View Full Version : Palmetto State Armory: problems with their components and customer service
SomeOtherGuy
02-03-12, 12:12
I’ve had problems with both component quality and customer service with Palmetto State Armory. I will summarize the issues and then post my email exchange with them. Per forum policy I have tried to resolve the dispute with them privately, with no luck.
In May 2011 I ordered a PSA “premium” bolt carrier group, two of the PSA bolt assemblies (MPI/shot peened), and some other stuff not relevant here. Upon receiving the order I saw that one bolt had a burr on a lug that was parkerized and apparently a manufacturing defect. I emailed them and they sent me a UPS call tag and a replacement bolt that had no apparent defects. So far so good. Everything went in storage.
In November 2011 I built a 300 AAC Blackout upper from components, and decided to use the PSA “premium” BCG in it. In testing of the upper it fed, fired, and ejected, but would only lock the bolt back about 15% of the time. I did normal troubleshooting and finally noticed that the bolt carrier’s cam pin track was not the same shape or dimensions as any other bolt carrier I have – it didn’t extend as far down the side of the carrier at the rear end (where the cam pin is when the bolt is locked). I also found it difficult, but possible, to remove the cam pin for disassembly. I didn’t change anything else, or move any of the gas system components at all.
I installed a lightly used BCM BCG in the same upper and immediately had both proper function and the bolt locking back on empty 100% of the time. I also noticed odd wear patterns on the PSA bolt, which I think may be from it being shoved into locked position by a carrier that wasn’t quite right.
I contacted PSA with the problem and asked for a replacement. They indicated they would do so if I sent it back (no UPS call tag this time). I sent it back. They returned to me what is supposedly my original BCG that they “worked on” and test fired 30 rounds. The bolt on the returned BCG shows severe wear, worse than what I sent to them, along with minor damage to one lug that looks like an impact, and I cannot remove the cam pin for disassembly no matter how I fiddle with it. I haven’t tried being destructive on the cam pin, since I don’t see any reason to accept a defective BCG that was returned to me defective. The carrier appears to now have a properly machined track, and that track appears to be parkerized (not sure that's compatible with this being my original carrier "worked on") but I can't tell for sure since I can't disassemble it.
As in the emails below I told PSA, politely, that this was unacceptable and asked for a refund of my purchase price, or at the least a replacement NEW BCG and covering my costs of shipping the defective BCG back to them. They told me on January 13 that they could send me a UPS call tag and replace the BCG, and I accepted by reply email. Since then, only silence. I’ve followed up, and tried calling on the 27th with no answer and no ability to leave a message. I’m aware of the SHOT Show and would have understood a week of nothing because of that, but it has now been three weeks of silence.
The emails below have my identifying information removed but all the other text is unedited.
SomeOtherGuy
02-03-12, 12:14
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: firstname lastname
Sent: Mon 1/23/12 12:54 PM
To: info@palmettostatearmory.com; shipping@palmettostatearmory.com
Subject: RE: defective bolt carrier from May order - RE: PALMETTO STATE ARMORY LLC Order Receipt
Hello-
Just following up on the email below. Can you send me a UPS call tag for the defective BCG as per your January 13 email?
thanks,
Firstname lastname
============================================================
From: email address
To: info@palmettostatearmory.com
Subject: RE: defective bolt carrier from May order - RE: PALMETTO STATE ARMORY LLC Order Receipt
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 23:45:57 -0500
Hello-
I would like you to send a call tag and ship a replacement when you receive this one back. I still can't get the cam pin out and the bolt has heavily worn or damaged lugs as I mentioned before.
thanks,
Firstname lastname
============================================================
From: info@palmettostatearmory.com
To: email address
Subject: RE: defective bolt carrier from May order - RE: PALMETTO STATE ARMORY LLC Order Receipt
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 19:08:16 -0500
Firstname,
I can send you a call tag and replace your item for you if you would like us to. We confirmed with the armorer that it was functional but if there is an issue still, this is how we would like to resolve it with you if you would like.
Thanks,
Customer Service
PSA
From: Firstname lastname [mailto:email address]
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 1:18 PM
To: info@palmettostatearmory.com
Cc: shipping@palmettostatearmory.com
Subject: FW: defective bolt carrier from May order - RE: PALMETTO STATE ARMORY LLC Order Receipt
Hello-
Following up again. I have a non-functional bolt carrier that I paid $119.95 for and shipped back to you at my expense only to have it returned in different but equally bad condition. A refund of my initial purchase price and my shipping costs is the most reasonable resolution to this, but if you won't do that I would take a replacement new, properly functioning bolt carrier. Please advise.
Firstname lastname
Phone #
============================================================
From: email address
To: shipping@palmettostatearmory.com
Subject: RE: defective bolt carrier from May order - RE: PALMETTO STATE ARMORY LLC Order Receipt
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2012 10:21:10 -0500
Hello-
I have not heard anything back yet. Have you made a decision? Even if I'm only getting a replacement, can you at least pay for my shipping on returning the defective one to you?
thanks,
Firstname lastname
========================================
From: Shipping@palmettostatearmory.com
To: email address
Subject: RE: defective bolt carrier from May order - RE: PALMETTO STATE ARMORY LLC Order Receipt
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 12:01:21 -0500
I will speak with the armorer on Monday and see about sending you a replacement. I apologize for the inconvenience, but our warranty is to repair or replace, not refund. We will make it right for you, but all we have to go on is what he tells us. I will be back in touch early next week, and I apologize for the inconvenience.
Please let us know if there is anything else you need, and thank you for your inquiry.
Palmetto State Armory Customer Service
803.760.4004
From: Firstname lastname [mailto:email address]
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 9:19 PM
To: info@palmettostatearmory.com
Subject: RE: defective bolt carrier from May order - RE: PALMETTO STATE ARMORY LLC Order Receipt
Hello-
UPS delivered my original BCG back to me this afternoon. There is a handwritten note that your armorer inspected and test fired the BCG "after working on it a bit" and it worked fine for 30 rounds. I took a look, tried to inspect it and found that I cannot even remove the cam pin now. The cam pin was very difficult to remove before and is now impossible. I won't bother test firing this if I would never be able to perform basic maintenance on it. I also noticed that the bolt lugs show a lot of wear including one that is beveled and shiny at the front of the lug and has a burr on the outside, probably from whatever impact caused the bevel. I have 47 rds on this bolt and you apparently added 30 - I've never seen a bolt showing this much wear after 77 rds. I have some bolts in the several thousand round count that don't have that much wear.
I am not satisfied with this and very surprised that you would return to me a defective part that I bought new and returned to you as barely used, having shown problems from its first use.
I would like to return this still-defective BCG for a refund of my original purchase price for this BCG ($119.95, see invoice below) and my shipping costs for sending it back to you twice. If you won't take a return then I guess I'll accept a replacement, but I no longer have confidence in this product and am not likely to use it. Please advise.
sincerely,
Firstname lastname
Phone #
========================================
From: info@palmettostatearmory.com
To: email address
Subject: RE: defective bolt carrier from May order - RE: PALMETTO STATE ARMORY LLC Order Receipt
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 11:14:42 -0500
If you will send it to 200 business park blvd, Columbia, sc 29203, we will get another one that is test fired and ready to go sent back out to you. Please include a note that describes the issue (your email will suffice), and we will get that out as soon as we see yours come in. Please put it to ATTN: COLT DRIVER.
Thanks,
Daniel Dodds
Palmetto State Armory
803.760.4004
From: Firstname lastname [mailto:email address]
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 4:18 PM
To: info@palmettostatearmory.com
Subject: defective bolt carrier from May order - RE: PALMETTO STATE ARMORY LLC Order Receipt
Hello-
I ordered a complete BCG from you in May, see below. I just recently went to use it and had some function problems with the newly-assembled upper I was using it in. After inspecting, I discovered that the carrier does not seem to be machined correctly in the cam pin track - it does not go as far down the left side of the carrier as any of my other carriers do, including another PSA that came with a complete PSA upper I ordered two months ago, as well as BCM and DD carriers I have. The track is tight enough that it is tricky and difficult to remove the cam pin (because of interference from the gas key). The upper (my own build) I had problems with is now functioning perfectly with a BCM carrier. I would like to return the PSA BCG and get a direct replacement. I would also like the bolt to be replaced as well because it is showing some funny wear marks for having only 50 rounds through it, which I think may be related to the carrier cam pin track issue.
This is actually the same order where I previously had returned a bolt that had a machining burr left on it. However, as I said above, the PSA BCG that came with the PSA upper I ordered two months ago seems just fine. (I actually used that upper in a competition this past weekend, and have not had a single malfunction with it.)
Could you provide return instructions?
thanks,
Firstname lastname
========================================
> Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 18:26:02 -0600
> From: info@palmettostatearmory.com
> To: email address
> Subject: PALMETTO STATE ARMORY LLC Order Receipt
>
> Thank you for your order.
>
> ========== GENERAL INFORMATION ==========
> Company: PALMETTO STATE ARMORY LLC
> Order date: 5/25/2011
>
> ========== ORDER INFORMATION ==========
> Payment By: Visa __________________
> Status: APPROVED - 05067B
> Order: OnlineOrder_00066013
>
> Product Name: Magpul PMAG new M-Rev 30rd - OD Green
> Item#: 101c
> Unit Price: $14.20
> Quantity: 1
> Shipping Method: MAG price
>
> Product Name: Complete MPI Bolt Assembly
> Item#: 929
> Unit Price: $49.95
> Quantity: 2
> Shipping Method: MAG price
>
> Product Name: Palmetto State Armory Complete Full Auto 5.56 BCG
> - Add a charging handle ($10)
> Item#: 1746b
> Unit Price: $129.95
> Quantity: 1
> Shipping Method: MAG price
>
> Shipping Insurance: $3.05
> Grand Total: $247.10
>
> ========== SHIPPING INFORMATION ==========
> Name: Firstname Lastname
> Day Phone: () phone #
> Email: email address
> Address:
> > US
Sometimes, you get what you pay for. I've often wondered how they could sell "mil-spec" parts so cheap and still make a profit. Working in quality assurance and having experience in supply chain something sounded fishy to me so I've stayed away despite the enticing pricing.
