View Full Version : Serious use handgun
blackjack_03
02-04-12, 09:29
I have never been much into pistols. I have one, a ruger sr9, that I keep for home defense. I would like to upgrade to something better and would like some suggestion on which ones I should look at. It will mostly sit on my nightstand but also will carry at times. I will say I tried some glocks but they didn't fit my hands comfortably so I probably wouldn't consider one, anything else is and option.
You're going to get a million different opinions on this!
I for one have had nothing but good experiences with my Berettas. A 92a1 or 96a1 (same pistol, 92 is 9mm, 96 is .40) would be a good option for both a nightstand pistol or carry gun. It's a little larger, but not huge.
Theres also 92/96 Compacts, which are the same as the fullsize but just slightly smaller...
I like Berettas because they still have external safety switches, unlike most modern day guns. Thats all personal preference though, if you'd prefer to just grab the gun and start shooting then there are other options.
I've also recently picked up an H&K USP in .45 and I LOVE the gun...I think its actually taken the lead as my favorite pistol now. Unfortunately I'd say its probably not good as a carry pistol, since its rather large. They do make H&K USP Compacts though, which could be a good size.
There are so many options for what you're looking for, your best bet is to do a lot of reading and try narrowing it down. If you come back to this post with a few options I think the people here could help you narrow it down some more.
There are a number of threads discussing current trends in the successes and liabilities of assorted duty-grade handguns. Get a cup of coffee, scroll down in the forum you posted your question in, and absorb the volumes of information.
TeamGrazzi
02-04-12, 10:01
I will say I tried some glocks but they didn't fit my hands comfortably so I probably wouldn't consider one, anything else is and option.
I did the same thing and wasn't a huge fan of the Glock... I know I am the odd ball... I fell in love with the M&P 9mm. The adjustable grip sizes (med for me) makes it fit like a glove and really feels like an extention of my hand. Just my .02 FWIW
I have never been much into pistols. I have one, a ruger sr9, that I keep for home defense. I would like to upgrade to something better and would like some suggestion on which ones I should look at. It will mostly sit on my nightstand but also will carry at times. I will say I tried some glocks but they didn't fit my hands comfortably so I probably wouldn't consider one, anything else is and option.
Try out a Walther PPQ and a S&W M&P. They have adjustable back straps so they might fit your hand better.
C4
M&P would do you well. And as much as it pains me to say it, glocks are notoriously reliable for "serious use". But me personally? I can't get over the grip angle so it's all about the M&P.
caddishatch
02-04-12, 11:43
Try out a Walther PPQ and a S&W M&P. They have adjustable back straps so they might fit your hand better.
C4
You cannot go wrong with a Walther PPQ. Try one out! You will like it.
I'd recommend you check out a higher end German Sig, or an HK. If you've got the money to spend - the P30. The HK P30 has arguably the best grip of any handgun in existence today and it's the epitome of a "hard use" handgun. It also has the various adjustable back straps for the grip included. Trade in your Ruger towards the 9MM P30 and that'll help cut the price down a bit.
Just my 2 cents.
Trade in your Ruger
i think if you stick with the proven pistols (german Sigs, HK, M&P, the Walther PPQ really seems to be a nice option) you will be much better off....
and definitely follow djmorris' advice that i quoted. even the die hard Ruger guys are having problems with the SR series and are sending them in for repairs, but they still wont admit its an inferior product.
jmlshooter
02-04-12, 15:08
You'd be surprised how well the Glock "fits your hand" once you learn to run it....
I'd think Glock 17 is the definition of serious use handgun.
CumbiaDude
02-04-12, 16:00
I know you said no Glocks, but:
Gen 3 Glock 19. Just a little dremeling to tweak the front grooves, plus a Vickers mag release. Maybe their slide release, too, if you want it.
