowledge with you. What an idiot your rifle looks good to me.
That would of pissed me off. I wouldn't have been so polite.
I had some guy tell me My Noveske was a Russian copy
And I should pick up an RRA. "They're the best"
Pretty sure he never heard of Noveske before I said it.
Beat Trash
01-30-12, 18:12
Does having a FSB interfere with use of your optic?
Does your optic fulfill your needs?
Is your gun and load accurate enough to put rounds on target, within the engagement distances you are likely to encounter?
If the answer to all of the above is yes, then forget that guy and his opinion.
bsmith_shoot
01-30-12, 18:20
Most deffinately my friend. Im not, in any way, posting this to "defend" my rifle, or to have others "critique" my build, im just throwin the story out there for a few laughs. My weapon fits me perfectly, and is very reliable. It shoots far more accurately than I am capable of, at any range.
The funniest part of the story is this, I know what rifle he uses. ;)
Does having a FSB interfere with use of your optic?
Does your optic fulfill your needs?
Is your gun and load accurate enough to put rounds on target, within the engagement distances you are likely to encounter?
If the answer to all of the above is yes, then forget that guy and his opinion.
"First thing you should do is file that front sight off. It'll just get in the way."
Beat Trash
01-30-12, 18:36
Mark Twain supposedly stated, "Better to keep your mouth shut and have the world think you're an idiot, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
Firearms seem to bring out a lot of idiots with rather strong opinions.
I recently had someone tell me all the reasons why my choice of handgun and caliber was all wrong for self defense. We were at a gun club about 40 miles from the nearest metropolitan area. He proceeded to inform me what the Police Department in this metropolitan city uses, bla bla bla. During the conversation he asked what I do for a living. I told him. I've been a LEO for the last 19 years, a Relief Sergeant for the last 10 years. I work for... the Department in question.
God save us all from idiots and ass holes!
, I know what rifle he uses. ;)What does he use?
Mark Twain supposedly stated, "Better to keep your mouth shut and have the world think you're an idiot, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
Firearms seem to bring out a lot of idiots with rather strong opinions.
I recently had someone tell me all the reasons why my choice of handgun and caliber was all wrong for self defense. We were at a gun club about 40 miles from the nearest metropolitan area. He proceeded to inform me what the Police Department in this metropolitan city uses, bla bla bla. During the conversation he asked what I do for a living. I told him. I've been a LEO for the last 19 years, a Relief Sergeant for the last 10 years. I work for... the Department in question.
God save us all from idiots and ass holes!What were you shooting and what does you dept. carry?
SeriousStudent
01-30-12, 18:56
Mark Twain supposedly stated, "Better to keep your mouth shut and have the world think you're an idiot, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
Firearms seem to bring out a lot of idiots with rather strong opinions.
I recently had someone tell me all the reasons why my choice of handgun and caliber was all wrong for self defense. We were at a gun club about 40 miles from the nearest metropolitan area. He proceeded to inform me what the Police Department in this metropolitan city uses, bla bla bla. During the conversation he asked what I do for a living. I told him. I've been a LEO for the last 19 years, a Relief Sergeant for the last 10 years. I work for... the Department in question.
God save us all from idiots and ass holes!
Did you start humming the "Real Men of Genius" theme? :D
Yeah I always love it when someone thinks of themselves as an "expert" and then begins to share their epic knowledge with you.
Yeah..
Mark Twain supposedly stated, "Better to keep your mouth shut and have the world think you're an idiot, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt" is actually Lincoln
I dont want to be that guy... my grandmother has said that to me since I was a child:(
This was all unsolicited? He just walked up and started telling you this?
at least he didn't call it "gay" or "homo", people that use those expressions all the time... well just don't turn your back on them, that's all I'm sayin'...
:lol:
bsmith_shoot
01-30-12, 20:05
Pretty much so. He is a very seasoned, and respected, hunter in my area. He is around 60 years old, and a great bench shooter.
His rifle of choice is a mini-14.
