View Full Version : 1911 or Glock
Curious on the opinions of those out there...
If you had your choic of either a Glock 19 or a 1911 for your carry and defensive weapon, which would it be? The 1911 is the old reliable work horse of the US, but lacks in round count, tho has a large round that packs a punch. The Glock 19 has a higher round count, is more simple to operate, and requires less to maintain, but the 9mm round is not as hard hitting as the 45 acp, tho quality 9 ammo does a good job.
So in lies the question-Glock or 1911?
I don't even view those two as competitive options. They are about as far apart as you can get.
The only thing in common is that they are handguns.
You either want a steel framed hammer fired SAO .45 or you want a polymer high capacity striker fired 9mm. Are you reconsidering your Kimber purchase?
Straight Shooter
02-07-12, 14:30
Glock 21 .45ACP.
Problem solved.
IMO- You can not go wrong with a Glock 19, I don't care what you are buying it for. If a hand gun will do the job a Glock 19 will have you covered.
I'd suggest doing a lot more reading coupled with using the SEARCH feature above.
andrewcdub
02-07-12, 14:39
After months and months of getting info about handguns and rifles on this site I've learned a lot things. One is don't buy cheap. Two would be if you don't have the time, or dont want to invest the time into owning a 1911, then its not the gun for you. I want one for carry badly but honestly don't feel competent enough yet to be able to switch out parts or do small repairs like most can. So I just got an M&P45fs and called it a day. I know its not what the op was really talking about, but I say get what's comfortable for you and stick with it until its second nature.
Not reconsidering my Kimber purchase at all. I'm just meaning it as a general question. My first love was an still is the 1911 platform, but it takes longer to decide if I should take the 1911 or Glock out when I get up in the morning.
I work on my own guns and take care of whatever it is that I carry (i.e. complete take down and clean and oil every 2 weeks) I carried a 5" Springfield for couple years, then got into the 9mm round count thought process, now looking back-how many rounds do you new to carry for daily non-combat use?
F-Trooper05
02-07-12, 15:40
Is this thread really happening?
Follow your screen name and get an UZI.
U like head shots get a glock .40
Get the new Rock River Arms polymer 1911! It's the perfect compromise. Plastic like a Glock but it's a 1911 like a 1911! :jester:
What could go wrong?
I too had this same dilemma. Although, I could not completely disassemble the 1911. (Only field strip).
I started with a Springfield TRP then went to the Kimber Tactial Custom II (Aluminum Frame).
No issues with either gun. Both were flawless.
I went with the Glock 19. :eek:
I am a police officer with two bad wrecks under my belt, working 8-10 hours a day wearing a duty belt. I am a small stature male. The weight of the 1911's killed me.
My Doctor told me to go light or have back surgery by the time I retired. Go Figure. :nono:
In the end, if you do not have your health, what do you have :confused:
Just my .02 ;)
I'll take a Glock any day over a 1911. I like 1911's enough to look at, but never to carry or put to any hard use. Nothing against them, they just aren't my thing. If that works for you, that's fine by me. But I happen to believe that modern day polymer pistols (sans XD) make better weapons than old timers like 1911's. New design, better materials, less maintenance, what's not to like?
What can I say, I'm just a new school thinker kinda guy.
While a proper 1911 can easily be made reliable enough to carry, in todays day of modern ammo, its difficult to overlook high cap 9mm polymer pistols. 15-17 rounds is nice to have on standby...
I carry a Glock 19 RTF2 and I am a big 1911 enthusiast, and carried them for years. I also enjoy the weight savings carrying the Glock.
Buy the Glock, add a proper set of sights, a Vickers mag release and a Vickers extended slide stop and call it done.
Moltke Follow your screen name and get an UZI.
I have a Class 3 Full Auto Vector, hence the name.
And I ask this question, as I have been asked it before, and I question myself on it as well. Figured I'd throw it out there for other opinions.
Well then just carry that!
sierra 223
02-07-12, 17:21
Love 1911's and how easy they are to shoot. But for defense I would take the G19 everytime.
RancidSumo
02-07-12, 18:03
I expected this to be locked by now.
Is this thread really happening?
ROFL!!!! A little TOS-ish eh? ;)
1. Ammo difference is minimal; what matters is where you put it. Therefore. . . .
2. To save your life, carry whichever one you shoot best.
3. As for me, when the chips are down and it gets ugly in the big city, make mine a 1911.
Nephrology
02-07-12, 19:00
Ford or Chevy, guys?? Ford or Chevy?? Which one will get me from point A to point B? I can't figure it out!! Chevy does start with a C which is definitely after B....
Is this thread really happening?
BOOM! ....yes, it just happened....
U like head shots get a glock .40
Funniest shit I've read in awhile - I don't care whether he's joking or not. I truly el oh el'd. SIG LINE DIBS!
