View Full Version : Cleaning my AR
Is my cleaning method unconventional? Im talking it over with a my buddy and he thinks I am too OCD when it comes to keeping my weapons spit shined. What do you think? let me know if I dont need to to somethings or what you would add/recommend. Ive used this method for a while and all my guns stay nice.
Bore:
-Run Hoppe's Semi-Auto solvent through bore w/patch. let sit for 5 min.
-Run OTIS bronze bore through 5-10 times, run through patch until semi clean.
-Run through Sharp Shoot R Wipe-Out Bore Cleaning Solvent Accelerator w/ Spray in Sharp Shoot Wipe-out Brushless Foaming Bore cleaner. They work together. Let sit for 30 min.
-Run patches till clean.
-Spray a shot of Hoppe's MOLY oil Aerosol down barrel. Run 1 patch to wipe excess.
Receiver:
-Spray with non-chlorinated brake cleaner (trigger,bolt, etc..)
-Q-tip hard to reach areas with Hoppe's 9
-Brush trigger and mag area
-Wipe clean with wrag
-Spray receiver and bolt with Eezox gun care oil
-Use Lucas Oil Green grease on major contact points. Very lightly and only on specific guns. (FA's)
Then Ill wipe entire gun down with a Silicone Cloth.
Then again, my buddy uses just a bore snake and some rem. oil ALWAYS. Do you think im too OCD? He isnt the first to tell me that.:sarcastic:.
Evil Colt 6920
02-06-12, 02:12
First off, I dont think there is anything wrong with keeping a gun clean. I actually enjoy cleaning my guns. As for my barrels, I just bore snake them 5 or so times right after shooting while they're still hot. Then when I get home I clean the rest of the gun with Hoppes No. 9
I just got a sonic cleaner for cleaning my brass and I am anxious to see how it works with my BCG. I plan on blasting some hogs tomorrow so Ill be finding out soon. As far as my AR lowers go, I do clean them a little after shooting but dont get to crazy with them. I prolly clean them up real good once a year.
Is my cleaning method unconventional? Im talking it over with a my buddy and he thinks I am too OCD when it comes to keeping my weapons spit shined. What do you think? let me know if I dont need to to somethings or what you would add/recommend. Ive used this method for a while and all my guns stay nice.
Bore:
-Run Hoppe's Semi-Auto solvent through bore w/patch. let sit for 5 min.
-Run OTIS bronze bore through 5-10 times, run through patch until semi clean.
-Run through Sharp Shoot R Wipe-Out Bore Cleaning Solvent Accelerator w/ Spray in Sharp Shoot Wipe-out Brushless Foaming Bore cleaner. They work together. Let sit for 30 min.
-Run patches till clean.
-Spray a shot of Hoppe's MOLY oil Aerosol down barrel. Run 1 patch to wipe excess.
Receiver:
-Spray with non-chlorinated brake cleaner (trigger,bolt, etc..)
-Q-tip hard to reach areas with Hoppe's 9
-Brush trigger and mag area
-Wipe clean with wrag
-Spray receiver and bolt with Eezox gun care oil
-Use Lucas Oil Green grease on major contact points. Very lightly and only on specific guns. (FA's)
Then Ill wipe entire gun down with a Silicone Cloth.
Then again, my buddy uses just a bore snake and some rem. oil ALWAYS. Do you think im too OCD? He isnt the first to tell me that.:sarcastic:.
Yes your OCD, I use Mpro7 and brush out the barrel 5-6 times, spend 5-10 minutes cleaning the inside of the upper with Mpro7, another 5-10 minutes on the BCG and I'm done.
Yes, you are overthinking this. Might I be so bold as to suggest that you use the ORANGE search button and look at other cleaning threads.
You don't need to use all of those nasty chemicals.
Littlelebowski
02-06-12, 06:24
Making sure that you're outside, hose the whole thing out with non chlorinated brake cleaner. Bore snake a a couple of times with a bit of the solvent of your choice on the bore snake. Relube. Do this every few hundred rounds or even more. I generally go a thousand rounds between cleanings.
You don't need to clean the barrel like that unless accuracy has dropped off.
Seems a-bit excessive.. Ron
Seems a-bit excessive.. Ron
Very excessive, get one do it all product and you're good to go. I recently switched to Gunzilla because it is non-toxic and I must say it takes off carbon like nothing I've ever seen before, and I've used them all. http://www.gunzilla.us/
You need to pick one cleaner and one lube, no need to mix things, etc. If you want to spend time on things, do it on the BCG, chamber and lug recess, that's the heart of the weapon.
You need to pick one cleaner and one lube, no need to mix things, etc. If you want to spend time on things, do it on the BCG, chamber and lug recess, that's the heart of the weapon.
Completely agree.
I am going to provide a different view here.
I fully understand that a weapon system can run with just lube and no cleaning for thousands of rounds. However, I don't see it as a valid reason for not ceaning the rifle properly.
I do not advocate excessive cleaning or using the wrong techniques, but in my mind there is no reason not to clean it.