I didnt take it personal at all Rob. He has no working knowledge of combat rifles, that im aware of. I truly thought it funny.
This was all unsolicited? He just walked up and started telling you this?
at least he didn't call it "gay" or "homo", people that use those expressions all the time... well just don't turn your back on them, that's all I'm sayin'...
:lol:
Thomas M-4
01-30-12, 20:19
It sounds like his main issue was with your choice of optics.
LOL I will play a little bit of the devils advocate[ I am bored] what do you think that your choice of a magnified optic will be a benefit for you during a home invasion?? Common wisdom is that RDS can easily used to 300 meters. [ Yes I know that many people can go father than 300 meters]
Recently I was approached by a gentleman about my SBR. He started off the conversation with, "I dont want to make you mad, or hurt your feelings, I just dont want you to get hurt." He said that my rifle was "all wrong" for a defensive weapon.
First of all, he said that my choice of optic was terrible. No good defensive gun should have a variable power scope on it. He said the 1-4's should be reserved for competition and hunting rifles.
Secondly, my barrel was way to short to be using a variable power scope. "It defeats the purpose of both". My rifle is far too un-accurate for a 1-4 to make a differance on.
Finally, he said if I absolutely had to keep the 1-4, that it was detrimental that I cut off the FSB, and put on a FF rail. The FSB will only "get you killed", if you ever have to have it in a fight.
As he was leaving, his parting words were something like " you would have a pretty good little gun, if you do what I told you."
I said "thank you much", and smiled. :D
True story.
She aint no beauty queen, but she aint no safe queen either.
[IM]http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu224/bsmith_shoot/ar001.jpg[/IMG]
[IG]http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu224/bsmith_shoot/ar002.jpg[/IMG]
My 2-year old likes it. :D
[MG]http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu224/bsmith_shoot/cameraphone012.jpg[/IMG]
Thanks for listening to my story, and if you guys need any advice about your rifles, ill give you this guys phone number!!
Brandon
Psychology 101, when someone prefaces something with "I don't want to..."
That is EXACTLY what they want to do.
I don't want to call the guy ignorant, but I am not sure he has a clue. Your setup looks g2g to me. Very nice!
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt" is actually Lincoln
I dont want to be that guy... my grandmother has said that to me since I was a child:(
Lincoln was quoting scripture.
"Proverbs 17:28. Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue. (NIV)
He was probably one of those Internet SEAL's
Although I prefer my lights on the left, clearly your rifle is wrong.
That would have really, really pissed me off.
He may have a point when it comes to your choice of optic for your barrel length as a defensive weapon, but obviously not as huge an issue. If it works for you, enjoy it.
Just out of curiosity, what barrel are you running, and what twist is it?
Haha I love self proclaimed gun "experts" I would not have been as polite.
That would of pissed me off. I wouldn't have been so polite.
I had some guy tell me My Noveske was a Russian copy
And I should pick up an RRA. "They're the best"
Pretty sure he never heard of Noveske before I said it.
Thats is funny, I have heard the same thing said about Noveske. I guess we cant all own such an esteemed brand like rra.
bsmith_shoot
01-30-12, 21:43
As a purely home defense weapon, it wouldnt be the greatest choice. It is still very much effective, but a RDS would probably edge it out.
But, its not a dedicated HD weapon. Its my primary defensive weapon. It stays in my car, in a tennis racket case, with me, and it goes in the office with me. When I leave work, it goes back in the car, then back home. Ive killed more than a few wild(feral)dogs, and coyote with it. It does double duty as my HD, and daily defensive rifle. Just as a note, I carry a J-frame daily also. Its only purpose is to fight my way to my carbine though.
It sounds like his main issue was with your choice of optics.
