First AR

[JRas]

I've been researching and trying to decide my first AR. I've been leaning towards an SBR something on the lines of a 10.3-10.5in barrel similar to a MK18.

I'm tempted to start out with a basic Colt "MK18" from SAW(local), shoot it and go from there. I like both the Mod 0 and 1 but can't decide on which I prefer. I'd like a rail most likely a DD RIS ll or LaRue 9(****clones).

On the other hand, due to the high cost of these 10.3in Colts, I could buy myself a DD MK18 or Noveske MK18 complete with the DD RIS ll rail already installed for cheaper. The Colt being a basic M4 configuration. I'm not sure if the Colt is worth it (in this case compared to a 6920)

Colt MK18 from SAW $1,800
DD MK18 $1,587
Noveske MK18 $1,655
LMT $1,400?

I called up a respected dealer for a price qoute on a Colt MK18 complete, he called me a few days later saying he could get it for a decent amount cheaper than SAW's price. The catch, I wanted him to email me the specefics but he didn't know them. Why would I say "yes" when I have no idea what lower comes with it? SAW also does a reliability package... from what I read Ken knows his stuff. While they don't say exactly what is preformed its supposed to enchance reliabability.

If I bought from the other dealer. I could have it shipped to SAW and have the reliability package completed. I was thinking it could save me money on the intial purchase, sales tax?, and get me the same Colt?

I overthink stuff.. Ideas?

Thank you for having the patience to read my thread/rant.

[jonconsiglio]

Do you have other rifles?

While all of the ones you've listed will work well, I'd go with the LMT. Mine has been very reliable and consistent whether suppressed or not and with a variety of ammo. I also have a lot of time on a Noveske 10.5" and a few hundred rounds on a Colt.

What I'd suggest doing, is buying something like a Colt 6920, or similar from BCM, for example, and start the process on that lower. That way, you'll have something sooner you can work with and order the 10.5" upper you'd like around the time your stamp comes back.

Just an opinion. Good luck.

EDIT - While I like Colt rifles, I would not spend the $500, or whatever it is, that SAW is asking for the 10.3" barrels.

[JRas]

Do you have other rifles?

While all of the ones you've listed will work well, I'd go with the LMT. Mine has been very reliable and consistent whether suppressed or not and with a variety of ammo. I also have a lot of time on a Noveske 10.5" and a few hundred rounds on a Colt.

What I'd suggest doing, is buying something like a Colt 6920, or similar from BCM, for example, and start the process on that lower. That way, you'll have something sooner you can work with and order the 10.5" upper you'd like around the time your stamp comes back.

Just an opinion. Good luck.

EDIT - While I like Colt rifles, I would not spend the $500, or whatever it is, that SAW is asking for the 10.3" barrels.

I only own a handgun, besides hunting rifles.

To be honest, I've thought about buying a 6920 but I'd just prefer to have an SBR. While it would be nice not having to wait for a stamp, it would leave me wanting a short-barrel upper and spending more money in the longrun. These uppers aren't cheap http://www.specializedarmament.com/products/Upper_Receiver_Group_MK18-954-283.html

I may of drank the Colt kool-aid :ph34r:

[Guns-up.50]

Well if it were me I would go with a colt 6920 or DD m4v1 with a 14.5 barrel. Its short enough but still has a decent barrel length. Im not saying dont get an sbr but I would get a longer barrel for my first gun. I have a DD middy(16") and a colt carbine(14.5") and I love them both. If you only get one I say go 14.5 then later if funds permit get your sbr. Hope this helps and good luck

[Col_Crocs]

Im with jonconsiglio, get a 16" carbine first. Since youre pretty much set on a colt, get the 6929 or 6720. Cant go wrong with either. I, however, will go so far as to say get used to the platform first... shoot it as is, read/search/post here, configure as you go and then get an SBR. The reason being that since this is going to be your first AR, your actual preferences may differ or even change from what you think it is now. The best way to go about that is to go the shortest, most flexible non-nfa config and that would be a 16" carbine or midlength.

