View Full Version : Veterans - Please read.
As a disabled veteran of the United States Navy I find this very disheartening. Article here. (http://www.opposingviews.com/i/politics/thats-not-help-he-wanted)
"Corrigan telephoned what he believed to be the 'Military's Emotional Support Hotline' because he was depressed and had not slept for several days," the complaint states.
"The number Corrigan called was in fact the National Suicide Hotline. When he stated that he was a veteran, he was asked if he had firearms, to which he said yes. He said nothing about being suicidal or using a firearm or threatening anyone. After a short conversation, Corrigan hung up, turned off the phone, took prescribed sleeping medication, and went to bed.
"At approximately 4 a.m. in the morning of Feb. 3, 2010, Corrigan awoke because he heard his name being called over a bullhorn. There were floodlights outside his front and back doors and an estimated 8 police officers in the back yard and 20 in the front yard.
"Corrigan turned on his phone and found that Officer Fischer of the 5th District was calling him, asking him to come out, which he did at about 4:50 a.m., locking the door behind him. He was handcuffed and put in the back of a SWAT truck.
"When Officer John Doe I (upon information and belief, Officer John Doe I is Lieutenant Robert Glover) asked Corrigan for the key to his apartment, he informed the officer: 'There is no way I am giving you consent to enter my place.' Officer John Doe I stated: 'I don't have time to play this constitutional bullshit!' and ordered that Officers John Does II-V, members of the Emergency Response Team (ERT), enter the apartment."
Holy crap!
The VA is voluntarily giving up medical records to the ATF who is placing them on NICS checks no-goes. I know a friend who just got his notice from the VA and they are sending someone to his house because he has been diagnosed with PTSD and informing him of the Brady Act of 2008 and that he is not to have any firearms in the house as it will result in a Felony.
Here is the link to the Veteran's Disarmament Act signed in 2008.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2008/01/08/veterans-may-suffer-from-the-veterans-disarmament-act/http://www.veteranstoday.com/2008/01/08/veterans-may-suffer-from-the-veterans-disarmament-act/
No kidding. What is this world coming to?
And apparently the VA & ATF have removed approximately 150,000 veterans from NICS eligibility many without even the veterans knowing.
Denny Rehberg of Montana has cosponsored a bill that passed Congress last year (2011) to repeal the Veteran's Disarmament signed in 2008 because it is unconstitutional to lose your Second Amendment rights without so much as a trial or even being accused of any crimes. Sad.
Didnt local authorities state that it was difficult for them to attach a psychological report to Jared Lauchner? Its really sad to read that about a veteran and to see how easily they can be blacklisted. One could only hope that the officer who didn't have time for the Constitution has to explain it on the stand.
One could only hope that the officer who didn't have time for the Constitution has to explain it on the stand.
You mean the one he swore an oath to uphold?
Belmont31R
02-08-12, 01:20
"...greater state of readiness.."
http://youtu.be/6HH0SBZxC9M
AG Holder wants terrorist watch list, which requires ZERO oversight or due process, be applied to NICS.....
The DOJ working group concluded that the best course of action to address concerns about the ability of terrorists to obtain a firearm or a firearm or explosives license or permit would be to introduce legislation that would allow the Attorney General discretion to deny such transactions, if necessary.
http://www.gao.gov/htext/d09125r.html
My guess, is if you are AD mil, is to tell your current COC or medical support staff you want to seek an off site provider (if you are having a pyschiatric issue) and go from there. Under TRICARE you are allowed to seek off post care if you make it known you do not believe on post care if adequate. Don't be afraid to push buttons if you want to retain your rights. Unless you are really bat shit nuts an off post provider is not going to 'turn you in'. Never mention firearms to anyone unless you are seriously considering suicide and then in that case you do need to be helped. My grandpa shot himself in the head and I don't want to see any family go through that so get help if you need it at all costs. If you just need to talk with someone and its not to that point use your resources and NEVER mention firearms to anyone on post. The mil is extremely anti personally owned firearms, and its just someone you don't have to mention to anyone as long as you are living off post.
nobody knows
02-08-12, 02:11
Seems like O's under the radar gun control has started to take effect.
Moose-Knuckle
02-08-12, 03:39
Frog in pot?
(from another link Irish shared with me)
"In 2009, DHS came under fire for a 10-page report, “Right-wing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment,” which classified returning war veterans as potential threats. When government watchdogs submitted FOIAs for the sources used in preparing the report, they found that conspiracy websites and far-left outfits had been used, including the Southern Poverty Law Center, which branded the American Legion veterans organization as a “hate group.” Information also surfaced that the report had been rushed out over the objections of civil liberties officials. DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano was forced to apologize to veterans groups and withdraw the report."
http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/rightwing.pdf
Nah, not in America. . . :rolleyes:
ICANHITHIMMAN
02-08-12, 10:13
My best friend works there, its in Canaduage NY almost 90% of the councelers on the phones are vets. I'm going to forward this to him. I will say this he has told every one of the guys he knows if you ever call dont tell them you own guns.
Maybe I can get him to shed some more light on it, but I dought it. Im thinking the guy said more than what the news story said.
ICANHITHIMMAN
02-08-12, 10:14
Didnt local authorities state that it was difficult for them to attach a psychological report to Jared Lauchner? Its really sad to read that about a veteran and to see how easily they can be blacklisted. One could only hope that the officer who didn't have time for the Constitution has to explain it on the stand.