I started with a Springfield TRP then went to the Kimber Tactial Custom II (Aluminum Frame).
My gosh, please tell me you didn't sell the TRP?
....do you want to sell it? I'd be happy to take that strain off your back. Be safe, sir.
Love 1911's and how easy they are to shoot. But for defense I would take the G19 everytime.
I like Mexican food.
I carried a Glock 19 all day today (same as every day). I ate Mexican food twice (read location).
:sarcastic:
I have two of each, if I had to choose one I keep one of my Glocks based on round count alone.
I work on my own guns and take care of whatever it is that I carry (i.e. complete take down and clean and oil every 2 weeks)
May I ask how many rounds you shoot every 2 weeks?
Glock .40 is what works for me or a Beretta 96 A1 .40.
Next in line to try is going to be a SA XDM .40 Compact.;)
montanadave
02-07-12, 21:38
This taken directly from the Hi-Point Firearms website (http://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/handguns/handguns_45acp.html):
"Just want to say I own the 9mm and 45. I am a retired Police Chief and know my guns. The 9mm C-9 is now my CCW gun in a Houston holster. The 45 is my night stand gun."
S-Heath, Seiverville,TN
I think we're done here.
I like Mexican food.
Me too. We should hang out.
I work on my own guns and take care of whatever it is that I carry (i.e. complete take down and clean and oil every 2 weeks) I carried a 5" Springfield for couple years, then got into the 9mm round count thought process, now looking back-how many rounds do you new to carry for daily non-combat use?
REALLY, no kidding, every 2 weeks huh? I've carried the same Glock for 12 years and barely clean and lube it every year or about every 1500 rounds.
May I ask how many rounds you shoot every 2 weeks?
Average round count-100 to 200 per 2 weeks. Would there be a problem with routine maintenance? Maybe it's a little much, but just the way I am. Call it OCD??
Personal preference I'd say. Both are great weapons.
Nephrology
02-08-12, 05:05
Average round count-100 to 200 per 2 weeks. Would there be a problem with routine maintenance? Maybe it's a little much, but just the way I am. Call it OCD??
Pretty unnecessary.
Glocks are meant to be run almost entirely dry. There are a few select places that need a drop of oil (note: Drop. not gallon). Excessive oiling can actually induce malfunctions. particularly if it gets anywhere near the firing pin channel.
I carry a 1911 Series I Kimber Compact (circa 2001) and own a full size custom as well. I also own both of Jerry Kuhnhausen's books (and a few other 1911 books), two video's on 1911 maintenance, and tools to work on it.
1911's are hands down the best shooting pistols ever made but require more attention. They are also (a decent one at least) more than twice the cost of a Glock.
When you get a malfunction you will need to learn if it is an extractor issue or a magazine issue, or just worn springs..and which one, etc.....or maybe the ejector is loose or needs to be tuned. It could also be an ammo issue. You should replace, inspect, and know all this all this stuff BEFORE malfunctions start.
If you end up shoot several thousand rounds through it, this stuff WILL happen at some point unless you keep on top of it...and then maybe still happen.
You will need to understand how it works in intimate detail. That being said, I still am baffled some times and must refer to the sources available. Trying to make a 4" run anything less than full power reloads for IDPA has been an adventure.
I am currently looking at the M&P series and just held a M&P45c yesterday. It may become my new carry pistol. (nothing against Glocks, they just feel like a brick in my hands)
Based on personal experience I would NOT recommend anything but a full size gun. The experts have been saying that for years. I should have listened.
HalliganJoel
02-08-12, 08:58
IMO- You can not go wrong with a Glock 19, I don't care what you are buying it for. If a hand gun will do the job a Glock 19 will have you covered.
I agree. I have been first on the seen of many a GSW and several actual gunfights. The only for sure thing I have learned is if you really want to stop the fight: bring a rifle. IMHO- all pistol calibers are the same as far as combat effectivness. (this is a "in general" approach-clearly .380acp is NOT the same as 10mm). He who shoots first and most often typically wins the fight. Noone is in a hurry to get shot, so the more rounds you can hurl downrange the better.
*EDIT*- I just reread this and I'm not really sure if it is actually on the point of this thread. Sorry for the distraction. I suppose its more of an arguement for the capacity of the Glock 19*
"hard hitting" blah blah blah. Either works for me and I have four 19's and four 1911's
If you have to ask, get the glock.
The only people who should carry 1911s wont't ask if they should.
jmlshooter
02-08-12, 11:05
Since the objective is to have the BG explode into tiny, little pieces like the Death Star, I think it's a no-brainer to go with the .45.