[jonconsiglio]

I only own a handgun, besides hunting rifles.

To be honest, I've thought about buying a 6920 but I'd just prefer to have an SBR. While it would be nice not having to wait for a stamp, it would leave me wanting a short-barrel upper and spending more money in the longrun. These uppers aren't cheap http://www.specializedarmament.com/products/Upper_Receiver_Group_MK18-954-283.html

I may of drank the Colt kool-aid :ph34r:

Think of it this way though… The 6920 in it's stock configuration, is about $950. So, it's not like you're spending another $1,500. Also, you'll have a good 5 or 6 months to buy your short upper or even put it on layaway somewhere while you wait for your SBR paperwork to be processed. So, if you don't go with a longer rifle now, you'll be without an AR for half a year unless you go with a pistol lower… which I wouldn't do.

I'd recommend the LMT. The upper is under $500. You'd need to add the BCG, charging handle, sight(s) and rail if you so choose. You'll spend a good bit less up front by going with a more basic 6920 or similar rifle from BCM, etc., then have a good bit of time to buy your short upper. You could even sell the longer upper when it's time for the 10.5".

I own a couple SBR's and I won't tell you I don't like them for specific roles. But, if it came down to just one rifle, I'd take my 14.5" or 16".

I'm not trying to tell you what YOU should do, I'm just looking at what I'd do in that situation. Going with a complete rifle now will get the process started and get you moving into the AR world now.

If you buy the LMT or similar upper later, you can buy it in it's basic configuration, which will run you about $750 with a rear sight, then you can add a Daniel Defense RIS II, LaRue, KAC, Centurion or similar rail later along with a front folding sight if that's what you want.

This route will also get you started on a more basic rifle without the rails you might not like or even need, and give you time to figure out what works for you and what can be improved.

Again, just my 2 cents buddy. It'll save you money now and possibly save you in the long run as well.

[6933]

Couldn't go wrong with any of those you listed. Just remember, anything put out by SAW is top notch. You just have to decide if the xtra $ is worth it for what you will use the rifle for. For me, I have been eyeing one of Ken's MK18's and may just have to take the plunge.

6920's set the standard, but if you want an SBR, get one. Have you looked at the 6933's? Excellent weapons. Quite a few one the site are quite happy with theirs. I'll go a step further and say that the 6933 may be Colt's best product in the current line-up. I say this based on personal experience as well as the positive attitudes of them held by some of our members that have a clue.

[JRas]

If I buy an SBR from another dealer, they send to an FFL what fee's are involved / the process?

If I buy an SBR less than 14.5inches, and decide later on to get a 14.5 upper can I use the same lower within the law?

[jonconsiglio]

If I buy an SBR from another dealer, they send to an FFL what fee's are involved / the process?

If I buy an SBR less than 14.5inches, and decide later on to get a 14.5 upper can I use the same lower within the law?

If you buy a complete short barrel rifle from a dealer, you'll have to wait about 6 months to take possession. You'll need to go through a local class III dealer for the transfer. The fees will be the $200 tax and whatever the local transfer fees are.

From there, you can run as many uppers n that lower as you'd like from as short as possible to as long as they make. It'll nly be considered an SBR when a barrel with a total length of less than 16" is installed. You can change the upper as often as you'd like. If its a permanent change and you no longer have the barrel length listed on your form, it's not a bad idea to inform the ATF.

Now, if you buy a 14.5" with a pinned muzzle device or 16" rifle now, you can start the process on the lower you'll have in your possession. Once that paperwork comes back, you can then install the short upper. This way, you'll have a rifle from day one. The other route, you won't for however long the paperwork takes.

You can own a short upper as long as you don't install it on the lower or have another lower that does not have an upper installed in the same place. It's best to keep the short upper at a family member's home who does not have an AR (or has an SBR) or better yet, don't pick it up from the dealer until your paperwork comes back. There are a lot of opinions on this, so read carefully.

Go to the NFA section and read the sticky on SBR's by Scottryan. I'll link it in a bit for you.