He wont have to explain shit then never do
This is sad and pathetic...:mad:
I will be passing this along.
He wont have to explain shit then never do
Civil lawsuit. We had a big newsletter thing go around the precinct about civil rights and even had some breifings about it because some jackass at work got sued. Most officers I work with are very pro civil rights but you get those select few....
The whole thing was that a citizen has the right to sue a LEO for a violation of civil rights.
Littlelebowski
02-08-12, 11:21
Holy crap!
The VA is voluntarily giving up medical records to the ATF who is placing them on NICS checks no-goes. I know a friend who just got his notice from the VA and they are sending someone to his house because he has been diagnosed with PTSD and informing him of the Brady Act of 2008 and that he is not to have any firearms in the house as it will result in a Felony.
Here is the link to the Veteran's Disarmament Act signed in 2008.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2008/01/08/veterans-may-suffer-from-the-veterans-disarmament-act/http://www.veteranstoday.com/2008/01/08/veterans-may-suffer-from-the-veterans-disarmament-act/
No kidding. What is this world coming to?
This is getting real bad and quietly so.
This is getting real bad and quietly so.
Absolutely. I don't give a shit if people think it's "tinfoil hat" or not but the fact of the matter is the .Gov would love to disarm a bunch of combat veterans who are coming back home from overseas.
The VA is required to quarterly report a list of anyone diagnosed with any mental condition that may disqualify them for firearm ownership.... Even if they already own them prior to the diagnosis/counseling.
It appears that merely seeking help gets you hemmed up.
It is a product of H.R. 2640 passed in late Dec 2007 and signed by GWB.
bill Overview
Co-sponsors:
Show Cosponsors (17)
Text:
Summary | Full Text
Status:
Occurred: Introduced Jun 11, 2007
Occurred: Referred to Committee View Committee Assignments
Occurred: Amendments (1 proposed) View Amendments
Occurred: Passed House Jun 13, 2007
Occurred: Passed Senate Dec 19, 2007
Occurred: Signed by President Jan 8, 2008
Last Action:
Jan 8, 2008: Became Public Law No: 110-180.
Related:
See the Related Legislation page for other bills related to this one and a list of subject terms that have been applied to this bill. Sometimes the text of one bill or resolution is incorporated into another, and in those cases the original bill or resolution, as it would appear here, would seem to be abandoned.
Votes:
Jun 13, 2007: This bill passed in the House of Representatives by voice vote. A record of each representative’s position was not kept.
Dec 19, 2007: This bill passed in the Senate with changes by Unanimous Consent. A record of each senator’s position was not kept.
Dec 19, 2007: A vote in the House of Representatives to agree with the other chamber's changes passed without objection. A record of each representative’s position was not kept.
Title I - Transmittal of Records
Section 101 -
Amends the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act to: (1) authorize the Attorney General to obtain electronic versions of information from federal agencies on persons disqualified from receiving firearms; (2) require federal agencies to provide such information to the Attorney General, not less frequently than quarterly; and (3) require federal agencies to update, correct, modify, or remove obsolete records and notify the Attorney General of such actions to keep the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) up to date. Requires the Attorney General to submit annual reports to Congress on the compliance of federal agencies with such reporting requirements.
Requires the Secretary of Homeland Security to provide the Attorney General, not less than quarterly, information for determining whether a person is disqualified under the federal criminal code from possessing or receiving a firearm for use in NICS background checks.
Requires the Attorney General to: (1) ensure that all NICS information received from federal agencies is kept accurate and confidential; (2) provide for the removal and destruction of obsolete and erroneous names and information from the NICS; and (3) work with states to encourage the development of computer systems for notifying the Attorney General when a court order has been issued or removed or a person has been adjudicated as mentally defective or committed to a mental institution. Prohibits federal agencies from providing a person's mental health or commitment information to the Attorney General if: (1) such information has been set aside or expunged or the person involved has been fully released or discharged from all mandatory treatment, supervision, or monitoring; (2) the person has been found to no longer suffer from a mental health condition or has been found to be rehabilitated; or (3) the adjudication or commitment is based solely on a medical finding of disability without a hearing and there has been no adjudication under the federal criminal code of mental defectiveness.
Requires all federal agencies that adjudicate the mental health of individuals or commit such individuals to a mental institution to: (1) establish a program to allow such individuals to apply for relief from the disabilities to firearms ownership resulting from such adjudications or commitments; and (2) provide oral and written notice to any such individuals of the effect of a mental health adjudication or commitment on their ability to purchase or transport a firearm and their right to apply for relief from disabilities.
Man o' man am I glad I didn't seek continuing care from the VA after I left the Navy. If I ever do have a problem, I'm definitely NOT seeking treatment from the VA in the future.
QuietShootr
02-08-12, 12:23
Christ on a pancake.
ETA: Now that they're doing this, how long do you think it'll be before they start using insurance company and pharmacy records to NICS-block people? Depressed? **** you, you're now a 2nd class citizen. Insomniac? Same thing. Epileptic? Can't drive a car, you surely can't be trusted to own a gun.
Ain't this a daisy?