At any rate, I hope they do finally get your squared away but if they're stuff is that out of spec, and that's how they send out reworked components in your case I doubt it's isolated. In my experience as an internal QMS auditor says, "where there's smoke, there's fire".
DeltaSierra
02-03-12, 12:27
Sometimes, you get what you pay for. I've often wondered how they could sell "mil-spec" parts so cheap and still make a profit. working in quality assurance and having experience in supply chain something sounded fishy to me so I've stayed away despite the enticing pricing.
This is what I have thought all along.
Any company that can offer a rifle and an Aimpoint for $999 is doing one of two things - loosing money, or cutting corners.
I don't think they are loosing money, so that only leaves one option...
SomeOtherGuy
02-03-12, 12:33
Sometimes, you get what you pay for.
I have definitely learned that lesson a couple times now, and as I posted in the discussion of the other BCG I had issues with, going forward I'm using only DD, BCM and LMT, all of which have been flawless for me so far, or Colt and Noveske, which I don't have experience with but by reputation should be at least as good.
I'm posting this mostly for the information of the readership. I don't really expect resolution from PSA at this point, but since so many people on various forums have been recommending PSA (I suspect without personal experience) just as had been the case 2-3 years ago for Spike's and 4-5 years ago for CMMG, I thought I should get the word out.
The_War_Wagon
02-03-12, 12:41
I appreciate the heads-up, & empathize with your frustration.
I bought a PSA premium BCG for my FDE plinker I was building. I cut a few more corners with this build than I should have (RRA trigger group! :o ), because I was intending it to BE just a 'plinker,' even though I know better. :rolleyes: Here's HOPING mine turns out better come the spring, when I can get out and put it through its paces.
This is why people should use BravoCompanyUSA.
I've seen guys with issues where they just replace the part without even requesting the original to be returned.
This is a very sad story. I was really rooting for PSA and their new line of inexpensive firearms.
I have only purchased lower parts kits from them in the past and they seemed to be good (better than DPMS parts kits that I now refuse to use anyway).
Sad. :mad:
Breadstick
02-03-12, 13:11
Oh here we go......
if it's a good review with PSA, and it's good quality or customer experience.... out come "it's just a sample of one" snip.
If it's a bad review of PSA here comes all the poo slinging, and fancy quips about "just as good as"......
This is comes from a fella that has way more than once showed clearly his distaine for PSA in just about any PSA thread made, rightly so considering HIS exp....I guess.
I chalk this up to "a sample of one" mostly from the same guy over and over.
I hear more good things from hundreds of people across the scope than bad. From PSA.
Though any thing good from PSA is "just a sample of one"
Anything bad "told ya soo"
It's no surprise though.......considerin'.....
Edit: damn PC locked up on me.....Sucks you have had consistent issues with PSA.
I have not and have ordered many a part through them and have been pleased.....but A: I don't know shit...B: I'm just a sample of one.
This is why people should use BravoCompanyUSA.
I've seen guys with issues where they just replace the part without even requesting the original to be returned.
Happened to me with them and Vltor. Great service!
This is a very sad story. I was really rooting for PSA and their new line of inexpensive firearms.
Me too. Oh well, glad I got something early-on before issues became prevalent. Shit happens.
Oh here we go......
if it's a good review with PSA, and it's good quality or customer experience.... out come "it's just a sample of one" snip.
If it's a bad review of here comes all the poo slinging, and fancy quips about "just as good as"......
I hear what you're saying... but there's still no reason to shop anywhere beyond BravoCompany.
I have no bias one way or another with PSA. :confused:
Oh here we go......
if it's a good review with PSA, and it's good quality or customer experience.... out come "it's just a sample of one" snip.
If it's a bad review of here comes all the poo slinging, and fancy quips about "just as good as"......
This is comes from a fella that has way more than once showed clearly his distaine for PSA in just about any PSA thread made rightly so considering HIS exp....I guess.
I chalk this up to "a sample of one" mostly from the same guy over and over.
I here more good things from hundreds of people across the scope than bad. From PSA.
Though any thing good from PSA is "just a sample of one"
Anything bad "told ya soo"
It's no surprise though.......considerin'.....
It's pretty obvious to me these guys have little to no QA, poor QC and they have people assembling guns that have no idea how the weapon system operates. They shipped mid length uppers with carbine gastubes... Really?
I hear what you're saying... but there's still no reason to shop anywhere beyond BravoCompany.
After dealing with both more than a few times, I'd definitely agree.
It's pretty obvious to me these guys have little to no QA, poor QC and they have people assembling guns that have no idea how the weapon system operates. They shipped mid length uppers with carbine gastubes... Really?
They got shit right sometimes. But it goes without saying that this isn't the industry that'll accept mediocre success rates and lackadaisical QC :)
Breadstick
02-03-12, 13:27
It's pretty obvious to me these guys have little to no QA, poor QC and they have people assembling guns that have no idea how the weapon system operates. They shipped mid length uppers with carbine gastubes... Really?
yep really...that happened.
3 uppers out of the batch of 3000. lets put things into contex here.
All three were resolved and PSA started to test fire every upper now since that happened.
Is not consistant form from them. It was a one time floof.
But I know nay sayers will fling that out of their sleeve any chance they get......
Breadstick
02-03-12, 13:32
I hear what you're saying... but there's still no reason to shop anywhere beyond BravoCompany.
I have no bias one way or another with PSA. :confused:
No not really any bias atleast from me. I don't care REALLY cause I've gone BCM (when in stock), G&G, Reiner for goods too.
Just too much irony sometimes for me to sit back and smell farts....I gotta let one out too from time to time.
Ok... now the gas tube thing is
I now have a Bias on the PSA topic.
(maybe they hired that guy here who tried to convert his carbine to a middy)
yep really...that happened.
3 uppers out of the batch of 3000. lets put things into contex here.
All three were resolved and PSA started to test fire every upper now since that happened.
Is not consistant form from them. It was a one time floof.
But I know nay sayers will fling that out of their sleeve any chance they get......
I agree it gets a little thick in here at times. And to be honest if I needed a carbine right now I would still probably take a look at a sale from PSA. But the initial reports from this company's offerings were really good and their prices amazing. Now we see post after post of crap that is sullying to a good name and in business that is really all you have sometimes is a name.
It is disappointing to see not only the quality of workmanship but more importantly how they handled it, twice apparently. I am sure it will get fixed but again it is disappointing as it is all totally preventable.
SpookyPistolero
02-03-12, 13:41
I don't get these discussions. If you're talking about whether PSA/Spikes/whatever is 'as good as' brand X (BCM/DD/Colt/etc), then you've missed the point. Why screw around with Unknowns?!? We KNOW certain makers produce reliable products. Why would you purposely take a detour away from something know to be excellent?!?
If there were a shortage, I'd understand. If the price difference was measured by four figures, I'd understand.
Breadstick
02-03-12, 13:42
Ok... now the gas tube thing is fukkin retarded.
That's some LWRCi stupidity... I now have a Bias on the PSA topic.
(maybe they hired that guy here who tried to convert his carbine to a middy)
you know I have to agree.
Now I won't froth at the mouth to defend PSA, but I will stick up for them since my exp has been good, thye parts I've recieved good, comunitcation has been good too, via emails.
I don't get these discussions. If you're talking about whether PSA/Spikes/whatever is 'as good as' brand X (BCM/DD/Colt/etc), then you've missed the point. Why screw around with Unknowns?!? We KNOW certain makers produce reliable products. Why would you purposely take a detour away from something know to be excellent?!?
If there were a shortage, I'd understand. If the price difference was measured by four figures, I'd understand.
Because they were substantially cheaper. The price made it attractive and they knew it. Penetration (HA) pricing strategy.
Got a stripped 12" upper for $360. Can't find that anywhere else I don't think? With BCMs BCG and a Centurion Rail...it may become one of my favorite uppers. But, judging by things I've heard, not sure if I'd consider em in the future for anything but a stripped lower.
I have had an bad experience with PSA just last week and this week as well. The order was supposed to arrive last friday, I paid for expedited shipping and received a UPS confirmation of the tag's creation. I needed the parts to finish the AR by the beginning of the week to bring it on a trip with me and I expressed this desire and need in my order's comments.
Friday, 1/27/12, came and went and the tracking number never updated from the tag's creation. I called 10 times in a row for multiple days, no answer. The voicemail recording says we are busy with the holiday season, well that was two months ago...and there is no reason for the inbox to be full and not accepting new messages. It is also unacceptable to not respond to emails in a timely manner. I had to send 3 emails over 5 days to get one response. The response was not acceptable either. It simply said "sorry, our system had a glitch, the LPK you ordered was actually not available. We will ship when it is available." That is it. No time frame, no acknowledgement of the fact that they made me leave my AR in parts and at home for the trip, no resolution or a real apology. Why was there a shipping tag created when they didn't have the parts to ship? Why would t they send an email or give me a call letting me know it would not be there by the date specified? All seems so simple and like common sense.