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=9830

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=15253

[Iraqgunz]

I don't really recommend that you go with an SBR. In fact, I would say that your best option is a Colt 6920 or similar.

Get to know the AR15 platform, spend some time and money on ammunition, magazines and some training.

If you decide later that you want an SBR you simply find a good upper, pay the 200.00 to register your lower and you know have an SBR. But, in the meantime you will still have an AR to shoot and use.

Right now you are looking at approx. 5 months of wait time.

[bsmith_shoot]

IG is right. Go with the non-NFA rifle first, register the lower, and when you get the stamp, get a SBR upper. At that point, you will be halfway towards another top-notch weapon.


I don't really recommend that you go with an SBR. In fact, I would say that your best option is a Colt 6920 or similar.

Get to know the AR15 platform, spend some time and money on ammunition, magazines and some training.

If you decide later that you want an SBR you simply find a good upper, pay the 200.00 to register your lower and you know have an SBR. But, in the meantime you will still have an AR to shoot and use.

Right now you are looking at approx. 5 months of wait time.

[jonconsiglio]

That's exactly what I've been saying since my first post. I imagine most with experience will come along and say the same thing.

[Iraqgunz]

Your post was spot on.


That's exactly what I've been saying since my first post. I imagine most with experience will come along and say the same thing.

[jonconsiglio]

Your post was spot on.

As was yours.. ;)

JRas, It's easy to get caught up in what you want or think you need when getting into these rifles, especially when you see all of the stuff posted online.

I do know a lot of people go overboard when buying their rifles. Over on TOS there's a M4A1 thread and Mk18 thread. Some of the guys there are buying PEQ-15's and DBAL's ($1,200 to $2,000 depending on where you buy and how bad you want them) but don't own or even have access to night vision.

Some of the best shooters I know use minimal gear, or at least nothing more than they need. My first AR, and I had owned numerous other rifles, was a 16" Colt. I shot that rifle as it came for over 5 years before I started looking into other barrel lengths and set ups.

Keep an open mind and buy only what you need. The most important thing is you learn to use the rifle well. After that, you'll know what you want and need.

[Casull]

I'm learning a lot here.

I agree with the LMT idea.

[JRas]

I've been shooting my buddies Dad's Bushmaster in the time being, getting the basics down. I figure I could buy myself a few magazines, tons of ammo, and clean it after using it. Wait 6 months to get mine
:dance3:

I did the same for my handgun, just the wait time was me saving
:smile:

Funny story, we got into a debate about the Bushmaster being mil-spec.

[KCBRUIN]

Wouldn't it be significantly cheaper to buy the BCM parts and build a Mk18 that way?

Mk18 upper or close enough 10.5 vs 10.3 upper with the Rail you want for $915 in stock.
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-11-5-BFH-Carbine-Length-Upper-Receiver-Daniel-p/bcm-urg-11%20bfh%20risii%20de.htm

Buy a BCM complete lower from G&R, SBR it, and then order the BCM upper. Should be close to 400-500 cheaper for a quality firearm.

I'm fixing to order a 16" BCM with MOE furniture in a couple weeks when my Uncle Sam sends me that money he owes me. I fill out my NFA paper work when it arrives, and then buy an 11.5" BCM upper with 10" rail when my Stamp is approved. After that I'll buy a second complete BCM lower, and have the best of both worlds.

[JRas]

I've taken your advice, while a 10.3-10.5 SBR would be cool. A better all around rifle would be a 14.5 pinned / 16

I want to build one with a DD MK18 12" rail, what would be the best Colt to use for this build?

6920 16 cutdown?
6921 14,5 made to 16?

[JRas]

http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/921/img2012042500024.jpg
went for broke :cool:

still want a SOPMOD stock, and optics of course but I'll shoot irons for now

[SpankMonkey]

http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/921/img2012042500024.jpg
went for broke :cool:

still want a SOPMOD stock, and optics of course but I'll shoot irons for now

NICE! That will keep you happy for awhile. Get some training and optics as cash permits. Stock up on ammo and mags. You can always go for a SBR later. Enjoy your rifle.