Fits much better after that :)
When you said you tried Glocks was it a Gen3 or Gen 4. The Gen 4 fits my hand much better than the Gen3. If you're not going to carry concealed find a Gen4 17 made after Nov 2011. If you're going to carry it find a Gen4 19 made after Nov 2011.
I'd recommend you check out a higher end German Sig, or an HK. If you've got the money to spend - the P30. The HK P30 has arguably the best grip of any handgun in existence today and it's the epitome of a "hard use" handgun. It also has the various adjustable back straps for the grip included. Trade in your Ruger towards the 9MM P30 and that'll help cut the price down a bit.
Just my 2 cents.
Agree completely. You should consider going to a range that rents guns and "rent the wall". Try many options to find what fits you best. That said, the P30 and HK45 are my personal favorites.
Failure2Stop
02-04-12, 16:35
You'd be surprised how well the Glock "fits your hand" once you learn to run it....
The man speaks the truth.
Without knowing what it's supposed to feel like the frame of reference is lacking.
That being said, the P30 is probably the most ergonomic and grip configurable duty grade pistol I have used.
I may incur some WTF looks here, but what's wrong with your SR9? If your example has proven reliable I'd suggest that you invest that $550 into ammo and training instead.
Can't disagree with the ideas thus far, only to add I really, really like my recent purchase - HK45c. Fits great and shoots like a dream. FWIW...........
Busta Prima
02-04-12, 18:49
If you don't like the feel of the Glocks (I would have recommended a 23 otherwise - good balance of stopping power and capacity and very concealable) take a look at the Springfield XD line and the Smith & Wesson MP line. They come in different sizes and calibers. They have great reviews and decent prices.
Alaskapopo
02-04-12, 19:22
I have never been much into pistols. I have one, a ruger sr9, that I keep for home defense. I would like to upgrade to something better and would like some suggestion on which ones I should look at. It will mostly sit on my nightstand but also will carry at times. I will say I tried some glocks but they didn't fit my hands comfortably so I probably wouldn't consider one, anything else is and option.
If the GLock did not fit your hand try the Walther PPQ.
Pat
blasternank
02-04-12, 19:40
Since glock is out I'd go with either the M&P or Springfield XD. See which one feels better in your hand and buy it. They will all function well.
I have never been much into pistols. I have one, a ruger sr9, that I keep for home defense. I would like to upgrade to something better and would like some suggestion on which ones I should look at. It will mostly sit on my nightstand but also will carry at times. I will say I tried some glocks but they didn't fit my hands comfortably so I probably wouldn't consider one, anything else is and option.
A shotgun, 12 or 20 gauge, is your best bet, especially since you're not "into pistols."
A good semi automatic rifle in 5.56 also shouldn't be sneezed at.
But your best bet with a handgun is to get a 1911 in .45, or a Browning Hi-Power in 9mm, and spend the effort to get "into" it.
Don't buy anything.
Get some training.
Learn to run a handgun.
Then make a decision what tool will be best for your needs.
If I were in the market for a solid, reliable, personal defense pistol, I'd get a used 3rd gen Glock 17 or 19 made prior to mid-2010. After that, probably an S&W M&P.
Whatever you do, don't purchase some obscure pistol that no major professionals use--look what works well for the more dialed in LE and military folks, as it will probably work for you...
Busta Prima
02-05-12, 01:25
I suggested the M&P but evidentally there are issues with the 9mm. They make a .40 and a .45 too.
Listen to Doc. That is by far your best option.
unless you can't stand the the sr9 just shoot it alot,what makes it not a hard use pistol?I like the m&p grip better than my sigs or glocks.
this being said Ilike 1911's best.second best I like m&ps
packinaglock
02-05-12, 06:16
If Glocks are out I would say the S&W M&P series.
A 1911 isn't the best at anything the OP will be using it for and a quality example is silly expensive. Yeah, yeah I know yours "works fine " but I don't want to hash that out in this thread. There are better alternatives at half the price that will be less finicky. Listen to Doc
RogerinTPA
02-05-12, 08:16
M&P9 or 40 with Apex sear and striker block.
