Acceptable Accuracy

[eternal24k]

I am interested to hear what most members find to be "acceptable accuracy". When you shoot your AR, what standard do you hold in terms of accuracy to be satisfied?

I should note that I am talking about your "go-to" or "SHTF" rifle, dedicated precision rigs need not apply

[jonconsiglio]

If I'm working with m193, my BCM 14.5" can consistently hold 2.5 to 3 MOA but I've gotten ten shot groups slightly larger than 2 MOA. If I'm running 855, 4 MOA is acceptable. With match grade ammo through any of my CL barrels (10.5", 14.5", 16", 20"), I expect at least 2 MOA.

This all comes down to optics and shooting positions of course. For me, I use either an Aimpoint, usually a T1, sometimes with a magnifier or an ACOF TA31 RCO. I usually shoot from prone though sometimes I use the magazine as a rest on the bench at the range. Any time I think of MOA, I think of ten shot groups.

If any one of those things were to change, I'd imagine my acceptable MOA would as well.

[thopkins22]

Kyle Defoor wrote an excellent blog post called the rule of four. Despite their claims, even accomplished shooters are hard pressed to consistently shoot better than 4 moa without magnification.
http://www.kyledefoor.com/2011/11/reflections-on-accuracy-and-number-4.html

[eternal24k]

Kyle Defoor wrote an excellent blog post called the rule of four. Despite their claims, even accomplished shooters are hard pressed to consistently shoot better than 4 moa without magnification.
http://www.kyledefoor.com/2011/11/reflections-on-accuracy-and-number-4.html

great read.

I am trying to ground myself and my expectations. I am on par with Jon's answer regarding match ammo and 2M0A, and I think 3-4 with M193 is realistic.

I was sighting in my 1-5x on my 10.5" Noveske and was horrified with the spread with Winchester M855, I then got it down to just shy of 2MOA with reloads but I wasn't sure if I should be happy with that.

[d90king]

I'm assuming we are referring to decent ammo etc...

For me 2MOA is where I would like my guns to be with decent ammo. I find with quality ammo I can shrink that a good bit.

[eternal24k]

I'm assuming we are referring to decent ammo etc...

For me 2MOA is where I would like my guns to be with decent ammo. I find with quality ammo I can shrink that a good bit.

yes, decent ammo.

[Pilgrim]

From a rest, or standing?

[eternal24k]

From a rest, or standing?

I was thinking from a rest, but the question leaves it open, whatever you demand from the gun.

[Generalpie]

Minute of man?

I don't remember the last time I shot for groups from a good rest but 3-4 inches with PMC bronze from prone at 100 seems about what I had last time I confirmed the sights. That is with an EOTECH. I don't shoot irons for groups well so we won't even go there. :eek:

[Evil Colt 6920]

1moa for me. If I was asked this a month ago(before I started reloading)my answer would have been 2 or 3 moa.

[danish]

1 MOA for me as well. I was getting a one inch group (100 yards) last week with American Eagle and a BCM middy w/Aimpoint H-1 shooting from a bench. This is what I expect from a bench and nothing more. If I'm shooting off-hand, keeping all shots on an eight inch plate at 100 is more than acceptable.

[a0cake]

The AR-15 has enormous accuracy potential. With a good barrel and good ammunition, 1 MOA is entirely attainable and to be expected. Speaking about mechanical, potential precision, I like to see all my AR's shooting in vicinity of 1 MOA. Can I shoot 1 MOA from any position other than prone, off the bench, or from an improvised supported position? Nope. But when the hardware is out there, why not take advantage?

If I'm out of breath, my heart rate is in the 180's, my eye-pro is fogging up, and I'm being stressed, let's say my own potential for precision opens up to 4 MOA. If I break the trigger at the outside edge of that 4 MOA ring, and my rifle / ammo are capable of 1 MOA, I'm going to miss by a maximum of 5 MOA. If I'm shooting M855 for example, a classic 4 MOA load, I might miss by 8 MOA. No-go.

So saying that most shooters are only capable of 4 MOA and thus 4 MOA is acceptable out of a rifle is false logic. You have to consider error stacking.

You mitigate as much error as possible through training, and then take it down one step further with equipment.

So, my answer is 1 MOA inherent, mechanical potential out of the rifle and ammo.

[Pilgrim]

If I can rest the gun, and I'm using optics, I will accept nothing less than 1ish MOA with consistent ammo at 100-300 yards.

Get out to 400-500 then I'm happy with 2ish MOA.

Standing unsupported 4 MOA is sometimes possible.

When doing the run-n-gun thing, I'm just happy to hear the ping on the steel.

An aftermarket trigger and stock have been factored into what I deem 'acceptable'.

[Sgt_Gold]

I chose 2 MOA. The Army uses 3 MOA as the minimum standard, but over the years I've found that the average M16\M4 is really right around a 2 MOA gun. Match grade ammo can drop this down around 1 MOA, but since we're talking about a go to gun, 2 MOA does it for me.

[SpaceWrangler]

These days (45 years young), I'm happy with minute-of-pie-plate at 100 yards. I have astigmatism in my right eye, so the red dot in my Aimpoint looks like a short-tailed comet. I need a flip-away magnifier.