LOL I will play a little bit of the devils advocate[ I am bored] what do you think that your choice of a magnified optic will be a benefit for you during a home invasion?? Common wisdom is that RDS can easily used to 300 meters. [ Yes I know that many people can go father than 300 meters]
jahwarrior1423
01-30-12, 21:46
Did you call your mom and tell her the story?...who cares what other people think and just shoot your rifle.
bsmith_shoot
01-30-12, 21:48
Its a complete BCM 11.5" upper. Its 1/7 twist. Im at around 4500 rnds, with only 2 malfs, one stuck case(tula ammo), and one short stroke(underpowered hand load).
I run an H2 buffer with standard spring.
That would have really, really pissed me off.
He may have a point when it comes to your choice of optic for your barrel length as a defensive weapon, but obviously not as huge an issue. If it works for you, enjoy it.
Just out of curiosity, what barrel are you running, and what twist is it?
Did you call your mom and tell her the story?
LOL. I got a good laugh out of that.
But seriously, OP, there's nothing wrong with that rifle. It's not my style (I'm allergic to those MOE handguards), but IMO it is otherwise properly configured.
1-4X's are right at home on SBR's. The greatest advantage of an SBR is not its lighter weight but rather the shorter length. The slightly heavier and longer 1-4 (when compared to a RDS), adds weight, but allows you to push the range envelope to the edge of the round's external performance. Perhaps the guy giving you shit is not aware of what SBR's can really do in the right hands. Show him.
Thomas M-4
01-30-12, 21:58
As a purely home defense weapon, it wouldnt be the greatest choice. It is still very much effective, but a RDS would probably edge it out.
But, its not a dedicated HD weapon. Its my primary defensive weapon. It stays in my car, in a tennis racket case, with me, and it goes in the office with me. When I leave work, it goes back in the car, then back home. Ive killed more than a few wild(feral)dogs, and coyote with it. It does double duty as my HD, and daily defensive rifle. Just as a note, I carry a J-frame daily also. Its only purpose is to fight my way to my carbine though.
Very good response did this come up in your conversation with him?
I have used a trijicon TR24 in a configuration very similar to yours. I found that it worked quite well. I will say that a true 1x power is still quite new to old codgers:lol: I might want to give him a little space [unless he has a 50mm Objective scope on his mini14 which :lol:I cam across not to long ago].
He thought my aimpoint was an ACOG :suicide2: because I could regularly bang the 12" steel plate at the 100 yrd range. Funny I know...
It sounds like his ego has taken over.
You say he is a seasoned and WELL respected hunter/shooter...
I know tons of guys like that, humility is not part of their vocabulary
bsmith_shoot
01-30-12, 22:27
I did too!! LOL. Funny thing is, I did call my dad. :D We had a good laugh out of it.
For the record, I think its hillarious, and kind of sad. This guy is a Vietnam vet, a very good shooter, and a CCDW instructor. He is a top-notch rimfire, benchrest, and skeet shooter, and has taken about every trophy animal you can think of. He is just clueless when it comes to the combat rifle.
I took it with a grain of salt.
LOL. I got a good laugh out of that.
But seriously, OP, there's nothing wrong with that rifle. It's not my style (I'm allergic to those MOE handguards), but IMO it is otherwise properly configured.
1-4X's are right at home on SBR's. The greatest advantage of an SBR is not its lighter weight but rather the shorter length. The slightly heavier and longer 1-4 (when compared to a RDS), adds weight, but allows you to push the range envelope to the edge of the round's external performance. Perhaps the guy giving you shit is not aware of what SBR's can really do in the right hands. Show him.
Thomas M-4
01-30-12, 22:49
I did too!! LOL. Funny thing is, I did call my dad. :D We had a good laugh out of it.
For the record, I think its hillarious, and kind of sad. This guy is a Vietnam vet, a very good shooter, and a CCDW instructor. He is a top-notch rimfire, benchrest, and skeet shooter, and has taken about every trophy animal you can think of. He is just clueless when it comes to the combat rifle.
I took it with a grain of salt.
Did he even try to shoot your rifle??
I had a fairly good and seasoned iron sighted high power shooter in 2010 shoot my rifle he was very impressed and thanked me for the experience.