I asked them to send the other parts that are available and then over night the LPK so I can have it for the weekend. No response, again... I sent another follow up email directly asking for a timeline, compensation for my extra expedited shipping costs that were wasted and overnight shipping. I finally get a response days later saying, "We expect the parts in Friday, and will ship then." Fine, Friday it is. They could overnight the LPK and it will cost them $20, it will fit in a small envelop. But no, there was no acknowledgment of my request for overnighting the parts or sending the other parts out now that are available. I have requested confirmation the items shipped today and suffice it to say I have not heard a peep from them. I requested a refund to simply order from another source, knowing that I will receive the items at the same time if I order it now or wait for them to arrive from PSA. Again, not a peep.
This is the first time I have used PSA and it will also be the last time. I have ordered from Brownells, Optics Planet and Midway USA. All of these guys are awesome and have had amazing customer service. I received the items early! I told them I needed the items by a certain date and they gave me a guarantee that they would have it to me by then. Brownells is a much larger company and probably has access to an outside call center and more capital, but I guarantee it never takes a week for them to respond to an email...
Be warned, PSA has decent prices (still not the cheapest on all products, Brownells was actually cheaper on some) but their inventory statuses online are not accurate and they will not resond to your requests. Sometimes when a lot of people give sour reviews of a business online, it is because it is more likely that they only take the time and effort to do so when they have had a bad experience. Other times, it is because the company deserves that review...
I know this is a harsh review and if someone from PSA sees this please send me a message. I'd be happy to talk to you and my opinions of your company could be changed. I have a short term memory of bad customer service experiences, if a company remedies their issue and does right by the customers who are keeping them in business I will consider using them again. I hope this is the case, and if it is, you have my word I will post here again and update my thoughts of your company. Please reach out to me via email, phone or a message through this forum.
Order #: 100002387
In this instance, I'd be frustrated too. But it's a bit early for the mob to be breaking out the pitchforks and torches.
I have gotten good customer service from PSA. It can be very difficult, if not downright impossible to contact them by phone, but they responded very quickly to PMs I sent them on this site. Try PM'ing them.
I agree a company should take care of problems, but excoriating them at every turn will only turn them away. PSA has taken some big steps towards fixing their problems. On this site, we can choose to offer guidance as to what we expect or we can just pile on the criticism and the hate at every little thing until they are driven away.
So far, I like PSA. They treated me fairly and then some. I have every confidence if I contact them with a concern, they will address it in a polite and professional manner
Youngbp04, moral of the story, next time just order the LPK from G&R
Breadstick
02-03-12, 14:00
Oh, will say though...my last order was in Sept. I guess things were good then....heh.
Alot of this PSA unhappiness has been very recent that I've been seeing.
Breadstick
02-03-12, 14:03
In this instance, I'd be frustrated too. But it's a bit early for the mob to be breaking out the pitchforks and torches.
I have gotten good customer service from PSA. It can be very difficult, if not downright impossible to contact them by phone, but they responded very quickly to PMs I sent them on this site. Try PM'ing them.
I agree a company should take care of problems, but excoriating them at every turn will only turn them away. PSA has taken some big steps towards fixing their problems. On this site, we can choose to offer guidance as to what we expect or we can just pile on the criticism and the hate at every little thing until they are driven away.
So far, I like PSA. They treated me fairly and then some. I have every confidence if I contact them with a concern, they will address it in a polite and professional manner
But you're just a sample of one. It's the bad stuff they want to hear! Don't ya know?
lethal dose
02-03-12, 14:23
something i've discovered about south carolina... it may not get much snow... but it sure has it's fair share of flakes! sad, really. i, for the right price, would be more then happy to do their qc work. i'm fairly certain, they would have very few complaints. why? because i'm awesome.
hobotorium
02-03-12, 14:42
I picked up a PSA premium BCG last June since everyone else was sold out at the time. It's been great and I haven't noticed anything wrong with it. It really sucks for the OP that his experience has been this.
Scotter260
02-03-12, 14:50
Youngbp04, moral of the story, next time just order the LPK from G&R
When's the last time he's had them in stock?!?! :confused:
Youngbp04, moral of the story, next time just order the LPK from G&R
Newbie question, what / who is G&R I am assuming that is an abbreviation?
I have placed close to a dozen orders with PSA. The most notable experience I've had with them was when I ordered a stripped lower. I placed the order a few days before Christmas, their site clearly said lowers ordered between late Dec and early Jan (don't remember exact dates) would not ship until Jan 15; I had mine in my hands on Jan 5. I also had no problem getting them on the phone to work out the FFL details. Everything else I've ordered from them I've received within four days.
A few days ago, I received one of their lpk's, I assembled the lower and put 90 rounds through it today. So far it seems to be just fine. Given the price point relative to other retailers, however, I still remain weary of their bcg's/uppers/etc.
G&R Tactical, C4IGrant on this forum.
Newbie question, what / who is G&R I am assuming that is an abbreviation?
Newbie question, what / who is G&R I am assuming that is an abbreviation?
Www.grtactical.com
They are a sponsor and frequent posting and knowledgable member here. His SN is C4IGrant.
Sorry to hear about your experiene. I have placed a few dozen orders with them and assembled well over a dozen rifles using their parts and never had an issue.
Course maybe I'm just lucky like that because I've never in all my years had an issue with any parts of manufactuer.
The_War_Wagon
02-03-12, 15:36
I don't get these discussions. If you're talking about whether PSA/Spikes/whatever is 'as good as' brand X (BCM/DD/Colt/etc), then you've missed the point. Why screw around with Unknowns?!? We KNOW certain makers produce reliable products. Why would you purposely take a detour away from something know to be excellent?!?
I bought into the early GOOD reports... mea culpa... MEA CULPA!!! :fie:
As a longtime BCM kool-aid drinker, I am HEREBY taking the oath... that I will never, EVER, stray from the tap again! :thank_you2:
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/The_War_Wagon/BCM-AID.jpg
To OP: sorry about your woes.
It's important for a store/retailer to remember that all it takes is just a few, if not one, jipped customer to start loosing business, especially now with online communication forums like this one.
Words travels at light speed now; bad words at Warp 9!:dirol:
As far as my dealings with PSA, I've had great success, though most of my purchases have been ammo and smaller accessories and tools.
Let's hope PSA catches wind of this thread and adjusts fire.
Couple of guys on here recounted in other threads how PSA doesn't test fire their products--they shipped midlength guns with carbine length gas tubes installed. No way they would have worked.
Say what you will about my cheesey Bushmaster (1998 vintage), when I got it it had grunge in it from test-firing.
Any outfit that just bolts 'em together and ships 'em to the customer ain't for real.
When's the last time he's had them in stock?!?! :confused:
Last time I ordered :) oct I think
I am sold on BCM and my previous purchases will reflect that. However, since just before November I have placed a few orders from PSA which included one of their uppers. I received excellent customer service on all of my orders. As stated many times before, time will tell if their products measure up. Thus far I am very pleased with PSA products.
Couple of guys on here recounted in other threads how PSA doesn't test fire their products--they shipped midlength guns with carbine length gas tubes installed. No way they would have worked.
Say what you will about my cheesey Bushmaster (1998 vintage), when I got it it had grunge in it from test-firing.
Any outfit that just bolts 'em together and ships 'em to the customer ain't for real.
They test fire them or try to. One guy got a rifle shipped to him with a live round in it...:blink:
SomeOtherGuy
02-03-12, 15:51
It's probably obvious, but just to be clear, if PSA had simply replaced my defective BCG with a new one the first time, like they said they were going to back in December, I wouldn't have had a thing to say here. Even after their not-a-repair screwup, which was fairly insulting (the bolt on it looks worse than any other bolt I own, even though it purportedly has the lowest round count), if they had then made it right, I still probably wouldn't have said anything. But the looong process and the fact that a replacement was promised twice and never delivered, and that communications have ceased and I can't get them on the phone, is what prompted me to post here. Any manufacturer can occasionally let a defective item out the door. But you need to fix it when it happens, not screw around.
yep really...that happened.
3 uppers out of the batch of 3000. lets put things into contex here.
All three were resolved and PSA started to test fire every upper now since that happened.
Is not consistant form from them. It was a one time floof.
But I know nay sayers will fling that out of their sleeve any chance they get......
In my world (which completely shades my context) 3 completely non functional units shipping out is indicative of a few things:
Lack of competency of assembly personnel
Poor assembly instructions
Lack of visual inspection
Lack of function testing
The issue with the BCG tells me that at the very least they're not verifying critical dimensions on top of all of the above.
Some people get it right because they have a quality system in place because they make it thier business to get it right, others get it right by chance.
DeltaSierra
02-03-12, 16:04
I don't get these discussions. If you're talking about whether PSA/Spikes/whatever is 'as good as' brand X (BCM/DD/Colt/etc), then you've missed the point. Why screw around with Unknowns?!? We KNOW certain makers produce reliable products. Why would you purposely take a detour away from something know to be excellent?!?
This quote sums up my thoughts on this issue quite eloquently.
At least someone gets it....
...Any manufacturer can occasionally let a defective item out the door. But you need to fix it when it happens, not screw around.
I ordered a blemished BCM lower from Grant with a Magpul ASAP receiver plate and BCM M4 stock. He installed the receiver plate and properly staked it, but forgot to ship the stock with it. No matter what others say about him, he IS human, so shit happens. I wrote an email asking about the stock and he responded the very next morning with an apology and asking where to ship the stock so I don't have to go through my FFL. He has also answered all of my stupid newbie questions both in private emails and here at M4C.
THAT is customer service.
:)
More to the point, each of these smaller companies starts small and is doing a great job, then hits the expansion phase where they get discovered, inundated with orders, hit with backlogs of orders and snarls of their supply chain because of the volume, and consequently either quality, QC, or availability suffers - then they emerge from it better, but usually without the reputation that got them that original acclaim.