[uwe1]

The AR-15 has enormous accuracy potential. With a good barrel and good ammunition, 1 MOA is entirely attainable and to be expected. Speaking about mechanical, potential precision, I like to see all my AR's shooting in vicinity of 1 MOA. Can I shoot 1 MOA from any position other than prone, off the bench, or from an improvised supported position? Nope. But when the hardware is out there, why not take advantage?

If I'm out of breath, my heart rate is in the 180's, my eye-pro is fogging up, and I'm being stressed, let's say my own potential for precision opens up to 4 MOA. If I break the trigger at the outside edge of that 4 MOA ring, and my rifle / ammo are capable of 1 MOA, I'm going to miss by a maximum of 5 MOA. If I'm shooting M855 for example, a classic 4 MOA load, I might miss by 8 MOA. No-go.

So saying that most shooters are only capable of 4 MOA and thus 4 MOA is acceptable out of a rifle is false logic. You have to consider error stacking.

You mitigate as much error as possible through training, and then take it down one step further with equipment.

So, my answer is 1 MOA inherent, mechanical potential out of the rifle and ammo.

I agree with you on this which is why I would rather spend extra to get the better barrels from the higher end CL HF makers/assemblers.

It is always good to know that it's you, not the gun.

[Cerberus]

From a bench my ARs must be capable of 1MOA. I wish the rifle to have the capability even if I can not match it with my lack of skills.

[MistWolf]

Offhand, with an RDS or iron sights, with a carbine, I'd be happy with consistently keeping my shots inside 6MOA at 100 yards.

I'm working on it

[pira114]

This thread confused itself. Are we talking what kind of accuracy I'm happy with from my equipment? Or from me?

I have to agree with aOcake on this. You should strive to have equipment that, on it's own, is accurate (among other things).

After that, you do your part knowing that any inaccuracies are most likely shooter induced. Assuming your rig is in good working order.

[Gargoyle]

From a 20" Govt profile Colt Match Target: NM front sight post at 100yds

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc313/Belt_Fed_Red/AR-15SHots.jpg

30 shot string fired after some corrections seen lower right.

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

Did I hit what I was aming at, thats the only goal I ever had.

[wahoo95]

I rarely if ever shoot from a bench anymore so much of my shooting is done on the move or standing/kneeling/prone/etc. I focus on keeping my shots in the "A" Zone and head of the targets I use since those are the only shots that count at the local matches.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[Scoby]

This is the best I can do with my Noveske with 1.5x5 Leupold Mk4. Zeroed at 50yds. 2 MOA shooting off a bipod, prone.

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz229/Scoby/3AmmoChoicesPPU75gr.jpg

Although these pics don't reflect it, I've got it dialed in from 200yds to 400yds and center mass is no problem at these ranges. That's all I care about.

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz229/Scoby/IMG_0897.jpg

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz229/Scoby/NoveskeN415x5.jpg

[viperashes]

If I'm working with m193, my BCM 14.5" can consistently hold 2.5 to 3 MOA but I've gotten ten shot groups slightly larger than 2 MOA. If I'm running 855, 4 MOA is acceptable. With match grade ammo through any of my CL barrels (10.5", 14.5", 16", 20"), I expect at least 2 MOA.

This all comes down to optics and shooting positions of course. For me, I use either an Aimpoint, usually a T1, sometimes with a magnifier or an ACOF TA31 RCO. I usually shoot from prone though sometimes I use the magazine as a rest on the bench at the range. Any time I think of MOA, I think of ten shot groups.

If any one of those things were to change, I'd imagine my acceptable MOA would as well.

JC pretty much sums it up in his first paragraph. With high quality ammo, I'm expecting 1-2MOA on the bench. Real world, with a red dot sight and surplus ammo, 4MOA is acceptable, although I know my rifle is capable of much more than that, even with the Russian crap.

[Iraqgunz]

Gee, I seem to remember this same thread at least a few times. For me, it's pretty simple.

If you are standing down range 0-500M and I put my ACOG cross hairs on your torso and pull the trigger and you fall down then I guess I was pretty accurate.


I am interested to hear what most members find to be "acceptable accuracy". When you shoot your AR, what standard do you hold in terms of accuracy to be satisfied?

I should note that I am talking about your "go-to" or "SHTF" rifle, dedicated precision rigs need not apply

[Locutus]

I know that during my time in the Marine Corps, I was quite happy if I could consistently hit the 12" bullseye at 300 yards.

12"/3(00yards)=4moa

Of course, the rifle and ammo had much better mechanical accuracy than my human performance. I never had a M16 that was less accurate than I am. :D

[Locutus]

Of course, the rifle and ammo had much better mechanical accuracy than my human performance. I never had a M16 that was less accurate than I am. :D


Old Marine Corps saying: It ain't the dope on the rifle; it's the dope behind it.

:p

[nimdabew]

Pistols: Head shots at 25 yards.

Rifles: Head shots at 100 yards, chest shots 200 yards.

[Campbell]

Off hand, RDS, steel case... I'm stoked with 4moa.