I clean my issued rifle after each range session. Not to a white-glove inspection quality, but properly.
My reasoning for this is that I get to inspect my weapon parts regularly, and it is also easier to see wear or breaks on clean parts rather than parts caked in thousands of rounds of grit. Also, I know that my rifle is in a proper working condition at all times, with all parts properly lubed.
This is also the same standard I hold my guys to, including the officers and NCO's, and all weapon systems.
I enforce the same standard in the field as well, with field maintenance being done every day when time and opportunity presents itself.
Agreed with that post too.
I am running one gun super sloppy filthy with Froglube just to see what everyone already knows....
Froglube.... I put that shit on everything.
I have the cleaning thread sticky (on AR general) as a guide, one way of doing things.
The big thing is to protect your investment by not unnecessarily abusing it by not cleaning or over cleaning. One example of over cleaning is chucking a cleaning rod on a drill and running it in the bore or using a wire wheel to clean the bolt. Not cleaning, yes applying lube can dissolve particulates and keep the parts lubed so it will/may run, but it will run more efficiently having the sludge removed.
I like to remove any variables that can affect my weapons performance. So I maintain mine by cleaning after firing and lubing to be operational for whatever I'm doing whether it's at work, training, hunting or competition. Just remember, it failing because of poor maintenance in training or a comp just cost you the time of a malfunction or worse clearance. Work/defense or hunting will cost you much more-why take a chance?
Horse, saddle, man
Mark
Very good post Mark.
One example of over cleaning is chucking a cleaning rod on a drill and running it in the bore
Saw a soldier do this last year, with the SL standing there and watching him:rolleyes:
Im new to ARs and I understand that they can go for a thousands of rounds without cleaning. Personally, however, I dont see the point in not cleaning your gun often. I clean my gun after every trip to the range. I like cleaning it, and I like knowing it's clean for the next time. Sure, it probably wouldn't hurt anything if I didnt clean it, but I dont see the point.
This is how I clean my ARs.
http://vuurwapenblog.com/2010/08/27/cleaning-your-ar-15-is-pretty-much-a-waste-of-time/
Breakfree LP generously on lugs, cam pin, bolt body, piston rings.
Breakfree CLP lightly everywhere else.
Microalign
02-06-12, 11:28
Seems excessive to me too. In the old days of black powder, and corrosive ammo you needed to perform thorough cleanings to prevent bore errosion. Add rust resistant steels of modern firearms, and chrome lined bores and chambers and you have even more protection. A decent CLP will take care of "most" of your cleaning needs, and a high temperature grease like TW-25b to lube the bolt carrier assembly. Occasional copper cutting solvents are good to use on the bore every few thousands rounds or more. Either way, cleaning is not as much of an issue in a top tier AR as just keeping moving parts lubed.
A decent CLP will take care of "most" of your cleaning needs, and a high temperature grease like TW-25b to lube the bolt carrier assembly.
I used to be on that program. After a few weeks with Froglube though..... Forget it. The stuff really works better.
Making sure that you're outside, hose the whole thing out with non chlorinated brake cleaner. Bore snake a a couple of times with a bit of the solvent of your choice on the bore snake. Relube. Do this every few hundred rounds or even more. I generally go a thousand rounds between cleanings.
You don't need to clean the barrel like that unless accuracy has dropped off.
Pretty much what I do....
thopkins22
02-06-12, 11:37
I used to be on that program. After a few weeks with Froglube though..... Forget it. The stuff really works better.
Are you using the paste on the cam pin and other places that one might use grease? Or just the stuff that's more oil like?
Probably more than a little archaic, but I clean/lube everything I use (1911/AR) the same way. I clean with a standard solvent (shooters choice) and boresnake, wipe down with an anti-corrosion product with VPCI (RemOil) and lube (well) with a standard gun oil (FP-10). Every few hundred rounds, unless something prompts me to clean more often. JMO.. Ron
Are you using the paste on the cam pin and other places that one might use grease? Or just the stuff that's more oil like?
Just the lube. Never tried the paste. The stuff is impressive.
I probably clean a little too much myself, but at this time, I have too much going on to shoot regularly and therefore if I don't know when I am going to hit the range again (months?) I want to make sure the rifle is clean while in the safe. If its been a while, I might bring them out a do a quick inspect/clean, but nothing more than 5 mins on them. If I know I am going to hit the range multiple times in a week, I just lube and wait on the cleaning.
I probably clean a little too much myself, but at this time, I have too much going on to shoot regularly and therefore if I don't know when I am going to hit the range again (months?) I want to make sure the rifle is clean while in the safe. If its been a while, I might bring them out a do a quick inspect/clean, but nothing more than 5 mins on them. If I know I am going to hit the range multiple times in a week, I just lube and wait on the cleaning.
This makes sense. Its been my experience that the guys that shot the most tend to clean the least and vice versa.
Is my cleaning method unconventional? Im talking it over with a my buddy and he thinks I am too OCD when it comes to keeping my weapons spit shined. What do you think? let me know if I dont need to to somethings or what you would add/recommend. Ive used this method for a while and all my guns stay nice.