When they're in that stage, usually it's not worth it, but that is what I've had to discover myself.
Breadstick
02-03-12, 16:51
More to the point, each of these smaller companies starts small and is doing a great job, then hits the expansion phase where they get discovered, inundated with orders, hit with backlogs of orders and snarls of their supply chain because of the volume, and consequently either quality, QC, or availability suffers - then they emerge from it better, but usually without the reputation that got them that original acclaim.
When they're in that stage, usually it's not worth it, but that is what I've had to discover myself.
Yep...I think this is exactly the issue at hand.
This is why people should use BravoCompanyUSA.
THIS!
I would feel guilty if I got an upper from any other source.
This is why I laugh when people put PSA in the same tier as Colt, BCM, DD, etc. :fie:
FireLine308
02-03-12, 18:24
I got a out of spec upper from them, emailed them with a picture of the problem, included my order number. Never heard back from them by email but a week later I had a new upper show up at my door with a return shipping label for the out of spec one.
I've used PSA twice to build friends carbines and had good luck both times. I've got one to build for a relative this weekend. As long as I have good luck I'll put them together for others.
As for me all of my uppers/lowers/barrels have BCM, Centurion, or Noveske prominently displayed on them. As others have said go with a proven winner.
THIS!
I would feel guilty if I got an upper from any other source.
What about AAC?
SomeOtherGuy
02-03-12, 19:00
I've now been contacted by PM by PSA's rep here with the promise of a UPS call tag early next week and a new replacement BCG when they receive the defective one back. I have accepted, and will post an update here when it's resolved, or if too much time goes by without resolution.
Perhaps I should have tried a PM here first, but the email address for their rep is the same as the email address I've been using all along, so I had no way of knowing it would reach someone different or get more attention.
I hear what you're saying... but there's still no reason to shop anywhere beyond BravoCompany
I'm not so sure I care for their 15% restocking fee for unused, undamaged, even UN-opened items that you might wish to return....great company with a great product, but I think that's pretty petty...
juliomorris
02-03-12, 19:30
Except for a couple of missing roll pins I have had good luck with PSA I have built 2 fro my daughters in the last month and both have about 1000 rds fired with no failures and they both should get another 500-1000 this weekend. I originally used a BCM and a Spikes BCG but changed them out for PSA and kept the BCM for a backup.
You can get lemons from any manufacturer, I bought a NIB KImber and the ejector fell out the first time I broke it down now how in the hell can they forget to pin the ejector. I have returned more leupolds than I care to remember. If someone makes a lemon I usually buy it so far PSA and BCM haven't sold me any yet.
I have had excellent service from PSA... even when the "issue" was my mistake. My PSA upper is solid and I have not experienced any problems. I wouldn't hesitate to buy from them again.
You can get lemons from any manufacturer, I bought a NIB KImber and the ejector fell out the first time I broke it down now how in the hell can they forget to pin the ejector. I have returned more leupolds than I care to remember. If someone makes a lemon I usually buy it so far PSA and BCM haven't sold me any yet.
Yeah........ that's because it's a Kimber.
Kimber isn't really "top shelf", just overpriced.
juliomorris
02-03-12, 20:03
Yeah........ that's because it's a Kimber.
Kimber isn't really "top shelf", just overpriced.
This was a few years ago and your right they aren't the best but at the time they were considered one of the better manufacturers. But like I said i have also had issues with Leupold, Remington and even Colt anyone can have issues. I have returned 2 colts one Gold cup for feeding issues and 1 ar for accuracy (5MOA at 100 yards). Now I know Colt is the Holly Grail around here and I agree they are the best but my point is any manufacturer can have issues. Psa will have growing pains and if they try to grow to fast like they seem to be they will end up like BM. BCM could have ended up like BM but they had better leadership and have been able to maintain QC while they are growing. Unlike some around here I want to see PSA succeed because the more quality competion there is maybe in the end we will end up with better equipment and lower prices. I would also like to see the others improve their QC and products, like BM, oly, and DPMS. I would love to more competition well except maybe oly I have worked on to many of their crappy rifles(for others you could give me one)
Hope PSA gets it all worked out for the OP.
At this time the only thing I would get from PSA are their CHF barrels, for people like me who build their own it's hard to go wrong with a FN manufactured barrel...
DeltaSierra
02-03-12, 20:33
At this time the only thing I would get from PSA are their CHF barrels, for people like me who build their own it's hard to go wrong with a FN manufactured barrel...
FN manufactured barrels... FN manufactured barrels... FN manufactured barrels...
The fact that FN will make the barrels to whatever specs the purchasing company asks doesn't seem to matter to the PSA fans.
FN makes the product however the purchaser wants it, so it truly is deceitful at best, to claim that whatever PSA uses is an FN barrel. Technically, the barrel may be manufactured by FN, but it is not necessarily manufactured to FNs specifications, and it should not be advertised as if it is.
polymorpheous
02-03-12, 20:36
I've been trying to get an answer out of them about their buffer tubes and buffers.
So far no word.
FN manufactured barrels... FN manufactured barrels... FN manufactured barrels...
The fact that FN will make the barrels to whatever specs the purchasing company asks doesn't seem to matter to the PSA fans.
FN makes the product however the purchaser wants it, so it truly is deceitful at best, to claim that whatever PSA uses is an FN barrel. Technically, the barrel may be manufactured by FN, but it is not necessarily manufactured to FNs specifications, and it should not be advertised as if it is.
LOL, I am far from a PSA fan.
Do you really think an ISO certified manufacturer like FN will put out junk barrels depending on what roll mark they put on it?
I completely understand about FN making barrels to their customers specs but all those barrels will be more alike than different. Hell, all you have to do is read the barrel specs and descriptions on each of the different companies sites to see that this is true. Whether or not any of the differences are worth the extra money is up for the end user to decide.
I am not here to argue Noveske/Centurion/PSA/Spikes but IMHO all FN manufactured CHF barrels will be good to go regardless of whoes name is on them.
Lastly, if FN actually manufactures the barrel then it's not deceitful to say so. I've also never seen anyone claim their CHF barrels are made to FN's specs only that they are made by FN. Regardless of the actual specs used you can count on the fact that FN knows how to make a quality barrel.
juliomorris
02-03-12, 21:16
FN manufactured barrels... FN manufactured barrels... FN manufactured barrels...
The fact that FN will make the barrels to whatever specs the purchasing company asks doesn't seem to matter to the PSA fans.
FN makes the product however the purchaser wants it, so it truly is deceitful at best, to claim that whatever PSA uses is an FN barrel. Technically, the barrel may be manufactured by FN, but it is not necessarily manufactured to FNs specifications, and it should not be advertised as if it is.
Colt..... colt.... Colt....
Come on I know you guys all love colt hell so do I but get off this anybody but Colt, DD, and BCM. If we hadn't given BCM a chance where would they be? Give them a chance they will either succeed or fail just give them a chance. Do you really think FN or shillen would sell lesser quality barrels to another manufacturer when their name and rep will be on the line. SHillen sells barrels to midway do you think they are going to of lesser quality? No they are not the chamber may not be to the specs of a custom but they are to Shillen specs. FN wouldn't leave their name on the barrel if it wasn't to their specs.
Now Op I hope they take care of you they did me when I was shorted some pins, they sent extra and on a friends order they sent him 2 magpul mags because they left out a BCG.
I was actually in PSA today, although it was not where I was when what I posted in the handgun forum earlier happened. I have bought 3 pistols from them at extremely competitive prices, and their ammo is absolutely the cheapest around here. I've put together one of their lowers with a DD parts kit and have 2 more stripped ones in the safe.
That said, whenever I have been close to getting an upper from them, I have hesitated. Considering that I have to pay sales tax when I buy from them, along with the fact that their prices have been quietly creeping up, I can easily justify the price difference for a BCM or DD upper. I also dislike their rail options, but that's beside the point.
The store seems to have different employees, aside from a few of the same guys, almost every time I go in. This leads me to believe it is difficult for them to fInd and keep good help. They are still a young company. I attribute most of these stories to growing pains and am rooting for them as a local business. They have basically cornered the tactical market for the whole state.
FN barrels are cold hammer forged using a mandrel with the rifling and chamber profile around which the barrel steel is hammered into shape. The outside profile of the barrel is determined by the hammer dies used. Forging dies are very expensive to make. I am sure a company isn't going to pay FN to tool up dies to make a lesser quality barrel when it will be cheaper to simply order what FN already makes.
It is possible that FN is offering fire sale prices on barrels that have some kind of blemish or are enough out of tolerance that they are rejected by the government. In that case, they may not be quite as accurate but won't be any less safe or less durable
polymorpheous
02-03-12, 22:08
If we hadn't given BCM a chance where would they be?
BCM sent out rifles for T&E to companies like EAG.
"We" didn't give BCM a chance.
BCM went out of their way to prove that their stuff is quality.
Has any other manufacture had a post get 60+ responses in less than 12 hours, most with defective/QC or customer service gripes? I don't know, I am probably a little bitter because my shipment was supposed to be shipped again today and did not go out and did not get a response again to any of the three emails I sent in the last 48 hours... That just doesn't seem right, growing pains or not
mallowpufft
02-03-12, 22:11
OP, I hope they finally resolve your problem for you.