The 9mm is basically a jazzed-up .22.
lord help me, I've hade more 1911's than glocks but for a true grab it off the rack and know the gun is very likely to function perfectly to include use of hollow points, I'd give the grab to a glock. Outside of finely tuned 1911's that cost about the same as 3 new glocks, 1911's can be spotty. I did have one old GI 1911 (stock unmodified) that fed everything and was very accurate despite rattling like a pile of cans in a box, but that is the exception. With so many companies making so many variations the 1911 is not what it once was when made by only colt or just a few companies to original GI specs. The term "tolerance stacking" comes to mind.
misanthropist
02-08-12, 11:52
If you have to ask, get the glock.
The only people who should carry 1911s wont't ask if they should.
That is sure the truth right there. If you're someone who should be carrying the 1911, you know damn well that you're good to go with it.
Unfortunately, the percentage of people who erroneously believe they're part of that group is very high, in my experience.
So if you have to ask, no, leave the 1911 alone.
If you know you are easily expert enough to take advantage of the 1911 and can deal with its shortcomings, go to a shooting environment where you will lose whatever competition you engage in because of the quality of the other shooters there.
Find one with a 1911, and ask that guy if you should carry it. He'll know.
Glock. Spend the rest of the money on ammo so you can shoot it well and it won't matter if you're firing a .22. 9mm is still a damn bullet.
I am with the posters that say you need to know what you're doing with a 1911, however not to the extremes that most are recommending. You do need to spend some $$ for a quality 4.25"+ gun. Kimber or Springfield (short of the pro or trp) is not going to cut it. This is the most important thing you can do as the every day ccw holder who wants to use this platform.
In my opinion, a well tuned quality 1911 is superior to a glock for putting accurate rounds on target quickly and for longer distance handgun shots (which usually isn't applicable for most civilians). The downside to that is the gun is more finicky, cannot go for thousands of rounds between cleanings, needs more lube/oil, doesn't perform as well in harsh sandy environments, needs more preventative tlc such as spring changes, extractor tension checks/adjustments, less rounds in the mag, etc (everything already stated in this thread). For most civilian ccw and hd needs though, you aren't exposing the gun to conditions nastier than rain, lint is the most dirt the gun will see outside of the range, and basic pm tips can be learned in a book. Most people here want guns that can survive a zombie invasion/halo jump into the Pakistani mountains with nothing but your shoelaces and your glock (and I'm cool with that bc zombie survival prep is a fun hobby), but realistically you are just carrying back and forth to work, putting the gun on the nightstand at night, and running errands around town. A quality 1911 will not fail any more frequently under these conditions than a glock or m&p.
In summary:
-Buy a quality commander or full size gun
-stock up on replacement recoil, firing pin, and mag springs and change once a year preventatively
-read a book on 1911 maintenance and learn how to check extractor tension, maybe even order a backup extractor already tuned to your gun so you can just switch them out and drive on if one loses tension
-train with it so manipulating the safety and malfunction drills become muscle memory
If you consider that to be too much hassle for what it is worth, then you are better off with a glock 19 in my opinion.
You do need to spend some $$ for a quality 4.25"+ gun.
You said the above followed by...
Kimber or Springfield
Dude, seriously?
I know some smiths that wont even work on a Kimbers.
jmlshooter
02-08-12, 15:58
Every time you call a gun design a "platform," a piece of my brain dies.
I'm more partial to sashimi. The sushi rice just fills me up and I like to gorge myself on raw fish, Sapporo and cold sake.
You said the above followed by...
Dude, seriously?
I know some smiths that wont even work on a Kimbers.
Read the whole sentence: "Kimber or Springfield (short of the pro or trp) is not going to cut it"
I'm more partial to sashimi. The sushi rice just fills me up and I like to gorge myself on raw fish, Sapporo and cold sake.
Nah, you can keep all that raw fish bait. :nono: Give me steak or Mexican.
The Dumb Gun Collector
02-08-12, 18:23
1911 for me.
1911s make ur targets xplodes. U only need 1 shot.
I carry my 1911 x2 daily (one for each hand) and dunt even bother with a magazine, just one in the chamber cause that's all u need.
Glocks are notoriously unreliable, just read the Glock thread on here.
:D
Read the whole sentence: "Kimber or Springfield (short of the pro or trp) is not going to cut it"
I guess that makes sense. Seemed to me you were equating Kimber with a quality 1911. :stop:
I really wonder where some of these opinions come from. Likely not from much personal first hand experience.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=96540
While a proper 1911 can easily be made reliable enough to carry, in todays day of modern ammo, its difficult to overlook high cap 9mm polymer pistols.
Question: Why is it that the 9mm benefits from modern advances and no one talks about other calibers also benefiting?
I hear all the time that a quality 9mm defensive round with current technology is just as good as ________ . Can one extrapolate and then say that the same modern technology applied to (for the sake of the argument) the .45 ACP makes it even better?