Bore:
-Run Hoppe's Semi-Auto solvent through bore w/patch. let sit for 5 min.
-Run OTIS bronze bore through 5-10 times, run through patch until semi clean.
-Run through Sharp Shoot R Wipe-Out Bore Cleaning Solvent Accelerator w/ Spray in Sharp Shoot Wipe-out Brushless Foaming Bore cleaner. They work together. Let sit for 30 min.
-Run patches till clean.
-Spray a shot of Hoppe's MOLY oil Aerosol down barrel. Run 1 patch to wipe excess.
Receiver:
-Spray with non-chlorinated brake cleaner (trigger,bolt, etc..)
-Q-tip hard to reach areas with Hoppe's 9
-Brush trigger and mag area
-Wipe clean with wrag
-Spray receiver and bolt with Eezox gun care oil
-Use Lucas Oil Green grease on major contact points. Very lightly and only on specific guns. (FA's)
Then Ill wipe entire gun down with a Silicone Cloth.
Then again, my buddy uses just a bore snake and some rem. oil ALWAYS. Do you think im too OCD? He isnt the first to tell me that.:sarcastic:. I would be focused more on how frequently you're cleaning instead of the methods of how you're going about it. A basic rule of thumb that I go by is about every 1000 rounds or so. Otherwise I would say you are using way too many different types of cleaning agents. I use Mil Comm. Its safe for the environment and does a damn good job. Once I go through the rifle with it, I grease it up with Mil Comm lubricant.
This makes sense. Its been my experience that the guys that shot the most tend to clean the least and vice versa.
That's true.. Ron
This is how I clean my ARs.
http://vuurwapenblog.com/2010/08/27/cleaning-your-ar-15-is-pretty-much-a-waste-of-time/
Breakfree LP generously on lugs, cam pin, bolt body, piston rings.
Breakfree CLP lightly everywhere else.
Now, if I do deign to clean, (and you should once in a while for inspection of parts), I just scrub with Hoppe's No. 9 solvent and a GI toothbrush. Blast out the crannies with compressed air, and re-lube as above.
What is the rationale behind not cleaning the gun regularly here?
I understand that the gun does not need it, and will work when dirty and properly lubed.
I just feel that ever since two well known instructors (Pannone & Rogers) did some tests to prove a reliabilty issue with the M4 platform, everybody just flat stopped cleaning their rifles.
I just don't see the logic there. Just because it doesn't need it is not the same as you shouldn't.
This is not meant as a plug for the HK416 or a jab at DI guns. It is my duty weapon, and it is a piston system. It does not get very dirty when shot, even if I shoot A LOT through it. The dirtiest part of the gun is inside the handguard, with the piston a distant second. For what it's worth, I do not run a suppressor.
Still, I am not interested in finding out the tolerance of the system. I am an end user, not a developer. Someone made sure that the gun is reliable as part of the design. It's my job to make sure that my weapon, and the weapons of my soldiers, is functional at all times.
Therefore, I clean my rifle after every range session, even if I am going to the range the next day as well.
I lube all moving parts after cleaning, including the buffer/buffer spring and the piston and op rod assembly. The only places not getting lube is the bolt face, chamber and barrel.
So what if the gun can run 4000 rounds bone dry without cleaning? That means jack shit if it fails to fire round 4001 because of a faulty action or parts breakage that I did not find because I don't clean my rifle. If I am the one that happens to, and I am the one who saw the guy waiting in ambush and couldn't shoot him, and because of my non-chalant attitude towards cleaning got my patrol killed, I would be pretty upset with myself.
This routine does not take long, and for me it is an extra step making sure that the rifle goes bang when I need it to.
And we had a very bad incident in Afghanistan, that was caused by very poor maintenance and not lubing the weapon. These were HK416 rifles. In addition, I've had two Minimi's in my unit when I was in Afghanistan go down during a contact because of poor lubing. And there are some other incidents where weapons have stopped working under shitty conditions; rain, mud, carbon etc.
With these experiences I can find no good reason to not clean, lube and properly maintain any firearm.
Oh, and that blog that was linked to about weapons cleaning, or not cleaning........just plain retarded in my eyes.
What is the rationale behind not cleaning the gun regularly here?
I'm guessing most of the dirty guns you hear about here are recreational guns.
I agree with you on the fighting guns.... cleaned, checked out, and lubed.
If it's a fighting gun, a little overkill won't get you killed - but a lack of maintenance could.
Generalpie
02-06-12, 17:45
I think the concern is to much cleaning, done improperly can (and will) damage parts way faster then shooting.
As long as the regular maintenance is "regular" and not a soak in acid or the affore mentioned wire wheel treatment there is little danger in damaging the parts.
FWIW, I consider breaking the gun down, hosing in solvent (hoppes usually because I normally use the work kit), wiping everything down and relubing perfectly acceptable cleaning. The barrel gets sprayed down with clp or a hoppes patch and sits for a couple minutes then gets a bore snake. Re-lube and put it back in service. This is after every time I shoot any amount.
