Mag tests

[murphman]

Hi all, I tried using the search function but was unable to find a post about this but recently I purchased 10 30 round Pmags and want to test them to make sure none of them happen to have a malfunction.
In testing these mags to make sure they feed properly is the only true way to test them is by loading all 30 rounds? or will a quicker 10 round load give you the same information?

I am assuming a full 30 rounds is the only way because you need to see how the rounds feed on a fully compressed spring but if i am not correct than there is no reason to waste 20 rounds when 10 rounds will tell me what i want to know. Thanks all for your information.

[C4IGrant]

Hi all, I tried using the search function but was unable to find a post about this but recently I purchased 10 30 round Pmags and want to test them to make sure none of them happen to have a malfunction.
In testing these mags to make sure they feed properly is the only true way to test them is by loading all 30 rounds? or will a quicker 10 round load give you the same information?

I am assuming a full 30 rounds is the only way because you need to see how the rounds feed on a fully compressed spring but if i am not correct than there is no reason to waste 20 rounds when 10 rounds will tell me what i want to know. Thanks all for your information.


You can load them up to 28 if you like and test that they will lock into the AR with a closed bolt. Then blast away to see if everything feeds properly.

For me, I would just load 1-3 rounds in them and make sure that the bolt locks back on the last round.



C4

[ST911]

Just shoot them. If you have problems, junk them or return to sender. If you want to be more deliberate, load them to full capacity, partial capacity (1/2 - 1/3), and a couple of rounds to verify engagement of the bolt catch.

I consider full capacity to be 28rds.

[Amicus]

Just shoot them. If you have problems, junk them or return to sender. If you want to be more deliberate, load them to full capacity, partial capacity (1/2 - 1/3), and a couple of rounds to verify engagement of the bolt catch.

I consider full capacity to be 28rds.

That's the way I do it, if I want to quickly establish function for mags.

Best way to administer is to number your mags, keep a log as to function and problems, and ruthlessly deal with those that don't work.

[BGREID]

I always load mine with 30, they seat on a closed bolt. I have never had a problem with any of them.

[murphman]

Thanks for the replies about mag testing, i do appreciate it.


Murph

[C4IGrant]

I always load mine with 30, they seat on a closed bolt. I have never had a problem with any of them.

Interesting. Have you ever had someone put you under a timer doing a Tac Reload drill? Or just had you do any type of Tac reload under stress?

This is where the 28 rule is king and why all professional instructors (especially ones with combat experience) down load their mags by 2.



C4

[Splintra]

I've seen the following info put out by Magpul in a FAQ on the topic of only loading 28 rounds in a PMAG 30.

Quoting Magpul:

SHOULD I DOWNLOAD BY 2 ROUNDS TO FIT THE PMAG™ IN A WEAPON WITH THE BOLT CLOSED?

The PMAG™ holds a full load of 5.56x45mm NATO (.223 Remington) ammunition with no need for downloading below the listed capacity. The PMAG™ is marginally longer than aluminum magazines allowing for proper clearance to insert and seat a fully-loaded magazine into the weapon.


The PMAG is designed to be inserted into a weapon and seated properly with a full load of 30 rounds. This is unlike other magazine designs which may fail to lock into place if the weapon’s bolt is closed. For the PMAG 30, this increases firepower by 7.1% versus aluminum magazines which are typically downloaded by two rounds. With a double combat load of 420 rounds, this uses one less magazine.

[BGREID]

Interesting. Have you ever had someone put you under a timer doing a Tac Reload drill? Or just had you do any type of Tac reload under stress?

This is where the 28 rule is king and why all professional instructors (especially ones with combat experience) down load their mags by 2.



C4

I shoot 3 gun matches and it has never been an issue even with GI mags. My life does not depend on it but if it hurt my times I would not load 30. It just has not been an problem. I have owned AR's since the early 80's so I have some experience.

[f.2]

TECHNICAL NOTE 41: FIELD TESTING OF M-16 RIFLE MAGAZINES (http://www.armalite.com/images/Tech%20Notes%5CTech%20Note%2041,%20Field%20Testing%20of%20M-16%20Rifle%20Magazines%20030205%E2%80%A6.pdf), armalite.com/, pdf

[ST911]

I am of the opinion that there are no magazine offerings currently available that will reliably load 30rds, and seat easily and positively beneath a closed bolt, across their production. I've seen and owned examples of each that will, and some will do so more consistently than others, but not enough that I'd call any of them a true 30rd magazine.

[Scoby]

I use Pmags exclusively and I always download mine by two.

I've tried to load them to full 30 rd capacity before but always had to slam the hell of out of them to get them to seat.