I emailed PSA a couple times this December to ask a couple questions. Took 3-5 days to get a response but they seemed like nice folk so I ordered a lower, LPK, and upper from them. Got all the parts in around the 20th. Got it built and noticed the fore end was loose. Checked it and sure enough two of the tabs that hold the MOE handguard were broken. Called and they said to send the handguard back and they'd send me another. I borrowed a set of handguards from a buddy and went out this afternoon. I'll be honest, I was skeptical after some things I read here but I figured that a lower is a lower as long as it is in spec and after everything I've read around this place I felt comfortable taking things apart and checking them and to my inexperienced eyes it checked out.
Put a box of XM193 through it, a box of PMC through it. No malfunctioning. Figured what the heck, let's try some wolf. Put two boxes of that through and the last box was as fast as I could pull the trigger and keep the sights on paper.
Not a single malfunction. I'm not going to be super comfortable till I hit 500 w/o an issue but it's a start.
I'd love a BCM, Colt, any tier 1 but I've got three young kids and a work for a not for profit. This is rifle is the best I can afford and is primarily going to be for coyotes and the like. Where else could I have gotten a complete AR for under 600? If it doesn't work out I can always sell it to some Bubba at the next gun show for a small profit.:rolleyes:
Has any other manufacture had a post get 60+ responses in less than 12 hours, most with defective/QC or customer service gripes? I don't know, I am probably a little bitter because my shipment was supposed to be shipped again today and did not go out and did not get a response again to any of the three emails I sent in the last 48 hours... That just doesn't seem right, growing pains or not
Don't worry, I'm sure it will ship soon. My package came quick, received it yesterday....Without some of the stuff I ordered. :suicide:
I have only purchased Ammo from PSA and have never had a problem. It sucks that the OP had a problem with a BCG. All this bad mouthing will probably cost them a few hundred bucks in sales..:haha:
Do you really think an ISO certified manufacturer like FN will put out junk barrels depending on what roll mark they put on it?
Unquestionably, yes. Absolutely. Quality is adherence to requirements. The customer makes the requirements, the vendor's job is to fulfill them. No more, no less.
Megalomaniac
02-04-12, 00:25
I had a few issues with PSA, it took 3 tries for PSA to get me the correct upper as ordered in a ready to ship condition.
I place an order for a PSA 16" LW Midlength w/ MI SS15 and YHM Phantom 5M1, upper shipped decently promptly. Upon arrival I opened the box and found, three things wrong:
1. My muzzle break was not in the box.
2. The spare rail sections and mounting hardware were not included.
3. There was a live round in the chamber.
After getting in touch with them they apologized and informed me that there was a mix-up and that the upper they shipped me was not intended to be shipped yet. They informed me that they would upgrade me to a Hammer Forged barrel and stated that they would e-mail me/include with the upper a RMA label for the first upper.
Second upper arrives, I open the box to find several more things wrong:
1. They mounted a SS12 rail instead of the SS15.
2. Still no spare rail sections.
3. No RMA label for the first upper.
I contacted them again, they claimed that when I called previously that I was informed that they were out of stock on the SS15 rails and that I okay'd the SS12, which I did not.
They also had no explanation as to why the RMA label wasn't included or sent via e-mail.
The third upper they shipped came correctly, with the proper rail, included rail sections, and the RMA labels for the first and second upper.
I don't think I will be using PSA again anytime soon.
OP sorry this happened to you. It really shouldn't have. I'm thinking lazy employee? Hoping anyways. I've always had great CS with psa. As for the email address comment, lots of places have the one email that goes to several different people for cs. See Microsoft website for instance.
I agree with whoever mentioned about growing pains. Its hard with rapid growth to fix every single problem promptly or ship every item immediately. I hope they get things fixed for open very shortly and I do think they will. Keep in mind every time something negative occurs you hear about it. The thousands and thousands of people who are satisfied don't always say so. Is their qc as good as bcm? Maybe not quite? I don't know. But a couple initial bugs can be easily overcome. As for people blabbing about sticking with known brands and not giving the new guy a chance... ignorance. I happily own 2 bcm and I still say try new things. Grant started a new business and look at it now. Phenomenal and i love his lpk. I am perfectly happy ordering everything from g&r but will also order from PsA without hesitation if I want to save a few bucks on ammo or a spare part. I'm still considering a psa complete rifle for plinking to just beat the shit out of without a care. I haven't ordered ar parts for a while but when I do its from grant and psa.
I contacted them again, they claimed that when I called previously that I was informed that they were out of stock on the SS15 rails and that I okay'd the SS12, which I did not.
Yea they pulled similar stuff with me.
They even went as far as to tell me that my customer service rep "lied"...when I had received information from him about a concern....LOL!!
Maybe growing pains...maybe not...I can't afford to risk business with them again until they clear their malfunctions.
3. There was a live round in the chamber.
HOLY!!!! That would wake ya up! Really no excuse for that.
Do you really think an ISO certified manufacturer like FN will put out junk barrels depending on what roll mark they put on it?
ISO has nothing to do with this. Parts are made to the specs the client is willing to pay for.
Nightvisionary
02-04-12, 04:17
I don't get these discussions. If you're talking about whether PSA/Spikes/whatever is 'as good as' brand X (BCM/DD/Colt/etc), then you've missed the point. Why screw around with Unknowns?!? We KNOW certain makers produce reliable products. Why would you purposely take a detour away from something know to be excellent?!?
If there were a shortage, I'd understand. If the price difference was measured by four figures, I'd understand.
Could you please articulate your reasons for lumping Spikes in with this? According to THE LIST https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0AqmgMm61Ok7WdExwaG16OENzOEZ1akp2a3Y2NjMxTEE&single=true&gid=2&output=html Spikes is right on par in regards to materials and testing specs when compared to many highly regarded carbines.
I can't recall having ever read anywhere on this forum of a first person report concerning a failure or performance issue with a Spikes Tactical carbine.
On the other hand I have read about a few problems with some other highly regarded manufacturers. Could you please share your actual first hand report or post a link to a first hand report. Facts if you got em because Im always interested in learning something new. Thanks.
OP, ......
.....I'd love a BCM, Colt, any tier 1 but I've got three young kids and a work for a not for profit. This is rifle is the best I can afford and is primarily going to be for coyotes and the like. Where else could I have gotten a complete AR for under 600? If it doesn't work out I can always sell it to some Bubba at the next gun show for a small profit.:rolleyes:
S+W Sport
~$600
Lifetime warranty
ISO has nothing to do with this. Parts are made to the specs the client is willing to pay for.
Yes, and it has not been proven that the other companies specs equal a lesser quality barrel. If anything, it's been proven that these barrels are all more similar than different.
I worked for an ISO certified company that was OEM for a line of products that several companies sold. Yes, we built them to the customers specs but certain quality measures were always followed so we didn't turn out junk.
A customers specs were carefully looked at and if any of the changes they wanted would affect reliability or accuracy of our product the customer was advised and given other options that would not have the same effect.
In all cases the product was basically 95% identical even when sold at different price points. It takes consistency to make a quality product and we took care to deviate as little as possible from the manufacturing process to maintain that quality. Our customers knew this and that is why they did business with us.
If these barrels were made by different companies and people were trying to say "they were as good as" then I would agree but that's not the case here. BTW, I'm not claiming that these barrels are the exact same only that they are good quality barrels because FN made them all.
You and John have the means to confirm the differences of these barrels. You guys should check this out and see for yourselves and tell us what you find...;)
mallowpufft
02-04-12, 06:48
S+W Sport
~$600
Lifetime warranty
Cheapest I've seen one of those around here is $715.. and I wanted a 20" for the full powder burn so I can reach out and say hello to the local 'yotes with the heavier rounds.
I've previously ordered alot of ammo from them and never had a problem. Actually, their service was real good, good pricing and fast shipping.
It has been over a year since I've ordered anything from them since they were required to collect sales tax on in state customer purchases. That was a real disappointment.
Sorry to hear about these problems. It does sound like a combination or growing pains and/or less that stellar employees.
Even though I don't support them any longer....I wish them the best and hope that they get their issues straighten out.
Surprised PSA hasn't jumped in this thread.
I looked back through my emails from before Thanksgiving to just before CHRISTmas. There were some questions I had about adding to or changing my orders and each time I received a prompt reply. All my items arrived in a timely manner. Especially during the holiday season.
Ive ordered ammo from PSA no problems, I have a buddy that has ordered stuff and the forgot to send half of it one time and the other time just straight forgot to send his stuff.
Could you please articulate your reasons for lumping Spikes in with this? According to THE LIST https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0AqmgMm61Ok7WdExwaG16OENzOEZ1akp2a3Y2NjMxTEE&single=true&gid=2&output=html Spikes is right on par in regards to materials and testing specs when compared to many highly regarded carbines.
I can't recall having ever read anywhere on this forum of a first person report concerning a failure or performance issue with a Spikes Tactical carbine.
On the other hand I have read about a few problems with some other highly regarded manufacturers. Could you please share your actual first hand report or post a link to a first hand report. Facts if you got em because Im always interested in learning something new. Thanks.
your sig makes it apparent you favor spike, he obviously doesn't. PM him about if you want argue.
I ordered a blemished BCM lower from Grant with a Magpul ASAP receiver plate and BCM M4 stock. He installed the receiver plate and properly staked it, but forgot to ship the stock with it. No matter what others say about him, he IS human, so shit happens. I wrote an email asking about the stock and he responded the very next morning with an apology and asking where to ship the stock so I don't have to go through my FFL. He has also answered all of my stupid newbie questions both in private emails and here at M4C.
THAT is customer service.
:)
I have purchased several items from Grant, to include a Colt BCG and complete Colt SP6920 lower. Shipping was fast and both items arrived in pristine condition. I am very satisfied customer!