I am not trying to start a caliber war but merely trying to understand the logic behind the why when I read about the effectiveness of modern handgun ammo it is almost always in regards to the 9mm.
Is it just a matter of being good enough?
You said the above followed by...
Dude, seriously?
I know some smiths that wont even work on a Kimbers.
Who and why?
Question: Why is it that the 9mm benefits from modern advances and no one talks about other calibers also benefiting?
I hear all the time that a quality 9mm defensive round with current technology is just as good as ________ . Can one extrapolate and then say that the same modern technology applied to (for the sake of the argument) the .45 ACP makes it even better?
I am not trying to start a caliber war but merely trying to understand the logic behind the why when I read about the effectiveness of modern handgun ammo it is almost always in regards to the 9mm.
Is it just a matter of being good enough?
Seriously? :confused:
Because nobody questions the ballistics on the .45, which is generally why it's used in the argument made when discussing magazine capacity of the 1911. Of course .45 ammo has increased in effectiveness, now it leaves an even bigger hole and takes a limb off. ;)
9mm for years was argued to be anemic by the .45 crowd, and in some cases is was valid. The reason for the statement is simply stating the fact that it is no longer an issue when discussing calibers as modern 9mm is quite capable of getting the job done.
I enjoy a good chicken french.
Ingredients:
1/4 cup all-purpose flour, or as needed
salt and black pepper to taste
2 eggs, beaten
1 tablespoon white sugar
1 tablespoon grated Parmesan cheese
2 tablespoons olive oil
4 skinless, boneless chicken breast halves
1/4 cup butter
2 teaspoons minced garlic
1/4 cup dry sherry
1/4 cup lemon juice
2 teaspoons low-sodium chicken base
Directions
Mix together the flour, salt, and pepper in a shallow bowl. In another bowl, whisk beaten eggs, sugar, and Parmesan cheese until the mixture is thoroughly blended and the sugar has dissolved.
Heat olive oil in a large skillet over medium heat until the oil shimmers. Dip the chicken breasts into the flour mixture, then into the egg mixture, and gently lay them into the skillet. Pan-fry the chicken breasts until golden brown and no longer pink in the middle, about 6 minutes on each side. Remove from the skillet and set aside.
In the same skillet over medium-low heat, melt the butter, and stir in garlic, sherry, lemon juice, and chicken base. Bring the sauce to a simmer, and stir until smooth and slightly thickened, about 5 minutes. Be sure to dissolve any brown flavor bits from the bottom of the skillet as you stir. Return the chicken breasts to the sauce, and gently simmer until no longer pink in the center, about 15 minutes.
neither, taurus judge
damn i just ran out of popcorn......
Personally I carry a flare gun. People get FREAKED OUT when they see that flare light up the night sky. VROOOM!
This is why I love this site. You don't find good information like this elsewhere.
While I have my notebook out, let me know if I missed anything. 9mm is just a souped up .22, dual wielding makes sense, .45 hits people with the same terminal effects of a direct mortar round, and Judges are much nicer then 1911s / Glocks for a concealed carry gun.
At least I got a great chicken recipe...
The truth is, I don't carry either. I have an app on my iPhone that let's me call in Airstrikes. Handguns are for women.
Buckshot TX
02-08-12, 22:13
I have a few 1911s & I have a few G19s. Despite having a 36 year relationship with the 1911, I carry a G19 about 99 days out of 100.
The truth is, I don't carry either. I have an app on my iPhone that let's me call in Airstrikes. Handguns are for women.
You sir, just won this thread.
Who and why?
Take some time to read up on the topic here. I'm not going to rehash it, not going to try and convince you if you feel Kimber is a quality 1911. Good luck. :cool:
Take some time to read up on the topic here. I'm not going to rehash it, not going to try and convince you if you feel Kimber is a quality 1911. Good luck. :cool:
Will, Mike has had very unusual success with Kimber and I believe he bases his opinion of Kimber based upon his experience with them, which included never even having to change a spring for I believe it was over 50k rounds...
His finding run counter to many of our experiences with them.
Link to what I'm referring to above...
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=96540
Will, Mike has had very unusual success with Kimber and I believe he bases his opinion of Kimber based upon his experience with them, which included never even having to change a spring for I believe it was over 50k rounds...
His finding run counter to many of our experiences with them.
That's great, and I say congrats to him. We all know people that have had success with DPMS too, but those that know ARs, will avoid them for known reasons. People who have forgotten more about the 1911 in a day then I (and most others...) will ever know, Yam, LAV, et al, wouldn't own a Kimber if it was given to them I suspect when you read/hear their opinion on the brand in it's current state.*
So, all good to me, and I wish hm well with his Kimber product but a short look around will show it gets low marks/thumbs down by the vast majority of the BTDT 1911 types. ;)
The Warrior was on Yam's list for a short time as a good base gun, then he had to remove it due to QC issues he kept seeing.