[Jack-O]

the way I define it is that the RIFLE should be capable of 2 moa from a bench or rest with match ammo equipped to roll.

With me in the equation it should be capable of 4 MOA from field positions. thus sometimes a more accurate gun doesnt hurt...:rolleyes:

[eternal24k]

Gee, I seem to remember this same thread at least a few times. For me, it's pretty simple.


sorry, i did a couple searches and found nothing

[Surf]

Obviously the more inherent accuracy that the rifle holds the better but dang some of you fellas have some pretty high standards. I think I am a pretty skilled shooter but realistically 2-3 MOA out of standard carbine, non-precision, chrome lined, mil spec, battle type rifle running quality factory ammo is about right. Maybe sub 2 MOA with magnification. 1MOA IMHO is a wonder rifle with these above specs. While they exist as I own one that comes pretty close, they are more of a manufacture anomaly and I rarely see them.

But then again my standards for measuring MOA is pretty darn strict. We should perhaps look closer at the Indian and not so much at the arrow. :)

[arizonaranchman]

Hitting bad guys center of mass is all I'm concerned about. I rarely shoot off a bench other than when sighting in. Once that's done it's real-world shooting positions I'm likely to be using in the field. For me 4 MOA is just fine and in reality hitting a pie plate at all practical ranges with 100% regularity will get the job done. I'm not a sniper and it's highly unlikely I'll need to shoot much beyond 25-50 yards and even more unlikely for it to be even 100 yards. Most gunfights on the street are measured in feet not yards. The majority of my training is at 25 yards or less.

[Basher]

I wanted to vote for 2MOA, but I know that I'm not that good with just irons/RDS, so I said 3MOA. Then I read the link to Kyle Defoor's blog, and figure he's likely correct on his deduction that 4MOA is a good average for practical rifle and pistol accuracy using decent ammo. So somewhere between 3-4MOA is acceptable. Obviously, shrinking that down to 2MOA or lower would be nice, but unless I get Lasik, it's not gonna happen for me. "Minute of man" is acceptable for me, since the competitions I participate in (on a very informal basis) are action based, and the targets are sized accordingly. My SPR is capable of just under 1MOA, though, but it's not a SHTF rifle. :p

[Ash Hess]

I went with 3 MOA for the rifle under the assumption thats with ammo included. 4MOA lets you get hits out to 500 on a man sized target. So the gun being slightly better than me keeps me honest. It doesnt matter to me how the gun gets to that standard, either awesome barrel with crap ammo or crap barrel with awesome ammo. The gun is simply a tool used to exact my will on the target.
Personally, on the flat range, I feel better about me if I get hits with a subpar gun. One would hope that you can get a hit with a sub-MOA free floated, top of the line, perfect twist rate ninja gun

[Casull]

I hunt deer in the desert so a 2 MOA is minimal. I'm not one to enjoy tracking, the bullet needs to go where I send it.

My father hunts with a sub MOA SP-1 carbine. He is a lucky man to own that one. It just came out right.

[BAC]

As accurate as mechanically possible, so that I know it's me and not the gun.


-B

[TangoSauce]

http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k596/TangoSauce/IMG00511-20120209-2253.jpg

http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k596/TangoSauce/IMG00518-20120211-1457.jpg

http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k596/TangoSauce/IMG00516-20120211-1418.jpg

Noveske 18'' SPR shooting 75 grain Prvi BTHP. First 3 shots out of the virgin rifle were MOA with irons, got a little better after building up some carbon. And I'm no sub MOA shooter by any means.

[MegademiC]

I voted 3moa. My rifle with xm193 is 2-3moa.

This is the last time I shot from a bench(rifle on bag) stag model2 w/red dot. 20shot 3.25" group. More accurate than I would need for defensive purposes so I'm ok with it.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh63/vinnyraf870/p_00204.jpg

[SIMBA-LEE]

Accuracy off bench @ 100y utilizing sand bags and AimPoint PRO:
With match ammo (69gr PPU Match) <1 moa
With X-Tac M855 <2moa

Accuracy from prone/sitting with X-Tac, bipod & PRO @ 100y:
<4moa

To get the best accuracy with the PRO I use round, mint-green paper plates as targets, which allows me to center the round red dot more precisely on the target = round dot centered on round target. I also have a SSA trigger installed, which helps.

[SGT D USMC]

I competed in the Oregon National guard during most of the 1980's
We had M 16 A1's (1 in 12" twist) We tested several trying to find sweet ones. We use a colt scope attached to the carry handle and fired M193 ammo (55gr fmj) from a bench at 100yds.

Most shot 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inch 5 shot groups, On occasion we would get a 1" group but the rifle would seldom duplicate it. I think that the A1 with it's 1 in 12 twist was the most accrate of the M16 series with the 55gr m193, the M2's did not seem to group as well with the 55 or 62gr bullet. I don't know about any of the results with 75 and 77gr bullets in the latter m16 series

My own personal results run from 1 to 2 inches with various AR's and my better ones shoot 1 moa or less with 69gr sierria match kings.
my bushmaster preditor has shot .5 to .6 with the 69's almost on demand.
_____________

he went into younder village and never returned