StopPolloition
02-04-12, 17:41
That's surprising to hear about people's trouble with PSA customer service. I have ordered a couple things from them before and they have always been quick and responsive. When I ordered a barrel before their Black Friday sale at full price only to see the next day that a new lower price came out, I e-mailed them to see if I could get store credit for the difference and they immediately retroactively price matched it. The barrel was very nice, as were the other parts I ordered from them in the past.
This is why people should use BravoCompanyUSA.
I've seen guys with issues where they just replace the part without even requesting the original to be returned.
Couldnt have said it better myself.
There is often a REASON cheap stuff is cheap
FN manufactured barrels... FN manufactured barrels... FN manufactured barrels...
The fact that FN will make the barrels to whatever specs the purchasing company asks doesn't seem to matter to the PSA fans.
FN makes the product however the purchaser wants it, so it truly is deceitful at best, to claim that whatever PSA uses is an FN barrel. Technically, the barrel may be manufactured by FN, but it is not necessarily manufactured to FNs specifications, and it should not be advertised as if it is.
Why would a manufacturer like FN do that? Put sub-par shit on the market and stamp their name on it? I can see if they were contract manufacturing bbls to brand as 'PSA' but that's not the case here.
ISO has nothing to do with this. Parts are made to the specs the client is willing to pay for.
There was a thread here not too long ago I believe you both posted in..AlphaSierra you may have started it? Barrels were of course brought up. In keeping with M4Cs mantra, can either of you, or anyone offer some data on why they may not be as good? Genuinely curious, and will happily read whatever sources you can cite. I have some PSA parts/uppers as well as DD, Colt, and BCM (before the 'fanboy' thought crosses your mind :) )
When I look at the bbls on paper I see a spec material, twist rate, finish, chamber, etc. The barrels have been eluded to as inferior enough times that it's about time someone call out for what reasons.
PSA just made it to my "No Purchase" list. No response to emails. Will not answer the phone. I even spoke to an "owner" who said he'd call me back about my order status in a couple of minutes. Why deal with poor their customer service when you can shop with companies like G&R and SKD who actually respond and try to help you out, if not fix the issue immediately.
What about AAC?
Well... if it was the 16" 300 BLK, Rogue Hunter for example... then I would spread the love, as Noveske is clearly also doing the Lords work on things AR related.
sinlessorrow
02-04-12, 23:15
i got a upper from PSA for the FN barrel and its been 100%, i also purchase ammo alot from them.
on the note of barrels yall should look at this thread
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/559831_FN_manufactured_CHF_barrel_blanks_INTERESTING_UPDATE_PIC___CODE_BROKEN__YOU_DECIDE.html
ISO has nothing to do with this. Parts are made to the specs the client is willing to pay for.
Correct. Most ISO 'advertised' certs just indicate the company's record keeping will be sufficient for a transparent OEM-supplier relationship.
But there are a million ISO certifications for various BS. 9001 addresses quality. Maintaining that cert is all about record keeping and ensuring your process is accurately reflected in your data and quality management system.
Correct. Most ISO 'advertised' certs just indicate the company's record keeping will be sufficient for a transparent OEM-supplier relationship.
But there are a million ISO certifications for various BS. 9001 addresses quality. Maintaining that cert is all about record keeping and ensuring your process is accurately reflected in your data and quality management system.
I am a professional ISO and FDA consultant and I'll be the first one to state that ISO certification means absolutly nothing as compared to government regulations and specific military requirements. Certified, audited, and accepted, mil-spec materials is the high card. ISO is an advertising gimmick and shouldn't influence anyone's opinion of an AR barrel.
:big_boss:
When I look at the bbls on paper I see a spec material, twist rate, finish, chamber, etc. The barrels have been eluded to as inferior enough times that it's about time someone call out for what reasons.
I don't think that's been the case. The point people have been trying to make is that just because FN makes barrels for them doesn't automatically mean that they're made to TDP specs. Of course this doesn't make it automatically untrue either. Unless Palmetto or FN coughs up a P.O. and doc pack we may never really know...
Nightvisionary
02-05-12, 00:47
i got a upper from PSA for the FN barrel and its been 100%, i also purchase ammo alot from them.
on the note of barrels yall should look at this thread
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/559831_FN_manufactured_CHF_barrel_blanks_INTERESTING_UPDATE_PIC___CODE_BROKEN__YOU_DECIDE.html
Wow just WOW!!:eek: I am actually pleased to hear that as it confirms what I have learned through my own research and experience.
More to the point, each of these smaller companies starts small and is doing a great job, then hits the expansion phase where they get discovered, inundated with orders, hit with backlogs of orders and snarls of their supply chain because of the volume, and consequently either quality, QC, or availability suffers - then they emerge from it better, but usually without the reputation that got them that original acclaim.
When they're in that stage, usually it's not worth it, but that is what I've had to discover myself.
I suspect that this is the likely explanation.
A business that is going for a foothold, pricing that is so low that they are probably barely covering operating expenses to get more business, then hit that seasonal time of year where everyone and their neighbor blow their savings for a gift to someone or themselves. Suddenly your staff of 10 can not handle the workload of 50. You go on a quick hiring spree, people that were doing specific jobs are now in charge of a crew of 5+ to do the same job...whammo issues start appearing because there was the "Sink or Swim" training.
Incorrect gas tubes - PSA responded promptly, fired the person responsible, changed their procedures, took care of those affected and went on with life.
Poor QC in the armory - probably some guy that got hired because he worked for another gunsmith, or "I've been working on guns for the last 15 years, I know what I'm doin'."
Pay scale is probably crap - ergo you can't keep the quality people long. I worked for a diesel shop that had zero warranty returns, and a ton of repeat business. We repaired vehicles that the auto dealerships, and a local supposedly top notch performance shop (don't buy purple) could not fix, or screwed up. I left after 2.5 years because there were kids that graduated with me from the local tech school that were making more doing oil changes at a fleet shop, and I am doing master level engine repairs. First time in my life I changed jobs and increased my pay $4 an hour into a position that had very little to do with my specialty (my employer knew this when they hired me). I keep in touch with them, they still do top notch work, and still have a high turnover. The good ones only stay for a couple of years and move on, the bad ones get tossed in short order.
I too had horrible customer service from them, as I posted in another thread. Ordered an auto BCG, stripped lower, LPK and grip. Took two days for them to get back to me to verify that they received my FFL's fax, and then it was "If they sent it, we have it". UPS shipping tag was created then they sat on it for IIRC 2 weeks. The order got split into two shipments (I requested that the entire order be shipped to my FFL), and it was not until I received my LPK & BCG did another shipping tag get created for my lower, and again, they sat on it for over a week. Only one reply to my emails about the order status. OK fine, holiday season.
The quality of my parts received to my untrained eye appear to be very good BCG has the MP stamp, 500 rounds down the pipe using Gunzilla wiped dry everywhere but the rails and the piston (light film) and there is little to no wear on the parts. Only 2 fail to feeds using reman LC ammo, that may have been the mag. Bolt is still smooth in function, trigger is still crisp, the Vltor MUR upper is nice and snug on the lower.
Me, not happy with the CS, but the components are great, and when/if I build another rifle, I will do business with them again.
This is one forum, with a few bad experiences, out of the entire nation. Hopefully they will get their shit together, address the problem areas, and these issues will be few and far between.
I don't think that's been the case. The point people have been trying to make is that just because FN makes barrels for them doesn't automatically mean that they're made to TDP specs. Of course this doesn't make it automatically untrue either. Unless Palmetto or FN coughs up a P.O. and doc pack we may never really know...
Very true - I've always said in these damn threads that full disclosure would be their best friend right now as speculation is rampant.
I suspect that this is the likely explanation.
A business that is going for a foothold, pricing that is so low that they are probably barely covering operating expenses to get more business, then hit that seasonal time of year where everyone and their neighbor blow their savings for a gift to someone or themselves. Suddenly your staff of 10 can not handle the workload of 50. You go on a quick hiring spree, people that were doing specific jobs are now in charge of a crew of 5+ to do the same job...whammo issues start appearing because there was the "Sink or Swim" training.
Incorrect gas tubes - PSA responded promptly, fired the person responsible, changed their procedures, took care of those affected and went on with life.
Poor QC in the armory - probably some guy that got hired because he worked for another gunsmith, or "I've been working on guns for the last 15 years, I know what I'm doin'."
Pay scale is probably crap - ergo you can't keep the quality people long. I worked for a diesel shop that had zero warranty returns, and a ton of repeat business. We repaired vehicles that the auto dealerships, and a local supposedly top notch performance shop (don't buy purple) could not fix, or screwed up. I left after 2.5 years because there were kids that graduated with me from the local tech school that were making more doing oil changes at a fleet shop, and I am doing master level engine repairs. First time in my life I changed jobs and increased my pay $4 an hour into a position that had very little to do with my specialty (my employer knew this when they hired me). I keep in touch with them, they still do top notch work, and still have a high turnover. The good ones only stay for a couple of years and move on, the bad ones get tossed in short order.
I too had horrible customer service from them, as I posted in another thread. Ordered an auto BCG, stripped lower, LPK and grip. Took two days for them to get back to me to verify that they received my FFL's fax, and then it was "If they sent it, we have it". UPS shipping tag was created then they sat on it for IIRC 2 weeks. The order got split into two shipments (I requested that the entire order be shipped to my FFL), and it was not until I received my LPK & BCG did another shipping tag get created for my lower, and again, they sat on it for over a week. Only one reply to my emails about the order status. OK fine, holiday season.
The quality of my parts received to my untrained eye appear to be very good BCG has the MP stamp, 500 rounds down the pipe using Gunzilla wiped dry everywhere but the rails and the piston (light film) and there is little to no wear on the parts. Only 2 fail to feeds using reman LC ammo, that may have been the mag. Bolt is still smooth in function, trigger is still crisp, the Vltor MUR upper is nice and snug on the lower.