* = yes, I know some of the early Kimbers were well liked and regarded as well made and reliable guns.
That's great, and I say congrats to him. We all know people that have had success with DPMS too, but those that know ARs, will avoid them for known reasons. People who have forgotten more about the 1911 in a day then I (and most others...) will ever know, Yam, LAV, et al, wouldn't own a Kimber if it was given to them I suspect when you read/hear their opinion on the brand in it's current state.*
So, all good to me, and I wish hm well with his Kimber product but a short look around will show it gets low marks/thumbs down by the vast majority of the BTDT 1911 types. ;)
The Warrior was on Yam's list for a short time as a good base gun, then he had to remove it due to QC issues he kept seeing.
* = yes, I know some of the early Kimbers were well liked and regarded as well made and reliable guns.
This is a factor that is often overlooked. The original Kimbers from Clackamus were solid 1911's. After that they pretty much turned to shit in my experience.
I'm with you, I certainly respect and LISTEN to the likes of LAV, Hackathorn, Yam etc (even though I thought he jumped the gun on the S&W E series before properly vetting it)
I'd wait for the Bren 10 to be released.
Link to what I'm referring to above...
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=96540
Can't say the man didn't do his research! friend of mine owns a Warrior, and his experience has been good (with a few trips to a smith, but that can happen with the best of 'em) and I found the gun a good shooter, but experience was limited.
The reasons people I trust recommend avoiding the brand are well known, I have read far more "My kimber sucks" and "Kimber CS sucks" threads (and people should ALWAYS consider the CS of a company when buying) then I have for any 1911, and heard more bitching from people on the brand then for any other.
That's my stance, a common stance among those I know/trust, but I respect his experience.
neither man hi point 9
50 flawless rounds thru mine just sayin
The truth is, I don't carry either. I have an app on my iPhone that let's me call in Airstrikes. Handguns are for women.
This is awesome. Is that app available for the Android?
The OP's question strikes me as an unusual choice comparing two very different platforms. Are you assuming the same caliber, as in a .45 Glock and the same in the 1911? Reason I ask is, some assumptions underlie the question. For instance, I assume you chose Glock as an option due to their legendary reliability (prior to Gen 4). But that reputation for reliability is built much more on their 9mm pistols than their .45's. So, if you are comparing a 9mm Glock to a .45 1911, I would find that odd because you're not comparing the same caliber handgun. OTOH, if you are comparing the .45 Glock to the 1911, then some of your assumptions about the Glock reliability will not hold true, i.e., their .45's while good, have not been as bomb-proof as their Gen 3's and earlier in 9mm.
Anyway, I'll play and answer the question asked.
If I get to choose the 1911, then I'd take a 1911.
I enjoy a good chicken french.
Ingredients:
1/4 cup all-purpose flour, or as needed
salt and black pepper to taste
2 eggs, beaten
1 tablespoon white sugar
1 tablespoon grated Parmesan cheese
2 tablespoons olive oil
4 skinless, boneless chicken breast halves
1/4 cup butter
2 teaspoons minced garlic
1/4 cup dry sherry
1/4 cup lemon juice
2 teaspoons low-sodium chicken base
Directions
Mix together the flour, salt, and pepper in a shallow bowl. In another bowl, whisk beaten eggs, sugar, and Parmesan cheese until the mixture is thoroughly blended and the sugar has dissolved.
Heat olive oil in a large skillet over medium heat until the oil shimmers. Dip the chicken breasts into the flour mixture, then into the egg mixture, and gently lay them into the skillet. Pan-fry the chicken breasts until golden brown and no longer pink in the middle, about 6 minutes on each side. Remove from the skillet and set aside.
In the same skillet over medium-low heat, melt the butter, and stir in garlic, sherry, lemon juice, and chicken base. Bring the sauce to a simmer, and stir until smooth and slightly thickened, about 5 minutes. Be sure to dissolve any brown flavor bits from the bottom of the skillet as you stir. Return the chicken breasts to the sauce, and gently simmer until no longer pink in the center, about 15 minutes.
This looks really good. Thanks. Appreciate the recipe.
If you have to ask, get the glock.
The only people who should carry 1911s wont't ask if they should.
I understand and agree, but I think that applies to just about any pistol.
OP, to me, everything starts with running the gun. No one can tell another person what works for them. Asking for opinions is fine, but it still isn't going to answer the question, which is what works for you. Only you running the gun, then doing your research will answer that question. Would I consider a pistol beyond the usual Glock, Sig,, Colt etc? No, but there are a lot of choices out there that people with experience have gotten and get good results with. The thing is that once you narrow down the choices, you have to run them to find out what you like and don't like about them. DocGKR in this thread or one similar gave the advice to someone new to get some training, fire some weapons, then decide. I wish I had done that before buying my first gun years ago, but no one gave me that advice.