The old codger was very good with Iron sights he could put down some impressive groups with Iron sight in milsurps I recall he was good with a a under folder AK that had trigger slap from hell and had at least a 12 MOA vertical movement in the under folder stock. I was second best out of the group but just barely from third witch would have been the AK's owner
This old guy may be well respected, but he don't know jack s---t about a fighting rifle, as yours is what those of us that actually take classes and train with a purpose would refer to as very well set up. He looks at your 'perfect' set up, and attempts to correct it's errors drawing from a knowledge base he doesn't even have!
I've got a lot of folks like that at my local LE range. They pride themselves on the tiny groups they shoot from a bench, but would be lost on just a basic 1-5 drill.
As to the 1-4.... I have kept up with many a dot sight at 0 to 25, and once past 50... well... you know what happens.
Its a complete BCM 11.5" upper. Its 1/7 twist. Im at around 4500 rnds, with only 2 malfs, one stuck case(tula ammo), and one short stroke(underpowered hand load).
I run an H2 buffer with standard spring.
Well, as far as accuracy goes, a BCM is going to do just fine, even at 11.5.
It won't work as well at quick target acquisition at extremely close range compared to say, an aimpoint, but of course there are plenty of other reasons to shoot than that.
Is this your primary home defense choice?
I don't see any problem with your choice of optics. I have a variable power Trijicon Accupoint scope on my 300BLK 10.5" SBR and I would not have it any other way.
Get good enough running that optic at low power that you can utterly beclown people like this - run something like a VTAC half and half drill and he just might start to get the picture.
Mark Twain supposedly stated, "Better to keep your mouth shut and have the world think you're an idiot, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
Actually, he was quoting the Bible:
Proverbs 17:28 - Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.
But yeah, guys like Bsmith encountered are far too prevelant in the firearms industry. It goes the other way too. No point in telling someone with a High Point, "hey Buddy, that POS is gonna get you killed." If they ask, fine. Otherwise, keep your trap shut.
Recently I was approached by a gentleman about my SBR. He started off the conversation with, "I dont want to make you mad, or hurt your feelings, I just dont want you to get hurt." He said that my rifle was "all wrong" for a defensive weapon.
First of all, he said that my choice of optic was terrible. No good defensive gun should have a variable power scope on it. He said the 1-4's should be reserved for competition and hunting rifles.
Secondly, my barrel was way to short to be using a variable power scope. "It defeats the purpose of both". My rifle is far too un-accurate for a 1-4 to make a differance on.
Finally, he said if I absolutely had to keep the 1-4, that it was detrimental that I cut off the FSB, and put on a FF rail. The FSB will only "get you killed", if you ever have to have it in a fight.
As he was leaving, his parting words were something like " you would have a pretty good little gun, if you do what I told you."
I said "thank you much", and smiled. :D
True story.
Thanks for listening to my story, and if you guys need any advice about your rifles, ill give you this guys phone number!!
Brandon
Sounds like sage advice from the retired space shuttle door gunner.
QuietShootr
01-31-12, 08:52
Recently I was approached by a gentleman about my SBR. He started off the conversation with, "I dont want to make you mad, or hurt your feelings, I just dont want you to get hurt." He said that my rifle was "all wrong" for a defensive weapon.
First of all, he said that my choice of optic was terrible. No good defensive gun should have a variable power scope on it. He said the 1-4's should be reserved for competition and hunting rifles.
Secondly, my barrel was way to short to be using a variable power scope. "It defeats the purpose of both". My rifle is far too un-accurate for a 1-4 to make a differance on.
Finally, he said if I absolutely had to keep the 1-4, that it was detrimental that I cut off the FSB, and put on a FF rail. The FSB will only "get you killed", if you ever have to have it in a fight.
As he was leaving, his parting words were something like " you would have a pretty good little gun, if you do what I told you."
I said "thank you much", and smiled. :D
True story.