CarlosDJackal
02-08-12, 12:26
I hope every Veteran takes heed and not vote this pos scumbag and his lapdog holder back into power.
Anyone who does help vote him back into power deserves what they get. This is the type of shit that really pisses me off!! :mad:
The veteran is suing the department according to the article. I Hope he wins.
Edit: I linked the same article. :suicide:
Absolutely. I don't give a shit if people think it's "tinfoil hat" or not but the fact of the matter is the .Gov would love to disarm a bunch of combat veterans who are coming back home from overseas.
I agree. But i'm also kinda confused. Im trying to figure out why they target vets like the above incident, and also sign a bill handing out govt. subsidies to police depts to hire vets....seems to contradict each other.
Either way, the linked article is disturbing.
Here is the complaint - http://www.scribd.com/doc/80941044/Matthew-Corrigan-v-District-of-Columbia
After reading through the complaint it sounds like they trashed his place like they would on a typical drug raid. Being locked up for 16 days, 3 of his own volition at the VA, and coming home to an unlocked home, dead pets, your dog and guns stolen while your entire house has been turned inside out I'd be incredibly ****ing pissed.
Here is the complaint - http://www.scribd.com/doc/80941044/Matthew-Corrigan-v-District-of-Columbia
After reading through the complaint it sounds like they trashed his place like they would on a typical drug raid. Being locked up for 16 days, 3 of his own volition at the VA, and coming home to an unlocked home, dead pets, your dog and guns stolen while your entire house has been turned inside out I'd be incredibly ****ing pissed.
Just read the document linked. WOW.
I hope this guy wins, and i hope he wins BIG. People need to be fired over this (and prosecuted to the fullest)
QuietShootr
02-08-12, 15:37
Here is the complaint - http://www.scribd.com/doc/80941044/Matthew-Corrigan-v-District-of-Columbia
After reading through the complaint it sounds like they trashed his place like they would on a typical drug raid. Being locked up for 16 days, 3 of his own volition at the VA, and coming home to an unlocked home, dead pets, your dog and guns stolen while your entire house has been turned inside out I'd be incredibly ****ing pissed.
Incredibly ****ing pissed. Yeah. That'd be one way to go.
And in case you've forgotten you probably fit the profile.
http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/5083/fbiflyer.jpg
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/844/fbimcsoterroristflyerfr.jpg
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/379/fbimcsoterroristflyerba.jpg
Inline with what Irish posted above, lets not forget what happens to citizens accused of being terrorists now thanks to the NDAA.
Scary stuff.
ICANHITHIMMAN
02-08-12, 18:34
I spoke to my buddy at the VA he informed his supervisor, they are looking into it, pulling the record on their end to see what was said. I'm sure they cant tell me anything but they are concerned at what happned none the less.
Just remember if you own guns dont tell any one no one ever said you had to.
SeriousStudent
02-08-12, 18:53
I'd have someone's balls thumbtacked to my desk, so I could smack them with a hammer whenever I got pissed.
And I'd stay pissed for a long damn time.
I cannot begin to imagine the countles hours that so many veterans have spent, helping their fellow service members. I am sure that many of you have done that, offering a listening ear and a helpful word to our brothers and sisters.
So to imagine some idiotic toad, under the color of office, to do something like this, makes me so very, very angry.
Somebody better produce a damn search warrant, and it had better be air tight.
Informal support networks are always the best. But what about fellows like this, that just have no one they can turn to locally?
I truly hate betrayal. :(
CarlosDJackal
02-08-12, 21:27
I hope he wins his lawsuit. I also hope he named Shinsenki as a defendant as well - he's as culpable as anyone else as far as I'm concerned.
What is realy disturbing about this case is it will make otehr Veterans think twice before they consider seeking help. And the number of PTSD-related suicides will only grow.
Over the past few years I have heard all sorts of pleas made by the Commanding Generals for those who are contemplating suicide to seek help. With this they pretty much signed the death warrant of more than a few Veterans.
Smuckatelli
02-09-12, 09:32
The only way the VA gets funded is if they have patients...many patients. PTSD is the golden egg, the first time that you visit them they give you a battery of questions design to draw out PTSD.
I had hearing aids while on active duty, they shit the bag about 3-4 years after retirement. Tomas was DX with leukemia around that time so I didn't bother getting the aids replaced; I had other priorities.
I scheduled an appointment last summer to get replacement aids. The first thing that they try to draw out of you are symptoms of PTSD....doesn't matter why you are there. The next thing they do is try to convince you that the VA should be your primary care provider. They even tried to pull the childhood cancer crap into the mix (I figured that it would not be a good idea to tell them that shooting was my theraphy). I answered all of the questions and I didn't get dx with PTSD. I do have to go there once a year to get a physical. I eventually received my hearing aids.
My buddy, another retired 03 Gunny has a friend that spent 8 years in the Corps...after Desert Storm and before 9/11. He was dx'd with PTSD by the VA and is now receiving 70% disability.
QuietShootr
02-09-12, 10:15
rather than be subjected to this?