I like both pistols for different reasons, but that's me and not you.
BloodMeridian
02-09-12, 13:16
Did you whittle your search down to these two guns because that's what you read or what people told you to buy? It may not be the case, but it sure sounds like it, especially since these guns are so different (assuming you're not looking at a Glock .45) If you have tried the myriad of pistols(different sizes, manufacturers, features), then you should be able to deduce what gun you should get on your own. If you need people to tell you which gun to get, then you haven't tested either enough. I am more empathetic to these questions when they involve rifles or shotguns because it's not as feasible (in general, more expensive and less choice) to test these types of firearms out. However, pistols are readily available to test at most dealer ranges. I suggest trying as many as you can, and if you truly are settled on the Glock and 1911, then keep renting them until you figure out which one you like better. Look at is as spending $25 or $30 here and there, so that you don't waste $500 or more on a gun that you don't like. Whatever advice you get on here is completely subjective. I'd tell you to go look at a M&P .40. Don't get caught up in the calibers either when comparing 9mm on up (Here's a pretty objective article on that topic: 9mm vs .45 (http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/9mm%20vs%2045.htm)) Look, I'm convinced that if you try both these guns out enough, you will know which one you like better, but if you've done all this and you really can't make up your mind, then get the Glock (because it's cheaper and cheaper to shoot), if you're looking at both in a .45, then get the 1911.
There is going to be an acceptable rate of return on any product made. And total number made will factor in. On 1911forum someone posted the AFTs reporting to the Bureau of Statistics for 2009. Kimber made over 78000 1911 pistols. Wilson about 2400 and Baer 2000. I have read here in last week of two Baers having to go back and over time numerous Wilsons. So if the rate of return is 2% that would mean about 15000 Kimbers. More numbers, more bitching. More bitching, more folks on the bandwagon with no first had experience. I will still contend that many are from new 1911 owners/shooters that create their issue.
No maker can make every gun run on virtually all ammo. Using the AR for example, you can be most successful by overgassing the shit out of the gun to run more variety.
When it comes to 1911s, all I care about is 230 gr Gold Dot and 230 ball. If you want a bullseye gun have it built. If you think you can run 185s to 230s of all shapes without at least a different set of mags then good luck.
I know good custom smiths too, and the reason I asked will for "who and why" is I haven't met one that will not take on a Kimber.
Bottom line is that this is many regurgitate what they have read on forums and pretty soon its Bigfoot sightings. To believe what I read, 80 - 95% of Kimbers suck and the others are an anamoly. If that was true after 80K guns a year they would have been out of business long ago.
Based on the internet I have many anamolys an have seen hundreds more. Not just in 1911s but ARs and Savage rifles. The factories must specially screen what they ship to Arizona.
These replacement schedules that get published by those that profit from opinion goes against much of what I and many in my group of instructors at agencys here have seen. The silliness of replacing followers every two years is well to say the least is one scuh ridiculous example.
CumbiaDude
02-09-12, 17:17
Kimber made over 78000 1911 pistols. (...) So if the rate of return is 2% that would mean about 15000 Kimbers.Probably just a typo, but just so we're clear: 2% of 78,000 is 1,560, not 15,000 :)
And in the spirit of this thread: I like brunettes, but blondes and redheads are fine too :)
Probably just a typo, but just so we're clear: 2% of 78,000 is 1,560, not 15,000 :)
And in the spirit of this thread: I like brunettes, but blondes and redheads are fine too :)
Redheads are the business. But my tastes lie with ink. If she's got ink, she's got my attention to be sure. Joanna Angel is one of the hottest women alive. Met her on my last trip to Vegas and nearly melted...
Honor First
H
This is fun thread to go through, ford v chevy; lexus v infiniti, ad infinitum! Get a .45 glock ! This will solve your .45 v 9mm, and your 1911 reliability issues and your high cap issue, get a glock 21 and your problem is solved, or glock 36 or a springfield 9mm emp....now red wine or white hmmm, coffee or tea...geeez.
RagweedZulu
02-09-12, 19:09
Glock 21 .45ACP.
Problem solved.
Yup. Carrying one right now that solves all your major issues. Backed up with a G30 for times with less cover garment.
Other members have alluded to this, but this is comparing apples and oranges. Two weapons that couldnt be more different, at two price points that couldn't be more different (usually).
crazymoose
02-09-12, 19:24
I carry a 1911 Series I Kimber Compact (circa 2001) and own a full size custom as well. I also own both of Jerry Kuhnhausen's books (and a few other 1911 books), two video's on 1911 maintenance, and tools to work on it.
1911's are hands down the best shooting pistols ever made but require more attention. They are also (a decent one at least) more than twice the cost of a Glock.