I don't consider this over or under cleaning and I feel it gives me ample number of inspections of parts to feel comfortable that the rifle is in good order.
The gun also gets a visual inspection and re-lube at the first of every month, just to make sure I don't miss anything. Especially since we lost the ability to cart it around in the front of the car. Trunks are notoriously hard on equipment.
sinlessorrow
02-06-12, 17:59
Seems a-bit excessive.. Ron
agreed, talk about serious over cleaning
i clean mine after every 300rnd range session but nothing crazy.
take BCG apart and wipe down with rag, reassemble, relube
wipe down inside of receiver with rag, clean gas tube with Q-Tip.
clean chamber and dry with patch
run boresnake down bore and follow up with 5 patches
reassemble
it takes me aobut 10-15 minutes to do all that and it looks brand new when done
I'm guessing most of the dirty guns you hear about here are recreational guns.
I agree with you on the fighting guns.... cleaned, checked out, and lubed.
i agree with this but what the OP does and what our military teaches is super over cleaning. you do not need to pass a white glove inspection to have a clean rifle, that does far more harm than good
Agreed with that post too.
I am running one gun super sloppy filthy with Froglube just to see what everyone already knows....
Froglube.... I put that shit on everything.
Yup, even on my dashboard.:D
Back on point... That's too much. A cleaning method that tedious will make me not want to shoot very often. I started out somewhat like that then quickly realized it was all unnecessary. A couple of passes down the barrel is gtg, wipe down bcg and re-lube. This method works especially well with froglube. I would do a good cleaning maybe once a year at the most and only if the weapon sees a lot of use.
you do not need to pass a white glove inspection to have a clean rifle, that does far more harm than good
Nobody is saying that this is the standard one should adhere to, and I agree and have seen the result of this kind of policy on several of our previous G3's.
I just don't see why leaving a rifle in the safe with 200, 400 or even 1000 rounds in it without cleaning, can be a good practice. Yes, I understand that it doesn't need it, but again, not the same thing as shouldn't.
Also, why do you reassemble the BCG and then lube it? Every part needs lube on all surface areas.
Cleaning a part without using some sort of cleaner, ie "wiping off with rag", really isn't cleaning. It's just moving dirt around.
I'm guessing most of the dirty guns you hear about here are recreational guns.
I hear ya. Still, strikes me as odd that the attitude is something along the lines of you're only cool if your gun is dirty.
I bought Paul Howe's Panteao DVD on the assault rifle, and he has a cleaning segment on there. It is recommended, but some folks here would most likely put him in the OCD department.
Froglube.... I put that shit on everything.
best quote ever!!
LOL!!!, and it made my tongue numb!
With these experiences I can find no good reason to not clean, lube and properly maintain any firearm.
Oh, and that blog that was linked to about weapons cleaning, or not cleaning........just plain retarded in my eyes.
Guys Arctic is right, you should regularly clean and inspect your weapons.
Engine bay degreaser, clean with brush and hoppes #9 for tough spots, boresnake a few times then clean every thing out with a can of carb cleaner. Quick, easy, degreased. Then lube everything up with weaponshield and done. Takes maybe 15 minutes to clean up after shooting.
P.S. I hate cleaning guns so the easier and faster I can do it....the better.
sinlessorrow
02-06-12, 20:26
Nobody is saying that this is the standard one should adhere to, and I agree and have seen the result of this kind of policy on several of our previous G3's.
I just don't see why leaving a rifle in the safe with 200, 400 or even 1000 rounds in it without cleaning, can be a good practice. Yes, I understand that it doesn't need it, but again, not the same thing as shouldn't.
Also, why do you reassemble the BCG and then lube it? Every part needs lube on all surface areas.
Cleaning a part without using some sort of cleaner, ie "wiping off with rag", really isn't cleaning. It's just moving dirt around.
I hear ya. Still, strikes me as odd that the attitude is something along the lines of you're only cool if your gun is dirty.
I bought Paul Howe's Panteao DVD on the assault rifle, and he has a cleaning segment on there. It is recommended, but some folks here would most likely put him in the OCD department.
i clean my rifle after every range trip generally 300-1000 rounds
i wipe it off with a rag because when im done shooting nothing is caked on. i put enough lube on the BCG that even after 500rnds its still wet.
you have to remember i use 5W30 synthetic Mobil 1 motor oil mixed with automatic transmission fluid. this concoction makes for a lube that works in both extreme heat and cold and resists heat much better than most lubes.
so a quick wipe down is all the BCG needs, when i re-assemble the BCG i put 2 drops of oil on the area the cam pin slides in, and 2 drops of oil in each hole of the BCG to make sure it gets on the gas rings, you have to remember i run DI rifles and they can be completely lubed when fully assembled
see how shiny the parts are? thats from 4 drops of my mix and a few hand cycles of the bolt
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa273/SinlesSorrow/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_9318.jpg
also that blog posted was designed to kind of show the nay sayers who preach that carbon build up is the reason why DI is a horrible system, that its not, that post was designed to show that carbon buildup is not as big of a deal as people make it out to be and that lubing is the key to keeping the AR-15 running
Nobody is saying that this is the standard one should adhere to, and I agree and have seen the result of this kind of policy on several of our previous G3's.