I wouldn't give a shit if I were seeing little Taliban climbing out of my toothpaste tube, I wouldn't call the VA or anyone else after shit like this happens.
http://valawyersweekly.com/2012/02/09/feds-pursue-suicidal-vet/
RogerinTPA
02-09-12, 12:09
This is as ****ed up as I've ever heard of. Vets would be better off counseling each other, rather than the VA under the current Administration. Way to go VA for treating Vets who've put their asses on the line voluntarily for this great nation. This pisses me off to no end. :mad:
And for the folks who think this is just a Veterans issue and it does not apply to them - Don't forget that Obama wants to make sure all medical records are recorded in digital format held in a central place.
Do you have or have ever had depression? Been given any kind of drugs by your doctor ever in your life that would be considered mood altering? Guess what is coming for you too.
Read some of the immediate replies on B5 - I really have no idea why this isn't being reported a lot more.
ICANHITHIMMAN
02-09-12, 23:02
And for the folks who think this is just a Veterans issue and it does not apply to them - Don't forget that Obama wants to make sure all medical records are recorded in digital format held in a central place.
Do you have or have ever had depression? Been given any kind of drugs by your doctor ever in your life that would be considered mood altering? Guess what is coming for you too.
Isnt this already done? After you make NCO or have a certian amount of years in? Your records are transfered to microfish.
Isnt this already done? After you make NCO or have a certian amount of years in? Your records are transfered to microfish.
Yes the military does send your med records to HRC when you ETS. I am referring to the civilian population record keeping. Folks that might not think this same method is not going to apply to them... you know that don't think that big brother isn't looking to infer medical treatment records to possibly take their firearms away too.
Belmont31R
02-10-12, 00:16
http://wethearmed.com/general-firearms-discussion/well-rumors-of-my-demise/
ICANHITHIMMAN
02-10-12, 07:40
Yes the military does send your med records to HRC when you ETS. I am referring to the civilian population record keeping. Folks that might not think this same method is not going to apply to them... you know that don't think that big brother isn't looking to infer medical treatment records to possibly take their firearms away too.
Ok sorry it went over my head
QuietShootr
02-10-12, 07:50
http://wethearmed.com/general-firearms-discussion/well-rumors-of-my-demise/
Jesus H. Christ.
Cincinnatus
02-10-12, 09:03
The stories in the links so far and that of the OP point out the disconcerting fact that we are now living in a post-Constitutional country. It seems as though we are free and have rights and freedom, but that is only until government turns its Eye of Sauron on you, burning away your illusions of freedom and justice, doing whatever it takes to nail you. Innocent until proven gulity? Hah! Our "freedom" is only a factor of being one among many; when you are noticed, it's over.
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss301/winfield813/sauron.jpg
LowSpeed_HighDrag
02-10-12, 09:05
Tha tragic thing is that I know many vets and AD guys who are afraid to seek help because of the consequences. Admitting you need help is not a weakness, but its almost treated as an admission of guilt these days. So sad.
Never put it past the .gov to capitalize on anything, especially when they can take rights in the name of keeping everyone else safe.
QuietShootr
02-10-12, 09:08
Tha tragic thing is that I know many vets and AD guys who are afraid to seek help because of the consequences.
And rightfully so, now. The blood of every person who suck-starts a Glock because of PTSD is on their hands.
ICANHITHIMMAN
02-10-12, 11:16
Tha tragic thing is that I know many vets and AD guys who are afraid to seek help because of the consequences. Admitting you need help is not a weakness, but its almost treated as an admission of guilt these days. So sad.
Never put it past the .gov to capitalize on anything, especially when they can take rights in the name of keeping everyone else safe.
Man that's a great point I know a lot of guys in that position
I could have sworn I saw recent legislation that was passed protecting the 2nd Amendment rights of Veterans.
QuietShootr
02-10-12, 12:00
I could have sworn I saw recent legislation that was passed protecting the 2nd Amendment rights of Veterans.
Well this isn't about law, it's about patient safety. That trumps that ratty old piece of paper.
I could have sworn I saw recent legislation that was passed protecting the 2nd Amendment rights of Veterans.
You did Iraqgunz. The bill passed the Congress and is Co-Sponsored by Denny Rehberg from Montana. But it still has to pass Senate (& signed by POTUS)... and then implemented, enforced and overseen by the gun grabbing administrations.
The BATFE has already banned more than 150,000 veterans from owning firearms. A person I know that was recently notified told me that having even a bullet will result in felony charges. If the VA & BATFE decide you don't get to own firearms there are no formal charges, no way to appeal, no judge or jury to adjudicate or dismiss.. nothing. You get a letter & someone comes over to your home and tells you turn em in.
Even with legislation that has passed Congress the VA in conjunction with the BATFE are still banning firearms... it is only a matter of time before they get to all veterans to be quite honest.
Belmont31R
02-10-12, 12:42
I thought the old standard was you had to be declared by a court as mentally incompetent OR involuntarily committed to a mental institution.
I don't see how its legal for them to just create a list and then tell people they no longer have right to exercise a right listed in the BOR with zero due process. WTF is this? Just create lists, and tell people their rights are gone? F- them!
When Holder took office he said he wanted the No Fly List to apply to NICS. This just sounds like a version of that but 'just for vets' in collusion with the VA, who as noted, do everything they can to pin PTSD on people. It also ties in with Napolitano's DHS report on returning vets being a domestic threat.
Thank you for posting those links. As screwed up as the situations are it provides me with more ammunition for things in the works going on behind the scenes.