Me, not happy with the CS, but the components are great, and when/if I build another rifle, I will do business with them again.
This is one forum, with a few bad experiences, out of the entire nation. Hopefully they will get their shit together, address the problem areas, and these issues will be few and far between.
A very logical point of view, of which I agree.
I don't get an argument about pay scale as being an excuse, when the other manufacturers likely have similar pay scales, but I admit I don't know much about the industry. In my industry, we all have the same pay scale, but some places have cultures of quality product and service, some don't.
SpankMonkey
02-05-12, 10:34
Friend of mine picked up a complete lower from them. The mag well is not beveled and mags fit tight.
Buy cheap cry twice. Buy quality cry once.
I tried to tell him but he would not listen. :rolleyes:
GeorgiaBoy
02-05-12, 10:43
Though I have only ordered from PSA maybe 4 or 5 times, and all was ammo, I have nothing to complain about. Orders were correct, and they always had them shipped out in two days or less. I probably wouldn't buy their weapon components for SERIOUS use, but I would buy them any day of the week over a DPMS or bushmaster.
But let's be honest here. The main reason PSA is given so much mixed criticism is both their low prices and the few QC slip ups that happened not to long ago. They are a new and emerging company trying to play with the big boys, so of course they're not given a fair trial in the public market. They seemed to have fixed their problems, and are turning out a fairly good product. Is their CS the best? Maybe not. But then again, maybe they don't have the manpower to conform to every need of the impatient customer who didn't get a order confirmation the next morning so has to call to check on its status.
Companies can't fill orders with the phones ringing constantly and the email inbox being blown up.
I agree, it has been my experience as well, that they have done a very poor job of planning their operations and staffing to meet the needs of their marketing.
sinlessorrow
02-05-12, 13:13
I agree, it has been my experience as well, that they have done a very poor job of planning their operations and staffing to meet the needs of their marketing.
I agree, its mostly growing pains.
My upper i have is put together perfectly and everything is in spec so i know itll last. Ive also purchased a ton of ammo from them and always had good experiences.
Breadstick
02-05-12, 15:18
But then again, maybe they don't have the manpower to conform to every need of the impatient customer who didn't get a order confirmation the next morning so has to call to check on its status.
Companies can't fill orders with the phones ringing constantly and the email inbox being blown up.
90% of the bitching I've witnessed. Or don't understand that the shipping label is made before the item is shipped..... it states it takes 7-15 business days to ship....please allow more time for holidays specials....
Ordered my upper....next morning got a shipping label, was charged out of my account.....no tracking #.....days later still no tracking # WTF!......these Mother Fu.....wait....
"OH snap, it's only been 4 BUSINESS days (website says 7). They must make a shipping label when the order is prosessed (hence debtit card charged)....did I email three times in two days? did I call six times and hour? EXPECTING something NO! I was patient and new it would get here, after thinking things out of how they do work shipping......
But that's not how most people think anymore....INSTANT gratification damnit!;)
B
Instant gratification is a huge problem in our country. I don't discount instances of lack luster customer service but some people do need to have a little more patience. I am not saying the OP is one of them.
90% of the bitching I've witnessed. Or don't understand that the shipping label is made before the item is shipped..... it states it takes 7-15 business days to ship....please allow more time for holidays specials....
Ordered my upper....next morning got a shipping label, was charged out of my account.....no tracking #.....days later still no tracking # WTF!......these Mother Fu.....wait....
"OH snap, it's only been 4 BUSINESS days (website says 7). They must make a shipping label when the order is prosessed (hence debtit card charged)....did I email three times in two days? did I call six times and hour? EXPECTING something NO! I was patient and new it would get here, after thinking things out of how they do work shipping......
But that's not how most people think anymore....INSTANT gratification damnit!;)
B
That is one thing if you didn't think you were supposed to receive the items on a certain date and they didn't confirmed it would definitely get there by that date, and you didn't paid for the shipping to get it there on that date... But I did. I feel my calls and emails are warranted given the situation. And the lack of response, whether it is a customer wanting instant gratification or not, is unacceptable. You all have all acknowledge they are a start up in a competitive industry, lack luster CS and shotty QC is not a way to gain a loyal following, with or without growing pains.
Do I want things quickly and how I ordered them? Yes, but I don't think that is unreasonable, I am the customer paying for their product and service. They should be able to provide that, the other companies don't seem to have the severity and frequency of issues PSA has.
I am a professional ISO and FDA consultant and I'll be the first one to state that ISO certification means absolutly nothing as compared to government regulations and specific military requirements. Certified, audited, and accepted, mil-spec materials is the high card. ISO is an advertising gimmick and shouldn't influence anyone's opinion of an AR barrel.
:big_boss:
Agree. It's mostly something a supplier puts on a flag outside of their facility so they can waive it around to let OEM's know they're not a **** up and have standardized record keeping. ISO certs can be bought and usually bites the OEM in the ass if they don't have effective site quality control. I wish I was the ass hat that invented ISO as I'd be rich and laughing my way to the bank. I don't know anything about federal contracts / specifications as I work in the free market economy.
Your not going to get...: good, fast, cheap, and lightspeed customer service.
Customer service, man hrs, Is often the most expensive portion of a biz model decision. If the price is low & profit margin is $25, don't expect mach speed resolution to your queries.
Manage your own expectations. If it sounds too good to be true...
sinlessorrow
02-05-12, 17:25
Your not going to get...: good, fast, cheap, and lightspeed customer service.
Customer service, man hrs, Is often the most expensive portion of a biz model decision. If the price is low & profit margin is $25, don't expect mach speed resolution to your queries.
Manage your own expectations. If it sounds too good to be true...
Agreed PSA offers good and cheap, and i dot mind waiting a month to get a rifle or upper
Your not going to get...: good, fast, cheap, and lightspeed customer service.
Customer service, man hrs, Is often the most expensive portion of a biz model decision. If the price is low & profit margin is $25, don't expect mach speed resolution to your queries.
Manage your own expectations. If it sounds too good to be true...
I mean they are cheap but they aren't exponentially cheaper. And on some items they are more expensive.
But overall I 100% agree with you.
Lesson learned though. I do like to give the small guys a chance and do business with them but I will choose another start up from now on, probably G&R :)
I don't know if this is the same PSA that I used to see at the Gun Shows in North Carolina, but if it is, they are not a new business. All the PSA branded parts may be new, but operating as a business, they are seasoned. Up until recently, I have only heard good things about PSA. Hopefully, the issues they are facing now are just temporary.
Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk
I used to like them, but recent experiences have just been souring. From finding my middy upper from them comes with a round handguard cap to listening to their people talk about how great some random DPMS rifle is while in their store, and one of their employees having a personal rifle on display that isn't anything special (basic magpul'd rifle with an aimpoint) which isn't for sale but is for sale for the right price.
I suppose that's only the storefront I cant stand. If the people I find in the storefront are any indication though, I wouldn't be surprised by bad customer service.
sinlessorrow
02-05-12, 18:34
I used to like them, but recent experiences have just been souring. From finding my middy upper from them comes with a round handguard cap to listening to their people talk about how great some random DPMS rifle is while in their store, and one of their employees having a personal rifle on display that isn't anything special (basic magpul'd rifle with an aimpoint) which isn't for sale but is for sale for the right price.
I suppose that's only the storefront I cant stand. If the people I find in the storefront are any indication though, I wouldn't be surprised by bad customer service.
What handguard caps are middies supposed to have?
Agree. It's mostly something a supplier puts on a flag outside of their facility so they can waive it around to let OEM's know they're not a **** up and have standardized record keeping. ISO certs can be bought and usually bites the OEM in the ass if they don't have effective site quality control. I wish I was the ass hat that invented ISO as I'd be rich and laughing my way to the bank. I don't know anything about federal contracts / specifications as I work in the free market economy.
The difference betweem ISO and the FEDS is: A rare ISO failure will require some extra work and maybe a lost customer or two. A government CFR or mil-spec failure can padlock the doors to the supplier's business and possibly send someone to prison. ISO is a perpetual money scam. Uncle Sam plays for keeps.
:big_boss:
i think PSA is having growing pains. I had a heckuva time getting any real answers from them concerning the lowers I ordered. I finally got the answer from their rep on another EBR forum. :rolleyes:
All in all, it only took a couple of weeks to get them and they were fine. But it pisses me off when I get the runaround. I had the same sort of experience with DS Arms.
As for the quality, i have be satisfied though I admit I am mostly a weekend range warrior.
What handguard caps are middies supposed to have?
=======================================
The Special Force's Mil-Spec TDP requires Middies to have a triangular one...
;)
.
And still nothing changes. When guys were praising PSA, I and many others said time will tell. After a sample of one or two bad experiences posted on the internet, the answer is still the same; time will tell.
PSA is not the new BCM or DD and they're rifles aren't horrible either. There's not enough of them out there to make any sort of informed decision. Nothing has changed. As said months ago, we'll know in a few years.
Positive Displacement
02-06-12, 08:15
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: firstname lastname
Sent: Mon 1/23/12 12:54 PM
<snip>
I have been on the fence about PSA to say the least, I have inquired and also asked around extensively! Everything looks legit, however; I just cannot come to terms with them for my build. I go back and forth between them and BCM and I keep coming back to BCM, specifically the RECCE's. I want a badass build/rifle and I feel the only way to achieve this is with BCM.
I emailed them and asked if they could disclose some of their information, upper and lower receivers are CNC machined in house, when it came to barrels though they got really quiet, to each their own.
