View Full Version : The More I Work On Computers, The More I Like Guns...
Did I mention I hate computers?
So the power gets interrupted tonight. I have a battery back up so I power down my computer and wait for it to be restored. Power comes on a few minutes later so I try and reboot my computer.
Boot disc error. WTF is that? So I cold stop and restart.
Drive read error, boot disc error, boot from start disc and a bunch of other crap that makes zero sense to me. What do I understand? My computer has become disabled simply by being turned off for 15 minutes.
By contrast I have a Colt 1911 that is going on 100 years and it still works. And if something goes wrong, it will be a simple matter to determine what needs fixing, except nothing has broken on it yet and it's older than my grandfather.
Eventually I realize that one of the stupid display lights on one of the DVD drives is not lighting up during the start up sequence. So I power down the computer, pop the panel and give each ribbon and power supply connection a wiggle and PRESTO suddenly my computer knows how to boot up without a stupid start disc.
Really damn happy I didn't insert a start disc and start diagnosing the problem based upon what my computer is telling me to do simply because denying it power for 15 minutes made it unable to read a ribbon or power connection to one of the DVD drives.
So basically I got lucky. Would have been really easy to miss and quite honestly this kind of crap is unacceptable in terms of requisite knowledge base and maintenance.
But of course our entire lives now revolve around them. And more and more people want to require the involvement of your computer to pay your bills, operate a business or just rent a damn movie. And it's a damn fallible thing to revolve your life around. Damn things were a lot more tolerable when all they did were save text and play games.
I really wish I could shoot the computer with my 1911.
Doc Safari
02-02-12, 22:35
LOL! What a timely thread! I sat here and watched Glenn Beck's website lock up my browser until I had to shut the internet down with Ctrl+Alt+Del about four different times. Since his website is the only one that does it I'm tempted to e-mail him and ask WTF, Over?
I seriously came close to putting my boot through the tower more than once.
One day, the sun is going to rise on me not needing a cell phone, a computer, a land line, and maybe not even a TV or radio.
Cesiumsponge
02-02-12, 22:36
Without computers, you wouldn't have the ability to share your hatred with us all
Shit, this computer I've built has been running non-stop (except for power outages and accursed Windows update restarts) for over four years on a water cooling system without major issues and minor upgrades. Four years for a computer is almost equivalent to 100 years for a firearm. :D
Did I mention I hate computers?
I really wish I could shoot the computer with my 1911.
You can!
My brother's father in law had a similar problem with his computer three years ago.
I think the *modem* quit working ( yes modem ).
So in desperation, he took the monitor ( 'cuz thats where the brains are ) out back and gave it talking to with the 12 ga.
See, anything is possible if you just open your mind...
Four years for a computer is almost equivalent to 100 years for a firearm.
No...it isn't. But that is the kind of horseshit computer people try and sell you. Some things last and some things are extremely fragile pieces of crap that will be useless in the time it takes to to think about a new President.
But for some reason we build our lives around such fallible things. Of course we also elect crappy Presidents so there is that too. I just think if we are going to make something such a major component of our lives, like we have with computers, it should be as reliable and rugged as the things we "might need" like firearms.
Belmont31R
02-02-12, 23:36
No...it isn't. But that is the kind of horseshit computer people try and sell you. Some things last and some things are extremely fragile pieces of crap that will be useless in the time it takes to to think about a new President.
But for some reason we build our lives around such fallible things. Of course we also elect crappy Presidents so there is that too. I just think if we are going to make something such a major component of our lives, like we have with computers, it should be as reliable and rugged as the things we "might need" like firearms.
Computers are consumables. The whole thing is built around everyone getting a new machine every 2-3 years.
Computers are consumables. The whole thing is built around everyone getting a new machine every 2-3 years.
