View Full Version : Just gettin into the ar15 world
What's goin on everybody! So I'm just gettin interested in assualt rifles and the ar15 has really caught my eye. I would like to build one for myself so that I can learn and appreciate the rifle more. I'm not lookin for the top of the line stuff just a good starter rifle that shoots and I can have fun with at a tactical course. Any info would be great. Thanks for your help.
NoveskeFan
02-02-12, 13:47
How much money you looking to spend? By "build", are you looking for completely stripped lower & upper receivers to build up with a lower parts kit, barrel, etc?
My 2 cents: Don't buy anything less than a Palmetto State Armory or Spikes Tactical and even that is very questionable since you said you'd like to use it in a "tactical course" ...
My 3 cents: Save up the $900 to get a Colt 6920 or something comparable from ol' Grant.
Start by reading many of the stickies at the top of the General Discussion, Technical, Custom Build and New to Firearms/Shooting forums.
90% of the questions you probably have are answered there already.
General keyword searches will also yield a wealth of information. This place is a gold mine.
Look at the famous M4C "chart" for what you should be looking for in terms of quality and specs.
After that, figure out your budget and see what best fits the $ you're working with.
Also, check out the EE (Equipment Exchange) here for stuff. It's better to cobble together some slightly used, but quality components than try to polish a turd from a cheap manufacturer.
Good luck and welcome to BRD (black rifle disease)!
1859sharps
02-02-12, 14:10
I would like to build one for myself so that I can learn and appreciate the rifle more.
As already suggested, how much are you able to spend? are you looking to start with a stripped lower and build up from there?
I'm not looking for the top of the line stuff just a good starter rifle that shoots and I can have fun with at a tactical course. Any info would be great. Thanks for your help.
In my opinion there is no such thing as a "starter" AR. And AR is an AR is an AR in terms of how to operate the rifle. maybe a little over simplified but not by much.
There is however low quality/cheap verse good quality that costs just a little bit more. why buy the cheap/low quality (aka "starter rifle") then end up spending more money later to either try and make it work right and or decided you should have bought the good quality for just a little bit more?
For a completely assembled ready to go from the factory rifle with basic features minus optics
cheap will cost about 800 - 1200
good quality will cost about 1000-1500
Me, I would save until I could buy good quality
What's goin on everybody! So I'm just gettin interested in assualt rifles and the ar15 has really caught my eye. I would like to build one for myself so that I can learn and appreciate the rifle more. I'm not lookin for the top of the line stuff just a good starter rifle that shoots and I can have fun with at a tactical course. Any info would be great. Thanks for your help.
You do need "top of the line". On this site, "top of the line" means "proven to work". Many folks mistake "top of the line" for "unneeded expense" or "has fancy accessories and/or finishes".
A "top of the line" AR gives the shooter the best value for the money as it's built to a known specification that's proven to provide the best possible function and performance. For example, a forged 7075 receiver is better than a billet 6061 receiver and the forged receiver costs less. Choosing the top of the line 7075 receiver actually saves money.
The definition of a starter AR isn't one that's cheaper. A starter AR is a basic rifle with no accessories such as a vertical foregrip, or railed handguard. The basic carbne is best for the new shooter because you won't know what to get until you actually go out and shoot your carbine.
Folks get wrapped around the axle wanting to know what you plan to use your new carbine for. In the end, that really doesn't matter. Unless you have a narrow mission profile for your new rifle, such as long range precision, you can't go wrong choosing a basic carbine with a 16" barrel to start. This is a good starting configuration. Moe furniture, basic sights
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/PSA001.jpg
Here is what it looks like now. Sight & light were added after I'd shot it a bit. If I'd simply got what I thought I wanted for it, I would have wasted money on accessories that I wouldn't have liked or turned out to be much less useful than I imagined. (All my rifle needs now is a good sling)
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/CarbineSurefire003.jpg
Welcome! Request: Please don't call them "assault rifles". Opinions vary, but I for one feel that term conjures up visions of gun bans dancing through the heads of certain political activist groups when they're tucked into bed at night. Just call them what they are... ARs, AKs, etc.
When you're starting at the bottom floor, "building" an AR is rather anticlimactic. You may actually appreciate the rifle more if you just buy a good one and shoot it a whole lot. Trust this. Now read and have fun.