I just don't see why leaving a rifle in the safe with 200, 400 or even 1000 rounds in it without cleaning, can be a good practice. Yes, I understand that it doesn't need it, but again, not the same thing as shouldn't.
Also, why do you reassemble the BCG and then lube it? Every part needs lube on all surface areas.
Cleaning a part without using some sort of cleaner, ie "wiping off with rag", really isn't cleaning. It's just moving dirt around.
I hear ya. Still, strikes me as odd that the attitude is something along the lines of you're only cool if your gun is dirty.
I bought Paul Howe's Panteao DVD on the assault rifle, and he has a cleaning segment on there. It is recommended, but some folks here would most likely put him in the OCD department.
I agree. My regimen above, though quick and simple is done with liquid froglube, which I find works really well for cleaning, and after every time I shoot.
I should mention that when I do hit the range, every Sunday morning, I shoot no less than 500-1000 rounds. This is only once a week. So that is why I do the extensive cleaning each time. My cleaning method doesn't seem excessive if im shooting 3000-4000 rds a month and I want to keep my rifle in pristine working order, not to mention barrel life. Now if your shooting a few hundred rounds a few times a week or more, a more toned down cleaning method IMO can be used. Why cant I use specific products for specific parts on the gun instead of sticking with one product? Yes it may keep it more simple, but whats the downside? im not mixing different agents. I'm just part specific with some of my lubes and cleaners..
sinlessorrow
02-06-12, 22:41
artic one thing i see a ton on websites is the AK vs AR and the #1 argument you see is that the AK can go longer without cleaning than the AR, i think that kind of thinking and everyone preparing for a SHTF EOTWAWKI apocalypse is why people like to not clean their rifles
I just want to make a little clarification for those who think that some of us don't clean our weapons. That isn't the case.
I do clean my AR. I just don't bust out dozens of silly cleaners, and other stuff. I do a wipe down of the BCG, I look for obvious issues, firing pin hole, extractor, FP retainer pin, etc.. I then punch the barrel quickly, re-lube and shoot. It's about a 10-15 minute process and not the hours long anal probing with white gloves like the .MIL.
Failure2Stop
02-07-12, 10:11
What is the rationale behind not cleaning the gun regularly here?
A lot of it comes from people realizing that the myths about the AR FOW needing to be completely clean to have any hopes of working are just plain wrong. Combine that with the fact that more military weapons are worn-out due to cleaning effort instead of actual shooting, and it becomes a little annoying to hear people insist that the weapon need to be detail cleaned any time a speck of dust falls upon it or ammunition comes anywhere near it.
If anyone is saying, "Never clean your AR", then they should be considered a poor source of information, just like those that insist on the opposite.
It is completely reasonable to follow simple cleaning procedures as outlined by IG above, following use.
Terminator2003
02-07-12, 10:44
i clean my rifle after every range trip generally 300-1000 rounds
i wipe it off with a rag because when im done shooting nothing is caked on. i put enough lube on the BCG that even after 500rnds its still wet.
you have to remember i use 5W30 synthetic Mobil 1 motor oil mixed with automatic transmission fluid. this concoction makes for a lube that works in both extreme heat and cold and resists heat much better than most lubes.
so a quick wipe down is all the BCG needs, when i re-assemble the BCG i put 2 drops of oil on the area the cam pin slides in, and 2 drops of oil in each hole of the BCG to make sure it gets on the gas rings, you have to remember i run DI rifles and they can be completely lubed when fully assembled
see how shiny the parts are? thats from 4 drops of my mix and a few hand cycles of the bolt
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa273/SinlesSorrow/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_9318.jpg
also that blog posted was designed to kind of show the nay sayers who preach that carbon build up is the reason why DI is a horrible system, that its not, that post was designed to show that carbon buildup is not as big of a deal as people make it out to be and that lubing is the key to keeping the AR-15 running
I want to try this type of mixture, as I have the materials on hand (do a lot of automotive projects), but don't know the ratio that works well. What amount of trans oil do you add to say a qt. of the M1 oil?
sinlessorrow
02-07-12, 10:49
I want to try this type of mixture, as I have the materials on hand (do a lot of automotive projects), but don't know the ratio that works well. What amount of trans oil do you add to say a qt. of the M1 oil?
i do a 50/50 mixture. what ive found best is to get you a little bottle that will fit in your pistol grip and fill it half way with oil and the other half with ATF, doing this will make 1 quart of each last you years, ive been on the same quarts for 1yr now and they still have over 3/4th the quarts left. it should look like this
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa273/SinlesSorrow/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_3466.jpg
When we issued the Afghan National Army NATO (US) weapons the CLP never made it, so they mixed diesel with used motor oil; and it worked.:eek::D
Since my range is in my yard I often shoot many days in a row. A thorough cleaning after each session would be a pain in the ass and a waste of time for me. I clean when I need to, not because of adherence to archaic cleaning "rules" or shooter's myth and lore.