Moose-Knuckle
02-10-12, 15:33
http://wethearmed.com/general-firearms-discussion/well-rumors-of-my-demise/
He's lucky they didn't give him the Randy Weaver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge) or Jose Guerena (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jose_Guerena_shooting) treatment. And no, I'm not kidding in the least.
platoonDaddy
06-15-12, 05:35
Following this story, is just WRONG what they did to this guy. Friggin WRONG. Government running amok!
Part I: http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/guns/2012/may/23/miller-iraq-vet-brutalized-over-guns-dc/
Part II and III links (Part IV hasn't been published):
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/guns/2012/may/28/miller-swat-rampage-destroys-iraq-vets-home-over-g/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/guns/2012/jun/5/miller-iraq-vet-jailed-two-weeks-guns/
If what is written in the vetrans complaint is true then he deserves a large settlement and an apology. I've read many lawsuits/complaints, some of them with me as defendant and I will say there is often a complete opposite side to the story. I suggest the truth may lie somewhere in between.
Why would he have agreed to a 3 day hold? Once he did this I suspect he is and forever will be a prohibited person. Can one of you square me away on that? I've read the form dozens of times but do not remember the question exactly, I know I've always answered no to it.
What did they charge him with? Was the crime possession of the firearms because he was in D.C.?
My best friend works there, its in Canaduage NY almost 90% of the councelers on the phones are vets. I'm going to forward this to him. I will say this he has told every one of the guys he knows if you ever call dont tell them you own guns.
Maybe I can get him to shed some more light on it, but I dought it. Im thinking the guy said more than what the news story said.
One of the things dispatchers and cops and I suspect telephone hotline operators are trained to do is ask about weapons, any weapons. Just keep that in mind. They will ask you. You don't have to answer them or be honest if you do.
He wont have to explain shit then never do
Civil lawsuit. We had a big newsletter thing go around the precinct about civil rights and even had some breifings about it because some jackass at work got sued. Most officers I work with are very pro civil rights but you get those select few....
The whole thing was that a citizen has the right to sue a LEO for a violation of civil rights.
Again if what was written this guy deserves a big freaking check.
Incredibly ****ing pissed. Yeah. That'd be one way to go.
Tha tragic thing is that I know many vets and AD guys who are afraid to seek help because of the consequences. Admitting you need help is not a weakness, but its almost treated as an admission of guilt these days. So sad.
Never put it past the .gov to capitalize on anything, especially when they can take rights in the name of keeping everyone else safe.
I was thinking the same thing, this is going to have the opposite effect. Instead of helping to save people vets who need help are not going to ask for it and people will end up dying who did not need to because they were afraid to ask for help because they did not want to loose their guns and gun rights.
I have been an NRA member since my teens and bought a life membership at half price as a JR member, I don't know if the age cut off was under 18 or under 21 but it has been more than half my life and I am a strong gun right supporter. I'm a product of Red Dawn. Movies like that really hit home to me. I was 13 when that came our. I think it was the first PG 13 movie.
Irish, thanks for posting this and bringing it to our attention. I am also a disabled vet. The VA did not try to ask me about PTSD but my American Legion and DAV rep tried to talk me into it. I told them I did not have PTSD, he ****ing put me in for it anyway but it was denied. I was also a kid at the time. Today I would have told him off, then I just nodded my head and said yes sir. Make sure to CY6 and be well informed.
I just read the first two articles linked to.
Following this story, is just WRONG what they did to this guy. Friggin WRONG. Government running amok!
Part II and III links (Part IV hasn't been published):
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/guns/2012/may/28/miller-swat-rampage-destroys-iraq-vets-home-over-g/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/guns/2012/jun/5/miller-iraq-vet-jailed-two-weeks-guns/
What a cluster ****. He was not treated well. I imagine the reason to enter the house was some belief there was an explosive risk because of the gas smell. I think they will be okay up until that point. The rest of it is going to be trouble. Once the "gas smell" and it's associated risks were squared away they should have left the building and secured it. To get back in they should have had a warrant.
I am glad to see the weapons charges were dropped, BUT he did break the law by having the guns in D.C. and he should have known better. Still he was treated like shit and should not have been.
I could have sworn I saw recent legislation that was passed protecting the 2nd Amendment rights of Veterans.
The original Bill to protect Veterans 2A rights by Senator Burr of NC (S. 3167) died in committee Jun 19, 2008 . http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/110/s3167
Senator Burr came back with S. 669, which died in committee May 21, 2009. http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/111/s669#
Back for Round III, Burr introduced S. 1707 for the 112th Congress, which is still only in "introduced" status. Govtrack gives it 3% odds of passing. The so-called "pro-2A" Harry Reid allowed it to die each time before, so odds are he'll do it again this time. :( http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/s1707
A veterans protection amendment by my Senator (Tom Coburn (R) OK), was also killed in March 25. 2010. http://blog.newsok.com/politics/2010/03/25/another-coburn-amendment-killed-by-senate/ (FWIW, Coburn was the one who got us CCW in national parks)
Denny Rehberg's efforts were passed from H.R. 1898 to H.R. 2349, which passed the House on Oct 11, 2011. This bill has not passed the Senate and is unlikely to with Rehberg's language intact. http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hr2349
I know of no more recent efforts that have gained any traction. The VA and BATFE have twisted the word "adjudicated" to mean whatever they say it means, not the legally accepted definition.