Cesiumsponge
02-02-12, 16:01
I suggest buying one before building one. Why? You'll always have a proven, working rifle at your disposal. You can build a second rifle from the ground-up later on, once you know what you like and dislike. A custom rifle can be overwhelming, given how saturated the AR component market is right now. You're bound to have a pile of stuff you end up not liking.
That helped a lot thanks to everyone that replied. So now I'm planning on buyin a fully assembled AR, can I get some good advice as where to begin? Type of AR, barrel lengh, etc. I know I'm askin a lot of "green" questions but I'm really interested and wanted some advice from experienced owners/shooters. Thanks again for your help.
I suggest buying one before building one. Why? You'll always have a proven, working rifle at your disposal. You can build a second rifle from the ground-up later on, once you know what you like and dislike. A custom rifle can be overwhelming, given how saturated the AR component market is right now. You're bound to have a pile of stuff you end up not liking.
I don't know if I completely agree with this advice. I built the lower on my first AR, and it was a great learning experience. I am not intimidated by the zillions of tiny springs, dedents and whatnot because I understand how they all go together. If I had bought a complete rifle to begin with, I would not have the same understanding.
There are TONS of instructional "how-to's" on the internet, and no special tools are required. The upper is a different story. I got a great deal on a complete BCM upper off of the EE on this site. Look for a deal, and you will be well served by any of the usually recommended brands.
I did not trust the rifle when new, but after the first 1,000 trouble-free rounds, I would stake my life on it's reliability.
What's goin on everybody! So I'm just gettin interested in assualt rifles and the ar15 has really caught my eye. I would like to build one for myself so that I can learn and appreciate the rifle more. I'm not lookin for the top of the line stuff just a good starter rifle that shoots and I can have fun with at a tactical course. Any info would be great. Thanks for your help.
Get a Colt. It is a good standard infantry rifle that you can learn on.
Don't go to a tactical shooting course to have fun. Go there to learn.
Read the stickies and knowledge based threads on this forum before you buy a rifle, and before you buy a shit ton of accessories - shoot your rifle some and ask if these accessories are going to help you shoot better or do they just look cool. If they just look cool, you can probably do without them.
DeltaSierra
02-02-12, 18:18
Get a Colt. It is a good standard infantry rifle that you can learn on.
Don't go to a tactical shooting course to have fun. Go there to learn.
Read the stickies and knowledge based threads on this forum before you buy a rifle, and before you buy a shit ton of accessories - shoot your rifle some and ask if these accessories are going to help you shoot better or do they just look cool. If they just look cool, you can probably do without them.
This is the best advice you could possibly get - listen to it....
That helped a lot thanks to everyone that replied. So now I'm planning on buyin a fully assembled AR, can I get some good advice as where to begin? Type of AR, barrel lengh, etc. I know I'm askin a lot of "green" questions but I'm really interested and wanted some advice from experienced owners/shooters. Thanks again for your help.
Here are two of my favs:http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=MID-750-LWC & http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=6720
C4
polymorpheous
02-02-12, 19:23
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/CarbineSurefire003.jpg
What is this light mount?
Cesiumsponge
02-02-12, 22:07
I don't know if I completely agree with this advice. I built the lower on my first AR, and it was a great learning experience. I am not intimidated by the zillions of tiny springs, dedents and whatnot because I understand how they all go together. If I had bought a complete rifle to begin with, I would not have the same understanding.
There are TONS of instructional "how-to's" on the internet, and no special tools are required. The upper is a different story. I got a great deal on a complete BCM upper off of the EE on this site. Look for a deal, and you will be well served by any of the usually recommended brands.
I did not trust the rifle when new, but after the first 1,000 trouble-free rounds, I would stake my life on it's reliability.
If he is going to do a tactical course for training, the last thing you want to do is fight a cobbled-together rifle and all sorts of possible failures. Can you build an AR from individual parts and have it function flawlessly? Hell yeah, absolutely, but there is a problem to this approach for a newbie. As someone green to the AR world, why take the risk? You're not going to get anything out of the class if you're dicking with the rifle every 12 rounds. You're also going to hold up the rest of the class.