A lot of it comes from people realizing that the myths about the AR FOW needing to be completely clean to have any hopes of working are just plain wrong. Combine that with the fact that more military weapons are worn-out due to cleaning effort instead of actual shooting, and it becomes a little annoying to hear people insist that the weapon need to be detail cleaned any time a speck of dust falls upon it or ammunition comes anywhere near it.
If anyone is saying, "Never clean your AR", then they should be considered a poor source of information, just like those that insist on the opposite.
It is completely reasonable to follow simple cleaning procedures as outlined by IG above, following use.
I agree with and acknowledge that the AR FOW does not need to be spotless to work.
And I also know that the white glove/q-tip level of inspection is stupid and causes excessive wear. What also causes excessive wear are retarded cleaning methods, like the one mentioned above with inserting a cleaning rod into a drill and using it on the bore, using steel wool, cleaning the weapon with hot water etc. Stunts commonly used by Private Schmuckatelli.
Like you say, a reasonable cleaning regimen is a preferred method.
I am not a fan of the round count interval though, and will clean my rifle regardless of having shot 200 rds or 1000 rds.
Littlelebowski
02-07-12, 16:56
cleaning the weapon with hot water.
Nothing wrong with that. I've got an AR with over 20k rounds that gets rinsed with water after each time I shoot it. Lots of folks here have seen it. It's my 5.45. Pics on the blog.
Failure2Stop
02-07-12, 17:06
Stunts commonly used by Private Schmuckatelli.
Totally off topic, but I want to express my happiness to hear that the Schmuckatelli family extends to Norway.
Ours is a LCpl though. . .
I keep my guns clean but never run brushes through my barrels. I clean the clamber with a chamber brush soaked on Barnes CR-10 and then run a Wet Patch of Barnes CR-10 down the bore with a jag on a Dewey coated rod. I let that sit for 5 minutes while the BCG soaks in simple green. I clean the lower with Birchwood Casey gun scrubber and blow out any shit with air from my compressor. I then run a clean patch or two down the bore and then a patch of KanoKroil. I use either Slip-2000 EWL or Mobil-1 synthetic 5w30 on the BCG and lower trigger group ect.
I'm a bit OCD and like to tinker and try different shit. I actually like Eezox. :big_boss:
I agree with and acknowledge that the AR FOW does not need to be spotless to work.
And I also know that the white glove/q-tip level of inspection is stupid and causes excessive wear. What also causes excessive wear are retarded cleaning methods, like the one mentioned above with inserting a cleaning rod into a drill and using it on the bore, using steel wool, cleaning the weapon with hot water etc. Stunts commonly used by Private Schmuckatelli.
Like you say, a reasonable cleaning regimen is a preferred method.
I am not a fan of the round count interval though, and will clean my rifle regardless of having shot 200 rds or 1000 rds.
IN the '70s I shot with the ROTC guys on campus. We fired Vietnam veteran M16A1. They had a million miles on them. We'd check the rifles out of the locker and they'd be white glove clean. We were never given anything with which to lube them and so we fired them bone dry. Both semi and full auto. After a morning of this we'd spend 3 hours cleaning to white glove standard, and check them back into the locker. Never did we put a drop of lube on them. It must have been a military thing. (I don't remember any stoppages, but it must have worn the hell out of those already-worn guns.)
Now my personal ARs get a generous lubing of Breakfree LP on the bolt and carrier, and I seldom bother to clean. Complete reversal.
Nothing wrong with that. I've got an AR with over 20k rounds that gets rinsed with water after each time I shoot it. Lots of folks here have seen it. It's my 5.45. Pics on the blog.
Well, I do not recommend it.
If you use very hot water you will remove the protective coating some CLP solutions provide, that has seeped in to to pores of certain surfaces, in addition to all the lube you have previously applied to the weapon. Leaving the weapon totally unprotected. In addition, on some weapon systems you can get water into places it shouldn't be, and the weapon can start to rust where you do not see it.
You have to be very careful when relubing the rifle, to make sure you are thorough, and you should reapply a second layer of lube after a while, to replace the lube that has been absorbed by the weapon.
Not saying that some people can't pull it off, but Pvt. Schmuckatelli is poised and ready to screw things up at short notice.
Compressed air on a can, or a proper air compressor is the way to go, especially in sandy areas. I was also intrigued by one product Paul Howe used in his video to rinse out his gun. Can't remember the name......
@F2S:
Yeah, we have the Schmuckatellis here as well, in great numbers it seems sometimes......
Littlelebowski
02-07-12, 20:37
Well, I do not recommend it.
If you use very hot water you will remove the protective coating some CLP solutions provide, that has seeped in to to pores of certain surfaces, in addition to all the lube you have previously applied to the weapon. Leaving the weapon totally unprotected. In addition, on some weapon systems you can get water into places it shouldn't be, and the weapon can start to rust where you do not see it.