In case you haven't figured it out by now my military bretheren, the citizens we protect are afraid of us. They love to cheer us in parades and make like good little patriots in the press and on their bumpers, but deep down, they'd prefer to keep us at arms length and disarmed until it's time to set us upon the enemies of democracy. :(
In case you haven't figured it out by now my military bretheren, the citizens we protect are afraid of us. They love to cheer us in parades and make like good little patriots in the press and on their bumpers, but deep down, they'd prefer to keep us at arms length and disarmed until it's time to set us upon the enemies of democracy. :(
I have no doubt that there are some civs who think this way, but from the looks of it to me, it seems it's the gov that is bringing down this legislation (if you can even call it legislation).
davidjinks
06-15-12, 13:32
You don't roll EOD/Bombsquad because of a gas smell. They got called because the guy is a veteran of OIF. That's why they were rolled. That's the only reason they were called.
I just read the first two articles linked to.
What a cluster ****. He was not treated well. I imagine the reason to enter the house was some belief there was an explosive risk because of the gas smell. I think they will be okay up until that point. The rest of it is going to be trouble. Once the "gas smell" and it's associated risks were squared away they should have left the building and secured it. To get back in they should have had a warrant.
I am glad to see the weapons charges were dropped, BUT he did break the law by having the guns in D.C. and he should have known better. Still he was treated like shit and should not have been.
Littlelebowski
06-15-12, 13:46
You don't roll EOD/Bombsquad because of a gas smell. They got called because the guy is a veteran of OIF. That's why they were rolled. That's the only reason they were called.
That and extreme fear/overreaction on the part of blue when green is involved.
davidjinks
06-15-12, 13:53
Well...I didn't want to come right out and say that...but yes, 100% right you are sir!
That and extreme fear/overreaction on the part of blue when green is involved.
In case you haven't figured it out by now my military bretheren, the citizens we protect are afraid of us. They love to cheer us in parades and make like good little patriots in the press and on their bumpers, but deep down, they'd prefer to keep us at arms length and disarmed until it's time to set us upon the enemies of democracy. :(
I think youre confused between a civilian and a politician. I'm a civilian who isn't afraid of you or your guns and knives and bats or what ever you want to own. Im also 100% certain that most other rational people in this country feel the same. Yes there is a segment of idiots out there who think weapons and defensive skills are a threat, but those people feel that way about all of us, not just ex military guys.
The biggest threat to OUR freedoms are politicians. I don't see a single bill written by and voted on by mere citizens. It's the politicians who are stoned out of their empty gords on power that are afraid of us. Whether we are active or retired military, retired LEO, plane Jane person doesn't matter. If you think that their power over your life should be limited to what a piece of paper states you are enemy #1. The sooner people realize that and stop the counterproductive segmentation the sooner we can actually do something about it.
I think youre confused between a civilian and a politician. I'm a civilian who isn't afraid of you or your guns and knives and bats or what ever you want to own. Im also 100% certain that most other rational people in this country feel the same. Yes there is a segment of idiots out there who think weapons and defensive skills are a threat, but those people feel that way about all of us, not just ex military guys.
The biggest threat to OUR freedoms are politicians. I don't see a single bill written by and voted on by mere citizens. It's the politicians who are stoned out of their empty gords on power that are afraid of us. Whether we are active or retired military, retired LEO, plane Jane person doesn't matter. If you think that their power over your life should be limited to what a piece of paper states you are enemy #1. The sooner people realize that and stop the counterproductive segmentation the sooner we can actually do something about it.
You seem to have a lot of faith in the citizenry of this country. The same citizenry that elects the likes of Reid, Pelosi, Obama, Mittens, etc. ???
You don't roll EOD/Bombsquad because of a gas smell. They got called because the guy is a veteran of OIF. That's why they were rolled. That's the only reason they were called.
Where are you getting your information? The plaintiff's complaint. I am being polite when I tell you they are quite often full of complete bull shit. None of us here knows what he said to the hotline operator. And seriously how do you get the Suicide Hotline when you want a Veterans Hotline? I smell bullshit there.
Well...I didn't want to come right out and say that...but yes, 100% right you are sir!
That is again a Huge assumption. The person writing the articles had an agenda. I happen to agree with most of it but he clearly has a pro gun agenda something I am all about and have been all my life.
I thought the best information camefrom the upstairs neighbor. Again unless there is a hotline recording we will never know what was said by the 1stSgt.
Why would the hotline person make a false call to police? Has it happened before? If not then I'd say their information should be taken as highly credible. Why would they lie. Just doesn't make sense.
There are some serious issues with what appears to have happened especially the cluster at Jail.
Littlelebowski
06-15-12, 21:20
It's not a leap to imagine his statement of "yes, I have guns in my home" being translated into "vet with a gun" panic ensuing at an avowedly anti gun big city PD.
Anyone know if EOD went right away? Any further word on the call to the hotline?
If the cop thought he had a huge propane IED I could understand a smart ass comment about the constitution. If not that is a big issue. I can see a valid argument/defense of the search under exigent sircumstances, like a propane IED. BUT, the repeated searches are going to be, and should be, a huge issue.
I hope every Veteran takes heed and not vote this pos scumbag and his lapdog holder back into power.