HK. either a P30 or P2000. These are serious fighting guns. FWIW, I prefer GLOCK and HK.
Psalms144.1
02-05-12, 09:25
Doc Roberts' advice is the best you'll read today - when he talks, it's best to shut the hell up and listen.
If you're still interested in opinions, here's my completely personal one:
-the Glock 19 was, hands down, the best self-defense/concealed carry pistol on the market - based on reliability, size efficiency, shootability, and "combat" accuracy. For many, the grip shape and angle make the pistol "point" high, but that can be trained through, or fixed with a trip to any number of folks who can do a grip reduction. Unfortunately, in mid-2010, something went sideways at Glock, and it's simply impossible to predict what you will get with a G19 made since then. Either it will work great, like the older guns, or it won't work worth a darn, and no amount of tweaking, except for a trip to Mr. Lee's magic foundry, will make it work. The Gen4 G19 makes the grip angle more workable, but, they're a complete train wreck when it comes to reliability.
-the S&W M&P 9mms have "better" ergonomics than the Glock, according to a lot of folks, but, for me, none of the golf-ball back straps makes the pistol feel "right" in my hand. Many evidence what can best be labeled lackluster accuracy, and the good folks at S&W don't show any interest in making it better. Guys I trust my life with, who can shoot better than I could ever hope to, tell me that they have out of the box M&Ps that shoot 12" groups at 25 yards. The trigger is, IMHO, an abortion - soft and indistinct break, and a non-existent reset point. The trigger is a relatively easy fix, again, thanks to Mr. Lee's efforts, and the 9mm accuracy issue sounds like it's close to a resolution, if you want to spend the money for a quality barrel fitted to your $400 gun. For me, that's not a good investment.
-Sig is still languishing under management that puts cosmetics over function, and is more interested in profit margins than in providing a quality pistol. Again, get a good used Sig from the pre-2005 era, and you've got a wonderful pistol, but anything after that will be luck of the draw in terms of trigger, accuracy, and reliability. Plus, Sigs are not terribly size/weight efficient.
-HK puts out any number of quality products, but they come at a STEEP price compared to their competition's polymer pistols. I personally find the P30's grip to be the best pistol grip I've ever felt, and the V4 LEM trigger is pretty darned nice, less the long-ish reset. HK can't seem to figure out how to make a decent DA/SA trigger - the DA's tend to be VERY heavy and creepy (though I will say the SA on the HK45ct is pretty dang nice!). HKs are complicated pistols, with expensive parts, magazines and accessories, and parts and holsters are frequently hard to find. HK also hasn't figured out how to make a "family" of pistols yet, where parts and magazines exchange between full size, compact, and/or subcompact pistols - with HK, what you see is what you get.
-FN puts out quite a few reasonable models, and their new striker-fired pistol is intriguing, but I haven't had enough trigger time with any of them to really provide an opinion. The same goes for the Walther lineup.
After having three G19 lemons in the last year, and waiting over 4 months for Glock to provide the latest untested pistol for me, I gave up the ghost and got a HK P30. My wallet is screaming, but, so far, it's been reliable and considerably more accurate than any Glock I've ever shot. If my agency authorized Walthers, I'd probably have picked up the PPQ - since it seems to offer the best of both worlds in the P30's ergos and the Glock's easy to run trigger.
Again, this is one man's opinion, and worth precisely what you paid for it.
Regards,
Kevin
You'd be surprised how well the Glock "fits your hand" once you learn to run it....
The man speaks the truth.
Without knowing what it's supposed to feel like the frame of reference is lacking. That being said, the P30 is probably the most ergonomic and grip configurable duty grade pistol I have used.
Adding: Don't confuse dry-handling and feel with that experienced during live-fire, and the resultant effect on use and control of the gun. Too many folks will handle a gun at a counter and note that they like or don't like it, which isn't the entire picture.