She aint no beauty queen, but she aint no safe queen either.
http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu224/bsmith_shoot/ar001.jpg
http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu224/bsmith_shoot/ar002.jpg
My 2-year old likes it. :D
http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu224/bsmith_shoot/cameraphone012.jpg
Thanks for listening to my story, and if you guys need any advice about your rifles, ill give you this guys phone number!!
Brandon
"Hey, thanks a lot. You remember when I talked to you about it before I built it? No? Well, I guess it's none of your ****in' business, then, huh?"
Kruggy5.56
01-31-12, 15:37
Nowadays everyone is a professional!!!!! Seems like no matter we u shoot theres aleast 2 or 3 pros running off at the mouth.
Btw, thats a nice lookin weapon!!!
I had some Jack Wagon tell me one day that my 229 in .357sig was a was a obsolete gun and caliber. That no Leo's would carry one and I need a XD-M in .45. I smiled and ran the target out to 25 put 2 mags in the head and then asked him to do the same with his XD, he could hardly hit the head at the 7. I did a few drills and on the way out made sure he saw my Badge on my belt and informed him he needed to keep the comments to himself and do some reasearch before he made a Fool out of himself.:cool:
Suwannee Tim
01-31-12, 18:15
My favorite response to someone like this is to say in my best Southern drawl "sorry but I don't speak English." There is one on every range. Our local expert will lecture you on the importance of ammunition having the "correct fuel to air ratio". Same guy who hunts all over the world but is so fat he can't walk 200 yards out and back unless he absolutely has too. He does all this on a Social Security Disability pension. He was telling me how he shot another member's 470 double rifle both barrels at the same time. That way you get a two shot group with the bullet centers 5/8 inch apart no matter what the range. I have shot Emory's 470 and there are three problems with this: No one in his right mind would shoot both barrels of a 470 at the same time, you can't anyway, the gun only has one trigger and Don ain't man enough to shoot a 470. Maybe it's the same guy. Drives a hoopty old pickup, weighs about 350 and has man-boobs? Is that the guy?
I see guns on every week that would make a dog laugh. I always say "yeah man, great gun, great gun." No, I don't think your gun would make a dog laugh. A parakeet maybe. Just kidding. Your guns is fine. I am sure you are enormously gratified that Suwannee likes your gun. You're welcome.
Suwannee Tim
01-31-12, 18:22
.....do some reasearch before he made a Fool out of himself.:cool:
Why do you want to discourage the man from making a fool of himself? It may be his calling in life.
....Btw, thats a nice lookin weapon!!!
Nice looking kid too. What's his name? The gun not the kid. Just kidding!
NitroDave08
01-31-12, 18:40
Good on you for not getting into a debate. Does it fit you needs?, are you happy with it?
That's all that matters.
I look at guns like when i was into building custom cars. To me it may look like overkill(100 monitors), ugly-azz paint, etc but if the guy is happy with it, then so be it. I am in the process of finishing off my build up of a "plain ole" 6920. Im a K.I.S.S guy, when I see some of the decked out weapons, I ask "what was the reasoning behind you choices". I have even learned a few things that I didn't when in the military and some of the new stuff out there. Heck in "my day" the collapsing stock was the new cool thing.
Suwannee Tim
01-31-12, 18:56
Our "that guy", Don was telling us how he had every caliber ever made. He had gotten rid of them and was now down to three rifles.
Me "Have you ever had a 9 X 71 mm Peterlongo?" Of course he had. "A 356 Winchester?" Yes. "A 25-21 Stevens?" Yes. "How about an 11.7 X 82 mm Shostakovitch?" "Of course." I went on to describe the 11.7 X 82 mm Shostakovitch, a cartridge developed by the Soviets for use against dangerous game in their African colonies. He added details. I complained that bullets were hard to get. Not with his connections they weren't. I stated that I thought the recoil was a bit harsh, you know, with that 725 gram bullet at 2400 meters per second. "Not at all, not at all. Just a matter of experience, practice and grit." With emphasis on the latter. One of the spectators laughed so hard he peed his pants.
Our "that guy", Don was telling us how he had every caliber ever made. He had gotten rid of them and was now down to three rifles.