Anyone who does help vote him back into power deserves what they get. This is the type of shit that really pisses me off!! :mad:
While I share your sentiment, it was GWB who signed this into law! Neither political party is American...
Holy crap!
The VA is voluntarily giving up medical records to the ATF who is placing them on NICS checks no-goes. I know a friend who just got his notice from the VA and they are sending someone to his house because he has been diagnosed with PTSD and informing him of the Brady Act of 2008 and that he is not to have any firearms in the house as it will result in a Felony.
Here is the link to the Veteran's Disarmament Act signed in 2008.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2008/01/08/veterans-may-suffer-from-the-veterans-disarmament-act/http://www.veteranstoday.com/2008/01/08/veterans-may-suffer-from-the-veterans-disarmament-act/
No kidding. What is this world coming to?
Well, send cowards to represent you in government, and you can expect that they will come to fear you, and a fearful coward, with the power to make law, is a very predictable creature...
I don't see how its legal for them to just create a list and then tell people they no longer have right to exercise a right listed in the BOR with zero due process. WTF is this? Just create lists, and tell people their rights are gone? F- them!
If you own a monopoly on the use of force, and violence, you can do as you wish.
Vets, the lesson here is keep your mouth shut! And whatever you do, don't allow your sons to serve these people as their soldiers, saliors, airman, or marines.
platoonDaddy
06-16-12, 05:49
Based on the articles in the Washington Times the DC Police certainly abused Corrigan rights as a citizen.
Quote:
"When I was secured, a warrant could have been obtained," Sgt. Corrigan said. "When I offered not to give my consent to enter my place, a warrant could have been obtained. When the first weapon in plain view was allegedly seen, a warrant could have been obtained. ... During each of these incidents what was the exigency that prevented a warrant from being obtained?"
Quote:
"The conditions in protective custody turned out to be worse than among the general population, he said."
http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/matthew-corrigan/
ICANHITHIMMAN
06-16-12, 06:20
You don't roll EOD/Bombsquad because of a gas smell. They got called because the guy is a veteran of OIF. That's why they were rolled. That's the only reason they were called.
I agree with this statement intent 100%. When my wife was in the police academy they were specifically warned by the cadre to watch out for ex-military. They said we are dangerous and that they should always call for backup. If that’s not paranoia I don’t know what is, in their mind (the uninformed) there is no difference between a Navy engineman and a recon Marine and apparently we are all able to kick ass.
ICANHITHIMMAN
06-16-12, 06:25
[QUOTE=usmcvet;1328429]Any further word on the call to the hotline?
QUOTE]
I asked my buddy and I sent him all of the news articals but he has not said anything about it yet.
Vets, the lesson here is keep your mouth shut! And whatever you do, don't allow your sons to serve these people as their soldiers, saliors, airman, or marines.
This has me a little intrigued. Is this the general consensus among you vets? Is this your advice to anyone who wants to serve? Or would you tell them to serve, get the experience, but don't make a career out of this?
Littlelebowski
06-16-12, 08:27
This has me a little intrigued. Is this the general consensus among you vets? Is this your advice to anyone who wants to serve? Or would you tell them to serve, get the experience, but don't make a career out of this?
You're missing the point. He was saying not to talk to counselors about any problems resulting from service.
You're missing the point. He was saying not to talk to counselors about any problems resulting from service.
Nope. Didn't mss anything.
First, it was an honest question. Not leading or trying to paint anyone in a corner.
Second, you reply is true of his first sentence. I already got that. His second sentence is what caught my attention and made me ask my question.
Littlelebowski
06-16-12, 08:41
Ok, I see what you were asking. It just depends. If it is still fun, stay in. Some folks like myself were backed into a corner and told to recruit or be a drill instructor. I got out because I knew I'd hate either of those jobs.
Thanks for the feedback LL. It does make sense.
I might just go ahead and make a separate thread on the subject to more clearly define what I'm asking...and so that I don't threadjack here.
Based on the articles in the Washington Times the DC Police certainly abused Corrigan rights as a citizen.
Quote:
"When I was secured, a warrant could have been obtained," Sgt. Corrigan said. "When I offered not to give my consent to enter my place, a warrant could have been obtained. When the first weapon in plain view was allegedly seen, a warrant could have been obtained. ... During each of these incidents what was the exigency that prevented a warrant from being obtained?"
Quote:
"The conditions in protective custody turned out to be worse than among the general population, he said."
http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/matthew-corrigan/
I completely agree.
I agree with this statement intent 100%. When my wife was in the police academy they were specifically warned by the cadre to watch out for ex-military. They said we are dangerous and that they should always call for backup. If that’s not paranoia I don’t know what is, in their mind (the uninformed) there is no difference between a Navy engineman and a recon Marine and apparently we are all able to kick ass.
I'm a small town police chief here in Vermont. I have nothing but respect and thanks for our military and our veterans. My officers feel the same.
Littlelebowski
06-16-12, 21:16
Well said, USMCvet.
I completely agree.
I'm a small town police chief here in Vermont. I have nothing but respect and thanks for our military and our veterans. My officers feel the same.
Respect applies in two ways - being politely respectful, and respecting the fact that many in the military are trained to fight. Handing both isn't mutually exclusive, if anything the former should be a given, and letting one's guard down in any uniformed role is asking for trouble anyway.