Ive owned an XD45, Glock 19, M&P45, and a M&P9. I kept the M&9.
Alaskapopo
02-05-12, 10:48
A 1911 isn't the best at anything the OP will be using it for and a quality example is silly expensive. Yeah, yeah I know yours "works fine " but I don't want to hash that out in this thread. There are better alternatives at half the price that will be less finicky. Listen to Doc
False the 1911 is the best of the bunch at being the most shootable of any platform. IT does have its draw backs but it also has its strengths.
1. Most accurate platform going.
2. Best trigger.
Draw backs
1. Much higher level of maintenance required.
2. Cost.
http://sites.google.com/site/tacticalyellowvisor/concepts/where-do-i-begin
http://sites.google.com/site/tacticalyellowvisor/concepts/where-do-i-begin
good stuff
Don't buy anything.
Whatever you do, don't purchase some obscure pistol that no major professionals use--look what works well for the more dialed in LE and military folks, as it will probably work for you...
I'm confused. He has an obscure pistol that no major professionals use, yet you're telli him not to buy anything. Why not trade the sr9 in on an m&p or Glock?
Nothing to be confused about. I told him not to buy anything until he gets some better training and gains more knowledge, so that he can make an informed choice on the best option for his circumstances.
Try out a Walther PPQ
I think this will be my next pistol. It would be interesting to see how the PPQ performs in harsh conditions such as mud and sand.
Can't disagree with the ideas thus far, only to add I really, really like my recent purchase - HK45c. Fits great and shoots like a dream. FWIW...........
+1 love my HK45c it's awesome.
blackjack_03
02-06-12, 00:48
Well i havent had any issues with my sr9. It shoots fine although the trigger pull is a little heavy. I was considering finding another because of reading through the forums it seemed it was more of a range gun than anything else. I will continue developing my shooting skills, but thought it might be easier with a different pistol.
I love my new walther ppq. Grip options are great and the trigger is sweet. Fairly new gun in the market but it's pretty tuff to find anything negative about these pistols.
Nothing to be confused about. I told him not to buy anything until he gets some better training and gains more knowledge, so that he can make an informed choice on the best option for his circumstances.
I couldn't agree more with you sir! My friend asked me this question just the the day. I told him to learn to shoot first.
After having three G19 lemons in the last year, and waiting over 4 months for Glock to provide the latest untested pistol for me, I gave up the ghost and got a HK P30. My wallet is screaming, but, so far, it's been reliable and considerably more accurate than any Glock I've ever shot. If my agency authorized Walthers, I'd probably have picked up the PPQ - since it seems to offer the best of both worlds in the P30's ergos and the Glock's easy to run trigger.
Kevin
I must have got lucky with my Gen 4 G19. It has been flawless with ~3200 rounds in it so far... only one or two malfunctions due to ammo. I also owned a P30 and I wouldn't say it was way more accurate. Maybe a little but not drastic or anything...
I must have got lucky with my Gen 4 G19. It has been flawless with ~3200 rounds in it so far... only one or two malfunctions due to ammo. I also owned a P30 and I wouldn't say it was way more accurate. Maybe a little but not drastic or anything...
+1 on the gen 4s-- ivnow have 2 x19 ,a 17 a34 and a 26, and i just love shooting them all!(not at the same time:nono:)......
the p30 i sold last year, felt heavy and "bricky" in comarison to the lighter and more agile 19s(my main edc).~7500 failry uneventfull rounds.
The Dumb Gun Collector
02-08-12, 18:07
P30 in 9mm
I have never been much into pistols. I have one, a ruger sr9, that I keep for home defense. I would like to upgrade to something better and would like some suggestion on which ones I should look at. It will mostly sit on my nightstand but also will carry at times. I will say I tried some glocks but they didn't fit my hands comfortably so I probably wouldn't consider one, anything else is and option.
what about glocks didn't fit your hands? which models?