[Failure2Stop]

Interesting. Have you ever had someone put you under a timer doing a Tac Reload drill? Or just had you do any type of Tac reload under stress?

This is where the 28 rule is king and why all professional instructors (especially ones with combat experience) down load their mags by 2.


I train with 30, but combat loadout is 28.

[ASH556]

I'm curious to know if the lower plays any part in the equation. For instance, with my previous Lauer lower I had difficulty inserting a 28rd gi mag on a closed bolt, but with my DD, it's not an issue. In fact, I find a 30 rd Pmag to lock in easier on a closed bolt than a 28 rd gi mag.

[C4IGrant]

I am of the opinion that there are no magazine offerings currently available that will reliably load 30rds, and seat easily and positively beneath a closed bolt, across their production. I've seen and owned examples of each that will, and some will do so more consistently than others, but not enough that I'd call any of them a true 30rd magazine.

Correct. We download all mags. PMAG's, USGI, Lancer, etc.



C4

[C4IGrant]

I'm curious to know if the lower plays any part in the equation. For instance, with my previous Lauer lower I had difficulty inserting a 28rd gi mag on a closed bolt, but with my DD, it's not an issue. In fact, I find a 30 rd Pmag to lock in easier on a closed bolt than a 28 rd gi mag.

Yes, it can.



C4

[Generalpie]

I've never tried it with the shot timer but I think I will do just that next time I can short term steal one from work.

I have always loaded 28 until I found I could easily load 31 into my pmags and they lock in easy with 30. The USGI mags I have are still loaded with 28 because of couple of them won't lock in with the bolt closed easy.

I want to do some reload drills next time anyway I think I will give it a try and see what happens with the times.

[Suwannee Tim]

.....there is no reason to waste 20 rounds when 10 rounds will tell me what i want to know......

We don't call it "wasting". We call it "shooting".

[El Cid]

Interesting. Have you ever had someone put you under a timer doing a Tac Reload drill? Or just had you do any type of Tac reload under stress?

This is where the 28 rule is king and why all professional instructors (especially ones with combat experience) down load their mags by 2.



C4
Well, not all... This subject came up during Pat McNamara's course last fall. He was of the opinion that a 30rd mag is just that. One of his statements was that stripper clips come in 10, 10, and 10. Not 10, 10, and 8. ;)

I've not downloaded a mag in 22yrs though I admit some can be more challenging when they have aftermarket parts.

[REM]

Kyle Lamb had the same opinion when asked during a class I took from him a couple of years ago. He said he always loads his mags to 30 rounds.

[skullworks]

As others have stated the PMAG was designed to lock on a closed bolt even when filled to capacity (30). Since the PMAG is designed to be stored with the Impact Cover on - which pushes the top round down (to remove the stress on the feed lips) much as a BCG would do when the PMAG is inserted on a closed bolt - I would hazard to say that if the impact cover won't snap onto the mag that is your first clue that something is wrong.

If you cannot load a PMAG into your rifle on a closed bolt it sounds as though you either have an out-of-spec lower, or you have managed to load the mag with 31 cartridges (which I have seen done and Generalpie confirms - a PMAG loaded to 31 will NOT lock into place on a closed bolt).

Splintra got his quote from this document (http://store.magpul.com/downloads/PMAG%20-%20Product%20Guide%20090430_BETA.pdf).

[ST911]

If you cannot load a PMAG into your rifle on a closed bolt it sounds as though you either have an out-of-spec lower, or you have managed to load the mag with 31 cartridges (which I have seen done and Generalpie confirms - a PMAG loaded to 31 will NOT lock into place on a closed bolt).

I think some of this issue is in the difficulty of defining and/or quantifying ease or difficulty in seating the magazine. Some will fail a mag containing 30rds if it doesn't slide in smooth and lock without any effort. Some will accept a certain amount of effort and not consider it a problem.

I know for sure that I, and others, aren't mistaking 31 rounds for 30 when contemplating the issue, nor using good-as guns.

[skullworks]

I think some of this issue is in the difficulty of defining and/or quantifying ease or difficulty in seating the magazine. Some will fail a mag containing 30rds if it doesn't slide in smooth and lock without any effort. Some will accept a certain amount of effort and not consider it a problem.
Probably so; I'm a slide-and-tug kinda guy myself (feel free to respond with dirty comments if needed :D).

[Tzook]

^ If that ain't what she said..... Nothing is. ^

I have relatively unused pmags (compared to most of you guys I'm sure) and I usually load 30, and chamber the round. Generally they won't lock if I chamber a round and stick the mag in with a full 30 rounds. I imagine this will become less and less of a problem the more rounds I run through, but for now that seems to work pretty well for me.