When you get a malfunction you will need to learn if it is an extractor issue or a magazine issue, or just worn springs..and which one, etc.....or maybe the ejector is loose or needs to be tuned. It could also be an ammo issue. You should replace, inspect, and know all this all this stuff BEFORE malfunctions start.
If you end up shoot several thousand rounds through it, this stuff WILL happen at some point unless you keep on top of it...and then maybe still happen.
You will need to understand how it works in intimate detail. That being said, I still am baffled some times and must refer to the sources available. Trying to make a 4" run anything less than full power reloads for IDPA has been an adventure.
I am currently looking at the M&P series and just held a M&P45c yesterday. It may become my new carry pistol. (nothing against Glocks, they just feel like a brick in my hands)
Based on personal experience I would NOT recommend anything but a full size gun. The experts have been saying that for years. I should have listened.
I agree with this. If you have a 1911 and want to put any real number of rounds through it, you have a couple of options. Either own multiples of the same gun, so you can keep shooting when one is at the smith, or learn to do some basic armorer stuff, like fitting/tuning extractors. Hell, even if you go with the latter option, I still advocate owning a backup.
RagweedZulu
02-09-12, 19:25
Other members have alluded to this, but this is comparing apples and oranges. Two weapons that couldnt be more different, at two price points that couldn't be more different (usually).
Hence the reason for melding them together to one basass platform that'll do everything but comb your hair. The fabulous G21.
CumbiaDude
02-09-12, 20:54
Joanna Angel is one of the hottest women alive. Met her on my last trip to Vegas and nearly melted...Hadn't heard of her before. Nice ;)
now red wine or white hmmm, coffee or tea...geeez.Only red wine, white is nasty. Coffee and tea are both good, but only black. Milk, sugar, honey, etc - never to be put into coffee. Also, Glock .45? Moar liek .45 GAP.
TacMedic556
02-09-12, 23:01
:help:
Mods: Please lock this thread. :big_boss:
what he said.
Too beaten into the ground. You will make your own journey. If you want you can search my conclusion under, "All Apologies Glock vs 1911".
I sold a Nighthawk and bought 4 Glocks.
madmike3668
02-09-12, 23:25
Yeah i'm in the process of selling off my 1911's and replacing them with glocks as well.
St.Michael
02-10-12, 00:47
Buy em both. Save the headache!
I agree, lock or delete this thread. I was only intending to ask a generalized question, not to have the great "Kimber is Junk" debate go on here. This was meant to ask other opinions on the subject of under normal use, if a Glock or 1911 would be preferred. Not to trade chicken recipes and other nonsense.
I hereby apologize for starting such a fiasco and would respectfully request that this be locked.
TacMedic556
02-10-12, 22:17
Well Kimbers are junk. I know first hand. Mine broke. A buddy on swat, his broke too. Another team mate, his jammed on literally everything.
Good 1911s are bad ass. Great guns. My Colt is reliable.
My new motto though:
"A 1911 is a gun you show your friends, a Glock is the gun you show your enemies".
Curious on the opinions of those out there...
If you had your choic of either a Glock 19 or a 1911 for your carry and defensive weapon, which would it be? The 1911 is the old reliable work horse of the US, but lacks in round count, tho has a large round that packs a punch. The Glock 19 has a higher round count, is more simple to operate, and requires less to maintain, but the 9mm round is not as hard hitting as the 45 acp, tho quality 9 ammo does a good job.
So in lies the question-Glock or 1911?
the glock pretty much beats the 1911 in every category except the trigger.
However, I carry my 1911 for one reason: I don't get a lot of range time anymore and I can shoot my 1911 far better than I can my Glock.
the glock pretty much beats the 1911 in every category except the trigger.
Ugh, here we go. :rolleyes:
Lock in 3,2,1...
TacMedic556
02-11-12, 09:42
The question is, which Glock do you want? I like the blue one...lower right.:lol:
http://christandkin.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/firearms-identification-guide.jpg
Ugh, here we go. :rolleyes:
Lock in 3,2,1...
so in a thread debating a Glock or a 1911, my opinion that the 1911 trigger is better than a Glock trigger is somehow taboo? :rolleyes:
I guess my opinion that having 18 rounds in a G17 is a bonus over 8 rounds for a .45 1911 is off limits as well? Holy shit, call the internet police and lock this thread down, Sally. :suicide2:
I agree, lock or delete this thread. I was only intending to ask a generalized question, not to have the great "Kimber is Junk" debate go on here. This was meant to ask other opinions on the subject of under normal use, if a Glock or 1911 would be preferred. Not to trade chicken recipes and other nonsense.
I hereby apologize for starting such a fiasco and would respectfully request that this be locked.