OldGrayGuy
02-09-12, 08:11
I have carried both the Sig and Glock and they are okay. But they are not up to the new design H&K pistols. Expensive, yes, but seem to have fewer problems than most other common brands.
When guys like Larry Vickers speak of the superiority of say the HK45 I sit up and pay attention.
I have never been much into pistols. I have one, a ruger sr9, that I keep for home defense. I would like to upgrade to something better and would like some suggestion on which ones I should look at. It will mostly sit on my nightstand but also will carry at times. I will say I tried some glocks but they didn't fit my hands comfortably so I probably wouldn't consider one, anything else is and option.
My brother has a glock. My initial impression was that it was the most uncomfortable gun I've ever held. Then we hit the range... I shot a lot better with that off the bat than my VERY comfortable cz. My next gun is a g19. You just have to "feel" the gun point with your thumbs or web of hand rather than your fist... dunno if thats clear but once you get used to it, its great. Also, now that I know how to properly, aggressivly hold a gun, it seems glocks are made perfectly. YMMV. I wouldnt consider it for relaxed bullseye shooting, but for "combat" style stuff, its great.
I understand other people might be different, but thats how it worked for me.
Saying all that to explain why its so important to shoot a gun before you decide against it, you might not know what your missing.
edit, Oh, going with what doc said. Get trained on how to shoot before you decide. If I had done that... or at least shot more first, I would have started off with the g19 or p30 instead of the cz I have now... Oh well. Live and learn I guess.
Alaskapopo
02-09-12, 12:52
I have carried both the Sig and Glock and they are okay. But they are not up to the new design H&K pistols. Expensive, yes, but seem to have fewer problems than most other common brands.
When guys like Larry Vickers speak of the superiority of say the HK45 I sit up and pay attention.
I believe it was also Larry Vickers who said we live in a Glock world. The HK45 is a nice pistol but I much prefer a Glock 17. Twice as much ammo, much better trigger, lower bore axis and less recoil.
Pat
I believe it was also Larry Vickers who said we live in a Glock world. The HK45 is a nice pistol but I much prefer a Glock 17. Twice as much ammo, much better trigger, lower bore axis and less recoil.
Pat
Larry has said before that hk still doesnt know the meaning of good trigger. Compared to a glock trigger the hk is miserable, thats true of glock vs any doa guns. The single action portion of the trigger is nice, but seems the world is moving towards decockin over cocked and locked.
The M&P is a great choice in the middle price range if you don't like the feel of the Glock. For me, I've always liked the trigger on the Glock compared to the M&P or XD but I just can't get past the grip angle. An Apex sear kit really helps clean up the M&P's trigger.
Sig's and HK's are both dead nuts reliable but so is the M&P and the Glock, both of which cost several hundred dollars less in comparison. I've just always found Sig's and HK's too bulky, but that is a personal preferance. Sig's and HK's, by definition are extreme duty type weapons and if you like them and shoot them well they are a great choice.
The only trigger time I've had behind an FN is dry firing but even still it was enough to know that, that is one mushy, ambiguous trigger. $1000 for the tactical is quite a stretch in my opinion when you can get a M&P with a threaded barrel for under $600. Good looking pistols but I just can't justify the price tag.
Sig's and HK's are both dead nuts reliable but so is the M&P and the Glock, both of which cost several hundred dollars less in comparison.
Not quite 'several hundred'...more like $2-300. M&Ps can be bought for between $5-700 depending on the gun and package while the basic Sig 226 or 229 will run $7-800.
You can buy M&P's for under $500 all day long. I don't think comparing a tricked out M&P to a base model Sig or HK is quite fair. $200-$300 is "several hundred dollars" to me but I guess the word "several" is a relative term.
You can buy M&P's for under $500 all day long.
Ok...$480....:rolleyes:
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