You have to be very careful when relubing the rifle, to make sure you are thorough, and you should reapply a second layer of lube after a while, to replace the lube that has been absorbed by the weapon.
Not saying that some people can't pull it off, but Pvt. Schmuckatelli is poised and ready to screw things up....
I and many others I served with in the Corps did this with regularity for bullshit inspections. Now I do it only when shooting my corrosive 5.45 ammo. I have never had to worry about being so meticulous and worrisome about relubing like you say. When we did it in the Corps, it was to get sand/dust out of nooks and crannies. I respectfully do not agree with you about lube absorption. Relube where the contact points are, rock on. If the FSB is rusting, hit it with a light coat. I regularly strip ALL of the lube off of my rifle using non chlorinated brake cleaner with no ill effects. I relube quickly without worrying about it and my rifles look great. I also live in a humid climate.
Just stating my opinion.....and I have seen issues with weapons rusting after being washed in water and soap. Although that was on the G3. Have only seen one guy wash his 416 so far.
And lube does get absorbed by weapons, in my experience.
But hey, we'll just agree to disagree on this, no worries! :)
Btw, I've read on here about corrosive ammo. Not something I am familiar with, is there a good thread on this?
Ok, I think this has been hashed about enough. Keep it informative--if there's anything else--
RogerinTPA
02-07-12, 21:32
Just stating my opinion.....and I have seen issues with weapons rusting after being washed in water and soap. Although that was on the G3. Have only seen one guy wash his 416 so far.
And lube does get absorbed by weapons, in my experience.
But hey, we'll just agree to disagree on this, no worries! :)
Btw, I've read on here about corrosive ammo. Not something I am familiar with, is there a good thread on this?
Try mixing Ballistol with the hot water (1 part Ballistol, 10 parts water). It emulsifies in the water and will adhere to the gun metal. Basically lubing while cleaning so parts won't rust. A lot of folks use it specifically when shooting corrosive ammo, mainly 5.45 uppers, with great effect (No corrosion). Use compressed air and hose it out with ballistol afterwards if it makes you sleep better. If you are using water without relubing, you're doing it wrong.
Try mixing Ballistol with the hot water (1 part Ballistol, 10 parts water). It emulsifies in the water and will adhere to the gun metal. Basically lubing while cleaning so parts won't rust. A lot of folks use it specifically when shooting corrosive ammo, mainly 5.45 uppers, with great effect (No corrosion). Use compressed air and hose it out with ballistol afterwards if it makes you sleep better. If you are using water without relubing, you're doing it wrong.
That sounds very interesting. I shoot a ton of corrosive ammo in my AK but just throw it in some boiling water with some dish soap. Then re-lube and oil. I like the Ballistol tho. Innovation my friend!:D
I used to shoot 100 -125 year old cap & ball rifle with my uncle in PA with real black powder. We would clean the guns with boiling hot water and soap to get rid of the corrosive salts. By the time the gun cooled; the water would be evaporated, so we lubed them. He never had a rust problem.
Just a note, a lot of people think metal "absorbs" oil...not possible.
I think evaporation is mistaken for absorption in that there may be less oil than what you put on the gun a few days before. If you put a layer of oil (especially BF CLP) and come back a week later, some of the oil, solvents, etc. will evaporate but they aren't absorbed. There might be a remaining (protective or not) film but it hasn't "soaked" into the metal.
Metal isn't porous.
But maybe it's just me...
.
Does anybody have a cast iron frying pan and care for it properly?
One of the worst thing you can do is to over clean it, like putting it in the dish washer.
Strips out the protective oil and exposes the metal to immediate rusting.
If you do that, you need to re season with oil in the oven.
The best method to clean is a wipe off any food with some paper towel and perhaps water, followed by a quick re-lube with some olive oil.
Harshly stripping down to the bare metal is not required for normal cleaning.
My philosophy for broken in guns is about the same.
Gently wipe out the loose gunk by punching a few patches with mild cleaner down the bore and follow up with a lightly oiled patch.
BGC, the same. Disassemble, wipe down with mild cleaner, re-assemble and re-lube.
The mild cleaner can be as simple as a detergent oil or CLP.
As long as the black stuff comes off the parts and shows up on the rag, it's working.
RogerinTPA
02-07-12, 22:56
That sounds very interesting. I shoot a ton of corrosive ammo in my AK but just throw it in some boiling water with some dish soap. Then re-lube and oil. I like the Ballistol tho. Innovation my friend!:D
Thanks, but the credit goes to the Ballistol/Firehawktech website itself.
http://www.firehawktech.com/Ballistol/firearms.html
They recommend a 1 in 10 ratio when using with water, as well as lots of other uses.
Metal isn't porous.
Actually, some surfaces on weapons (depending on make and material of course) have so-called micro pores, or rather small pits. Especially barrels, but dependant on lining. Also, some finishes wil retain more oil than others.