On the PC end maybe. (With some manufacturers)
My newest Mac is about 3 1/4 years old and my oldest is around 4 1/2 to 5 years old. These are all currently used and running machines and I expect to use them all another several years. When they get retired, it will not be because they don't work any more, but rather because the state of the art is advanced so far that I decide I want a new one :) My main one I am typing on right now will be 4 years old in a couple months. My notebook (Macbook) is the youngest at 3 1/4 and is one I got new in a trade for a complete DD upper and parts right after the election of 08 (Nov 08).
Not trying to start a PC vs Mac war here. Rather, to point out differences in business model. There are PC companies who build their stuff to a higher standard, but they also charge more for their computers. Because most PCs are basically identical (for better or worse), they compete on price and in order to get the lowest price, they buy the cheapest components, which comes with a cost in longevity of the component. Basically a race to the bottom.
You can probably find parallels in the firearms industry. Some manufacturers use top quality parts. Others cut corners and compete on price alone and have a race to the bottom...
CarlosDJackal
02-03-12, 11:50
"To err is human. But it takes a computer to really screw things up!!" :D
Cesiumsponge
02-03-12, 12:44
No...it isn't. But that is the kind of horseshit computer people try and sell you. Some things last and some things are extremely fragile pieces of crap that will be useless in the time it takes to to think about a new President.
But for some reason we build our lives around such fallible things. Of course we also elect crappy Presidents so there is that too. I just think if we are going to make something such a major component of our lives, like we have with computers, it should be as reliable and rugged as the things we "might need" like firearms.
The durability of a clump of metal parts versus a piece of equipment with millions of sub-micron circuits...its silly to expect one last as long as the other. Folks use their computers for hours 5+ days a week. It's an electromehanical device. It'll probably break now and then. If folks are going to run their guns 40 hours a week, you'll be damned sure stuff will eventually break or wear out. An heirloom gun in the safe that gets some rounds down the pipe now and then isn't going to be worn out like someone running theirs through competitions once a week.
A gun needs to put a hole where you point it. That's the only purpose and you can only do so much innovation with that. I don't know what computer salesmen tell folks but computer parts sold in the consumer market aren't the same as those sold in the enterprise market. Most folks buying a computer are getting a DPMS. Certain computer parts are incredibly rugged and available for purchase. Are you willing to pay $300 for a 16gb jump drive?
...but isn't that the entire point of data redundancy? Folks should be backing up their data on-site if its important to them. Folks can run off-site data backup (or,"cloud",if you want to sound iTrendy). Folks can run RAID systems. The reality is computers are being asked to do more things and to do them faster and our ability to advance the technology isn't showing signs of slowing. It is an incredibly complex piece of technology requiring incredibly complex technology to manufacture.
The price of technology is that items are generally consumable. Today, they aren't even worth fixing. When is the last time you saw a radio and television repair shop? Besides, computers have finite lives even if you keep them in a vault. The electrolyte in electrolytic capacitors in the motherboards eventually dry up and become useless. That's the reality of it. Collector cars have their rubber parts crack. Old guns have their wood stocks swell.
The durability of a clump of metal parts versus a piece of equipment with millions of sub-micron circuits...its silly to expect one last as long as the other. Folks use their computers for hours 5+ days a week. It's an electromehanical device. It'll probably break now and then.
I actually do get that, I'm just venting and noting the folly of centering our lives around something so vulnerable.
If folks are going to run their guns 40 hours a week, you'll be damned sure stuff will eventually break or wear out. An heirloom gun in the safe that gets some rounds down the pipe now and then isn't going to be worn out like someone running theirs through competitions once a week.
The 1911 in question has seen three wars; WWI, WWII and Korea and is still running strong. I realize mechanical things are more reliable, for example well built Night Vision from the late 70s can hardly be expected to still work.
So I'm really not missing that point, I just find computers grossly unreliable.
...but isn't that the entire point of data redundancy? Folks should be backing up their data on-site if its important to them. Folks can run off-site data backup (or,"cloud",if you want to sound iTrendy). Folks can run RAID systems. The reality is computers are being asked to do more things and to do them faster and our ability to advance the technology isn't showing signs of slowing. It is an incredibly complex piece of technology requiring incredibly complex technology to manufacture.