Me "Have you ever had a 9 X 71 mm Peterlongo?" Of course he had. "A 356 Winchester?" Yes. "A 25-21 Stevens?" Yes. "How about an 11.7 X 82 mm Shostakovitch?" "Of course." I went on to describe the 11.7 X 82 mm Shostakovitch, a cartridge developed by the Soviets for use against dangerous game in their African colonies. He added details. I complained that bullets were hard to get. Not with his connections they weren't. I stated that I thought the recoil was a bit harsh, you know, with that 725 gram bullet at 2400 meters per second. "Not at all, not at all. Just a matter of experience, practice and grit." With emphasis on the latter. One of the spectators laughed so hard he peed his pants.
My name is Don and I approve of this message. Thankfully, I don't live in Florida and don't weigh 350 lbs
Nightvisionary
01-31-12, 19:35
I see his point to a point. Yeah I know it is possible to make longer range hits with a scoped SBR but scopes on SBR just seem a little Snake Plisken'esh to me.
http://static.top-10-list.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/escape-from-new-york.jpg
A low powered variable on a carbine ok, I can get on board with that but on an SBR I just don't see the practical purpose because what you have done it taken a tool who best attribute is it's lightweight and compactness and made it bulkier and not so lightweight. Because of it's short barrel it's long range ballistics are degraded. So by adding a scope and mount you have degraded it's best qualities as a fast handling lightweight weapon in an attempt to improve it's mid to long range qualities which it never possessed to begin with.
Of course all of that is just my opinion and if I saw you shooting on the range I would keep my opinion to myself like that guy should have done.
Because of it's short barrel it's long range ballistics are degraded. So by adding a scope and mount you have degraded it's best qualities as a fast handling lightweight weapon in an attempt to improve it's mid to long range qualities which it never possessed to begin with.
Have you seen Trident's videos shooting his, iirc, 10.5" SBR at 600m or something?
Anyway, this is probably the only AR setup I'd criticize that's not intentionally trying to be stupid:
http://i.imgur.com/u0sKv.jpg
And here it is again, but with the redimag in use. Note a different character holding it this time... the first guy to use this weapon died fairly quickly when his shots badly missed their mark:
http://i.imgur.com/xaueH.jpg
kymudder08
01-31-12, 21:54
Just curious, what scope is that? And that guy sounds like an idiot. Bout like all the guys runnin dpms, bushmaster, and rra around here
bsmith_shoot
01-31-12, 22:06
Just curious, what scope is that? And that guy sounds like an idiot. Bout like all the guys runnin dpms, bushmaster, and rra around here
Its a Nikon mudder. Ive had that happen a lot, the old "you need to get you a rock river" bit. And when you ask why, its always "theyre the best made." I always tell em I will look into that. Lol, Ive always heard that ignorance is bliss.
bsmith_shoot
01-31-12, 22:18
I see his point to a point. Yeah I know it is possible to make longer range hits with a scoped SBR but scopes on SBR just seem a little Snake Plisken'esh to me.
A low powered variable on a carbine ok, I can get on board with that but on an SBR I just don't see the practical purpose because what you have done it taken a tool who best attribute is it's lightweight and compactness and made it bulkier and not so lightweight. Because of it's short barrel it's long range ballistics are degraded. So by adding a scope and mount you have degraded it's best qualities as a fast handling lightweight weapon in an attempt to improve it's mid to long range qualities which it never possessed to begin with.
Of course all of that is just my opinion and if I saw you shooting on the range I would keep my opinion to myself like that guy should have done.
I totally understand what your saying man. Im not arguing either. For me, with my life-long familiarity of this type of optic, having no use for batteries, the amount of training I have put in on the range, and the better clarity I can have in identifying my target at longer ranges, it just seemed like a no-brainer for me.
I will be the first to admit, I loved my eotechs, I almost resented getting rid of my aimpoints, but I just couldnt justify not going this route.