Ever heard of a gun 'sweating'? That is residual oil and carbon coming out of these pores/pits after a few days. The G3 was notorious for this, and a lot of guys got really mad for failing inspections, when the gun was white-glove clean the day before, and there was dirt the next day for inspection, even if the gun just sat in the locker.
Anyways, this is the way I clean my rifle:
-Run a CLP covered patch through the barrel of my gun as soon as I am cleared off the range
-Disassemble weapon
-Cover piston in CLP and let it sit
-Use compressed air to blow away debris from upper and lower
-Wipe off visible carbon and dirt from inside the upper and lower with dry cleaning patches
-Disassemble BCG and wipe off the parts with a dry patch. Clean parts with a patch covered in CLP. Wipe off with dry patch, then lube each component before reassembling. I do not disassemble extractor every time.
-Clean lower with patches covered in CLP
-Clean upper with patches covered in CLP
-Put CLP on chamber brush and clean locking lugs and chamber. Wipe down with dry patch
-Wipe down charging handle with dry patch, clean with patch covered in CLP. Dry off and lube.
-Wipe down lower with dry patch, and then lube the following areas:
Buffer and recoil spring
Safety selector, both sides of lower
Trigger group and springs
Bolt catch
Mag release
-Wipe down upper with dry patch, and then lube following areas:
Forward assist
Dust cover spring assembly
Inside of upper
Locking lugs
Front sight
Adjustable gas regulator (not disassembled every time)
-Wipe down piston rod, clean with patch covered in CLP, dry off and lube
-Remove carbon build up on piston with copper brush and CLP. Wipe off, and lube.
-Run a copper brush covered in CLP through bore a few times, use bore snake a few times, repeat with copper brush covered in CLP. Run a few patches through to get rid of excessive lubricant. Visually inspect.
I also visually inspect each part while cleaning it, looking for breaks or excessive wear.
The only lube I use is BreakFree CLP, although I am currently trying out Slip 2000 to see if it is good. No issues so far.
I have never needed any special concoctions to keep my guns running in the cold, or in sandy climates.
Generalpie
02-07-12, 23:46
The hot water treatment is very common with black powder guns. As mentioned though it is very important to lube it properly after it is dried off. If not it will rust by just thinking about it.
Also gun don't technically absorb oil but the oil will collect in the pores of the steel, however small they may be. Same but different ideas. Black oxide and parkerization are designed for just that.
I used to shoot 100 -125 year old cap & ball rifle with my uncle in PA with real black powder. We would clean the guns with boiling hot water and soap to get rid of the corrosive salts. By the time the gun cooled; the water would be evaporated, so we lubed them. He never had a rust problem.
Just a note, a lot of people think metal "absorbs" oil...not possible.
I think evaporation is mistaken for absorption in that there may be less oil than what you put on the gun a few days before. If you put a layer of oil (especially BF CLP) and come back a week later, some of the oil, solvents, etc. will evaporate but they aren't absorbed. There might be a remaining (protective or not) film but it hasn't "soaked" into the metal.
Metal isn't porous.
But maybe it's just me...
.
Terminator2003
02-08-12, 09:04
i do a 50/50 mixture. what ive found best is to get you a little bottle that will fit in your pistol grip and fill it half way with oil and the other half with ATF, doing this will make 1 quart of each last you years, ive been on the same quarts for 1yr now and they still have over 3/4th the quarts left. it should look like this
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa273/SinlesSorrow/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_3466.jpg
Thank you for clarifying the mixture. That sounds simple enough! Is that an old Visine bottle you are using?
sinlessorrow
02-11-12, 15:33
Thank you for clarifying the mixture. That sounds simple enough! Is that an old Visine bottle you are using?
sure is i found the smallest one possible so it would fit my grip
-Spray a shot of Hoppe's MOLY oil Aerosol down barrel. Run 1 patch to wipe excess.
.
Does this leave oil in the barrel? I think it was Pat McNamara who warned against this as it can result in hydrostatic pitting when the gun is fired.
i do a 50/50 mixture. what ive found best is to get you a little bottle that will fit in your pistol grip and fill it half way with oil and the other half with ATF, doing this will make 1 quart of each last you years, ive been on the same quarts for 1yr now and they still have over 3/4th the quarts left. it should look like this
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa273/SinlesSorrow/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_3466.jpg
I lube with synthetic motor oil and my BCG looks like yours after 4-500rds. What advantage does the ATF add? Just curious as I have of others who use a mix rather than just oil.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
I like the bottle in the grip idea.. I'll look for a couple.. Mine probably won't have ATF in it however, FP-10 most likely. I do use ATF in my Toyota transmission.. works great.. :dirol: ;) Cheers.. Ron
sinlessorrow
02-11-12, 20:08
I lube with synthetic motor oil and my BCG looks like yours after 4-500rds. What advantage does the ATF add? Just curious as I have of others who use a mix rather than just oil.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
the ATF helps keep the motor oil from gumming up in cold temps, and gives it a little bit more lubricity to it
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