I didn't lose any data. I actually keep 5 different drives for redundant backups. If you reread the OP, my problem was not related to data loss or any kind of drive failure.
So I'm really not missing that point, I just find computers grossly unreliable.
Stop buying the Olympic Arms or DPMS or Jennings of computers then!
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No...it isn't. But that is the kind of horseshit computer people try and sell you. Some things last and some things are extremely fragile pieces of crap that will be useless in the time it takes to to think about a new President.
But for some reason we build our lives around such fallible things. Of course we also elect crappy Presidents so there is that too. I just think if we are going to make something such a major component of our lives, like we have with computers, it should be as reliable and rugged as the things we "might need" like firearms.
To be fair, if you actually used your nearly century old 1911 with the kind of regularity as you do your computer, it likely wouldn't last 4 years. Actually, it would probably last only a few months before needing to replace basically everything. After four years the relatively soft steel that was used in those old 1911s will mean that the slide will likely be toast too.
My computer stays on almost all the time, and I use it for something on the order of 4-5 hours a day. Based on your post count, I suspect you probably spend more time on your computer than I do.
Food for thought.
Stop buying the Olympic Arms or DPMS or Jennings of computers then!
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Mine is a build done by a guy who is far more expert than I.
Mine is a build done by a guy who is far more expert than I.
Lots of DPMS/Olympic Frankenbuilds out there ;)
Sounds to me like a cable came a little loose. Whether that is the builder's fault or "karma" or "luck" I don't know...
I guess it is like the receiver extension coming loose or something.
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Lots of DPMS/Olympic Frankenbuilds out there ;)
Sounds to me like a cable came a little loose. Whether that is the builder's fault or "karma" or "luck" I don't know...
I guess it is like the receiver extension coming loose or something.
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The cable didn't come loose. Like I noted, the change occurred in the 15 minutes or so that we were without power. For whatever reason, the connection wasn't being made.
I don't think it is a brand issue or a build issue. I think it is just a matter of sensitive and complex electronics which are easily befuddled, and that was the point I was making.
Cesiumsponge
02-03-12, 19:33
There is a lot going on in a computer you're always going to have a greater chance of something going wrong simply because it's doing billions of calculations every second and sending an endless stream of 0's and 1's on microscopic circuits miles long. Truthfully, it is amazing the damn things work at all given how incredibly complex they are, how there is so much room for Murphy to worm in, and how we can mass produce them like locusts at a price where most anyone can afford some sort of computer. It seems like software ends up being a bigger problem in most computer issues than hardware.
And unfortunately, it's just going to keep going that way as our technology becomes increasingly advanced. There used to be a time where you'd break out the tool kit so you could change out the tubes in your radio or TV and bias them. I still do that (have a soft spot for tube amplifiers). All our electronics nowadays are disposable. You don't even see the TV & Radio Repair shops around anymore. I can't even work on the car without an OBDII scanner. I guess what it boils down to is you're right...society is increasingly fragile. We depend a lot on our gadgets, and while it makes us vulnerable, it also improves our lives in about every measurable way. If you're backing up all your data so if things go south, you're still in better shape than 99% of folks who put all their eggs in one basket.
Hell, if the worst thing that happens in my day is the computer goes down, that seems very much a first-world problem. Sucks ass but it's small peanuts. At least you traced the problem back to a stupid 50-cent piece of cable before having to take more extreme measures.
The cable didn't come loose.
Sure sounds like it did:
So I power down the computer, pop the panel and give each ribbon and power supply connection a wiggle and PRESTO suddenly my computer knows how to boot up without a stupid start disc.