They have insanely good deals, but the more research I do the less thrilled I am.
Great Post:thank_you2:
Very true - I've always said in these damn threads that full disclosure would be their best friend right now as speculation is rampant.
Yes.
And, like I said before, I'm really surprised that PSA hasn't jumped in on this thread.
I have been on the fence about PSA to say the least, I have inquired and also asked around extensively! Everything looks legit, however; I just cannot come to terms with them for my build. I go back and forth between them and BCM and I keep coming back to BCM, specifically the RECCE's. I want a badass build/rifle and I feel the only way to achieve this is with BCM.
I emailed them and asked if they could disclose some of their information, upper and lower receivers are CNC machined in house, when it came to barrels though they got really quiet, to each their own.
They have insanely good deals, but the more research I do the less thrilled I am.
Great Post:thank_you2:
IMO, if you're questioning the quality / business ethics of a company then it's a no-go. It's alot of money; spend it right.
IMO, if you're questioning the quality / business ethics of a company then it's a no-go. It's alot of money; spend it right.
And that is the crux of this whole discussion... the reality is, the ONLY reason PSA is selling so much product is the price! So if that is one's primary concern, then they can deal with the results of that decision. For me, the fact that I intend to have what I buy for many many years, and cases and cases of ammo, the few hundred bucks difference to get a Colt, BCM, Noveske, is well worth it, and over time averages out to very little. Everyone's mileage may vary however.
That's my way of thinking. PSA or might work out for some people but not for me. I want to be [I]confident that I'll have my rifle basically the rest of my life.
the reality is, the ONLY reason PSA is selling so much product is the price!
They just raised their prices too.
Shame, I was hoping for good things.
I hope they are just growing pains, but 1st thing they need to do is get their customer service FIXED.
Instant gratification is a huge problem in our country. I don't discount instances of lack luster customer service but some people do need to have a little more patience. I am not saying the OP is one of them.
That's a primary reason, if not THE primary reason, why we insist that a reasonable amount of time and effort be invested before members attempt a public effort at redress of grievances.
Most 1st World folks have a skewed sense of how fast a lot of things actually happen, just because some things are capable of happening very quickly. Capability isn't the same as common practice, and is usually based upon a great many factors, but marketing blurs that aspect, even if we weren't choked with people who are educated to standardized tests instead of educated to a standard.
A recent example we had was somebody insisting that a lack of phone/email response within 48hrs was completely unacceptable....despite the fact that SHOT Show was going on at the time :rolleyes: . So, despite the fact that the gripe itself was completely legit, the timeline was absolutely not; companies run reduced staffs during that time-frame, which isn't difficult to figure that out if you're a member of M4C...except for the subset of our membership that kids themselves as to how much SA they have. Ergo, that thread got canked with a quickness, even though the company in question rogered up in it, because the OP hadn't done his due diligence....not even CLOSE.
The idea that companies are usually engaging in business other than that of the individual seems to get lost in our give-it-to-me-NOW, self-centered society, but in this case, due diligence has been satisfied. Hence, the public peek behind the curtain.
We would, however, like to see less extraneous commentary in these threads. If you're not the vendor seeking to roger up, or the OP passing updates as they occur, members are probably kidding themselves if they think that anything they post beyond this point is truly relevant. While nothing up to this point is against policy, per se, they're kinda out of the "style guide," because lots of folks are posting just to say something, even though they don't have anything to say.
This is the OP's soap-box, not yours, so think hard before you hit that Submit button, because I'm gonna start scrubbing BS posts. I'm also not the only one watching this thread closely. Hint-hint.
Maybe we should be giving PSA some slack until more data & experience come in?
Okay, given the time-stamp, that was probably being typed as I posted, but that's exactly what I was talking about. IOT ensure that there's no confusion....
If you're not the OP with a status update, or the vendor, DO NOT post.
Once either of the above occur, responsible discussion may resume...within reason. Until either of the above occur, leave the line clear of traffic.
SomeOtherGuy
02-06-12, 13:18
PSA's rep here has been very helpful and I have my UPS call tag for return of the defective BCG, which I'll be shipping to them tomorrow.
I'll update when the situation is fully resolved, or (unlikely at this point) if things go awry.
I used to like them, but recent experiences have just been souring. From finding my middy upper from them comes with a round handguard cap to listening to their people talk about how great some random DPMS rifle is while in their store, and one of their employees having a personal rifle on display that isn't anything special (basic magpul'd rifle with an aimpoint) which isn't for sale but is for sale for the right price.
I suppose that's only the storefront I cant stand. If the people I find in the storefront are any indication though, I wouldn't be surprised by bad customer service.
sounds like a normal gun store...
sinlessorrow
02-06-12, 14:26
PSA's rep here has been very helpful and I have my UPS call tag for return of the defective BCG, which I'll be shipping to them tomorrow.
I'll update when the situation is fully resolved, or (unlikely at this point) if things go awry.
keep us updated OP
Colt..... colt.... Colt....
Come on I know you guys all love colt hell so do I but get off this anybody but Colt, DD, and BCM.
Not true. Colt, DD, BCM, LaRue, KAC, Noveske. The site likes quality, not names. PSA simply has not done well enough to even belong in the same sentence as the others. I don't give two shits about them; just trying to explain where many are coming from. Why buy questionable when proven is already on the shelves? Do all manufacturer's produce lemons? Of course, but PSA seems to have a higher probability of issues which is coupled with the fact their CS seems to be spotty at best.
PSA seems to have a higher probability of issues
Really? One BCG failure, one round shipped in chamber, a couple of mismatched gas tubes. Out of how many uppers/complete rifles sold? Do you know or are you just making assumptions? How many issues do companies like BCM, Colt, KAC, LMT, Noveske, etc have? Do they have a similar rate of errors, but have better CS to fix them quietly, or do they actually have less human errors?
I concur that PSA's CS seems to lack a bit, pehaps due to growing pains, but how can you make an intelligent statement, one way or another, on the probability of an issue without knowing all the facts?
I don't get these discussions. If you're talking about whether PSA/Spikes/whatever is 'as good as' brand X (BCM/DD/Colt/etc), then you've missed the point. Why screw around with Unknowns?!? We KNOW certain makers produce reliable products. Why would you purposely take a detour away from something know to be excellent?!?
If there were a shortage, I'd understand. If the price difference was measured by four figures, I'd understand.
Yep. I have several co-workers who are looking for options and I tell them the same: BCUSA and they come back with all manner of companies and products. I've learned to "let the dead bury the dead"...
Freezerman1
02-07-12, 21:52
2 days and counting,no response on my issues.
I RETRACT THIS STATEMENT MY EMAIL ISSUES ARE TO BLAME
I'm 1.5 hours away from PSA. I was looking for a certain shotgun and I knew they had it from a prior visit two weeks earlier.
I called about 20+ times within 10 days to make sure hey still had it before I made the drive up there. My local shops old not get the Mossberge 930 SPX for some reason. I could have ordered it online but I want to help the brick and mortar store.
Anyway, not only did I call a ridiculous amount of times, no answering machine or service, I also emailed the a few times. Not once did I get a phone call nor did I get an email reply. The only reason I was persistent was because I could not find the gun anywhere and the other times I stopped by their store, they were great.
I'll give them the benefit of the doubt in the fact that hey are busy with their new store opening, but, give me a break. I'm a business man myself with 80 employees and I manage to delegate where delegating is needed. That shows how a successful business is run and that us why I will not buy a PSA AR.
On another note, when I confront them about their lack of customer service, I get a lot of lah blah blah. In person, they are good but that is no where near good enough to me to buy my consumer confidence.
Oh, and BTW, I still have not received an email or phone call.
I own 2 of their rifles one I bought as a complete the other I bought as a kit with a stripped lower , So far so good 1800 rds thru gun #1 since December 24th , Gun #2 has roughly 350 rds thru it in the past couple weeks , both with no issues and I have run mostly steel cased ammo thru them both . I would have to guess if Colt , DD , or Noveske ran a stripped lower for $49 everyone would also be on the waiting list and Im sure someone out their would complain about how long it took to get it and how their CS sucked because they didnt get it promptly . Now I dont put PSA in the same quality as the 3 above but you really do get a hell of a gun for $600 or less . I can probably say that some of the nay sayers and I told ya so's out there have probably never had their hands on one, but people like drama so some will add to the fire.
Either way companies make mistakes , Companies out grow themselves , employees come and go . They learn from their mistakes and thats what makes business's better , grow larger and makes them big time like the 3 above .
Also very true about phone calls and emails it does take a couple days to get a return reply which is not great CS but I do understand they are busy but they have always gotten back to me within a couple days
SomeOtherGuy
02-13-12, 13:43
I received from PSA today a replacement new bolt carrier group. It's new in a tube, not my previous one. I have not test fired it and probably won't for some length of time, since I usually marry bolts with barrels. The issues I'd had with the prior BCG are not present - the cam pin removes correctly, the cam pin track appears to be the correct dimensions and shape, and of course being new there is no damage or unusual wear on the bolt.
I want to thank PSA's rep here for helping to get this resolved.
Mods feel free to close this topic.
Breadstick
02-13-12, 19:31
Fine job
I received from PSA today a replacement new bolt carrier group. It's new in a tube, not my previous one. I have not test fired it and probably won't for some length of time, since I usually marry bolts with barrels. The issues I'd had with the prior BCG are not present - the cam pin removes correctly, the cam pin track appears to be the correct dimensions and shape, and of course being new there is no damage or unusual wear on the bolt.
I want to thank PSA's rep here for helping to get this resolved.
Mods feel free to close this topic.
Done. Thanks.
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