Truth is, I only hung on to RDS optics because it was the cool thing to to have, according to others. If so many people said they were better, then they had to be, right? It just wasnt that way for me.
As you said though, thats just my opinion too, lol.
Today I was told that there is no need for a 1-4x on my Afghan. The reasoning behind this statement was that, "The 5.56mm is only a beefed up .22, its pretty much useless after 250 yards."
......I feel your pain
Today I was told that there is no need for a 1-4x on my Afghan. The reasoning behind this statement was that, "The 5.56mm is only a beefed up .22, its pretty much useless after 250 yards."
......I feel your pain
Don't 5.56 FMJ (m855) rounds fail to fragment past about 100 yds on a 16" barrel and Mk262 past 175 yds? So then at 250 yds wouldn't a 5.56 FMJ/OTM round just put a 5.56mm (~.22") hole into someone?
I mean JSP and HP rounds would be different of course.
From my understanding, the 5.56 is totally ineffective past the range that I stated, says the gun store expert :)
Nightvisionary
01-31-12, 23:19
Have you seen Trident's videos shooting his, iirc, 10.5" SBR at 600m or something?
Anyway, this is probably the only AR setup I'd criticize that's not intentionally trying to be stupid:
http://i.imgur.com/u0sKv.jpg
And here it is again, but with the redimag in use. Note a different character holding it this time... the first guy to use this weapon died fairly quickly when his shots badly missed their mark:
http://i.imgur.com/xaueH.jpg
Yes I have and that was what I was thinking of in my post. Just because it's possible doesn't make it practical.
Nightvisionary
01-31-12, 23:24
I totally understand what your saying man. Im not arguing either. For me, with my life-long familiarity of this type of optic, having no use for batteries, the amount of training I have put in on the range, and the better clarity I can have in identifying my target at longer ranges, it just seemed like a no-brainer for me.
I will be the first to admit, I loved my eotechs, I almost resented getting rid of my aimpoints, but I just couldnt justify not going this route.
Truth is, I only hung on to RDS optics because it was the cool thing to to have, according to others. If so many people said they were better, then they had to be, right? It just wasnt that way for me.
As you said though, thats just my opinion too, lol.
Well if it works for you I won't argue with that.;)
"gay" and the such no. It is definitely a good looking rifle. I get stupid comments at the range all the time. I rarely run any optic just Troy iron sights and get the dumb comments about not running an eotech. At the range by me every red dot is an eotech. I actually had one of the guys who works there tell me I should replace my brand new (at the time) aimpoint t1 with an eotech 512.
That just wasnt happening.
So then at 250 yds wouldn't a 5.56 FMJ/OTM round just put a 5.56mm (~.22") hole into someone?Yup, just put a hole through them is all. They'll probably come thank you afterwards.
You know I honestly think a good hard open hand slap across the face is in order for a f&^$tard like that.
xbmxracerx
02-01-12, 06:46
The one guy even has both eyes closed (from what I can tell) looking through the irons.......
I see all kinds helping out at my local FFL.....You can only try to offer advise to some but not all are receptive to the input.
Like the guy that swore up and down that when I put this 3x9 scope on another customers gun, that the FSB was going to be in the way unless I put a riser on there. I told several times that this is not the case. After the install and having him look through the scope, he quietly left the store without incident......:nono:
"I can barely see the FSB on 3 power" Hmmmmmm........
Today I was told that there is no need for a 1-4x on my Afghan. The reasoning behind this statement was that, "The 5.56mm is only a beefed up .22, its pretty much useless after 250 yards."
Ha! I'm good-to-go with the 1-4x on my 5.56 AR because our club's rifle range only goes out to 200 yards!
:rolleyes:
Where do you guys encounter these people?
Today I was told that there is no need for a 1-4x on my Afghan. The reasoning behind this statement was that, "The 5.56mm is only a beefed up .22, its pretty much useless after 250 yards."
......I feel your pain
Wow :D I bought my own ACOG for Afghanistan.