However it happened, it sounds like the cable [disk or PS] or something had come slightly loose or otherwise the connection was slightly flaky. Maybe with the power out, and no juice flowing through it, the slightly loose cable oxidized or something, or without juice, whatever electromagnetic forces were keeping things close enough to work, stopped being a factor. Or it cooled down and something contracted. Or maybe the cable has a bad wire in it and when it cooled down it contracted and when you touched them to wiggle or push them in it was enough to establish contact.
Like I noted, the change occurred in the 15 minutes or so that we were without power. For whatever reason, the connection wasn't being made.
I don't think it is a brand issue or a build issue. I think it is just a matter of sensitive and complex electronics which are easily befuddled, and that was the point I was making.
I don't think the electronics were befuddled in this case. (Not that that doesn't happen. I build my own servers and have seen enough marginal main boards or other pieces that just flake out)
Anyway, stop playing around with the DPMS or Olympic arms of computers and you will have fewer episodes of "befuddlement"! :p
Oh. my .God. Do not get me started on the computer rant.
Ah, to late- I to am literally about to take my tower, hurl it out the back door and riddle it with many bullets.
The grand irony of that is it's a desktop I put together myself to "save money" while still getting high level performance from better-than-average parts, and it has been no end of trouble. Bad video card straight off the bat, multiple bad hard drives, and a hot case + hot CPU makes for a fun combo....:mad:
I can safely say, after this I will never build another computer again. I am going to buy the "DPMS" computer from wally world, invest in back-up hardware, and throw it out when it doesn't work anymore.
This from a guy who thought a degree in IST was a good idea (and hated it the farther I got along).:rolleyes:
Belmont31R
02-03-12, 22:16
Ah, to late- I to am literally about to take my tower, hurl it out the back door and riddle it with many bullets.
I threw a PS2 out of a 4th story barracks window. Made sure no one was down there first, though! Felt good...:cool:
Thomas M-4
02-03-12, 22:41
The whole system is designed to keep you upgrading..
I have run homebuilt computers for yrs at at a time overclocking them with out a problem I had one front side overclocked over 600mhz continuous with out ever being turned off for almost a yr. What gets ****ed is the software [when you get networked].
LowSpeed_HighDrag
02-03-12, 22:56
When people insist on buying only the best gun products, and then buy a shitty computer that they will use everyday, it cracks me up.
I have a 15" Macbook Pro w/I7, the fastest processors fans and memory cards that the geek squad could install, and a 500gig HD with a 250gig Solid State hardrive as well. It cost me about $2900 total, but I use it non stop all day, so that was well worth it. It takes about 7 second from me pressing "On" to surfing the web, and its over a year old. The operating system transitions (from Snow to Lion) cost $30 and were downloaded from the App store. It does so many things that I dont even know really what to do with it, but it does what I want and it does it well. In the time that I have had my Mac, my wife has gone through one Toshiba Satellite and is about done with her HP craptop.
Sure sounds like it did
None of them were loose.
Maybe with the power out, and no juice flowing through it, the slightly loose cable oxidized or something, or without juice, whatever electromagnetic forces were keeping things close enough to work, stopped being a factor. Or it cooled down and something contracted. Or maybe the cable has a bad wire in it and when it cooled down it contracted and when you touched them to wiggle or push them in it was enough to establish contact.
Any of that is possible, even likely.
I don't think the electronics were befuddled in this case. (Not that that doesn't happen. I build my own servers and have seen enough marginal main boards or other pieces that just flake out)
Anyway, stop playing around with the DPMS or Olympic arms of computers and you will have fewer episodes of "befuddlement"! :p
You'll have to excuse me if I disagree. To me slightly oxidizing or cooling and contracting being enough to disable the start up sequence is exactly what I would call "befuddled." Quite honestly, if it was COMPLETELY disconnected a reliable device would have simply gone on to the next sequence and started Windows. I would have noticed it was not connected when the DVD player simply didn't show up on the list.
And I'm not running a Dell or anything. Drives are Western Digital and things like that, but that is irrelevant as it wasn't a drive failure. Again, I don't think this is a build or brand issue. I've been thought enough computers and seen guys who are as serious about computers as I am about guns go through enough computers to know it really doesn't matter, they are just finicky things that are easily befuddled. And we aren't even talking about buggy software yet.