We don't really know anything about this guy other than he doesn't need a top-of-the-line rifle, which probably means he is on a budget. He also says he is new to "assault rifles". Assuming a complete neophyte, running a thousand rounds abusively to prove a homebrew build is a sage idea, but that might not be money he has to burn for the sake of simply proving the rifle won't fall apart. You just added $300 to the cost of the rifle, vaporized, just to see if it works like it should. All you get out of that is a bunch of holes in paper at the range.
It would be better if he ran a thousand rounds through supervised training in a tactical course. You can build a shitton of bad habits to hit a 1000-round count aimlessly just to make sure your rifle won't blow up. With training, those thousand rounds are each fired with purpose.
A BCM or Colt will get you off to a good start. No on the mall ninja parts lean and mean.
What is this light mount?
I think it's this one, but MistWolf probably better confirm...
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=95251
There are, generally, two types of AR buyers: those with and end-goal of owning an AR, and those with an end-goal of being proficient with an AR. Sometimes the former turns into the latter, but out of the gate you are either one or the other. The former may benefit from assembling their dream gun from the parts they are certain they need. The latter will benefit from buying a factory gun, preferably a Colt IMO, and the requisite ammunition and magazines to take at least a basic intro carbine course. The former will gain knowledge in how to assemble an AR, to the level of detail dictated by the parts they buy (if you buy a complete upper and lower, that's not much) while the latter will gain knowledge in how to operate the firearm.
Most of the replies to threads like these are guys simply defending the path they themselves took. I won't. I was a "builder" that would have been much better off with a factory gun and a class.
Light mount is from Mossie Tactical and this
I think it's this one, but MistWolf probably better confirm...
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=95251
is where I learned about it
Stick's pictures are far better than mine and he generously posted a few in the other thread. Go check them out.
Here's a couple more of my mount & light
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/CarbineSurfire001.jpg
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/CarbineSurefire002.jpg
The_War_Wagon
02-03-12, 07:03
I suggest buying one before building one. Why? You'll always have a proven, working rifle at your disposal. You can build a second rifle from the ground-up later on, once you know what you like and dislike. A custom rifle can be overwhelming, given how saturated the AR component market is right now. You're bound to have a pile of stuff you end up not liking.
THIS.
As a former owner of lesser name rifles (pre-ban PWA & Oly; post-ban Doublestar), the two things I've taken away from M4C is, a quality rifle MATTERS, and, train, Train, TRAIN with it!
Get thee to a Colt retailer, and gettest thou a 6920. AE XM193 can be found for under $300/1,000 these days. Buy it, & shoot it. ALL of it. You're brand new to the platform - find out how the rifle handles out of the box. Figure out how your irons work. Figure out how to break it down afterward, clean it, see what all the pieces to it are and how they work together. Then you'll be in a better place to start evaluating gear wants & needs.
You WILL end up experimenting with gear, and there'll be some items you'll wonder why you EVER bought. Continue to buy quality, and you'll get some of your money back by listing what you don't want on the equipment exchange. It'll be easier to take a hundred dollar hit on a $500 Aimpoint you DON'T like, than it will be to pay $99 for a Crapska red dot, that NOBODY wants at ANY price.
You don't go to the Ford Dealer, buy a base Fusion, and then show up at Daytona and ask to race in the 500. You've got much to learn about what you need, and WHY. This is my 21st year of AR ownership - I'm STILL learning...
I wish I had found this site before I had built my first AR. Had I done so I would have ended up with a Colt that would only have cost me 200 more than the one I built and been in a different league. I learned from that and sold my first AR and am now building a second one using BCM and the like.
Cesiumsponge
02-03-12, 09:10
There are, generally, two types of AR buyers: those with and end-goal of owning an AR, and those with an end-goal of being proficient with an AR. Sometimes the former turns into the latter, but out of the gate you are either one or the other. The former may benefit from assembling their dream gun from the parts they are certain they need. The latter will benefit from buying a factory gun, preferably a Colt IMO, and the requisite ammunition and magazines to take at least a basic intro carbine course. The former will gain knowledge in how to assemble an AR, to the level of detail dictated by the parts they buy (if you buy a complete upper and lower, that's not much) while the latter will gain knowledge in how to operate the firearm.
Most of the replies to threads like these are guys simply defending the path they themselves took. I won't. I was a "builder" that would have been much better off with a factory gun and a class.