Don't 5.56 FMJ (m855) rounds fail to fragment past about 100 yds on a 16" barrel and Mk262 past 175 yds? So then at 250 yds wouldn't a 5.56 FMJ/OTM round just put a 5.56mm (~.22") hole into someone?
I mean JSP and HP rounds would be different of course.Join us and come see what 5.56 will do for yourself.
Have you seen Trident's videos shooting his, iirc, 10.5" SBR at 600m or something?
Anyway, this is probably the only AR setup I'd criticize that's not intentionally trying to be stupid:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/u0sKv.jpg[IMG]
And here it is again, but with the redimag in use. Note a different character holding it this time... the first guy to use this weapon died fairly quickly when his shots badly missed their mark:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/xaueH.jpg[IMG]
What movie is this?
What movie is this?
It's the season 4 finale of Burn Notice, which was a tv movie prequel called The Fall of Sam Axe, played by Bruce Campbell.
What do you mean by "join us"?
I'm active duty .mil, but I've thankfully never had to fire my weapon against a human yet.
You might not get fragmentation past those ranges but you still get bullet yaw and the velocity causing temporary cavitation. Because of this I wouldnt say it just punches a .22 caliber hole.
I have seen several bad guys killed at extended rifle ranges with our M-16s and M-4s. My old squad leader went SF and when I asked him how his Mk18 was doing he told me that he has made kills out to 400 meters with it.
You might not get fragmentation past those ranges but you still get bullet yaw and the velocity causing temporary cavitation. Because of this I wouldnt say it just punches a .22 caliber hole.
I have seen several bad guys killed at extended rifle ranges with our M-16s and M-4s. My old squad leader went SF and when I asked him how his Mk18 was doing he told me that he has made kills out to 400 meters with it.
Agreed. If I am not mistaken, I recall a thread somewhere around here that stated some SF guys engaged an enemy at around 700 meters and killed the target using 77gr Black Hills. Correct me if I am wrong.
Edit: Here is the link.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=54977
Not to mention all the kills racked up by the SAW at range.
It's the season 4 finale of Burn Notice, which was a tv movie prequel called The Fall of Sam Axe, played by Bruce Campbell.
What do you mean by "join us"?
I'm active duty .mil, but I've thankfully never had to fire my weapon against a human yet.
What branch?
Suwannee Tim
02-01-12, 20:43
On the other hand:
http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr228/allentimfrank/IMG_2409.jpg
LMT 7.62 mm. The scope is a Leupold 8.5 - 25 X 50 mm, I pulled it off a 220 Swift prairie dog gun. That big ole scope really is inappropriate for this gun, a mismatch especially as I do most of my shooting offhand. Nevertheless, in the two years I have been shooting it I have not felt the burning urge to put something more appropriate on it like a 1-4 or 2.5-10. You would be surprised how many folks think it is a great setup. I have gotten many compliments. I can't remember one person disparaging the combination. :D
Suwannee Tim
02-01-12, 20:51
My name is Don and I approve of this message. Thankfully, I don't live in Florida and don't weigh 350 lbs
I don't think Don P., our Don, "that guy", lives in Florida. I think he lives in wolkenkuckucksheim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_cuckoo_land). Great word, that, a loan word. Wolkenkuckucksheim.:D
DeathMetal
02-03-12, 20:01
LOL. I got a good laugh out of that.
But seriously, OP, there's nothing wrong with that rifle. It's not my style (I'm allergic to those MOE handguards), but IMO it is otherwise properly configured.
1-4X's are right at home on SBR's. The greatest advantage of an SBR is not its lighter weight but rather the shorter length. The slightly heavier and longer 1-4 (when compared to a RDS), adds weight, but allows you to push the range envelope to the edge of the round's external performance. Perhaps the guy giving you shit is not aware of what SBR's can really do in the right hands. Show him.
I totaly agree. You have taken a light weight easy to maneuver rifle and given it a means to make precise hits out to 200 yards or more.
Absolutely nothing wrong with that equation, no matter what type of math you use. :D
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