I also think we are getting off message here. So to reiterate.
1. Computers frustrate me and I hate the unacceptably high level of maintenance and user knowledge required to operate me.
2. Any device that can be completely disabled because a cable connection to a non essential peripheral has oxidized, cooled or completely become unplugged probably shouldn't be trusted with the most critical things in your life. My TV doesn't stop working simply because the DVD player connection worked loose.
When people insist on buying only the best gun products, and then buy a shitty computer that they will use everyday, it cracks me up.
Who bought a shitty computer? I didn't.
Eventually I realize that one of the stupid display lights on one of the DVD drives is not lighting up during the start up sequence. So I power down the computer, pop the panel and give each ribbon and power supply connection a wiggle and PRESTO suddenly my computer knows how to boot up without a stupid start disc.
So basically I got lucky. Would have been really easy to miss and quite honestly this kind of crap is unacceptable in terms of requisite knowledge base and maintenance.
Who bought a shitty computer? I didn't.
hmmmmm
can read the post on a computer forum
out shooting my gun quit working I had to open it up wiggle some parts and it started working again :) glad I did not buy a shitty rifle
crap does happen but that crap should not happen it could have been when its built ? and not pushed on as much as it should have been ?
crap does happen but that crap should not happen it could have been when its built ? and not pushed on as much as it should have been ?
I think some of you are desperately missing my point.
:laugh:
I get it just having fun :)
Thomas M-4
02-05-12, 02:50
When people insist on buying only the best gun products, and then buy a shitty computer that they will use everyday, it cracks me up.
I have a 15" Macbook Pro w/I7, the fastest processors fans and memory cards that the geek squad could install, and a 500gig HD with a 250gig Solid State hardrive as well. It cost me about $2900 total, but I use it non stop all day, so that was well worth it. It takes about 7 second from me pressing "On" to surfing the web, and its over a year old. The operating system transitions (from Snow to Lion) cost $30 and were downloaded from the App store. It does so many things that I dont even know really what to do with it, but it does what I want and it does it well. In the time that I have had my Mac, my wife has gone through one Toshiba Satellite and is about done with her HP craptop.
It is all about mores'law all you people that just plunked down cash for a a a Iphone 4s guess what I have been told from my source that the I phone 5 will have a built in projector so you can watch your media. Some will say thats no biggy I will just upgrade but guess what it will never stop.
What i belive SteyrAUG point is that you you never seem to get what any were neer your return to dollar compared to other comsumer products .
It is all about mores'law all you people that just plunked down cash for a a a Iphone 4s guess what I have been told from my source that the I phone 5 will have a built in projector so you can watch your media. Some will say thats no biggy I will just upgrade but guess what it will never stop.
What i belive SteyrAUG point is that you you never seem to get what any were neer your return to dollar compared to other comsumer products .
Only when you buy crap computers. I've certainly gotten my miney's worth on all my computers in the last 15 years. My machines run and run and run. My main desktop is 3.5 years old and will be my main one for a few more years.
Chad
Thomas M-4
02-05-12, 09:22
Only when you buy crap computers. I've certainly gotten my miney's worth on all my computers in the last 15 years. My machines run and run and run. My main desktop is 3.5 years old and will be my main one for a few more years.
Chad
That is true to a certain extent if you invest to get the most up to date equipment it will take awhile before it is out dated.
But... There is also a flip side to buying the newest stuff out there it is that you might unknowing become a betta tester for new hard ware or sofware that was released to soon. I have had that happen to me on a couple of very expensive motherboards and one crap laptop. It is a balancing act along with a very slight rolling of the dice.
That is true to a certain extent if you invest to get the most up to date equipment it will take awhile before it is out dated.