That was me. With my first AR, I replaced nearly every damn part except the barrel and receivers. When all was said and done, I had a tacticool tank and a box full of shit I tried and hated. I sold the entire bloody thing and it was a few years before my bruised ego healed and I got into the game again.
Don't make the same mistakes as us dude, you'll save several thousand bucks and lots of headache. Do the basics and develop your tastes before you run out there with a credit card and buy a box of parts.
There are, generally, two types of AR buyers: those with and end-goal of owning an AR, and those with an end-goal of being proficient with an AR. Sometimes the former turns into the latter, but out of the gate you are either one or the other. The former may benefit from assembling their dream gun from the parts they are certain they need. The latter will benefit from buying a factory gun, preferably a Colt IMO, and the requisite ammunition and magazines to take at least a basic intro carbine course. The former will gain knowledge in how to assemble an AR, to the level of detail dictated by the parts they buy (if you buy a complete upper and lower, that's not much) while the latter will gain knowledge in how to operate the firearm.
Most of the replies to threads like these are guys simply defending the path they themselves took. I won't. I was a "builder" that would have been much better off with a factory gun and a class.
So Rob, at what point in the progression of knowledge should the new AR owner/operator learn about the inner workings of their gun? I am someone who really appreciates knowing how a mechanical device works, and gaining that knowledge BEFORE it breaks, rather than afterwards.
Of course it is a very good course of action for the new shooter to just buy a complete 6920 or BCM, especially if they intend to take a carbine course right off the bat, I am just curious at what point you recommend that the new shooter gain additional knowlege related to the innner workings of their gun?
You are correct that I built (the lower) on my first, and I am glad I did so. I learned a lot, and enjoyed the process. I did buy some crap parts that needed replacing, but that was due to lack of research on this site. I have learned, and moved on.
So Rob, at what point in the progression of knowledge should the new AR owner/operator learn about the inner workings of their gun? I am someone who really appreciates knowing how a mechanical device works, and gaining that knowledge BEFORE it breaks, rather than afterwards.
Of course it is a very good course of action for the new shooter to just buy a complete 6920 or BCM, especially if they intend to take a carbine course right off the bat, I am just curious at what point you recommend that the new shooter gain additional knowlege related to the innner workings of their gun?
You are correct that I built (the lower) on my first, and I am glad I did so. I learned a lot, and enjoyed the process. I did buy some crap parts that needed replacing, but that was due to lack of research on this site. I have learned, and moved on.
I will share my perspective on this-
You should start learning about the inner working of your AR as soon as you get it. Learn how to field strip it and learn how to clear malfunctions and get the rifle up and running again. Keep learning and take it as far as you can, or as far as needed for your situation.
You will not learn everything about the inner workings overnight. There is much to learn and the the greater the depth of learning, the greater in depth your questions will be. It's like eating an elephant. You have to do it one bite at a time.
The time to build your first rifle is when it's right for you and only you can take responsibility for that decision
My opinion get a BCM or a Colt . There are no better! You don't need the railed handguard or fancy butt stock! you need reliability. The bottom feeder ARs may work good but the long term odds are in favor of a BCM or Colt running the longlest. One of my long time shooting buddies who has BCM and Colts took a Keltec CA model to a carbine class to see how it would hold up and he called me to say the Keltec worked flawless and the bottom feeder ARs all had problems.
I will share my perspective on this-
You should start learning about the inner working of your AR as soon as you get it. Learn how to field strip it and learn how to clear malfunctions and get the rifle up and running again. Keep learning and take it as far as you can, or as far as needed for your situation.
You will not learn everything about the inner workings overnight. There is much to learn and the the greater the depth of learning, the greater in depth your questions will be. It's like eating an elephant. You have to do it one bite at a time.
The time to build your first rifle is when it's right for you and only you can take responsibility for that decision
right.
I highly recommend you go through Grant (G&R Tactical) for your purchase. I am not alone in this recommendation on this forum, and you'll save yourself money and headaches. After months of searching, his prices are very tough to beat and the customer service is stellar.
If you've never bought a gun online, it is as easy as buying a shirt on ebay. And I love the look of the FFL when he asks how much I got the rifle for.
My vote goes to buying a Colt 6920. My next piece of advice is to read, read, READ this forum and ask relevant questions. There is a ton of experience here, and if people steer you wrong, the "veterans" will set it right.
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