Respect applies in two ways - being politely respectful, and respecting the fact that many in the military are trained to fight. Handing both isn't mutually exclusive, if anything the former should be a given, and letting one's guard down in any uniformed role is asking for trouble anyway.
No kidding? Thanks for the insight. If someone is a problem they're dealt with. Being a "veteran" doesn't make someone a problem. I have arrested all kinds of people. I've never pre judged anyone. If they need. To be arrested they are.
Littlelebowski
06-16-12, 21:56
Respect applies in two ways - being politely respectful, and respecting the fact that many in the military are trained to fight. Handing both isn't mutually exclusive, if anything the former should be a given, and letting one's guard down in any uniformed role is asking for trouble anyway.
Does that mean politely knocking at a veteran's door or going "tactical?"
This has me a little intrigued. Is this the general consensus among you vets? Is this your advice to anyone who wants to serve? Or would you tell them to serve, get the experience, but don't make a career out of this?
Its pretty straight forward, the people who are afraid of us, the "ruling class" the ones who manufactured this law, let their kids go fight for them! I'll never go again, and if I have any say at all, my kids never will be, ever!
Iornman8
My time in the Marine Corps was overall a positive experience. I also love being a cop. I hope my kids choose safer professions. I wouldn't talk them out of it but I do not push it either.
jklaughrey
06-16-12, 23:05
Iornman8
My time in the Marine Corps was overall a positive experience. I also love being a cop. I hope my kids choose safer professions. I wouldn't talk them out of it but I do not push it either.
I second that. No way are my daughters going to end up in some Moto Plt to be ogled by sex starved 0311's.
I second that. No way are my daughters going to end up in some Moto Plt to be ogled by sex starved 0311's.
And Corpsman!
Iornman8
My time in the Marine Corps was overall a positive experience. I also love being a cop. I hope my kids choose safer professions. I wouldn't talk them out of it but I do not push it either.
Same here. When asked by people whether I'd recommend the Marines, I usually say "Go Air Force!" LOL
Seriously, I'm not the wide eyed kid I was 25 years ago when I joined up. I think a certain amount of global intervention for the benefit of a narrow segment of the population has been around since the US developed the capacity to do so. However, I think it's gone into overdrive in the last 50-60 years. At this point in time, I wouldn't recommend a loved one enter the service. I honestly don't think the lives we're losing today are lost for a good purpose. There will never be an end to bad guys across the globe. By beef is with where we draw the lines of pursuit. Are we defending freedom, or "Democracy"? :(
Littlelebowski
06-18-12, 06:45
Same here. When asked by people whether I'd recommend the Marines, I usually say "Go Air Force!" LOL
Seriously, I'm not the wide eyed kid I was 25 years ago when I joined up. I think a certain amount of global intervention for the benefit of a narrow segment of the population has been around since the US developed the capacity to do so. However, I think it's gone into overdrive in the last 50-60 years. At this point in time, I wouldn't recommend a loved one enter the service. I honestly don't think the lives we're losing today are lost for a good purpose. There will never be an end to bad guys across the globe. By beef is with where we draw the lines of pursuit. Are we defending freedom, or "Democracy"? :(
Welcome to libertarianism.
platoonDaddy
06-18-12, 08:50
DC finest violated their internal policy and more importantly violated the rights of the citizen. How ****ing sad!
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jun/14/dc-cover-up-after-abusing-veteran/
davidjinks
06-18-12, 14:38
I'll answer it like this...
The article(s) stated that EOD/Bombsquad was present.
Anyone know if EOD went right away? Any further word on the call to the hotline?
If the cop thought he had a huge propane IED I could understand a smart ass comment about the constitution. If not that is a big issue. I can see a valid argument/defense of the search under exigent sircumstances, like a propane IED. BUT, the repeated searches are going to be, and should be, a huge issue.
So is it commonly taught to police that a "thought" is as good as actual evidence?
As a police officer how many propane IEDs have you ever run across? Matter of fact, how many incidents in this country occur where propane IEDs are encountered?
Every incident I've been on, except one, (That required EOD to support local PD) has been because the actor was former military or had military ties.
I've been doing this since 1992 and I've never needed to call for EOD. Some if the assumptions and generalizations being made here are not accurate.
Littlelebowski
06-18-12, 15:06
Every incident I've been on, except one, (That required EOD to support local PD) has been because the actor was former military or had military ties.
Wait, because the actor threatened with explosives or simply because the actor was military or maybe EOD?
ffhounddog
06-18-12, 15:57
What the **** is an actor. Is that a person or are they acting? My fiance did get pissed at how DC police were "acting" towards tea party members with miliary hats that she extended her Juristition to include them. She has nothing but bad to say about DC police.
After the charges were dropped May 21, Judge Ryan did not agree to release Sgt. Corrigan’s firearms and ammunition. Mr. Gardiner told the judge that his client is now a resident of Virginia, where registration is not required, and his property should be returned in accordance with D.C. and federal law.
A newly assigned prosecutor filed a brief opposing the return by repeating the discredited gas and booby trap issues. Mr. Gardiner said, “I wrote that the opposition is unethical because he presents facts to a judge that he knows are not true because the assistant attorney general previously filed a notice to the court that withdrew these claims.” The judge has yet to make a final ruling.
This isn't even remotely amusing...
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