But... There is also a flip side to buying the newest stuff out there it is that you might unknowing become a betta tester for new hard ware or sofware that was released to soon. I have had that happen to me on a couple of very expensive motherboards and one crap laptop. It is a balancing act along with a very slight rolling of the dice.
If I were building (Wintel) PCs [which I have done in the past and do do for servers], I wouldn't necessarily buy the most cutting edge latest MB from the latest crap Chinese company. I would buy motherboards from the top tier makers, that had been out for a little while and had gotten good reviews. You can still end up with a lemon, but the chances are not as high. Same way you can buy a Colt 6920 lemon, but the chances are not high.
A main server of mine in my hosting business I run (very small business) I built in 2004 and it is still running strong. Tyan dual opteron MB. I did have to replace the power supply after around 4 or 5 years (one of the two in the redundant supply failed) but that is all. I have several other servers that are not quite as old that are running fine. A couple disks have been replaced (but they were all part of large redundant arrays so it did not cause problems). (These disks were not enterprise disks either).
And with (Wintel) PCs in general, if you aren't buying from a high end boutique maker, you are buying from people who are competing on price only and hence are in the rush to the bottom of the barrel.
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Dropbox plus cheap, disposable, computer. When it breaks, get a new one, move on.
Thomas M-4
02-05-12, 11:03
If I were building (Wintel) PCs [which I have done in the past and do do for servers], I wouldn't necessarily buy the most cutting edge latest MB from the latest crap Chinese company. I would buy motherboards from the top tier makers, that had been out for a little while and had gotten good reviews. You can still end up with a lemon, but the chances are not as high. Same way you can buy a Colt 6920 lemon, but the chances are not high.
A main server of mine in my hosting business I run (very small business) I built in 2004 and it is still running strong. Tyan dual opteron MB. I did have to replace the power supply after around 4 or 5 years (one of the two in the redundant supply failed) but that is all. I have several other servers that are not quite as old that are running fine. A couple disks have been replaced (but they were all part of large redundant arrays so it did not cause problems). (These disks were not enterprise disks either).
And with (Wintel) PCs in general, if you aren't buying from a high end boutique maker, you are buying from people who are competing on price only and hence are in the rush to the bottom of the barrel.
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It was from a top tier manufacture and at the time that I purchased it
It had good testing results on toms hardware which were promply changed once it was found out the bios had major problems of course this was after I had purchased it.. I cant remeber the name of it I do remember replacing the board with a gigabite one. It turned out to be a fairly good computer still running today the video card did go out after about 4 yrs which btw was top of the line back then payed north of $500 for it.
You are right if you buy the best that you can aford you do get more use out of. But buying the best doesnt automatic mean you might not have problems.
It was from a top tier manufacture and at the time that I purchased it
It had good testing results on toms hardware which were promply changed once it was found out the bios had major problems of course this was after I had purchased it.. I cant remeber the name of it I do remember replacing the board with a gigabite one. It turned out to be a fairly good computer still running today the video card did go out after about 4 yrs which btw was top of the line back then payed north of $500 for it.
You are right if you buy the best that you can aford you do get more use out of. But buying the best doesnt automatic mean you might not have problems.
Everyone makes lemons. And it is even possible that top tier people have a "lemon" product (a sku that turns out to not work the way intended). But random problems from shoddy QC, shoddy design, shoddy parts (like low end capacitors and stuff like that) are usually avoided.
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Dropbox plus cheap, disposable, computer. When it breaks, get a new one, move on.
Do you have a lot of Oly or DPMS rifles and when one breaks, you just move on?
Even if you use PMAGs or Colt equivalent GI mags with them?
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Dropbox plus cheap, disposable, computer. When it breaks, get a new one, move on.
I just got suckered back into good hardware (Battlefield3 happens), but I still don't even use it with important data.
Self-built, only top end parts - still had to replace the motherboard, superglue a hard drive back together, and a $500 GPU that doensn't output the correct video because they haven't released adequate drivers yet... I still can't figure out how to roll VBIOS backwards, and this is just the first month.
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