Not to be a smartass, But, maybe next time ,use the search button..As you found out, there more than a few people here, who are more than willing to take the ball and run with it, provided you make the mistake of throwing it to them..Chalk it up as a lesson learned..
so in a thread debating a Glock or a 1911, my opinion that the 1911 trigger is better than a Glock trigger is somehow taboo? :rolleyes:
What you said is "the glock pretty much beats the 1911 in every category except the trigger" which is both an ignorant statement, has nadda to do with the thread at hand, and just takes the thread further from the OP, and if you bothered to read the thread would see, it's not a debate on Glock vs 1911 thread.
Other forums will let worthless "glock vs 1911" threads go on forever, usually containing statements like "... glock pretty much beats the 1911 in every category except the trigger" go on forever, M4C, not so much.
One of the many reasons some like this forum over others. Taboo topic? No. Useful "debate" of any merit? No.
I'm done with this thread. Good luck to you. :cool:
so in a thread debating a Glock or a 1911, my opinion that the 1911 trigger is better than a Glock trigger is somehow taboo? :rolleyes:
I guess my opinion that having 18 rounds in a G17 is a bonus over 8 rounds for a .45 1911 is off limits as well? Holy shit, call the internet police and lock this thread down, Sally. :suicide2:
Those extra rounds make the gun harder to conceal. So there's a spot the 1911 wins other than just trigger.
The 1911 is inherently more accurate. The trigger also helps this.
Recoil in the same caliber is always milder in a 1911 of the same size due to the weight, which polymer fans decry as a weakness.
As will said, your statement is bunk. And is useless in this thread. We were trying to show how pointless this thread was via chicken recipes and tastes in women. That's basically what this thread is. Pick what works for you and shut the **** up about it. If we all shot the same thing to the same level, we'd only have one choice in firearm in each category. I for one like the variety.
Honor First
H
Pick what works for you and shut the **** up about it.
Poetry that is :agree:
Pick what works for you and shut the **** up about it.
Hit the nail on the head.
Poetry that is :agree:
I am nothing more than the Bastard Poet, my good Sir.
Honor First
H
1911's during its hay day was state of the art. But now with polymer pistols like the glock which can run non lubricated these pistols are state of the art. Don't get me wrong I sometimes carry a 3" 1911 which was sent to a local gunsmith for work just to be able to shoot reliably. Out of the box my Glock 22, I can shoot with confidence and accuratly, and more reliable that a 1911. I also have a Glock 17 and you can double tap due to controlability, and you cant beat the mag capacity. For CCW purposes 9mm is outstanding especially with Hornady tap or Corbon ammo. Yes I like the .45 but the ability to carry a Glock with the confidence that it wont ftf and mag capacity you cant pass a Glock up. 1911 is an outstanding weapon after you get it tuned to shoot reliably and its very accurate, but the time spent on getting it to shoot reliably an individual can hone thier skills with a Glock. This is why law enforcement choose
Glock. Plus 9mm is cheaper than .45.
1911's during its hay day was state of the art. But now with polymer pistols like the glock which can run non lubricated these pistols are state of the art. Don't get me wrong I sometimes carry a 3" 1911 which was sent to a local gunsmith for work just to be able to shoot reliably. Out of the box my Glock 22, I can shoot with confidence and accuratly, and more reliable that a 1911. I also have a Glock 17 and you can double tap due to controlability, and you cant beat the mag capacity. For CCW purposes 9mm is outstanding especially with Hornady tap or Corbon ammo. Yes I like the .45 but the ability to carry a Glock with the confidence that it wont ftf and mag capacity you cant pass a Glock up. 1911 is an outstanding weapon after you get it tuned to shoot reliably and its very accurate, but the time spent on getting it to shoot reliably an individual can hone thier skills with a Glock. This is why law enforcement choose
Glock. Plus 9mm is cheaper than .45.
Glocks have not been state of the art for a loooooooooong time, people that know 1911s, would not touch a 3" 1911 (cause they are not reliable which you appear to have found out from the sound of it) and in the hands of a good shooter, the 1911 still has no equal.
I hate to do this ('cause it's really not a 1911 vs Glock thread!!!) but Glock to me any many others = horrible ergos, horrible stock sites, horrible little crappy trigger, grip angle from hell, etc.
Stock, I hate 'em.
For me, only polymer gun that finally took me away from my beloved 1911s was the M&P, but that's another thread topic!
Glocks have not been state of the art for a loooooooooong time, people that know 1911s, would not touch a 3" 1911 (cause they are not reliable which you appear to have found out from the sound of it)
Pooh. My 3" kimber feeds everything from std-pressure Federal 165 grain Hydra Shok and std-pressure Remington 185 grain Sabers, to full - power 230s flawlessly. I haven't tried it with +p loads because Kimber recommends against it. I depend on it in case thugs appear.
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